111 | Taylor Martin: Alone on Big Walls - Five New First Ascents, Trauma Recovery, & Trans Identity

After being literally run over by a school bus in Atlanta, climber Taylor Martin rebuilt her life through big mountain pursuits and solo aid climbing. This episode dives deep into Taylor's five new Yosemite first ascents established in a single season, including several big and technical aid routes in Yosemite. We explore her 70-hour Hardrock 100 ski traverse with only one hour of sleep, advanced aid climbing techniques like back-looping and daisy soloing, and the psychological toll of spending days alone on big walls. Taylor opens up about navigating trans identity in competitive climbing and record-keeping, the traumatic recovery from devastating injuries, and why partnerships rank above performance despite climbing mostly solo. Topics include: A3/A4 aid climbing, traumatic brain injury recovery, solo endurance objectives, new route development in Yosemite, mental challenges of solitary big wall pushes, modern speed climbing ethics, and finding meaning beyond grades in mountain sports.

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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:07:07
Kyle
you know, it seems like your, your past, you know, was shaped by two, like, major accidents.

00:00:08:09 - 00:00:19:06
Kyle
And the first of them being, you know, an accident with your mom and in the car crash and then subsequently being literally run over by by a school bus.

00:00:19:12 - 00:00:39:21
Kyle
it seems, just so severe, almost like, you know, we're chuckling about it. It seems so severe. But, yeah, I mean, those those are some, some realities that you face. So, you know, ultimately to lay the foundation for, you know, the conversation and kind of what you've been through and, you know, ultimately who you are and who you've become.

00:00:39:28 - 00:00:46:00
Kyle
I love to, to dive into those, to kind of accidents and lay that foundation before we continue. So,

00:00:46:00 - 00:00:54:19
Kyle
as much as you'd like to share, I guess we'll start with the car accident with with your mother and then kind of, like, roll into the subsequent accident with the school bus.

00:00:54:19 - 00:01:16:29
Taylor
totally. Yeah. I guess, like, when I was really young, I was in this car accident with my mother. This young new driver, like, came out of a neighborhood and just totally did a 180, and, like, literally drifted around into the main road and then zoomed right back into the neighborhood. That was kind of their intention.

00:01:17:06 - 00:01:44:15
Taylor
They I guess they were just screwing around and, my mom was like, right there. And he didn't see her at all. And, it was like one of those early minivans that she had. There's like really Pontiac or Chrysler minivans, you know, like, there were, like, just a toaster. And like, she just plowed right into, and like, hey, you're going like 50mph or like 40mph and just totaled both cars.

00:01:44:15 - 00:02:00:19
Taylor
And, yeah, I like, got, like, a really bad traumatic brain injury. And kind of just woke up in a hospital afterward and, ended up having to deal with that for a lot of years after,

00:02:00:19 - 00:02:09:29
Kyle
do you know the actual, like, physiological impacts of the TBI that you had, or, like, was it a concussion? Like, do you know the physiological symptoms or the actual things that happen?

00:02:10:13 - 00:02:17:02
Taylor
If it's been so long, I it it's like almost an early memory for me. I think I was, like, in the first

00:02:18:10 - 00:02:20:24
Kyle
Wow. So super young.

00:02:20:24 - 00:02:37:06
Taylor
Yeah. And, yeah, it just really, impacted the next few years for me. I kind of fell back in school, and became pretty self conscious about education and how, you know, things were going.

00:02:37:06 - 00:02:57:09
Taylor
And I fell back in school pretty heavily. And then it just segue into like the next, you know, decade of my life, I guess, like, I don't want to, like, use it as an excuse, but like, I think that, like, it definitely didn't help, growing up in school and, I kind of, like, gave up on school in later even in high school, like.

00:02:57:12 - 00:03:04:09
Taylor
And yeah, it was just like not not a great, path to start going, I guess, like,

00:03:04:13 - 00:03:23:25
Kyle
It is interesting how, like, we can't let our past define us in order to achieve the things that we want to do in a way. But at the same time, it's like it's such some time. It's at sometimes it's such an anchor, but that you have to recognize it. It's really it's really hard to balance those two things sometimes.

00:03:23:25 - 00:03:43:06
Taylor
by now it's far in the past for me, and, like, it doesn't affect me anymore. I worry about, you know, the longer, you know, ongoing effects of traumatic brain injuries, and they've had other concussions in the, you know, more recent years. And, it's something that I, it's in the back of my mind is like that could become an issue, you know, someday,

00:03:43:06 - 00:03:45:19
Kyle
But as of now, you have zero symptoms

00:03:45:19 - 00:03:57:17
Taylor
I, I think I'm totally fine. I, you know, like, I have ADHD and, like, normal, just like, forgetfulness and, but, I don't know, I feel pretty normal.

00:03:57:17 - 00:04:01:00
Kyle
know what.

00:04:01:03 - 00:04:05:15
Kyle
What.

00:04:05:17 - 00:04:15:19
Kyle
Yeah. But you don't have like, any sort of symptomatic migraines or like memory loss or anything like that. That would be like clear cut, you know, you know, being able to draw back to that, that time.

00:04:16:02 - 00:04:24:15
Taylor
No, I don't think so. I mean, I get, like, at night, like climbing or skiing, like with a headlamp. I have some pretty bad migraines.

00:04:25:07 - 00:04:26:12
Kyle
Yeah.

00:04:26:12 - 00:04:38:06
Taylor
I don't know where they came from. They might be, like, genetic or just, like, it's just harsh lighting. I get these big aura migraines where, like, I have, like, a green donut around my vision.

00:04:38:08 - 00:04:49:15
Taylor
That could be. It's pretty distracting. And it's, like, almost like a hallucination. No way. There's, like, a big green light. And I usually have to just turn off my headlamp and close my eyes for about five minutes, and then it goes

00:04:50:20 - 00:04:51:23
Kyle
Interesting.

00:04:51:23 - 00:04:59:25
Taylor
And I think a lot of it just stems from dehydration. And then, you know, being in, you know, moving for a long time.

00:04:59:28 - 00:05:04:25
Taylor
But that's probably the only thing I've ever noticed with, like.

00:05:04:27 - 00:05:05:29
Taylor
Yeah.

00:05:05:29 - 00:05:25:18
Kyle
Now in, in the, in the film you had talked about kind of this like, you know, early onset struggle with kind of self-worth, identity, a lack of vision for the future. Did that all kind of like, stem the, like where in the timeline between these two accidents, did that kind of, like, struggle that you dealt with?

00:05:25:20 - 00:05:27:03
Kyle
Manifest itself?

00:05:27:26 - 00:06:12:06
Taylor
I think that it probably was throughout both. I mean, like, I think the first one was probably the catalyst for a lot of lack of self-confidence in school and, just feeling behind and feeling like maybe I was slow or something in schooling. But. Yeah. And then, like, the second one happened, like, right after I, left college, went to college for about a year and then dropped out and, like, got in this really bad accident about a year after that, with the bus and, yeah, they both just kind of culminated and, it was like time to move on and, like, change life and move into a new chapter.

00:06:12:06 - 00:06:33:23
Taylor
But I think, like when the second accident happened, I, was in a pretty low place already. And it was like kind of this moment of like I realized that I had another opportunity to actually wanted to, like, live life and like, I was kind of wasting it at the time. Yeah. I wasn't doing much with life.

00:06:33:23 - 00:06:50:25
Taylor
And, I just was like, well, I had this, like, I want to live now, and now hopefully I can, you know, like, hopefully I can walk again and, hopefully I can. And if I can, then I'm going to like, you know, push, push the gas pedal and like, live life to the fullest.

00:06:51:15 - 00:07:15:24
Kyle
Yeah. In the film, you had mentioned, pretty striking moment where you got, you know, you you were big into downhill skateboarding and you ultimately, you know, picked this downhill line and, and kind of, like, ran yourself into oncoming traffic, you know, accepting the consequences that that may have come the ended up not coming. It seems like a stark contrast to, the mentality that you ended up having after your second accident.

00:07:15:27 - 00:07:26:04
Kyle
What do you feel like was the big change there in terms of, like, seeing the world in a different light and kind of like making, you know, one decision versus the other?

00:07:26:06 - 00:07:56:27
Taylor
I think going I it was an ultimate low for me. That day, I just thought that, you know, like, there was no future, and I just needed to just move on. And in my life, I guess, like, So I decided I would just go into oncoming traffic at, like, 50mph and see what happens. And for some reason, there were no cars like, dunno, skateboarding is.

00:07:57:00 - 00:08:14:09
Taylor
Or at least it used to be overpopulated. We would go out and, you know, go quite fast on these roads like we would, usually stay in our lanes and like, if we're going around blind turns, like, we would definitely be in our lane. But I just chose to, like, blast every turn, like, at its apex.

00:08:14:09 - 00:08:40:03
Taylor
And, you know, I it was pretty dark. But, yeah, nothing happened. I got to the bottom of the road and just like, it's like, what am I doing? You know, this is pretty bad. But I was like, a construction worker, and, like, I was watching a lot of my friends, you know, graduate college and move on to careers.

00:08:40:03 - 00:08:56:15
Taylor
And, you know, I just didn't even, like, know what I was doing tomorrow. And I had this low paying job and it would do, you know, bad part of town in Atlanta. And, it just pretty low. But this whole the accident happened

00:08:58:07 - 00:09:15:28
Kyle
You know, what were the circumstances of the accident? Just so you know, obviously, I'm going to. I'm for sure going to, like, plug the film and get people to kind of go there and and watch. But just some people have kind of, a foundational understanding of what exactly happened to like, laid lay the foundation for what that accident actually was and what happened to you.

00:09:16:24 - 00:09:39:10
Taylor
Yeah. So I was, I commuted on my bicycle to work every day. I would take the bus or. Sorry, the Marta train. From my apartment. The the train station was across the street, so I just, you know, bike across the street and go through the city on the train and then bike, I think, like seven miles to work every morning.

00:09:39:12 - 00:10:04:09
Taylor
And just lovely bike ride. And I missed my train that morning and was on the next one and was about ten minutes late for work, and I was biking along the side of the road, and there was a lot of traffic and it was all just seemed like a big standstill. There were no cars moving and there's like four, 24 seats.

00:10:04:10 - 00:10:24:05
Taylor
Got a school bus just like turn to the right on like a side road. And, I just happened to be like, right in it's blind spot. And I hit the side of the bus and then, like, flew underneath it and it ran, like, right over my waist. And it was pretty intense. I was like, wow, this is really happening.

00:10:24:05 - 00:10:50:23
Taylor
Like, I'm getting run over by a giant vehicle right now. So, yeah, it was it was a really weird thing to watch happened, and I didn't lose consciousness. So I was kind of there for it the whole time. And it was just laying in the road, like, looking down, and I could see the inside of my pelvis just sticking through my pants.

00:10:50:25 - 00:11:07:01
Taylor
And I knew that, you know, I, at the very least, was, like, paralyzed. And I chose to, like, not move and like, stay as relaxed as possible and I just yelled at the top of my lungs, like, trying to get help.

00:11:07:01 - 00:11:13:12
Kyle
You had said in the film that you, like, basically thought you were going to die. Is that true?

00:11:13:14 - 00:11:15:00
Kyle
Like.

00:11:15:00 - 00:11:17:08
Taylor
that I was going to die in that moment.

00:11:17:11 - 00:11:39:09
Kyle
What was that experience like? I think that, like, I've spoken to so many people in this podcast that have been in obviously not the exact situation that you've been in, but similar situations where death was imminent or unavoidable and a lot of them have a similar experience. So I'm, I'm curious as to what your perception was.

00:11:40:08 - 00:12:07:05
Taylor
Yeah, I, I was just laying there, and, it started to rain a lot, which is, like, extra dramatic, you know? Like, it just is reading, And I just laid there, and the bus driver ran up and we locked hands. He was, like, holding my hand, and I couldn't see him. I just, like, saw his, like, silhouette, in, like, the street lab and, we, like, exchanged some words.

00:12:07:05 - 00:12:33:23
Taylor
I don't really remember what I said, but, I just it's like being. This is it. I'm this the last person I'm going to see, and, it's all going to be done. And it was really easy to be there in that moment. Just laying there, like, knowing that that's about I'm probably going to die, you know, like, but there was pretty and amazing, like, they're the reason why there was traffic.

00:12:33:23 - 00:13:01:24
Taylor
There was a whole nother accident that it occurred like down in an intersection below. And it was some false alarm, like just the, you know, no one was injured, but the paramedics were literally like maybe 100 yards away. And they like clear traffic and just bumped up to where I was and, put me in, a public finder, which is pretty serious thing, you know, like, it's essentially a tourniquet for your midsection.

00:13:01:27 - 00:13:21:11
Taylor
And I think I had a lot of internal bleeding. And your for mortal artery is like an a. It's like a very important, you know, massive artery in your body. And, I think that it didn't ruptured in the. I was just like, I don't know, like, it was just, like sheer luck that they were there.

00:13:21:14 - 00:13:35:26
Taylor
And I went, so, like, one of the best trauma centers in the United States, which is in downtown Atlanta. So, you know, just I got very lucky, and things. I didn't die, obviously I'm here, but,

00:13:36:07 - 00:13:55:23
Kyle
Well, and it seems like from the from the accident, you don't have any lasting injuries. You handled super well. You were super strict about that. And obviously you had this road of progression to get better. But, I mean, for someone who's gone through something that traumatic in that physically damaging, you've seemed to have recovered tremendously well.

00:13:56:15 - 00:13:57:08
Taylor
Yeah.

00:13:57:10 - 00:14:01:08
Taylor
I it's kind of weird. It's in some ways, feels like it didn't happen.

00:14:01:20 - 00:14:03:01
Kyle
Wow. Yeah.

00:14:03:01 - 00:14:08:08
Taylor
Which is hard to say. Almost. But it did happen in.

00:14:08:15 - 00:14:12:26
Kyle
Are you spiritual religious?

00:14:12:28 - 00:14:14:09
Kyle
Okay.

00:14:14:11 - 00:14:38:12
Kyle
Because the, you know, the the the phrase that comes up like, you know, everything happens for a reason. Do you, do you resonate with that phrase? Have you, added meaning to this survival? Do you feel like you're you're you owe a debt to the universe or the world in a way. Is there a purpose that you have left to fill, or is this all just chaos?

00:14:38:12 - 00:14:40:06
Kyle
And you were a victim of chaos?

00:14:40:14 - 00:15:05:03
Taylor
I'm not sure. I mean, yeah, that's a deep question. And it'll have a really clean cut answer for, I think sometimes, like, I go back and forth with it, you know, like, it's such a crazy thing. And I got super lucky. Even just like how the bus ran me over, like, it's like it could have been so different in so many ways.

00:15:05:05 - 00:15:18:03
Taylor
And, Yeah, I'm not sure. But I definitely think about those things, like, I go back and forth, knows how I feel about it, and.

00:15:18:05 - 00:15:18:14
Taylor
Yeah.

