115 | Jared Wicks: LVMPD SAR Officer - How Rescues Work, Red Rock Accidents & 30 Years of Climbing

Jared Wicks has been a rock climber for over 30 years, he is a former SWAT officer, and one of seven full-time commissioned officers on the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Search and Rescue team. Born and raised in Montana, Jared served in the military and spent his off-duty hours climbing at Red Rock—falling so in love with the area that he moved to Las Vegas in 2006 specifically to combine his passion for climbing with a career in law enforcement. After nearly two decades working patrol, firearms instruction, and SWAT, Jared finally landed his dream position on the SAR, where he now responds to rescues across 8,000 square miles of Clark County—from Red Rock Canyon to Mount Charleston to Lake Mead. This episode explores what it takes to be on one of the most unique full-time SAR teams in the country, how helicopter operations actually work, and what happens when 911 gets called from a climbing route. Jared walks through the structure of LVMPD SAR's four specialty teams (lead climb, mountain rescue, dive recovery, and tactical medical support), the qualifications required to even test for the position, and how 40+ volunteers—including world-class 5.14 climbers and SPRAT Level 3 rope access technicians—support the full-time officers. We discuss the death of his mentor Dave Van Buskirk, who fell during a hoist rescue 13 years ago after saving a stranded hiker, and how that tragedy changed rescue protocols across the entire SAR community. Jared breaks down a recent rescue from this past weekend on Dream Safari, what percentage of climbing rescues are preventable versus pure chaos, and how witnessing accidents over the years has fundamentally changed his own approach to risk and gear placement. 

If there's one thing Jared wants you to take away from this conversation, it's that LVMPD SAR is funded by tax dollars—rescues are free. Never hesitate to call 911 if you're in trouble. Jared and his team are ready to come get you.

Topics include: LVMPD SAR team structure, Red Rock Canyon, helicopter rescue operations, 911 communication protocols, volunteer SAR requirements, Dave Van Buskirk's legacy, preventable versus unpreventable accidents, risks, double rack philosophy, how SAR changes your climbing, and why tax dollars—not rescue fees—fund Las Vegas search and rescue operations.

Watch the full episode on Youtube

#searchandrescue #climbingaccident #tradclimbing #climbingsafety

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:04:17
Kyle
You're one of the seven commissioned officers on the Lam, Llvm, PD, SAR team.

00:00:04:21 - 00:00:05:05
Jared
Yes.

00:00:05:08 - 00:00:06:09
Kyle
What's the M like?

00:00:06:09 - 00:00:08:22
Jared
So it's Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department.

00:00:08:29 - 00:00:09:19
Jared
Yeah.

00:00:09:21 - 00:00:14:14
Kyle
Gotcha. Oh, yeah. Walk me through. That actually means, like, what's your role and how is the team

00:00:14:16 - 00:00:15:04
Jared
Yeah, totally.

00:00:15:04 - 00:00:30:15
Jared
So the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, what? A lot of people don't realize. It's actually the sheriff's department for Clark County. So instead of it being like, you know, like LAPD, where it's, you know, I got a police chief and stuff like that. We actually work for an elected official, a sheriff. So we cover all of Clark County.

00:00:30:18 - 00:00:46:19
Jared
So that encompasses things like, you know, the Mount Charleston area, the Spring Mountains, Red Rock, all that kind of stuff to not just the city of Las Vegas. So everything from, like Laughlin down to the south, all the way up to like, Mesquite in the North, Mount Charleston, all of those different areas are literally covered by our agency.

00:00:46:19 - 00:00:57:06
Jared
So we're like, I think one of the top ten largest agencies in the country as far as police agencies go. The search and rescue team is a very small team, within that. Right. So.

00:00:57:09 - 00:00:57:16
Jared
We.

00:00:57:16 - 00:01:11:11
Jared
Have seven full time police officers that are assigned to the team, and then we have a sergeant who's basically he's also a team member. He's a SAR, officer as well. Like, he's capable of doing all the things, that the other officers are. But he kind of has that managerial.

00:01:11:11 - 00:01:12:19
Jared
Role a lot, too.

00:01:12:19 - 00:01:32:26
Jared
But he still goes out on rescues and everything, too. So it's the eight of us that comprise the full time team. And then we have 40 or so volunteers. That kind of help, fill all the different specialty like niche teams that we have. So within Search and Rescue, we break it down into basically like four different groups.

00:01:32:26 - 00:01:50:09
Jared
We have our lead crime team, our mountain rescue team, our dive search and recovery team. And then we have Tems, which is tactical emergency medical support. So we're basically the medics for the Swat team. So out of all of those things, the Tems is what keeps us probably the busiest is our Swat team is a full time team here as well.

00:01:50:09 - 00:02:05:08
Jared
They're very, very busy team. So we we're assisting them with like warrants and barricades and hostage rescues like on a pretty much daily basis. So yeah. So the eight of us are kind of split between handling any calls that come in, whether it's, you know, a call to go support.

00:02:05:08 - 00:02:05:28
Jared
Swat and.

00:02:06:00 - 00:02:24:16
Jared
Call to go find evidence or, you know, help somebody out at Lake Mead in the water, things like that. And then obviously, we have, you know, all the mountains around here where we have mountain rescue, which is probably our second thing that keeps us the busiest and that it's usually like, encompassing, like, like hurt hikers, lost hikers, lost people out in the desert, lost people in the mountains.

00:02:24:16 - 00:02:45:15
Jared
That's what we would consider mountain rescue. Sometimes it does have vertical access type things where, you know, ropes and stuff are involved. If we get people, hikers get lunged out quite a bit. They're not necessarily climbers, but they they wandered or scrambled into places they shouldn't be out in, particularly Red Rock. And then in the summertime, Mount Charleston, to where they found themselves, you know, crap, I need assistance now.

00:02:45:18 - 00:03:06:03
Jared
I can't get down from here, or I might die. Then we can go in there and kind of access them with ropes in lower amount and stuff like that. And then obviously the big one, for like this podcast would be our, our lead climb team. And then that's specifically what it sounds like that's so that we can go in and climb up and access people that are stuck on all the, you know, world class climbing routes that are here in Las Vegas.

00:03:06:06 - 00:03:06:21
Jared
So,

00:03:06:23 - 00:03:08:04
Kyle
What have you tilt your hat back

00:03:08:06 - 00:03:08:19
Jared
Oh, cool.

00:03:08:19 - 00:03:10:10
Jared
I can actually take it off too, if you want.

00:03:10:10 - 00:03:10:17
Jared
Or.

00:03:10:22 - 00:03:12:02
Kyle
We'll be inconsistent that way.

00:03:12:02 - 00:03:17:08
Jared
Oh yeah, totally. How am I now. Okay okay cool.

00:03:17:11 - 00:03:18:13
Jared
I try to keep good posture.

00:03:18:13 - 00:03:19:08
Jared
To.

00:03:19:11 - 00:03:33:03
Kyle
so for, for all of those different skill sets and the diversification of, like, your team, it sounds like you're still all required to have those skills. It's not like you have like okay, these two people are this part of this team.

00:03:33:03 - 00:03:35:29
Kyle
These two people like specialize. It's like everybody's doing everything

00:03:36:06 - 00:03:40:00
Jared
very yeah true. So all of the officers are specifically.

00:03:40:02 - 00:03:40:09
Jared
We.

00:03:40:09 - 00:03:47:11
Jared
Have to know everything, right. We have to be proficient in all of those those four main things, all of us are medics.

00:03:47:13 - 00:03:47:22
Jared
We all.

00:03:47:22 - 00:03:54:10
Jared
Have to have at least an advanced EMT certification or better. We do have paramedics and stuff on the team as well.

00:03:54:12 - 00:04:02:28
Jared
We all have to be proficient in all the ropes. The lead climb is where it gets a little bit more interesting. Not all of us are, per se.

00:04:02:28 - 00:04:04:23
Jared
Like,

00:04:04:25 - 00:04:24:11
Jared
So what I'm looking for here, like avid climbers, everybody climbs, everybody's familiar with the climbing systems. Everybody knows how to place pro. But there's two of us that are actual avid climbers. And then I would say that the other six are proficient in it, but can also access via like fixed lines almost taken on like big wall techniques.

00:04:24:13 - 00:04:42:17
Jared
So that's where especially with our lead climb team, our volunteers. So our volunteers are very specific to teams. Our lead climb team, we have about ten volunteers that are literally world class climbers. We've got, you know, some of those guys or five, 14 climbers. There's guys on the team that are, you know, level three, like Strata or Minutes.

00:04:42:17 - 00:04:54:27
Jared
Spratt and I rata like rope access guys. I mean just world class individuals. So when we do have to access somebody that is in a very challenging location, we do have the resources to do so. If we're not able to.

00:04:54:27 - 00:04:57:07
Jared
Access them via helicopter.

00:04:57:09 - 00:05:09:14
Jared
Which is a whole nother thing because we use the helicopter in pretty much every rescue that we can, especially the ones that are very life threatening just for access issues. So, yeah. So the volunteers are and we couldn't do without them for sure.

00:05:09:18 - 00:05:09:26
Jared
Right.

00:05:09:26 - 00:05:15:23
Jared
But yeah, as far as your question, all of all of us are very proficient in all of the different.

00:05:15:26 - 00:05:28:27
Jared
Teams that we have and all the different skill sets that we need to have for us. So that's why it's, it's a hard unit to get to. And you do have to have a lot of certifications before you can even test and be eligible to come to the team. So it's a very challenging position to get on the department, for sure.

00:05:29:03 - 00:05:36:13
Kyle
So talk to me about your your progression into the role that you have now. What's your history like. How have you acquired the skill sets to be where you are right now.

00:05:36:18 - 00:05:37:19
Jared
So.

00:05:37:22 - 00:05:40:15
Jared
That story goes back a long time actually.

00:05:40:17 - 00:05:40:28
Jared
So I mean.

00:05:40:28 - 00:05:45:11
Jared
As far as the climbing is concerned, like I was saying earlier, I, I've started climbing.

00:05:45:13 - 00:05:45:20
Jared
In the.

00:05:45:20 - 00:06:00:08
Jared
90s, so like 30 plus years of climbing. So that's just always been kind of like a big passion of mine. Early on, my dad was a police officer, so, I mean, I knew from probably when I was a teenager that I wanted to be a police officer someday. So.

00:06:00:10 - 00:06:00:16
Jared
You know, I.

00:06:00:16 - 00:06:15:12
Jared
Was born and raised in Montana, right out of high school. I went into the military, and while I was in the military, I used to come out to Red Rock all the time to go climbing, like, I was like, this place is amazing. I, you know, and as I was getting towards the end of that career, I decided, you know what that would.

00:06:15:12 - 00:06:16:11
Jared
Be a Las Vegas would.

00:06:16:11 - 00:06:22:05
Jared
Be a cool place to be a police officer. So climbing was like my catalyst for moving here and choosing this place.

00:06:22:05 - 00:06:23:24
Jared
And then, it was.

00:06:23:24 - 00:06:42:09
Jared
Almost like the job was was kind of secondary at first. And then I moved here, got hired on with the police department, back in 2000, January of 2006, a little over 20 years ago. And, I've been here ever since. So. Yeah. So to be a part of our search and rescue team, you have to be, as of now, like current today.

00:06:42:16 - 00:06:42:23
Jared
You have to.

00:06:42:23 - 00:06:50:06
Jared
Be a police officer for at least two years. Back then, I think you had to have about, like, five years on. So they've changed, like,

00:06:50:12 - 00:06:53:10
Kyle
Do you have to be a police officer in Las Vegas for two

00:06:53:12 - 00:06:53:23
Jared
with.

00:06:53:23 - 00:07:14:14
Jared
Our agency, correct? Yeah. You have to be a police officer with Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department for at least two years. Once you've satisfied that as long as you have certain medical certifications and dive certifications and a few other things, you're eligible to test for the position. So specifically to me, I started out my career like everybody else, you know, as a police officer in a black and white patrol car handling calls.

00:07:14:14 - 00:07:21:26
Jared
I primarily work the southwest part of town, and I also spent a short time in, like the northeast part of town, working patrol.

00:07:21:28 - 00:07:22:11
Jared
And then.

00:07:22:11 - 00:07:38:12
Jared
Early on, I actually got the opportunity to go to our, our firearms range and teach, all the new academies and stuff. How to shoot. It was just something off from the military that was, you know, pretty good at. And I enjoyed teaching and stuff, too. So I left patrol.

00:07:38:14 - 00:07:39:03
Jared
And while I was.

00:07:39:03 - 00:07:47:21
Jared
There, I met, an officer named Dave Van Buskirk. He was also a firearms instructor, and he was actually, one of the full time members of our search and rescue team.

00:07:47:23 - 00:07:50:01
Jared
And I didn't know a whole lot about it.

00:07:50:03 - 00:07:59:20
Jared
I started talking with Dave. They found out I was a climber, and and Dave kind of became my mentor with another guy named Jason. That was Dave's partner. Jason has since retired.

00:07:59:22 - 00:08:00:00
Jared
So.

00:08:00:00 - 00:08:17:19
Jared
Those two kind of started chatting me up, and I started coming along and helping them almost as what we call like a role player. I would come out with, some local climbers and that were some of those volunteers I was talking about earlier, and we would go climb up on a route and pretend to get stuck or injured, and then they would have to come rescue us, you know, get us off the wall and fly us out.

00:08:17:21 - 00:08:24:21
Jared
So, yeah. So then I became eligible to test while I was working at the firearms range, back in the day, and.

00:08:24:23 - 00:08:32:06
Jared
It didn't work out for first of all, they didn't have any openings. Once people get to this team, they generally don't leave.

00:08:32:09 - 00:08:42:24
Jared
Very rarely people will promote or, you know, retire is what usually, for example, the position. The reason I'm here now is because somebody retired and I was able to take their spot. But that's much later.

00:08:42:27 - 00:08:48:19
Jared
But yeah. So Dave and Jason kind of talked me into it. I tested by honestly, quickly realized that I wasn't ready yet.

00:08:48:21 - 00:08:49:19
Jared
I, I.

00:08:49:21 - 00:09:01:17
Jared
I think at that point in my career, it was very early on. It was probably 2011 or 12. I just don't think I had the life experience. And a lot of the, the medical experience that I needed to be like an asset to this team.

00:09:01:17 - 00:09:02:28
Jared
I think.

00:09:03:00 - 00:09:13:21
Jared
So some other opportunities presented themselves. Eventually I worked in a couple other different units, and then I found myself on the Swat team. So I ended up working on the Swat team for several years.

00:09:13:23 - 00:09:14:13
Jared
And then while.

00:09:14:13 - 00:09:16:09
Jared
There.

00:09:16:11 - 00:09:16:20
Jared
A little.

00:09:16:20 - 00:09:23:26
Jared
Over a year ago, I just, you know, I said, you know what? Now's the time. I've got all my medical certs, I've got all my dive certs.

00:09:23:29 - 00:09:35:15
Jared
I've got some good life experience. I've got a lot of good climbing experience, even more than I did back then. I think it's a good time to test. And, so I ended up testing. It ended up going pretty well for me. And and here I am now.

00:09:35:15 - 00:09:36:09
Jared
You know, we.

00:09:36:11 - 00:09:41:17
Jared
Had a great man retire, and I was able to to take his, his position when he left. So yes.

00:09:41:18 - 00:09:41:21
Jared
It

00:09:41:21 - 00:09:45:23
Kyle
does it look like? When, when a spot opens up, how many people are competing for the same spot?

00:09:45:29 - 00:09:46:06
Jared
Yeah.

00:09:46:06 - 00:09:48:04
Jared
It varies per unit.

00:09:48:07 - 00:09:48:16
Jared
Again.

00:09:48:16 - 00:09:53:17
Jared
Because search and rescue so specialized, you would think that a lot of people would put on put in for.

00:09:53:17 - 00:09:54:27
Jared
It though. A lot of people.

00:09:54:27 - 00:10:07:00
Jared
Want to put in for it. But the issue is, is that lot of people don't have the certifications for it, right? Because most police officers don't run around with a lot of medical certs. Most police officers don't have like dive certs and stuff like that too. There's plenty out there that do.

00:10:07:02 - 00:10:07:20
Jared
So you have to.

00:10:07:20 - 00:10:13:06
Jared
Have that like perfect combination of people that not only have those certifications, but then also have the drive to.

00:10:13:06 - 00:10:14:18
Jared
Want to like go fly.

00:10:14:18 - 00:10:17:14
Jared
Around in a helicopter all the time, which who doesn't want to do that.

00:10:17:16 - 00:10:20:02
Jared
You know, but it's it's a big ask.

00:10:20:02 - 00:10:28:05
Jared
It's a very specialized unit. It takes a very specialized person with the right aptitude, but also and probably more importantly, like the right attitude.

00:10:28:07 - 00:10:28:27
Jared
And I think.

00:10:28:27 - 00:10:46:01
Jared
Because of that, it kind of, I don't want to say scares people away, but it definitely gives people pause. So we're, we're doing, the best we can for like a lot of recruiting and stuff like that. Right now, we've got about ten candidates lined up for the next testing that we have coming up. But yeah, at the time that I tested, I think we had three officers that were eligible to put in.

00:10:46:04 - 00:10:46:18
Jared
Yeah.

00:10:46:18 - 00:11:02:18
Jared
And then we always have to test for sergeant's test. We have one, one additional candidate for sergeant as well. But that's, that, that only sergeants can test for a sergeant position. So. Yeah. So it just depends on the year and depends on eligibility. So it can be anywhere from, you know, a few. I remember the first time I test probably.

00:11:02:18 - 00:11:19:06
Jared
And I think like I said, it's 2012 or 13 somewhere in that time frame, I think there was about ten of us that put in there too. And I don't think they took anybody off of that list. And then I think the the year after that, when I didn't test, they ended up did take did take some, some officers and they're still on the team today.

00:11:19:12 - 00:11:42:24
Kyle
Yeah. Now what about the volunteer capacity. So, for anybody interested in like, getting involved in SAR, whether it's based around Las Vegas or in their local community, like what are different avenues that people can kind of, like, pursue, be getting involved in search and rescue? I would imagine that this, this kind of paid career that you're in now is pretty specialized to Las Vegas in a way.

00:11:42:27 - 00:11:49:04
Kyle
Like there's not a lot of them around the states that I'm aware of. I think a lot of them operate on volunteer only

00:11:49:06 - 00:11:50:12
Jared
Correct. Yeah, yeah.

00:11:50:12 - 00:11:51:20
Jared
We are a very.

00:11:51:20 - 00:11:54:20
Jared
Unique team in that aspect.

00:11:54:22 - 00:12:02:10
Jared
As far as being like full time officers assigned to it, there is there is definitely other agencies, across the country that do have a similar setup.

00:12:02:12 - 00:12:02:27
Jared
But we.

00:12:02:27 - 00:12:19:20
Jared
We definitely are unique. And a lot of that has to do with because of the fact that we are, you know, a sheriff's department and our sheriff does have the helicopters and stuff like that. Our, our, our agency does. So that's, you know, back in, I think it was in the late 60s, early 70s is when, it was actually written into the Nevada Revised Statutes, like our laws.

00:12:19:23 - 00:12:20:02
Jared
That.

00:12:20:02 - 00:12:21:01
Jared
Our sheriff's department.

00:12:21:01 - 00:12:23:04
Jared
Will handle all rural.

00:12:23:06 - 00:12:32:15
Jared
Search and rescue operations. And then that leaves the fire department to handle everything that's in the city and like, all the urban ones. So. But as far as our volunteers are concerned.

00:12:32:18 - 00:12:33:13
Jared
Yeah, it's a.

00:12:33:13 - 00:12:50:02
Jared
Lot of that comes down to word of mouth. So we've had volunteers pretty much from the beginning, and we've got some volunteers still on the team today that have been on 20 plus years as volunteers. And these are just phenomenal human beings that are out there in the community. A lot of them. We have several doctors, lots.

00:12:50:03 - 00:13:06:09
Jared
We have several firefighters, that are both county firefighters, city firefighters and Henderson firefighters that are all part of our volunteer cadre for the different teams. The climbers specifically. That's definitely kind of a recommendation type thing. Most of our climber volunteers are.

00:13:06:09 - 00:13:07:14
Jared
All, you know, people.

00:13:07:15 - 00:13:28:05
Jared
Like, we've got guys on our team that are literally some of the original guys. When you read the guidebook, you'll see their name right next to the area cities. You know, there's some of those guys are still on our team as volunteers today. So imagine how much knowledge they bring to the table. Right? So those those are the type of people that will recommend, like, hey, we've got this guy that we think would be a great asset to the team and then we bring them in.

00:13:28:06 - 00:13:32:06
Jared
I let them come and kind of experience some of our training, see if they.

00:13:32:09 - 00:13:32:24
Jared
If we'd be a.

00:13:32:24 - 00:13:46:27
Jared
Good fit for them and if they'd be a good fit for us. And more often than not, they are we do sometimes, you know, like I said, some of us are climbers. We'll run into people at the climbing gym, get to chatting with them and kind of talk about, you know, the search and rescue team.

00:13:46:27 - 00:13:54:10
Jared
And next thing you know, they're they're they're interested and they want to come check it out. So a lot of it kind of comes through word of mouth and recruiting like that.

00:13:54:12 - 00:14:01:07
Jared
The other different specific ones, especially like our tactical medicine program, that one is there's a very core community of that.

00:14:01:09 - 00:14:02:03
Jared
We got a.

00:14:02:03 - 00:14:09:03
Jared
Lot of that is made up of local doctors. We've got several anesthesiologists, several paramedics from the fire department.

00:14:09:06 - 00:14:09:20
Jared
One.

00:14:09:20 - 00:14:11:02
Jared
Nurse.

00:14:11:04 - 00:14:12:04
Jared
And then, like a.

00:14:12:07 - 00:14:27:17
Jared
Trauma, two trauma surgeons and one brain surgeon there. All there are support for our volunteers for that. So every time our Swat team goes out, they're getting one of us as a medic and then typically a doctor coming with us to. And again, they'll recommend other doctors. And it's kind of all word of mouth with that.

00:14:27:19 - 00:14:27:25
Jared
I was.

00:14:27:25 - 00:14:34:22
Jared
Actually just chatting with, a young gentleman that I know from, from mountain bike racing earlier today, and he was asking the very same question.

00:14:34:22 - 00:14:36:09
Jared
He's like, hey, like I, you know.

00:14:36:09 - 00:14:42:09
Jared
Search and rescue seems awesome. Like, how can I do that someday? And the best thing I told him is get prepared.

00:14:42:09 - 00:14:42:19
Jared
Right.

00:14:42:19 - 00:14:44:17
Jared
Like get some training.

00:14:44:20 - 00:14:45:04
Jared
For what.

00:14:45:04 - 00:14:51:29
Jared
We really are looking for in candidates that want to be volunteers is knowledge, right? Having something to bring to the table?

00:14:52:01 - 00:14:54:09
Jared
You know, it. You could be like.

00:14:54:09 - 00:15:02:02
Jared
The nicest person in the world, but it's so hard to get somebody spun up on a lot of the specialized techniques that are needed for, you know, mountain rescue or lead climb rescue.

00:15:02:02 - 00:15:03:27
Jared
So go out and take classes.

00:15:03:27 - 00:15:25:02
Jared
There's so many different organizations out there. A lot of the training companies that we use, you know, like rigging for rescue, CMC, things like that, that do a ton of good schools are available to the public. There's a lot of good guide services out there, like the Amiga and stuff like that, that can really teach you a lot of knowledge that can prepare you not only as like just a good all around mountain person or a climber or just, you know, end user of the mountains.

00:15:25:02 - 00:15:37:22
Jared
But it also makes you a valuable asset if you are interested in search and rescue. And then pretty much one of the other things that's, I think, really important is to have some sort of medical, training, whether that's, you know, an EMT.

00:15:37:24 - 00:15:38:02
Jared
Or.

00:15:38:02 - 00:15:55:09
Jared
Like Wilderness First Aid, you know, or first responder type things like the wolf or, and stuff like that. There's a lot of good training out there that again, it's it's, you know, serves two purposes. It makes you better when you're in the mountains. But then again, if search and rescue is something you're interested in again, makes you more valuable, something more that you can bring to the table.

00:15:55:09 - 00:15:57:23
Jared
Because most calls that we run.

00:15:57:26 - 00:15:58:05
Jared
When it.

00:15:58:05 - 00:15:59:24
Jared
Comes to a rescue, they're going to have.

00:15:59:24 - 00:16:01:20
Jared
A medical aspect to them, right?

00:16:01:24 - 00:16:10:00
Jared
So so all of those things, as far as people that are interested in volunteering are going to be crucial, is having just like that background in it, some training.

00:16:10:02 - 00:16:11:03
Jared
And then again, the.

00:16:11:03 - 00:16:18:08
Jared
Attitude is everything because it's it's a big team. We're out there were one big team, you know, trying to achieve one goal. And that usually means like saving.

00:16:18:08 - 00:16:19:26
Jared
A life or helping.

00:16:19:26 - 00:16:26:02
Jared
Somebody that's lost and stranded and having one of the worst days of their life. So we need to bring like, super good human beings out there to do that.

00:16:26:04 - 00:16:50:18
Kyle
Yeah, I think that's I think the word volunteer can almost carry like this sense of I don't know, lack of professionalism or a lack of like, skill sets or I don't know exactly how to to word that, but it seems like the like you said, the volunteers that are a part of this team where we're talking like doctors and brain surgeons, like people who have a wild depth of experience to the point where you would imagine these roles are paid.

00:16:50:25 - 00:17:07:17
Kyle
And I think that, like when I started diving into this whole search and rescue thing, I spoke to Dean Ross. Now he was a search, volunteer search and rescue for the Eastern Sierra for like 30 years. And, I mean, the guy did work that, you know, you would hope someone would get paid a six figure salary for.

00:17:07:20 - 00:17:09:18
Kyle
And like this is same thing with these volunteers.

00:17:09:18 - 00:17:17:19
Kyle
Like these are super high quality, very, skilled people that are just dedicating and donating their time and their,

00:17:17:21 - 00:17:20:20
Jared
100% agree with you. And I know what you mean too, by like the.

00:17:20:26 - 00:17:24:01
Jared
It's almost like that, like part time or, you know, almost.

00:17:24:02 - 00:17:26:04
Jared
It almost makes you feel like you're kind of like an interloper.

00:17:26:04 - 00:17:27:27
Jared
Like you like it's just a volunteer.

00:17:27:27 - 00:17:28:26
Jared
You're not the real thing.

00:17:28:26 - 00:17:31:14
Jared
Right? But yeah, but it couldn't be any.

00:17:31:14 - 00:17:37:16
Jared
More further than the truth. And I said that earlier, I don't we simply could not do our job without our volunteers.

00:17:37:19 - 00:17:41:08
Jared
And and we make sure they know that. Right. Like I was just.

00:17:41:11 - 00:17:54:14
Jared
Out on a climb the other day or on a rescue the other day with some of our volunteers. And I literally looked over at the guy and I said to him, I'm like, it just blows me away that you're out here donating your time at such a high level of what you're capable.

00:17:54:14 - 00:17:55:14
Jared
Of doing, and.

00:17:55:14 - 00:17:59:12
Jared
You're doing this because you you want to help people and out of just the goodness of your heart.

00:17:59:18 - 00:18:00:29
Jared
You literally get nothing.

00:18:00:29 - 00:18:16:01
Jared
For it other than just the satisfaction that you're out here and able to help a human. So in my mind, that makes them the actual professionals, right? Like they're doing it for like, all the right reasons. Not that we aren't, we are just lucky enough to be in a position where we get to do it as our full time job.

00:18:16:08 - 00:18:17:09
Jared
But these, these.

00:18:17:09 - 00:18:19:29
Jared
People that we have, both guys and gals are out here doing.

00:18:19:29 - 00:18:20:27
Jared
It with their.

00:18:20:27 - 00:18:24:17
Jared
Heart like that's, you know, I mean, like that in my opinion, puts them at a level.

00:18:24:17 - 00:18:25:29
Jared
Above us. So,

00:18:26:02 - 00:18:31:02
Kyle
yeah. What's that one famous story about the divers that rescued those kids in the Polynesian

00:18:31:05 - 00:18:32:17
Jared
Oh yeah. Totally.

00:18:32:17 - 00:18:37:14
Kyle
I watched that movie, and, yeah, I mean, it's like these guys are just recreational divers.

00:18:37:17 - 00:18:47:28
Kyle
And they were. They were the ones that were the ones that were going to be able to pull it off more than the Navy divers, more than the Seals, like these specialized cave divers who do it recreationally, were the ones that were able to

00:18:48:00 - 00:18:48:27
Jared
100%.

00:18:49:01 - 00:18:57:12
Jared
Yeah. And they literally put their lives at risk. Like that was heinous. Like what they had to do to get them through that situation was unbelievable. That documentary.

00:18:57:15 - 00:18:59:08
Jared
Was insane.

00:18:59:08 - 00:19:07:01
Jared
But it that just goes to show like that's the caliber of people that we have, right. And there's people like that all over the world. And that's such an awesome thing to see.

00:19:07:04 - 00:19:16:19
Kyle
is. Yeah, it's really cool that I think it's a breath of fresh air to know that people of that caliber and of that skill set are just donating their time for the better

00:19:16:22 - 00:19:18:02
Jared
Right. Yeah, definitely.

00:19:18:09 - 00:19:35:27
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00:20:30:25 - 00:20:50:12
Kyle
I would imagine, like, people assume like helicopters are the most dangerous part of the SA experience. We hear a lot of I've, I've heard lots of, like, bad things happening in helicopters, like them falling out of the sky, crashes, people dying. Is that like a reality or is that kind of, like, blown up out of proportion?

