106 | Into The Mind Of A Mountain Guide w/ IFMGA Silas Rossi

Today I have the privilege to be sitting down with our previous guest Silas Rossi..Silas is an IFMGA Certified Mountain Guide and President of the AMGA organization. After Silas and I’s last conversation in April, I’ve been jotting down a list of questions and reflections in preparation for our inevitable next conversation. So simply put, this conversation is a culmination of that list. We dive into a wide variety of topics; including nuanced gear questions surrounding rappelling, anchor building, fixed point belays, and clipping cams in sequence. We also explore more thoughtful questions like what it means to move away from fear and towards joy in our climbing. Or how we can balance learning through our own experience vs learning from the experie nce of others. We also get to hear about a guided trip early in Silas’ career involving an epic with an older client in freezing whiteout conditions.

As many of you already know, Silas is such a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and being able to sit down with him to pick his brain on such specific nuanced topics… was just really special.

Last thing before we jump into the conversation. Just in case you're not aware, Silas Rossi has created an online community and mentorship program where you can learn from the experts in the best way possible. With Silas’ Ascend Membership Program you get access to professional level mentorship, in depth education focusing on the why behind applying techniques, in person calls with Silas, and a wide variety of ever growing education modules around equipment, technical systems, physical training, philosophy, mindset and much much more. In a world where it can be hard to find a mentor and super expensive to hire a guide directly. Silas’s ascend membership might just be the perfect middle ground you’ve been looking for to expand your climbing. Best of all. Silas has generously offered our community 15% off his annual Ascend Membership. All you have to do is click the link in our show notes or use code TCM2025 at check out. I genuinely hope you take advantage of this rare opportunity to access the depths of Silas’s wealth of knowledge and experience in the mountains. If I were to ever want a mentor in the climbing space…Silas is the man I would trust. Just to be transparent I get ZERO kickback from sharing Silas’s membership. I just genuinely think it's a rare and valuable resource in today’s climbing community and am proud to offer my community a discount to such a valuable source of information. 

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Get 15% OFF Silas' Annual Ascend Membership HERE

"Enrollment will require a credit card to receive your 15% discount. If you choose to remain an Ascend member, you will continue to receive 15% off of your recurring annual membership until you choose to cancel it. You can easily unsubscribe anytime to avoid being charged. If you need help with this just reach to me at silas@alpine-logic.com" - Silas

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 16:04 An EPIC Early in Silas' Guiding Career
• 32:10 Learning Through Experience vs. Learning From The Experience Of Others
• 39:43 Move Away From Fear & More Towards Joy
• 50:24 Climbing Anchor Systems
• 1:10:04 Partnerships
• 1:25:50 Closing Words

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:24
Kyle
Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where I capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes from around the world.

00:00:09:26 - 00:00:14:17
Kyle
Come join me as I dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00:00:16:09 - 00:00:34:29
Kyle
This show is brought to you by Lives and Designs. You've heard me talk about this outdoor apparel company, and I'm still here sharing about it because honestly, I can't stop wearing their clothes. It's rare to find clothes that you can wear on the wall and in everyday life, and that is what lives in does best. Their mission is to create clothing that allows us to own less and live more.

00:00:35:00 - 00:00:55:25
Kyle
Combining technical features and durable construction with a modern styling to create lasting clothing that facilitates the life of an adventurer. As an added bonus, Lisen is helping the environment by creating their clothing out of recycled ocean waste, which I think is pretty cool. And there's a 30 day money back guarantee so you can buy it. Try it and if you still don't like it, they will give you your money back.

00:00:55:26 - 00:01:13:12
Kyle
Right now you can get 15% off it lives in by going to the link in the description below and using code TKM 15 at checkout. That's the link in the description below, and code TCM 15 for 15% off at checkout. And remember, every dollar spent that lives in is a dollar. Supporting this podcast.

00:01:14:12 - 00:01:36:17
Kyle
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Just a quick reminder that for those of you who would rather listen to the show ad free, you can simply get access on our Patreon. Once you sign up, you can add the exclusive RSS feed directly to your preferred listening app and enjoy all of our episodes here at TCM ad free. Also, as a Patreon subscriber, you will gain access to exclusive conversations and unlock the ability to ask upcoming guests your own questions.

00:01:36:19 - 00:02:01:28
Kyle
So if you're tired of hearing ads, join the growing group of Patreon subscribers today! You can find the link in our show notes or head to Patreon.com slash. The climbing majority podcast. That's Patreon.com slash the Climbing Majority podcast. Secondly, I'm not sure if you know, but you should know that this podcast is also on YouTube. I spend an enormous amount of time and money to capture super high quality video recordings of my conversations.

00:02:02:00 - 00:02:17:04
Kyle
So please take a second. Head over to YouTube and check it out for yourself. Be sure to hit the subscribe button to show your support if video podcasts aren't your thing. I totally understand. But there are still ways you can help support the show for free. Please head over to Spotify or Apple Podcasts to leave this show. Five stars.

00:02:17:09 - 00:02:44:14
Kyle
Plus, if you're an Apple podcast listener, you have the unique ability to leave the show a written review. These gestures significantly help the show reach more listeners. All right, enough housekeeping. Today I have the privilege of sitting down with our previous guest, Silas Rossi. Silas is an MGA certified mountain guide and the president of the AMG organization. After Silas and I's last conversation back in April, I've been jotting down a list of questions and reflections in preparation for our inevitable next conversation.

00:02:44:19 - 00:03:08:28
Kyle
So simply put, this conversation is a culmination of that list. We dive into a wide variety of topics, including nuanced gear, questions surrounding rappelling, anchor building, fixed point ballets, and clipping cams in sequence. We also explore more thoughtful questions like what it means to move away from fear and towards joy in our climbing, or how we balance learning through our own experience versus learning from the experience of others.

00:03:09:00 - 00:03:36:10
Kyle
We also get to hear about a guided trip early in Silas's career, involving an epic with an older client in a freezing whiteout conditions. As many of you already know, Silas has a wealth of knowledge and wisdom, and being able to sit down with him to pick his brain on such nuanced topics was just really special. Last thing before we jump into the conversation, just in case you're not aware, Silas Rossi has created an online community and mentorship program where you can learn from the experts in the best possible way.

00:03:36:13 - 00:04:06:24
Kyle
With Silas's Ascend membership program, you get access to professional level mentorship, in-depth education, focusing on the why behind applying techniques in person calls with Silas, and a wide variety of ever growing education modules around equipment, technical systems, physical training, philosophy, mindset, and much, much more. In a world where it can be hard to find a mentor and rather expensive to hire a guide directly, Silas's Ascend membership might just be the perfect thing you've been looking for to expand your climbing.

00:04:06:26 - 00:04:29:20
Kyle
Best of all, Silas has generously offered our community an exclusive 15% off his annual ascend membership. All you have to do is click the link in our show notes or use code TKM 2025 at checkout. I genuinely hope you take advantage of this rare opportunity to access Silas, his depth of knowledge and experience in the mountains. If I were to ever want a mentor in the climbing space, Silas is the man I would trust.

00:04:29:22 - 00:04:42:19
Kyle
Just to be transparent with you guys. I get zero kickback from sharing Silas membership. I just genuinely think it's a rare and valuable resource in today's climbing community, and I'm proud to offer you a discount to such a valuable source of information.

00:04:42:19 - 00:04:54:03
Kyle
So without further ado, here is my conversation with Silas Rossi.

00:04:59:18 - 00:05:18:25
Kyle
you know, it's funny, I've been anticipating this conversation since we even before we spoke about it, to be honest. And I just have this running list of questions and thoughts, that I, you know, we'll just pull out my phone and just jot them down when I, when I think about it. In preparation for speaking with you again.

00:05:18:25 - 00:05:24:00
Kyle
So, Yeah, I mean, I'm honestly excited to to jump through these and talk about some of these topics.

00:05:24:00 - 00:05:28:22
Kyle
I'm not sure if you had anything specific you wanted to bring, to the conversation today

00:05:29:13 - 00:05:32:16
Silas
I don't think so. No, I'm just curious to. To. Yeah.

00:05:32:16 - 00:05:41:12
Silas
Have a good chat and, explore some things. Have some fun. Yeah. I've been trying to have, you know, work related stuff. Be more fun recently and not just.

00:05:41:12 - 00:05:46:08
Silas
Feel like I've got to do this thing because it's a deadline and it's a time to do it and let's get it done.

00:05:46:19 - 00:05:48:19
Kyle
Yeah, it's easy because that never ends.

00:05:50:08 - 00:05:51:02
Kyle
it end? I'm like, it

00:05:52:27 - 00:05:55:04
Kyle
you just got to be able to create the space

00:05:56:11 - 00:06:02:20
Kyle
enough to the point where it's enjoyable and you're not always thinking about when it's going to end or what's what am I working towards?

00:06:02:20 - 00:06:04:13
Kyle
It's like you're living it, man. This is it.

00:06:04:23 - 00:06:14:14
Silas
It's totally true. I feel like I keep learning that fact, like I remember in college very vividly having this moment. I'm like, oh, that To-Do list will never be completely checked off.

00:06:14:16 - 00:06:16:08
Silas
Got it. Cool.

00:06:16:11 - 00:06:25:18
Silas
Just keep.

00:06:25:21 - 00:06:35:05
Silas
Right.

00:06:35:07 - 00:06:38:25
Silas
Or just keep adding more slots for climbing, right? Just like.

00:06:38:28 - 00:06:39:03
Silas
The.

00:06:39:03 - 00:06:54:27
Silas
Ratio can change.

00:06:54:29 - 00:07:03:27
Silas
Totally, totally.

00:07:04:00 - 00:07:09:26
Silas
So if I click drop the responsibilities. That's hilarious.

00:07:32:05 - 00:07:32:26
Silas
I understand sign.

00:07:33:01 - 00:07:35:27
Silas
Building. Well, I mean, to me, we've.

00:07:35:27 - 00:07:54:24
Silas
Talked a little bit about this all, but to me, it's like it's all preventative, right? Whatever you can do to set yourself up well for success and not have the things go sideways. It's a great start, obviously. And then using techniques that give you some I mean, I feel like my whole philosophy with climbing is like using some techniques and planning.

00:07:54:26 - 00:07:56:00
Silas
So that.

00:07:56:02 - 00:08:05:11
Silas
When the inevitable does go bad, when things go sideways or wrong, or you get, you get surprised that you have some leeway there. You're not like, totally put yourself in.

00:08:05:11 - 00:08:07:15
Silas
A corner, right? You haven't, like, totally.

00:08:07:15 - 00:08:28:04
Silas
Pigeonholed yourself into this scenario. So I mean, for me, like if I think about this scenario just offered, I would back up and say, well, if I'm in an area where I'm unsure about the repels, I'm probably not going to similar repel. If I think the route finding this tricky because you're in this counterbalance scenario, that just makes it a little.

00:08:28:04 - 00:08:28:25
Silas
Harder.

00:08:28:28 - 00:08:31:25
Silas
To actually have many options.

00:08:33:07 - 00:08:50:02
Silas
But I guess if you're in a similar repel scenario and you have missed the anchors, I mean, you're in a counterbalance. So if one person can keep hanging on the rope, another person can like climb in and wait, like they can go up actually up really quickly and easily.

00:08:50:04 - 00:08:50:19
Silas
Maybe not.

00:08:50:19 - 00:08:56:14
Silas
Across very far, but at least up. And then get to that anchor and fix the rope, or just stand there.

00:08:56:14 - 00:08:57:12
Silas
And other.

00:08:57:12 - 00:08:59:01
Silas
Person can ascend or climb.