00:15:18:14 - 00:15:37:18
Kyle
yeah, I I've not had any thing as as severe as that, but I have definitely had a lot of close calls in my life where I should be dead, but literally came out unscathed. A lot of them were on the motorcycle, on the street bike that I. I continue to ride, but I'm much, much safer about it.

00:15:37:20 - 00:15:43:13
Kyle
But yeah, like, I don't know, for me personally, I feel like, you know.

00:15:44:22 - 00:15:59:01
Kyle
I try to attach some sort of meaning or logic to it where it's like, I don't know if, like, the universe or God or whatever you want to call it, you know, has a meaning for you to be here. It's like there's some sparring or luck that goes into it. And it's like our job to figure out, like what?

00:15:59:04 - 00:16:15:04
Kyle
What the hell that purpose is. And it almost inspires me to, like, live a fuller life. Right? It's like, you know, it's like a cat. You have a certain amount of lives and like, you get spared a couple, and it's like, man, like, I don't know. You know, not a lot of people get that many lives to even be spared in the first place.

00:16:15:04 - 00:16:20:14
Kyle
So, like, let me make the most of what I have. At least that's at least how I process it.

00:16:20:14 - 00:16:21:03
Taylor
Yeah.

00:16:21:03 - 00:17:03:11
Taylor
I do think that's kind of a takeaway of mine from the accident itself is like, I realize that I have another opportunity to. I realized that I had another opportunity to, like, do you know, or restart my life and, do things that I always, I've always wanted to do, but, you know, have always been too scared to do, and it's something I still work on because things are scary, but, I mean, I definitely know, like, it's like a daily, like, like thing I think about of, like, how can I, you know, what am I, you know, like, how do I want to live right now?

00:17:03:13 - 00:17:03:27
Taylor
It's like, really

00:17:05:17 - 00:17:05:28
Kyle
Yeah.

00:17:05:29 - 00:17:37:10
Kyle
That's awesome. That's beautiful. I have I have a question here. It's along the same lines here. It's, you know, I like to get into these deeper questions. So if it's, like, too much, like, just let me know, and I can just cut it out. It's totally fine. I can edit edit these things out. I'm just curious as to, like, you know, certain people go through traumas, you know, and I feel like sometimes the traumas break people and then and other in other circumstances, they, they use it as a platform or a foundation to build upon.

00:17:37:13 - 00:18:03:13
Kyle
You know what? It seems like you used your situation and your trauma in that situation with the with the bus accident as a platform to build upon. Have you analyzed why you feel like it? It ended up being processed that way and not being processed in like, further deterioration or further, melancholy or, you know, while the world is just ass and, you know, I don't deserve to be here.

00:18:03:13 - 00:18:09:23
Kyle
Like, have you thought about the shift in focus and why that was a catalyst for that?

00:18:09:23 - 00:18:39:05
Taylor
Yeah. Totally. I, I think I think about that a lot, and, like, I think I hit a crossroads within the the, you know, the recovering months post accident, where it was just like, how do I really want to how do you want this to go down? Like, I can be in my parents basement for the rest of my life and just be, you know, terribly sad and, or like, wait, I actually really love road cycling.

00:18:39:05 - 00:19:01:20
Taylor
I love mountains, and it's like, oh, well, I can just heart reset and like, try, you know, I have, like, this one chance to try, you know, and if that doesn't work, then, you know, like it as it gets. There's always the fallback of like being really sad again or you know, and that's the thing that light hearted, I guess, like it's actually pretty dark, but,

00:19:01:27 - 00:19:13:05
Kyle
You're like, this is as low as it can be. I can at least try. And if I have to come back here, I can go back here. It's it's, you know, air quotes. Comfortable. But I can at least try to move on from here.

00:19:13:05 - 00:19:14:12
Kyle
Yeah,

00:19:14:12 - 00:19:37:10
Taylor
there's only up from there. And like, I got back on the horse pretty fast. Like I like to move. I like to, you know, I can't sit still for very long and like, I remember, like, laying there and and the day after day and, you know, it was just like, this sucks. It really bad. And like, I just really want to ride my bike again.

00:19:37:13 - 00:19:50:28
Taylor
And so I figured out how to do it and, yeah, eventually started riding my bike again and, and I, you know, the notes do. So I rode my bike a lot. What I hear above and,

00:19:51:00 - 00:19:58:24
Kyle
Yeah. It's beautiful. You I think in the film you said that you did a 100 mile race six months after your accident.

00:19:58:24 - 00:20:00:20
Taylor
Yeah. Yeah. You did.

00:20:00:22 - 00:20:23:05
Taylor
That was crazy. I couldn't believe that. That actually, looking back, like. That's insane. But, Yeah, that was pretty cool. Like, I think it was like a couple months after I had, maybe within a month, even, like, the physical trainer came to our house and, helped me get on a stationary bike. We had, like, one of these, like, Cyclops trainers.

00:20:23:05 - 00:20:41:25
Taylor
It's like a thing you could put on the back wheel, and, you can just pedal in your house. On your actual bike. And, we, like, set up like, a pillow, and we like, duct tape it to the seat. And then I couldn't even, like, lift my leg, like I had torn muscles and, like, Yeah.

00:20:41:25 - 00:21:05:20
Taylor
Like, basically right at the hip joint. Like, I had this, like, huge, scarred, at the time, like, you know, I had fresh stitches and, I was really scared that they would just break when I got on the bike. And, I have all this hardware, and I like, he figured out how to get me on the bike, and he's like, you know, you're you got all this hardware in you.

00:21:05:20 - 00:21:25:27
Taylor
It's holding you together. It's not going to fall apart. You know, we I sat on it and I could sit on it, and he held me, and I just kind of pushed the pedals with, like, zero resistance. And then I think within like a week, I was on the bike for like 30 minutes with zero resistance. And then it was like I sat on it for like four hours.

00:21:26:00 - 00:21:27:19
Taylor
But like, because.

00:21:27:19 - 00:21:28:27
Taylor
I was it like the alternative was just

00:21:29:22 - 00:21:30:25
Kyle
Yeah, totally.

00:21:32:11 - 00:21:44:22
Taylor
pulled a little TV into my room and I'd watch, like, Netflix for hours and just, like, pedal until I couldn't do it anymore. Yeah. I couldn't even walk, but I could, like, bike, like,

00:21:46:25 - 00:21:51:03
Kyle
Yeah. That's what you said. You'd get off the bike and you'd use it as, like, a crutch. Yeah,

00:21:51:03 - 00:21:51:29
Taylor
yeah.

00:21:51:29 - 00:22:04:11
Kyle
I resonate with that, though, because I, I could at times I can climb better that I can walk after my injury. And so it's just a weird juxtaposition to be in. It's like the movement we love, we're better at than just walking around the world.

00:22:04:12 - 00:22:09:11
Kyle
It's funny how hard walking can be.

00:22:09:13 - 00:22:10:18
Kyle
Yeah.

00:22:10:21 - 00:22:14:12
Kyle
Gravity's. Gravity's a bitch sometimes.

00:22:14:12 - 00:22:15:10
Kyle
Yeah. And so

00:22:15:10 - 00:22:35:05
Kyle
you had this giant catalyst to move out west. You know, you left with just two backpacks. You had said that you let go of everything, all of the self-loathing included. So there was this physical sense that you were leaving and this also this mental sense of yourself that you were leaving behind.

00:22:35:08 - 00:22:44:26
Kyle
And you moved to the West. And you also have this quote here. You said life's too short to follow other people's rules. I really like that. And I felt like.

00:22:44:26 - 00:22:46:18
Kyle
That move.

00:22:46:21 - 00:22:55:24
Kyle
Coincided with that quote that you had, in my connecting that. Well, do you feel like those two things kind of, like, coincided with each other?

00:22:55:24 - 00:23:02:23
Taylor
I totally think so. Like, I was having, like. I think when I said that, I was, like, having a really

00:23:07:10 - 00:23:08:05
Kyle
Yeah, man.

00:23:08:08 - 00:23:09:25
Kyle
Yeah, for sure.

00:23:09:25 - 00:23:35:04
Taylor
But, it's so true. Like. Yeah, there's no other time for dogma in other people's, you know, how they feel about you. I mean, it's something that it's easy to say. It's much harder to be to deal with on the daily, but, Yeah, it's a good thing I think about often. So, like, I'm, I'm going to go out West, I'm going to like, figure it out, you know, like, yeah.

00:23:35:11 - 00:23:37:06
Taylor
And it took a lot of years. But yeah.

00:23:37:13 - 00:23:54:26
Kyle
Was it kind of like that small town narrative where it's like, you know, don't leave the small town. Like, you don't know what's out there. All the kind of, like, pressure from society to, like, not leave your small town because, I've seen that, like, I went to high school in Escondido, and there are so many people that I see on Facebook that have never left.

00:23:54:28 - 00:24:13:12
Kyle
And it's like, you know, get buried, have kids, never leave. It's the same small town. It's. And it's just wild to me. But I think that there's definitely that narrative. Is that was that part of the kind of like don't follow other people's rules as like, just like trying to keep you where you were, you know, scared to change, scared a move or was it a bit deeper or something else?

00:24:14:07 - 00:24:38:12
Taylor
I think that it just, like, boil down to I. I'm just not destined for something conventional. That I never was and was trying to fit a box that I didn't fit in. I think everyone that I knew is pretty psyched for me to go do something new and, like, try to, you know, better myself. I had a lot of support.

00:24:38:12 - 00:25:00:24
Kyle
That's cool that you had the support to, to move out there. I think that's, that's definitely key. You, you know, so you left the South and you moved kind of I guess quickly walk me through that progression a little bit in terms of like what that move is like where you ended up landing and I guess how that's led to kind of where you are today.

00:25:01:07 - 00:25:22:19
Taylor
Yeah, I I've kind of. I guess it's almost like I've been on the road in a way, like, since I've. I've lived in a lot of places since I came out west, primarily in the state of Utah. I come in and out of the state year after year, like, I, you know, it's like, kind of like almost a home state in a way.

00:25:22:21 - 00:25:46:24
Taylor
And I moved to southern Utah down in Cedar City. Pretty close to Brighton, had ski area and started working. There's live mechanic, and snow maker. So I did that for a few years. And then I fought fire in Idaho for a summer. And I love that job. I just liked my free time a little bit more than I like the job.

00:25:46:26 - 00:26:09:10
Taylor
So I only did it for a year, and then came to Alta and I've kind of been here ever since in some form or fashion. And then I did spend some time when Covid hit. I went to Colorado, and it's when I lived in that cabin that's in the movie. And that place is awesome, like living there.

00:26:09:10 - 00:26:29:27
Taylor
It was kind of like a fairy tale in a way. Like, and about a year and a half of living there, like, completely off the grid. And, that was cool. Like, I learned how to climb then, that was when I started rock climbing and ice climbing. I got my start with ice climbing more than rock climbing.

00:26:30:00 - 00:26:42:09
Taylor
And, but yeah, then just from there, like, I moved back to Alta and then out to California and, yeah, then a lot them have been all over the place.

00:26:44:02 - 00:26:46:09
Taylor
a lot of it just seasonal work, you

00:26:46:20 - 00:26:53:09
Kyle
Yeah. And now your circumstances is where you live in a boss and work for SA in Yosemite.

00:26:53:09 - 00:27:06:17
Taylor
Yeah. Yeah, I live in actually one of the tent cabins in the SAR site. But I do have, like, a pretty cool bus setup that, I use, like, in the shoulder seasons and, Yeah, it's it's pretty cool. But.

00:27:06:17 - 00:27:12:26
Kyle
And then in the winter, you're in Alta, in the in the mountains, in Utah. Doing snow work at the resort.

00:27:13:03 - 00:27:16:12
Taylor
Yeah. I like cook for the employees that live here.

00:27:16:12 - 00:27:23:29
Kyle
part of the reason why, you know, I, you you came onto my radar was, Because of all of this.

00:27:24:04 - 00:27:25:03
Kyle
Work.

00:27:25:05 - 00:27:28:06
Kyle
Establishing roots in Yosemite that you've done this last season.

00:27:29:11 - 00:28:09:17
Kyle
But before we jump into those stories, I'd like to lay this kind of foundation, with this element of, like, solid terror, like being solitary or being a, I want to say a lone, but that's kind of like, it's kind of like a weighted word. It's more just like, penal, I guess being alone with yourself, you know, it seems like from from the film and things that we've talked to, you know, each other about, it seems like there's, a struggle there, at some points in your life, and it seems like some of that showed up during the Hardrock 100 that you skied, which was wild.

00:28:09:20 - 00:28:25:01
Kyle
Again, something to reference in the film. So, you know, if I haven't already mentioned it in the intro, like, for sure, go check this out. I'll put it in the show notes. But it seems like at a certain point during that objective, when you were coming down, I forget to which town you were. I think you were coming down to.

00:28:25:01 - 00:28:52:07
Kyle
You're a you were like, this is it. It's over. I can't do this anymore. And it had been after kind of like this solitary push that you had been in. And after that, it seems like you had support from your friends for for a large majority of the last. Push talk to me about that, that, struggle you have with, solidarity or, being being alone in the mountains like, what is that experience like for you?

00:28:52:10 - 00:28:56:21
Kyle
And how have the, the ups and downs been, what that experience.

00:28:57:07 - 00:29:06:11
Taylor
Yeah, totally. I think I've always kind of operated in that way. It's very familiar to me.

00:29:06:29 - 00:29:08:11
Kyle
To to be alone.

00:29:08:11 - 00:29:14:19
Taylor
be like. Yeah, to be like, a solo adventurer, I guess. I guess I would word it,

00:29:14:19 - 00:29:16:01
Kyle
Yeah.

00:29:16:01 - 00:29:28:17
Taylor
it's much more familiar, and it's easier for me to make decisions on my own. A lot of times I spend with other people, I worry about them sometimes.

00:29:28:17 - 00:29:55:02
Taylor
Or like, I worry about how how it's all going to work out. Or it's just sometimes it's a lot easier to go out by myself in, in the mountains. But I think, like I did learn a lot on that one that like, support is really nice and like having, a partner, having, you know, friends be a part of an adventure is, makes it so much easier.

00:29:55:04 - 00:30:23:27
Taylor
Like, it's just so much more fun. It's just type one, you know, fun and and, Laughs. But I've always, kind of always treated mountains in like traveling alone like like a very like it's very sacred to me. And so I strive for that a lot of times. And, sometimes I do lose sight of how valuable it is to, you know, be out there with a partner and, to enjoy a space with someone else and experience with someone else.

00:30:23:27 - 00:30:38:04
Kyle
You have mentioned, though, I guess, in our in our meet and greet. And I think you had mentioned it in the show where there was some sort of psychological aspect to being solo. That, was a challenge in my misunderstanding that.

00:30:39:14 - 00:30:59:28
Taylor
I know, I think that, yeah, at times, especially early on in, like, my climbing career with the wall climbing, it's been pretty. It was really tough to cope with things that would come up. You know, there's no one else to really help you along. Or to move along the team. It's kind of like you have to figure it all out.