00:20:50:14 - 00:20:52:26
Kyle
Like, how risky do you guys feel when you're airborne?

00:20:52:28 - 00:21:03:03
Jared
So I'm going to be kind of biased here. And shame on me for not mentioning this earlier, because it's probably one of the most important parts of our team and our teammates is our pilots.

00:21:03:06 - 00:21:03:23
Jared
And I don't think a.

00:21:03:23 - 00:21:15:27
Jared
Lot of people understand this, but all of our pilots are police officers, just like all of our search and rescue officers are police officers. Every one of those pilots started just like I did as a patrol officer out there on the streets and then took a passion.

00:21:15:27 - 00:21:17:01
Jared
And in all.

00:21:17:01 - 00:21:22:09
Jared
Cases went out and paid the money to get their own pilot's license. Just to be eligible to test for that.

00:21:22:12 - 00:21:24:00
Kyle
these are not like ex-military people.

00:21:24:04 - 00:21:38:05
Jared
We do have some. Sure we have some. We have a pilot right now that is also in the Army National Guard as a pilot. But a lot of them I would say probably a majority of them had no prior pilot experience, from the military.

00:21:38:07 - 00:21:39:12
Jared
You know.

00:21:39:15 - 00:21:51:04
Jared
Mostly in the private sector. I think we have had a few over the years, actually. I know we have had a few over the years. But currently most of them are, you know, just police officers that just wanted to fly. And they are the best.

00:21:51:08 - 00:21:52:04
Jared
I mean, and.

00:21:52:04 - 00:22:26:11
Jared
And I'm not just saying that because they're ours. I mean, they're they're well known for their skills in those helicopters. So where I'm going with that is I do believe that, yes, helicopter operations are very risky. Some of the places that we have to access, can be very, very dangerous for those helicopter pilots, but they are so skilled that when we're in those helicopters, sometimes it seems like you're in the safest place you could possibly be because they're so steady, they're so calm or so collective when we're talking to them on the radio, you know, within the in the helicopter, when we're on the ground, there's so professional and the things that they're

00:22:26:11 - 00:22:30:04
Jared
able to do in those, sometimes you forget how dangerous it can actually.

00:22:30:04 - 00:22:33:07
Jared
Be to say that it's the most.

00:22:33:07 - 00:22:34:14
Jared
Dangerous part of search and.

00:22:34:14 - 00:22:38:09
Jared
Rescue. I don't, I don't know if.

00:22:38:11 - 00:22:43:27
Jared
If I could say that. Is it a dangerous part? Can it be? Absolutely.

00:22:44:00 - 00:22:58:17
Jared
But I would think that some of the other stuff that we have to do once we've made contact, especially on like the climbing side of things when we're, you know, six, seven, sometimes 800ft off the ground or even more because red rocks got some massive walls out there. There's a lot going on there, a lot of moving parts.

00:22:58:21 - 00:23:00:17
Jared
You know, we definitely have to be on our game.

00:23:00:17 - 00:23:03:18
Jared
So just in general,

00:23:03:20 - 00:23:09:24
Jared
I think there's there's a lot of different aspects of it, but through training, through reps, through rehearsals.

00:23:09:26 - 00:23:10:25
Jared
You know.

00:23:10:27 - 00:23:12:05
Jared
Both the pilots and us.

00:23:12:05 - 00:23:14:01
Jared
We get good at what we do and we have a.

00:23:14:01 - 00:23:15:17
Jared
Lot of checks and balances in place.

00:23:15:17 - 00:23:16:02
Jared
We have a.

00:23:16:02 - 00:23:18:16
Jared
Lot of different safety protocols and stuff in place.

00:23:18:16 - 00:23:19:17
Jared
So we do.

00:23:19:17 - 00:23:20:20
Jared
Everything that we can to mitigate.

00:23:20:20 - 00:23:23:14
Jared
That risk. But at the end of the day, we're willing to.

00:23:23:14 - 00:23:27:17
Jared
To take as is much necessary risk that needs to be taken in order to save.

00:23:27:17 - 00:23:27:27
Jared
Lives.

00:23:27:27 - 00:23:41:09
Jared
So but there is times, though, if we can't access it with a helicopter, we simply can't. And I mean, that happened just this weekend, where unfortunately, some climbers had to spend the night. Two separate parties had to spend the night on different climbs because the winds and stuff were so.

00:23:41:09 - 00:23:42:13
Jared
Bad that.

00:23:42:13 - 00:23:54:16
Jared
Our pilots made the decision, the right decision, that because they weren't in critical danger or anything like that. Hey guys, sorry, but be prepared to spend the night tonight and we'll be back in the morning for you. So those things do come.

00:23:54:18 - 00:23:55:21
Jared
Into play, but.

00:23:55:21 - 00:23:57:00
Jared
Everything that we can possibly do to.

00:23:57:00 - 00:23:58:14
Jared
Mitigate that, to make it the.

00:23:58:14 - 00:24:00:19
Jared
Helicopter operations as safe as possible.

00:24:00:19 - 00:24:02:02
Jared
We do so because.

00:24:02:02 - 00:24:06:04
Jared
We can always access on the ground if we have to. It's just going to take longer most of the time.

00:24:06:04 - 00:24:08:29
Jared
So but yeah, yeah, it can be dangerous.

00:24:08:29 - 00:24:16:00
Jared
But again, like I said, we do everything we can to evade the pilots. You know they're they're wizards in those things. What they do is just simply magic.

00:24:16:00 - 00:24:17:04
Jared
So yeah it is.

00:24:17:04 - 00:24:18:02
Jared
It's pretty neat.

00:24:18:04 - 00:24:21:03
Kyle
How about gathering information about the rescues you're heading out to?

00:24:21:03 - 00:24:24:12
Kyle
Like, is it solely based on the person who's making the call?

00:24:24:14 - 00:24:29:22
Kyle
how are you gathering that information to properly facilitate, like, logistics?

00:24:29:25 - 00:24:35:14
Kyle
And how can we, as people who might be involved in a rescue better communicate with you guys to help you with your job?

00:24:35:18 - 00:24:36:03
Jared
So I think what.

00:24:36:03 - 00:24:41:11
Jared
They think the latter part of your your question there is probably the most important. That's what I'll start with.

00:24:41:14 - 00:24:42:00
Jared
We always.

00:24:42:00 - 00:24:44:28
Jared
Get information from somebody that we would call a person reporting or a.

00:24:44:28 - 00:24:45:28
Jared
PR, right.

00:24:45:28 - 00:25:02:27
Jared
Whether that's a passer by that heard someone screaming for help or it's the involved party, the actual climber, the hiker, whomever it may be. The big thing for us, though, is it depends, right? It depends on your cell service. It depends on if you even have cell service. It depends on if you have a PLB or a personal locator beacon, right.

00:25:02:27 - 00:25:08:08
Jared
Which are all things that you should definitely be taking with you into the backcountry. And when I say backcountry, I mean red rock.

00:25:08:08 - 00:25:09:12
Jared
Like, I know you.

00:25:09:12 - 00:25:12:09
Jared
Can see the city from there, but that doesn't mean your cell phone is going to make it.

00:25:12:09 - 00:25:14:01
Jared
Out. You know what I mean?

00:25:14:03 - 00:25:21:19
Jared
And we get a lot of people that go unprepared into the mountains. So before, like, you know, we can talk later about avoiding rescue altogether.

00:25:21:22 - 00:25:22:19
Jared
But once.

00:25:22:19 - 00:25:24:04
Jared
The rescue situation has.

00:25:24:04 - 00:25:26:02
Jared
Come, you know, has.

00:25:26:02 - 00:25:34:00
Jared
Come about like somebody, you know, has to be rescued because rescued because of whatever circumstances. Generally we get our initial call from.

00:25:34:02 - 00:25:34:20
Jared
Them.

00:25:34:20 - 00:25:37:00
Jared
Or somebody that's missing them.

00:25:37:02 - 00:25:42:00
Jared
So what we really want to educate people on is that the way to.

00:25:42:00 - 00:25:48:07
Jared
Get rescued in Clark County, Nevada. So in the Las Vegas and surrounding area is to call 911.

00:25:48:10 - 00:25:51:16
Jared
More often than not, we we have a,

00:25:51:18 - 00:26:10:00
Jared
A local search and rescue volunteer team here. It's called Red Rock Search and Rescue. So we get a lot of climbers or people from out of town because, you know, it's a big tourist destination. And the first thing they do when they get stuck is what we all do. We pull out our phones and we Google search and rescue, and a lot of times what will come right up is going to be, that group of individuals, and they're awesome.

00:26:10:01 - 00:26:28:22
Jared
Don't get me wrong, amazing human beings are all volunteers. They're a mountain Rescue Association accredited team, but their their job is ground searches. Anything that involves any sort of technical rescue, anything like that that needs to go through us. So why I bring that up is, yes, they are super valuable and we definitely work with them sometimes for bigger searches.

00:26:28:24 - 00:26:47:10
Jared
But if you're stuck and you're in trouble and it's an emergency, you need to call 901 because then you're skipping a step. If you call the Red Rock Search and Rescue, they do an amazing job of immediately routing it to us. But then the first thing that we do, if you're the person that's calling, is, I'm going to call you back and say, hey, this might sound silly, but I need you to call 911 right now on your phone.

00:26:47:13 - 00:27:03:23
Jared
And the reason we do that is because when you call our 911 dispatch center, you automatically are going to drop your coordinates to the dispatcher. So they're going to know exactly where you are. So that's like the first thing we need to know right away is where are you? You could think that you're on, you know, Mountain y, but you're actually on mountain X.

00:27:03:23 - 00:27:08:11
Jared
You know what I mean? So the first thing we need people to do is just stay calm.

00:27:08:14 - 00:27:10:03
Jared
Take a second and call 911.

00:27:10:10 - 00:27:15:11
Jared
The dispatcher is going to ask you as many questions as possible. If you don't have enough cell service to.

00:27:15:17 - 00:27:20:04
Jared
Call 911, you can text 911. The cool thing about like, cell.

00:27:20:04 - 00:27:37:23
Jared
Phones these days too, is a lot of them now have like, GPS texting and SOS texting and stuff like that. And again, you can literally just connect to a satellite text 911. You'll get routed to our dispatch center. And then they're going to start texting back with you and getting as much information as possible. And then that immediately gets routed to my sergeant that I spoke about earlier.

00:27:37:26 - 00:27:52:24
Jared
So once my sergeant gets that information, he usually will then turn around and make contact with that person that's calling in, whether it's the involved party or the person that you know, as a passer by and reported it, he's going to ask as many questions as he possibly can to make sure that we have all the information we need.

00:27:52:24 - 00:27:59:22
Jared
I mean, he's going to get very, very granular. I mean, all the way down to how much, you know, battery that you have left on your phone.

00:27:59:25 - 00:28:00:08
Jared
How much food.

00:28:00:08 - 00:28:16:23
Jared
And water do you have, how much clothing do you have? You know, all those things. More importantly, like what's your injuries? What's the situation? As much detail as possible. Exactly. Where are you? You know, when it comes to climbing specifically like what router you on, what pitch are you on? Where on the pitch are you like what exactly happened?

00:28:16:23 - 00:28:41:08
Jared
How many ropes do you have? Like what kind of equipment? What's your experience and stuff? Is there anybody else around you that you can ask for help? I mean, they're going to ask all of those questions when we can. We have several places in Red Rock where you will not have cell service, and we get rescues all the time for people that are popping like beacons with like either like a Garmin inReach or, you know, like the spot device and stuff like that, those sometimes can take just a little bit longer.

00:28:41:08 - 00:28:56:09
Jared
They go to kind of like a national center, and then it gets kind of routed to us, but eventually it will get to us and when I say eventually, I mean within a few minutes we usually get it. But those ones are a lot harder for us to get information. It's, it's a lot lengthier of a text communication that's going to go through those devices.

00:28:56:09 - 00:29:16:08
Jared
But do your best to just, you know, stick with it. Try to keep sending out as many messages as you can to the dispatch center over those Garmin and reaches and those types of devices, and they'll be asking the same questions and trying to get that information to us as well. Another thing that we do a lot, too, is we'll oftentimes ask people if they're carrying like walkie talkies or similar devices like that.

00:29:16:10 - 00:29:16:25
Jared
And we'll ask them.

00:29:16:25 - 00:29:17:10
Jared
Hey, what channel.

00:29:17:10 - 00:29:19:10
Jared
Are you on? That way, as soon as we get flown.

00:29:19:10 - 00:29:27:12
Jared
In or hike in, we'll come up on that same channel. So when you're up on the wall, we can start talking to you as soon as we're within radio range of you. If we don't have cell phone.

00:29:27:14 - 00:29:31:00
Jared
More often than not. No, most of the time you will.

00:29:31:00 - 00:29:36:00
Jared
Have cell service. So the big thing is, is try to conserve battery. If you've got two people in your party.

00:29:36:00 - 00:29:36:22
Jared
Maybe put one.

00:29:36:22 - 00:29:42:08
Jared
Phone off or an airplane mode to save battery. We will recommend that to people a lot.

00:29:42:08 - 00:29:43:17
Jared
That way, you know we can.

00:29:43:17 - 00:29:44:11
Jared
Keep checking in with.

00:29:44:11 - 00:29:45:22
Jared
You. So what typically.

00:29:45:22 - 00:29:57:24
Jared
Happens is once our sergeant gets the information, he relays that he'll dispatch a few of us. We'll start rounding up some volunteers if we need them, and then we'll start heading your way. Me personally, I usually like to call the people and just say, you know, tell them, hey, I'm Jared, I'm.

00:29:57:24 - 00:30:00:01
Jared
I'm on my way to help you. Tell me more.

00:30:00:01 - 00:30:16:25
Jared
I know you've already asked me this certain questions, but it kind of puts people I feel like at ease when we're able to to talk to them. And kind of they don't give them a name of, like, who's coming to help them and give them a voice to talk to it. It can help with morale and it can kind of calm the situation down.

00:30:16:25 - 00:30:24:24
Jared
And then that gives me the opportunity to kind of get even more information. I can get very specific to like specific, you know what I'm coming out there to assist you with.

00:30:24:24 - 00:30:26:04
Jared
So we do everything.

00:30:26:04 - 00:30:29:21
Jared
That we possibly can. Best case scenario, right. Cell phone. We can.

00:30:29:21 - 00:30:30:26
Jared
Talk. If you don't.

00:30:30:26 - 00:30:35:00
Jared
Have that, just do your best to get as much information out there as possible.

00:30:35:07 - 00:30:37:15
Jared
And that way we can get to you as.

00:30:37:15 - 00:30:39:11
Jared
Quickly as possible and bring the appropriate.

00:30:39:11 - 00:30:42:02
Jared
Supplies that we need to, because depending on.

00:30:42:02 - 00:30:46:17
Jared
What kind of injury you have, it could depend on how much gear we bring. So it's it's super important that.

00:30:46:17 - 00:30:47:18
Jared
We know all of that.

00:30:47:21 - 00:31:04:16
Kyle
Are there any other ways to use the radios? Because I'm a huge proponent of using radios, I think, it's super, super helpful, especially for these multi pitch climbs. Let's say we're out of cell phone service and all I have is a radio. Is there a like some sort of technique like scanning channels to find someone that might be in range, that might have cell.

00:31:04:16 - 00:31:16:17
Kyle
So cell phone service, are there certain channels that, might be first ones to try that might be like local communities that have radios that are active, like are there sneaky ways to use radios to try to get in contact with people?

00:31:16:19 - 00:31:22:11
Jared
You know, and I got this from a ski patrol. Friend of mine wants to is it seems like channel one seems to be like.

00:31:22:11 - 00:31:23:09
Jared
If you want.

00:31:23:09 - 00:31:26:10
Jared
To go to a channel and just start trying to turn to talk.

00:31:26:10 - 00:31:27:11
Jared
To people.

00:31:27:13 - 00:31:34:18
Jared
Channel one's probably a good one to go to. I'm not saying that that's like a standard by any means, but some other things you could do to prepare would be if you're going.

00:31:34:18 - 00:31:36:02
Jared
To go on a climb in your.

00:31:36:02 - 00:31:38:27
Jared
Park, in your car at Pine Creek or something like that, put a note on your.

00:31:38:27 - 00:31:40:29
Jared
Dash, you know, climb in, you.

00:31:40:29 - 00:31:43:15
Jared
Know, we're going to be in Pine Creek, climb in on bird.

00:31:43:15 - 00:31:44:13
Jared
Land, whatever.

00:31:44:13 - 00:31:45:19
Kyle
pretty common ice climbing thing.

00:31:45:23 - 00:31:52:26
Jared
Yeah. No, totally nice climbing for sure. But also put on there. Hey, we've got Rocky talkies. We're going to be on channel 21. Privacy for something like that.

00:31:52:26 - 00:31:54:15
Jared
You know what I mean? Like put that.

00:31:54:15 - 00:32:08:07
Jared
On your dash because it's one of the big things that we always ask people on the phone too is like, hey, where's your car? Or we'll talk to someone's wife that's out missing and be like, hey, where do they parked their car? Well, I think they were parking at Oak Creek. Cool. We'll go to Oak Creek. We always send officers on the ground first.

00:32:08:07 - 00:32:15:28
Jared
Like actual like resident officers that work out there. That way they can go out there, they'll check the car. Yep. It's here. And I look on the dash there know to do that.

00:32:16:01 - 00:32:16:12
Jared
And then they.

00:32:16:12 - 00:32:25:18
Jared
Can get as much information and from that to like how many are in your party when you left, what your itinerary was, when you were, what you were going to climb, when you were coming back, like just a few specifics like that.

00:32:25:21 - 00:32:26:08
Jared
In a radio.

00:32:26:08 - 00:32:41:20
Jared
Channel would be one of those good things to, you know, that way, if you didn't have cell service and weren't able to make contact, we know you're missing. We can come in there and start trying to make contact, because a lot of those ranges especially, excuse me, a lot of those radios, especially when you're pretty high up on a wall, they're going to reach out pretty far under the valley floor below.

00:32:41:20 - 00:32:43:26
Jared
And we'll be able to start communicating with you pretty soon.

00:32:43:26 - 00:32:46:21
Jared
So yeah, other than that.

00:32:46:23 - 00:32:48:03
Jared
You know, the radios, I.

00:32:48:03 - 00:32:48:29
Jared
Don't know.

00:32:49:01 - 00:32:58:04
Jared
And shame on me for not knowing this. If it does exist, I don't know of any public radio channels that are set aside specifically for emergencies. I have not heard of that. So.

00:32:58:07 - 00:32:58:19
Kyle
Yeah.

00:32:58:21 - 00:33:03:09
Kyle
What about some other things about SA that people probably don't know, but they should

00:33:03:12 - 00:33:04:06
Jared
totally.

00:33:04:09 - 00:33:04:25
Jared
I think one of the.

00:33:04:25 - 00:33:14:06
Jared
Biggest ones, the biggest misconception and I can only speak about the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, right, that the search and rescue team here in Las Vegas, the biggest concern.

00:33:14:06 - 00:33:17:02
Jared
That we get from people is.

00:33:17:02 - 00:33:23:00
Jared
It's usually the first question they ask us once we're there and we start making the situation safe, is how much is this going to cost.

00:33:23:00 - 00:33:25:21
Jared
Me that.

00:33:25:23 - 00:33:39:09
Jared
I it's understandable. I know there is search and rescue teams out there that charge. And that's a that's a thing we don't. And simply because we are a police department. Our tax dollars pay for these rescues. They pay for us as a service to come out and help you.

00:33:39:12 - 00:33:39:29
Jared
And why I.

00:33:39:29 - 00:33:43:29
Jared
Bring that up is because I know for a fact that we have had several individuals that.

00:33:43:29 - 00:33:45:01
Jared
Have been in.

00:33:45:01 - 00:33:51:05
Jared
Extreme emergencies that have waited way too long to call because they were afraid of incurring, like the costs.

00:33:51:07 - 00:33:51:24
Jared
Of a.

00:33:51:24 - 00:33:55:26
Jared
Helicopter coming to save them or, you know, sending like ten people or.

00:33:55:26 - 00:33:58:11
Jared
Four people out to help them, like, how much is that going to.

00:33:58:11 - 00:34:01:13
Jared
Cost? And that is a huge fear for people.

00:34:01:15 - 00:34:02:01
Jared
And that's what.

00:34:02:01 - 00:34:04:02
Jared
We want to get out there, is.

00:34:04:04 - 00:34:07:18
Jared
We don't want to be abused as a team, and I don't think we ever are.

00:34:07:21 - 00:34:22:12
Jared
But we also I know there's times where we should have been called and we weren't, simply because people were afraid that it was going to be a $50,000 or some arbitrary number, of a bill to come and save their lives. Like, that's that's not something to worry about. If you're in.

00:34:22:12 - 00:34:29:02
Jared
Trouble and you need help, call like that's that's simply put, it's that simple.

00:34:29:04 - 00:34:33:27
Jared
That's definitely I think one of the biggest misconceptions out there about search and rescue.

00:34:33:29 - 00:34:34:11
Jared
I can't.

00:34:34:18 - 00:34:36:21
Jared
Really think of any other off the top of my head.

00:34:36:21 - 00:34:37:07
Jared
Though. That's

00:34:37:07 - 00:34:40:11
Kyle
a big one. I misspoke before speaking with you. I didn't even know that

00:34:40:18 - 00:34:40:28
Jared
Right

00:34:41:03 - 00:34:48:12
Kyle
I would that would. Hannah felt the same thing. I think that's like pretty, pretty widespread, misunderstanding that people have

00:34:48:15 - 00:34:49:07
Jared
absolutely.

00:34:49:07 - 00:34:49:19
Jared
Yeah.

00:34:49:19 - 00:35:04:11
Jared
And and that's a scary thing if you think about it. Right. Because again, I can tell you for certainty, I know of situations where people didn't call and they should have because they were afraid, you know, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I've a really funny story that's actually a climbing rescue.

00:35:04:13 - 00:35:05:18
Jared
We had a group.

00:35:05:18 - 00:35:13:21
Jared
Of, two climbers that were stuck on Dark Shadows. Actually, not Dark Shadows. They were on, Prince of Darkness. Another scary dark name, right.

00:35:13:23 - 00:35:14:05
Jared
So we're two.

00:35:14:05 - 00:35:16:28
Jared
Climbers stuck on Prince of Darkness. Young climbers.

00:35:16:28 - 00:35:18:15
Jared
Visiting.

00:35:18:17 - 00:35:34:06
Jared
Very knowledgeable, very experienced. They got the rope stuck on the wrap, and we're having an epic. And it was now nighttime. And they finally made the decision that they were going to call. So they did. And they did what I said earlier. They Google search and rescue. So they called the local Red Rock Search and Rescue volunteer team, which then had their out the call.

00:35:34:06 - 00:35:49:16
Jared
So by the time we finally get in touch with them, they had waited too long because they were afraid of the fees. I made contact with them and I said, hey, I'm I'm over here at Late Night Trailhead. Just wanted to give you guys an update as soon as the helicopter gets here. You know, at this point, I'm sorry, I was texting them, so I'm texting them.

00:35:49:16 - 00:35:52:20
Jared
Hey, I'm Matt late. Matt. Soon as the helicopter gets here.

00:35:52:28 - 00:35:55:16
Jared
We'll be on the way and we'll be to you within minutes.

00:35:55:16 - 00:35:59:25
Jared
And literally within seconds, my phone rings and I'll never forget this.

00:35:59:25 - 00:36:15:02
Jared
This is just the typical climber. I was like, hey, bro, like, this is the helicopter necessary? Like, we're we're climbers, bums, dude. Like we don't have any money, man. Like, can you guys just hike in? Like, we'll stay, you know? I mean, we just need help, but, like. And I'm like. And mind.

00:36:15:02 - 00:36:16:15
Jared
You, this was this was not just.

00:36:16:15 - 00:36:17:12
Jared
Like a.

00:36:17:12 - 00:36:24:16
Jared
Perfect day. This was a frigid. This was a winter night, like, risk of hypothermia. Like these dudes did not stand a chance if they were going to stay on.

00:36:24:16 - 00:36:25:18
Jared
That wall that night. Like, it.

00:36:25:18 - 00:36:29:09
Jared
Can be very serious out there. Those mountains are can be brutal.

00:36:29:11 - 00:36:29:25
Jared
And I told.

00:36:29:25 - 00:36:31:12
Jared
Them right away, I said, man, don't worry about.

00:36:31:12 - 00:36:35:10
Jared
That. Just we're coming to get you. But again, like it, it just comes.

00:36:35:10 - 00:36:38:08
Jared
Right down to it. Like that's everybody's biggest fear.

00:36:38:10 - 00:36:41:13
Jared
And it shouldn't be like help is available if.

00:36:41:13 - 00:36:48:29
Jared
You have reached your threshold, whatever that is. We're not here to judge. If you've reached your threshold, we want you to call us as soon as possible.

00:36:49:02 - 00:36:49:19
Jared
As opposed.

00:36:49:19 - 00:36:50:23
Jared
To waiting until you're more.

00:36:50:23 - 00:36:52:21
Jared
Fatigued in more trouble.

00:36:52:21 - 00:37:04:19
Jared
And then it just becomes an epic or, you know, leads to disastrous circumstances because you waited too long and started making mistakes and things like that, trying to get out of the situation. So call us. That's it. That's the biggest, like.

00:37:04:21 - 00:37:08:04
Jared
I think myth that I would, you know, where

00:37:08:07 - 00:37:10:16
Jared
it gets bust, like if you know what I mean.

00:37:10:21 - 00:37:18:15
Kyle
think the one caveat to that is that they're still like the if you're following the paper trail, like after you're rescued and then you get put in the ambulance, then the bills

00:37:18:17 - 00:37:20:00
Jared
totally. Yeah. As long as people.

00:37:20:00 - 00:37:20:18
Jared
Understand.

00:37:20:20 - 00:37:21:17
Jared
100% and that's.

00:37:21:17 - 00:37:23:17
Jared
That is a good point.

00:37:23:19 - 00:37:24:24
Kyle
you're going to need it regardless.

00:37:24:28 - 00:37:27:28
Jared
Totally. Yeah. Getting that. Exactly.

00:37:27:28 - 00:37:37:11
Jared
And that's the big thing. And that's another thing that I guess we should probably throw out there too is we don't do transports to the hospital. So we are we are simply getting you out of the bad situation to a place where.

00:37:37:11 - 00:37:38:27
Jared
We can get you to an.

00:37:38:27 - 00:37:46:15
Jared
Ambulance, sometimes to Mercy Air, depending on how severe injuries are or how severely sick or hurt you are.

00:37:46:18 - 00:37:48:12
Jared
Yeah. Up to that point.

00:37:48:15 - 00:38:04:00
Jared
That's a service that we provide. Once you get to to those, it's just like if you were in a car accident on, on the surface streets out in Las Vegas, you get in that ambulance, you know, you're going to have to, you know, do your insurance. However that works out, you'll have to incur those fees and take care of that at a later date.

00:38:04:00 - 00:38:11:10
Jared
But the actual rescue itself, which is usually what's the scariest part for people as far as expenses are concerned. Like that's something we don't charge for.

00:38:11:15 - 00:38:13:29
Kyle
And then just to be clear, that's specific with Las

00:38:14:03 - 00:38:14:22
Jared
correct?

00:38:14:22 - 00:38:18:14
Jared
Yeah. I can only speak about our agency and we here in Clark County when it comes to.

00:38:18:14 - 00:38:22:07
Jared
That, I don't. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

00:38:22:10 - 00:38:25:13
Jared
Yeah. Smitty or you know something's gonna be up in British Columbia or something.

00:38:25:13 - 00:38:26:19
Jared
And you're like, no.

00:38:26:21 - 00:38:29:25
Jared
They said search and rescue is free. Not just talking about here in Las Vegas.

00:38:29:25 - 00:38:30:16
Jared
So

00:38:30:18 - 00:38:31:17
Kyle
Well, that's cool, man. I think that's,

00:38:31:20 - 00:38:35:29
Kyle
really important to, to dispel. So that's awesome.

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00:39:37:05 - 00:39:45:16
Kyle
what's the most common mistake you see that climbers make that leads people to get stuck or like, mistake or circumstance.

00:39:45:18 - 00:39:48:15
Jared
So I think that probably I would say the.

00:39:48:15 - 00:39:55:09
Jared
Most common thing that we run across in Red Rock is famous for this is stuck ropes. That's that's our typical.

00:39:55:09 - 00:39:58:02
Jared
One where people and.

00:39:58:02 - 00:40:03:26
Jared
It's usually always on the repel. I shouldn't say usually always. I would say most often it's on the repel.

00:40:03:28 - 00:40:04:13
Jared
And people.

00:40:04:13 - 00:40:04:29
Jared
Get their rope.

00:40:04:29 - 00:40:07:08
Jared
Stuck. Yes.

00:40:07:08 - 00:40:18:25
Jared
There's like tricks and different ways of doing self rescue and and all that stuff. But as far as your question is concerned, the biggest one where we get where people are uninjured is typically because of ropes being stuck.

00:40:18:27 - 00:40:20:11
Jared
And I would say that, a close.

00:40:20:11 - 00:40:20:25
Jared
Second.

00:40:20:25 - 00:40:26:01
Jared
To that would be when people get off route. And that happens.

00:40:26:08 - 00:40:28:17
Jared
Quite often out here as well.

00:40:28:20 - 00:40:31:22
Jared
People will look at like the guidebook and, and read.

00:40:31:22 - 00:40:43:00
Jared
Rocks is famous for like it's classics, right. It's moderate classics specifically five, six, five, seven, 5/8, even five nines that are just world class like epinephrine specifically.

00:40:43:03 - 00:40:46:14
Jared
And you look at them in the guidebook and you're like, oh man, cool.