00:08:59:01 - 00:09:01:23
Silas
Or whatever. So.

00:09:01:23 - 00:09:17:28
Kyle
using. Because that's the one thing you're always scared of, right? Is, like, it's why people use tethers is to prevent that situation of separation from happening in the first place. But, yeah, if you have somebody that both of you are below, it's like, all right, you know, either try to climb up or we're going to somehow try to weight this one side of the system so the other person

00:09:19:05 - 00:09:34:22
Silas
Yeah. I mean, it's a 1 to 1 system, right. So you can do this top rope just on the ground in the first pitch or something, like someone climbs and then as they're coming down. So you're playing with Gregory, you just start climbing with a stop or not or whatever behind your Gregory. And you just, like, start climbing.

00:09:34:22 - 00:09:57:27
Silas
And I do this with clients sometimes as a way to like on their last lap, I can get back to the anchor and then eventually transition the anchor and clean it and come down without having to have them belay me and saving the time right of them coming down, me tying in them, belaying me, me climbing. So it's like literally like as they come down, I go up, I get to the top.

00:09:57:29 - 00:10:07:15
Silas
I mean, I have to be careful because obviously it's an a counterbalance scenario. So if they get to the ground and then they untie before I connect to myself like I'm totally hosed, right? I'm totally exposed.

00:10:07:15 - 00:10:08:29
Silas
Here.

00:10:09:01 - 00:10:11:01
Silas
But I think like, that's that's one skill.

00:10:11:01 - 00:10:11:23
Silas
Just the.

00:10:11:26 - 00:10:20:22
Silas
That counterbalance idea is a really good tool for both situations like this, but also just rescue scenarios in general and understanding.

00:10:20:25 - 00:10:22:25
Silas
How it all works. I mean, really helpful.

00:10:23:02 - 00:10:44:18
Kyle
Knots at the end of the rope. So I, you know, the the common trope is tire knots, tire knots, tire knots, and I think that obviously that's a very good shotgun approach, kind of beta for, for anybody repelling. I would say that that saves lives. But at the same time, I in my experience climbing, I have definitely found situations where knot tying knots make sense.

00:10:44:20 - 00:10:53:12
Kyle
Do you agree with that? Like because. Yeah. Like, do you agree with that statement? Are there situations we're not tying not to make sense?

00:10:54:11 - 00:10:57:10
Silas
Well, I'm I'm.

00:10:57:10 - 00:11:06:07
Silas
I'm sorry. I have to keep zooming out and, like, and give you my overall thought process. To have it make any sense. I think if I. If I get to.

00:11:06:10 - 00:11:12:09
Silas
We will just says to say so. But to me, it's like, okay, I want I want my.

00:11:12:09 - 00:11:13:18
Silas
Default habit to be.

00:11:13:18 - 00:11:15:02
Silas
Really.

00:11:15:04 - 00:11:22:24
Silas
Conservative and have give me the most number of options possible. Right? So it's like I get in the car, I put my seatbelt on right away. That's my.

00:11:22:24 - 00:11:23:26
Silas
Habit. Now, if.

00:11:23:26 - 00:11:35:06
Silas
I'm going to drive it in the driveway and get a package or drop off the garbage or whatever, right. And I don't put my seatbelt on, that's a choice. So I feel like the default habit, a really good place to start for all of.

00:11:35:06 - 00:11:36:15
Silas
Us, that's.

00:11:36:15 - 00:11:39:22
Silas
That becomes muscle memory and kind of automatic is to tie the knots.

00:11:39:24 - 00:11:41:05
Silas
Right. And then.

00:11:41:08 - 00:11:45:28
Silas
Yeah, and other times when you make a choice not to put knots in the end.

00:11:46:00 - 00:11:46:14
Silas
I.

00:11:46:14 - 00:11:52:02
Silas
Mean certainly there could be, there could be lots of reasons. But I think you have to do it in a way.

00:11:52:02 - 00:11:58:18
Silas
That's, that's, what's the right term? I don't know.

00:11:58:18 - 00:12:19:22
Silas
Just be careful with it. If you're like, if you're doing it to save time and go fast, that's probably not a great reason. If it's because there are lots of chicken heads on this particular route or, you know, there's some, like, ledges down below you or something. I can't actually think of a really great solution other than getting caught in a crack or something below you.

00:12:19:25 - 00:12:20:15
Silas
Then yeah, I.

00:12:20:15 - 00:12:33:15
Silas
Might not tie knots in the end, or I might tie not. So the I mean, just keep the ends with me so that I can still repel down with them and and manage them, more carefully. But have the knots still there.

00:12:33:17 - 00:12:34:00
Silas
Are there.

00:12:34:00 - 00:12:36:04
Silas
Other instances you can think of that you would.

00:12:36:09 - 00:12:38:11
Silas
Prefer not to have knots in?

00:12:38:11 - 00:12:45:24
Kyle
I think one of the big ones is where you pull the rope through, and then it just flies perfectly down past you and you've got one not that you tied.

00:12:45:26 - 00:13:06:05
Kyle
And then the other one is like 200ft down and you're like, do I really want to pull this all the way up and tie it again? Or do I wrap down, get, you know. And then if I see the fact that I'm like, you know, 30ft too close to the end and I'm like, it's kind of a stretcher, I stop, pull the rope up, tie the knot, throw it down again, and then get to the anchor and kind of make that judgment call as I get closer and

00:13:06:24 - 00:13:07:09
Silas
Yeah.

00:13:07:12 - 00:13:31:13
Silas
Do you know. Do you know the hybrid method? Both. So good. Maybe you've already heard of it or seen it, but. So in that scenario you just described, right? You. You pull the end through, you tie one knot and the new anchor, you pull the rope, the other end falls down past you. It's only 100ft because we're doing single rope propellers, of course.

00:13:31:15 - 00:13:31:22
Silas
So.

00:13:31:22 - 00:13:50:29
Silas
Now you've got two ends hanging down the middle at the top. Always go to the middle if you always have middle marks. So you have maximum distance to be able to go. You don't get surprised. Knots and one end knot is not on the other end. You repel down. Of course, if you're just the only one repelling on this, on these two ropes and one ten feet through, you're dead right?

00:13:51:01 - 00:13:54:07
Silas
But if you pre rig multiple.

00:13:54:07 - 00:14:10:29
Silas
People on repel, in other words, put their device on as well, it helps to have an extension not be off your belay loop which most of us are doing now. Right. Just pre rig the whole team or at least one person. So that they're on the ropes as well. They don't have their hands free back up on yet.

00:14:11:01 - 00:14:17:13
Silas
They repel. Sorry. They stay there while you repel and base. What that does is isolate the two strands.

00:14:17:16 - 00:14:17:25
Silas
Right.

00:14:17:26 - 00:14:26:01
Silas
It could be there can be some movement. But it's not going to be like meters of movement that if you were to go off end of one rope, you wouldn't.

00:14:26:01 - 00:14:35:24
Silas
Stop on the other strand. Right?

00:14:35:27 - 00:14:37:15
Silas
Exactly. And.

00:14:37:17 - 00:15:00:28
Silas
And and it might take like putting their hands on the brake strand together, or it might take having the third hand on it. A really isolate those strands. But that's a really good technique. And so I really encourage everyone recreational climbing to just start pre rigging because it gives you that advantage. And so if you play out that whole scenario like longer term, you come down into the stance a new stance right?

00:15:00:28 - 00:15:12:17
Silas
You clip into an anchor, you thread your end, you tie one knot. Other person comes down, you're both clip to the anchor. You pull the rope, get to the new middle. The other end falls past you.

00:15:12:19 - 00:15:14:07
Silas
You leave that alone.

00:15:14:10 - 00:15:39:06
Silas
And you go on repel, right? You repel down. Pre rigged people set up. You both repel down again. You've been you've been secured by the person's pre rig. Now you do it again and you have an option like basically every time you're putting through one strand that has a knot. So you pull up the knotted strand put it through re tie the knot and the end falls down past you.

00:15:39:08 - 00:15:48:14
Silas
So you can even do this with, two ropes tied together and you'll just be flip flopping. Which rope is being pulled down with the knot in it. Right.

00:15:49:19 - 00:15:55:26
Silas
It works super well and it's super fast, so you're only ever tying one knot that you're putting through right away, and you're letting that.

00:15:55:26 - 00:15:59:29
Silas
Road forecast you. You. So just just pre rig.

00:15:59:29 - 00:16:00:16
Silas
And then all your.

00:16:00:21 - 00:16:03:06
Silas
Problems are solved.

00:16:03:06 - 00:16:04:19
Kyle
know.

00:16:04:19 - 00:16:11:17
Kyle
let's do a story. I don't think we actually talked about this before. I want to know your closest call in the mountains.

00:16:12:23 - 00:16:17:00
Silas
My closest call in the mountains.

00:16:17:19 - 00:16:25:01
Silas
There are so many now. I'm just kidding. Probably the. I describe it as a as the longest.

00:16:25:01 - 00:16:31:26
Silas
I was scared in my life. Like, the longest I was the most scared in my life. Was on a little tiny mountain in Maine,

00:16:32:09 - 00:16:32:27
Silas
This is a very.

00:16:32:27 - 00:16:42:12
Silas
Very long time ago. I was kind of in the beginning, early, early years of my guiding career. And I was with a mentor, and we were going into Katahdin in the winter.

00:16:42:14 - 00:16:45:14
Silas
And it was a little bit funny.

00:16:45:14 - 00:16:49:29
Silas
Because this is the second year we tried to do this particular ice route called the Silly.

00:16:49:29 - 00:16:52:24
Silas
Barber. With this older.

00:16:52:24 - 00:16:53:14
Silas
Gentleman who.

00:16:53:14 - 00:16:54:21
Silas
Had climbed.

00:16:54:21 - 00:17:02:18
Silas
All over the world with other lots of other guides, had done a fair bit of high altitude mountaineering, had done a favorite ice climbing, and he was really.

00:17:02:25 - 00:17:03:03
Silas
I don't.

00:17:03:03 - 00:17:07:27
Silas
Remember exactly, although it was, at least in the 70s, and he hadn't ever climbed the snowy Barbara in the winter.

00:17:08:01 - 00:17:13:03
Silas
So he had he had booked us, for a week previous winter.

00:17:13:03 - 00:17:25:25
Silas
The weather was awful. We didn't get anything done. So we're going back this following year. And, That's awesome. My mentor literally just texted me, but I'm telling the story below.

00:17:25:27 - 00:17:27:25
Silas
Yours must be burning.

00:17:27:28 - 00:17:29:13
Silas
So we're there.

00:17:29:13 - 00:17:31:21
Silas
For the second year in a row, and this older.

00:17:31:21 - 00:17:34:01
Silas
Fella, I'll call him Bob.

00:17:34:03 - 00:17:37:00
Silas
Is there, and he's hired us, but he's brought two friends, and his two.

00:17:37:00 - 00:17:38:25
Silas
Friends are.

00:17:38:28 - 00:17:39:19
Silas
Climbing on their.

00:17:39:19 - 00:17:40:10
Silas
Own.

00:17:40:13 - 00:17:52:00
Silas
They're in our group. Like we're camping together. We're cooking for them, but they're on their own program. They're ice climbing together on the ice cliffs, which are more cracking style. And anyway, the weather is like, still not great.

00:17:52:04 - 00:17:53:12
Silas
But we're really.

00:17:53:14 - 00:18:12:02
Silas
We're feeling the push to like, go make this happen. And this is like in retrospect now, you know, 25 years later, I can see all these human factors that are playing into making these decisions. Right? So we're already like feeling up against the gun. I feel like we've got to make it happen. The logistics are kind of wonky with a couple people being there on their own.