00:30:59:28 - 00:31:21:21
Taylor
And like, if when bad things happen, it's like a lot of it's how you respond to them. And, it was a really harsh learning curve. And like a lot of I spent a lot of time pretty frustrated, especially learning how to be more kind by myself. It was like a really steep learning curve, and I got my butt kicked on a lot of things, early on.

00:31:21:23 - 00:31:41:24
Taylor
But I think it's been interesting to see how the mind is, like, quieted over the years. And now it's like like things happen, like, all the time, you know, like, we're human and, like, mistakes happen and then, like, little things, weather happens and, you know, plans don't work out. Exactly. And, you know, more tired than I should be at times.

00:31:41:24 - 00:32:16:02
Taylor
And, yeah, it's a I have a much more quiet mind now, and I'm much more comfortable with making mistakes and like, dealing in the moment. But it's been like an interesting learning experience that it's can become really beautiful, to, like, acknowledge. It's like I have this moment to, like, take a step back and this is a training or like a, a learning experience for me or a chance to like, practice this like calmness, and that I don't need to react reacting, requires more energy.

00:32:16:02 - 00:32:25:18
Kyle
Yeah, I mean, it totally makes sense where, you know, especially learning a new skill with such high risk and so many intricacies, doing it on your own, trial and error.

00:32:25:18 - 00:32:44:20
Kyle
Like figuring out for yourself can be extremely mentally taxing, versus having a mentor or someone to share that experience with to bounce ideas off of, to, to be like to check you for them to check, you know, for them to check, you to check them then to check you. It's, it's a much more collaborative environment.

00:32:44:23 - 00:33:07:19
Kyle
But like you said, after a while, I can imagine, you find this peace and understanding and reflection where it's like, okay, well, like, I've learned so much, and I'm able to, like, apply these skills in a way that makes sense. And, Yeah. Solitary solitude in the mountains. I, I've, I've talked to so many people that have had just such a beautiful connection with that.

00:33:07:19 - 00:33:16:21
Kyle
And almost to the point where they prefer those experiences in the mountains by themselves. To, to have that kind of experience that they search for.

00:33:17:08 - 00:33:17:29
Taylor
Yeah.

00:33:18:02 - 00:33:40:10
Taylor
I, I think I am in that camp as well where I, It's not that I would rather. It's just that it just feels so I guess maybe. Is that a rather that it's like, a special thing to take to go out with another person and, like, experience something. And, I think a lot of times it's just like a sacred thing for me to go out and climb on to people by myself.

00:33:40:10 - 00:33:43:29
Taylor
But just it's like just my space.

00:33:44:02 - 00:33:45:07
Taylor
I don't know.

00:33:45:10 - 00:33:46:19
Taylor
It feels really nice.

00:33:46:26 - 00:34:08:12
Kyle
There is one person that said that they felt like it was when they're alone in the mountains, they feel like they can be themselves without any, you know, whether it's intentional or not, any judgment or any feeling like they need to perform, or act in any sort of way. It's like this purity of expression because there's no one else there.

00:34:08:14 - 00:34:10:14
Kyle
Do you resonate with that?

00:34:10:14 - 00:34:25:12
Taylor
I think I do, I definitely do with. With eight climbing. Harder. Eight. Climb it. A harder eight pitches can take a long time. Sometimes. And I've noticed that when I'm with a partner, I worry about them. Like, they must be so

00:34:30:20 - 00:34:32:02
Kyle
Yeah.

00:34:32:02 - 00:34:59:00
Taylor
can just blast music and, you know, stop and drink water and hang on a hook and, you know, just sit there and take it all in and, it's just so much more peaceful, I guess. And it's not even that a person who they are like, it's just like the energy that it brings. There's you know, like I start thinking about that instead of the climbing, or whatever it is.

00:34:59:03 - 00:35:19:15
Taylor
And like the Hardrock itself, like, I think it got to the point where things were getting kind of dangerous with my, like, where I was going mentally. I like, I've been hallucinating for like, a whole night. And then it was going into the next day and, yeah, I just didn't really feel like I had it mentally anymore.

00:35:19:17 - 00:35:27:16
Taylor
Where it would be safe to continue. And thankfully there were people to, like, go with me and like, we walked together for the rest of it.

00:35:27:16 - 00:35:32:19
Kyle
Yeah. It's wild. I think you were moving from 70 to 70 to 90. 90 something hours.

00:35:32:21 - 00:35:35:17
Taylor
It was like it was 70 hours,

00:35:35:23 - 00:35:38:27
Kyle
70 hours. And you said you had one hour of sleep.

00:35:38:27 - 00:35:39:22
Taylor
see, I slept for

00:35:41:28 - 00:35:47:08
Taylor
my friend's van, and you're in like a dream. Felt like it was a whole night's sleep. It was really cool.

00:35:47:08 - 00:35:48:24
Kyle
Wow, wow.

00:35:48:24 - 00:35:55:08
Taylor
I got up and, like, just went put a new pair of socks on, but my ski boots on and kept going.

00:35:55:13 - 00:36:10:00
Kyle
Wow. That's wild. I don't think I for sure have never been in that position where I could say I've been up for that long. I don't think many people can. Was that by choice? We were like, that was how you wanted to go into it. I'm not going to sleep like as much as I can for this entire objective.

00:36:10:02 - 00:36:12:00
Kyle
Are you going to stay moving?

00:36:12:00 - 00:36:31:12
Taylor
Yeah. It was. I just wanted to see how fast it could be done or that I could do it. It had been done before, and I kind of wanted to do it in a different style. Not to, like, discredit anyone. I just, like, thought maybe that I could go faster and maybe really see how deep it could all go.

00:36:31:12 - 00:36:43:01
Taylor
And, And, yeah, I didn't really know how long it was going to take. And I did train a lot that year and, like, got really good at vertical skiing.

00:36:43:03 - 00:36:44:03
Taylor
Like.

00:36:44:06 - 00:36:56:22
Taylor
I was skiing a lot of uphill that season. And I didn't have a job. I just, like, lived in a cabin and like, lived very frugally and just kind of, like, skied every day in the backcountry.

00:36:56:22 - 00:36:58:20
Kyle
It's awesome.

00:36:58:22 - 00:37:08:05
Kyle
Yeah. Really cool. Really cool accomplishment. It really insane that you like on cited most of it as well, because there wasn't much beta. Right. It's a trail run, not a ski.

00:37:08:10 - 00:37:10:16
Taylor
Yeah. It was kind of hard to follow the trail.

00:37:11:07 - 00:37:12:20
Kyle
Yeah. Totally.

00:37:12:20 - 00:37:33:07
Taylor
A lot of it. I used, Gaia in, like, you could kind of like, at night, you know, like, look at the map and see where it went and then ski for a little while and then look at the map again. And it was like, I feel like I was in a submarine at night, you know, skiing through these, like, frozen alpine balls.

00:37:33:09 - 00:37:34:24
Taylor
Yeah. Some of them were pretty huge.

00:37:34:24 - 00:37:37:17
Kyle
That's wild. Yeah.

00:37:37:20 - 00:37:43:08
Kyle
Has anybody repeated it since? That's cool.

00:37:43:08 - 00:37:53:27
Taylor
I was like, really into that kind of thing for a couple years and, kind of like, I just kind of last made psych for big long, like, mountain pushes like that.

00:37:53:27 - 00:38:04:29
Kyle
you had said, this is another quote of yours. It's always about chasing a limit and finding where that limit is. Speak a bit more to what that means to you.

00:38:05:02 - 00:38:33:05
Taylor
Yeah, I, I think like, that was a definitely that event was, a big one for me was like, feel it finding my own limit and then, like, realizing this is it, like, I can't go much farther than this, like, or any bit farther and, just consciously deciding to continue. And just like, ski or like, walk as hard as I could until I got to the, you know, the end, I guess.

00:38:33:05 - 00:38:54:01
Taylor
And, and then, like, I, had kind of always chased that in some way, I guess, with, like, other things. And, I maybe that's kind of how I like to, you know, you know, go through my, interests, I guess, like just sticking to the fullest and, find my limit within them.

00:38:54:01 - 00:39:07:27
Kyle
resonate with that a lot that that quote is like how I live my life as well. But I've also had it run me into issues, because you can't push the limits on things that will either get you arrested or kill you.

00:39:08:06 - 00:39:09:10
Taylor
Yeah. Totally.

00:39:09:15 - 00:39:09:25
Kyle
So

00:39:09:25 - 00:39:16:02
Kyle
how are you able to push that edge without it costing you, things that you can't recover from.

00:39:16:25 - 00:39:40:18
Taylor
Yeah, that's that's a good question. Yeah. I think a lot of that's like deciding in the moment of how things are feeling, how it's going, maybe a little like pep talk beforehand of like intention and like, how you want it to play out and like, what your turning point is or like decision point of like, this isn't gonna, you know, this is too far.

00:39:40:18 - 00:40:18:16
Taylor
Like a genuinely think that this is like, dangerous and, there's there's too many unknown variables. That's it's a big one for me. It's like there have to be a lot of known variables to go into something like that. And just knowing that, like, I like the odds are in my favor that this is going to be a good thing to do and to step out into, and I think with like, like rock climbing, you know, like that, that's like to the point where, like, you can't turn back with a lot of, like, climbs or like it's like something where it's like very committing.

00:40:18:18 - 00:40:34:17
Taylor
A lot of times there's I think a lot ahead of time before I would want to do something like that. Like it had to be like prerequisite climbs or like I had to check a few boxes before, I move into that goal or dream, I guess.

00:40:35:12 - 00:40:54:08
Kyle
So there's a much more logical one. Not more. But there's a logical approach to this limit that, you know, you're like, okay, this objective is way out there, but I'm going to prepare for it so that I can come to this limit with as much knowledge as possible and at the same time set this kind of like ceiling of like, okay, I know what will be too far.

00:40:54:08 - 00:40:59:14
Kyle
And if that's the case, I have a backup plan to either bail or remove myself from that situation.

00:41:00:13 - 00:41:28:06
Taylor
And then like I, I like to knowledge a lot of my outs within things like with big ridge traverses like knowing which drainage is like an exit down and like get to, you know, help or like a lot of that I do a lot of like pre-planning with that. And then a lot of it's just intuition, which can be kind of scary because, like, I mean, on a 70 hour effort, like, your intuitive brain

00:41:32:27 - 00:41:42:15
Taylor
seeing I had the craziest visuals, you know, like, I honestly like, when I left Telluride, I was hallucinating for miles that I was still

00:41:42:15 - 00:41:43:29
Taylor
in Telluride.

00:41:44:12 - 00:41:48:21
Kyle
That's wild. Yeah. I think you had said you thought the city just, like, kept going into the woods.

00:41:48:21 - 00:41:50:04
Kyle
Yeah.

00:41:50:04 - 00:42:12:12
Taylor
the all of the the buildings within the town, they don't. They're all like, kind of like, townhome style, like, very connected. And, we are going down this has been trail and like, I'd seen, like the the aspens just herded the buildings. They just kept going. And then after a couple minutes, I kind of noticed there's like, you know, I'm on snow and I'm skiing and town.

00:42:12:13 - 00:42:16:14
Taylor
It was all asphalt, I think. I mean, the mountains.

00:42:16:19 - 00:42:23:18
Kyle
That's the key. You just got to hallucinate to the point where you start teleporting, and then all your problems are gone.

00:42:23:20 - 00:42:27:08
Kyle
That's the secret to.

00:42:28:22 - 00:42:49:05
Taylor
Things like that kind of concern me a little bit, you know, with like, going forward, this big log link ups and I kind of don't like doing that stuff anymore. I got to the point where I'm like, this is pretty dangerous. Mostly decision making. You know, while being extremely fatigued is very dangerous combo.

00:42:49:08 - 00:42:52:20
Taylor
So it's kind of pulled back from that a little bit.

00:42:53:03 - 00:43:07:26
Kyle
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00:43:56:27 - 00:44:18:16
Kyle
Yeah. And it seems like you've focused your effort on first ascent big walls in Yosemite, at least for this last season. And I'd love to dive into this. So, you know, we had shared that there were five big ones that you'd done, if you just would like, you know, to for for people that are listening, list them real quick.

00:44:18:19 - 00:44:35:26
Kyle
And then, you know, I guess this is, this can be off record. So, we can dive into all five if you want. I, you know, I had asked to top three just because, you know, it would be like a more condensed version. But if talking about all five of them is interesting to you, it's interesting to me.

00:44:35:29 - 00:44:46:14
Kyle
So I'll, I'll leave that choice up to you. Like, also in terms of ordering them, like chronologically, do you want to start from one and go to the most recent, like how do you want to structure these stories?

00:44:47:19 - 00:44:53:06
Taylor
We could start from the beginning and just how I got into it. That works.

00:44:53:06 - 00:45:08:19
Kyle
Yeah. Let's do that. Yeah. So what, what inspired you to do first ascents in Yosemite in the style that you've been doing? It seems specific. It seems kind of uncharted territory. What was the precipice for this motivation?

00:45:09:13 - 00:45:42:05
Taylor
I, I guess, like reading the Sloan Guide and going through and seeing a lot of these weird routes that, like, no one climbs. It's just like, a lot of these are really interesting, actually. And they have cool names. And I kind of want to go climb a few of them, and it seemed more interesting than repeating trade routes, or climbing other, just other climbs that people climb all the time, you know, like or like repeated all cap routes or so.

00:45:42:05 - 00:46:07:16
Taylor
Yeah. Just seems really cool, you know, a really cool adventure. So I, I spent like, about half the summer, kind of like looking at walls through, you know, a telescope and found, there was only two routes or like three. No, there are four routes on the cape or wall. It's like this really obscure amphitheater wall behind camp four, that nobody climbs on.

00:46:07:16 - 00:46:30:22
Taylor
It's like just totally across first. And yeah, I went up there like, didn't know what I was doing. And just like, I think I drilled like two bolts in Indian Creek before I like, did like one single pitch or like two single pitch phase, that I never like listed or anything. And so just went for it and like, I like, walked to the base of the wall.

00:46:30:22 - 00:47:00:01
Taylor
I like, brought a rack and a rope and like, a couple bolts and like a drill and like, found the thing that inspired me the most and just started climbing up it, and, yeah, it was like this weird. A four first pitch that was, like, really hard, actually. It's like a slab, like hooking, like, I think it was like 7 or 8 hook moves off the ground and then, like, I like, placed a bolt, like, way over my head, know, it's like I'm going to make it super hard, like super scary.

00:47:00:03 - 00:47:05:04
Taylor
It like looking back, I was like, it's so dumb. Like, I should just like, picked something more fun.