00:40:46:14 - 00:40:51:09
Jared
I'm gonna go climb this. It's, you know, nine, ten pictures of five, six, five, seven. Just beautiful.

00:40:51:09 - 00:40:53:21
Jared
Rock. Let's go. But they don't.

00:40:53:21 - 00:40:54:21
Jared
Realize a.

00:40:54:24 - 00:40:58:03
Jared
How big that actually is, and b how.

00:40:58:05 - 00:41:02:28
Jared
Tricky some of these routes can be when it comes to actually like route finding.

00:41:03:00 - 00:41:03:18
Jared
Following.

00:41:03:18 - 00:41:12:01
Jared
Like the path of least resistance. You know, the the Red Rock stone masters from back in the day came up with some really creative routes out there.

00:41:12:04 - 00:41:12:09
Jared
And.

00:41:12:09 - 00:41:18:02
Jared
We'll oftentimes get people that go off route. And then next thing you know, they're in some just crazy terrain that they can't protect.

00:41:18:06 - 00:41:21:26
Jared
There's, you know, nothing to even build anchors in.

00:41:21:28 - 00:41:41:18
Jared
You know? So that actually happens quite frequently. That was another rescue that we had just yesterday actually where we had two people on again, one of these classic five sevens. They went off route into terrain that wasn't even a route. So it was chalk. There was no places for protection. And we had two climbers that ended up having to spend the night in their stance.

00:41:41:18 - 00:41:42:05
Jared
Like we had.

00:41:42:07 - 00:41:43:12
Jared
The leader was still on.

00:41:43:12 - 00:41:44:07
Jared
Lead.

00:41:44:09 - 00:41:55:03
Jared
The entire night, found himself a nice little ledge to chill on. Had no place to, you know, place pro it was dark. The rock was crumbly. He couldn't safely down climate, unsure if the gear below him was even.

00:41:55:03 - 00:41:55:21
Jared
Good.

00:41:55:21 - 00:42:09:12
Jared
You know. So that would. Those two situations are what we see most often and they're honest mistakes, you know, getting a rope stuck. There's just sometimes that and that that just simply cannot be avoided. Now is there's there ways to.

00:42:09:13 - 00:42:09:24
Jared
You know.

00:42:09:24 - 00:42:11:18
Jared
Be prepared and know how to get them.

00:42:11:18 - 00:42:12:03
Jared
Unstuck.

00:42:12:10 - 00:42:25:14
Jared
In some cases, yes. But there's other cases where we've had very experienced climbers who've gotten their ropes proper stuck. And because of the circumstances of how it was stuck, where it was stuck, things like that, and they didn't have enough rope left over to free it.

00:42:25:16 - 00:42:30:24
Jared
You know, they they needed help and that's okay. So call, you know, I mean, so.

00:42:30:27 - 00:42:33:18
Kyle
Before you start juggling up your rope on a

00:42:33:20 - 00:42:36:03
Jared
Yeah. That's wrapped around a flake or something like that. Yeah.

00:42:36:04 - 00:42:37:06
Jared
Exactly. Yeah.

00:42:37:08 - 00:42:38:26
Jared
Called before you do something that.

00:42:38:26 - 00:42:42:26
Jared
Can kill you. Like that's the big thing, you know what I mean? Because we'll always get the.

00:42:42:26 - 00:42:49:13
Jared
You know, we're we're pretty famous as a team for posting a lot of our rescues and stuff on social media. And, you know, we'll go through the comments, we'll read them.

00:42:49:13 - 00:42:50:13
Jared
And the.

00:42:50:13 - 00:42:52:25
Jared
Keyboard warriors love to come out and just hate.

00:42:52:25 - 00:43:01:16
Jared
On the victims. And oh, you know how dumb you could have done this. You could have done that and that. That's almost laughable to me. I almost it's.

00:43:01:16 - 00:43:03:03
Jared
Silly because if you're not there, you.

00:43:03:03 - 00:43:04:06
Jared
Don't know. You don't know.

00:43:04:06 - 00:43:12:03
Jared
We don't post details as far as who climbed and who they were and how much experience they have, that's that's not important. That's not relevant. All that matters is that people needed.

00:43:12:03 - 00:43:15:20
Jared
Help and we came and helped them. So don't you know Monday.

00:43:15:20 - 00:43:18:01
Jared
Morning quarterback people are just saying, oh.

00:43:18:03 - 00:43:21:06
Jared
I wouldn't have happened to me because it can happen to anyone.

00:43:21:08 - 00:43:26:07
Jared
And that's another thing that I think is super important, is that you need to understand.

00:43:26:08 - 00:43:28:09
Jared
That anybody like.

00:43:28:09 - 00:43:36:27
Jared
Climbing is inherently dangerous. Anybody can find themselves in a situation where they need to be rescued. And we have rescued very experienced climbers.

00:43:36:29 - 00:43:37:21
Jared
And it's just.

00:43:37:21 - 00:43:38:27
Jared
It's just part of climbing.

00:43:38:27 - 00:43:40:20
Jared
So keep that in mind, you.

00:43:40:20 - 00:43:45:04
Jared
Know, I mean, have a plan, be prepared. But just understand too, that there is times where you need help

00:43:45:07 - 00:43:46:14
Kyle
Yeah, there's like no shame in calling for

00:43:46:16 - 00:43:50:17
Jared
100%, 100%. There's no shame in calling for rescue.

00:43:50:24 - 00:43:55:06
Kyle
Maybe if you were a keyboard warrior and you shamed people, maybe you should at least have some guilt

00:43:55:09 - 00:43:56:19
Jared
totally for what you did.

00:43:56:21 - 00:43:58:20
Jared
Right? Exactly. Yeah.

00:43:58:23 - 00:44:01:21
Kyle
So you talked about these classic climbers, epinephrine. And,

00:44:01:21 - 00:44:04:09
Kyle
Crimson Chrysalis is also another one.

00:44:04:09 - 00:44:07:00
Kyle
I would imagine you see a lot of rescues on those two

00:44:07:03 - 00:44:10:25
Jared
Yeah, I think we've done at least.

00:44:10:25 - 00:44:14:17
Jared
Three that I can think of just off the top of my head right now on Crimson.

00:44:14:17 - 00:44:16:15
Jared
Alone.

00:44:16:17 - 00:44:18:09
Jared
You know, there's a dedicated wrap route on that.

00:44:18:09 - 00:44:18:25
Jared
That route.

00:44:18:25 - 00:44:19:12
Jared
Now, that's

00:44:19:17 - 00:44:27:28
Kyle
particularly what I want to dive into is, are people getting their rope stuck on the dedicated wrap route, or are they getting their rope stuck trying to rappelled the actual lead

00:44:28:00 - 00:44:36:16
Jared
So the three that I can think of right now, I've top of my head, one was just yesterday, we're on the dedicated wrap route.

00:44:36:18 - 00:44:37:01
Jared
That one.

00:44:37:01 - 00:44:40:04
Jared
Definitely takes some finesse. Like all climbs in Red Rock.

00:44:40:07 - 00:44:44:04
Jared
You know, having good rope pulling technique.

00:44:44:04 - 00:45:04:06
Jared
Is pretty critical out here, period, as it is in most areas. But like we're known for our Velcro, like, you know, sandstone with flakes galore. And there is a couple sections on that on that repel route that if, you know, if it's windy like it was yesterday, there's a, there's very little you can do to avoid that. And sometimes ropes just do what they want to do.

00:45:04:12 - 00:45:04:23
Jared
Like, you.

00:45:04:23 - 00:45:08:00
Jared
Know, there's a reason Indiana Jones could snap his whip around stuff.

00:45:08:00 - 00:45:09:27
Jared
And, like, you know, like rope.

00:45:09:27 - 00:45:31:01
Jared
Skin. I've seen ropes, clove around flakes to where you are not getting that done. Like you could. You know, we've had people try to mar their ropes off of stuff and you're not going to, you know, I mean, and we go up and on a couple of those we've access from the top, and as we come down, we're able to free the rope and we'll look at it and like, oh wow, I had one on Crimson where their rope literally closed around a flake just when they were pulling it in.

00:45:31:04 - 00:45:32:06
Jared
You know, is there.

00:45:32:06 - 00:45:45:22
Jared
Ways that you can pull rope to avoid that? In most cases, yes. But there's sometimes circumstances, you know, and especially after a big route like that and fatigue is set in, you know, maybe you didn't give the perfect slack or you pulled too fast or whatever.

00:45:45:25 - 00:45:57:16
Kyle
Yeah. Do you have any like very quick subtle, things people could try to do when they pull ropes out here that would lead to a less chance of them getting stuck. Obviously there's a sense of chaos there, but

00:45:57:22 - 00:45:58:09
Jared
Yeah.

00:45:58:12 - 00:46:01:19
Jared
I think the first one would be to make sure you pull out your knots.

00:46:01:22 - 00:46:04:25
Jared
We have had that you know, we have had people forget to to pull.

00:46:04:25 - 00:46:05:07
Jared
They're not.

00:46:05:07 - 00:46:07:00
Jared
Out and maybe.

00:46:07:00 - 00:46:15:05
Jared
Didn't remember that they forgot to pull it out. So it's stuck. You know, whatever they get up at the chains, wrap the wrap rings or something like that. So you make sure you clear your knots.

00:46:15:12 - 00:46:18:10
Kyle
too scary to jump back up because it could pop through the

00:46:18:10 - 00:46:18:23
Jared
Yeah.

00:46:18:23 - 00:46:28:02
Jared
And one particular one that I can think of, like they didn't even remember if they thought they did pull their knot. Right. So if you thought you pulled, you're not and you didn't because again, fatigue you're doing your on your sixth repel or.

00:46:28:02 - 00:46:30:15
Jared
Whatever you know, you can't.

00:46:30:15 - 00:46:37:18
Jared
Get complacent when it comes to climbing period. But the end of the day, the coming down is oftentimes more dangerous than.

00:46:37:18 - 00:46:38:22
Jared
The going up.

00:46:38:24 - 00:46:53:06
Jared
And that's also the time that you're at your worst, right? Like you're tired, you've just done a big thing and it's time to get down. So that would be like the first one. And that's not so subtle. Like that's just like, hey, take a minute. Do your body check. Hey, I took the knot out. Confirmed. Like do it on everyone.

00:46:53:06 - 00:46:56:19
Jared
Like that might sound like just like a nerdy thing to do.

00:46:56:21 - 00:46:58:14
Kyle
sure I have the rope go through my hand.

00:46:58:22 - 00:46:59:26
Jared
totally. That's

00:46:59:28 - 00:47:03:01
Kyle
it literally has to be undone for it to go past me.

00:47:03:04 - 00:47:06:07
Jared
Very good. Yeah. Like little trips like that. Absolutely.

00:47:06:09 - 00:47:09:11
Jared
And then I think a big thing out here too is pull slow, you know what I mean?

00:47:09:11 - 00:47:21:18
Jared
Like, really pull nice and gradual and not just when you're pulling the rope, but try to be managing that line as it's coming down to you too, because we'll get people that get the rope stuck below them when they let it just go crazy down the wall.

00:47:21:20 - 00:47:22:22
Jared
So do as much as.

00:47:22:22 - 00:47:26:24
Jared
You can to like, have good rope maintenance and just housekeeping as you're doing.

00:47:26:24 - 00:47:27:21
Jared
These things.

00:47:27:24 - 00:47:29:04
Jared
But as you're pulling nice and.

00:47:29:04 - 00:47:30:25
Jared
Slow and then when you get that moment.

00:47:30:25 - 00:47:38:21
Jared
Where you know, it's about to like, you can feel it, right? We all know what that feels like. That's the time where you want to try to get it away from the wall as much as possible, right?

00:47:38:21 - 00:47:40:09
Jared
Like get that thing out. Like, don't.

00:47:40:09 - 00:47:45:16
Jared
Pull it straight down. Try to get it to come out. So that way it will start clearing with some of those features and stuff like that.

00:47:45:19 - 00:48:09:03
Kyle
think that you mentioned multiple good things there. I think not only trying to rope or route the rope when you're pulling, but root the rope when you're repelling Azure repelling like watch the features. What is the rope going on over, especially as a last one to repel. If you're doing, you know, parties are to like, choose where the line is so that when you're repelling, like you're thinking cable, like the rope is going to fall this way, like, oh, that's a really sketchy flick.

00:48:09:03 - 00:48:13:16
Kyle
Let me put the root over here or rope over here. Like you can plan all of that on the way

00:48:13:18 - 00:48:14:18
Jared
Yeah, absolutely.

00:48:14:18 - 00:48:20:07
Jared
And two other things I think are really important to talk about when we're on the subject of repelling and getting rope stuck.

00:48:20:10 - 00:48:20:28
Jared
One of my pet.

00:48:20:28 - 00:48:38:26
Jared
Peeves, and I see this all the time on Mountain Project and like different comments or just in comments on general on the internet, is people really push for you not to put knots in the end of your rope out here, and it drives me crazy. It's literally a nation worldwide. The number one killer of like people rappelling.

00:48:38:28 - 00:48:39:14
Jared
And.

00:48:39:15 - 00:48:58:14
Jared
Deaths when it comes to repelling is ripping off the end of their ropes. I mean, experienced climbers. There was one in Yosemite not too long ago. You know what I mean? Put a knot in the end of your rope. If you're concerned that that knot is going to get caught somewhere on the wall as you're going down the wall, then learn how to saddlebag your ropes, have good techniques for rope management, especially with the winds.

00:48:58:14 - 00:49:06:02
Jared
That we get out here. Pretty much any time I'm out there rappelling on like a good wall, unless it's something like, you know, in Black.

00:49:06:02 - 00:49:16:22
Jared
Velvet where it's just smooth and you can see all the way down it. I'm saddlebag in my ropes. If I'm doing a double rope repel or single rope. It doesn't matter. The ropes are managed. They're on.

00:49:16:22 - 00:49:17:14
Jared
Me.

00:49:17:17 - 00:49:19:19
Jared
And I'm managing those down there. And then I'm.

00:49:19:19 - 00:49:21:25
Jared
Also, you know, I'm maintaining.

00:49:21:25 - 00:49:27:16
Jared
Those ends while my partner repels and stuff, too. I'm giving them a fireman's belay. And that might be the sorry nerd.

00:49:27:16 - 00:49:31:02
Jared
In me, but, you know, my my, my dad taught me, you know.

00:49:31:02 - 00:49:34:05
Jared
From a very young age, like, you can never be too safe in the mountains.

00:49:34:05 - 00:49:36:09
Jared
You know, another big thing that,

00:49:36:11 - 00:49:41:10
Jared
I always do with anybody that I'm out climbing with, and I suggest other people do, is we get everybody set up on.

00:49:41:10 - 00:49:44:03
Jared
Repel together, and we double.

00:49:44:03 - 00:49:52:20
Jared
Check each other and we'll stack each other on the lines at the anchor, check each other's systems. We always have, like, a third hand, some sort of backup.

00:49:52:22 - 00:49:53:08
Jared
And then.

00:49:53:08 - 00:49:55:20
Jared
Once we've safety checked each other, then we start.

00:49:55:20 - 00:49:57:06
Jared
Repelling. And that can.

00:49:57:06 - 00:50:06:04
Jared
Alleviate a lot of these accidents and stuff, too. So I know we kind of went off on a tangent there as far as ropes getting stuck, but those are just like all good techniques that I think could save a lot of people, a.

00:50:06:04 - 00:50:07:11
Jared
Lot of time.

00:50:07:13 - 00:50:12:03
Jared
You know, not necessarily save them from getting rescue, but how many times have you been frustrated on a repel because you had.

00:50:12:03 - 00:50:13:05
Jared
To, like, you know.

00:50:13:05 - 00:50:17:01
Jared
Traverse all over the wall to unstick your rope from 17 different flakes and stuff.

00:50:17:01 - 00:50:17:16
Jared
Like that?

00:50:17:22 - 00:50:26:12
Kyle
one of my I've climbed, Black Orpheus like a very beginning in my climbing career. Out here. We wrap down the goalie instead of actually doing, like, the walk

00:50:26:14 - 00:50:28:29
Jared
Okay, the painted bull, like or.

00:50:29:01 - 00:50:30:01
Jared
Oh, okay. Like

00:50:30:01 - 00:50:31:28
Kyle
the goalie just to the east of the solar

00:50:32:02 - 00:50:33:28
Jared
slab. Yep. Okay.

00:50:34:01 - 00:50:40:21
Kyle
And it was epic. We had to cut my friend's brand new rope. And it was like we just left it hanging there. We didn't know what we were doing.

00:50:40:24 - 00:50:54:17
Kyle
after that incident, I was, like, terrified of rappelling just because I'm like, even Hannah in the beginning, when we started climbing, I was like, we're rappelling now. Like, now. Now it's time to be scared. Like, I had so much anxiety built up around, like, the ropes going to get stuck.

00:50:54:17 - 00:51:13:27
Kyle
Like I was like, neurotic about how I pulled it. And it would like, I don't know, I like the the anxiety I had around it almost made the situation worse, where I was like getting my rope stuck more and more. It was like this self-fulfilling prophecy. And now, like, I've gotten a lot more chill about it. I found that thinner ropes out here don't get stuck as much like A928991.

00:51:13:27 - 00:51:24:24
Kyle
Like those thinner ropes tend to, you know, slide through the batting a lot better. And then, yeah, like you said, anybody who's saying like, don't tire knots because if you pull the rope up, it's going to get stuck. Just. Saddleback.

00:51:25:00 - 00:51:25:13
Jared
absolutely.

00:51:25:13 - 00:51:33:28
Jared
I mean there's so many different techniques. Saddle bagging is a big one too. I mean just closing the ends of the ropes to yourself. So you have the ends. I mean, there's there's a ton of different ways, you know.

00:51:33:28 - 00:51:35:11
Jared
What I mean? And the other.

00:51:35:11 - 00:51:48:00
Jared
Thing too, is like the condition of your gear, like a new rope is going to pull a lot better than an old fuzzy rope that should have been retired. You know what I mean? Things like that, too. So take good care of your gear. But yeah, climbing ropes have come a long ways, man. Like, they're nice and light now.

00:51:48:00 - 00:51:48:15
Jared
And, like.

00:51:48:15 - 00:51:49:26
Jared
Still like, super good.

00:51:49:26 - 00:51:50:28
Jared
But yeah, they.

00:51:50:28 - 00:51:53:14
Jared
Definitely pull better. But that anxiety you were talking.

00:51:53:14 - 00:51:57:07
Jared
About I still get that. And I think that's because.

00:51:57:07 - 00:51:58:19
Jared
I'm hyper aware of like.

00:51:58:26 - 00:51:59:06
Jared
How.

00:51:59:06 - 00:52:01:02
Jared
Important it is to to repel.

00:52:01:02 - 00:52:04:18
Jared
Safely, you know what I mean? And I think that anxiety should.

00:52:04:18 - 00:52:11:00
Jared
Be kind of in everybody's head, like, don't get complacent, don't overlook rappelling because it can literally.

00:52:11:02 - 00:52:12:23
Jared
You know, make a good day.

00:52:12:23 - 00:52:17:07
Jared
Bad real quick. If you mess it up and we don't go to the climbing gym and practice rappelling.

00:52:17:11 - 00:52:18:08
Jared
You know what I mean?

00:52:18:11 - 00:52:21:20
Jared
We we just we practice climbing all the time and then.

00:52:21:22 - 00:52:22:01
Jared
You know.

00:52:22:01 - 00:52:36:28
Jared
Just wing it. Sometimes when it comes to rappelling, I'm not saying everybody's winging it, but there's just a lot that can go wrong in rappelling. So really stay focused on that, you know, have a good plan for it. Don't be afraid to jump on the YouTube in the interwebs and check out some different techniques and stuff like that to make yourself.

00:52:37:00 - 00:52:39:21
Jared
A more well-rounded, you know, mountain athlete.

00:52:39:24 - 00:52:43:11
Jared
You know, just going to make it a better enjoyable experience for everybody.

00:52:43:13 - 00:53:00:12
Kyle
I had someone say recently, you know, we we all talk about risk tolerance as climbers. And we can be like Boulder, we can go run out. We can space gear, we can climb more boulder routes. And he said, you know, be a bold climber, but don't be a boulder repeller. Like, don't take the same risk tolerance.

00:53:00:12 - 00:53:04:00
Kyle
You allocate yourself to climbing and apply that to repelling

00:53:04:03 - 00:53:20:04
Kyle
you don't have a margin for error when you repel, like follow the systems. Don't get complacent. Tire nots. Double check your system. Communicate with your partner like that's the time to not take on any extra risk. Just because you want to be efficient or cool or

00:53:20:06 - 00:53:21:06
Jared
Yeah. I mean, think about it.

00:53:21:06 - 00:53:25:09
Jared
You we make mistakes climbing all the time. If we didn't, we wouldn't progress, right? Like, we.

00:53:25:09 - 00:53:26:08
Jared
We, you know.

00:53:26:14 - 00:53:32:26
Jared
We push ourselves to the limit to get better at climbing. You know, you're out on your whatever project. And if you're not falling.

00:53:32:26 - 00:53:33:22
Jared
Then, you know.

00:53:33:22 - 00:53:38:21
Jared
Then you're probably not climbing at your hardest level so you can afford to make mistakes there. You can't afford to.

00:53:38:21 - 00:53:39:13
Jared
Make any.

00:53:39:13 - 00:53:41:07
Jared
Mistakes when it comes to repelling.

00:53:41:09 - 00:53:41:24
Jared
Like you.

00:53:41:24 - 00:53:45:29
Jared
Can't simply put you. I mean, like, so that's like, probably what? I'm probably gonna steal that saying.

00:53:45:29 - 00:53:47:15
Jared
You know, be a bold climber, but.

00:53:47:17 - 00:53:48:18
Jared
Not a boulder repeller.

00:53:48:18 - 00:53:49:09
Jared
Yeah.

00:53:49:11 - 00:53:50:00
Jared
So,

00:53:50:03 - 00:53:57:16
Kyle
we talked about. So, you know, opening up the concept of a free rescue, I think that use, like, you know, obviously we don't want people to abuse it.

00:53:57:19 - 00:54:04:15
Kyle
So let's talk about, like, where's the line between I need a rescue and I need to figure this out myself.

00:54:04:18 - 00:54:06:04
Jared
Yeah. And that's that's the.

00:54:06:04 - 00:54:07:09
Jared
Million dollar question. Right?

00:54:07:11 - 00:54:07:28
Jared
Right.

00:54:08:00 - 00:54:08:25
Jared
Pun intended.

00:54:08:25 - 00:54:10:02
Jared
No. Yeah.

00:54:10:04 - 00:54:13:00
Jared
It's not $1 million question because we were talking about rescues being free.

00:54:13:00 - 00:54:14:04
Jared
But

00:54:14:06 - 00:54:16:09
Jared
I it's it's subjective and.

00:54:16:09 - 00:54:17:06
Jared
There is no line.

00:54:17:06 - 00:54:20:23
Jared
Right. And I'll give you a good example. I had a group.

00:54:20:23 - 00:54:21:22
Jared
Of climbers.

00:54:21:22 - 00:54:25:08
Jared
On group therapy. So angel food wall right.

00:54:25:08 - 00:54:27:00
Jared
White rock area out there.

00:54:27:03 - 00:54:30:16
Jared
And they had just had an epic day.

00:54:30:16 - 00:54:37:01
Jared
We had one quasi experienced climber, and then they were a party of three to brand new, like first Multipage.

00:54:37:01 - 00:54:40:16
Jared
Right. They the, the.

00:54:40:16 - 00:54:49:22
Jared
The experienced climber wasn't a guide or anything like that, but he knew his way around ropes. He knew how to grab, climb, place gear safely, things like that. He he was managing his group fine, but he had two people.

00:54:49:22 - 00:54:52:24
Jared
That were just having an epic. Like one of the.

00:54:52:27 - 00:54:57:12
Jared
One of the parties lost some climbing shoes. At one point. They started at 7 a.m..

00:54:57:14 - 00:55:03:04
Jared
They finally called us at, I want to say around midnight we got the call.

00:55:03:04 - 00:55:18:04
Jared
That they were stuck. Then it came across one of the places I was talking about earlier. I can't remember the brand. It's not a Garmin, but one similar. And we get the call that they're out there, we fly in, they've got headlamps, thank goodness. So we were able to spot them right away. And where they were.

00:55:18:06 - 00:55:18:22
Jared
Was at the.

00:55:18:22 - 00:55:21:10
Jared
Base of the the last pitch. So they were.

00:55:21:12 - 00:55:21:27
Jared
Right.

00:55:21:27 - 00:55:31:20
Jared
Underneath. There's like kind of a like a little cave like alcove up there below. I think that's the sixth pitch, if I remember correctly. It's been a minute since I've been on that route. They weren't hurt.

00:55:31:22 - 00:55:34:26
Jared
They weren't, injured. They weren't stuck.

00:55:34:26 - 00:55:43:20
Jared
They had all their climbing equipment. They were safe in this alcove, but they had reached their mental threshold for sure, like they were done.

00:55:43:20 - 00:55:44:12
Jared
Like in.

00:55:44:19 - 00:55:47:07
Jared
Endurance sports. You know, there's bonking.

00:55:47:09 - 00:55:50:17
Jared
They mentally bonked. And, you know.

00:55:50:24 - 00:55:55:00
Jared
I remember that particular post. There was so many haters in the in the comments.

00:55:55:02 - 00:55:59:04
Jared
That you should make them pay and like, how dare them. And and.

00:55:59:07 - 00:56:00:07
Jared
You don't understand though.

00:56:00:08 - 00:56:02:03
Jared
Like people like that, if.

00:56:02:03 - 00:56:08:09
Jared
They've reached that limit where they're ready to throw in the towel and they, they just can't go on anymore.

00:56:08:11 - 00:56:11:08
Jared
We don't want them trying to go on. You don't you don't want.

00:56:11:08 - 00:56:22:23
Jared
People like that trying to figure it out. If they are so mentally fried because they've had an epic day. So it's not fair to say that they can't call. But the guy that, you know broke his leg can.

00:56:22:23 - 00:56:23:07
Jared
Like.

00:56:23:07 - 00:56:23:27
Jared
You know, so.

00:56:23:27 - 00:56:25:05
Jared
I don't feel.

00:56:25:05 - 00:56:30:12
Jared
Like there is a line that you can draw on the sand where, you know, this qualifies and this doesn't.

00:56:30:12 - 00:56:32:00
Jared
Like if you need help, we will.

00:56:32:00 - 00:56:47:22
Jared
Do everything we can to help you. We're going to talk to you about it. We're going to ask you about it. If it sounds like you're in a safe position and it's nighttime and it's not safe for us to come out and get you, we might ask you to wait till the morning. In fact, oftentimes we will, because we got to keep it safe as we can for us, too, right?

00:56:47:24 - 00:56:55:14
Jared
So if you're, you know, prepared to stay for an overnight and you have all the layers and stuff that you need and you know you're just in a bad situation, hey.

00:56:55:17 - 00:56:56:17
Jared
That's what Vivian.

00:56:56:17 - 00:57:02:26
Jared
Is all about. It's going to build some character and we'll come get you in the morning when it's safer for us to do so. But you're not wrong for calling.

00:57:02:28 - 00:57:03:11
Jared
And I think.

00:57:03:11 - 00:57:07:28
Jared
That's the most important message that we need to get out there to people is it's okay.

00:57:08:00 - 00:57:09:17
Jared
You're a different.

00:57:09:17 - 00:57:13:16
Jared
Human than the person on the pitch. Like below, you are the climb next to you.

00:57:13:18 - 00:57:14:22
Jared
You don't know, like.

00:57:14:22 - 00:57:16:25
Jared
What they're going through and they don't know what you're going.

00:57:16:25 - 00:57:19:20
Jared
Through. So, you know, you got to take all that, like.

00:57:19:20 - 00:57:29:26
Jared
That bigger picture into account. And we're pretty good about that as a team of really communicating with our our people that call us to figure out exactly what's going on and oftentimes, you know.

00:57:29:28 - 00:57:31:06
Jared
If you need help, you made.

00:57:31:06 - 00:57:36:18
Jared
And this is what we tell people all the time, people love to apologize and say, hey, I'm so sorry. We're like, wasting your time and this and that.

00:57:36:18 - 00:57:37:14
Jared
And the other thing.

00:57:37:17 - 00:57:39:17
Jared
First thing I tell them is you do the right thing by calling.

00:57:39:20 - 00:57:45:05
Jared
If you think you need a call, you probably need to call. You know what I mean? I mean, it's in my.

00:57:45:05 - 00:57:52:08
Jared
Opinion, it's that simple. If you think you're in that specific of a situation where your life's in danger.

00:57:52:10 - 00:57:54:24
Jared
Call. It's that simple.

00:57:54:27 - 00:57:59:02
Kyle
How would you handle someone who is blatantly abusing it?

00:57:59:05 - 00:58:00:04
Kyle
Yeah.

00:58:00:06 - 00:58:12:18
Kyle
I'm on the top of Wilson, and I don't want to walk off. And so I call and I fake an injury or whatever it is, like, how do you handle someone who does something like that? And do you have any actual anecdotal experience?

00:58:12:20 - 00:58:13:20
Jared
I'll, I'll.

00:58:13:22 - 00:58:21:07
Jared
I'll answer the second part first. I don't have any anecdotal experience of somebody faking an injury to get rescue.

00:58:21:09 - 00:58:25:03
Jared
Again, we do call screening. We do.

00:58:25:05 - 00:58:40:21
Jared
Offer a lot of assistance over the phone. And in times like that, too, we have been able to resolve rescues over the phone. When we get people that are calling in because they're confused, scared, or whatever the case may be, we can walk them through like, hey, do you have cell service? Because I'm talking on the phone right now.