00:18:12:02 - 00:18:17:26
Silas
We're guiding this one guy, but it's two of us guiding this one guy because he's, you know, on the other part.

00:18:17:26 - 00:18:22:05
Silas
Of his life and isn't moving quite as fast and all these things. So it's.

00:18:22:07 - 00:18:23:10
Silas
It's already like.

00:18:23:10 - 00:18:26:08
Silas
Painting a picture of like, oh, this is kind of out of the ordinary.

00:18:26:08 - 00:18:31:13
Silas
Right. And so we wake up in the morning and the bunk house, of.

00:18:31:13 - 00:18:39:11
Silas
Course, was full with the wood stove. So we were in lean tos, which is fine, but it's like 30 below or something. 20 below, pretty cold, pretty windy.

00:18:39:11 - 00:18:41:19
Silas
And we just go up there.

00:18:41:19 - 00:18:43:09
Silas
We approach to the base and.

00:18:43:09 - 00:18:44:10
Silas
It's like, oh yeah.

00:18:44:10 - 00:18:47:02
Silas
Like this is still happening. Like we're still going to do this, you know?

00:18:47:09 - 00:18:55:28
Silas
And I was kind of like really like we're still going to do this. This is it's pretty cold. People actually put their own crampons on. It's like spin drifting and windy and

00:18:56:00 - 00:18:58:12
Silas
And we just start climbing. And the plan.

00:18:58:12 - 00:18:59:26
Silas
Apparently was that.

00:18:59:26 - 00:19:21:02
Silas
We would climb ahead a team of three. Right. I would lead all the pitches and, my colleague would basically like, be with this, client, helping them go faster. Right? Like clean anchors, clean the gear, help them out when they needed to so we could, like, kind of move pretty consistently. The other team or two guys are behind us just following us up the route.

00:19:21:04 - 00:19:38:17
Silas
Which is a little weird anyway. But anyway, this is kind of painting a picture already, right? We're going up the route. It's getting, it's going slower and slower. And so the weather is kind of like slightly shutting down. And by the time it's actually obvious that the weather's actually turning for the worse.

00:19:38:20 - 00:19:40:26
Silas
We are, we are way up high.

00:19:40:28 - 00:20:02:24
Silas
Like it's easier to probably top out now. It's like a almost 20,500ft long route. Like alpine ice route, a lot of snowfields. So it's it's easier at this point, up near the crux of the route to just top out and come down like it would be a pretty big deal to propel this whole route. Partly because it's so long, but also partly because it's just not like a pure ice route.

00:20:02:24 - 00:20:20:14
Silas
It's like a lots of snow gullies and little krumholtz, which are like the little trees and stuff. And you, we've kind of like worked ourselves in a situation where it's just not going as fast as we wanted to go. It's colder than we want. People are getting tired. It's a longer day and and so I leave the crux pitch.

00:20:20:16 - 00:20:24:05
Silas
At this point, the two guys behind us are struggling because it's so cold and windy.

00:20:24:08 - 00:20:28:13
Silas
That that it basically.

00:20:28:16 - 00:20:31:27
Silas
They have now joined our rope in like one long caterpillar.

00:20:31:29 - 00:20:32:25
Silas
Right.

00:20:32:28 - 00:20:40:02
Silas
And we're close to the knife edge ridge, which is an a mile long ridge to the summit. And they have to come down.

00:20:40:05 - 00:20:42:02
Silas
And at this.

00:20:42:02 - 00:20:58:29
Silas
Point, like, we just had to get out of here. Right? It's, it's clear that things are turning for the worse. And we should just try to get down. So long story short, I bring the client and my, my colleague up, and they're moving slowly enough that I kind of, like, just give them.

00:20:59:02 - 00:20:59:06
Silas
You.

00:20:59:06 - 00:21:00:08
Silas
Know, I say like, why.

00:21:00:08 - 00:21:02:08
Silas
Don't you just keep going?

00:21:02:11 - 00:21:07:24
Silas
I've got these other two guys now that I wasn't guiding, but now I kind of them.

00:21:08:18 - 00:21:11:26
Silas
You guys keep going to the summit, we'll catch up with you.

00:21:11:29 - 00:21:12:28
Silas
And we'll we'll.

00:21:13:00 - 00:21:18:09
Silas
Meet you with some that are on the way down. Right. They start going.

00:21:18:11 - 00:21:19:28
Silas
And.

00:21:20:00 - 00:21:23:06
Silas
Basically things like slow to a halt. These guys come up.

00:21:23:08 - 00:21:25:05
Silas
And we're all.

00:21:25:05 - 00:21:29:09
Silas
Working really hard. It's windy, but we're kind of in a shelter zone. I'm like, you know, put on.

00:21:29:09 - 00:21:32:14
Silas
All your clothes, all your warmest jackets.

00:21:32:14 - 00:21:46:05
Silas
Coffees, mittens and grab a snack. And we're going to keep going. We end up getting to the summit like at dark. And it's not only dark, but it's in the middle of a frickin blizzard, like it is snowing and blowing.

00:21:46:07 - 00:21:46:22
Silas
And you are.

00:21:46:29 - 00:21:47:25
Silas
In the ping pong.

00:21:47:25 - 00:21:48:13
Silas
Ball.

00:21:48:16 - 00:22:06:13
Silas
Like, quite literally. Like just like in this little, like, glowing little orb. Right. And this is, and this is like, at least 20 years ago, I don't know exactly what year. So it's like like GPS is, are like, just starting to become more popularized in the mountains before smartphones.

00:22:07:17 - 00:22:30:10
Silas
And so we get to the summit, we're working down kind of following these cairns and you can't see literally 5 or 10ft. And we're kind of working down like the winds right in our face. And it's just going really slowly. Like we're just like creeping down the mountain. And we get to a point where.

00:22:30:12 - 00:22:32:20
Silas
We're we basically get.

00:22:32:20 - 00:22:55:06
Silas
To the end of the Cairns. I do these circles to like, find the next cairn. It's clear that, like, it's just further than I want to go. I look back and I can't see these guys 50ft away. Even so, if we separate, like, we're just going to never see each other again, like literally that bad. And so we have this decision to make, which is either we keep descending toward where I know we're going to go.

00:22:55:08 - 00:23:03:02
Silas
My compass is bouncing like this because there's a big iron ore deposit up there. It's literally like the compass is literally bouncing.

00:23:03:04 - 00:23:08:27
Silas
Which was the first time I've ever seen that happen. So and this is like.

00:23:08:27 - 00:23:26:28
Silas
Hours into the descent, which is, you know, a very, very long day at this point. And I've heard all these stories about this sort of navigation problem happening up on this mountain and people going the wrong way off a saddle because they think they're going toward the right way. But of course, you can't see, you don't have to.

00:23:27:01 - 00:23:37:13
Silas
And they just get sucked into this other ravine. And, you know, found of whatever several days later. So I'm like, oh my God. Like, I can't do that. Right? And so.

00:23:37:16 - 00:23:38:04
Silas
Just all.

00:23:38:04 - 00:23:42:15
Silas
These little things that are kind of feeding into this scenario where, where it was just breeding.

00:23:44:23 - 00:24:11:16
Silas
I don't know, like doubt and insecurity, like around like where I knew we were where we were going. These guys are smoked. They're they're almost can hardly even walk. And so we get to this point where I'm like, well, we're trying to like hit the shoulder and like just, kind of hand rail down to the trail. But on the shoulder it's all this wind affected Krumholtz, and you're just like, I literally falling into your elbows and bottomless snow, like, in these little tiny trees.

00:24:11:19 - 00:24:32:04
Silas
So that's that's not an option. So we have to we have to find one of the two trails or that's like all it's going to happen. And so we get to this point where I'm like, well, I know for sure we passed the intersection to the Cathedral Trail not too long ago. We can go back uphill and then down this slightly more technical.

00:24:33:01 - 00:24:48:16
Silas
Terrain, and I'll know where we are, or we can keep going down for another. Whatever. We're moving really slow. Maybe an hour or so. And if we're on the right track, still hit the saddle trail, which is oftentimes more avalanche prone in storms.

00:24:48:19 - 00:24:49:06
Silas
But if we.

00:24:49:06 - 00:24:57:10
Silas
Get down there and we are slightly off or I'm not sure where we are, we have to come back uphill. These guys just aren't able to do that.

00:24:57:12 - 00:24:59:14
Silas
So long story.

00:24:59:14 - 00:25:06:10
Silas
Short, this is the moment where I'm like, wow, this is really scary. I've been like really pretty worried about this for hours now.

00:25:06:10 - 00:25:07:28
Silas
It's pretty terrifying.

00:25:08:00 - 00:25:10:09
Silas
And it was the first time ever that I was like.

00:25:10:11 - 00:25:11:05
Silas
Oh, this.

00:25:11:05 - 00:25:18:07
Silas
Is when people just lie down on the snow, rest and never get up like that.

00:25:18:10 - 00:25:18:28
Silas
Like that's how.

00:25:18:28 - 00:25:20:09
Silas
Serious it was. I was like.

00:25:20:12 - 00:25:22:14
Silas
Oh, I'm like, oh, that's that thought.

00:25:22:14 - 00:25:45:24
Silas
Crossed my mind, let's get out of here. And so we went. We went just kind of contour back uphill a little bit like on the short rope now because we're kind of approaching the edge of this big plateau. And one guy's glasses are all fogged up. We have to put them away. And we're literally like stumbling, like on a short rope kind of style, poking in the dark, trying to find these cairns on our way down.

00:25:45:27 - 00:25:52:25
Silas
And we got back down to camp at, like, I don't know, 11 p.m. or something after starting at, like, you know, five in the morning or something.

00:25:54:00 - 00:26:10:00
Silas
And just, just like in the winter in New England on a big peak in the snow. And then, you know, they basically got back to the the camp passed out, like, their feet are, like, out of their sleeping bags. It's still like 20 below, right? Like tucking their feet back in or getting them.

00:26:10:02 - 00:26:12:23
Silas
In and, the, the.

00:26:12:23 - 00:26:16:07
Silas
Thing the only like, maybe funny part of the story.

00:26:16:09 - 00:26:18:27
Silas
Was that when we had gotten.

00:26:18:27 - 00:26:37:03
Silas
To the knife edge initially after climbing, we had we had gotten knife edge and this one fellow was just moving so slowly, and it was so windy that the wind literally picked him up and, like, moved him ten feet, deposited him right, at the beginning of our descent. And so he wasn't doing so well. So my give me your backpack.

00:26:37:03 - 00:26:55:21
Silas
I'll carry both backpacks. And so I was carrying both backpacks for a while, got to the summit, descended for a while back down kind of to the scenario I just described. And I was starting to find this Krumholtz. I'm like, I just can't carry two packs anymore. I've got two ropes, two backpacks. So I'm like, here's your backpack back.

00:26:55:24 - 00:26:56:22
Silas
And so.

00:26:56:24 - 00:26:57:19
Silas
We're.

00:26:57:21 - 00:27:05:09
Silas
You know, a route finding, trying to do all this stuff. And again, I can't see ten feet right. So we get down to like Cathedral Trail goes down like I mentioned.

00:27:05:12 - 00:27:28:17
Silas
And I looked back and the staff whose name I won't say doesn't have a backpack on. And I'm like, where is your backpack? I was like, I couldn't take it. I left it. You are like, Holy shit, if we get out of here, I'm going to kill you. Because I had taken my.