00:47:05:04 - 00:47:07:07
Taylor
Like,

00:47:07:09 - 00:47:25:00
Taylor
But I didn't have, like, the right kind of balls. I didn't know very much about bolts, like, so I had these, like 3 or 4 inch bolts, you know, and it's like, you have to hand drill in Yosemite. So I was like a hand drill, like, over my head for like two hours, like hand drilling this, like, four inch bolt into

00:47:25:19 - 00:47:27:15
Kyle
Oh my gosh!

00:47:27:15 - 00:47:54:10
Taylor
totally pumped out of my mind, on a hook, like, like, drilled the bolt and then got onto it and, like, finished the pitch. It was like eight hours later, I had to anchor down it or something. And it's like, what are we doing up here? I think it's dumb. But yeah, I came back like the next day and like, did the second pitch and, took this massive fall on it and like, I got stung by a bunch of bees.

00:47:55:14 - 00:47:56:09
Taylor
It was.

00:47:56:12 - 00:48:14:17
Taylor
It was like this big bush that I was, like, trying to excavate. I was like, digging the bush out, and, I had, like, glacial glasses on, like, didn't have good peripherals. And, I was, like, digging out the bush with the back of my hammer. And, these flying like flies kept going around or looked like flies.

00:48:14:17 - 00:48:29:22
Taylor
Of course, flies kept flying around my head, and I was, like a beak or something, and, one of them bit me in the face or stung me in the face. And said, oh, that's a bee. Like I'm getting attacked by bees or wasps or something right now. And they

00:48:32:11 - 00:48:36:27
Kyle
Oh my God. Okay.

00:48:36:27 - 00:48:38:01
Taylor
like I say, have to do something.

00:48:38:01 - 00:49:05:18
Taylor
You know, I can't be right here and I can't go down. I'm like, on some kind of harder aid. So I started hooking up the slab to the right. It's like I just need to get away, like. Just like. And I. I got off, like, three hook moves, and I flew the feature that I was hooking on and, like, whipped and, like, ripped some pieces and then fell like 50 c, like down, towards the anchor and like, I had, like, one of the beaks, like, stabbed me in the butt.

00:49:06:13 - 00:49:10:19
Kyle
Oh!

00:49:10:21 - 00:49:18:14
Kyle
Holy shit! Oh!

00:49:18:14 - 00:49:41:01
Taylor
like, I got my pants were just, like, completely blown out in the back, so, like, like my ass is, like, totally exposed. And then I went up there and just, like, finished the pitch, like, I, I drilled a rivet below the bees, and then I drilled a bat hook and just, like, accepted as a getting stung and I just, like, drilled it and then got past them and they like didn't bother me anymore.

00:49:41:02 - 00:49:43:17
Taylor
They just didn't want me like excavating their

00:49:43:28 - 00:49:47:05
Kyle
Wow. Wow.

00:49:47:07 - 00:49:52:07
Kyle
So that's. That's the crux of the route for anybody that's going to continue.

00:49:52:10 - 00:49:54:16
Kyle
Yeah.

00:49:54:16 - 00:50:10:16
Taylor
them be. I didn't, like, deal with it, cause it would have been nice to continue straight above where they were. There was a really nice crack system. And I ended up doing this and a really interesting, like, other way that I had to, like, throw a hook on, like a long piece of quarter lead and hook a flake.

00:50:10:18 - 00:50:20:01
Taylor
And then I tied a, I tied like a bite in the bottom of it so I could put my eater into it. And then I could, like, stand tall enough to actually, like, hook onto that or grab onto the top

00:50:20:09 - 00:50:23:27
Kyle
Wow.

00:50:24:00 - 00:50:28:29
Kyle
It's like some Batman shit that.

00:50:28:29 - 00:50:30:24
Taylor
Engineering.

00:50:31:01 - 00:50:31:24
Kyle
Yeah,

00:50:31:24 - 00:50:49:16
Taylor
yeah, that that route was really cool. It was like, I like to go back and climbing again, and maybe replace some of the hardware with like, better hardware. But, yeah, it was cool route. And it took me like, I think like 15 days to do or something like that.

00:50:49:24 - 00:50:51:03
Kyle
What did you end up naming that?

00:50:51:03 - 00:50:54:15
Taylor
it's called the infinite now.

00:50:54:18 - 00:51:12:29
Taylor
Just like, super inspired by being in the moment and like, I'm going to go do a new route, you know, like I'm doing it and, Yeah. What up there? And, like, just climbed and figured it out, and it was a really cool experience. Like such a weird wall, you know, it's like it's the place and no one goes to.

00:51:12:29 - 00:51:26:23
Taylor
And, that was, like, special to me. Now, like, I, I've gone back since and climbed another route on it and, yeah, I kind of want to go back again next year to another one. Like, it's just a quirky, weird wall.

00:51:26:23 - 00:51:28:28
Kyle
another route on the same wall.

00:51:28:28 - 00:51:38:05
Taylor
Yeah. Yeah, it it's like 1500 feet of climbing and, it's just it's been an adventure every time I've been there.

00:51:38:05 - 00:51:39:13
Taylor
So,

00:51:39:24 - 00:51:43:15
Kyle
Is it. Is it on El Cap?

00:51:43:15 - 00:52:05:19
Taylor
No, it's like, when you're, when you're in camp four and you're camping, if you're at the midnight lightning boulder, and you look straight up to the right, there's a big amphitheater, and there's, like, this wall back there and, it's just, you know, people overlook it and they don't think of it as a big wall, but, it's a cool wall.

00:52:05:22 - 00:52:08:20
Taylor
There's actually some Cool Foot features on it. Yeah.

00:52:09:10 - 00:52:15:13
Kyle
And that was the first what first route that you have done this season. That was an aid for in Yosemite.

00:52:15:20 - 00:52:17:28
Taylor
Yeah. That one. That one was last year.

00:52:18:02 - 00:52:18:20
Kyle
Last year.

00:52:18:20 - 00:52:19:11
Kyle
Okay.

00:52:19:11 - 00:52:21:20
Taylor
And I did that in the heat of the summer,

00:52:21:20 - 00:52:23:02
Kyle
Oh.

00:52:23:02 - 00:52:26:22
Taylor
hot aspect. It's like on a southerly aspect.

00:52:29:18 - 00:52:35:15
Kyle
Are you just wanted to suffer.

00:52:35:15 - 00:52:40:06
Taylor
didn't I just really wanted to climb a new route. And then I found one and it's like, oh, you think I'm going to go up there and figure

00:52:40:06 - 00:52:41:18
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah.

00:52:41:21 - 00:52:42:14
Kyle
That's rad.

00:52:42:14 - 00:52:51:26
Kyle
And you. So you're leading up fixing an anchor, rappelling down, cleaning, chugging back up and doing the typical lead rope solo aid climbing system.

00:52:52:05 - 00:53:12:02
Taylor
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Three revolutions and, with that route, I think super high. So, like the ninth pitch. So I would like, jog up to, like, pitch nine and camp, and then I climbed, like, I didn't really commit to that wall very much. But it was just it was it was a new thing for me, so I didn't.

00:53:12:03 - 00:53:30:24
Taylor
I wanted to, like, stay safe and have a way out where I could just rap down if, something bad happened or. So I bought a lot of ropes and fixed, like, super high, and did, like, the last, like, four pitches in like three days or something like that, and just camped on a nice ledge. Yeah.

00:53:30:25 - 00:53:31:10
Taylor
That's cool.

00:53:31:10 - 00:53:32:20
Kyle
That's awesome.

00:53:32:22 - 00:53:34:15
Kyle
What was the next objective

00:53:34:25 - 00:54:00:24
Taylor
How did I climb this thing on the falls wall? Over near Yosemite Point Buttress. It's like right of the, Lost Arrow spire. And it's called Dirt Worm. It's this, like, really weird thing that, like, I guarantee no one would go climb it, but it, you know, it was like a month later, I was still really psyched that year and went up and climbed this like, y, you know, crack system.

00:54:00:24 - 00:54:23:23
Taylor
And I jumped over a couple of dihedral crack systems and joined some other routes and, it's more of a variation of like a couple climbs than it is a new essay. And like, Urkel got really mad at me after that one. I don't air calls this, like prolific big wall for synchronistic Yosemite and, kind of a crazy person.

00:54:23:25 - 00:54:25:01
Taylor
I shouldn't say that on a podcast,

00:54:27:14 - 00:54:32:13
Taylor
was wasn't very nice after I climbed it, he'd he'd, like, done some first ascent, over there and,

00:54:32:16 - 00:54:33:13
Kyle
What was this? Grape.

00:54:33:13 - 00:54:37:20
Taylor
he said that it was not a very interesting feature that I climbed on and that he

00:54:38:04 - 00:54:40:27
Kyle
What is he, the freaking feature? Police.

00:54:40:27 - 00:54:45:25
Taylor
know. Yeah. It's like, kind of blew my, I don't know, made me feel pretty bad after that.

00:54:45:25 - 00:54:52:21
Taylor
I was like, maybe I don't want to climb like, like this in Yosemite. If it's going to, I get if I'm going to get flack for you rooting.

00:54:52:21 - 00:54:53:24
Kyle
Wow.

00:54:53:24 - 00:55:03:09
Taylor
And like I could have emailed him about it, but like, I, I was sure as root went this one direction and apparently I climbed a couple of the pitches, it was one of his

00:55:04:19 - 00:55:08:12
Kyle
So he was just mad you used portion of his route for a variation.

00:55:08:12 - 00:55:31:24
Taylor
Yeah. And then I like, claimed it as a new FAA. And he was like, oh, we'd already climb those. And, he's really protective of that wall, and he's done a lot on that wall. And he's a really impressive, one of the most impressive big wall climbers that I've heard of. But it was kind of harsh hearing from one of your heroes, like, you suck.

00:55:34:11 - 00:55:37:04
Taylor
don't know, I don't meet your heroes or whatever,

00:55:37:21 - 00:55:38:24
Kyle
Yeah.

00:55:38:24 - 00:55:42:16
Taylor
didn't stop. Absolutely. Like rock climbing new routes. And I'm going to keep doing it.

00:55:42:27 - 00:55:57:03
Kyle
That's interesting to see. There's, like, this group of older climbers that are just so curmudgeonly. And then there's another group that have found peace, almost. It's very interesting to dissect the difference between the two of those kind of groups.

00:55:57:11 - 00:55:59:10
Taylor
Yeah. Totally.

00:56:00:10 - 00:56:08:13
Taylor
He's amazing climber, but I just, you know, it's it's just a different culture. And thankfully, it's not like that. And assimilating more.

00:56:08:27 - 00:56:11:02
Kyle
Totally, totally.

00:56:11:05 - 00:56:20:24
Kyle
Yeah. Did that role have any specific meaning to you or anything you learned specifically from from that route, other than that you were trotting on the toes of, curmudgeonly older climbers.

00:56:20:29 - 00:56:44:22
Taylor
Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, the thing I learned the most is, like, really do a lot of research. And, I've emailed him a lot since then with other features on other walls that are quite obscure, like, hey, if you climbed this one thing on this one wall, like the 9:00 wall, like there's this one like quarter, like you emailed him about it and he said he'd already climbed it, but, I don't know it.

00:56:44:24 - 00:56:47:18
Taylor
Yeah. Just do a lot more research and like,

00:56:47:27 - 00:57:10:17
Kyle
Yeah. So I guess what's the what's the ethics there? Because, like, how do you know if something's not documented or publicized? How do you know whether it's a true first ascent or not, especially in such a area that has seen so much development and traffic over the years? Like, what is that process like to actually validate whether something is a first ascent or not?

00:57:10:28 - 00:57:20:06
Taylor
Yeah, I do, yeah, that's a good question. You know, like, at the end of the day, I guess I would just call it a new variation to one of his routes.

00:57:20:08 - 00:57:39:02
Kyle
Totally. You know, I understand that that might be the modern interpretation of after the fact, but like, like, what's that process of actually validating whether or not something is a first ascent? It's like, is it this is a first set until someone proves me otherwise. Or like, you know, like, what's that? What's that process like?

00:57:39:02 - 00:57:49:19
Taylor
Yeah. A lot of that's like finding out later or like, oh so-and-so climb that or like, hey, we just, we climbed that in the 70s and like we just didn't document it and

00:57:49:23 - 00:57:55:26
Kyle
Well, then it's like, well, where's the proof? Right? It's like, show me papers. Or, you know, it's like.

00:57:55:26 - 00:58:12:02
Taylor
it's kind of cool in a way. It's like honor system, like we're climbing like a lot of it's like being super transparent and like, just being like, okay, they climbed it. They said they climbed it like it didn't have cameras, iPhones back then,

00:58:12:02 - 00:58:13:13
Kyle
that's true. Yeah.

00:58:13:13 - 00:58:14:24
Taylor
maybe they climbed it and

00:58:14:27 - 00:58:20:26
Kyle
Their wife lit their their first ascent book on fire. You know, you never know.

00:58:20:26 - 00:58:31:06
Taylor
It's kind of scary. I mean, like, you get really psyched about something, and, you know, it's pretty hard when you get, like, eight pitches off the ground of something you think is going to be rad. There's like a bunch of pitons. Absurd.

00:58:35:01 - 00:58:36:04
Kyle
Yeah.

00:58:36:06 - 00:58:56:01
Kyle
Yeah. Because, I mean, I would imagine the intention for these things is to establish a first ascent of some kind. Right. And so to really to realize that that's not the case. It's like, man, like, I just dedicated a lot of time for for something that's not exactly the vision I was hoping for.

00:58:56:04 - 00:59:01:25
Kyle
But.

00:59:01:28 - 00:59:05:00
Kyle
Totally.

00:59:05:00 - 00:59:16:28
Taylor
up and, like, not done enough research. So it boils down to a lot of, like, almost like psychotic research of, like figuring out, oh, this one random crack was probably climbed by this one person.

00:59:16:28 - 00:59:21:09
Taylor
And, the guidebook is a little wrong. And like, maybe it actually goes this way and, like,

00:59:21:14 - 00:59:22:20
Kyle
Oh, wild.

00:59:22:20 - 00:59:36:24
Taylor
deviating. And I think that route, like, I tiptoed a lot around a lot of other routes, like trying to put up a route and it's more just a variation. But it was a cool adventure. Yeah. It was really quite fun,

00:59:37:00 - 00:59:38:23
Kyle
Yeah. How tall was that and what did it go out.

00:59:39:12 - 01:00:12:09
Taylor
Oh, that's like a 1600 foot route. That's probably about an eight three route. And most of it's actually free climbing. It's like an easy moderate wide, like chimneys and like off within and stimming, of it. It's really cruiser like cruiser climbing for most of the route. And then you get into like a couple pitches of like, like one of the pitches that I repeated from another route was like a couple rivets that you ate on, and then there'd be like a couple bat hooks and then another rivet, and then the whole pitch was like that.

01:00:12:09 - 01:00:35:06
Taylor
But the way they drilled the rivets, you can't use standard thick, wire gauged, rivet hangers. You have to use these really thin, like two kilonewton rated, you know, like micro net cable, rivet hangers and so, like, the pitch is like, if you blow it in any point, like if one of those particles blow you, probably you're going to rip the entire pitch.