00:58:40:21 - 00:58:55:07
Jared
You do? Cool. Let's download this app called Gaia or Onyx or something like that real quick. You know what I mean? In situations like that or hey, start looking around. Do you see any pile of rocks we call those cairns. See if you can find one of those. All right. Do you have a headlamp? Cool. So like there's a lot of times where we can walk people down.

00:58:55:08 - 00:58:55:29
Jared
Out of that.

00:58:56:01 - 00:59:05:00
Jared
Now let's say the hypothetical that you discuss comes up or we get somebody that's like just gassed and they're like, you know, screw this. I'm not I'm not hiking off this mountain. I've had.

00:59:05:00 - 00:59:08:03
Jared
Enough. And they call in and they're like.

00:59:08:06 - 00:59:12:28
Jared
I think I, you know, broke my ankle or whatever. And we get out there and you're totally fine.

00:59:13:01 - 00:59:14:09
Jared
We do have it. It is.

00:59:14:09 - 00:59:14:27
Jared
Written.

00:59:14:27 - 00:59:15:06
Jared
In.

00:59:15:06 - 00:59:25:16
Jared
Like our policies and you know that you can be charged when they are egregious and stuff like that. And it's almost under the guidelines of like misuse of 901 because again, we're a police department. Right.

00:59:25:16 - 00:59:26:23
Jared
So it's the.

00:59:26:23 - 00:59:30:20
Jared
Same thing if you call them like a fake police like shooting or something like.

00:59:30:20 - 00:59:31:24
Jared
That. And, you know, you can be.

00:59:31:24 - 00:59:39:12
Jared
Convicted of that kind of stuff. So, you know, that could technically fall under those guidelines. But that's just not something that we typically see.

00:59:39:15 - 00:59:41:23
Jared
Especially in the climbing rock

00:59:41:25 - 00:59:44:17
Jared
climbers that I mean, that's the one.

00:59:44:17 - 00:59:49:03
Jared
Thing I love about this community is that's just not that's just not usually like the.

00:59:49:03 - 00:59:52:21
Jared
People that, you know, we all know as climbers. I will.

00:59:52:21 - 00:59:58:05
Jared
Say on our mountain rescue side, we do have rescues.

00:59:58:08 - 01:00:03:09
Jared
More frequently than I'd like to admit. Where it's.

01:00:03:09 - 01:00:05:00
Jared
People.

01:00:05:02 - 01:00:09:12
Jared
In sometimes like drug induced mental crises.

01:00:09:14 - 01:00:10:18
Jared
That we have to go out.

01:00:10:18 - 01:00:11:16
Jared
And find that.

01:00:11:16 - 01:00:12:15
Jared
Have, you know.

01:00:12:15 - 01:00:26:16
Jared
Gone wandering and just kind of gone off the rails and found themselves in some crazy places, and they're calling loved ones and they're not usually calling us. They're calling loved ones saying, I'm going to harm myself or things like that, and I'm going to go climb up this mountain and jump off this cliff.

01:00:26:16 - 01:00:28:19
Jared
And those ones can be, I.

01:00:28:19 - 01:00:35:22
Jared
Would say, if there was ever a rescue that was quasi frustrating, it would be situations like that, and we've actually had quite a few of those.

01:00:35:25 - 01:00:36:18
Jared
In the, you know.

01:00:36:20 - 01:00:42:11
Jared
Recent time period where people are under the influence of certain narcotics and things like that, and out.

01:00:42:11 - 01:00:43:28
Jared
Being, you know.

01:00:44:00 - 01:00:46:13
Jared
Whether it's suicidal or just being like having a bad.

01:00:46:13 - 01:00:50:14
Jared
Day and, you know, being unruly and they, you know, want to play.

01:00:50:14 - 01:00:58:26
Jared
Hide and seek. And we have to go out and try to find them, because we do have a duty as a police department to save lives. So we do have to go out and try to find some of these people.

01:00:58:28 - 01:01:00:26
Jared
And those ones can be.

01:01:00:29 - 01:01:09:08
Jared
I hate to use the word frustrating, but they can be when you have a person that doesn't want to be found, but we have to go try to find you. And then when we do find you, you want to be combative.

01:01:09:08 - 01:01:13:29
Jared
Like we've had that. And that's, that's that's kind of a bummer when you think about it.

01:01:13:29 - 01:01:16:01
Jared
When we're actually trying to save you and.

01:01:16:01 - 01:01:16:19
Jared
Get you.

01:01:16:19 - 01:01:19:03
Jared
Out of like a very critical situation.

01:01:19:03 - 01:01:23:22
Jared
And you want to resist and like, you know what I mean?

01:01:23:22 - 01:01:32:07
Jared
Like, we've had not personally with me, but we've had one of our officers, actually have to like, subdue someone that was trying to swing at them.

01:01:32:09 - 01:01:32:18
Jared
You know.

01:01:32:18 - 01:01:33:18
Jared
On a rescue because they.

01:01:33:18 - 01:01:34:23
Jared
Were. Yeah.

01:01:34:29 - 01:01:41:18
Jared
And I use the term rescue loosely on that one. It was they were, you know, high on illegal narcotics and.

01:01:41:20 - 01:01:47:28
Jared
You know, like, so that's, that's but that's such a, that's a rare thing, you know, but it does happen, you know what I mean.

01:01:47:28 - 01:01:53:27
Jared
So but as far as more specifically to the climbing, it's just not something that we, we typically see if you're if you're.

01:01:53:27 - 01:01:55:19
Jared
Climbing in you're in a.

01:01:55:19 - 01:01:56:24
Jared
Bad spot.

01:01:56:26 - 01:02:01:23
Jared
And you think you need a call, just call like there's not going to be any.

01:02:01:26 - 01:02:03:26
Jared
Retribution for that or any blowback.

01:02:03:26 - 01:02:05:04
Jared
From that, you know what I mean?

01:02:05:07 - 01:02:26:22
Kyle
Let's be real for a second. The blueprint for a successful climbing podcast is simple. Interview the most famous climbers in the world. Big names mean big followings. Lots of SEO power and a built in audience that helps promote every episode. But this show, this show has never been about that. From the beginning, it has been my mission to bring you stories from the climbing majority.

01:02:26:22 - 01:02:45:19
Kyle
The climbers who don't live in the limelight, the ones who quietly put up roots, build communities and help give back in ways that are rarely recognized. And while that's what makes this show special, it also means we have an uphill battle when it comes to growth. And that is where you come in. If you believe in the show, if you've been fired up, inspired by an episode.

01:02:45:21 - 01:03:06:29
Kyle
Word of Mouth is the single most powerful way to help the show share an episode with a friend. Post about us on social media. Jump on to Reddit threads and Mountain project forums and tell people what you've been listening to. Also, I am on a mission to beat Climbing Gold Spotify review account. If you haven't already left the show a review, please head on over to Spotify to give this show five stars.

01:03:07:00 - 01:03:09:12
Kyle
We only have 1000 more ratings to go.

01:03:09:15 - 01:03:22:09
Kyle
for your from call to response time, obviously it varies dramatically depending on the location of the actual rescue. But like, what would you say a typical response time is for a on the wall

01:03:22:12 - 01:03:27:16
Jared
Sure. Again, there's a lot of variables that play into this too.

01:03:27:18 - 01:03:30:01
Jared
First of all, I'd start with like severity of injury.

01:03:30:01 - 01:03:31:26
Jared
So you take a weapon.

01:03:31:26 - 01:03:43:11
Jared
Break an ankle or, you know, break an arm or something like that, that's a lot different than you, let's say breaking like a femur or having a laceration and you're bleeding out. It's things that are more critical.

01:03:43:11 - 01:03:44:11
Jared
So we kind.

01:03:44:11 - 01:03:48:27
Jared
Of categorize our rescues. We use like just a simple system of level one, two and three, level one.

01:03:48:27 - 01:03:53:27
Jared
Being like Life-Threatening, level three being, you know, you could probably stay the night.

01:03:54:00 - 01:03:55:27
Jared
Level twos are usually where we have.

01:03:55:27 - 01:03:58:22
Jared
That like broken ankle broken, you.

01:03:58:22 - 01:04:05:26
Jared
Know, something kind of like a minor break, some sort of minor or moderate injury on the wall.

01:04:05:29 - 01:04:07:00
Jared
Those ones.

01:04:07:04 - 01:04:11:12
Jared
We're going to activate the team. We're going to get the team start heading that way. But that's kind of like.

01:04:11:12 - 01:04:12:18
Jared
That normal.

01:04:12:18 - 01:04:28:21
Jared
Police call where we're not using lights and sirens. So we'll start heading that way. And it's again, there's other factors that play into it. I happen to live very close to like where our helicopters are and our office is located out. So it's usually quick for me to get to our office and then just go on the helicopter and start heading your way.

01:04:28:24 - 01:04:32:25
Jared
Some of the other guys live closer to Red Rock, so it's quicker for them to just head out to a staging.

01:04:32:25 - 01:04:34:28
Jared
Area out there. But yeah, we.

01:04:34:28 - 01:04:40:05
Jared
Have to assemble resources. But I would typically say like on a moderate climb like that.

01:04:40:07 - 01:04:41:27
Jared
We're going to be moving and.

01:04:41:27 - 01:04:43:27
Jared
Getting into the area easily in under an.

01:04:43:27 - 01:04:46:12
Jared
Hour. Okay.

01:04:46:15 - 01:04:58:05
Jared
Again, we're talking about these like moderate type injuries in under an hour. We'll be mobilized in, in the area, whether that's at the trailhead or at a staging area where we can start flying people into for access.

01:04:58:07 - 01:04:58:27
Jared
So then the other.

01:04:58:27 - 01:05:00:11
Jared
Variables kick in and that is.

01:05:00:11 - 01:05:02:11
Jared
Like, where are you? Like, what.

01:05:02:11 - 01:05:08:03
Jared
Route are you on? Are you just doing some sport climbing? You know, like in Black Corridor where we can easily just hike back.

01:05:08:03 - 01:05:08:20
Jared
Into you.

01:05:08:20 - 01:05:11:24
Jared
Or you up on one of the bigger walls in the canyons where.

01:05:11:27 - 01:05:13:24
Jared
You know, we've got to fly into you.

01:05:13:24 - 01:05:22:16
Jared
And then it comes into play as far as like, where are you? On the wall? Are you dead center or are you closer toward the bottom or it's faster for us to climb?

01:05:22:18 - 01:05:35:02
Jared
Are you closer to the top where it's faster us to get inserted at the top and come down to you? So those variables come into play, too. But I mean, hypothetically, let's say you're on. Let's say you're on Dark Shadows, right? Just regular dark shadows and you're on like the third.

01:05:35:02 - 01:05:37:09
Jared
Pitch in that beautiful corner.

01:05:37:12 - 01:05:39:27
Jared
And you break an ankle and stuff like that.

01:05:39:29 - 01:05:42:01
Jared
We can get to you to the.

01:05:42:01 - 01:05:47:03
Jared
Base of that, climb easily in under an hour, and then a couple of us could easily start climbing up.

01:05:47:03 - 01:05:50:12
Jared
To you. And let's be honest, we could probably access you probably.

01:05:50:12 - 01:05:52:23
Jared
30 minutes from the ground, climbing up to you on that.

01:05:52:23 - 01:05:53:27
Jared
On a climb like that.

01:05:54:00 - 01:05:57:12
Jared
So again, you can see where like all these variables and stuff come into play.

01:05:57:14 - 01:06:00:18
Jared
We are one of the.

01:06:00:18 - 01:06:04:14
Jared
Few teams in the country and don't quote me on this. It's just not a very common thing.

01:06:04:16 - 01:06:05:25
Jared
We have the ability.

01:06:05:25 - 01:06:08:23
Jared
To access and put insert climbers directly on the.

01:06:08:23 - 01:06:10:08
Jared
Wall in some.

01:06:10:08 - 01:06:27:02
Jared
Cases. So on certain climbs where we have ledge systems that have anchors on, on which a lot of the climbs out here do, and if you know if there's enough blade clearance, there's a lot of times where we can actually hoist rescuers directly into the wall. We use a very specialized piece of equipment from Petzel. It's called a Lazard.

01:06:27:04 - 01:06:44:26
Jared
And what it allows us to do is I can just direct attach myself as I'm hanging on the end of, like, our hoist cable to an anchor that I can quickly build on the wall, like our pilots are skilled enough to where they can keep that helicopter stable. They can hoist me down. I can get close enough to the wall where I can literally, you know, preferably bolts.

01:06:44:26 - 01:06:53:21
Jared
I can fire into a couple of bolts, equalize and anchor real quick, and then I can attach the Lazard, which allows me to attach myself and the helicopter.

01:06:53:23 - 01:06:54:01
Jared
On.

01:06:54:01 - 01:06:58:12
Jared
A releasable system, which sounds very convoluted and terrifying.

01:06:58:15 - 01:06:59:07
Jared
But the big thing.

01:06:59:07 - 01:07:06:28
Jared
Is, is that we don't ever want the helicopter attached to a wall, right? That's why most teams aren't trying to, like, insert climbers directly on a route.

01:07:07:00 - 01:07:07:15
Jared
But it is.

01:07:07:15 - 01:07:16:25
Jared
One thing that gives us an advantage, and we do use it quite frequently. I think I've used it three times in the last six months where I've been able to access right above or right a below climbers that are on a.

01:07:16:25 - 01:07:18:00
Jared
Route and be.

01:07:18:00 - 01:07:20:03
Jared
Able to just go into an anchor.

01:07:20:05 - 01:07:20:23
Jared
Quickly.

01:07:20:23 - 01:07:30:17
Jared
Detach from the helicopter. And now I'm on the wall, I've got all my ropes and stuff with me. My partner gets brought in or a volunteer. I can get them in quick to my anchor to.

01:07:30:19 - 01:07:32:11
Jared
And then we're only, you know.

01:07:32:13 - 01:07:39:18
Jared
70m above you at that point, like a rope length. You know what I mean? So now we can just wrap down to you. So in situations like that where we're able to.

01:07:39:18 - 01:07:40:08
Jared
Do, you.

01:07:40:08 - 01:07:48:11
Jared
Know, those kind of inserts we can be to even quicker sometimes we can actually be to you on the wall in less than an hour. And that's not unheard of.

01:07:48:13 - 01:07:49:12
Jared
But again it's all.

01:07:49:12 - 01:07:52:09
Jared
Dependent on so many different variables on the climb.

01:07:52:12 - 01:07:53:11
Jared
But yeah, even on.

01:07:53:12 - 01:07:58:24
Jared
On something like that where you're injured and it's, you know, not life threatening, we're still hustling. We're getting to you.

01:07:58:28 - 01:08:16:17
Kyle
was my next question. Are you changing the the speed and tactics based on the severity like the one, two, three like are you treating them all the same in terms of like how you respond to them or like, are you allocating more facilities and taking it a bit more like time constraints for these more critical

01:08:16:19 - 01:08:23:22
Jared
Sure. That's an excellent question. And the short answer is both. We're treating them the same and the level of care that we're going to provide you.

01:08:23:25 - 01:08:25:04
Jared
But a level one like.

01:08:25:04 - 01:08:27:26
Jared
The one we had this past, was that Saturday.

01:08:28:02 - 01:08:28:19
Jared
The like the one.

01:08:28:19 - 01:08:32:00
Jared
We had on Saturday. That would that's a true level one.

01:08:32:02 - 01:08:46:25
Jared
On something like that, I'm using like, you know, I parked my March police vehicle out front of your house. Like, I have lights and sirens like any other police vehicle. I'm using those just like it's an emergency because it's life threatening. And I'm using that to get me as close as I can to you or to that helicopter.

01:08:46:29 - 01:08:52:07
Jared
And then we are getting on that helicopter as fast as possible. We're conducting our mission and our safety brief on the.

01:08:52:07 - 01:08:53:25
Jared
Way to you to just.

01:08:53:25 - 01:08:57:07
Jared
Go like, you know, full stop, get everything.

01:08:57:09 - 01:08:57:21
Jared
To.

01:08:57:21 - 01:09:01:25
Jared
You as efficiently and safely as possible. But we are definitely.

01:09:02:02 - 01:09:02:20
Jared
Going at a.

01:09:02:20 - 01:09:06:01
Jared
Different pace than we would be as opposed to, you know, a broken ankle, broken.

01:09:06:01 - 01:09:07:20
Jared
Ankle. You know.

01:09:07:20 - 01:09:18:04
Jared
We are always concerned about our safety too. And so if we don't have to push it because let's be honest, you know, driving around with lights and sirens is dangerous, you know, I mean, so if I can't arrive and this is.

01:09:18:07 - 01:09:19:10
Jared
This is any.

01:09:19:10 - 01:09:27:22
Jared
Police officers that will watch this on our department or to laugh when I say this, but it's like a it's a common phrase that we have on our department. If you can't arrive, you can't assist. But it's so true, right?

01:09:27:22 - 01:09:31:10
Jared
Like, if I get hurt on the way to you right now.

01:09:31:10 - 01:09:33:13
Jared
I'm just a casualty. And now that's going to delay your care.

01:09:33:13 - 01:09:38:25
Jared
So yeah, we do up the ante a little bit and expedite the.

01:09:38:25 - 01:09:39:29
Jared
Process when it comes.

01:09:39:29 - 01:09:41:07
Jared
To how.

01:09:41:07 - 01:09:50:19
Jared
Severe the injuries and stuff are. But the once we get there, the level of care that we provide you is going to be the same. Like, you know what I mean? If that if that kind of answers your question.

01:09:50:27 - 01:09:55:14
Kyle
Yeah. It makes sense. Makes sense.

01:09:55:16 - 01:10:16:29
Kyle
What injury like for for us as climbers when we get injured. Like what? What are some injuries that look worse than they actually are? Things that might actually cause a bit more panic and terror but actually aren't like it immediately life threatening versus ones that might go unnoticed or look a bit minor to an untrained eye, but are actually more critical than we think.

01:10:17:01 - 01:10:17:13
Jared
Yeah.

01:10:17:14 - 01:10:21:14
Jared
I'm that's that's an excellent question too. Broken bones freak.

01:10:21:14 - 01:10:23:09
Jared
People out right?

01:10:23:11 - 01:10:24:29
Jared
Dislocations freak.

01:10:24:29 - 01:10:27:18
Jared
People out. I think.

01:10:27:18 - 01:10:28:24
Jared
Starting with the ones that.

01:10:28:24 - 01:10:31:14
Jared
Are.

01:10:31:17 - 01:10:44:05
Jared
Minor. But like, maybe to you seem way more severe. I would start with those and that would be like, you know, a dislocated knee. I had one of those in Ice Box Canyon where a dude was, you know, climbing on a on a climb and they're, on the refrigerator wall.

01:10:44:07 - 01:10:45:12
Jared
And literally he's.

01:10:45:12 - 01:10:47:24
Jared
You know, doing a drop me and totally dislocates his.

01:10:47:24 - 01:10:48:22
Jared
Knee and.

01:10:48:22 - 01:10:49:10
Jared
Causes him to.

01:10:49:10 - 01:10:52:29
Jared
Fall and his partner lose his like, oh my gosh.

01:10:52:29 - 01:10:57:23
Jared
Is, you know, you literally calls in and I quote says, my partner just like exploded his femur.

01:10:57:25 - 01:11:02:03
Jared
So you know, oh shoot. Level one. So we get out there quick.

01:11:02:03 - 01:11:04:20
Jared
I'm getting hoisted into him. And as I'm getting hoisted and I.

01:11:04:20 - 01:11:06:05
Jared
See the.

01:11:06:07 - 01:11:08:07
Jared
I see the guy, like waving me down, freaking out the.

01:11:08:07 - 01:11:09:23
Jared
Player he's on like.

01:11:09:23 - 01:11:10:24
Jared
The ledge at the base of.

01:11:10:24 - 01:11:11:11
Jared
This root.

01:11:11:11 - 01:11:24:20
Jared
And I'm like, you got, you know, I'm like trying to yell over the helicopter and he's waving at me and stuff like that. So finally the helicopter kind of gets out of there so I can hear, and I'm like, hey, man, like, where is he at? And he's like, oh, he's right there. He's rappelling down. And sure enough, I look up and the injured party's rappelling.

01:11:24:20 - 01:11:28:19
Jared
Down like, you know, so I talk to him, hey, like, are you okay?

01:11:28:20 - 01:11:32:10
Jared
You know, like, as he's coming down, I get up on scramble up on the ledge and he just repels right down to me.

01:11:32:10 - 01:11:39:02
Jared
And he's like, yeah, man, you know, it was just crazy. My my knee exploded and now it's fine pop back into place. And I'm like.

01:11:39:04 - 01:11:40:10
Jared
Who has the broken femur?

01:11:40:11 - 01:11:43:21
Jared
You know. So again it's I'm not.

01:11:43:21 - 01:11:56:02
Jared
Saying they were wrong for calling like from the Blairs perspective. And they had very limited cell service. The only thing he was able to get out is like my partner's femur just exploded, which is a life threatening injury. And that kind of answers both of your questions too.

01:11:56:05 - 01:11:58:25
Jared
So, you know, we that's what we think when we get out there.

01:11:58:25 - 01:12:05:11
Jared
And it turns out it was he just dislocated his knee, which hurts like, you know, crazy. And it looks gnarly, let's admit.

01:12:05:11 - 01:12:08:07
Jared
But at the end of the day, you know, it popped.

01:12:08:07 - 01:12:11:04
Jared
Back in on his own as he kind of just started working his way down the wall.

01:12:11:04 - 01:12:13:06
Jared
And he was still flew him out because.

01:12:13:06 - 01:12:15:13
Jared
He couldn't walk. I mean, his his knee was hammered.

01:12:15:13 - 01:12:16:19
Jared
And like, you know, anybody.

01:12:16:19 - 01:12:31:28
Jared
That's hiked back into that canyon knows that that approach is pretty burly. We don't want somebody, you know, further injuring themselves. So it's just ways your for us to extract them with the hoist and get them out of there and get him to an ambulance. But that was a that was a good example of one of those situations where the injury looked way worse than it was.

01:12:31:28 - 01:12:34:09
Jared
It just looks bad.

01:12:34:11 - 01:12:43:06
Jared
But it really not that bad. Can it be for sure? Like you can do some bad stuff with dislocations? And that's the tricky thing with medical stuff is there's so much stuff that can happen inside of our.

01:12:43:06 - 01:12:44:28
Jared
Body that like you can't see.

01:12:44:28 - 01:12:53:19
Jared
With the naked eye. And unfortunately, a lot of times you can't even treat out there like even a dislocation can interrupt a lot of nerves, a lot of vessels, and start causing some serious damage.

01:12:53:22 - 01:12:55:09
Jared
Stuff that is on like.

01:12:55:09 - 01:12:56:18
Jared
The other end of that spectrum.

01:12:56:18 - 01:12:57:22
Jared
That maybe doesn't look that.

01:12:57:22 - 01:13:02:20
Jared
Bad, but is way worse. Saturday would be a good example of that.

01:13:02:23 - 01:13:03:04
Jared
Yeah.

01:13:03:06 - 01:13:09:11
Jared
Head injuries, neck and spine injuries. Those are those are the ones that are terrifying internal bleeding.

01:13:09:11 - 01:13:10:29
Jared
So let's let's be.

01:13:10:29 - 01:13:25:27
Jared
Honest, climbing. We already said it's dangerous, but falls can be traumatic. Like you can do some massive damage to some organs that are not that well protected. Liver and spleen, things like that. Like you fall wrong and smack one of the sides of your body and stuff like that.

01:13:25:29 - 01:13:28:22
Jared
And you could feel like you broke a rib, but you might be, you know.

01:13:28:22 - 01:13:34:24
Jared
Bleeding internally from like, your spleen or your liver and that's that's life threatening. I mean, you can lose all your blood in your.

01:13:34:24 - 01:13:40:22
Jared
Abdomen literally without even knowing it. And from the outside at that.

01:13:40:22 - 01:13:44:06
Jared
At first you might not even be able to tell. You might just have somebody that's in pain.

01:13:44:06 - 01:13:45:05
Jared
And complaining like, oh man.

01:13:45:05 - 01:13:51:04
Jared
My rib really hurts or something like that. And underneath that, that spleens just, you know, just leaking.

01:13:51:06 - 01:13:51:19
Jared
So those.

01:13:51:19 - 01:13:52:16
Jared
Are the ones where it's.

01:13:52:16 - 01:13:54:09
Jared
Like, those are tricky, right?

01:13:54:09 - 01:13:56:16
Jared
And even as a climber or, you know, as the.

01:13:56:16 - 01:14:01:28
Jared
Blair like man, often I think he's okay, let me just call and have a bite. My buddy.

01:14:01:28 - 01:14:04:02
Jared
Fell and he's complaining this side hurts, but.

01:14:04:04 - 01:14:04:16
Jared
He seems.

01:14:04:16 - 01:14:06:04
Jared
Okay. He's just in some pain and stuff.

01:14:06:04 - 01:14:10:04
Jared
Like that and nobody knows. So it's tough.

01:14:10:04 - 01:14:13:09
Jared
To say on things like that. And then again, I'll come back to.

01:14:13:09 - 01:14:14:00
Jared
The the.

01:14:14:00 - 01:14:19:24
Jared
Head injuries. Head injuries are another one that, oftentimes look way worse than they are.

01:14:19:25 - 01:14:20:12
Jared
Right.

01:14:20:15 - 01:14:24:18
Jared
So first of all, wear a helmet, right? Like my son is an avid climber.

01:14:24:18 - 01:14:26:22
Jared
17 he is.

01:14:26:22 - 01:14:34:21
Jared
Like, he's he's the nerd at the crag. Sport climbing with the helmet on. And I love it. And he does it every time. He'll send me pictures and he's always got his helmet on. I'm so proud of him because I'm.

01:14:34:21 - 01:14:35:03
Jared
Like.

01:14:35:06 - 01:14:36:24
Jared
Dude, even sport climbing.

01:14:36:26 - 01:14:39:26
Jared
You never know, right? But even with.

01:14:39:26 - 01:14:47:09
Jared
Helmets on, you can still get head injuries. But the thing about the head is that it bleeds so much like how many times have, you know, people cut their head and there's a blood everywhere, and it's.

01:14:47:09 - 01:14:48:08
Jared
Just a little.

01:14:48:09 - 01:14:49:20
Jared
Bit of blood can sometimes look like a.

01:14:49:20 - 01:14:54:16
Jared
Lot of blood. So a lot of times people are like, oh yeah. He split his head open and there's just blood everywhere.

01:14:54:16 - 01:14:59:10
Jared
And it's just seems like it's super traumatic. And sometimes it's really not. It's just a cut on the.

01:14:59:10 - 01:15:00:07
Jared
Head, you know?

01:15:00:07 - 01:15:00:20
Jared
So

01:15:00:22 - 01:15:03:01
Kyle
I would imagine like losing consciousness is probably

01:15:03:04 - 01:15:04:02
Jared
100%.

01:15:04:04 - 01:15:06:26
Jared
Yeah. So that's a good that's that's.

01:15:06:28 - 01:15:07:28
Jared
Pretty definitive.

01:15:07:28 - 01:15:09:21
Jared
On not definitive.

01:15:09:21 - 01:15:15:21
Jared
But that's a good indicator of more severe head injury than not. Right. So I'm glad you brought that up.

01:15:15:23 - 01:15:16:24
Jared
You hit your head.

01:15:16:24 - 01:15:23:05
Jared
It's bleeding and you lost consciousness. That's that's 901 emergency type stuff. You hit your head. You scratched it.

01:15:23:05 - 01:15:25:13
Jared
It's bleeding a little bit. You feel fine.

01:15:25:13 - 01:15:29:02
Jared
You're not just. You're not seeing stars. You know, your pupils and stuff look normal.

01:15:29:05 - 01:15:32:01
Jared
Okay? Maybe we, you know, we're still want to call and get help, but maybe.

01:15:32:01 - 01:15:38:16
Jared
Not nearly as critical. Again, it's so hard for people to kind of triage that kind of stuff out there on the wall. So again, I would just say.

01:15:38:16 - 01:15:40:19
Jared
Like, call, we'll walk.

01:15:40:19 - 01:15:48:06
Jared
You through it on the phone and talk to you about the injuries and stuff like that, and we'll try to make the best assessment what we can and try to calm you down when we can, when we have service and stuff.

01:15:48:06 - 01:15:50:15
Jared
Like that. But yes, I mean.

01:15:50:17 - 01:15:52:01
Jared
As far as that's concerned, I think that's.

01:15:52:01 - 01:15:52:07
Jared
Like.

01:15:52:12 - 01:15:55:28
Jared
Some pretty good examples of kind of both of the both ends of that spectrum.

01:15:55:28 - 01:15:58:01
Jared
But yeah, the ones, the ones.

01:15:58:01 - 01:16:04:27
Jared
On the internal or the neck and spine injuries are the ones that really concern us because those, those can be sleepers.

01:16:05:00 - 01:16:22:20
Kyle
Fragile and also like we really, really suspect for more damage by movement or paralysis or permanent damage moving forward. What what do people do, like in the immediate aftermath of an accident that typically makes things worse?

01:16:22:23 - 01:16:23:29
Jared
move.

01:16:24:01 - 01:16:26:17
Jared
And what I mean by that is we will get people that.

01:16:26:17 - 01:16:39:27
Jared
Call in and say, I'm here, and we start sending everybody there. And oftentimes this is the ones that don't have cell service. People want cell service. So they'll call in 911. They'll say, here's my coordinates, I'm hurt. I need your.

01:16:39:27 - 01:16:40:16
Jared
Help.

01:16:40:18 - 01:16:42:25
Jared
Whether they're climbing, they're hiking, whatever.

01:16:42:28 - 01:16:43:25
Jared
We get out there.