00:27:28:17 - 00:27:41:21
Silas
Big giant puffy off and put it in his backpack. I took my big mitts off and put it in his backpack because it was the easiest one to get to. When we were kind of struggling up there. And so now we're up there still.

00:27:41:23 - 00:28:01:22
Silas
Bad scenario and there's no backpack with my puffy, his puffy, the big mitts. I'm like, good lord. So but it gets better because the next morning everyone wakes up super groggy and this thought was like, hey, Silas. I'm like, yeah, oh, like like 16.

00:28:01:22 - 00:28:05:03
Silas
Miles in the wilderness, right? Like way off the road.

00:28:05:05 - 00:28:27:23
Silas
He's like, remember how when we left the car, you had asked me to leave my keys? The car was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. He's like, I didn't do that. And they're in my backpack on top of guitar. Oh like wow. Oh my gosh. So you know it's it all kind of.

00:28:27:23 - 00:28:30:25
Silas
Like mostly ended up okay.

00:28:30:27 - 00:28:31:19
Silas
You know the.

00:28:31:19 - 00:28:36:18
Silas
The older fellow had a little bit of frostbite and one on one finger or two fingers because he put his big mittens.

00:28:36:18 - 00:28:38:18
Silas
On,

00:28:38:21 - 00:28:39:27
Silas
Despite us asking.

00:28:39:27 - 00:28:42:01
Silas
All day about it.

00:28:42:03 - 00:28:45:26
Silas
So we went out the next day and it was, it was mostly kind of fine, but.

00:28:45:28 - 00:28:46:05
Silas
It.

00:28:46:05 - 00:29:00:01
Silas
Was probably the scariest thing I've experienced for that length of time. Like I've had close calls in like, wow, that was shocking. But there was like like in it, like really terrified for like hours on end, which wasn't very fun.

00:29:00:01 - 00:29:04:16
Silas
So.

00:29:04:18 - 00:29:06:25
Silas
No, no, it was.

00:29:06:25 - 00:29:20:03
Silas
Just more like everyone smoked.

00:29:20:05 - 00:29:21:20
Silas
No, it was it was more like I.

00:29:21:20 - 00:29:23:06
Silas
Needed to make the right decision about.

00:29:23:06 - 00:29:24:11
Silas
Like.

00:29:24:13 - 00:29:34:25
Silas
We really came to a head where it was like, we can keep going down because I know that's where the saddle trail is. But if I. If we do that and we can't find the trail and we have to come back uphill another half an.

00:29:34:25 - 00:29:40:10
Silas
Hour or an hour, I don't know if it's going to happen. You know.

00:29:40:13 - 00:29:41:14
Silas
Yeah.

00:29:41:16 - 00:30:00:28
Silas
So it's, you know, it was two people that are really, fit, experienced, like, you know, mountain athletes that that could just walk out of there. It wouldn't have felt quite so severe. But the, you know, the physical fitness being fatigue piece is really a big deal. And, you know, no fault of these guys own at all.

00:30:00:28 - 00:30:07:02
Silas
Like it's really cold and windy and climbing all day like that. It's just it's really taxing.

00:30:07:05 - 00:30:08:05
Silas
So

00:30:08:23 - 00:30:12:02
Kyle
As a guide. What did you learn through that experience?

00:30:12:02 - 00:30:14:04
Silas
Like I said, it was very.

00:30:14:04 - 00:30:19:25
Silas
Early in my career, so I was, I, I notice a lot of these things. And I was like,

00:30:19:27 - 00:30:21:12
Silas
Well, I guess it's just how you.

00:30:21:12 - 00:30:22:27
Silas
Do it, you know, like.

00:30:22:29 - 00:30:24:11
Silas
Yeah, okay.

00:30:24:13 - 00:30:29:10
Silas
1 or 2 things are not feeling quite right. And now if there's any uncertainty, I'm like, I'm.

00:30:29:10 - 00:30:31:01
Silas
Not sure it means I.

00:30:31:01 - 00:30:34:26
Silas
Know, I'm sure in the negative. Like we're not doing that.

00:30:34:28 - 00:30:36:17
Silas
Like I just want to be totally.

00:30:36:17 - 00:30:40:03
Silas
Comfortable and and understand it well enough that I know it's going to go.

00:30:40:03 - 00:30:41:02
Silas
Well.

00:30:41:04 - 00:30:45:06
Silas
At least, you know, within a certain realm of possibility.

00:30:46:07 - 00:30:48:17
Silas
Before we get in over our heads.

00:30:49:13 - 00:30:59:26
Silas
Yeah. I mean, we all know, right? Like being in over your head in any way is not very fun. Really gets quite dangerous. So. Yeah, I would say that that was.

00:30:59:29 - 00:31:01:29
Silas
I'm not sure if that shaped my.

00:31:01:29 - 00:31:16:29
Silas
Subsequent guiding and careers, but definitely had an influence. And I don't think about it actively a lot, but I am I'm sure that my overall like philosophy and guiding and instruction take something from that experience for sure,

00:31:16:29 - 00:31:41:13
Kyle
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00:32:01:28 - 00:32:08:04
Kyle
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00:32:08:04 - 00:32:08:23
Silas
you know?

00:32:08:23 - 00:32:16:22
Kyle
on that note, this is a question I have here is, how do we balance learning through experience versus learning through the experience of others?

00:32:19:09 - 00:32:25:12
Silas
Yeah. I mean, I think most of us climbers are pretty independent, opinionated people.

00:32:25:14 - 00:32:27:10
Silas
And we kind.

00:32:27:10 - 00:32:31:02
Silas
Of have to burn our own hands. Most of the time, unfortunately.

00:32:31:04 - 00:32:41:01
Silas
Yeah. I'm.

00:32:41:03 - 00:33:08:02
Silas
Yeah.

00:33:08:04 - 00:33:09:03
Silas
Yeah, absolutely.

00:33:09:03 - 00:33:13:04
Silas
I think, I mean, I think you have to start by being curious, right? If you if you think you know it.

00:33:13:04 - 00:33:14:18
Silas
All or aren't.

00:33:14:18 - 00:33:17:29
Silas
Wondering about certain things on any given day, no matter.

00:33:18:01 - 00:33:19:10
Silas
How long you've been doing it.

00:33:19:12 - 00:33:21:22
Silas
I think that's a bit of a red flag for sure.

00:33:22:23 - 00:33:33:14
Silas
So I think, you know, taking some time as well, like between doing things, not just being like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, right in a row is also really helpful to be reflective.

00:33:34:21 - 00:33:39:04
Silas
I think having a mentor is invaluable. Throughout your, your whole career.

00:33:39:04 - 00:33:40:24
Silas
And I would say.

00:33:40:26 - 00:33:56:12
Silas
I kind of view it like, as your experience is building, you should start with a lot of mentorship and then taper it down. It should be like this sort of thing, like as like when you're very inexperienced, you should have a lot of over, not oversight.

00:33:56:15 - 00:33:57:16
Silas
Just.

00:33:57:18 - 00:34:25:05
Silas
Yeah, a mentoring instruction, kind of, other perspective until you gain the experience needed to have an opinion about stuff really. Right. Like if you just have an opinion but don't have any experience to back it. It's kind of a bizarre place to be. So I think being curious, I think reflecting, I think having mentorship and a lot of mentorship early, but really like your whole career, like you want to have mentors, right?

00:34:25:07 - 00:34:29:01
Silas
I think is I think it's all really valuable.

00:34:29:01 - 00:34:48:05
Kyle
concept about partnership, and he said we should do the 60s or 20, 60, 20 rule. So 20% of us should be acting as guides. 20% of our partners should be people. We are acting as guides for 60% of the people we climb with should be people at our level, and 20% of the people we climb with

00:34:51:15 - 00:34:54:13
Silas
Cool.

00:34:54:13 - 00:35:06:18
Kyle
do think that each of those three categories are really important. Like I just recently took out my buddy Pete. He's just getting into trad climbing. And he was really psyched on doing this five seven out here in Red Rock. And I was just like, okay, cool.

00:35:06:18 - 00:35:25:03
Kyle
Like, you know, this is definitely a climb. That's I wouldn't pick myself, but, I'm really psyched to get him out there and to lead him and or to guide him and to instruct him into his gear placements. And, it's really beneficial for for him, for sure. And really cool to see the growth and just him getting outside of his comfort zone.

00:35:25:03 - 00:35:42:09
Kyle
But it's also really great for me to practice my systems and to make sure my stuff looks good, and to make sure I can communicate my knowledge effectively, to another person. And so that portion of that kind of, partnership, I think is crucial for both parties involved, for yourself and for the person that you're, you're

00:35:44:07 - 00:35:47:18
Silas
And. Yeah, I love that I absolutely agree, I think it's really important.

00:35:47:20 - 00:35:48:17
Silas
Yeah.

00:35:48:19 - 00:36:17:17
Silas
I mean, the only thing I will say on, on that note is that I've seen lots of people take out friends and and just do something like it's a little bit too much, right? Either for the person that they're bringing out or for them being able to take care of that person. Right. Like, I mean, I do a ton of guy training, obviously, and we're we're really particular about guides that are taking people out, need to be trained for that scale and complexity of terrain.

00:36:18:10 - 00:36:36:11
Silas
Because your skills have to be just like super solid. So you can, like, almost not even think about those at all. Right? But then give this person that's in your care, high quality and safe experience as well. And so I kind of do like a pie of responsibility, right. Like you're saying with the partner's equal, like, if it's 5050.

00:36:36:14 - 00:37:09:15
Silas
Amazing, right? Like, I can take care of myself most of the time. I can depend on my partner taking care of me. Sometimes I can take care of them sometimes, but they're kind of like, self-sufficient. Whereas in a guiding scenario it might be like 6040, or it might be 99 and one. Right. That I'm like taking care of all the things and they all they can do is like, just be there sometimes, and move on the rock, but not even think about belaying me, providing me security, clipping themselves in, untying, from the anchor.

00:37:09:15 - 00:37:40:03
Silas
And, you know, like, all those pieces, it's just easy to, I think, take for granted coming from a solid partnership that this person you're with that's in your care knows these things or these things are obvious to us. Right. But they have no idea about. And even after spending a lot of time guiding for a lot of years, I mean, I'm 25 years or whatever now, like, this is my whole life, and I still sometimes get surprised by what people do or don't do that.

00:37:40:03 - 00:37:41:16
Silas
I'm like like, how.

00:37:41:16 - 00:37:43:05
Silas
Would that make sense?

00:37:43:07 - 00:37:43:23
Silas
Like, that is.

00:37:43:23 - 00:37:44:24
Silas
Not even close, but a.

00:37:44:24 - 00:37:46:12
Silas
Little bit of stress.

00:37:46:14 - 00:37:48:29
Silas
In in familiarity with.

00:37:49:02 - 00:37:59:27
Silas
Systems and sequencing is all just like, yeah, it's just all I'm forgetting for sure.

00:37:59:27 - 00:38:15:05
Kyle
think like you alluded to, there's definitely another kind of 20% rule where you know you're just dragging somebody up the wall essentially. And I, I find that good too, because I've had someone do that for me on Rainbow Wall and I didn't lead a single pitch.

00:38:15:06 - 00:38:20:13
Kyle
I mean, obviously I know safety systems, but it was more of like a, an ex flooring or a

00:38:24:01 - 00:38:31:06
Silas
Sure. Yeah.

00:38:31:06 - 00:38:33:10
Kyle
and she doesn't know a lot about the systems.