01:00:36:23 - 01:01:06:10
Taylor
it's rated a three. And like, yeah, it's kind of weird a way aid climbing is rated. It's it's like super dangerous. Like this. Particles are probably from like the 80s or the 70s, you know. And they had just like, it's pretty hard to commit to that kind of stuff and like, knowing that it's difficulty wise and only in a three pitches, I don't know, it's like a very weird grading system.

01:01:06:23 - 01:01:25:22
Kyle
Would you say that it was A3 when it was established? But because of the degradation of the rock itself, over time it's become like A4 ish. Is that kind of like the thing that happens to these roots over time, or is it just like a, a sand bag situation where, you know, just like free climbing, where it's like, oh, this is a five, nine plus plus.

01:01:25:22 - 01:01:29:28
Kyle
It's like, dude, this is a ten be, you know, is it kind of like that kind of situation?

01:01:29:28 - 01:01:36:28
Taylor
kind of. It's like, maybe like you'd see a route that's like A59 route. But for a 511 climber, you know,

01:01:37:29 - 01:01:39:08
Kyle
Okay. Yep.

01:01:39:08 - 01:01:53:18
Taylor
you like, A59 climber could do it, but, like, they'd be way out of their scope. Maybe it's kind of like that kind of situation, where, you know, like, you can totally do it and like, it's totally secure for most of it.

01:01:53:18 - 01:02:06:14
Taylor
But like, if something happens, you're in like A4, A4 plus terrain of like, consequences. Yeah. It's kind of a scary place to be in because, like, yeah, for obvious reasons.

01:02:09:08 - 01:02:30:08
Kyle
Yeah. I mean, I mean, just like free climbing, at least for trad climbing. I think there is a, an element of, soloing, at least in your mind that is required. You know, there are no fall zones that you find yourself in that you have to perform in those situations. So, I mean, it sounds similar with aid climbing.

01:02:30:08 - 01:02:33:15
Kyle
It's just like this is a no fall zone. I just have to be able to perform.

01:02:34:03 - 01:02:34:26
Taylor
Yeah.

01:02:34:28 - 01:02:40:08
Taylor
Yeah. Totally. Yeah. It's super serious for sure.

01:02:40:11 - 01:03:04:20
Kyle
How do you deal with that level of, you know, because there's, there's definitely certain types of people that can't or can't or choose not to handle that psychological aspect of of performance where it's, 100% or at least 99% on me to perform and make sure that my movement is my safety. Some people avoid that entirely.

01:03:04:23 - 01:03:22:09
Kyle
And other people thrive in that. It seems like that's something that you, at least are aware of the danger, but you thrive in that kind of situation. What are you what would you say about your personality? Is, something that that you allow yourself to be in that kind of space and allow yourself to to understand and perform in that risk.

01:03:23:02 - 01:03:24:29
Taylor
Yeah.

01:03:25:01 - 01:03:43:10
Taylor
I think a lot of it's just been like, I've accumulated a lot of time in that kind of scenario. And, I think maybe like, my brain is like, kind of, like adapted to it in a way. And like how I react to things is like, just more calm because it's like.

01:03:45:03 - 01:04:04:20
Taylor
You know, prolonged exposure to risk like that, like spending more time on, like, certain hooks you kind of get used to like, oh, this is a really good hook. Like, I know this is good. And, like, there's, like a whole mental process of, like. Or even the same thing with, like, reclining. It's like, I know that I have a really good gym right now.

01:04:04:20 - 01:04:29:06
Taylor
Like, I'm blocked off on this and like, there's no chance I'm coming out of this. I can go another move without placing a piece of gear. I feel very good. And I think it's like just developing that that, that mental, framework over a couple of years doing that kind of thing, like, yeah, these are great hooks, and I feel really good.

01:04:29:06 - 01:04:34:19
Taylor
I bounced, tested on them. I tested them many times. I'm going to go way up into this hook now.

01:04:34:19 - 01:04:46:22
Kyle
are you bounced testing hooks on a three like a three plus a four terrain. Are you testing them like in that way.

01:04:46:22 - 01:04:53:11
Kyle
Are you testing it in a way where if it failed, you still would be static on the initial thing that you're standing on.

01:04:54:01 - 01:04:55:04
Kyle
That.

01:04:55:06 - 01:04:58:15
Kyle
That seems like a pretty, like, specific skill

01:04:58:15 - 01:05:15:23
Taylor
I, I've kind of developed my own little way of doing it. Like I bring a third aid ladder. And so you're like, oh, see, you're on a hook and you're in your top step. You, you know, you put the next piece of gear and the ladder is going to be really high up, and so you're going to somehow climb up into that.

01:05:15:23 - 01:05:36:15
Taylor
Or you could use your daisy to like, bounce test. And then I use dynamic disease because if I fall, I like to have kind of a dynamic load onto my harness. If my daisy whip or something like that. So I bring a third aider that's like, cut really short, and I clip it onto the last rung of the new ladder.

01:05:36:18 - 01:05:57:19
Taylor
And that way I can stand in the top step and then, like, stand totally level and like bounce test from a safe stance. And, that works for me. I don't know, like, and I also use that for like when I'm in the top step for a long time, like placing a head, like I can use that little ladder to have both feet in the top steps and feel really comfortable.

01:05:59:05 - 01:06:00:14
Kyle
Interesting.

01:06:00:14 - 01:06:03:04
Taylor
like little random things that make it a little easier.

01:06:03:24 - 01:06:05:03
Kyle
That's awesome.

01:06:05:03 - 01:06:12:01
Taylor
every move. Everything. Even with, like, easy climbing. Like, I give it a good jerk for a, you know, climb up onto it.

01:06:12:01 - 01:06:28:04
Kyle
I feel like it's all. I mean, circumstantial for free climbing, too. I feel like at least in Red Rock here, I'm always just. It's subtle. It's just like a little bit of a test before I. At least if I know if it's inconsequential terrain, I'm going to, like, test the hold real quick. It's like, I don't I don't want something to just completely blow on me, you know?

01:06:28:12 - 01:06:30:11
Taylor
Yeah, totally. Yeah, I, I.

01:06:30:11 - 01:06:38:24
Taylor
Really like knowing what I'm on and, like, knowing what the lineup is below that, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, I've got, like, beats. Everything's been tested and,

01:06:42:16 - 01:06:48:04
Kyle
Yeah. That's wild. What was the, what was the next one on the list? Out of the out of the five or on number three?

01:06:48:04 - 01:07:18:03
Taylor
Yeah. So that was this year, on hummingbird. This, I sent a rock, right next to the sticks. Alethea put up a new root, that was previously attempted by a couple of SA siders back in the early 2000. Shane. No, not Shane Limpy. Everett Phillips and, gosh, I'm forgetting his name right now.

01:07:18:06 - 01:07:36:27
Taylor
But, yeah, a couple people tried it, and for life reasons, they had to bail. They they were taking too much time and like, they missed some date and had to come down. And, someone told me about it, and so I contacted them first and was like, hey, look, I would really like to go up and try this route if you're not going to go back.

01:07:36:27 - 01:08:00:23
Taylor
And, they were like, oh yeah, go for it. And they like, laughed and, and he like, made it seem like it wasn't that good of a route. And then like by the end of the conversation I was like, make you you're making you sound like it's kind of cool. Like, it's like it's a good route, like, it's like to think like the next week I went up and climbed the first pitch, and, I never found their anchors, so I climbed like, they build it their fourth pitch.

01:08:00:27 - 01:08:20:04
Taylor
And then when I got to my fourth pitch, I met their anchors. So I climbed, like, four brand new pitches up to where they build. And then, my fix down. I came back, quite a bit later, in August and, like, finished the route in like seven days. So

01:08:20:04 - 01:08:22:11
Kyle
On. Like in one. In one. Push

01:08:22:11 - 01:08:30:28
Taylor
yeah, I like, dropped my ropes and, then just like, brought a porter ledge and it's been like seven days up there, just like having a great time.

01:08:30:28 - 01:08:32:24
Taylor
Like, it was really fun.

01:08:33:25 - 01:08:35:26
Kyle
That's awesome.

01:08:35:26 - 01:08:45:08
Taylor
route, like, it's a big biking route, so, like, lots of bike hammering and, the rack is like 30 or 40 because I think,

01:08:45:29 - 01:08:54:22
Kyle
30 peaks. Wow.

01:08:54:25 - 01:09:22:07
Kyle
Oh, wow. Wow. Is. I would imagine, like, this is probably just a free climber aspect of just, like, looking at features in different ways. Because when you look at it as a free climber, you're just like, that looks impossible, you know? But as a climber, I would imagine, like, the possibilities just start to expand a bit more and you're just like, you get to climb these wild features that just seem so improbable.

01:09:22:09 - 01:09:24:00
Kyle
Sounds pretty cool.

01:09:24:00 - 01:09:49:15
Taylor
that's like the heart of it. Climbing for me is just like. Oh, man. Like we're out here on this vertical plane that no one should ever be on. And we're climbing it in some way, you know, and there's still free climbing, you know, like you do get out of the 80s and do some free moves above eight gear and, it usually has, you know, you're usually wearing boots of some sort and, it's it's really fun.

01:09:49:17 - 01:09:54:19
Taylor
Yeah. It's a cool way to combine skills and move in a weird way in the mountains.

01:09:55:07 - 01:09:59:09
Kyle
Yeah, totally. And the Sentinel is such an iconic piece of rock.

01:09:59:13 - 01:10:12:04
Taylor
Yeah, totally. This is, like, right up the prow. Like in between the west face and in the Sentinel or, sorry, the sticks out there. So it's like, right on the prow going up and, you know, caps right there and it's, it's got some cool boobies on

01:10:12:04 - 01:10:19:24
Kyle
That's awesome. You, You said you had a pretty big fall on that road.

01:10:19:24 - 01:10:28:06
Taylor
did I took a massive on that road and it was very I think it was pretty traumatic for me to, to go through and

01:10:28:27 - 01:10:32:18
Kyle
What were the circumstances of that fall actually happening?

01:10:32:25 - 01:10:38:08
Taylor
Yeah. A, a pitch that was like a upside down set of stairs, like

01:10:38:14 - 01:10:41:08
Kyle
Upside down. Oh, wow. Okay.

01:10:41:08 - 01:11:01:09
Taylor
roofs, for a long time. It's a pretty safe fall terrain, thankfully. And, climb the whole pitch. Got to the anchor, and I traverse at the anchor about 40ft to the right, and climbed up these ledges and found the best place for a baby for the night and, like, drilled the anchor and, set up the hull.

01:11:01:09 - 01:11:24:21
Taylor
And I wrapped down the whole line down a different rope. And so I went back down a different way. And when I got down to the previous anchor, I released the bags and started chugging up like you normally would. And I guess I like somewhere along the line, like a rope got pinched in, and there was quite a bit of slack in the system still.

01:11:24:24 - 01:11:53:05
Taylor
It got pinched in a crack somewhere, or like around a rock or, and I was jogging up this boat ladder that was at like a 45 degree angle, was like four bolts. And then when I got to the vertical part, I, you know, I redid it. So it was like, just in traversing, you know, for I need to read that pitch or that section, and I got to back on the jugs, I was weighted the rope and I started chugging and it, like, started slipping through the piece of gear.

01:11:53:05 - 01:12:13:23
Taylor
I was about to pull out of the wall, and I started sliding down just a little bit, and I was like, oh, okay. Like, here's a little bit of slack. And that I pumped it all out. You know, I jogged a little bit and got all the slack out. And, but I was starting to slide and, I like, kind of, like, just held on and, like, waited for it to stop, and it never really did.

01:12:13:23 - 01:12:36:23
Taylor
It was like I went down about 12ft like that, and then it just released, and there must have been like way more slack than I'd accounted for. That. I must have been hurrying. I sat there drawing the anchor for over an hour, or like, I'm sure I just like, missed something and, took this like 80ft freefall. Just like zooming down the wall.

01:12:36:23 - 01:13:02:14
Taylor
I mean, like, way past the whole bags and, way down through the next pitch and just, like, took this really long, like, bouncing fall, onto my jugs, and, I didn't I, I was, like, certain that I had, like, just not fixed the rope and, like, I was taking it, like, you know, a screamer to the ground and, thankfully, they all came to a stop.

01:13:02:14 - 01:13:22:15
Taylor
There was just, like, a lot of slack that I just stupidly not seen in the system somewhere. It scared the crap out of me when it happened. I was like, like, just, like, shaking and, like, yelled the whole time. I was, like, flying down and, yeah, it was really hard to joke that pitch and not knowing the

01:13:24:08 - 01:14:02:16
Kyle
Yeah. Because you had to jump back up out of that. Were you free hanging? Oh my God. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. Did you. So what was your point of connection to the rope? Just to ascenders. Okay. Yep. And what ended up arresting your fall? Was it the top eight or who?

01:14:02:19 - 01:14:04:05
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah.

01:14:06:05 - 01:14:13:04
Taylor
Somehow, like, it just didn't DC either, like, destroy the rope and, you know, break it all.

01:14:13:17 - 01:14:34:01
Kyle
Yeah. Because, I mean, that's like that's a large thing that people talk about is taking like follow falls on on aid. Right. When you're jogging and pitch is like if you don't pull the slack out and you whip or something like that, you're afraid of pulling the sheath out or breaking the rope. It's a wild that there was no local damage, at your point of contact,

01:14:34:01 - 01:14:55:03
Taylor
Yeah. And it was really eerie, chugging up the next, you know, 100ft, not seeing anything. You know, it was like, way below the gear. And, like, I clean the whole pitch. And then there was, like, a huge section, like, maybe like four feet, throughout the rope. Or I could just pinch it totally flat. And it was like the sheath was not broken.

01:14:55:03 - 01:15:26:28
Taylor
It was one of those aramid, swift protect ropes like the nine five, I think, it or it has, but like, it was, the sheath was fine, but I think the core had been damaged a little bit. And, I thankfully it brought a third rope and, like, just like, tied that one on. It's like a, like a backup, like, lower out line for the whole bags and, like, swap ropes and was good to go for the rest of the route, but, it was pretty, pretty scary.

01:15:27:00 - 01:15:27:25
Taylor
For sure.

01:15:28:10 - 01:15:33:24
Kyle
What, did you ever have like, a moment of like. That's it. I'm going down. That was too close.

01:15:34:17 - 01:15:55:21
Taylor
I honestly didn't. I was just like, that was bad. Like, it was really bad, but, like, I brought another rope for this situation, and I'm okay. Like, I have all my gear. I'm still psyched. I need to, like, think about this and, like, really slow down. You know, just be there for the night and in the morning.

01:15:55:21 - 01:16:01:16
Taylor
I think I just did, like, a pitch and, you know, ease back into climbing the next day.

01:16:02:21 - 01:16:08:17
Taylor
I had, like, I think like 10 or 12 days to do the route, so I was in no real hurry.