01:16:44:00 - 01:17:01:15
Jared
And they're nowhere to be found because they went hiking off somewhere else or descended or went to the top. And now we can't find them, but they're still injured, and they're out searching for more cell service, and we can't find them. So like, that's that's quite honestly the worst thing you can possibly do if you call for help.

01:17:01:17 - 01:17:02:04
Jared
We need you to.

01:17:02:04 - 01:17:20:10
Jared
Stay right where you are when you called for help, give us as much details. If all you were able to do was get a 911 text out or pop a PLB. You know, Papa, Garmin, stay in that spot because that's where we're coming. If you move from there and you slipped and fell and weren't able to give us another update on your location, we might never find you.

01:17:20:10 - 01:17:21:16
Jared
And that's unfortunately the.

01:17:21:16 - 01:17:24:20
Jared
Reality of it. We have lost people that we've.

01:17:24:20 - 01:17:33:18
Jared
Gone out to look for, and they weren't where they said they were. And we'll find them later several miles away. Or oftentimes what happens is somebody else finds them later and unfortunately they've expired.

01:17:33:18 - 01:17:34:18
Jared
At that point.

01:17:34:20 - 01:17:38:09
Jared
So if you're going to call for help, just stay where you are.

01:17:38:14 - 01:17:39:24
Jared
That's the only way.

01:17:39:24 - 01:17:40:22
Jared
We're going to know how to find.

01:17:40:22 - 01:17:41:11
Jared
You.

01:17:41:13 - 01:17:58:06
Kyle
on that note of stay where you are. Also, if you write like an itinerary and you put it on your car, stick to that itinerary. Or at least. Yeah, follow it. Or at least be like, okay, if we don't go here, this is our backup route or this is our second backup route, so you least have like, okay, if he's not here, he's here.

01:17:58:06 - 01:18:05:27
Kyle
If he's not here, he's here, I think don't just do something that you haven't told anybody where you're going or what you're doing because like, how is anybody supposed to find

01:18:05:29 - 01:18:07:20
Jared
Totally. And that's super common in Red Rock.

01:18:07:20 - 01:18:10:02
Jared
People will like go up a climb way quicker.

01:18:10:02 - 01:18:13:24
Jared
Than they thought I do. We still have still got several hours. Nobody's on.

01:18:13:27 - 01:18:14:08
Jared
This.

01:18:14:08 - 01:18:16:19
Jared
Popular climb. Let's go do that one now too. You know what I mean?

01:18:16:19 - 01:18:18:27
Jared
So if you told, you know.

01:18:18:27 - 01:18:21:22
Jared
Your your significant other, whomever at home that you were.

01:18:21:22 - 01:18:23:06
Jared
Climbing, you know.

01:18:23:08 - 01:18:26:26
Jared
Prince of Darkness, but now you're way over on, like, you know, dream wild turkeys or something.

01:18:26:26 - 01:18:30:16
Jared
I don't know, you know what I mean? Like, we're only going to we're going to immediately.

01:18:30:16 - 01:18:32:06
Jared
Start looking for you where you said you were.

01:18:32:06 - 01:18:36:20
Jared
Going to be. And if you've moved off of that, I mean, shoot. And the other.

01:18:36:20 - 01:18:40:09
Jared
Big thing too, is on that line too, is give descriptions.

01:18:40:11 - 01:18:41:09
Jared
Like write.

01:18:41:09 - 01:18:44:20
Jared
Down what you're wearing. Kind of like to Dean's point in his podcast.

01:18:44:23 - 01:18:46:02
Jared
Let us know what quite.

01:18:46:02 - 01:18:48:02
Jared
Clothes and stuff you're wearing because.

01:18:48:05 - 01:18:50:23
Jared
Red rocks popular like we go.

01:18:50:23 - 01:18:58:06
Jared
Out there all the time and we're like, is that our party? Or is that our party? Which one of those is our party? Nobody's waving at us, right. Check the next one. You know what I mean? Because, like, it's.

01:18:58:06 - 01:19:02:06
Jared
So busy out there and I hate to say it, but there's.

01:19:02:13 - 01:19:07:09
Jared
A lot of times where we got to rescue people, and people are truly heard on the wall, and you'll see somebody on the route right next to them just.

01:19:07:12 - 01:19:09:24
Jared
Climbing like nothing's going on. And maybe they don't know.

01:19:09:25 - 01:19:12:13
Jared
And that's fine because it's big walls out there, but sometimes.

01:19:12:15 - 01:19:12:29
Jared
They do.

01:19:12:29 - 01:19:30:01
Jared
But they're still doing their thing, or they have to keep moving because they're in the middle of a climb. So sometimes it, you know, so descriptions and stuff like that, if you can get that kind of information, whether it's through leaving an itinerary or giving it, when you call us, you know, we're going to ask, but try to give as much of that as you can in case you lose the ability to communicate with us.

01:19:30:02 - 01:19:30:19
Jared
It's just going to.

01:19:30:24 - 01:19:31:02
Jared
Help.

01:19:31:02 - 01:19:33:10
Jared
Expedite us getting to you. So

01:19:33:13 - 01:19:50:21
Kyle
Do you want to walk us through, what happened on Saturday a little bit now that we're kind of on this, this kind of topic of of more severe accidents? I think, it's it's been on the tip of people's tongue. Most people are very interested in kind of what's going on. So, I'd be interested to hear your perspective of the rescue.

01:19:50:21 - 01:19:53:02
Jared
Yeah. This one, this one was, this is a big.

01:19:53:02 - 01:19:56:26
Jared
One for sure. It's made out, I think national news at this point.

01:19:56:26 - 01:19:57:24
Jared
Actually,

01:19:57:26 - 01:19:58:21
Jared
This was a full.

01:19:58:21 - 01:20:00:01
Jared
On what we would.

01:20:00:01 - 01:20:10:08
Jared
Consider, like level one, lead climb, rescue. So just to kind of break it down. So Saturday, you know, just a couple of days ago that, you know, time of this recording.

01:20:10:11 - 01:20:13:27
Jared
We had a very experienced couple of climbers on a.

01:20:13:27 - 01:20:15:02
Jared
Pretty.

01:20:15:04 - 01:20:22:11
Jared
Pretty stout climbing route out in Red Rock. So they were on a climb called Dream Safari, which,

01:20:22:14 - 01:20:23:23
Jared
There's been a lot of.

01:20:23:26 - 01:20:29:23
Jared
A lot of funny comments about this. They were on technically, I think, starting the second pitch of Dream Safari.

01:20:29:26 - 01:20:30:02
Jared
But.

01:20:30:02 - 01:20:43:26
Jared
People don't understand that. That's an extension to another popular route called Risky Business over there, on the Mescalero formation. Okay. So kind of, I think another popular climb that people are very familiar with is Dark Shadows. So they were just climbers left of that.

01:20:43:28 - 01:20:48:20
Jared
Very beautiful blank, just patina wall. That route.

01:20:48:23 - 01:20:59:20
Jared
Depending on which guidebook or source you use, mountain project, whatever the case may be, does typically get an R rating. And it. This is another piece of advice I have to people. If it's wobbling between PG 13 and.

01:20:59:20 - 01:21:02:00
Jared
R, just go with R, just assume.

01:21:02:00 - 01:21:05:09
Jared
That the route you're about to get on is R and the.

01:21:05:11 - 01:21:05:23
Jared
The.

01:21:05:23 - 01:21:10:14
Jared
Victim on this this story that we're talking about right now, I would definitely agree with you on that because where he.

01:21:10:14 - 01:21:12:14
Jared
Ended up falling.

01:21:12:17 - 01:21:16:22
Jared
He was in the crux of that climb of that extension.

01:21:16:24 - 01:21:19:23
Jared
And it was an R-rated section. He had placed some.

01:21:19:23 - 01:21:21:27
Jared
Pro I.

01:21:21:27 - 01:21:22:08
Jared
Talked.

01:21:22:08 - 01:21:25:02
Jared
With him, you know, he, he's.

01:21:25:06 - 01:21:32:26
Jared
He's uncertain. We'll kind of get into his injuries and stuff and a little bit here. He's uncertain, exactly what happened. But he believes possibly like.

01:21:32:26 - 01:21:34:00
Jared
A foothold blew.

01:21:34:00 - 01:21:39:13
Jared
Or just his foot blew one of the two things, but he fell without even knowing he was going to fall.

01:21:39:16 - 01:21:40:14
Jared
Somehow.

01:21:40:14 - 01:21:49:09
Jared
And I'm not clear exactly. We did the best we could to try to figure out the how in the why in the limited time we had as we were rappelling down to him.

01:21:49:12 - 01:21:50:01
Jared
At least.

01:21:50:01 - 01:21:52:13
Jared
One, possibly two pieces of his pro.

01:21:52:13 - 01:21:55:10
Jared
Failed.

01:21:55:13 - 01:22:06:27
Jared
It's thin protection in there. So he believed he had placed, like a black totem, you know, a small camping device. And, prior to that, he had placed a small nut.

01:22:06:29 - 01:22:09:02
Jared
The nut was still on the wall.

01:22:09:05 - 01:22:10:24
Jared
Still had an alpine.

01:22:10:26 - 01:22:13:16
Jared
Sling hanging from it, but it had no,

01:22:13:18 - 01:22:19:06
Jared
Like, rope side carabiner. So it was basically just a nut in a crack. It had a Caribbean, a clip.

01:22:19:06 - 01:22:20:04
Jared
To the the.

01:22:20:04 - 01:22:31:11
Jared
Nut, which is, you know, like for most climbers. No, but like a passive piece of protection, just kind of wedged in a crack and then a long single length sling hanging there. But as I was approaching the victim, I noticed there was no carabiner.

01:22:31:11 - 01:22:32:08
Jared
Hanging from it.

01:22:32:08 - 01:22:47:27
Jared
So whether the Caribbean or failed, that somehow unclipped, you know, alpine draws, it's it's difficult to back clip those. But it can still happen. But who knows. Any number of things could have happened. But just just kind of the details of what I saw out there.

01:22:47:29 - 01:22:49:13
Jared
So because of that, at least.

01:22:49:13 - 01:22:52:15
Jared
One, possibly two pieces of gear failing.

01:22:52:17 - 01:22:53:15
Jared
He, we.

01:22:53:15 - 01:22:56:00
Jared
Estimate, probably fell at least 40 to.

01:22:56:00 - 01:23:00:00
Jared
50ft when he fell. You know, talking.

01:23:00:00 - 01:23:04:28
Jared
With his bilayer, it sounds like I think his head took a majority.

01:23:05:02 - 01:23:06:05
Jared
Of the.

01:23:06:05 - 01:23:24:22
Jared
Initial impact of his fall when he swung back into the rock, it, shattered his helmet. He was wearing a helmet. And I'll say right now, the only reason this man is still alive or this person is still alive, is because he was wearing a climbing helmet. He's already kind of come public and stated who he is, but I'll leave his name and everything out of it.

01:23:24:25 - 01:23:42:28
Jared
Very, like I said earlier, very experienced climber. That's I think that's the point that's worth driving home here, too, is that this can absolutely happen to anybody. This wasn't some, you know, inexperienced guy out there doing dumb stuff, making mistakes, like he knew what he was doing. He was climbing. But again, climbing is is risky.

01:23:43:00 - 01:23:44:14
Jared
So he fell,

01:23:44:17 - 01:23:46:23
Jared
Completely shattered his helmet.

01:23:46:25 - 01:23:47:20
Jared
Got two.

01:23:47:20 - 01:23:50:07
Jared
Severe lacerations to the point where I could actually see his.

01:23:50:07 - 01:23:51:14
Jared
Scalp.

01:23:51:17 - 01:24:02:21
Jared
On the top and side of his head. And, also sustained some neck and back injuries during it. Initially, it was reported he potentially could have broken a.

01:24:02:21 - 01:24:04:24
Jared
Leg, as well. That.

01:24:04:24 - 01:24:08:02
Jared
Was later determined that that did not happen.

01:24:08:04 - 01:24:10:07
Jared
His, at when he fell, he.

01:24:10:07 - 01:24:13:19
Jared
Lost consciousness for, his Blaire believes for approximately a.

01:24:13:19 - 01:24:14:27
Jared
Minute.

01:24:14:29 - 01:24:25:08
Jared
And then his Blaire, a very experienced climber, was able to lower him down back to him because he was less than, you know, a half of rope length out. So he had plenty of rope.

01:24:25:11 - 01:24:26:11
Jared
To be able to get the.

01:24:26:11 - 01:24:32:12
Jared
Climber back down to where he was belaying him from, which is a very small stance, stance, a ledge approximately.

01:24:32:12 - 01:24:38:04
Jared
One foot, maybe a foot and a half wide. He, the.

01:24:38:05 - 01:24:50:23
Jared
Blaire got him down to the ledge, immediately took off the, his shirt and, started applying direct pressure as he was hanging there on the wall. He did bleed quite a bit from his head. I was kind of talking about earlier. Head injuries bleed a lot.

01:24:50:23 - 01:24:53:04
Jared
This bled a lot. Like we.

01:24:53:06 - 01:24:56:05
Jared
We got spun up around noon. I think it was.

01:24:56:05 - 01:24:58:24
Jared
Called in at, I think he fell.

01:24:58:24 - 01:25:02:10
Jared
An animal was called right at 1150, and we were spun up immediately.

01:25:02:10 - 01:25:04:16
Jared
Level one. I was.

01:25:04:21 - 01:25:19:07
Jared
Very close to the hanger, so I immediately went to the hanger with another one of our officers. We quickly boarded the helicopter and started flying out. We were the first two to arrive in the area. And just to kind of give you some context, we were able to spot them immediately from a distance because of the amount of blood.

01:25:19:08 - 01:25:20:05
Jared
That he lost.

01:25:20:05 - 01:25:36:29
Jared
It was quite apparent. It looked like somebody had painted the route. Because when he did lose consciousness after his fall, he did hang there for a second while his Blaire kind of got things kind of figured out. And as he was lowering him, he kept bleeding down the wall as he came. So it was very easy to find them very quickly.

01:25:36:29 - 01:25:38:16
Jared
They ended up being.

01:25:38:16 - 01:25:39:27
Jared
Pretty much mid-face.

01:25:39:27 - 01:25:43:25
Jared
On this wall, which all told.

01:25:43:27 - 01:25:51:07
Jared
I mean, you're well over 1000ft to the top of that formation, like well over 1000ft. We were able to find a ledge approximately 500ft above.

01:25:51:07 - 01:25:52:13
Jared
Them that.

01:25:52:13 - 01:26:14:23
Jared
We could safely insert our smaller helicopter. So there was two of us on that we were able to insert at the top of that ledge. We call it one skidding, but we just kind of park one of the, the skids or the the two stances coming off the bottom of the helicopter. They'll just park one of those on the side, kind of position the helicopter in a way that we can climb out of it and get onto the ledge.

01:26:14:25 - 01:26:15:20
Jared
Immediately two.

01:26:15:20 - 01:26:22:17
Jared
Of us started making access, so we just built a quick natural anchor on some boulders up there, started fixing some lines, and started rappelling down.

01:26:22:19 - 01:26:23:07
Jared
You know, I.

01:26:23:08 - 01:26:24:18
Jared
Always bring a massive med kit.

01:26:24:18 - 01:26:26:03
Jared
With me. I had.

01:26:26:10 - 01:26:43:20
Jared
One of our lead climb volunteers with us as well. So we always kind of entrust them with our rope access and their climbing experience to establish access for us, because they can do it very quick. So our volunteer, he started just basically just putting down a bunch of fixed ropes so we could get access as fast as possible.

01:26:43:23 - 01:26:51:22
Jared
We had some amazing climbers on the wall that day, not the ones that were involved, but just all over that wall. There's some very popular routes.

01:26:51:25 - 01:26:53:01
Jared
We had people allowing.

01:26:53:01 - 01:27:11:01
Jared
Us use their, anchors that they had built just for access. There was two gals that were at the top of, Dark Shadows full like towards the top. There's a nice big ledge up there. They had a beautiful anchor built up. We were able to just fire into that real quick to fix a line and get access down to them, and then beef that anchor up for the rest of our party.

01:27:11:08 - 01:27:15:08
Jared
So while we're making initial access, we've got the helicopter shuttling more people.

01:27:15:08 - 01:27:17:19
Jared
We ended up bringing a total of.

01:27:17:19 - 01:27:24:16
Jared
Six people onto the wall. Six we brought three, four officers, three officers and our sergeant, actually.

01:27:24:18 - 01:27:26:28
Jared
And,

01:27:27:00 - 01:27:38:09
Jared
One volunteer on the wall so that math doesn't math. That was five. So we had five, rescuers on the wall. And then we shuttled three more rescuers, into the base later.

01:27:38:09 - 01:27:38:27
Jared
For.

01:27:38:27 - 01:27:41:21
Jared
Receiving.

01:27:41:23 - 01:27:42:06
Jared
So.

01:27:42:06 - 01:27:47:15
Jared
Our volunteer and I access the patient immediately as soon as I got to him, or as we were accessing to a.

01:27:47:15 - 01:27:50:21
Jared
Local guide. Another again, I can't, you.

01:27:50:21 - 01:28:14:12
Jared
Know, talk about our climbing community enough. We've got some great people out here. There was a local guide that had a client on the climb below them. Risky business. He was able to climb up to them and he's, you know, got some experience being a guide, as well as, like wilderness first aid, first responder type stuff where he was able to start, you know, addressing some of the wounds, putting pressure on and getting the bleeding to stop in his head and then get the patient completely stabilized.

01:28:14:14 - 01:28:15:26
Jared
So we had that.

01:28:15:26 - 01:28:36:05
Jared
Happening as we were making access, which is just all certain things that just fell into place that really, favored a good outcome for, you know, our victim on this one. Again, as I made contact with both of them, kind of got a story of what was happening and then immediately started doing my medical assessment on, the climber that fell.

01:28:36:08 - 01:28:36:18
Jared
He.

01:28:36:18 - 01:29:01:07
Jared
Was he was in a bad way. Like I said earlier, some lacerations on her head were were immediately noticeable. Bleeding was controlled on those, which is a good thing. Like, obviously massive hemorrhaging and stuff like that is one of the first things that can kill you. So we always look for that first. As I was doing my assessment of the rest of his body, it was very quickly apparent that he had some spinal trauma going on, specifically in his neck and in his lower spine.

01:29:01:09 - 01:29:03:02
Jared
So, you know,

01:29:03:05 - 01:29:07:19
Jared
I don't know how much medical experience or how much, you know, things like that you've had to do, but.

01:29:07:19 - 01:29:09:07
Jared
Doing medical.

01:29:09:07 - 01:29:10:06
Jared
Assessment, you.

01:29:10:06 - 01:29:11:05
Jared
Know.

01:29:11:07 - 01:29:15:10
Jared
Almost, you know, 600ft off the ground on the side of a cliff can be.

01:29:15:12 - 01:29:18:21
Jared
Can be quite the dance. So we we we got him.

01:29:18:26 - 01:29:22:02
Jared
Situated and stabilized as best that we possibly could. But like I said earlier, I.

01:29:22:02 - 01:29:23:28
Jared
Could quickly tell he had no.

01:29:23:28 - 01:29:43:23
Jared
Feeling in his, left arm. He was unable to move his fingers. So it was quickly apparent that there was some neck injuries and potential spine injuries going on there. So as I'm stabilizing him, the rest of the rescue team is working on getting us, we have what's called a Stokes litter, the one that we have or that we're all issued, we carry with us in our trucks is made of titanium, so it's nice and light.

01:29:43:23 - 01:29:52:13
Jared
It breaks into two pieces. So it allows us to be able to actually, like, repel with it, fly it in with a helicopter and things like that. So the rest of the team, while I'm starting the.

01:29:52:13 - 01:29:53:28
Jared
Medical care on.

01:29:54:02 - 01:29:58:14
Jared
Our patient at this point, is starting to bring more ropes and bring all of.

01:29:58:14 - 01:30:02:08
Jared
The equipment we need to get him stabilized. I ended up, making.

01:30:02:08 - 01:30:11:08
Jared
A collar for our victim and getting his spine as stable as possible with the assistance of the guide that I mentioned earlier and the layer that was still there.

01:30:11:11 - 01:30:12:00
Jared
As soon as they got.

01:30:12:00 - 01:30:15:26
Jared
That litter down to us, we were able to get him loaded into the litter.

01:30:15:28 - 01:30:26:17
Jared
Meanwhile, our patient at that point, he he absolute rock star, this this gentleman is tough as nails. That's all I can say about him. As bad as he was, he had the best spirits.

01:30:26:20 - 01:30:27:17
Jared
And ultimately, I.

01:30:27:17 - 01:30:33:15
Jared
Think that's another good example of why the outcome was so good. Because he wasn't panicking. He wasn't freaking.

01:30:33:15 - 01:30:35:11
Jared
Out. He was an.

01:30:35:11 - 01:30:46:23
Jared
Absolute rock star. Is bad off as he was. He was fully alert and oriented. By the time I got to him, was able to answer all the questions and everything like that. Knew he was in a bad way.

01:30:46:25 - 01:30:49:09
Jared
But, you know, he he he.

01:30:49:09 - 01:31:04:06
Jared
Helped to this be a successful rescue by being, like, the best patient as possible and staying calm. And I think you could, you know, attribute that to a lot of his time and experience in the mountains and as being like, as knowledgeable of a climber and just a mountain person as he was. So from there.

01:31:04:08 - 01:31:16:23
Jared
These kind of rescues get very technical. At this point, we have to develop systems to where we can get him from that point 600ft off the ground, all the way down to the ground, to where we can get him to a place where I can.

01:31:16:23 - 01:31:17:27
Jared
Get him on a.

01:31:17:27 - 01:31:22:13
Jared
Helicopter. I can't get him on in a helicopter with our little helicopter like that on the side.

01:31:22:13 - 01:31:23:29
Jared
Of a wall. I can't.

01:31:23:29 - 01:31:30:12
Jared
We didn't have our hoist capability that day, so we were using our smaller caliber, helicopter.

01:31:30:15 - 01:31:31:20
Jared
So we get.

01:31:31:20 - 01:31:32:17
Jared
Them stabilized in the.

01:31:32:17 - 01:31:33:03
Jared
In the litter.

01:31:33:09 - 01:31:36:24
Jared
And, from there, it's it's all technical rescue at that.

01:31:36:24 - 01:31:40:00
Jared
Point. We have to build anchors.

01:31:40:00 - 01:31:45:01
Jared
And, you know, obviously, we don't bring 600ft ropes with us.

01:31:45:03 - 01:31:58:29
Jared
So we've got to figure out a way to get 600ft with some ropes. So we have to make our way down the wall as safely as possible. And when we do that, we can't just send the victim or the patient down by themselves. So we've got to make sure that's a it's always going to be a two person load.

01:31:59:02 - 01:32:19:05
Jared
So since I had already started the medical care, I ended up being the rescuer that stayed with him. So I you know, without getting too specific of the details, I basically attach myself in himself to a two rope system, and then we start working on lowering, and then we kind of leap for our rescuers down the wall to start building stations and then being able to set up with the two ropes so that we can continue to lower.

01:32:19:07 - 01:32:21:09
Jared
So all in all, by the time we got him.

01:32:21:09 - 01:32:24:24
Jared
On the ground time a call that they call him was 1150.

01:32:24:27 - 01:32:28:01
Jared
We were to him relatively quickly.

01:32:28:01 - 01:32:33:27
Jared
Like I said, you were asking about timeframes earlier. We were to him within an hour.

01:32:33:29 - 01:32:34:16
Jared
It took also.

01:32:34:16 - 01:32:54:07
Jared
A little while to get him stabilized just because of the situation. And I believe we finally touched down on the ground about 5 p.m.. With that said, that's not where it stops, though, because, you know, anybody that's been on that wall knows it's it's a tight canyon in there. There's water. There's all sorts of concerns. I know everybody's like, there's water in the desert.

01:32:54:07 - 01:32:57:10
Jared
Yeah. That beautiful canyon has big pools at the bottom of these

01:32:57:10 - 01:32:57:15
Kyle
now.

01:32:57:23 - 01:33:05:27
Jared
climbs. Yeah, they were full. So that's a big concern, right. We've got a patient that's windy. It's kind of chilly. It's in the shaded area. I don't want to get this guy wet. So I've got.

01:33:05:27 - 01:33:06:13
Jared
To you know.

01:33:06:15 - 01:33:22:02
Jared
There's a lot of technicality that went into play on this. Like it was one heck of a rescue for sure. Thank goodness we had all the volunteers that we did. We actually called in one more lead climb, volunteer and then two of our mountain rescue volunteers, one of which happens to be a doctor here in town.

01:33:22:05 - 01:33:30:11
Jared
So as soon as I touched down on the ground, our patient literally had a doctor there waiting for him. Made a quick assessment and.

01:33:30:14 - 01:33:30:26
Jared
Once.

01:33:30:26 - 01:33:34:20
Jared
We got on the ground and had enough assets, about five of.

01:33:34:20 - 01:33:35:18
Jared
Us.

01:33:35:20 - 01:33:44:06
Jared
We had a couple more people come down from the wall as soon as I got our patient on the ground. We then had to carry him several hundred yards through that canyon, which is, you know.

01:33:44:08 - 01:33:46:07
Jared
Full of foliage,

01:33:46:09 - 01:33:52:26
Jared
Like all the scrub oak bushes, tons of boulders, some creek crossings. So we had to carefully carry him to a place where.

01:33:52:28 - 01:33:53:20
Jared
Was big.

01:33:53:20 - 01:33:55:05
Jared
Enough for us to be able.

01:33:55:05 - 01:33:56:15
Jared
To get our.

01:33:56:18 - 01:34:06:07
Jared
We use an MD 530 is a small little helicopter, is one of our rescue ships a big enough area where he could get that in and land one of those skids on a rock.

01:34:06:13 - 01:34:07:23
Jared
So that I could get in, and then we.

01:34:07:23 - 01:34:11:01
Jared
Could load that litter, and. And I was in there to receive him.

01:34:11:03 - 01:34:11:08
Jared
By.

01:34:11:08 - 01:34:30:04
Jared
The time we did that, I think we were like, right around 530, as it was just like dusk was, you know, the daylight was starting to end, which can make things a little bit more spicy. And then from there we flew him. There's a fire station out in Red Rock. That's typically a staging area that we use where we always, already had medical assets waiting.

01:34:30:07 - 01:34:32:08
Jared
So we were able to get him, flown.

01:34:32:08 - 01:34:43:28
Jared
To that station where I transferred him over to an ambulance crew that was waiting. Helped them with getting him transferred into there later. And then they took him off to UMC trauma, and I think he finally got there. You know.

01:34:43:28 - 01:34:44:17
Jared
Probably.

01:34:44:24 - 01:34:46:10
Jared
I don't know, somewhere between 6 and.

01:34:46:10 - 01:34:47:11
Jared
7 by the time he.

01:34:47:11 - 01:34:48:06
Jared
Got to the hospital.

01:34:48:06 - 01:34:52:07
Jared
And good care. I've actually spoken with him.

01:34:52:09 - 01:34:54:07
Jared
A few times, checking with him daily. He's doing.

01:34:54:07 - 01:34:56:21
Jared
Well. You know, he did.

01:34:56:21 - 01:34:59:14
Jared
Suffer three breaks in his neck, a contusion on his spinal.

01:34:59:14 - 01:35:03:02
Jared
Cord. But he's he'll recover, you know? And a.

01:35:03:02 - 01:35:04:14
Jared
Lot of that has to do.

01:35:04:14 - 01:35:05:25
Jared
With the.

01:35:05:26 - 01:35:11:18
Jared
The big team effort with his mental, like, fortitude.

01:35:11:20 - 01:35:19:22
Jared
With his players preparedness and his knowledge of being able to do some self rescue because it wasn't as simple as I made it sound of just, you know, he lowered him.

01:35:19:22 - 01:35:20:22
Jared
Back down like.

01:35:20:24 - 01:35:26:01
Jared
You know, there was some shenanigans that had to happen for his blare to get, you know, his injured buddy that's bleeding.

01:35:26:01 - 01:35:28:23
Jared
All over the wall back to him. So it.

01:35:28:23 - 01:35:30:08
Jared
Was.

01:35:30:10 - 01:35:33:15
Jared
For such a terrible situation, I think it had the best possible.

01:35:33:15 - 01:35:34:29
Jared
Outcome because.

01:35:34:29 - 01:35:47:21
Jared
Of all of the circumstances that were involved in everybody. That part, you know, everybody from the climbers that were on the route next to us, helping us out all the way to the guide that came up and assisted to all of the SAR personnel and the pilots like.

01:35:47:23 - 01:35:48:06
Jared
You know.

01:35:48:10 - 01:35:49:26
Jared
Definitely saved this man's.

01:35:49:26 - 01:35:54:06
Jared
Life. You know, he, and he would agree.

01:35:54:10 - 01:35:57:03
Jared
So that was pretty epic. And unfortunately.

01:35:57:03 - 01:35:58:05
Jared
We, you know.

01:35:58:07 - 01:36:03:18
Jared
We were kind of on that subject of more severe type rescues. And these level ones. Unfortunately, these happened quite a.

01:36:03:18 - 01:36:05:08
Jared
Bit like we, we we have.

01:36:05:08 - 01:36:07:26
Jared
Had these quite often.

01:36:07:29 - 01:36:13:02
Jared
And it's, it's, it's just part of climbing unfortunately so.

01:36:13:04 - 01:36:16:15
Kyle
how many times a year would you say something this this severe

01:36:16:17 - 01:36:18:29
Jared
I would yeah. I mean.

01:36:19:02 - 01:36:24:05
Jared
Something this severe, I would say at least once or twice a year.