00:38:33:10 - 00:38:45:02
Kyle
Like, if things were to go really bad, it would still be on me to make sure that I can get us both off. And so there's like that level of, I need to make sure I don't put ourselves in a situation where, like, I would need to rely on

00:38:47:00 - 00:38:50:22
Silas
I would do it totally.

00:38:50:25 - 00:39:04:15
Silas
Yeah. I mean, I've even been out. You know, this is years ago with my wife, and we go out single pitch, cracking at the guns, and I hop on this thing. That's kind of hard for me, like early season. And I'm asking for a really good belay and, like, not too sure of me. And I'm like.

00:39:04:18 - 00:39:06:08
Silas
What am I doing? Like, I know.

00:39:06:08 - 00:39:07:00
Silas
Better than this.

00:39:07:00 - 00:39:12:17
Silas
Like, this is my this is my wife. She's good. Not a pro climber here. Why am I.

00:39:12:17 - 00:39:16:29
Silas
Asking for a perfect expert level belay?

00:39:17:01 - 00:39:18:19
Silas
Like, like. Don't be an.

00:39:18:19 - 00:39:36:03
Silas
Idiot, Silas.

00:39:36:06 - 00:39:37:21
Silas
Yeah, like like like one.

00:39:37:21 - 00:39:50:21
Silas
Variable at a time. For all of us, adding to the equation is really good, right?

00:39:50:23 - 00:39:57:05
Silas
Oh.

00:39:57:07 - 00:40:01:23
Silas
Oh, man. That's a big one. Next side we see here.

00:40:07:27 - 00:40:14:16
Silas
Well, I mean, I guess it's it's like this. Just this, like.

00:40:14:18 - 00:40:17:15
Silas
You could probably look at most.

00:40:17:18 - 00:40:34:11
Silas
Things you approach in life through a lens of either scarcity or abundance. And I mean, I kind of joked when I got in the call initially like, oh, it's a work call, right? Like I had a few. This has worked for me. So it's like, oh, I gotta, gotta be on time. I got a button down shirt and like, I'm like, in this, like, oh, we got to do this thing.

00:40:34:11 - 00:40:34:22
Silas
Like, do it.

00:40:34:22 - 00:40:38:27
Silas
Well, do it right, like nail it, get it done.

00:40:38:29 - 00:40:44:09
Silas
And I think that's a scarcity mindset, right. Like it's like doing this thing out of,

00:40:44:11 - 00:40:44:18
Silas
I don't.

00:40:44:18 - 00:40:46:21
Silas
Know, obligation or because it's work.

00:40:46:21 - 00:40:50:23
Silas
Or whatever, whereas like it's like, well.

00:40:50:26 - 00:40:54:26
Silas
And I had a minute this morning making breakfast, I'm like, hold the phone like.

00:40:54:28 - 00:40:58:12
Silas
Just take a beat, take a breath. This is an.

00:40:58:12 - 00:41:02:12
Silas
Amazing opportunity to to just speak with Kyle about climbing.

00:41:02:14 - 00:41:05:02
Silas
Have a lot of fun with it. Hopefully people will.

00:41:05:02 - 00:41:08:23
Silas
Learn something from it. A chance just to discuss.

00:41:08:23 - 00:41:12:28
Silas
Things for the really great person. And so I was.

00:41:12:28 - 00:41:28:15
Silas
Like, oh, okay, cool. Like that's way more interesting in a way more fun. Like, I can I can feel the joy and and like the love coming back in, like my love for climbing, my love for people, like my love for teaching other people and sharing what I think I know.

00:41:29:13 - 00:41:33:24
Silas
As opposed to like it being like, oh, I got to do this thing.

00:41:33:26 - 00:41:34:17
Silas
That sort of deal.

00:41:34:17 - 00:41:38:23
Silas
So I think it's like just really,

00:41:38:26 - 00:41:43:21
Silas
It's it's a subtle, but once it happens,

00:41:43:23 - 00:41:52:04
Silas
Significant shift in like, a paradigm or how you're viewing something.

00:41:56:16 - 00:42:08:19
Kyle
choice. Like we can choose to be anxious. We can choose to be, you know, in these different mental states. But in the end, I do think that we have, you know, obviously, there are some circumstances where we have to process, you know, hard things.

00:42:08:19 - 00:42:34:09
Kyle
But in the end, it's still our choice to ultimately reframe everything in a way where it gives us happiness and, and motivation. Because we can just beat ourselves up and build a prison in our minds, you know, pretty quickly. I think we as humans, we have a negativity bias. And that's how, like, our, our, our hardware is programed to pay attention to the negativity, to the bad things, to the sadness, like, because that's what keeps us alive, right?

00:42:34:10 - 00:42:56:02
Kyle
It's like we pay attention to those things out of survival. But, we don't need to do that. And it's definitely an actual internal mental choice to, like, reframe things in a way that makes us happy. And if things are if your circumstances are truly making you unhappy, then it's your job to change the physical circumstances that you're in and and not only reframe your mind, but your physical surroundings and the situations you find

00:42:57:18 - 00:43:06:24
Silas
Yeah. Really? Well, I said I think a lot of people, especially when you're starting to lead, will fall into that exact mentality, right? It's like.

00:43:06:26 - 00:43:08:00
Silas
Oh, I had to leave.

00:43:08:00 - 00:43:11:02
Silas
This thing like, it's really scary. It's going to be dangerous.

00:43:11:04 - 00:43:11:13
Silas
Like, what.

00:43:11:13 - 00:43:12:24
Silas
Do I do? And it's like, well.

00:43:12:26 - 00:43:16:02
Silas
You get to go tryhard you get to go.

00:43:16:02 - 00:43:28:06
Silas
Find out how hard it is. You you get to go have an adventure. Right. And I think, like, when that anxiety starts to step in, it's like just this big, overwhelming thing.

00:43:28:09 - 00:43:31:16
Silas
The. Now I have to write,

00:43:31:19 - 00:43:55:06
Silas
I mean, I, I've been doing this really cool, like, semester long program with a colleague here. We've taken a cohort of six people, from the last spring to this fall, we've had eight field days together, all together. And basically everyone was already climbing on their own. But they're working to become more independent. And kind of up their, their leaving level thing more confident.

00:43:55:08 - 00:43:59:26
Silas
And we had a day just a week or two ago, and it was kind of like everyone's at the beginning.

00:43:59:27 - 00:44:05:27
Silas
Like, oh my gosh, like, this is really like, I don't know if I want to try that. And it's like, well, this is the team.

00:44:05:27 - 00:44:11:11
Silas
And setting that you can go try stuff and not get committed. Like we're going, we'll get your gear.

00:44:11:11 - 00:44:12:08
Silas
Back, we'll get.

00:44:12:08 - 00:44:20:10
Silas
The rope back. Like you just need to lower off if you don't feel comfortable. And if you can take that next step into uncertainty.

00:44:20:12 - 00:44:21:11
Silas
Like.

00:44:21:14 - 00:44:25:09
Silas
And just see what happens, that's really the only thing you can do, right?

00:44:25:09 - 00:44:25:29
Silas
Like, don't.

00:44:25:29 - 00:44:31:07
Silas
Worry about the top of the pitch yet. Don't worry about the crux yet. Just have the gear you want.

00:44:31:10 - 00:44:32:09
Silas
Make a move.

00:44:32:11 - 00:44:48:27
Silas
See how it feels. You can weight gear. You can jump off. Take a short fall. You can put another piece in the lower off. Like don't worry about the commitment part. Just can you take one more step like literally and mentally toward the goal and see how it goes?

00:44:48:29 - 00:44:50:20
Silas
Right. And.

00:44:50:22 - 00:44:57:17
Silas
And this cohort is cohorts. Amazing, by the way. Twice we've had once this spring and once this fall.

00:44:57:19 - 00:44:58:12
Silas
3 to 4.

00:44:58:12 - 00:44:59:06
Silas
People in the.

00:44:59:06 - 00:44:59:19
Silas
Group.

00:44:59:26 - 00:45:11:07
Silas
Did their hardest lead on these days, like like either on site or redpoint. Hardest lead ever. And it's like and they're all kind of like shy about it and like, you know, humble about it, but it's like.

00:45:11:09 - 00:45:13:21
Silas
That's pretty badass.

00:45:13:23 - 00:45:27:02
Silas
And it's like you're saying it's it's this community. You surround yourself with this group of people that are supportive and, able to help mentor and give perspective on and give you some backup in case things aren't going the way you want them to. Like, we'll get the rope back. We'll get the gear back.

00:45:27:02 - 00:45:31:01
Silas
It's not a big deal. We'll figure it out.

00:45:31:01 - 00:45:37:02
Kyle
ifs. I definitely felt that recently on rostrum on pitch seven. It's like this 11 B have you climbed

00:45:37:21 - 00:45:38:29
Silas
No,

00:45:38:29 - 00:45:47:09
Kyle
fantastic. I highly recommend it. If he's seven, it's like this overhanging 11 b hand crack with like a pot in the middle. So, you know, it's like really wide in one spot.

00:45:47:09 - 00:46:03:03
Kyle
So you got to get past it. And that was the one pitch I was worried about. It was my lead. And I was like trying to do as much research on it, trying to get as many pictures on it, trying to visualize like what the movement was like to get through it. And by the time I get to the base of the pitch, I am fucking smoked like that.

00:46:03:04 - 00:46:17:25
Kyle
The climbing up to that point is so physical, like I have pictures of my face. I'm just like so gassed. And I'm like getting, getting, trying to, like, psych myself up for this pitch. And I'm just like, you can. I might go pro footage. I'm just like, God, I don't want to do this. I don't want to do this.

00:46:17:25 - 00:46:36:15
Kyle
You know, you can just, like, see the the overhanging pitch, from the belay and. Yeah, I mean, what are my choices there? It's like I could sit there and just steep myself in anxiety about, like, oh, I'm going to whip or, like, I'm not going to be able to get up or whatever, you know, or like, try to convince my partner who, you know, just led the off with pitch to try to take it for me.

00:46:36:15 - 00:46:53:20
Kyle
And I'm just like, I can't do that. And so, yeah, you just get to the point where you're just like, okay, like I'm going to take this one step at a time and I'm going to go up there and see what it's actually like, you know, and that's that's the thing is, you don't really know what you're capable of, what the route actually is going to require of you until you actually get on the wall

00:46:55:00 - 00:46:57:14
Silas
Totally.

00:46:57:14 - 00:47:30:17
Kyle
it wasn't a clean send I took. I think I probably took like three times, and just like rested on gear and yeah, I mean, I ultimately I got up to, I got up through it and climbed it. It wasn't clean, but, Yeah, it's just I've definitely as I started to push through these grades and get kind of push myself as a climber, there is something really, really important about just taking that step and forcing yourself to be into that environment and then problem solve, then assess your fear, then get into it when you're actually getting the feedback, in real time, rather than this visualization that isn't really

00:47:31:28 - 00:47:43:06
Silas
That's awesome. Congratulations. That's huge. I mean, it's it's it's a mindset, right? It's a total mindset and technical skills. You know, rope work. Your skills, like those things.

00:47:43:06 - 00:47:44:14
Silas
Will help.

00:47:44:17 - 00:47:58:01
Silas
Make you more competent to feel more confident on those situations. But really, it's just a mindset, right? And it's and it's the same mindset, no matter where you are in your career, is just developing that kind of resilience to to the unknown.

00:47:58:21 - 00:48:18:19
Kyle
I think I like what you said too, in the beginning about this is, I think a lot of people you say move away from fear. And I think a lot of people talk about, like, leaning into fear. And I think that that's the wrong way to frame it. Right? It's like we don't want to lean into fear and, like, just blatantly charge into fear like a bull to try to get through it.