01:16:08:20 - 01:16:09:22
Taylor
And,

01:16:09:25 - 01:16:24:26
Taylor
Yeah, I just eased right back into it and felt okay. And I don't think I took another fall in or in taking an actual lead fall on the route. But, yeah, it was really scary, for sure. And, like, judging every pitch after that. It was pretty scary.

01:16:25:20 - 01:16:34:16
Kyle
Yeah. You're like testing everything. You're like, is this is this good? Yeah.

01:16:35:05 - 01:17:00:20
Kyle
Wild. Wild. Yeah. It's so interesting. Yeah. Trusting the gear versus trusting your hands and your feet. It's such a different experience. To, like, trust the systems that you're that you're building. When you were falling, there's, I've spoken to people who have gone through something similar, and there's like this sense of time dilation. Did you experience that?

01:17:00:24 - 01:17:17:11
Taylor
Yeah. I had some very clear thoughts of, like, Holy crap, I screwed up and I'm going to hit the ground now. And like, I mean, hit the flying buttress and that's it. You know, like in a verbalize. Did I, like, said it out loud as I was falling and, and then I just all came to a stop.

01:17:17:11 - 01:17:25:05
Taylor
I just a nice soft catch, with all that rope stretch. But it was really scary.

01:17:25:23 - 01:17:45:20
Kyle
Was there was there any sort of like thought process other than like this is what's happening that went through your head and sort of like processing or like thought or any sort of like, you know, element of, of reflection that came through during that moment of freefall.

01:17:45:20 - 01:17:56:04
Taylor
thought about the people. I would have to deal with it, and how much that was going to suck for them. And then I thought about the people.

01:17:56:06 - 01:17:56:20
Taylor
That.

01:17:56:20 - 01:18:09:16
Taylor
I knew closely that would be impacted by it, and just the whole. I had time to think about that. Which, yeah, pretty dark, but that's the reality of bad.

01:18:09:16 - 01:18:29:15
Kyle
yeah. I mean it's just a wild place to be in. It's almost like. Yeah. Not, not many of us can be in a situation where we are like essentially actively dying and have almost accepted that and then come out of it and realize that you're not on the other side. It's like, it's like someone who goes into, like a deep coma and then comes out of it.

01:18:29:15 - 01:18:47:19
Kyle
It's like, what was that experience like? You went on the other side, you know, it's just so it's so interesting and it's crazy that that's happened to you almost twice in a way where it's like, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm dying. And I'm mentally having to process that. And now it's like, oh, never mind. You know, you're not going to die.

01:18:47:22 - 01:18:48:19
Kyle
Yeah. It's wild.

01:18:48:19 - 01:18:53:13
Taylor
one was weird. Just like. Oh, I'm still attached to this.

01:18:53:17 - 01:19:13:02
Kyle
Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. So what's what's the role called on on the Sentinel? What does it go at? How tall is it? And were there any stand out, like, on the on the positive side, were there any stand out pitches where, like, you know, it's like, this is what you come for. This is the pitch that, you know, you should you should go do this route for.

01:19:13:10 - 01:19:35:14
Taylor
That one's called hummingbird, and I think it's about a 1600 foot route, and it goes at about a four. Maybe a three plus. It's like a four. And there's a really nice pitch, right at the correct pitch on the sticks with, there's this, like, green, like in, like, neon green, like in headwall, just to the right of the chimney.

01:19:35:14 - 01:20:04:03
Taylor
You go through like the narrows, like the, legendary. You know, it's everyone's, like, nervous about, it climbs like, to the right on the outside of that, just through this, like, neon headwall. That's like beautiful aid climbing, like it's meant to be climbed. It's like this awesome big theme that goes into, like, really easy cams and then, like, really thoughtful hooking, and, then this exits in a big corner and you're back up, like, in some weird unknown terrain.

01:20:04:03 - 01:20:11:22
Taylor
It's it's really cool. You can see it from the the valley floor is this big, like, lichen covered wall. I was like, that was the whole reason

01:20:13:20 - 01:20:20:22
Kyle
Oh cool. Sick. That's badass.

01:20:25:19 - 01:20:32:29
Kyle
That's awesome. Really cool. That's awesome that you saw it from the ground. And that was like, ultimately what you went for. That's really cool.

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Kyle
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01:21:24:22 - 01:21:36:01
Kyle
So that's three out of 4 or 3 out of five. What's four?

01:21:36:01 - 01:21:38:12
Taylor
Oh, no. It climbed Enzo. Enzo

01:21:38:12 - 01:21:41:04
Kyle
Enzo, I think that's what it was. Yep.

01:21:41:04 - 01:21:58:15
Taylor
Yeah. And that was really fun. We, we fixed a few pictures, of just like, really interesting corners. Kind of easier moderate climbing. The first pitches, like, super clean, would be a beautiful pitch on a cap.

01:21:58:17 - 01:22:18:25
Taylor
Like a two plus climbing and then, like. Yeah, it's a really natural climbing. I think we place, like, eight bolts on the whole root. Like one lead bolt that didn't really need to be there, but I just felt like in the moment, like it needed to be there. And, the top part of the root is really similar to the upper pitches of the nose.

01:22:18:28 - 01:22:37:23
Taylor
This very similar, like splitter cracks in a corner, kind of like kind of reminds me of, like, camp six going up above, like in the changing corners. It's really beautiful. And it would be really cool to go back, or someone should go back and try to free or, like, find a way through the the beginning pitches to climb those upper pitches.

01:22:37:25 - 01:22:46:19
Taylor
They're totally worthy of free climbing. And it'd probably be like mid 511 grade. But just classic cool reclaiming.

01:22:46:19 - 01:22:56:03
Kyle
Sweet. You heard them. But you heard them. Go, go after it.

01:22:56:05 - 01:23:06:11
Kyle
Yeah. Well you said that the route had a lot of meaning. The route name, the route name at least. Expand on that.

01:23:06:11 - 01:23:35:04
Taylor
former SA sider had passed the, the year before. And a lot of people were very close with him, and, he was very into like Zen and, Buddhism and, you wanted to be called in, so, and really liked that symbol. And I wasn't as close with him as. Oh. And was and a lot of the other SA siders, but, they felt like a nice tribute to name the route in.

01:23:35:04 - 01:23:51:04
Taylor
So after him, and, yeah, I think he would have been psyched to be there as well. So it just felt like, you know, just like a, you know, and tip of the hat to former SA sider that a lot of people loved.

01:23:52:03 - 01:23:57:27
Kyle
Totally. Yeah. That's awesome. What? SA cider. What does that word mean?

01:23:57:27 - 01:24:24:13
Taylor
like search and rescue. And then the site is like where everybody lives. So the search site is, like our little camp and camp for we have, like, these tents that we all live in and we stay there all season. And, just like, kind of wait for a rescue to happen, you know, we're on call 15 days out of the month, and we just rotate and people get different days off and, yeah, just go go through it like that and,

01:24:24:27 - 01:24:34:01
Kyle
Is there a difference between like Yosemite SA and Yosemite SA cider. Or is it just like that's the way it's termed for someone who's living in the valley in the site. And it is also SA.

01:24:34:03 - 01:24:53:08
Taylor
Yeah. It's like someone who lived on the site and worked search and rescue and, then you saw Yosemite. So, you know, that's just the the the job. And the group of people who go out and do that, but there's ten search siders every year and there's, you know, I think ten and 12, me as well.

01:24:53:11 - 01:24:58:23
Taylor
And, yeah, we just go out and do rescues when we're needed and,

01:24:58:25 - 01:24:59:16
Taylor
Yeah.

01:24:59:19 - 01:25:00:14
Taylor
That's what we do.

01:25:01:16 - 01:25:04:23
Kyle
It's a pretty small crew. Ten people.

01:25:04:23 - 01:25:34:09
Taylor
a tight knit, small family. And, we go out and we, we keep, beepers on us at all times and kind of, just go throughout our day. We need to be, like, 30 minutes near our socash, which is where all of our gear is. And, we'll get a page that goes out, and it's like, we need for people to go, for a rescue on the trail, and we'll go to the cache or bike there and, you know, talk through what what's happening, what's going to happen.

01:25:34:09 - 01:26:04:00
Taylor
And, yeah, just go out and do it. And there's other people that involved both in SA like the Lees with like the law enforcement. We'll go out with a couple of those people and then there's like our supervisors, there's the, the EMTs and like, park medics that also are involved and there's like, helicopter, like a helicopter rescue team.

01:26:04:02 - 01:26:10:12
Taylor
So there's actually, like, a lot of people involved, but there's ten designated, uncle sa siders throughout the season.

01:26:11:07 - 01:26:16:03
Taylor
That runs through, like, from, like April into, October.

01:26:17:01 - 01:26:21:12
Kyle
And this was your first year on business or cider.

01:26:21:12 - 01:26:36:04
Taylor
Yeah, this is my first year doing that, and, it's. Yeah, it's been a great job. I really like doing it. And, takes for the right type of persons, I think, like, so it feels good to, to do that and be a part of that group and.

01:26:36:26 - 01:26:39:20
Taylor
Get to perform rescues and learn in that environment.

01:26:40:07 - 01:26:46:02
Kyle
Totally. What have you felt like was some of the standout moments of your recent experience there?

01:26:47:03 - 01:27:11:16
Taylor
Yeah. I mean, the most stand out moment is probably just getting to meet everyone on the team and growing that camaraderie, and it's quite a family, actually. So it's been really great, getting to know those people and going out into like the not so into not so comfortable and, you know, situations and, performing, you know, a rescue with them.

01:27:11:18 - 01:27:32:05
Taylor
And then getting to go on like, helicopter rescues has been a real joy. You know, flying over the valley is really cool. And, getting plucked out of the air out of, you know, the backcountry and go back, you know, to the base is pretty cool. So rescues like that were probably the standout.

01:27:32:13 - 01:27:58:06
Kyle
that's cool. Yeah I think you know obviously users talked about a lot, but it's very rare I think for people to get like, perception of the other side, as it were. Right. I guess what are some misconceptions that you feel like the public might have about your XR, or that climbers might have about users that maybe aren't true or or things that just people don't know that are, important truth.

01:27:58:14 - 01:28:17:15
Taylor
Yeah, I definitely think there may be a few of those. Like, I think that a lot of people think of the site and the people on the team as like, high level, elite, cutting edge, you know, like and, like people are doing really cool things, you know, like, there's definitely some really cool things happening with people on the surf site.

01:28:17:18 - 01:28:38:21
Taylor
But I think that it's just a bunch of climbers who are really psyched and, you know, it's a very open and, like, friendly environment, you know, like, I think it's an intimidating place for a lot of people to go to, like the surf site. But, yeah, I think it's just like a bunch of goofy people who like to help people, you know, like at the end of the day.

01:28:38:21 - 01:28:39:23
Taylor
Like maybe back in like.

01:28:39:23 - 01:28:50:09
Taylor
The 80s or something, there is more like bravado and like, but it's just not that way anymore. It's a very friendly group of people. Who were very, very psyched.

01:28:50:09 - 01:29:02:07
Kyle
is with like the rescue there's like that common the common belief that it costs a bunch of money. Like does it cost people to get rescued by user.

01:29:02:28 - 01:29:05:15
Taylor
It kind of depends on the situation.

01:29:05:18 - 01:29:26:28
Taylor
And I don't know all of the details, but I do know that, like, if there's negligence or like, say, you're, like, doing something that's going to put other people in harm's way and you knowingly are doing this, and, you know, if there's any sort of, like, negligence, you know, you're probably going to get charged for rescue, within the park, like getting plucked off of a mountain in a helicopter.

01:29:26:28 - 01:29:49:18
Taylor
You're not going to get charged. As far as I know, unless until there's a transfer and you can leave the park. And that's when things change. Or like if you get into a park ambulance, like. Like people don't want to, but, like, you can totally go get checked out by a paramedic in the park. And, but like, once you leave the park and need you get transferred, there's that's a different story.

01:29:49:18 - 01:30:05:28
Taylor
You probably would get charged for that. You know, transfer. But not in the park. You won't get charged. Usually a lot of the rescues, we just take them to their car and, you know, make sure they're good to go. And, you know, that's it.

01:30:06:15 - 01:30:16:11
Kyle
You got it. You heard that people use summit cap call users so you can get back to your car. I'm just kidding.

01:30:16:11 - 01:30:17:07
Taylor
I mean.

01:30:17:10 - 01:30:33:11
Taylor
We we don't get as many calls as we you'd probably think and like, I think some people should call and they don't, you know, until it's a little bit, you know, there's there's no harm in calling. We a lot of times we just go up and, like, help somebody walk down, you know, they don't they're not psyched and like, they don't have any water.

01:30:33:11 - 01:30:52:15
Taylor
And we'll just bring him some water and electrolytes and like, walk them down. And that's, you know, most of our job is that actually, it's a lot less like that. It's like flying around in a helicopter. It's more like power hiking up a trail for, like, you know, half the day to go find somebody and getting them really psyched to come back down.

01:30:52:15 - 01:30:53:25
Taylor
is fun job. Yeah.

01:30:53:25 - 01:31:00:26
Kyle
Yeah. It's important as well. Got to keep these places accessible and keep people safe. So, hats off to you.

01:31:00:26 - 01:31:10:17
Kyle
I think there's one last aid climb that we haven't talked about. It might be, Ooh! Actor. React. Is that the one?

01:31:10:20 - 01:31:11:01
Taylor
Yeah.

01:31:11:02 - 01:31:35:25
Taylor
Yeah, that was like, I think I yeah, that one was the other one on the camp for a while. It was like pretty memorable. Yeah. I, had this vision of, like, it'd be really cool to find a way to climb that big wall from the ground up, and not use any bolts and do it in a 24 hour period, onsite, like, no, like no fixing, you know, no anything.

01:31:35:25 - 01:31:53:08
Taylor
I only walk to the base and, like, looked up and was like, yeah, this will probably be the way I go up this, and, so pretty like out there to think, like, think that that was something that I could do. But then it was, really fun, actually. It was like a really cool, like, pure way to climb.

01:31:53:10 - 01:32:14:05
Taylor
I just felt really right in the moment. And I brought like 100 meter nine one, like, like unicorn rope. That was like, really kind of light and long. The really long rope. So I could do this really long, 100 meter pitches. So the roof was about 1500 feet, and I think I did it in, like, six pitches.

01:32:14:07 - 01:32:26:09
Taylor
And, yeah, I just, like, would run the rope to the end, like, build an anchor and then like a gear anchor, wrap down, clean all the gear wrap 100m, the Jo 100m, and then reef.

01:32:26:09 - 01:32:27:04
Taylor
Like the whole bag.

01:32:27:04 - 01:32:59:15
Taylor
Rope into a bag, and then just like, go off again and just go for, like, a couple hours and leave the next, like, super long pitch. So it was like a really cool, like on side, like continual movement, like way of climbing that I'd never done before. And it just felt really cool, like it was like kind of like speed climbing, like I tried to boot fast, but, more like just trying to be really efficient, and be like, really like, try not to place any gear, like any bolt authority bolts.