01:36:24:08 - 01:36:24:20
Jared
Typically.

01:36:24:20 - 01:36:31:25
Jared
I'd say it's, it's safe to say at least once a year we're going to have one that where we have a patient that we would consider a true level.

01:36:31:25 - 01:36:34:02
Jared
One on a climbing route. You know.

01:36:34:02 - 01:36:43:26
Jared
This was definitely one of the more severe, not the most severe. We've you know, we'll get into the next subject in a second. But this was this was a bad one. This was, you know.

01:36:43:29 - 01:36:46:07
Jared
The, all of,

01:36:46:09 - 01:36:48:01
Jared
All of the factors on this, you know.

01:36:48:02 - 01:36:48:27
Jared
The the.

01:36:49:03 - 01:36:51:12
Jared
Size of the climb where he was.

01:36:51:12 - 01:36:53:05
Jared
They all made it.

01:36:53:05 - 01:36:54:18
Jared
A very challenging.

01:36:54:18 - 01:36:55:21
Jared
One. And I'm. I couldn't.

01:36:55:21 - 01:36:57:19
Jared
Be more proud of our team.

01:36:57:21 - 01:36:58:10
Jared
And.

01:36:58:10 - 01:37:00:04
Jared
You know, our pilots and our volunteers.

01:37:00:04 - 01:37:00:22
Jared
And, you.

01:37:00:22 - 01:37:04:16
Jared
Know, for for being able to, to be out there, make this a success because it.

01:37:04:18 - 01:37:07:05
Jared
It's a task like it it's so many.

01:37:07:05 - 01:37:21:19
Jared
Moving parts. It's such a technical type rescue that requires so much skill. And everybody just totally and everybody performed like everybody was clutch in the moment and just made it happen. And like it was it was a beautiful thing to see happen, for sure.

01:37:21:21 - 01:37:23:04
Jared
Yeah.

01:37:23:07 - 01:37:26:25
Kyle
A couple of follow up questions. What ended up arresting this fall?

01:37:26:28 - 01:37:28:01
Jared
He had a.

01:37:28:01 - 01:37:35:06
Jared
Bomb or a piece placed below that? Not. I can't recall exactly what it was, but, you know, he had multiple pieces placed.

01:37:35:09 - 01:37:35:24
Jared
Before.

01:37:35:24 - 01:37:36:05
Jared
The.

01:37:36:05 - 01:37:38:26
Jared
The one that failed. So it was the piece.

01:37:38:26 - 01:37:40:26
Jared
Below the the.

01:37:40:26 - 01:37:42:13
Jared
Nut that I told you that I saw.

01:37:42:16 - 01:37:47:24
Kyle
That was just kind of randomly sitting there without any sort of sign that it was even attached to the rope in the

01:37:47:26 - 01:38:03:03
Jared
Correct. Yeah. And talking with him on the way down the wall because we definitely had some time to chat, you know, like I'm, I'm a big fan of, like, patient advocacy and keeping my patients super comfortable and telling stories and chatting and just keeping them occupied. And but that was a lot of those questions we had was trying to figure out what happened.

01:38:03:03 - 01:38:07:22
Jared
And unfortunately, you know, the best that he can recall is he knows he clipped that.

01:38:07:25 - 01:38:11:11
Jared
He's not he has no idea how it came unclipped.

01:38:11:11 - 01:38:21:20
Jared
And again, this is this is an experienced climber. Not saying he made a mistake. It could have been a freak accident. I mean, you know, we don't place locking carabiners on every piece of pro. That's just not part of the game.

01:38:21:22 - 01:38:31:15
Kyle
I think that's the whole thing that this accident brings up is just like, we can try to mitigate the risk as much as possible, but after a certain amount of time, like chaos comes for us

01:38:31:19 - 01:38:32:05
Jared
for sure.

01:38:32:05 - 01:38:32:24
Jared
Murphy's law.

01:38:32:25 - 01:38:33:12
Jared
Right?

01:38:33:15 - 01:38:36:17
Kyle
Yeah. And did the black totem fail? Did it pull out of the

01:38:36:21 - 01:38:37:26
Jared
So undetermined on.

01:38:37:26 - 01:38:40:19
Jared
That. If it had, it.

01:38:40:26 - 01:38:45:16
Jared
Would have been on his rope near his harness. Right. Like it would have been with him.

01:38:45:19 - 01:38:46:18
Jared
There was, you.

01:38:46:18 - 01:38:56:12
Jared
Have to understand to when we've got at that point there was six of us at an anchor. There's a lot of ropes, there's a lot of gear, there's a lot of equipment. It's so hard to tell. There was a black.

01:38:56:12 - 01:38:59:23
Jared
Totem at the anchor.

01:38:59:25 - 01:39:06:07
Jared
But it was like clipped to a harness at that point. So unknown if they got removed. Speaking with the Blair, he doesn't remember removing it.

01:39:06:10 - 01:39:08:12
Jared
So unknown where the black.

01:39:08:12 - 01:39:16:06
Jared
Totem came into play. Was just speaking with our with the patient as I was coming down the wall with him. I, you know, just trying to talk with him. He's like, yeah, I remember place not.

01:39:16:06 - 01:39:16:22
Jared
Not I.

01:39:16:22 - 01:39:27:09
Jared
Remember clip in the sling and everything like that. And then I believe I placed a really good black totem after that. And everybody knows like black totem like when it's place good. Like, that's a magical little piece. Right.

01:39:27:12 - 01:39:30:19
Jared
But it wasn't there.

01:39:30:21 - 01:39:33:23
Jared
I mean, it was still there. We found it. I just I don't.

01:39:33:23 - 01:39:34:06
Jared
Know

01:39:34:10 - 01:39:35:29
Kyle
no signs of damage to it at

01:39:36:02 - 01:39:36:23
Jared
Correct. Yeah.

01:39:36:23 - 01:39:45:10
Jared
It was totally intact. And unknown where the carabiner that was on that, that wasn't recovered. So you would have think that would have been on the rope either.

01:39:45:17 - 01:39:51:20
Kyle
I've, I've heard of stuff on clipping from the rope, but also on clipping from the alpine drawer and then just falling off the

01:39:51:23 - 01:39:52:06
Jared
yeah.

01:39:52:12 - 01:39:52:20
Kyle
That's

01:39:52:27 - 01:39:56:13
Jared
it is wild. And I, we can only speculate. Right.

01:39:56:13 - 01:40:02:00
Jared
Because unfortunately he did, you know, lose consciousness, sustain a head injury. So he probably wasn't in like.

01:40:02:02 - 01:40:03:24
Jared
You know it was a big.

01:40:03:24 - 01:40:08:06
Jared
Day. So it was hard for him to recall exactly what happened. But you know, after talking with.

01:40:08:06 - 01:40:13:23
Jared
Him and knowing him like this, this isn't this isn't somebody that's, you know.

01:40:13:23 - 01:40:15:15
Jared
Inexperienced, just out there doing wild.

01:40:15:15 - 01:40:18:06
Jared
Stuff. So. Yeah. But again, like.

01:40:18:10 - 01:40:21:00
Jared
I can't stress enough, like, know this when you're going.

01:40:21:00 - 01:40:25:18
Jared
Climbing, it's stuff can happen. It is dangerous. Like, people die doing this sport.

01:40:25:18 - 01:40:28:03
Jared
Like it's kind of some of the allure to it.

01:40:28:03 - 01:40:29:22
Jared
Right? We love climbing.

01:40:29:22 - 01:40:36:12
Jared
Because it's spicy, because it gives us that adventurous feeling of like, I'm doing something I shouldn't be. I'm defying gravity.

01:40:36:12 - 01:40:37:20
Jared
I'm, you know,

01:40:37:23 - 01:40:44:27
Kyle
To me, I think it's the fact that we're doing something that has such understandable consequence.

01:40:45:00 - 01:40:53:06
Kyle
Like, how often can you be in a moment like that where your decisions matter so much?

01:40:53:09 - 01:40:54:18
Kyle
I think that's rare

01:40:54:20 - 01:40:57:15
Jared
It's a constant game of risk management, right?

01:40:57:21 - 01:40:59:11
Jared
It's like you're constantly

01:40:59:17 - 01:41:02:16
Kyle
so it's so close to like some sense of truth.

01:41:02:19 - 01:41:02:26
Jared
Like

01:41:02:26 - 01:41:05:19
Kyle
Like we're in meaning like your decisions

01:41:05:21 - 01:41:06:04
Jared
for sure.

01:41:06:11 - 01:41:07:12
Kyle
Every decision you make

01:41:07:18 - 01:41:08:08
Jared
100%.

01:41:08:14 - 01:41:17:00
Kyle
And it's not like you can just wander around the world. Just kind of like making mistakes or too. Oh, well, I guess I didn't do that. I know it's like, no, like everything matters.

01:41:17:02 - 01:41:19:12
Kyle
Everything has meaning. And that's that's why I love

01:41:19:16 - 01:41:33:17
Jared
Me too. Right there with you. It's like this one is probably one of my. You know, it is my biggest passion is for that. Like one of those. That reason right there is the mental challenge of it. You know, it doesn't matter how hard the climb is that you're on, like it's it's all about.

01:41:33:17 - 01:41:34:13
Jared
Like, you know.

01:41:34:13 - 01:41:38:09
Jared
There's so many books on this and stuff too, you know, I can talk about like the Rock warrior's way and all this.

01:41:38:09 - 01:41:40:18
Jared
Stuff, but it's like it's the mental games.

01:41:40:18 - 01:41:42:01
Jared
You're playing up there and like, just.

01:41:42:01 - 01:41:44:06
Jared
Keeping yourself.

01:41:44:06 - 01:41:45:07
Jared
Controlled.

01:41:45:07 - 01:41:46:20
Jared
When in these just.

01:41:46:22 - 01:41:48:13
Jared
Crazy environments, you.

01:41:48:13 - 01:41:49:26
Jared
Know? So,

01:41:49:29 - 01:42:12:13
Kyle
yeah. Yeah it's wild but yeah the the this. Yeah. Like I said, I'm, I guess I'm repeating myself. But yeah, the whole, the whole element of chaos, it's like you know, I think people like mountaineers and alpinist, deal with this a lot more than I think rock climbers do, where it's like you have the mountain chaos, you've got avalanches, you have, crevasses, you have randomness.

01:42:12:13 - 01:42:31:14
Kyle
That is okay. Who dial of randomness has turned up a little bit. Rock climbing can seem pretty sterile. When it comes to, like, comparison to other mountain sports. But this example is just like such a, such a stark reminder that, yeah, even even trad climbing, like, randomness is there

01:42:31:17 - 01:42:32:20
Jared
For sure. Yeah.

01:42:32:20 - 01:42:33:25
Jared
There's so many variables.

01:42:33:25 - 01:42:39:18
Kyle
Anything else about. Oh, so.

01:42:39:20 - 01:42:55:22
Kyle
The victim is, like, out of your hands. The seven hour rescue is done. Like, what happens to your team's mind? Like, how are you guys decompressing? Like, it's got to be like, a moment, I would imagine.

01:42:55:22 - 01:43:22:02
Jared
You know, that's I'm glad you asked that. So a huge part of any rescue is the debrief right. That's our moment to decompress. That's our moment to talk about what happened, the good and the bad. Right. Because every one of these rescues is a learning opportunity as well. Like, how could we have been more efficient? What are some little things we could have done a little bit better?

01:43:22:04 - 01:43:49:29
Jared
Everything from patient care to the rope systems that we use to how we access them to, you know, any sorts of variables that we could have done. So that's a big thing that we do after every one of these is nobody goes home. We collect all of our gear, we get all that sorted, and then we sit and we talk, we stand and everybody like, goes through their what they did in this scenario, what they could have done better, what they feel like they did great.

01:43:49:29 - 01:44:12:00
Jared
And then overall what went well. Right. And then a big thing for me, it kind of goes back to that patient advocacy part is like you almost build like a little bit of a relationship, like you spend, you know, five hours hanging out with somebody that's that's severely injured and in a bad way. Like you're kind of you get to know them and you start, you start caring.

01:44:12:00 - 01:44:31:25
Jared
You like you care for your patients. So for me, like the after the aftermath for me is is all about like, I, I like to I like to reach out. I like to see how they're doing. I like to check in. I want to know, I truly do, you know what I mean? Like, that's important to me because we provided them a service, and I want to make sure that we did the best that we could.

01:44:31:25 - 01:44:55:10
Jared
And then it helps us to, as rescuers, to know that they're okay. You know what I mean? Like that we were able to get them out of that really bad situation and get them help and then make sure that they're safe after that. And then the first thing I do is I share that with the teammates, too, because that's that's the kind of stuff that that's the reason that everybody does this is to, to help people.

01:44:55:10 - 01:45:17:04
Jared
So when they get to get that feedback that, you know, you know, to see somebody that's grateful for, for our service, like that's why our volunteers do what they do is like to know that they succeeded in that. That's huge. Right? So that's that's all part of that aftermath. Like how how how we wind down is that debrief and then just kind of chatting about it and, you know.

01:45:17:07 - 01:45:17:23
Kyle
yeah.

01:45:17:26 - 01:45:33:17
Kyle
Yeah. I've, I heard people recommend a debrief for clients, even if nothing goes wrong, like get back at the end of the day and you're sitting at the car drinking your Gatorade, ever, like, do the same thing. Hey, what, you know, with your partner. What? Well, what didn't what could we have? What could we have done better today?

01:45:33:17 - 01:45:39:02
Kyle
What? Where did we push it? A little too close, you know, how can we be more efficient?

01:45:39:04 - 01:45:44:00
Jared
Yeah. If you're not doing that, like you're wrong. Like it's it's so beneficial to do that. No I'm serious. Right. Like

01:45:44:00 - 01:45:44:09
Kyle
love that.

01:45:44:09 - 01:45:54:08
Jared
especially like maybe maybe not sport climbing. You know what I mean. Like that's a that's a different thing. I think you could probably avoid a sport climb like, as you're pretty engaged, you and your Blair commuting the whole time and you know, you're projecting.

01:45:54:08 - 01:46:12:16
Jared
You're doing it ever. And it's you're just having fun. But when you're starting to get into like these bigger objectives and multi pitch stuff, whether it's, you know, big multi pitch sport or big trad like adventure routes and stuff. Debriefs are amazing, right? Especially when you throw in variables like you wrap the route as well, you know, like you know, or you walked off and that didn't go so well.

01:46:12:16 - 01:46:29:01
Jared
Like how could we have done that better? Could we have researched that better drawn out a map? Yeah, debriefs are huge. I mean, you know, you know hockey players and football players like the Golden Knights and the Raiders are going to sit down and have a debrief after their game. You know, they are they're not just going home and high five in the locker room.

01:46:29:04 - 01:46:35:24
Jared
They're going to sit down. They're going to talk about how can we done this better. You know what I mean. And that's how you just get better and safer as a climber too.

01:46:35:26 - 01:46:37:25
Jared
So absolutely I agree with that

01:46:38:01 - 01:46:42:00
Kyle
there's a level of self-awareness. It's important too. It's like asking those questions in the

01:46:42:03 - 01:46:53:02
Jared
Yeah. Maybe that's a little harsh to say if you're not debriefing you're wrong. But like I just like tell me a reason not to, you know what I mean? So there's, you know, there's no harm in it for sure. Like, there's tons of benefits.

01:46:53:02 - 01:46:54:00
Jared
So,

01:46:54:02 - 01:47:15:18
Kyle
Before we get back to it, if you've been listening to the show, you probably know how much time and effort and love I put into this project. The research, the conversations, the production, the editing, all of it. And while it might seem like I've got a team of people on this project, I don't. It's just me. And even with sponsors, I spend a large amount of my own personal money on this project simply because I love it.

01:47:15:20 - 01:47:39:11
Kyle
If you are a listener that's looking for a way to give back to the show in a meaningful way. Please become a Patreon subscriber. Once you become a supporting member of the Climbing Majority, not only will you feel really good about yourself, but you'll also get access to the ad free version of the show and exclusive content. If this speaks to you, click the link in the description or go to Patreon.com Slash the Climbing Majority podcast to become a supporting member of the show today.

01:47:39:14 - 01:47:41:04
Kyle
So to me

01:47:41:07 - 01:48:09:29
Kyle
to me, there's like body recoveries and then there's something happened where we didn't make it in time. And a death was a result of something. Okay. Do you have any like, stories of maybe the ladder first, like where it gets maybe like, a rescue could have been, but it ended up turning into a body recovery.

01:48:10:02 - 01:48:10:10
Jared
Trying to.

01:48:10:10 - 01:48:11:13
Jared
Think of I have.

01:48:11:16 - 01:48:43:13
Jared
Example of that per se. I can think of one where we did a recovery. As a team. I wasn't on it, but our team did a recovery, and the person ended up dying later from the injuries. I don't know. I actually, I know for a fact that in that circumstances, due to the injuries, the time of our rescue had no, no effect on that was the severity of their injuries were just ended up being unsurvivable.

01:48:43:15 - 01:49:02:23
Jared
I can't think of any time I take that back. I can think of one. And it wasn't a climbing one. It was a, a hiker, and it was in Red Rock, and I can't remember exactly what canyon again, it was a couple years ago.

01:49:02:26 - 01:49:38:18
Jared
We had a hiker that was up there during the snow, actually, when there was snow storm. I think this was probably the 2022, a lot of snow, especially in the upper elevations out there. And the gentleman had climbed up there and not the best apparel he was wearing, like, I believe cowboy boots. Had, you know, some food and water and things like that young fit guy had hiked up into the upper parts of Red Rock into where the snow had starting to get actually pretty deep up there, and he was still kind of scrambling around in some of like the sandstone areas that were covered in snow, which would had started to kind

01:49:38:18 - 01:50:03:02
Jared
of turn into like kind of like a thin layer of ice. He got proper stuck up there. And he from what I recall from getting the briefing on this, he called in 901 and asked for assistance. The cloud layer and stuff like that was just, far too low. Could not get to him versus, you know, via helicopter.

01:50:03:05 - 01:50:25:18
Jared
And, he was told to stay in place, which is a hard thing to do when you're not prepared. And night setting in, he ended up moving down the snow field that he was on, kind of closer to the sandstone, and then ended up slipping and falling on some ice and took, a very big, nasty fall that ended up being fatal.

01:50:25:21 - 01:50:43:17
Jared
We the team was able to go out the following day and, went back to the coordinates that he was last at, However, like I said, he had moved down the mountain to try to get out of the snow from those and had fallen to his death, unfortunately. And they were able to, find his body kind of below the last point of contact.

01:50:43:17 - 01:51:04:19
Jared
So that's one of those situations where, you know, unfortunately, it wasn't even safe. It was at night due to all the ice and everything like that, too. Like it was it was almost even impossible to access him via foot. So that was one of those ones where it was like, man, you know, if we were able to get to him, could we have saved him as a team?

01:51:04:21 - 01:51:27:13
Jared
Unfortunately, we weren't like, we just simply there's just sometimes we're you know, it's not worth risking, you know, the helicopter and the lives of everybody involved as far as rescuers and stuff like that and having multiple casualties. If it's not safe, like, we simply just sometimes can't access people. And unfortunately, in that one, you know, again, it was a hiker, you know, he unfortunately expired due to those circumstances.

01:51:27:16 - 01:51:31:12
Kyle
What's the issue with cloud cover and helicopters is that line of sight and

01:51:31:14 - 01:51:32:09
Jared
Absolutely.

01:51:32:09 - 01:51:33:04
Jared
So

01:51:33:06 - 01:51:34:15
Kyle
you can't like.

01:51:34:18 - 01:51:57:23
Jared
Yeah. So you have to understand that when our pilots are trying to get officers, human beings or, you know, volunteers inserted into an area there, there, it's typically not in like a big wide open flat area. If that's the case, you know, no big deal. They're trying to do it in these tight canyons and stuff like that. So if they can't see, they can't fly into the canyons because the canyons are so tight.

01:51:57:23 - 01:52:14:29
Jared
Yeah. Is there, you know, probably some technologies. Again, I can't really speak to that. I'm not a pilot. But a lot of what they do is line of sight, especially when it gets into the very technical flying where they're getting into these tight canyons and getting us as close to the the injured parties as possible. They have to have vision for that, simply put.

01:52:15:01 - 01:52:36:20
Jared
And then a lot of the times too, with with cloud cover and when it's snowing and stuff like that, there's wind and wind is just an unruly factor when it comes to trying to position a helicopter in a very specific location. It's a, you know, it's it's almost impossible. So like our pilots simply cannot do that. They, they, they can't fly into these tight canyons when they can't see and they're getting pushed all over the place by Mother Nature.

01:52:36:20 - 01:52:37:19
Jared
So that's

01:52:37:19 - 01:52:42:16
Kyle
fly on Sunday. I was over in, Matt on Magic Mountain, and you guys were flying in and out

01:52:42:16 - 01:52:43:25
Jared
of,

01:52:43:28 - 01:53:08:16
Jared
Was that later in the afternoon? Yeah. So that was, you know, that was the two rescues that we did yesterday, actually. So today being Tuesday, yesterday we did two rescues, one on Crimson and then one over on Mr. Z on Sunday evening. Late in the afternoon. In the evening they hiked. What time was it on Sunday?

01:53:08:18 - 01:53:09:11
Jared
On here.

01:53:09:14 - 01:53:29:16
Jared
Oh, okay. That was me. Yeah. So that was us flying into, back into dark, like, through the dark shadows to recover our gear. So we had to leave a bunch of gear in there. So we went in in the morning, flew in and, got dropped off at the same spot and dropped down because we had ended up leaving like a fixed anchor down there with a bunch of, like, trad pieces and stuff.

01:53:29:18 - 01:53:32:04
Jared
Later in that day where I was going with this.

01:53:32:07 - 01:53:37:12
Kyle
like, watching the helicopter fly around. I was like, I was getting blown off the road. I was like, that is insane.

01:53:37:14 - 01:53:53:29
Jared
See, that wasn't that wasn't too bad. And in and the wind can be deceiving like out in certain canyons. It can be way different than another canyon. So our pilots will try. So where I was going with that, as later in that day we did have two parties climb in the one on Crimson Chrysalis that said their rope was stuck.

01:53:53:29 - 01:54:16:20
Jared
And then we had the party on Mr. Z, over near brownstone wall, right on the jackrabbit buttress that were, off route and stuck. That started on Sunday evening. We flew the helicopter in with rescuers, but were unable to get to them because the winds were so bad at that point, they couldn't safely land anywhere. So unfortunately, the decision was made and both parties were prepared for it.

01:54:16:20 - 01:54:32:05
Jared
They had to stay the night. And then yesterday morning at 4 a.m., we started hiking in and then climbed up to get them. So there's definitely times where Mother Nature plays a huge factor in this. Right? So and we're we're always at her beck and call. So.

01:54:32:08 - 01:54:42:02
Kyle
What about let's talk about community pillar okay. Yeah. Let's you know, because that one I think is still pretty fresh. And in everybody's minds, that

01:54:42:04 - 01:54:51:10
Jared
Should have been 2024 is worse because we're early in 2026 now. So I think it was later in 2024. Yeah. So a little over a year ago.

01:54:51:12 - 01:54:55:09
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah. Just tell me that story from your perspective.

01:54:55:11 - 01:55:12:14
Jared
Yeah. Again, another rescue that our team did. I wasn't on that one. A couple of our other partners, you know, a couple of our, my teammates and our volunteers were on that one. Read the full debrief, talked with the all the individuals involved, because we do that, even if we're not on a rescue, we all debrief it.

01:55:12:14 - 01:55:47:11
Jared
We all learn from rescues as a team. So when it came to Community Pillar, what's interesting about that is we had actually had a rescue already going on on Cat in the hat. So just across the canyon from it, we had just some stuck climbers, that were unable to get down. So we had a couple volunteers and some officers that were already out there doing a rescue, and one of our volunteers actually made a statement there like, hey, I just, I just heard what I think is a person's scream and fall and, land hard on the ground.

01:55:47:14 - 01:56:12:17
Jared
If it sounded like a, like a body had fallen. And then almost within, you know, seconds of that, you know, within minutes, actually, because there's a relay that happens, 911 gets called and then the information gets sent to us that, yes, we did just have, an individual that fell, most likely, you know, it was reported to their death on Community pillar.

01:56:12:20 - 01:56:35:10
Jared
So another rescue team was spun up. So another officer and a couple more volunteers were sent over there. Were flown in to Community Pillar, and, they were able to climb up and access, the person that reported it, which was, the, climbing partner of the, the person that was pretty quickly determined to be deceased.

01:56:35:12 - 01:57:03:25
Jared
So this kind of goes back to what we were talking about when we were talking about rappelling earlier. There was a lot of misinformation that came out about that particular incident. And then, you know, this being a small world that the that the climbing community is, I actually rescued a couple people off of Crimson, you know, probably six months after the community pillar incident, which I'll get back to in a second, ironically, that were stuck, you know, from rappelling on Crimson.

01:57:03:28 - 01:57:20:24
Jared
That were friends with both involved parties. So I was able to get kind of their perspective of it, too. They were climbers from like the Southern California area. And these these two individuals from the Community Pillar incident were, you know, well known climbers in that area. And, there was there was a lot of misinformation out there about it and stuff too.

01:57:20:24 - 01:57:50:28
Jared
But at the end of the day, what ended up occurring is that the first person, rappelled down. I can't state specifically. I don't remember what technique the first person rappelled with, but what I do know is that they rappelled down first, got to the bottom of that, repel the second individual set themselves up. They were using a double rope or excuse me, they were using a single climbing rock and they had it halved, like we often do in climbing.

01:57:51:00 - 01:58:11:10
Jared
But the second climber opted to use a or block technique and load a Gregory to just repel on one of the lines. Unfortunately, she didn't have a buddy check. This was kind of what I was talking about earlier. As far as you know, both parties should set themselves up on repel. You can repel off of somebody that's already loaded.

01:58:11:10 - 01:58:35:00
Jared
You should do that. That's best practice we talked about earlier. Rappelling is the most can be the most dangerous part of climbing in some cases. And this is a good example of that. So they were on a ledge. The individual loaded themselves onto the, rappel into their Gregory, which is single rope. You know, belay and technically rappelling device if you know how to use it correctly.

01:58:35:02 - 01:58:55:27
Jared
And unfortunately, they, they loaded on the wrong side. So if you're not familiar with a knot block, basically you're using a knot and a carabiner on on one side to stop the rope from getting pulled through. And then you load your device on the other side, preferably you know, for it to work successfully, and then you'll be pulling against that knot into the anchor.

01:58:55:27 - 01:59:21:17
Jared
And then when you get at the bottom, you can pull on the knot side and retrieve your rope. Unfortunately, though, she was standing on a ledge loaded on the wrong side. So on the knot side, it was also dark, and as she approached the edge, as soon as she loaded it and started waiting, the rope on the edge, the rope just took off and she, you know, fell with zero resistance, to her death.

01:59:21:20 - 01:59:46:11
Jared
So, yeah, I mean, super tragic. It's very easy to say it after the fact. But it could have been avoided. And that's that's kind of what I was talking about, earlier is I don't understand why people don't want to do safety checks. It's almost like people are embarrassed or there's, like, a stigma about it.

01:59:46:11 - 02:00:05:12
Jared
But, I mean, I've been doing it since day one, and I still make every person I climb with do it. I check each other's harnesses. I go through the old school language of, you know, on belay layers on climbing, climb on, you know what I mean? And then when we're rappelling, we do the same thing each and every time we take off on a pitch, we're checking.

02:00:05:12 - 02:00:24:24
Jared
Hey, do you have all the gear you need? You know what I mean? Like, it takes seconds to do these things, and it can literally mean, like, the difference between life or death, you know? And I just can't stress that enough. I mean, and that's just as the climber in me that just cares about humans is just take the second to double check each other.

02:00:25:01 - 02:00:27:11
Jared
There's really no reason not to, you know what I mean?

02:00:27:16 - 02:00:39:27
Kyle
at least for me, in that specific example, the biggest thing to take away, was just like, test, test your new system before you take off your back. Like, ideally, you're clipped in with a piece

02:00:40:02 - 02:00:41:22
Jared
100%. Yeah.

02:00:42:00 - 02:00:48:01
Kyle
load your rappel so that your piece is got slack before you take it off.

02:00:48:04 - 02:00:50:18
Kyle
If that is practiced, you won't make that

02:00:50:21 - 02:00:51:10
Jared
100%.

02:00:51:15 - 02:01:11:02
Jared
Yeah. I mean that's, that's quite simply like that's the best practice right. And even if you don't climb with a dedicated piece like you should have some slings 100%, you know, girth, a quick alpine sling, have yourself a way of connecting. Yep. And then use, use some sort of backup. Why not? You know, I mean, there's so many, like, a little piece of hollow block or.

02:01:11:04 - 02:01:29:21
Jared
You know what I mean? There's so many different things that you can do out there to back up an ATC or some sort of repel device, you know, and then if you're going to use a not block, I'm not saying don't do it, it's a valid technique and stuff like that. But that's one of those ones that definitely should be double checked with a partner and should be weight tested before it goes.

02:01:29:21 - 02:01:30:07
Kyle
tested.

02:01:30:07 - 02:01:35:27
Kyle
Don't maybe don't do it for the first time by yourself on a multi pitch.

02:01:35:29 - 02:01:55:05
Kyle
Don't like try new systems where consequences are high like it's dark. I also I'm a huge proponent of bringing in ATC with you regardless I always like I rap, I similar rap with Gregory's with my partner. Like that's how we repel obviously not every circumstance, but that's pretty much what we do, especially out here in Red Rock with all the bolts and anchors.

02:01:55:08 - 02:01:57:12
Kyle
But we both always have ATC with us.