00:48:18:22 - 00:48:35:07
Kyle
It's more important to, like, be a bit more graceful about it. And like you said, move away from it and then lean into joy or lean into the positive aspect of of that decision to move towards something uncomfortable in the first place. But I definitely don't think that we should just like, be super scared and do something anyway.

00:48:35:07 - 00:48:46:07
Kyle
Like, I don't want to be a scared climber. I hate like panic and fear and like being scared on lead. It's not fun. It's like, why? Why would I want to put myself in that situation in the first place? I don't ever want to

00:48:47:07 - 00:48:49:09
Silas
Totally. No, no, I have a.

00:48:49:09 - 00:48:51:08
Silas
Zero desire to do that anymore.

00:48:51:08 - 00:48:52:29
Silas
I.

00:48:52:29 - 00:49:07:12
Kyle
I think there's a group of people and maybe it's like a beginner climber thing, but there's like this rush or this joy that they get out of going into that fear state and then overcoming the fear or like getting super scared on lead and then getting through the cracks and making it.

00:49:07:12 - 00:49:27:08
Kyle
There's like this rush of release. Right? But I don't know. I just feel like when you're panicked and you're in a fear state, you're not going to be climbing your best. You're not. Your judgment skills aren't going to be very good. Your problem solving skills aren't going to be very good. And sure, you might be able to like, squeak the sand or squeak a clean, fall or whatever, but I don't know, after a certain amount of time.

00:49:27:08 - 00:49:36:16
Kyle
I feel like if you're constantly putting yourself in that situation, one you're bringing to your fry fryer, your neuro receptors out because you're in panic so much, and two, you're probably going to find yourself

00:49:39:09 - 00:49:40:21
Silas
For sure.

00:49:40:23 - 00:49:45:22
Silas
Mean. I think most of the time you're going to climb into worst danger, right?

00:49:45:22 - 00:49:47:29
Silas
You're not gonna be like. Oh, sweet.

00:49:47:29 - 00:49:52:06
Silas
I found that really, hard to find peace around the corner. Now I'm safe.

00:49:52:08 - 00:49:55:19
Silas
It's like you once in a while, maybe.

00:49:55:21 - 00:50:09:11
Silas
Yeah. A buddy of mine, uses the mantra, I have the time. I need to do this. Well, when climbing something dangerous or hard or, you know, both. And I really like that. I share that with clients a lot.

00:50:10:13 - 00:50:15:23
Silas
Because to your point, like, you don't want to be rushed like nothing good ever has come from being rushed.

00:50:15:25 - 00:50:19:16
Silas
Right? Like, the speed will come later.

00:50:19:19 - 00:50:25:27
Silas
But yeah, it shouldn't it shouldn't be a rushed feeling at all.

00:50:25:27 - 00:50:46:08
Kyle
back into, I guess, more of the nitty gritty stuff. I think that anchors are a pretty hot topic. On in the digital space. And it it always brings out the, the most interesting people, let's say, and I found I've got a couple questions specifically about, yeah, just anchors in general.

00:50:46:08 - 00:50:51:21
Kyle
So one of the ones that came up was so trackers were using, you know, gear.

00:50:51:23 - 00:50:52:08
Kyle
Well.

00:50:52:10 - 00:51:08:19
Kyle
What are your thoughts about multidirectional anchors and using them all the time? Because, you know, let's say I've got a three piece trad anchor above my head and they're all pointed down for the follower. And I'm also pitched in to the master point. And, you know, as the leader starts leading, you know, they get their first piece of pro.

00:51:08:19 - 00:51:24:25
Kyle
And so we're not going to factor to the anchor. But now if they were to fall, you know, the the philosophy, at least for the people commenting on this Instagram is that if the leader were to fall, now, the follower is going to get yanked up, and now the anchor that they're anchored to is no longer optimized for upward direction.

00:51:24:28 - 00:51:29:19
Kyle
Are you optimizing your anchors for upward pull in a multi pitch scenario or like,

00:51:31:04 - 00:51:33:05
Silas
Not usually that.

00:51:33:07 - 00:51:50:21
Silas
I think the piece that helps me feel good about that is that I make them really high. We talk about a lot in guide training, but less so in recreational climbing. Is that I try to build my anchors to the master point, or power point is like head to chest high, and that means my pieces are a foot or two above that, or more potentially.

00:51:50:21 - 00:51:52:19
Silas
Right. But I worked really hard to do that.

00:51:52:19 - 00:51:53:26
Silas
And what that.

00:51:53:26 - 00:52:15:27
Silas
Allows me is a couple of things. One, I can hang off the anchor really comfortably and belay well, and all that kind of stuff just helps. Like the overall like angle that I'm hanging off at is it feels like I'm being pulled together less with people on the ledge, etc. so just like it's a comfort thing, but then also for the next pitch, it helps a lot because I've already got high pieces or even the master point potentially.

00:52:16:00 - 00:52:17:00
Silas
To clip.

00:52:17:02 - 00:52:30:19
Silas
As my first piece, right? So I'm limiting the fall factor leaving the belay right away. Which is huge. And so the angle that that person's getting pulled on, if a leader does fall is more straight up, more like in-line with stuff.

00:52:30:22 - 00:52:33:06
Silas
And,

00:52:33:08 - 00:52:39:21
Silas
It's a lower full factor. So I'm not as worried about the catch being.

00:52:40:02 - 00:52:42:29
Silas
Well, being caught as I would if the pieces were lower.

00:52:42:29 - 00:52:45:01
Silas
Or the anchor were in the floor.

00:52:45:01 - 00:52:50:16
Silas
Or at my waist, I that sort of thing. So I think part of the reason I don't.

00:52:50:20 - 00:52:52:04
Silas
Have upward pull.

00:52:52:04 - 00:52:52:28
Silas
Anchors a lot of the.

00:52:52:28 - 00:52:54:02
Silas
Time is.

00:52:54:02 - 00:53:21:09
Silas
I've have my anchors high enough to limit the fall factor and not worry about getting caught. As much as some people do.

00:53:21:12 - 00:53:23:14
Silas
Yeah, I, I think I mean, it's it's a good.

00:53:23:14 - 00:53:24:11
Silas
Thing to worry.

00:53:24:11 - 00:53:25:14
Silas
About to.

00:53:25:14 - 00:53:40:19
Silas
Consider, but I just don't worry about it that much. I'm not a huge guy on the 170 pounds. I don't claim that many people that are less than 100 pounds. And so unless I'm worried about falling right off the belay with the fall factor is high.

00:53:40:21 - 00:53:41:00
Silas
With.

00:53:41:00 - 00:53:48:16
Silas
A small person, and maybe unable to clip a high piece. I'm just not that worried about it.

00:53:48:18 - 00:53:50:29
Silas
But.

00:53:51:02 - 00:53:51:19
Silas
Yeah.

00:53:51:22 - 00:53:59:10
Silas
I don't want to go into, like, the whole, like, fixed point lead belay thing. Really. We can if you want to.

00:53:59:13 - 00:54:00:09
Silas
But that that.

00:54:00:15 - 00:54:14:05
Silas
I think that that mentality of using a fixed point lead belay all the time, or most of the time comes from the same fear of that belay or getting displaced. But if I have my master pointed at head height in the piece is higher. Yet from that.

00:54:14:05 - 00:54:21:13
Silas
Like I've got to move, like I've got to get pulled up like 5 or 6ft before.

00:54:21:15 - 00:54:35:19
Silas
And before I even come tight to the anchor here. And if it's if the pieces are here and the anchor hangs down three feet, I have this three feet, which is six feet plus the master point to me, which is another three feet. I got to go like.

00:54:35:22 - 00:54:37:15
Silas
12ft.

00:54:37:18 - 00:54:45:08
Silas
Before I come tight to those pieces. I just don't see it happening very often.

00:54:45:08 - 00:54:58:10
Kyle
you were to get sucked up that high, that means that the piece the climbers falling on arrested their fall. And that is ultimately what's keeping you both attached to the wall along with the subsequent pieces below them. It's not your

00:54:59:12 - 00:55:11:15
Silas
Correct.

00:55:11:17 - 00:55:12:18
Silas
Yep, yep.

00:55:12:20 - 00:55:16:18
Silas
Totally. I mean, I mean, people are sometimes worried about the.

00:55:16:19 - 00:55:17:15
Silas
The the.

00:55:17:15 - 00:55:23:16
Silas
Layer getting displaced. So where I worry about that is like a traversing, pitch, leaving the.

00:55:23:16 - 00:55:24:15
Silas
Belay with a.

00:55:24:15 - 00:55:43:22
Silas
Person that get pulled straight sideways as opposed to like up more. So now their bodyweight isn't even helping them. So position at the anchor is really important. At least if not using a fixed point. Me belay like leaving a cave like ice climbing is a great example, right? Like I have to go sideways out of this really sheltered cave because I want to belay here and not get hit by ice.

00:55:43:22 - 00:55:44:02
Silas
And the next.

00:55:44:02 - 00:55:44:27
Silas
Pitch.

00:55:44:29 - 00:55:59:18
Silas
I'm going to traverse out ten feet and then go up like that's a situation that could be really useful to address something like this. And similarly, if I have an anchor, but then it's really hard and run out right off the belay.

00:55:59:20 - 00:56:00:08
Silas
With a fall.

00:56:00:08 - 00:56:04:03
Silas
Factor. Could be, could be even for factor two.

00:56:05:10 - 00:56:08:18
Silas
Or at least a very high fall factor clipped to the anchor.

00:56:09:18 - 00:56:12:25
Silas
Then I might use a fixed point lead belay to address.

00:56:12:27 - 00:56:13:13
Silas
The belay.

00:56:13:13 - 00:56:27:15
Silas
Or getting displaced. But I generally don't, worry about that as much as some people do. I mean, the French Guide Association, for example, basically is now teaching exclusively fixed point lead ballets.

00:56:28:27 - 00:56:46:08
Silas
But you have to account for both upward and downward pull from that anchor. If using a fixed point, we belay because at first, if they don't, if they don't clip any gear, they're going to fall down. Right. And when this is a do clipped gear, they'll get pulled up. So you can't have a lot of movement of that belay device or anchor.

00:56:46:10 - 00:56:51:23
Silas
If it flops up like we're talking about,

00:56:51:25 - 00:56:53:09
Silas
The

00:56:53:11 - 00:57:14:28
Silas
Yeah, there is a, the new, el rit Omega. I think I'm really interested to go try because this could be a solution. For all these scenarios that allows you to keep belaying with, like, an assisted breaking device on your waist, but reduce the reduce the fall. The impact force on the buoy here.

00:57:15:01 - 00:57:15:06
Silas
I.

00:57:15:06 - 00:57:43:03
Silas
Haven't used it. It's. Do you know the, there's a new version coming out of the Omega, which I have not played with. But I'm very curious to go try and see how that might work. It's much smaller. It's, a little bit more universally, useful. And so it might be a good solution to reduce the impact force on the player, even even in multi pitch scenarios like we're talking about.

00:57:43:05 - 00:57:56:03
Silas
Yeah. It should be able to hold upward and downward. You know like in the guns we have all these horizontals. So you plug in number one Kamelot basically pull up and down all day and you're you're psyched.

00:57:56:03 - 00:58:15:06
Kyle
these anchors. So I think that I would say beginner climbers, trad anchors are probably a bit overengineered. And probably for good reason. As we progress as climbers, I think, you know, you talk about adding efficiency without reducing safety. So I'd like to talk about a bit a couple more advanced kind of anchor building systems.