01:32:59:17 - 01:33:08:13
Taylor
And I ended up not placing any bolts. And. Yeah. Did the root totally clean. I mean, like 16 hours.

01:33:09:20 - 01:33:30:26
Kyle
Wow. How so? 100m. We're talking like, 333ft. How often are you leaving pro behind as actual protection versus Daisy soloing with the rope that has maybe, like a piece every 50ft. Like, what kind of protection are you leaving behind?

01:33:30:26 - 01:33:32:22
Taylor
totally.

01:33:32:25 - 01:33:34:06
Taylor
Yeah, I.

01:33:34:09 - 01:33:48:16
Taylor
Brought a triple rack all the way up to threes. I believe. Or maybe twos. Never had to do everything all the way to five after that. And then I think I brought a six, a single six, and then I brought 30 beaks.

01:33:48:19 - 01:33:51:04
Taylor
And.

01:33:51:06 - 01:33:57:02
Taylor
I brought, like a couple of angles and like, maybe like ten heads and like all the hooks that I had

01:33:57:21 - 01:33:59:23
Kyle
Holy hell.

01:33:59:23 - 01:34:04:25
Taylor
big rack, like, like setting off, like if it needs, like a 50, 60 pound rack

01:34:05:13 - 01:34:07:20
Kyle
And it's on your body.

01:34:07:20 - 01:34:16:03
Taylor
like a chest harness, like this. Fully like, you know, like a fully clipped in, like, chest harness thing and then like a big wall harness.

01:34:16:03 - 01:34:29:21
Taylor
So your regular harness, and then I also like tag gear at one point, like, there was, like the section that, like, I just, like, climbed it was like five the. And then I like, tagged up the rack after that. But like.

01:34:30:24 - 01:34:47:20
Taylor
Yeah, for the most part I just climb with the whole rack and then like, I would like back, back green cams whenever I needed to. Like, I think there are a few sections where it's like, perfect ones or some things I just would bump like two once for like 50ft or something and then like, leave a one and like start climbing after that.

01:34:47:20 - 01:35:08:18
Taylor
And, a couple times I had to build anchors a little bit shorter because I just felt uncomfortable on new terrain. Being that runout. So, you know, play a post, placing quite a bit of gear and like using a lot of beaks as protection, even on, like, nice cracks, like you could just, like, slam a beak and all this other crack off to the right and like.

01:35:08:20 - 01:35:09:11
Taylor
Like, just leave the.

01:35:09:11 - 01:35:30:09
Taylor
Cams as, like, progress pieces. But yeah, it worked out pretty well. I mean, it was really fun. I felt totally safe the whole time. And I found good anchors, almost every 300ft or so. But, like, I never on rope for any of it. Like, it was, like a rope the whole time, and, Yeah.

01:35:30:10 - 01:35:31:21
Taylor
Felt pretty. It was really fun.

01:35:32:17 - 01:35:43:24
Kyle
Yeah. That's well congrats on that. I mean a an A3 plus 1500 foot first ascent on site in 16 hours is, that's wild. That's wild.

01:35:43:24 - 01:36:00:22
Taylor
one hardy pitch. It's like, hard to almost call it a three plus. There's like just one pitch that was like a lot harder. Like, it's like all of the beaks on the rack and then like, a couple hook moves and some heads and like, ropes and like, progressively like, yeah, peaks and yeah, the cams again.

01:36:00:22 - 01:36:12:24
Taylor
But, yeah, it felt, it felt technical. So I gave it that reading. Just if you end up going that way, I think you could bypass it and go a different way. It would be easier. But it was a way cooler way to go.

01:36:13:22 - 01:36:17:13
Kyle
Is there any trace left behind of your ascent?

01:36:17:20 - 01:36:28:27
Taylor
I left one head and one rope on this one scene. And I think there might be it. There might be a bike. I had stuck somewhere, but I left.

01:36:31:08 - 01:36:33:21
Taylor
yeah, I think there's not much trace. Yeah, I think we're.

01:36:33:21 - 01:36:34:18
Taylor
Going to go back up next.

01:36:34:18 - 01:36:36:29
Taylor
Year and try to, like, reclaim a lot more of it.

01:36:37:06 - 01:36:37:26
Kyle
Oh, cool.

01:36:37:26 - 01:36:42:09
Taylor
It was really flowy. I think maybe it goes. So we're going to go back and check it

01:36:42:09 - 01:36:50:11
Kyle
our heads are usually a place that are piece that you pull out on the way up. Or what circumstances would you leave it behind.

01:36:51:01 - 01:37:12:11
Taylor
I don't like to mess with the placement too much. Like once the head is in pretty good, I just leave it there. I think you could clean them, but, like, I don't like to clean them because I, like, just do. Those placements are really tricky to keep. Nice. Like, a lot of. It's like just a little micro grains in the seam, like they need to bind to that aluminum.

01:37:12:13 - 01:37:16:16
Taylor
And like, if you rip the head out, like you might rip all those little grains out,

01:37:17:28 - 01:37:29:18
Taylor
so like, just to, like, preserve the placement, I, I mean, some people, I think clean them and I did more like mileage on trying to, like, clean them in a good way, where I don't damage anything.

01:37:29:28 - 01:37:35:05
Kyle
Got it. Cause I mean even if you were to clean it, you're not using that head for anything else. Right.

01:37:35:08 - 01:37:35:23
Taylor
Yeah, I don't.

01:37:35:26 - 01:37:43:25
Taylor
You could probably use it again, but it would be last resort. Like I dropped all my other heads or like, I'm out of heads. So I'll use this one that I have that I cleaned, you know?

01:37:43:28 - 01:37:50:21
Kyle
I'm just going to bash it into oblivion and hope that it stays. That's crazy.

01:37:50:21 - 01:37:59:11
Taylor
But, Yeah, that was a really cool experience. It actually took me longer to walk off the back side of that mountain or that cliff than it did. Actually, climate.

01:38:08:22 - 01:38:11:15
Kyle
That's how it goes sometimes.

01:38:12:09 - 01:38:15:14
Kyle
You didn't bring in a gear to wrap it, or would you have to leave a bunch of stuff behind?

01:38:15:21 - 01:38:30:08
Taylor
It was paralleling another route that had been established already that I think maybe I could have wrapped and, like, built a few anchors and, like, left some pins. But I was a little bit too intimidated to do it and tired to do it. And I kind of wanted to suss.

01:38:30:08 - 01:38:32:12
Taylor
Out the walk off because I rappelled the other route on that.

01:38:32:12 - 01:38:48:28
Taylor
Wall. Just down the fixed lines. And then I would leave. I would like, you know, pull the fixed line in and wrap the next pitch and then so on. But, yeah. So I just was a little bit too scared to do it and like, ended up just like, bushwhacking for like 16 hours. It was awful.

01:38:48:28 - 01:38:50:02
Taylor
It was really bad.

01:38:50:12 - 01:39:18:25
Kyle
Oof! Yikes! You made it. Here you are. Yeah. It was we had talked about like, the, the psychological aspect of being alone of those five routes that you put up, which one stood out as like kind of the biggest struggle of like, man, this is like, I'm alone. And this is a lot to deal with right now.

01:39:19:19 - 01:39:48:20
Taylor
Maybe climbing on the falls wall. I just got, like, kind of, I just got exposed to a lot of sun, and I ran out of water at the top of the route, and getting it was a big hike off at the top, and, I was just really tired, like, really physically exhausted. But the rest of them were pretty positive experiences with, like, just having a good time, like just using the creative part of the brain and like enjoying mapping out some new way.

01:39:48:20 - 01:39:50:03
Taylor
It's like just super fun.

01:39:50:03 - 01:39:53:25
Kyle
That's awesome. We had talked a little bit about,

01:39:53:25 - 01:40:01:04
Kyle
Like efficient. Moving on Ed. And it seems like there is a portion of Ed soloing that you've started to do.

01:40:01:22 - 01:40:29:08
Taylor
Yeah, it it's kind of a weird type of climbing that, It's been done a little bit on El Cap. And I had previously, a year before, done the nose in the day with, like, an 80 meter rope in that I, like, chose to daisy solo a few of the pitches, just to move a little bit quicker, like the first pitch of the stove legs and then, like the fifth pitch.

01:40:29:09 - 01:40:52:14
Taylor
And, you know, I think like one other pitch a little bit higher up. And I remember it felt pretty okay. And I didn't feel too bad during that experience. Like had a really good climb and then this year went back and climbed the nose and decided to bring a really short rope and utilize this technique called back looping.

01:40:52:17 - 01:41:18:01
Taylor
Which I think it's used. It doesn't get talked about a whole lot. It's kind of like a really dark art that like, there's no it's not a very safe technique, but it's better than nothing where you have you're tied into one end of the rope and you leave a carabiner on a bolt, and then you run the rope through the bolt or through the carabiner, and then you tie it to the other end of the rope, and you climb to the middle point where you can't climb anymore.

01:41:18:02 - 01:41:49:19
Taylor
You, like, run the slack out, and then you untie from one end and pull the rope through, and then you can keep climbing, with like, you kind of have like a marginal anchor system in that way by you're basically building an upside down repel and you tie into both ends of the rope, and then you climb up and you're attached to one bolt, or like a fixed piece of gear, like lower out that or so I use that technique with, I think, a 140ft long rope and climb the whole nose.

01:41:49:19 - 01:42:15:18
Taylor
And I think I back loop like eight times on the whole route. And just Daisy sold the rest of the route. And then I pitched out the Jardine Traverse because I'd never done it before. So like the actual moves off the bolts on the Jardine Traverse, I like pitched out the five nine face climbing part, and then I pitched out the Wind Hill traverse because I'd fallen on it that season.

01:42:15:21 - 01:42:24:24
Taylor
Like trying to just do the moves. I like small slipped and like, was like, fell in the creek, like lead rope soloing. So I pitched that part.

01:42:24:24 - 01:42:25:26
Taylor
Out,

01:42:25:28 - 01:42:43:28
Taylor
And then, like, Daisy saw the whole rest of the route without back looping, and like, using gearbox, do the great roof and then like going through the pancake flake and and it felt like a really good day out. I had a really good experience in like, there were loads of parties on the route. I think they passed 13.

01:42:43:28 - 01:42:45:07
Taylor
Parties.

01:42:45:09 - 01:43:07:09
Taylor
And like one of the parties were not adding, so I topped that out and felt really good about it. I had a really positive experience. Ran down and then like a week later, did Lurking Fear in the same style. And I cut the rope even shorter. I think it was like 100 or maybe like a little bit shorter than that.

01:43:07:11 - 01:43:31:26
Taylor
Feet long. Just enough rope to, like, pitch out a section if I felt kind of uncomfortable and enough to back loop. And I think I back looped like ten times on the route, and just tried to move a little bit faster and brought less cams. So we brought like a double rack of cams and then like a single five.

01:43:31:28 - 01:43:56:22
Taylor
And, I never pitched out anything like I just like bump cams in like a back loop. Some sections and like, did the whole reading it, like, it felt good in the moment, but I think, like going into it. I went to beat a speed record, and like was super psyched to do it. But I think afterwards I felt a little bit uncomfortable about the whole thing.

01:43:56:25 - 01:44:18:16
Taylor
I think after doing two it a week of that style, it was just like a lot, oh, my brain. And it just felt super reckless. That's like, I don't know, I like, laid my head on the pillow the night I got back to the SA site and it's like, what am I doing? Like that was I just cringed when I closed my eyes.

01:44:18:19 - 01:44:37:19
Taylor
Like, that was so dangerous. Like, I felt really solid the whole time. But I hadn't climbed the route in a year and, going back, I had forgotten a couple things on that that are a little bit different than the topo. Like there are less bolts on, like the first or second pitch, and there's like a little bit more hooking than you think.

01:44:37:19 - 01:45:07:07
Taylor
Or I think maybe you just plow through and like, free climb that part. But like, I back looped like three. All the hook moves on that pitch and then like, higher up, like, just like a lot of, like, calm bumping and, it just felt like rushed and it felt strung out a little bit, like, I didn't bring much like, I think I brought, like, a thing of Mentos and then like, a liter of water and like, just like it was just a lot of my mind, I don't know.

01:45:07:07 - 01:45:32:08
Taylor
And, like, I still think about it a lot is like, maybe not the most intelligent decision to go up there and just Daisy solo, you know, lurking fear really fast. Like, it didn't have, like, a good finish for how cool I thought it was beforehand. I think the intention was, like a little bit more about beating someone else than it was about, having a good day in the mountains.

01:45:33:17 - 01:45:52:01
Taylor
But, Yeah. And, like, the way that Brandt climbed, it was like a lot more. It was like a totally different climb. Like, he pitched out most of the route and, like, move super fast. Like he climbs so much faster than I did. But I just never went back to the belay, you know? He was like, propel the blaze and, like, jogged the whole thing with a backpack.

01:45:52:07 - 01:46:23:17
Taylor
And, so he was moving really fast, and could probably go a lot faster. So I just felt like I used some pretty hairy tactics just to, like, beat a record, and it just didn't feel right in the end. So I have, like, some soul searching to do about that. And, like, so, like, you know, an ongoing process of my, like, maturing as a climber, how I want to, like, behave when I'm climbing.

01:46:23:19 - 01:46:41:27
Taylor
It just interesting contrast between the nose and like how great that felt. And it was like just a really fun day with, like, no expectations. Like I just wanted to kind of move fast and earth move efficient and, like, I felt really solid the whole time. It felt great, like I had it. I remember that as like, nothing but positive.

01:46:41:29 - 01:46:46:25
Taylor
So I don't know, it's something for me to think about in the future. But.

01:46:47:13 - 01:47:10:02
Kyle
Yeah. With the. With the dark arts tactic. Like, what specific scenarios do you have to avoid getting yourself in. Like what are the pitfalls. Obviously your gear failing and you falling but like what else. Like what. And more nuanced situations are you like having to prepare for or having to avoid? When it comes to having to, like, trust your systems that you're building?

01:47:10:02 - 01:47:32:05
Taylor
You have to do a lot of research prior and know the route pretty well for the most part, or at least for me. That's what I need to do. And I think I need to be in a place where I can, be secure at any moment. You know, I think you just plug a cam in, like, rest into a cam versus, like, now I'm, like, totally like, free soloing right now.

01:47:32:05 - 01:47:54:03
Taylor
Like, Yeah. It's just like finding. I mean, knowing that this is a route that I can do. Like, on any given day, under almost any circumstance, like, I could get to the top of this row, because it's super committing with a short rope, like there's no chance of a bail. Really? With, like, a 100ft long rope, like 50ft repels down that whole wall.

01:47:54:03 - 01:48:12:19
Taylor
This doesn't seem super feasible. I mean, maybe it would go, like, with some down eating. But it would be like an all day, maybe longer effort to get off the wall. So just felt really committing and, Yeah. So knowing that the route goes and like that, I can do it. And, you know.