02:01:57:15 - 02:02:09:15
Kyle
because you never know if similar grooving rapping isn't an option. And I don't want to be forced in a situation where the only way for me to get down is by using a rapture method or not block where it's not actually advantageous,

02:02:09:18 - 02:02:12:23
Kyle
or like who knows what else. Like you need to have be prepared.

02:02:12:24 - 02:02:16:16
Kyle
It's like, what is that extra piece of gear way or take up space? Nothing.

02:02:16:18 - 02:02:32:02
Jared
Yeah. And I mean that's that's almost like a good segue into like another thing. And maybe we're going to talk about this later too. But having other options like yeah, bring you should have more than one device to, to go, you know down a rope. You should also be able to go up a rope and have the knowledge on how to do that.

02:02:32:02 - 02:02:48:10
Jared
And that that doesn't need to, you know, you don't need to bring handle to centers and stuff like that. But there's so many little things out there. Like I always have a micro traction on my harness. I always have like a little tab lock on my harness, some little bit of call it a little hollow block. There's, you know, a sling.

02:02:48:10 - 02:03:09:21
Jared
You can use a sling as an ascender, like there's so many things out there. But where I'm going with that is it's so important that we as climbers, if you're going to venture into the multi-page world, you need to know how to do things other than climb and rappel, have a plan for, you know, self rescue. Have a plan for partner rescue.

02:03:09:21 - 02:03:25:02
Jared
If your lead climber falls, have a plan. If you're the lead climber in your bilayer has a heart attack, you know what I mean? Like, what are you going to do? Like how do you get down to him? Like have plans for these kind of things and there's a ton of resources. We're in this, this, this digital age now where you can figure out anything.

02:03:25:02 - 02:03:36:29
Jared
There's so many good YouTubers. I'm not saying that's the way I would highly recommend people to reach out and get some training. There's so many different you know, resources out there for, for good education. But.

02:03:36:29 - 02:03:37:23
Jared
Also know little.

02:03:37:23 - 02:04:15:07
Jared
Things like no more knots than a clove hitch and a figure eight like a munter hitch can do so much for us in this big, you know, trad like multi-page world. If you drop your ATC, you can still get down. There's there's ways of doing this and it surprises me a lot when we come across, climbers. You know, that when we're out there just climbing on my own recreationally or people that we're rescuing and stuff like that, that don't possess this knowledge, and I'm not saying that, you know, they're like, shame on them or anything, but we as climbers need to do a better job of pushing education, because I think it would just

02:04:15:07 - 02:04:19:16
Jared
keep things a lot safer for us and get us out of some of these situations, you know what I mean?

02:04:19:16 - 02:04:21:01
Jared
So

02:04:21:04 - 02:04:29:01
Kyle
The idea of a climbing gym in Vegas, like a big one, I think has been kind of, contested or at least political in a way.

02:04:29:04 - 02:04:49:26
Kyle
Do you feel like a gym would be a net positive for the climbing community here in, Vegas, or do you feel like it would be too much of a, like, trampoline for people to, like, get into the sport of climbing and be like, I'm going out to Red Rock because the access is so easy.

02:04:49:26 - 02:04:57:07
Kyle
Like, do you see more accidents and more ill education happening because of a gym like that, or do you think it would be

02:04:57:09 - 02:05:16:24
Jared
So it it's very it's funny that you bring this up and now we're now this is Jared talking and not like search and rescue right. This is just Jared the climber talking. There's there's rumors that there's a of. Yeah, there's a big climbing gym coming. Right. And and I'm loyal. Like, you know, I will always be loyal to, like, red rock climbing center.

02:05:16:24 - 02:05:33:15
Jared
I'll throw it out there. That's. Those are my, like, friends that own it. My son works there like, that's that's my home. And it always will be. But if you're not excited as a climber, that one of these mega gyms is coming, if you've never been to one, like we go to Salt Lake City a lot and get a climbing, those like we're the US climbing team climbs.

02:05:33:15 - 02:05:35:03
Jared
It's on real.

02:05:35:06 - 02:05:39:18
Kyle
Diego and I was depressed. When I came to Vegas, I found out there was no huge

02:05:39:20 - 02:06:01:28
Jared
So it's funny that you say that you're depressed. I actually kind of love the climbing gym scene here because it's it's full of climbers, you know what I mean? Yeah. They still get, like, visitors in the birthday parties and things like that. So to your point, do I think a mega gym coming here will increase the incidence that we have out in Red Rock?

02:06:02:01 - 02:06:02:21
Jared
Absolutely.

02:06:02:28 - 02:06:04:02
Jared
Yeah.

02:06:04:05 - 02:06:20:11
Jared
And and I'm not saying that in a negative way. And I again I'll, I'll repeat this. I'm excited for us to have a mayor Jim. Like I will always have my membership to my local gym that I love, but I will definitely go check out the mega gym and climb on some, you know, fun, futuristic climbing, gym holds and stuff like that.

02:06:20:13 - 02:06:39:23
Jared
But what those places do is they provide a very fun experience for just the average citizen to entice them to come in and try climbing. You know, going to some of these smaller gyms can be very intimidating for other people. And they're like, oh, you know, like, you know, but now you have this big one that also has like a weight room and all this, you know, showers and stuff like that.

02:06:39:23 - 02:07:00:10
Jared
And it's. Yeah, totally. Right. Like it's an experience. So yeah. Is it going to get more people, the 2 million plus people that we have in Las Vegas? Is it going to expose a lot more people to climbing? For sure. Do I think that starting your climbing career in a climbing gym is bad? No, I think that's the path for most people.

02:07:00:12 - 02:07:20:11
Jared
All I will ask and hope and you know, and I hope this message gets put out there, that if people decide to take it outside, that they do it the right way. They find mentors, they get educated. I hope that, you know, and I know like some of the local gyms do a good job of this, of talking to people and trying to encourage them to, you know, seek training and know what they're doing.

02:07:20:11 - 02:07:34:23
Jared
But climbing outside is night and day different. And the and we all know this as climbers, but the variables are just so much more uncontrollable and it's just such a different world, you know what I mean?

02:07:34:24 - 02:07:35:00
Jared
I think,

02:07:35:01 - 02:07:47:17
Kyle
Red Rock is particularly prone to these kind of accidents. Just because you mentioned like moderate, long, huge involved climbs that are technically easy.

02:07:47:20 - 02:07:58:12
Kyle
And so, you know, you, you, you climb in a gym and you're like, oh man, I climb 510. You know, I crash, I just red point in my 510. And so you go out and you're like, I'm going to try track climbing or I'm going to try whatever.

02:07:58:12 - 02:08:05:15
Kyle
And you're like, oh, five 6 or 5 seven should be super easy. I mean, recipe for disaster real

02:08:05:17 - 02:08:14:04
Jared
Yeah. I it's very rare for us to do like a rescue on, like, the rainbow wall or. You know what I mean?

02:08:14:06 - 02:08:29:10
Jared
It's it's very rare. It's like you said, it's an it's a lot of that. People underestimate Red Rock all the time. And that's where I think that exposing a lot more people to climbing, which I think is awesome.

02:08:29:12 - 02:08:48:09
Jared
I think, you know, like I love sharing this with people I don't necessarily love, like the big lines on some of the climbs sometimes, but I think that that will, you know, unfortunately, be somewhat of a byproduct of, you know, a big gym like that. But yeah, people get on these routes and they're like, oh yeah, I just have it, no big deal.

02:08:48:09 - 02:09:06:16
Jared
And it's epic. And it's epinephrine and five nine. That one gets more people then, I mean, to the point where, you know, it is a couple of years ago, like the team actually put a cash box up there with like, you know, some puffy jackets and like extra water and food and gloves and stuff like that. The helicopter.

02:09:06:18 - 02:09:07:07
Jared
Yeah.

02:09:07:09 - 02:09:14:04
Jared
You know, and I got on up there. Come on. You know, we have a hoist capability, but, we need to get there and restock that because I know it's been pillaged, and that's.

02:09:14:08 - 02:09:16:10
Kyle
How often is it restocked.

02:09:16:13 - 02:09:19:24
Jared
That's a good question. We try to get to a regulatory that needs to be restocked.

02:09:19:26 - 02:09:20:12
Jared
I'll just say.

02:09:20:13 - 02:09:22:26
Jared
That.

02:09:22:28 - 02:09:25:07
Jared
Yeah. For sure. I mean, you know, we're.

02:09:25:10 - 02:09:26:28
Kyle
and opening and I was like, I don't

02:09:27:01 - 02:09:45:26
Jared
Yeah. The stuff that's getting put in the there's like sealed and stuff. So if it's not sealed, I mean, if somebody swapped fluids in a container, you know, I can't speak to that. But the stuff that we put in there is I mean, by all means, you know, it's it's going to be in there for, you know, a season if nobody uses it and then we'll, we'll go up and replace it.

02:09:45:26 - 02:10:10:13
Jared
But it's just little things like that because there's a reason that boxes up there. That's A59 like that's in most people's wheelhouse. But it's A59 chimney that's epically long and then has this just wild descent that can just sneak up and get you, you know what I mean? And so it, it has, it has caused a lot of rescues, which is why there's a big cash on it.

02:10:10:13 - 02:10:20:23
Jared
And that's a perfect example of that is you get people are like oh 511 in the gym's easy. I can easily go out and climb this and you're like, there's nothing in the gym that's like epinephrine, nothing.

02:10:20:29 - 02:10:46:15
Kyle
I mean, I mean, I've, I've been climbing for almost 12 years now and like, I just did a hard sport day on Saturday and then we did like a hard trad day on Sunday. Two completely different sports, totally, completely different sports. Like the movement is completely different. Like the amount of three dimensional awareness you have to have with your body to be able to pull off some of these, try even on easy tried climbs.

02:10:46:22 - 02:10:59:00
Kyle
You're like stemming like crazy. Like you're not finding that on a sport climb. You know, it's like you just because you can climb five, ten, five, 11 sport like some of it doesn't even transfer. It's like the movement is completely different.

02:10:59:03 - 02:11:07:19
Jared
Yeah. I mean you said it the best. They they're two completely different things. So like if I'm out, you know, with my son projecting something.

02:11:07:22 - 02:11:09:06
Jared
Like it's.

02:11:09:09 - 02:11:28:23
Jared
Much harder than what I'm going to go out and quote unquote project on Chad. Like, I'm, I'm typically not projecting routes like there is some fun little like one pitch climbs that are like, okay, let's rehearse this on top row, figure out the gear, and then let's see if we can get this, like, you know, cool, whatever. But yeah, it's a totally different thing, right.

02:11:28:23 - 02:11:56:05
Jared
And like that, like that sometimes does not get communicated in the gyms. You know what I mean? Like because the gym is a sport climbing world, you know, and then you get out there and you're like, oh, I can do that. Like, yeah, it's wild. The wrestling we had yesterday, you know, unfortunately younger, inexperienced climbers and the gear that we get did get to see if there's, I'll be honest with you, would not have held a fall and like, you know.

02:11:56:07 - 02:12:24:20
Jared
Well so this was Mr. Z, which is again another one of these moderate climbs, you know, five, seven moderate climb. Beautiful big line. But they got completely off route and in unknown territory with just chassis broken rock. And it was it was pretty heinous. And place some gear and the, the, the leader ended up getting to a point where he couldn't find any more place to, you know, put anything.

02:12:24:20 - 02:12:41:06
Jared
And now he's stuck and his Blair literally when I got to him told me because I asked him why he didn't put his approach shoes on and get himself more comfortable. And he's like, I was afraid the anchor was going to fail. So I just leaned against the rock all night and I didn't want my I wanted my climbing shoes on so I didn't slip.

02:12:41:09 - 02:13:01:29
Jared
And, you know, I think the anchor was I'd give it a five out of ten. Yeah. But there was definitely pieces on that wall that that would not have held. I felt fall and this is not a knock on, on those individuals at all, but it's just a testament to we get a lot of people that just go outside and just try to figure it out on their own.

02:13:02:02 - 02:13:19:27
Jared
And when it comes to sport climbing, sometimes you can get away with that. Especially nowadays with everything having like masses or pigtails or whatever at the top, where it's just super simple, right? Like we've made it pretty safe to climb. The trad is not that place. Gear is an art and you got to know how to do it.

02:13:19:27 - 02:13:25:18
Jared
And there's so much like, you know, minutia that comes into it. And it's super tricky.

02:13:25:25 - 02:13:31:00
Kyle
not straightforward. I had someone come down from Canada. I was like on A57 was like, I don't know how to protect

02:13:31:02 - 02:13:32:10
Jared
right. Yeah.

02:13:32:11 - 02:13:50:06
Jared
I mean we can do some cool stuff here. Like, you know, wrapping things around like chicken heads and natural features, but like there's sometimes you have to do that because the cracks so flared out or so Sandy that you're like, dude, there's there's no cam is going to hold me here. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's a it's a good place to learn if you have someone to teach you.

02:13:50:08 - 02:14:07:05
Jared
And that's what I, I just stress that enough. I, I can't stress that enough. Like if you're interested in getting into trad climbing. Heck yeah. Like I support you. That's my favorite. But don't do it on your own. Like find somebody that's a mentor. You got to have a mentor. Like, we all had a mentor to learn this.

02:14:07:05 - 02:14:10:06
Jared
You know, if you if you didn't, then you got lucky. Let's be honest.

02:14:10:09 - 02:14:17:17
Kyle
people are having a hard time finding mentors these days. I think, like, we're coming to this problem where there's too many climbers and not enough

02:14:17:20 - 02:14:20:03
Jared
Yeah I could I could see that.

02:14:20:05 - 02:14:39:14
Jared
Right. And I think that also comes into personality too. You know, climbing gyms are great places to meet people. I mean, here locally and I'm not, you know, supporting like, Facebook or anything like that, but we've got a Vegas Climbers group and there is always people posting on that group. We monitor it all the time because people post rescues on there sometimes, like, hey, I'm stuck on this route and I need help.

02:14:39:14 - 02:14:59:15
Jared
Like that happens and I will see it. Or like a friend will send it to me and be like, hey, did you see this? And I'm like, oh, is this happening right now? Yeah. I mean, seriously, it happens. But anyways, I mean, if if you're interested in getting on to that, reach out to the local climbing gyms, go on these Facebook groups because there's literally always people on there looking for climbing partners, and they'll put on their how much experience they have.

02:14:59:18 - 02:15:14:13
Jared
And then you can get to chat with people and determine relatively quickly if you know they have as much experience as they do. I mean, there's always going to be a gamble, right? But I feel like somebody that, you know, has some experience is going to be a little better than you just trying to figure it out on your own.

02:15:14:13 - 02:15:25:24
Jared
But, you know, it's it's a risky it's a risky thing to, you know, find new climbing partners sometimes do. Sometimes it pays off and other times it's like, oh, never mind. Like we're not doing that again. You know? So yeah.

02:15:25:24 - 02:15:26:16
Jared
But yeah,

02:15:26:16 - 02:15:41:05
Kyle
yeah, yeah, it's a tough one. And we've, we've spoken at length on this podcast about like mentors and how to approach that and like questions to ask. And I think the biggest thing is like, if you're trying to find someone to teach you something, try to bring something to the table

02:15:41:08 - 02:15:44:05
Kyle
like, and also don't just like, hey, bring me up this.

02:15:44:05 - 02:16:14:27
Kyle
It's like, hey, I have this goal in mind. I really want to do it. Here's what I know. Here's what I don't like, you know? Yeah. Just being straightforward about what you, what you can bring to the table. And even if it's like, even if you're the one that's like, hey, I really just want to follow you up this I'll buy you a six pack of beer afterward or, you know, whatever your offer is like, I'll, you know, there's there's something you can always do, but I think some, some people might go into it where it's just like the, a lot of, a lot of ask and not a lot of return.

02:16:15:01 - 02:16:18:03
Kyle
Yeah. It's like yeah, try to try to find what you can provide.

02:16:18:05 - 02:16:39:08
Jared
Yeah, I just got lucky, you know, in life, I just my climbing coach was my my mentor. I learned from a very early age. And then I've made some just amazing relationships here in Vegas. You know, years ago when I first moved here and honestly, like, my best climbing partner, I met like literally on a on a mountain project forum post, like, hey, looking for a climbing like this back in the day before.

02:16:39:10 - 02:16:57:12
Jared
You know, I don't want to date myself that much, but it was a long time ago and it was, you know, like, hey, looking for some climbing partners? And, you know, we started with just like, hey, let's go and do some casual sport climbing and stuff and feel each other out. And the next thing you know, like, we were taking off every climb out in Red Rock in like, just a fury and just we meshed so well and I learned so much from him.

02:16:57:12 - 02:17:13:02
Jared
And like you said, bringing something to table, I was able to offer, you know, things to him and stuff to and yeah, you know, and then you got to find a new mentor when you want to go into the big wall stuff, you know what I mean? Like, it's just it never stops. So like, never stop learning. I think that's the biggest thing to never think you know everything.

02:17:13:02 - 02:17:32:14
Jared
Because that's the one thing I love about being like on the search and rescue team is we have the luxury of getting to go to so many different schools and meeting so many different people that are collectively like gathering all of this, like modern information and techniques. And so you're just constantly just getting better and improving, you know, and like, you don't have to be on a search and rescue team to do that.

02:17:32:18 - 02:17:47:05
Jared
You can do that in your community. You can go and get classes. You could go and try to be a guide like, you know, have a buddy. This is going through the AMG school right now. He's actually one of our teammates and he's going to learn a ton doing that. You know what I mean?

02:17:47:05 - 02:17:48:21
Jared
So yeah,

02:17:48:23 - 02:18:20:11
Kyle
Yeah I mean speaking to a lot of guys recently too. And there's a lot of people offering like very curated classes like Introduction to Trad or Advanced Trad. Techniques like these are simple classes you could take. You don't have to go spend ten grand to get your AMG guide certification. Like you could literally go spend 400 bucks and like, get a wealth of knowledge all in a single day that you couldn't get anywhere else, or it would take a lot more time or luck to find someone that's willing to give you that information in such a condensed, focused manner.

02:18:20:14 - 02:18:26:02
Kyle
Yeah, I think there's a lot of resources out there that people are aware of or that are under utilized.

02:18:26:04 - 02:18:42:20
Jared
Sure. Yeah. And that's a great thing I, I think that's cool. That's more guides are starting to do that too. Right. Because there's definitely a market for it now. And that's exactly I was talking about. There's guides in pretty much every area of this country that you can reach out to to do that. So especially here in Vegas there's a ton.

02:18:42:23 - 02:18:43:15
Jared
So yeah

02:18:43:15 - 02:19:05:10
Kyle
I if I like if I were to go back and talk to myself like in the beginning I would, I would be like, dude, you like go get a little bit more knowledge. You know, I definitely was more of the trial by Fire kind of person than I, I survived, that's the only reason why I'm sitting here was like, talking like circling back a little bit towards kind of the the heavier stuff, I guess.

02:19:05:13 - 02:19:13:26
Kyle
You know, we talked about, like, a civilian casualty, but you've been either a part of or your, your detachment department,

02:19:13:28 - 02:19:14:14
Jared
Department

02:19:14:14 - 02:19:17:17
Kyle
department has had some actual SA officer deaths.

02:19:17:23 - 02:19:18:10
Jared
Yeah.

02:19:18:13 - 02:19:31:14
Kyle
Maybe bring bring one of those stories to light and, Yeah, I think it's just important to talk. You know, we talk about how, you know, I joked about the helicopter being like the most dangerous thing, but I think it's easy to forget just how much danger you guys actually put yourselves in.

02:19:31:17 - 02:19:33:13
Kyle
So I just want to paint that picture a little bit.

02:19:33:16 - 02:19:35:14
Jared
Yeah.

02:19:35:16 - 02:20:01:11
Jared
Unfortunately, our team, has lost two of our officers. Over the years. We had one in the late 90s. I didn't know, him. His name was Russell. I did not know him. He was before my time, but, he again, he was just a phenomenal human being. Had been on the search and rescue team for quite a long time.

02:20:01:11 - 02:20:19:11
Jared
And then him and another one of our officers were actually up climbing the Vegas hose monster. Which, for, you know, listeners or viewers that don't know, it's actually a nice climb here in Las Vegas. It's up in the Mount Charleston area. It comes in rarely. It's kind of like the unicorn ice climber around here.

02:20:19:16 - 02:20:19:21
Kyle
for.

02:20:19:21 - 02:20:19:25
Kyle
It.

02:20:19:27 - 02:20:23:12
Jared
Yeah, I've tried to climb that thing so many times.

02:20:23:14 - 02:20:46:15
Jared
But the, Yeah, unfortunately they were up there training, because we actually do quite a bit of alpine rescue here with Mount Charleston. You know, being almost 12,000ft, it it gets pretty snowy and alpine up there. So they were doing some training on that and unfortunately it did collapse and crush. Our officer, so he unfortunately died during that training accident.

02:20:46:17 - 02:21:09:06
Jared
More recent and a lot and even closer to home, especially for all of us are still on the team was, Officer Dave Van Buskirk, who was, our search and rescue officer, his we all have different call signs in his at the time was, SR three, which search and rescue three has just kind of kind of designates your your seniority in the unit.

02:21:09:09 - 02:21:28:05
Jared
That one's since been retired. And in fact, one of Dave's friends actually started a, a training company, you know, after the fact, with that as being like the name of the company, just, you know, it's kind of a tribute to him. But Dave was, he was the best. And his his was a very tragic accident.

02:21:28:05 - 02:21:53:04
Jared
It, it actually occurred in the middle of a rescue. You know, posthumously, he was awarded a lifesaving award for that rescue. There was a lost and injured, hiker that was stranded up near the Mount Charleston area, and they inserted Dave, this was an older helicopter platform that we had with an older hoist type system that was on it.

02:21:53:06 - 02:22:17:01
Jared
They use a different technique back then. You know, unfortunately, his accident was actually a catalyst for a lot of change. But, the long story short is that he was inserted and as he was rescuing the victim and hooking him up, and they brought the hoist back in, the best way I could describe it was is officially deemed a roll out.

02:22:17:01 - 02:22:47:01
Jared
But for climbers, the best way I could describe it was that the giant hook that was attaching Dave to it. Just think of back clipping a sport. You know, Quickdraw, that's about the best way I can describe it. So as the hoist was pulled out and it rolled, it unhooked Dave and unfortunately he fell to his death. But fortunately he was able to get the victim, secured onto the hook prior to him following.

02:22:47:01 - 02:22:57:18
Jared
So the victim was recovered and then, sadly, the team then had to to do a recovery of of Dave's body after that. So that one was, that was tragic, you.

02:22:57:18 - 02:22:58:25
Jared
Know, about.

02:22:58:27 - 02:23:28:18
Jared
12, almost 13 years ago now. So you know, like I had stated earlier, Dave was, a mentor to me, early on in my career. Yeah. And, man, he's missed by so many. You know, he was he was really passionate about being a Swat medic. You know, I came from the Swat team prior to search and rescue, and those guys still all wear his patch, to, you know, and, you know, to memorialize him, just, you know, so he's never forgotten.

02:23:28:21 - 02:23:53:03
Jared
Yeah. He was a phenomenal human being, but it just it just kind of goes to show that we love what we do. And, Dave, I know Dave wouldn't have done anything different. You know what I mean? He he was in it to help people. And that's what we're all in it for. And we know it's dangerous. And you know, we we always have Dave and and Russell like in the back of our minds knowing that like this job is inherently dangerous.

02:23:53:08 - 02:24:16:27
Jared
But you know what? It's worth it because people need help. And because of Dave's accident, though, like a lot of really positive changes across the not just with Metro, I'm talking across like the entire like, search and rescue world, you know what I mean? A lot of changes and stuff for me. Like we use completely different systems now that have no chance of that occurring.

02:24:16:29 - 02:24:36:10
Jared
You know, things have just been it's like anything things have just been modernized and improved and, and, you know, it's nobody's fault. It's almost like the the climb we were talking about the other day. There's just 1 in 1,000,000 chances of things happening. And that means sometimes that can happen. And unfortunately for Dave, that night, that was one of those things.

02:24:36:10 - 02:24:38:01
Jared
So yeah.

02:24:38:03 - 02:24:43:14
Kyle
Yeah, I mean it's it's like you said, there's there's a reason why you do it. And it's the same thing for climbing.

02:24:43:14 - 02:24:44:09
Kyle
You know.

02:24:44:11 - 02:25:01:00
Kyle
Chaos is waiting there for all of us, but we still choose to put ourselves into situations where it could strike. But I think we all, we all grapple with our own mortality in a way. And we I think we, whether we like to or not, we kind of do accept that that chance of randomness for the passion that we love to do.

02:25:01:05 - 02:25:03:08
Jared
Absolutely. Yeah. Oh.

02:25:03:13 - 02:25:18:24
Kyle
So some of these are like questions I've got from guests that were interested in in your, in your interview. And also some of these are a bit more philosophical, having had the context of everything we've talked about so far. So.

02:25:19:01 - 02:25:43:09
Kyle
the impact of the rescues that you've been on over this long period of time, like, has it changed your definition of what acceptable risk is as a climber in your recreational life? Or has there been any other changes to how you view the sport of climbing or the view of the mountains with all of this like intensity and experience that you've experienced with people?

02:25:43:11 - 02:26:02:24
Jared
Absolutely. Yeah, I think it has it seeing the things that like we see brings up a lot of like scenarios you would never even think of sometimes. You know what I mean? And it can be very eye opening. You're like, whoa, that that could have happened to me.

02:26:02:27 - 02:26:05:20
Jared
Just.

02:26:05:22 - 02:26:27:06
Jared
I hate to say it, but the one the other day, the one on Saturday, you know what I mean? Because, I mean, that's a climb I could see myself doing and, like, really trying to assess that gear and just figure it out. I. I'd be remiss if I didn't say I didn't like, you know, put myself in the patient's shoes and been like, Holy cow, this this is this could have been me.

02:26:27:06 - 02:26:46:04
Jared
This is the type of route I like to climb. You know what I mean? Like fun, spicy, like, you know, big, bold travel lines like, that's that's what I love. And I, I remember thinking that when I'm talking to him and I was like, wow, this dude's really experienced. And what happened with that? I don't know. And he doesn't know.

02:26:46:04 - 02:27:02:06
Jared
Was it a fluke? You know what I mean? And, so it's a I've seen some things like that over the years. And then also I like reading. I love reading accident reports. I hate to say that, but I love that the American Alpine Journal puts out that kind of stuff. I think there's a lot of knowledge that can be gained.

02:27:02:09 - 02:27:23:04
Jared
So just that information too. And then the rescues and stuff like that have definitely made me a lot more cautious of a climber. And I don't want to say slower. In some ways more efficient is because of training and things I've picked up, you know, through through that, but definitely.

02:27:23:06 - 02:27:45:18
Jared
More prudent on my not that I was, you know, lazy with my placements and stuff before, but I think I used to run stuff out more than I probably should. And I think we're all kind of guilty of that. Like, oh, I'm in comfy terrain, you know? But then there's times where we're climbing on sandstone, like just yesterday on the rescue, I blew a foot hole and literally got banged up on that rescue trying to to get to these people.

02:27:45:18 - 02:27:53:16
Jared
I mean, I caught myself, but I it it was another one of those moments where I'm like, man, you know, like we're not climbing on, you know.

02:27:53:16 - 02:27:53:26
Jared
Like.

02:27:54:02 - 02:28:15:22
Jared
Bulletproof, like indestructible, you know, rock here, you know, or anywhere really. So, yeah, it has definitely changed my perspective and made me slow down being a dad as well, especially having a, my, my son and my daughter, as well as in the climbing, you know, having them and then seeing some of this stuff makes me a lot more cautious with them, too.

02:28:15:25 - 02:28:34:20
Jared
I'm sure my son hates it, but I'm very cautious on on how much he's allowed to go out and do on his own without you know, like he's going to have a full on, you know, self rescue course before he ever gets to go out and lead a multi pitch by himself with a friend. And then you know, I, I parents didn't make me do that.

02:28:34:20 - 02:28:57:28
Jared
But my parents sent us to see what I've seen. Now you know what I mean. So I think with all of that. Yeah it's I just I've just become a lot more aware of how much is out of our control in that world. And we need to do everything that we can as climbers to mitigate that. And that sometimes means slowing down and placing more gear, even though you don't think you need to.

02:28:57:28 - 02:29:17:24
Jared
I think that's been a big takeaway for me because there's been so, you know, like several injuries that have occurred on climbs, not talking about Saturday, but other ones where there was plenty of places to place prone. It was a little bit run out and that ended up in some life threatening injuries, you know what I mean? And that could literally happen to any of us.

02:29:17:26 - 02:29:34:26
Kyle
yeah, it's interesting, you know, I think that our movement and our attachment to the rock is our first line of safety, but it also can, like, be this weird sense of too much safety where like, yeah. You sure? You said I'm comfy terrain, but it's like, just like the guy who fell on Saturday, he probably felt it's rock solid.

02:29:34:28 - 02:29:53:16
Kyle
And then all of a sudden you're falling. It's not like this lead up where it's like, oh my God, I'm going to fall. Now I need to play skier. It's like, oh, now you're in the air. It's like there's you had nothing. There was nothing you could do to prepare for that. And so, yeah, it's tough because, it's a hard thing to balance between choosing pro or just being run out in general.

02:29:53:19 - 02:29:55:01
Kyle
Sometimes it's required.

02:29:55:03 - 02:30:10:27
Jared
Yeah. I mean sometimes there is and that's, that's a risk we have to be willing to take. I'm just a lot more aware of it now. And I will find, I will find some micro places that usually I would skip more. So now in my older age and then I would have, you know, years ago.