00:58:15:06 - 00:58:32:06
Kyle
And I think one of them that I see a lot of people doing that I have yet to experience myself, is like building an anchor with the rope. You I'd seen a picture of you. You clove hitch to a bolt backed up with a figure eight on a bite. Clip that to another bolt, and then you basically fixed point blade from the top with the second bolt.

00:58:32:08 - 00:58:37:20
Kyle
Super simple, super easy to set up. What are like the pros and cons to,

00:58:39:07 - 00:58:40:00
Silas
Well, the pro was.

00:58:40:00 - 00:58:44:04
Silas
I had literally one care, one non locker left on my harness and one Gregory.

00:58:44:07 - 00:58:51:01
Silas
So. So I made it happen. It was and was pretty psyched about that. I mean.

00:58:51:04 - 00:58:53:20
Silas
I think using the ropes is a great, a great tool.

00:58:55:01 - 00:58:56:00
Silas
What it doesn't do.

00:58:56:00 - 00:58:56:20
Silas
Well.

00:58:56:23 - 00:59:17:19
Silas
I mean, it's you got to carry anything, right? No anchor material. You always have the rope. Usually you're not doing a pitch that's like a rope stretcher, and you're going to have not any rope left over. But I think the the cons are that your rope is in the system, right? So if you're going to do block leading, it's really hard to do block leading if you have to use the rope for the anchor.

00:59:17:19 - 00:59:26:19
Silas
Right. Not very ideal. So swapping leads everyone can use the rope and it works perfectly. Haven't got to restack the rope or anything, right? It's just like.

00:59:26:21 - 00:59:30:11
Silas
Ready to go. Awesome.

00:59:30:13 - 00:59:47:04
Silas
The other disadvantage, like being in the system using the rope, is that if I have to, affect some kind of rescue, my my person, my climber is waiting the rope, which I need to get out. I need to get the weight off the rope in order to thread the rope to do repel or whatever I'm.

00:59:47:04 - 00:59:48:09
Silas
Going to do, right.

00:59:48:12 - 00:59:50:12
Silas
I can still haul. I can still lower.

00:59:50:15 - 00:59:50:28
Silas
But I.

00:59:50:28 - 00:59:53:06
Silas
Can't do like a full on.

00:59:53:08 - 00:59:55:00
Silas
Regular,

00:59:55:02 - 01:00:12:26
Silas
Half length rope propel that's retrievable. I can do a single rope propel once right before of length. But yeah, it's just you're in the system, so. So either of those scenarios like either doing block leading or having to escape the system and do, like some kind of.

01:00:13:24 - 01:00:19:20
Silas
Egress would mean you have to get out of the rope altogether to get a transfer load onto it to build another anchor transfer load.

01:00:19:21 - 01:00:21:22
Silas
Onto that anchor, and then and then get out of.

01:00:21:22 - 01:00:22:02
Silas
There.

01:00:22:02 - 01:00:43:25
Kyle
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01:01:23:29 - 01:01:43:19
Kyle
clipping a carabiner of one cam to a ceiling of another, and using that, like, because I, I've been starting to implement, like, a sliding X with an alpine draw to a couple of my cams, if I'm, like, past run out or approaching a cross section where I want double cams and I have the freedom to to do that, I've had a couple people be like, oh, that takes a lot of time.

01:01:43:19 - 01:01:52:21
Kyle
Just clip them in sequence. I've never actually done that. What are the pros and cons of clipping cams in sequence like that? Versus like, you know, attaching them with an alpine draw on

01:01:53:23 - 01:01:55:00
Silas
So.

01:01:55:02 - 01:01:58:10
Silas
Are you talking, like, on a pitch or in an anchor?

01:01:58:19 - 01:02:05:08
Kyle
I guess the situation I presented to you was in a pitch, but I guess in an anchor, it would be the principles are the same. No.

01:02:06:29 - 01:02:07:19
Silas
Yeah. To me, they're.

01:02:07:19 - 01:02:08:17
Silas
A little different.

01:02:10:03 - 01:02:28:17
Silas
So let's let's start with one, and maybe we'll get to the other one as well. Okay. Cool. So. Yeah. So. And maybe, however you want to share this, you could like, even put that little video in there or something. But so so that's the question one more time to some super clear,

01:02:28:17 - 01:02:45:05
Kyle
I'm on lead. I just got past a bit of a run out, and I want two pieces of protection to protect me during a fall. In this scenario. And I have the free time to, you know, place two cams, but I want them to be linked somehow so that if one pulls, I'm not loading the second.

01:02:45:08 - 01:02:50:28
Kyle
And to me, there's two ways to do that. Is this the sequences and then versus linking them with an alpine draw.

01:02:51:21 - 01:02:52:25
Silas
Sure. Yeah.

01:02:52:25 - 01:03:17:26
Silas
So the two I mean, there's lots of ways you can do this, right? But the basic principle is I want to have a strong enough and secure enough. Those are two things I think about. So even the size cam would might make me do very different things. And if the cams are different sizes from each other, also like two small cams is different than two big cams is different than one small cam and one big cam.

01:03:17:28 - 01:03:18:13
Silas
Right.

01:03:18:15 - 01:03:36:11
Silas
Because the overall strength. So if we have a, you know, a five campus and then a 12 campus, like those are very different things to me. As well as the actual security of the piece and the rock, like we've all put pieces in that we know are are good for this pull. But if I change that pool, it's not going to be very secure, right?

01:03:36:11 - 01:03:39:18
Silas
It's going to compromise the piece. If it moves at all or.

01:03:39:28 - 01:03:48:03
Silas
Whatever. So the overall strength and security of each piece is important part of the equation as well, at least to me.

01:03:49:01 - 01:04:01:29
Silas
So, so if I've been say, I've got a 20ft run out and, I want to add some security to my whole system. Right.

01:04:02:01 - 01:04:05:05
Silas
It'll just, it'll how I.

01:04:05:12 - 01:04:13:03
Silas
Choose to orient and configure this little, like, mini anchor will depend on those things.

01:04:13:06 - 01:04:19:10
Silas
So.

01:04:19:12 - 01:04:21:02
Silas
One can I guess. Well, there's.

01:04:21:02 - 01:04:22:00
Silas
A couple things to think about.

01:04:22:00 - 01:04:24:23
Silas
One is the.

01:04:24:25 - 01:04:27:29
Silas
The sharing of the load between the pieces.

01:04:28:01 - 01:04:28:22
Silas
So if.

01:04:28:22 - 01:04:29:20
Silas
Both pieces.

01:04:29:20 - 01:04:33:03
Silas
Are weaker, I might want.

01:04:33:03 - 01:04:34:14
Silas
To share the load.

01:04:34:17 - 01:04:36:01
Silas
Between them.

01:04:36:03 - 01:04:39:18
Silas
Because I'm, I'm equalizing the pull. Yeah. Just like an anchor.

01:04:39:18 - 01:04:43:23
Silas
Right. I've got two five cm pieces together.

01:04:43:25 - 01:04:49:09
Silas
You know, at least in theory, they're ten cn. That's a really great piece.

01:04:49:11 - 01:04:50:28
Silas
Versus 210.

01:04:50:28 - 01:05:06:06
Silas
K pieces. I'm not really worried about the strength of those pieces. Right. So strength overall and then security is sometimes like how many non lockers are connecting me to the mountain. So if I have two pieces.

01:05:06:09 - 01:05:09:03
Silas
I could just clip the cam loop on.

01:05:09:03 - 01:05:18:20
Silas
One cam up on the second. And if they're both good big pieces and two non lockers that's kind of like simplest and best case scenario in some ways right.

01:05:18:20 - 01:05:20:11
Silas
Like clip clip. Cool.

01:05:20:11 - 01:05:23:28
Silas
Now I got two pieces between me in the hospital. They're both really strong and strong.

01:05:23:28 - 01:05:27:26
Silas
And bomber good to go. One problem could.

01:05:27:26 - 01:05:45:10
Silas
Be that the second piece I clip up higher is actually weaker or marginal. Right. So something that has happened at least several times I've heard of anecdotally is that I put a good piece in, I put a crappier piece in higher because I want the fall to be shorter.

01:05:45:12 - 01:05:48:22
Silas
The I fall, I weight that piece.

01:05:48:22 - 01:05:58:14
Silas
Enough to elongate the rope. Then the piece fails. And what that does is send like a spiral like slinky spring looking.

01:05:58:17 - 01:06:00:08
Silas
Thing both.

01:06:00:08 - 01:06:10:17
Silas
Ways on the rope toward me and toward the player. And what has happened is that those slinky curlicues do weird things either unclip the next.

01:06:10:17 - 01:06:12:03
Silas
Carabiner or.

01:06:12:07 - 01:06:14:03
Silas
Could like tie like some sort of.

01:06:14:03 - 01:06:15:00
Silas
Hitch.

01:06:15:02 - 01:06:19:24
Silas
And and lock you off on that piece, which in class increases the impact force a.

01:06:19:24 - 01:06:21:08
Silas
Lot.

01:06:21:10 - 01:06:31:22
Silas
So those things are both bad, bad things to happen, obviously. So if I'm worried about the integrity of the pieces pulling, I might choose to do something like equalize them.

01:06:31:25 - 01:06:32:27
Silas
Or at.

01:06:32:27 - 01:06:53:12
Silas
Least have a runner on the top piece that brings it down to the same level as the lower piece, right? Like I've got the lower piece here clipped to the cam loop. Upper pieces weaker. Not as good, but I've got a longer draw that's roughly equalize. Kind of same zone. So that they kind of get sharing the load, or if they don't share the load, there's not much distance that it does.

01:06:53:14 - 01:06:56:13
Silas
Spring back.

01:06:56:15 - 01:06:57:00
Silas
And then the.

01:06:57:00 - 01:06:59:23
Silas
Other scenario, I guess, like you're talking about the magic ax.

01:06:59:25 - 01:07:08:06
Silas
Like I might use either to to weaker pieces to smaller pieces or, maybe I want.

01:07:08:08 - 01:07:20:27
Silas
One not to get pulled a certain direction. So one piece is holding it from getting pulled a certain way. Then I might do a magic X, but I'll probably use, if I can, either a locker or two non lockers in that magic.

01:07:20:27 - 01:07:21:21
Silas
Ax.

01:07:21:23 - 01:07:24:11
Silas
Attached to my rope like two non lockers. Opps. And a pose would.

01:07:24:11 - 01:07:24:29
Silas
Be.

01:07:25:01 - 01:07:37:20
Silas
Ideal. Because I've got two small pieces and still two non lockers on the rope side. I probably worry more about the rope on clipping from draws. More than some people do.

01:07:38:13 - 01:07:47:13
Kyle
I mean, that would be. That would be a an unfortunate circumstance to find yourself in. That's one of those things. It's. You just don't want. You don't want to happen.

01:07:47:18 - 01:08:08:00
Silas
Yeah. So if I've got like a, you know, 0.5 and a .75 Kamelot magic xt awesome. Like like mini anchor. Totally. Right. 22 can sling, but then the weak point becomes one non locker, but the rope is clipped through on that mini anchor. So just adding a second non locker option opposed. Or a locker.

01:08:08:03 - 01:08:11:16
Silas
Really.

01:08:11:18 - 01:08:15:05
Silas
I shouldn't matter I should be okay

01:08:15:23 - 01:08:37:05
Kyle
Yeah, I guess for for me. And it's probably self I don't know just like a issue for me. But I'm always worried about like the CN. Sure. That's like in a great placement but I don't know cams do funky things like I don't ever when I need the cams to hold, I'm always like, I want to just in case one of them flies out of the crack for some reason, like I did.