01:48:13:10 - 01:48:21:17
Kyle
Yeah. I read something about Daisy Solomon. It says without the right proper knowledge about the gear, you might have to completely unclip where you don't feel comfortable.

01:48:21:17 - 01:48:40:18
Taylor
where you, you know, have to totally come off the rope and just hold on to something. And like, there were sections where I just climbed, like, I climbed one of the pitches, like, you know, like I pulled on a cam or two, but, like, you know, I wasn't, like, attached to a daisy at all, like, just, like free soloing the pitch.

01:48:40:20 - 01:49:01:13
Taylor
And like, that felt really good. It was, like, very easy climbing, but, Yeah, like, that's like a huge part of it. Like, there are pitches that don't have any fixed gear where you can't back loop at all. And then like if you run out of, you know, carabiners or like, there's no way to, like, thread your rope through whatever it is, then you really can't rely on that technique.

01:49:01:15 - 01:49:20:25
Taylor
So you'd have to pitch it out at that point. But but yeah, like being very confident on that terrain is like, definitely a prerequisite to doing something like that. And yeah, I mean, it was like a huge season of aid climbing for me and like, big wall climbing. So I felt super confident going into it.

01:49:20:27 - 01:49:41:14
Taylor
I just like, I think I may have, like, step one step too far in my comfort zone. And it took me like a day to realize that afterwards it was like a post thing where it was like, wow. I was like, I need to like, really pay attention to this a little bit more going into it. But it was like the right time to do it.

01:49:41:14 - 01:49:52:27
Kyle
What about the experience of the other climbers that you had past? You had said that there was something, that you felt might have been, contributing to the negative emotions you had about the ascent after the fact.

01:49:52:27 - 01:49:56:10
Kyle
Was there something related to the other people on the wall?

01:49:56:10 - 01:50:15:25
Taylor
the parties that I climbed through that day, like I only climbed through four parties, which is still quite a few, the like, I had to, like, climb up onto their portal. It was like in the morning, like, really early. And they would, like, have to mantle onto their portal edge and be with them for a minute, you know, and like I the first party, they were really cool about it.

01:50:15:25 - 01:50:26:15
Taylor
I knew those people, and they were like having a great time playing music. And I kind of walk them up essentially by like jumping into their beds. It's like,

01:50:28:09 - 01:50:37:11
Taylor
the next party and like the next party after that. Like it was a much more serious, like, they got really quiet and I don't think they were having a good time.

01:50:37:11 - 01:50:57:20
Taylor
I don't think they wanted to see that. And I felt like I maybe impacted their day, if not their whole climb, by just doing that and like, bumping cams up through them and like, never clipping the anchor like, it just seemed like I was impacting other people and felt negative in that way. And like the nose, the nose is very supportive.

01:50:57:20 - 01:51:32:16
Taylor
I think people are very used to speed climbing. It's like, well, that's their doing their thing, you know, like, but, I climbed through this one party through like the roof crux. Part of that climb was like this roof you traverse in, like, it ends on like 510 or like, hooking and, Yeah, I just like it felt like they they didn't enjoy having somebody just, like, Free Solo or Daisy solo through all their gear and then, like, you know, play through them while they're on lead.

01:51:32:19 - 01:51:50:22
Taylor
And I just as, like, kind of felt bad the whole time was like. I mean, I just, like, really wish they were here. I know, just for that reason or like, I wish I wasn't here for that reason. Like, I, you know, like, I wish they could just have their climb and not have to worry about some other, you know, some random person that who could probably, they don't know, could totally just fall at any moment.

01:51:50:24 - 01:51:53:26
Taylor
I really got into my head a little bit on that climb.

01:51:53:26 - 01:52:22:26
Kyle
That makes sense. I I've, I've spoken to a couple free soloists specifically. What do you know Joshua Rata. Have you heard that name? He fell free soloing fuck four years ago on The Nutcracker. Fell, like, 200ft. Landed sitting on a ledge next to another party. It's a crazy story, but he survived. And, yeah, there was that whole reflection of, like, you know, free soloing around other people.

01:52:22:26 - 01:52:26:04
Kyle
It's like you're inherently involving them in your risk in a way.

01:52:26:15 - 01:52:33:03
Taylor
Yeah. Totally. Like, they're definitely a part of it in the moment. Like, it's like, kind of, consensual,

01:52:34:12 - 01:52:36:08
Kyle
Yeah, exactly.

01:52:36:08 - 01:52:37:18
Taylor
kind of don't like that part.

01:52:37:18 - 01:52:50:19
Kyle
Yeah. Because, like, if you fall, it's like, sure, you might splat on the ground, but then you're putting that trauma of having them seeing someone fall to their death, you know, and then it's like, that's technically your fault. It's, it's an interesting place to be in.

01:52:50:22 - 01:52:59:16
Taylor
Yeah. Yeah, it's. Yeah, totally. And it felt good in one situation. It it felt really not great in the other, so.

01:53:00:23 - 01:53:08:18
Kyle
That makes sense. Yeah. So I mean you so you you do you now currently hold the speed record of lurking fear.

01:53:09:16 - 01:53:13:24
Taylor
Yeah. Yeah, it was like, I think, like seven hours in, like 19 minutes.

01:53:14:04 - 01:53:16:15
Kyle
And what was the previous established record.

01:53:17:02 - 01:53:20:14
Taylor
I think it was like eight hours and like 40 something minutes.

01:53:20:14 - 01:53:29:16
Taylor
And like, you know, he pitched out like, all of the pitches and like, I never pitched out anything to the client much faster than I did, actually.

01:53:29:20 - 01:53:48:12
Kyle
Yeah. Just systems. Right. Systems and risk. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean you know if you're comfortable diving into this topic here, you know, you're help me if I don't classify you properly here, but you're, you're a queer climber. Is that correct?

01:53:48:21 - 01:53:50:08
Taylor
Yes. Yes, I am.

01:53:50:10 - 01:54:00:03
Kyle
And so when it comes to, you know, speed records or records in general on climbing, you know, there's definitely kind of a gender assignment that goes to them, especially now.

01:54:00:03 - 01:54:17:11
Kyle
It's like female speed descent. Male speed descent. How do you feel about kind of your record and your placement in the climbing community when it comes to kind of identifying yourself in terms of putting your foot on the ground and where you stand? When it comes to these kind of things.

01:54:17:18 - 01:54:50:05
Taylor
Yeah. It's always been, like, a little bit awkward or, like, I don't really know what to do about it. Like, I, I don't identify as male. But I have a male body, and, like, I'm still tall and strong and, like, I don't know, I, like, go back and forth about, like, all of that. I almost wish, like there was a different category altogether, where, you know, it just wouldn't be an issue.

01:54:50:07 - 01:55:12:09
Taylor
But, yeah, it's like a weird thing that I think about a lot when it comes. Stuff like that. Like how, like, what record am I going for? And, like, I just wanted to go as fast as anyone could do it, I guess. Like. And that's all that really mattered. I think I, you know, he like Eric Sloan, like, just put down, like, solo record and that's all it is.

01:55:12:09 - 01:55:35:09
Taylor
And that makes me feel really good. And it's not under, like, the men's record or whatnot. But, yeah, it's always like, been, like a little thing. I've wondered about with, like, you know, trans people in sports, it's like kind of sucks because, like, this thing exists and like, these people exist and like, it's just hard to, like, navigate.

01:55:35:12 - 01:55:58:04
Taylor
You know, I've always been athletic my whole life, and, like, I've been on hormones for a few years, but like, I, you know, like, still perform at a high level, and it just doesn't feel right to, like, dive into women's records. So I kind of just, like, stick to my own in my own lane and, like, it's like just this, like, little unique lane that works for me.

01:55:58:04 - 01:56:32:11
Taylor
And, like, records don't really mean a whole lot. You know, I thought they would, but like it, it doesn't really matter that much. At the end of the day. And it's just, you know, but it would be interesting to see if there would be like another category for queer climbers. People in that community to like, I don't know, it's more of like, it just like doesn't feel right to be categorized in a group that you don't, you know, agree with or like and not agree with, but like, don't like, identify with, you know, oh, just awkward.

01:56:32:11 - 01:56:54:14
Kyle
Yeah. No I, I understand though, it's it's not like, you know, there's I don't know, it's, there's like the controversy of, of, of, of again this is uncharted territory for me. So I don't mean to offend or anything. So, just like biological males, maybe transitioning and then competing in women's sports.

01:56:54:14 - 01:57:14:00
Kyle
There seems to be a lot of controversy in that. But it's not, you know, it's like there. To me, it makes sense to have just open up a whole new category, open up a whole new segment of like where, you know, people like yourself, queer climbers can have a, have a place where it's not confrontational, where it's not like, you know, women or men.

01:57:14:00 - 01:57:21:18
Kyle
It's like, let's just open up another space where, you know, people can feel feel comfortable. At least that that's what makes sense to me.

01:57:22:13 - 01:57:44:18
Taylor
Yeah, it's it's, like, really hard to know. Like, I guess there's a lot of factors at play with, like, just different types of bodies and different types of people and, like, different, you know, hormone regimens and like, how they identify, like, within it just it's really complicated. It's hard to it's like, honestly, there's no real right answer.

01:57:44:21 - 01:58:19:18
Taylor
And it just is what it is. And it's like part of just being trans in climbing or in sports, like it's just not going to be clear cut. And that's just part of it, I guess. And maybe one day it'll make more sense. A lot of it is tricky because there's only like 1 or 2 of these types of people within sports, you know, within the sport, you know, within track 800 meter running, there's maybe 0 or 1, you know, that they may perform at a really high level and it's just hard to navigate putting that one person into a category.

01:58:19:20 - 01:58:29:07
Taylor
But I don't know, feels right for me to like for a speed record to just like it's just a solo ascend at the speed and it's the fastest done by the people.

01:58:29:07 - 01:58:41:11
Kyle
You know, I guess wrapping up the conversation, I'm curious as to, like, you know, from your whole story, you've you got into backcountry skiing, you did the hard rock 100 on skis.

01:58:41:15 - 01:59:07:06
Kyle
You know, you're you moved to, Utah. You found climbing, you started climbing. You know, you have this wide range of experi ence as a mountain athlete. It almost seems like you're you're, still exploring and searching this kind of, like, climbing identity. In, in terms of, like, what you want to achieve as a climber. Like, what do you what do you see in the future?

01:59:07:06 - 01:59:19:09
Kyle
Like, what do you see as what's driving you? What kind of climbing inspires you? What kind of mountain pursuits inspire you? Like where where do you see yourself kind of continuing to explore this mountain athlete side of yourself?

01:59:19:29 - 01:59:45:15
Taylor
Yeah, totally. That's a great question. Yeah, I think, like, it's just, like an ongoing process of what feels right and what feels enjoyable. And I think new rooting is a really big thing for me right now. And I would like to continue to do that in years to come. And I would love to go to like, places like Patagonia and, Baffin Island and put up larger first descents there.

01:59:45:17 - 02:00:07:23
Taylor
So I plan on doing that in the years to come. And yeah, just more on Yosemite. Yeah. I just love climbing there. And then when it doesn't serve me, I'll move on to something else. That's pretty much it. Like, you know, it's just about having a good time and scratching an adventurous itch, you know, like just climbing.

02:00:07:28 - 02:00:12:05
Taylor
Climbing new routes. Really does that. So I see a

02:00:13:04 - 02:00:33:14
Kyle
Outside of climbing, you know, a lot of us grapple with, like, balancing a career path, climbing all these other passions that we might have. Do you feel a tension there at all? Do you feel attention to build some sort of, like, financial foundation or a career or, you know, progress and other areas of your life outside of climbing?

02:00:33:14 - 02:00:35:08
Kyle
Do you, do you wrestle with that tension?

02:00:35:08 - 02:00:57:18
Taylor
I guess I do, there has to be a way to fun doing these things. So you have to continually work and, like, do seasonal work really helps with that. I get, like, a shoulder season or, like, working on the SA side is nice because, like, I can get it off to like and get like 15 days off a month to like go and climb and I could schedule that where I get a whole month off if I put my months together.

02:00:57:21 - 02:01:22:04
Taylor
So I could go elsewhere and climb, and then like, maybe next year I'll go to Patagonia than, like kind of saving up for that, and then I'll probably climb, you know, or, apply for grants as well. To be able to do that. And yeah, just living cheaply and simply and, Yep. Just working regular jobs and yeah,

02:01:22:22 - 02:01:31:13
Kyle
Yeah. Ultimately, they're the biggest passion. And everything that you're focused on is, is the the adventurous climbing aspect of your life.

02:01:31:17 - 02:01:44:00
Taylor
Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, having a career isn't as big of a thing for me right now. It's more about just like climbing and, you know, climbing as much as possible.

02:01:44:00 - 02:02:10:16
Kyle
I guess I'll close this off with a question I ask most of my guests. I have this, idea of, like, this pyramid of climbing, where, like, they're they're basically three, three things that we get out of climbing. Three things that like build the foundation of, like what climbing is for us. And so far my workshop has become, performance, adventure and partnerships.

02:02:10:18 - 02:02:15:08
Kyle
Of those three, which, like, how would you rank them in order of importance?

02:02:16:24 - 02:02:42:13
Taylor
I think, you know, partnerships is surprisingly probably number one, like the people that I'm around. Maybe I do a lot of solo climbing and solo mountain adventure, but I think, like, the people that I'm around, you know, during or like when I come home, are number one, like, my environment is number one, probably. And then two is like having a really cool adventure for sure.

02:02:42:15 - 02:03:08:10
Taylor
And yeah, three is performance. Like, you know, I don't really care about climbing grades as much. Like it doesn't really matter with a climbing, like I rate things at a higher grade just for people safety. Like it's pretty much it. You know, I don't care about climbing. 514 you know, I just want to climb cool things like can cool features and go to cool places.

02:03:08:10 - 02:03:09:22
Taylor
And.

02:03:09:24 - 02:03:12:18
Taylor
But the people I'm with are probably the most important.

02:03:13:26 - 02:03:17:25
Taylor
Yeah. Like the people I may know or like the most inspiring to me. So.

02:03:17:25 - 02:03:36:25
Kyle
Yeah I'm a I'm in a similar boat. But if it's a. Yeah. It's so funny. It's almost fluid in a way. Like certain objectives the, the they change. You know, it's, it's an interesting question. I get different responses from everybody, but, Yeah. Well, it's been it's been really great chatting with you.

02:03:36:28 - 02:03:52:13
Kyle
You have such an incredible story. You've done so many cool things. And, yeah, I was really stoked to to have the other Taylor, reach out and recommend you to the show. Yes. Yeah. It's been awesome to sit down and chat with you. I appreciate your time.

02:03:52:13 - 02:03:55:17
Taylor
Yeah, likewise. It's been really great. Yeah. Great questions.