02:30:10:27 - 02:30:11:16
Jared
So I'm

02:30:11:16 - 02:30:15:14
Kyle
also a huge proponent or proponent of a promoter of bringing more gear,

02:30:15:17 - 02:30:16:05
Kyle
like

02:30:16:08 - 02:30:23:20
Kyle
I'd say most of the climbing racks that are suggested on Mountain Project or Red Rock. It's like it says a double and bring in a triple.

02:30:23:23 - 02:30:25:20
Kyle
that's a triple I'm bringing for.

02:30:25:22 - 02:30:40:20
Jared
If it's a standard rack a standard rack to me. And Red rock is a double rock. Now a double rock to like three. The three is the one that sometimes is my one variable. Or I'm like, I've climbed this before. Like it's a waste. But other than that, I'm like, I don't care how much this weighs.

02:30:40:20 - 02:30:48:07
Jared
And gear has gotten so much lighter too that it's like there's no excuse, right? I mean, if you're doing something that's like a project,

02:30:48:07 - 02:30:48:17
Kyle
that's.

02:30:48:17 - 02:30:49:06
Kyle
A different story.

02:30:49:06 - 02:30:49:21
Jared
Totally.

02:30:49:24 - 02:30:51:20
Kyle
people are on setting these routes.

02:30:51:23 - 02:30:55:15
Kyle
And it's like an onsite rack is different than a flash rack

02:30:55:19 - 02:31:13:01
Kyle
or a red point rack. Like, you know, if I'll go back, you know, I what? I don't even know, like, any of these climbs, like, I'll come back at that climb with experience and I'll either bring more gear because I was like, man, I didn't have enough, or I'll bring way less because I know what I'm going to get myself into.

02:31:13:03 - 02:31:23:23
Kyle
But that that randomness, that variable of like, shirts has a double rack. But it's like, you know, maybe you're weak on a certain size, like bring it, bring extra finger sizes if you think you're going to be crushed on

02:31:23:25 - 02:31:40:13
Jared
100%. Yeah. Or if I find something that is at like my limit or I do project like I said, I'm like, I'm a huge fan of, like the whole pain point process now or I'm, you know, either like going out on top rope, soloing it and just rehearsing everything, including gear placement, and then I'm literally taking those pieces of gear, you know what I mean?

02:31:40:13 - 02:32:04:08
Jared
And like, because I know and I've got the whole route, like, that's that's just me now. Like being a much more cautious climber. I'm not pushing it. And like climbing at my limit on trad gear anymore. It's just. Yeah. And then maybe that is that like kind of going back to that last question as far as, like the search and rescue like view of things, it's is it worth it anymore?

02:32:04:11 - 02:32:10:03
Jared
You know what I mean? You know, so I mean, you can still go out and have a ton of fun. You know what?

02:32:10:03 - 02:32:12:09
Jared
I'm just. Yeah.

02:32:12:11 - 02:32:22:21
Kyle
from all that we've seen, like, what kind of percentage would you say of rescues are preventable by doing something before the accident happened?

02:32:22:24 - 02:32:25:09
Kyle
Versus like, chaos, like Saturday.

02:32:25:11 - 02:32:37:11
Jared
So on the climbing side of things, yeah, I would oh, I'm going to throw out some arbitrary like numbers here.

02:32:37:18 - 02:32:39:02
Kyle
one's going to hold you to the statistics.

02:32:39:08 - 02:32:56:27
Jared
I would say at least half of the rescues that we have done in the last year, I think could have been prevented. And where I'm going with that is, is information. It's people not researching these routes enough and knowing what they're getting themselves into.

02:32:56:27 - 02:32:58:06
Jared
I think that.

02:32:58:09 - 02:32:58:25
Jared
Gets.

02:32:58:25 - 02:33:21:11
Jared
People more than anything. And whether that's because, like, they didn't prepare themselves enough on like, you know, how to repel in this environment or just simply not understanding the route well enough and not or not being prepared for it to take them all day and then having to do a repel at night. And they didn't bring a headlamp and now they're just having an epic.

02:33:21:11 - 02:33:43:02
Jared
I mean, these are all things that are totally avoidable, and these are all things that we've seen quite a bit. The other big one is weather. And I know this is a hot topic, so we're not going to get on this whole like don't climb when it rains things. Yeah, that's not what this is about. But if you know a storm is coming because that's common, people will see that the storm is coming and they're like, oh, we got to go get it.

02:33:43:02 - 02:33:58:14
Jared
And now let's go climb now. But they don't come prepared for the storm. Like that's silly. You know, if you're going to be the guy. And I can't really blame you if, you know, like it's going to start raining and you want to get that one last climb and it's not supposed to rain until, you know, tonight.

02:33:58:17 - 02:33:59:19
Jared
Cool.

02:33:59:22 - 02:34:23:19
Jared
But be prepared to still be on the rock tonight if something bad happened and it started raining. Because now you're hypothermic. Because it dropped 40 degrees in the valley and you're wet now and you didn't bring enough layers or food or a headlamp. These are all things that totally could be preventable. So you could turn like a good, comfortable 70 degree day into a deadly 40 degree night with wind chill and rain.

02:34:23:19 - 02:34:36:11
Jared
And now you're literally hypothermic and you just became a level one because you didn't bring, you know, a rain jacket or a Houdini or a puffy or something, something, and a headlamp and, you know, planned for it

02:34:36:11 - 02:34:54:01
Kyle
other than a headlamp and like a situation like that with, like preparing for a storm, what are like some key items like so we talked about like being prepared mentally, knowledge, like being prepared for the situation you're going to be in, mentally. What about like things on your harness, things in your backpack, like what should people be bringing them?

02:34:54:07 - 02:34:57:29
Kyle
Maybe people are forgetting or just being negligent and not bringing to the

02:34:58:01 - 02:35:14:03
Jared
100%. I'm a huge fan of you'll always see me climbing if I'm on like a trad route, I'm either wearing a bullet pack or a small pack, or if I if it's a two rope type climb. Oftentimes what I'll do is bring like a tiny little haul bag. I got this little pencil rope bag and I like a tag line.

02:35:14:06 - 02:35:33:21
Jared
And I'll just literally like run that up the climbs with us and stuff like that, you know? I mean, that way I'm accomplishing two tasks. But either way, the things that are in that is always water, right? Like I'm one of those people that needs more water than most. I just, I don't know, I just have a I just never seem to get enough hydration.

02:35:33:21 - 02:35:53:02
Jared
But like that's something you need to know about yourself. So bring enough water for you and make sure your partner has enough water for them, right? Like oftentimes we'll see people trying to share an allergy and they thought they could get up this climb. And you know, they're trying to go light and fast. Sure. Right. So obviously water and some snacks those are those are always in my pack.

02:35:53:02 - 02:36:17:08
Jared
And those should always be in everybody's pack. Or even like, you know, pockets however you want to carry it. But that stuff should be clipped your harness and your pack, something like that. Chapstick is like one of my one things, and it's I'm telling you, it's a game changer. It always is with me. Because when you're out in the sun and you've been up there longer than you thought and like, man, that's just that's just a some morale that can be had out of just applying some chapstick.

02:36:17:16 - 02:36:35:03
Jared
And that's kind of joking but kind of serious too, because it's like those little things that keep you comfort, keep your head in the game. You know what I mean? Keep you comfortable like that. Keeps you from like, getting stressed out and agitated and making mistakes. Obviously layers. I don't care if it's, you know, a 90 degree day and you're climbing in the shade.

02:36:35:03 - 02:36:42:01
Jared
I still have a Houdini clip to me because it weighs nothing or it's in my pack. Like it just never leaves, you know what I mean?

02:36:42:04 - 02:36:42:15
Jared
I think a lot of

02:36:42:18 - 02:36:50:11
Kyle
people underestimate the sun to, like, if you're climbing in the sun, don't be in a t shirt, like, put on a sun hoodie. You got to cover up.

02:36:50:11 - 02:37:13:17
Jared
literally the next thing that I was going to say is, doesn't matter if it's spring, winter, summer or fall all year round, I'm always my base layer is always a sun shirt. Always like is even in the summertime out here. Even if I'm skiing in like the backcountry or something like that, I always have a sun shirt on just to keep the sun off of me, because that will destroy you quicker than anything.

02:37:13:19 - 02:37:30:28
Jared
And it's just such a versatile layer. It's, you know, the hood adds warmth. It, you know, provides shade. Like it's just a magical layer. Like if you have a sun shirt and a Houdini, like, you can do pretty well with those two things. Or like a light. You know, I keep saying Houdini is just like most climbers know what that is.

02:37:30:28 - 02:37:50:19
Jared
But like a light windbreaker, that's packable does so much a little bit of weather resistance, good wind resistance or retains heat, things like that. Right. When it starts getting colder, have a puffy, you know, there's puffy that fold up to the size of like a softball now. Like invest in good gear. But yeah, water, food, snacks and then again, headlamp.

02:37:50:22 - 02:38:09:13
Jared
Like even if you're getting like a dawn start and you're there as the sun's coming up, man, it's Murphy's Law the day you don't bring the headlamp. That's going to be the day that you get stuck with the rope stuck, or you're helping some other injured party or whatever, and you end up being on that wall. And the sun sets here early on, even in the summer, you know what I mean?

02:38:09:13 - 02:38:23:14
Jared
Like it's it gets darker in those canyons earlier than people think. So yeah, it's better to have it, not need it than need it and not have it. You know, like my dad used to say. So a headlamp is always in their food and water in some way or something that's, you know, and chapstick.

02:38:23:21 - 02:38:24:16
Kyle
knife.

02:38:24:18 - 02:38:25:25
Jared
yeah. Oh 100%.

02:38:25:25 - 02:38:34:06
Jared
Yeah. I keep a tiny little knife like in my chalk bag. I know there's ones that you can clip on your harness and stuff like that too. I always carry a little first aid kit as well.

02:38:34:06 - 02:38:34:11
Kyle
Yeah.

02:38:34:11 - 02:38:35:13
Kyle
What's in your first aid kit?

02:38:35:15 - 02:38:41:16
Jared
Yeah. So, a big thing that I keep in there. It sounds silly, but it's almost like a little trauma kit.

02:38:41:18 - 02:39:00:09
Jared
It's going to be stuff that can save your life when you need it, right? It's not like Band-Aids and stuff like that. It's literally like a tourniquet kit, because they're so valuable. And I can talk about a story on on brownstone wall where people had to do a makeshift tourniquet at climbers because they didn't have one. But I always have a little tourniquet in there, on out, a little tourniquet.

02:39:00:09 - 02:39:14:11
Jared
It's just don't take up that much room. And they're like, I have a tourniquet. I have one splint because you can do a lot with a splint, and I have some ace bandages, and then I have gauze that's very compressed and small that I can use for like, any sort of like bleeding or wound wrapping and stuff like that.

02:39:14:16 - 02:39:30:22
Jared
It's very light, it's very minimal. It's usually have a little bit of ibuprofen and Tylenol in there. That's just like my personal, you know, one that's in my pack. Obviously my med kit for Sara is way more involved than that. But, you know, just a little one that no matter what outdoor sport I'm doing, that's always with me.

02:39:30:22 - 02:39:49:15
Jared
And like a fanny pack or a backpack of some sort, you know what I mean? It's good to have obviously some sort of communication, too. So a big thing that we kind of talk about, and it's a lot for the, the hiking community, but we have this big thing called top five to stay alive. And it's, you know, we have billboards out there.

02:39:49:15 - 02:40:15:01
Jared
You can Google it. There's, you know, not billboards, I'm sorry, fliers. You'll see it at trailheads and stuff like that. And some of the climbing gyms. But the big thing is, is it's, you know, preparedness for going out there. So it's not necessarily it falls in line with what you're talking about. But the big thing is, is to tell someone where you're going, like, that's number one, tell someone the whole itinerary thing that we've kind of beat up a little bit here, that's number one is like, make sure somebody knows what you're doing and where you're going when you're coming back.

02:40:15:01 - 02:40:36:16
Jared
Right. The next one would be is like research the weather, like be aware of the conditions, both hot, cold, wind, rain, all that kind of stuff for where you're going, right? Absolutely. And then have some sort of aid with you, like a first aid kit, like some water, snacks, things like that. Have something for inclement weather, even if you don't expect it to be.

02:40:36:16 - 02:40:54:01
Jared
That's where I keep going to that Houdini thing. Like, these are all these top five that we're talking about, right? And then the last one is have like electronics. So have your phone know if there's going to be cell service in there. Talk to people. If you don't think there's going to be, even if you're just going to be in Red Rock on a climbing route, bring one of those little beacons with you.

02:40:54:01 - 02:41:09:26
Jared
Have a way of contacting people if you know things hit the fan, like if it gets bad. So like, those are our top five dogs. Stay alive. If you do all of those things, you know it. It basically sets you up for success.

02:41:09:29 - 02:41:18:22
Jared
Yeah. So I use so I use trail. Trail. Yeah. So the T is tell someone the R is research like whether the climbing route things like that.

02:41:18:22 - 02:41:39:08
Jared
The A would be aid for like first aid food water things like that. The eye is inclement weather like meaning be prepared for inclement weather as far as layers. And then the l kind of it's kind of contrived but like electronics seen it. I mean they're like, that's why, you know, but the L actually stands for I think if you use that, if you look up the trail acronym, we didn't invent it.

02:41:39:08 - 02:41:47:23
Jared
I think it stands for locator, like, you know, electronics. But for in my brain it's electronics. You know what I mean? So, yeah.

02:41:47:26 - 02:41:52:15
Kyle
Okay, wrap it up here.

02:41:52:17 - 02:42:19:27
Kyle
On a human perspective, you see people at their worst moments, sometimes both like a layer of someone who's injured or the partner of someone who's injured. Like, what have you learned about human behavior under stress? Like, do most people rise to the occasion, or is there like, section of people that collapse under the pressure? And what have you noticed about the two types of people?

02:42:19:27 - 02:42:23:20
Kyle
And like, how do you characterize the two people that respond in those different ways?

02:42:23:22 - 02:42:46:17
Jared
Yeah, I wish I wish I could say that everybody rose to the occasion. Right. But that is not the case. I feel like in the climbing community, especially with more experienced climbers, you know, that oftentimes you'll see those people rise to the occasion just because of what we're doing. There's so much like mental training going on, and you're constantly managing stress when you're climbing at like a higher level, right?

02:42:46:17 - 02:43:13:17
Jared
Or even even a just an adventurous climbing level. Oftentimes with our more inexperienced and younger people, the stress management, isn't nearly as good. So we we see the whole spectrum of stress management. And that's, I think, the best way to summarize, like my observations on like human behavior would be that it's just totally dependent on the person.

02:43:13:17 - 02:43:37:14
Jared
Everybody's going to react differently. Stress inoculation is totally a thing, right? Like the more you're exposed to stressful situations, not necessarily specific ones, but just anything is going to make you better at handling those situations. So people that are constantly subjected to that kind of stress are going to do well. So there's no saying like how people are going to react, you know, until you get to them and see.

02:43:37:14 - 02:43:58:14
Jared
But yeah, I've seen both ends of the spectrum. You know, like I said, Saturday, life threatening injuries and was totally handling it like a boss. Just cool, calm and collected, not panicking. I've had people that were cold and wet and were freaked out to the point where their behavior was that detrimental to their safety, you know, and they were starting to make mistakes.

02:43:58:14 - 02:44:20:12
Jared
As we're rescuing them, they're like reaching up, trying to unclip lanyards that aren't even theirs. Like, it can get pretty wild when it's lots of hand slapping. It's like, yeah, it's like like, you know, dealing with children sometimes. And I don't mean to disrespect any people, but like, I have literally had someone reach up and almost unclip my lanyard because they were so stressed.

02:44:20:12 - 02:44:41:28
Jared
Right. And like we're using two points and stuff like that in these situations. But still, you know what I mean. You've got somebody that's like, yeah, they've they've picked they're having the worst day of their life at that moment. And it's cold, it's raining, it's windy. And we're stuck 400ft off the ground hanging off some, you know, the little bolts in the wall.

02:44:42:00 - 02:45:00:09
Jared
And there's a lot of stuff connected in there like, you know, trying to just do what they think is the right thing. But, you know, I guess my biggest piece of advice is once we get there, let us just handle everything. Yeah. Let us handle everything because we'll get people just start reaching and grab it. And it's like I said, it's like, hey, you know, stop.

02:45:00:09 - 02:45:01:09
Jared
Don't do that.

02:45:01:12 - 02:45:09:13
Jared
You know? But yeah, there's we we get very,

02:45:09:16 - 02:45:22:06
Jared
Very interesting experiences with, with stress, to be sure. Yeah. So like, people will like, deal with it. I don't think I've had any two rescues that were the same as far as a stress level was concerned.

02:45:22:08 - 02:45:23:28
Kyle
Yeah, it's probably super subjective

02:45:24:00 - 02:45:26:07
Jared
Totally. Yeah.

02:45:26:09 - 02:45:29:23
Kyle
What about old hardware? Does old hardware ever cause accidents and red rock.

02:45:29:29 - 02:45:31:03
Jared
I know.

02:45:31:03 - 02:45:51:29
Jared
Are we talking about, like, fixed gear, like bolts and stuff like that? You know, that's an interesting question. And I wish there was more research out there about it. I don't know if there is. I think probably one of the only places, I mean, you could probably do some googling and stuff and maybe the, you know, accidents in North America might have some stuff on there and they might be a good resource for that.

02:45:52:01 - 02:46:27:08
Jared
I don't know, personally, of any rescues that we have done or any accidents that I have heard of that have been because of failed, like anchors or gear out in Red Rock. I do know we have a very good climbers coalition here, that has a really good like bolting policy and they're constantly on it. And I know people are really good about posting on Mountain Project, like, hey, I tried to tighten this bolt, this one's loose, and you'll see, the Southern Nevada Climate Coalition go on there and talk about like, hey, cool, thanks for the update.

02:46:27:08 - 02:46:47:20
Jared
We went out there today and we were able to replace this bolt, this, that and the other. So I know that's happening. But I can't speak to that. I can't I don't know of any instances where there's been an accident or injury or rescue because of any failed fixed gear or old hardware. Yeah. Nothing comes to mind on that.

02:46:47:24 - 02:46:47:27
Jared
You're

02:46:47:28 - 02:46:54:07
Kyle
you're not aware of any sort of agency keeping track of, like, that kind of data?

02:46:54:09 - 02:47:11:04
Jared
Not that I know of. No. You know, I think a good resource would be the, you know, the the Southern Nevada Climbers Coalition. Those guys have some really smart individuals there that are really plugged in with like the climbing community nationwide, not just here locally.

02:47:11:06 - 02:47:33:29
Jared
I think that American Alpine Journal has probably been kind of like the depository for a lot of the accident information over the years. I mean, that's literally the place they'd probably be a good place to reach out to. But me personally, I don't know. I know we keep obviously, records of all of our rescues. But that's not going to have that information.

02:47:33:29 - 02:47:35:08
Jared
Yeah, yeah. I think

02:47:35:11 - 02:47:46:06
Kyle
especially like you said, I think out here if, if you do come across like sketchy hardware, rusty bolts, big spinners or questionable gear, take a picture of it.

02:47:46:08 - 02:47:56:11
Kyle
And drop it off at the sink or even, at the very least, put it on the fake Vegas Climbers, Facebook group. So there's someone who has the connection you can actually like for that.

02:47:56:15 - 02:48:09:29
Jared
Or the mountain project, like, like page for that route. Right. You know, because that gets monitor and then, like you said, send it to, like, as many people as you can. I it's pretty rare to find that stuff now I think out there

02:48:10:03 - 02:48:11:08
Kyle
like I've come across a

02:48:11:10 - 02:48:14:10
Jared
it's got to be like more obscure type routes for sure.

02:48:14:10 - 02:48:14:24
Jared
Yeah.

02:48:15:01 - 02:48:19:16
Kyle
the alcohol wall has got some some shady hardware that needs to be fixed.

02:48:19:20 - 02:48:37:23
Jared
Yeah. That's still out there for sure. Especially when you start getting into the harder stuff, you know. But that's not seeing as much traffic. But yeah, I mean, the best thing you can do is just inform somebody. And there's so many ways to do that now. It's easy. Like every like I think most of the people on Vegas climbers are not from Vegas.

02:48:37:23 - 02:48:53:25
Jared
You know what I mean? Like it. That's a very, very popular Facebook group that has so much information and knowledge on it. So that's a perfect place to post that kind of stuff, you know? Yeah. Do your part as a climber. Don't just, you know, complain about it, you know like because then I love it. I love to see the comments about that.

02:48:53:25 - 02:49:05:04
Jared
When people are like, man, there's so many loose bolts on this. And then somebody else is like, well, why don't you learn how to revolt them or whatever, you know, like that's not what this is, but there's people out there that do want to fix these things. So just inform them,

02:49:05:04 - 02:49:05:06
Kyle
them.

02:49:05:08 - 02:49:11:12
Kyle
Yeah. I mean that's the for at the very least let people know it's there because you were there. You were the one like, take a picture of it.

02:49:11:15 - 02:49:29:11
Jared
Definitely. Yeah. And I know people are always like, oh, bring a little wrench to tighten them and stuff like, I, I'm cautious to tell people to do that because if you don't know what you're doing, like just tell someone, don't go messing with hardware. Like we don't want everybody out there carrying wrenches and turning bolts, right? Like so.

02:49:29:12 - 02:49:38:02
Jared
Yeah, yeah, it's just do your part. There's enough people out there that care and that actually get support to go out there and replace these bolts. So.

02:49:38:05 - 02:49:38:28
Jared
Yeah.

02:49:39:01 - 02:50:02:22
Kyle
Nice. Well, you know, after everything you've seen, like the mistakes the people have made, like the chaos, like the deaths, like, what about the mountains? Do you still have a passion for, What about. Sorry. Do you have a passion for. And, like, what continues to keep driving you to be in these environments and doing what you do?

02:50:02:25 - 02:50:36:10
Jared
Yeah. It's a lot of good questions. I'll roll in there. I'll start with the mountains. It's funny that you say that. I mean, climbing is literally been a majority of my life. You know, I'm in my 40s now. I've been climbing for over 30 of those. And it's just it's always just been like, you know, which is a major passion for me because, like, think about what you get to do and see, you know, I think one of my most memorable moments, specifically here in Red Rock is like topping out, there's a climb into Montana.

02:50:36:13 - 02:51:05:22
Jared
It's probably my favorite one out there. Not. And not because just the climb itself is so amazing, but you end up on this little perch, like up towards the. Yeah, right on Wilson. And the view that you get from that spot in my opinion, is like unrivaled. And it's usually like towards the end of the day. Right. So you're getting like just this, like magic light and stuff and like you look around and you're like, Holy cow, not only do I just do this thing like this amazing thing to get here, but then look where I am and how many people have stood in that spot.

02:51:05:22 - 02:51:32:17
Jared
I mean, a lot now, right? But not I mean, like maybe like 1% of the world, if that, like some super, like 0.1%, probably. Right. So it's to me it's it's exploring. It goes back to just that fundamental human nature of just exploring and getting away from like the chaos of everyday life of, you know, civilization. Not that I, you know, don't love people, you know, because that'll be the next part of your question.

02:51:32:19 - 02:52:02:04
Jared
But for me, it's like, that's my church. That's my like where I get to go and just be myself and explore with people that I love, whether that's friends or, you know, my kids, my wife, whomever. Like, I get to go out there and just be in these amazing places and do really hard things that are super rewarding with just amazing views and clean air and no sounds and just adventure, you know?

02:52:02:04 - 02:52:20:16
Jared
So that's I mean, that's to me, that's what climbing is all about. And that's why I go to the mountains and, you know, and all over this world, there's just so many places, you know, sleeping on a wall in Yosemite, like, come on, how amazing is that to wake up and have coffee on, like, a portal edge 2000ft off the ground or in Zion or something like that.

02:52:20:16 - 02:52:39:12
Jared
Like that's climbing, you know what I mean? And I think that's the other thing that's so alluring about climbing is there's so many different ways to do it, you know what I mean? Whether you're, you know, climbing mountains or ice climbing, you're rock climbing, sport climbing, like bouldering. I think like we said, climbing is such a broad term that you can just really get into it and they're all fun.

02:52:39:17 - 02:52:45:06
Jared
Right? Then you're asking, why? Why do I love soccer?

02:52:45:12 - 02:53:03:18
Kyle
Yeah. So, I mean, I could see, like, it being traumatic and it could potentially negatively impact, like, the way you view the world or the way you view climbing. It might muddy the the passion you have for the mountains. Like what about soccer still, you know, lights that fire. And it's something that you choose to do

02:53:03:21 - 02:53:05:05
Jared
Yeah.

02:53:05:07 - 02:53:24:21
Jared
Man, I mean, that's that's a tough question, right? Because I think it's always been in my nature. I mean, literally, I, I joined, joined the military in I 17 just I graduated high school. I really went right in the military because I wanted to, like, be a part of something bigger where, you know, like, had these ideas that like, I'm going to help our country.

02:53:24:21 - 02:53:39:04
Jared
I'm going to help like people, like it was just, I think, ingrained in me as a child, like for my dad. My dad was a police officer up in Montana, and it was just like he was a good man, you know, to me. And he was always like, just trying to help other people. And he instilled that in me.

02:53:39:04 - 02:54:02:29
Jared
And like, ever since I was a young kid, that's all I ever wanted to do. And now I'm still a kid inside, but I'm, you know, a grown adult. And it's like, I still just want to help people. And now I get to do that in my favorite place in the world, which is the mountains, right? Like I get to help people that really need it, like they're having the worst day of their life in a lot of cases.

02:54:02:29 - 02:54:15:20
Jared
And I get to help them. I mean, if that's not, you know, motivating, like, what else is? You know what I mean? Like, like getting to help people, I think is.

02:54:15:20 - 02:54:16:13
Jared
It I.

02:54:16:13 - 02:54:33:24
Jared
Don't know, I know I keep repeating that, but it's just it's a hard thing to explain until you've gotten to do it. Like they don't even need to say thank you. You can just tell when you've got somebody that's like literally that bad off and, you know, you have the knowledge and the skills to be able to access them and do this thing where you can get them to safety.

02:54:33:24 - 02:54:58:23
Jared
Like it's a pretty remarkable experience and it's very rewarding. And you know what I mean? Like, you work really hard to to do these things. And it's it's it's just it's almost becomes I hate to use the word addicting, but it keeps you coming back because you realize it's something that like, not everybody can do and people need help and you can do it.

02:54:58:23 - 02:55:00:27
Jared
So go do it and keep doing it. You know what I mean?

02:55:01:04 - 02:55:01:10
Jared
Like,

02:55:01:16 - 02:55:03:03
Kyle
I love that. I love that

02:55:03:10 - 02:55:04:11
Kyle
we need more people like

02:55:04:18 - 02:55:12:17
Jared
But I don't think it will ever. You're asking if it if it might jade me at all or make you jaded. I guess it'd be a better way to say that.

02:55:12:17 - 02:55:15:04
Jared
But I don't think it will ever.

02:55:15:06 - 02:55:32:16
Jared
Do that to me, because it's like the mountains, you know, they're just such a special place in the for everybody that, you know, shares that feeling. They don't need me to explain that. So I don't think you can ruin that. You I don't think you can even with, you know, you know, carnage and injury and stuff like that.

02:55:32:18 - 02:55:34:04
Jared
So yeah.

02:55:34:06 - 02:55:38:27
Kyle
Well awesome. Where can, people follow your story? Where can people follow what you're

02:55:39:02 - 02:56:01:28
Jared
So I think for it's definitely for our search and rescue team. One of our guys is that's that's his. That's his thing. He loves the social media and he's he's good at it. Right. So we can be reached on Instagram at Llvm, PD, sar, sar. So, that one's pretty popular. And then our Facebook is called Friends of Las Vegas Metro Search and Rescue.

02:56:01:28 - 02:56:21:09
Jared
It's kind of a long name. But normally if you just go to the LVM PD. Sorry, I will link to the Facebook as well. But those are both good places. Our officer that runs that, he checks the DMs on it frequently. We get a lot of people that reach out on there and have questions. Anything from like how to become a volunteer or what they can do to support.

02:56:21:12 - 02:56:30:16
Jared
We operate a lot on like donations and stuff like that. So it kind of does lead you to that, you know, to help support our volunteers with equipment and stuff like that too. There.

02:56:30:19 - 02:56:31:24
Kyle
page that people can donate to?

02:56:31:28 - 02:56:49:03
Jared
So we have a website llvm pd sa dawg and that's a good resource. Talks about like the our friends of Metro Foundation and different ways that they can kind of support the team in there. Yeah. So there's some good information on there. We also have a big five K coming up actually out in Red Rock.

02:56:49:10 - 02:57:02:10
Jared
We do it every we're starting to do it every year. I believe last year was the first year for it was very successful turnout. This year we've already got a ton of donors and sponsors on board. It's going to be a big event. It was, kind of Spring Mountain Ranch area out there, really fun event.

02:57:02:10 - 02:57:21:00
Jared
We usually do like a big helicopter show out there and kind of demos, some of like rescue stuff, like our K-9 officers will be out there. It's like a big fun family experience. And then obviously it goes to a good cause. So look that up. It's on the a lot of information online about it. I want to say it's April 18th or 19th.

02:57:21:03 - 02:57:27:29
Jared
The latter part of April. We got a lot of good info on there. But yeah. So you can reach us on all that kind of stuff and.

02:57:28:01 - 02:57:29:16
Jared
Yeah. Awesome.

02:57:29:18 - 02:57:40:13
Kyle
I appreciate you coming down. And, Jen, it's really, really great to meet you and appreciate everything you do and what you do for the SAR and, the team in general. And. Yeah, I just I appreciate your

02:57:40:16 - 02:57:45:08
Jared
Yeah. Kyle, thank you so much. And thanks for doing this. Like getting all this information out there. Have a great podcast I appreciate it.