01:08:37:07 - 01:08:52:18
Kyle
Maybe it was Sandy, or than I thought maybe it was moister than I thought. Maybe, you know, it wasn't. The cam lobe wasn't engaged as much as I thought it was like for me, I'm not willing. Like even if the can rating's like 12 can and it's like, looks like a bomber. Number one. If that is the only piece between me and the hospital, I'm there's got to be another

01:08:53:14 - 01:08:54:14
Silas
Yeah.

01:08:54:17 - 01:09:04:13
Silas
I think it's a great point out. I mean, we're making a protection system on the pitch, right? It's not relying on one piece, hopefully very often. I mean, even even if it's just, like one.

01:09:04:17 - 01:09:06:05
Silas
Great bolt.

01:09:06:08 - 01:09:08:15
Silas
That I'm 30ft run out.

01:09:08:17 - 01:09:12:15
Silas
I might put two quick tries on there, you know, like.

01:09:12:18 - 01:09:15:21
Silas
Like often oppose quick draws or one lock or draw.

01:09:15:23 - 01:09:16:04
Silas
Cool.

01:09:16:05 - 01:09:24:24
Silas
Like now I feel good about it. But you know just one non locking quick draw on a bolt 30ft out from the last thing.

01:09:24:27 - 01:09:25:26
Silas
And maybe if the fall is.

01:09:25:26 - 01:09:37:24
Silas
Totally clean and I'm to the side, I know it's clipped correctly with the gate facing the right way and like totally. But if I'm like going to go up and weird directions or not know where I'm going to go or whatever.

01:09:37:26 - 01:09:38:23
Silas
Yeah.

01:09:38:25 - 01:09:41:24
Silas
I mean, it takes like, takes like no time, right?

01:09:41:24 - 01:09:56:21
Kyle
like these, these extra steps that we're talking about. Take maybe another couple seconds and it's like that's the even just the peace of mind is something like again, we talked about this whole fear thing. Like, you don't want to be climbing above a piece and having to think about that piece at all.

01:09:56:25 - 01:10:24:15
Kyle
Like, you don't want to have to think about the stuff below you. What about partnerships? So we, you know, hopefully I've been blessed with this in my life, but regular climbing partners, people who are just like our ride and die, we tackle our objectives together. Should we be climbing using the same tactics, the same gear, the same rack, the same systems to attach ourselves to the anchor?

01:10:24:15 - 01:10:42:02
Kyle
The same anchor building mentality is like, should we kind of like, merge in a way and come to an agreement on style to best be efficient in the mountains? Or is there a place for each person to bring kind of their own approach to the systems and both understand what that is?

01:10:42:25 - 01:10:45:26
Silas
That's interesting question. Probably a little bit of both.

01:10:45:26 - 01:10:50:20
Silas
Right. As long as it's not, like, completely disparate.

01:10:50:23 - 01:10:51:19
Silas
Strategies.

01:10:51:19 - 01:11:04:21
Silas
I think it's probably great. Right? I remember, like, what comes to mind is like, Tommy Caldwell and, Alex Honnold climbing Patagonia. I mean, I think maybe they're more similar now, but I think, like, back in the day, they probably were.

01:11:04:21 - 01:11:05:03
Silas
Pretty.

01:11:05:03 - 01:11:11:26
Silas
Pretty different, mentalities and, and techniques coming into that partnership.

01:11:11:28 - 01:11:13:19
Silas
I mean, it's ex it could.

01:11:13:19 - 01:11:15:22
Silas
Be some of the best stuff, right?

01:11:16:19 - 01:11:24:20
Silas
I mean, as long as things are meeting certain parameters and concepts, I think it's great. I think that the, the earlier in your.

01:11:24:20 - 01:11:27:16
Silas
Career that we all are.

01:11:27:16 - 01:11:31:16
Silas
And the less we know, less experience we have.

01:11:31:18 - 01:11:32:28
Silas
The more the.

01:11:32:28 - 01:11:36:09
Silas
More hesitant we will be to do it a different way than what we.

01:11:36:09 - 01:11:38:00
Silas
Learned.

01:11:38:03 - 01:11:57:28
Silas
But I think the real, the real art of it is, is being like, okay, this person like, can I see that this person's doing it differently than me? But it's meeting all the it's checking all the boxes that I want to check, like the concepts that they're accomplishing are all the same concepts I'm trying to accomplish.

01:11:58:00 - 01:12:01:01
Silas
Just done in a different way.

01:12:01:03 - 01:12:02:28
Silas
And you know, what can I learn from what they're.

01:12:02:28 - 01:12:03:29
Silas
Doing and.

01:12:03:29 - 01:12:07:03
Silas
What could I share that they might be able to take away from from what I'm doing?

01:12:07:03 - 01:12:16:21
Kyle
I thought of this analogy when I was cooking eggs in the morning one day. I was like there's. What is it. There's multiple ways to skin a cat, but there's, I feel like there's also this, like there's multiple

01:12:18:06 - 01:12:20:19
Silas
Totally.

01:12:20:19 - 01:12:22:05
Kyle
over medium, I can fry it.

01:12:22:05 - 01:12:28:12
Kyle
I can do sunnyside up. And yeah, I'm going to get kind of a slightly different version of an egg. But in the end I'm just

01:12:29:08 - 01:12:30:19
Silas
Yeah.

01:12:30:19 - 01:12:35:02
Kyle
that there is kind of that analogy? It transfers to climbing, like there's multiple ways to fry

01:12:35:25 - 01:12:37:27
Silas
Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

01:12:37:27 - 01:12:40:20
Kyle
is there a one way that's best, though?

01:12:40:20 - 01:12:53:27
Kyle
Do you feel like obviously it depends on the circumstances that you're getting in. But, you know, for each circumstance that we find ourselves in climbers, each objective that we choose is there a single best way and a single best set of gear to tackle that objective?

01:12:54:13 - 01:12:55:17
Silas
It's a good question. It's.

01:12:55:17 - 01:12:56:14
Silas
It's worth.

01:12:56:14 - 01:13:13:29
Silas
Wondering about. Let's put it that way. It's worth being curious, at least from my perspective. Like, what is the single best way I think I can accomplish this right now? I think all the things I learned like that's me. I just can't help but like, my mind runs that way all the time. Like I'm an optimizer.

01:13:14:02 - 01:13:14:21
Silas
You know, the.

01:13:14:21 - 01:13:25:09
Silas
Reality is there's probably 20 ways to do something or more. And there's a couple that are like, definitely wrong and a couple that are probably like really pretty much like the best ones.

01:13:25:11 - 01:13:31:17
Silas
Like objectively, and a whole bunch in the middle that like, yeah, that works.

01:13:31:21 - 01:13:35:28
Silas
As you know, it takes more material, it takes more time.

01:13:36:01 - 01:13:36:19
Silas
Doesn't.

01:13:36:21 - 01:13:42:09
Silas
Check these boxes, whatever. But it's going to work. And things are largely untested with climbing, right.

01:13:43:09 - 01:13:54:18
Silas
I mean, it's it's just like carpentry, which I grew up doing for my dad. My brother and sister still do a lot of carpentry. Every carpenter you meet will will frame the house.

01:13:54:20 - 01:13:54:29
Silas
Or.

01:13:54:29 - 01:14:00:00
Silas
Trim the window or roof that, like, it'll all be slightly different, like variations on.

01:14:00:00 - 01:14:02:17
Silas
A theme, right? And I mean.

01:14:02:17 - 01:14:06:18
Silas
That's part of the creative process, is just having fun, inventing a different way.

01:14:06:18 - 01:14:07:12
Silas
Or.

01:14:07:15 - 01:14:15:20
Silas
Doing it in a way that works for you. Like we all have different body types, different strengths. We see things differently. So I think that's part of the fun is like figuring out what way works best for.

01:14:15:20 - 01:14:20:24
Silas
You or a couple of ways, but we just can't.

01:14:20:26 - 01:14:25:17
Silas
You know, put ourselves in this box of doing it this way every time, forever.

01:14:25:19 - 01:14:26:23
Silas
We want to be curious.

01:14:26:23 - 01:14:32:08
Silas
We want to be critically minded. We want to try to think outside the box and wonder like, well.

01:14:32:08 - 01:14:32:24
Silas
Why.

01:14:32:24 - 01:14:51:21
Silas
Did my mentor or friend show me that way? Right? Like, it's not just do it this way. It's like, well, why? Like, what are the concepts you're trying to accomplish here with these, with these techniques? So I think like that's I mean, to me that's good instruction, right? It's like trying to figure out the why behind what you're doing.

01:14:51:25 - 01:15:10:23
Silas
And then if you can, you know, as tools and techniques evolve, as we learn different things, we understand things differently or better. We can keep meeting the same concepts in a different way, in a way that is more efficient and more fast and safer and more fun and

01:15:10:26 - 01:15:11:21
Silas
Yada yada, right?

01:15:11:21 - 01:15:34:05
Silas
Like if you go read some books from, climbing in the Alps, you know, a hundred years ago, a lot of the things they talk about philosophically are exactly the same in a technical sense of what we do climbing today. But all the tools have drastically changed right in our and our shared group of knowledge has changed a lot too.

01:15:34:08 - 01:15:34:15
Silas
So.

01:15:34:15 - 01:15:40:23
Silas
We should be doing things, you know, we should be evolving, with time, as things change.

01:15:40:23 - 01:15:54:21
Kyle
So you're saying there's always going to be a new best way to do things as tools evolve. But like today there is technically a best way to do a certain objective with a certain set of tools that currently exist.

01:15:56:15 - 01:15:57:05
Silas
I think you got.

01:15:57:05 - 01:15:58:20
Silas
To cater to your own strengths.

01:15:58:20 - 01:16:08:11
Silas
Right.

01:16:08:14 - 01:16:13:21
Silas
Yeah.

01:16:13:24 - 01:16:25:03
Silas
And English. And we should. Right. Like, if you're carrying the same rack that I carry. On a route I know in the bunks, like the back of my hand. And it's your first lead at that level.

01:16:25:06 - 01:16:28:28
Silas
That's a mistake, right?

01:16:29:00 - 01:16:39:00
Silas
Like I do all these, you know, similar to your POV videos, I have, like, a catalog of YouTube videos, all the classics, and I've got a, three and 60 camera and stuff.

01:16:39:02 - 01:16:40:10
Silas
And.

01:16:40:12 - 01:16:43:23
Silas
You know, if someone who's breaking into five nine is leading.

01:16:43:26 - 01:16:45:02
Silas
MMF.

01:16:45:04 - 01:16:53:26
Silas
In the same way, the same speed, with the same gear, that I'm leading MMF for my 75th time, like, is that smart?

01:16:53:26 - 01:16:57:08
Silas
I don't know it. Maybe not. You.

01:16:57:08 - 01:17:15:02
Kyle
really like that because I this with RAC specifically I think this is a huge topic because you got a mountain project that says the RAC right. And you're just like okay that's what I'm going to bring. But I think there's way different between like the onsite RAC, also like the onsite RAC, if it's near your limit on site, RAC if it's way below your limit.

01:17:15:04 - 01:17:34:25
Kyle
Versus like the I've climbed this 75 times and I know exactly where all the placements are and I know how to completely dial my entire kit like I. Someone posted their RAC for Moonlight Buttress and I was just like, I looked at it and I was like, is this like an onsite RAC or is this a I've read pointed this route 50 times RAC you know, I didn't get a response, but I was looking at the number of cams.

01:17:34:25 - 01:17:58:08
Kyle
I was like, there's no fucking way I would go up to that client with that little bit, that small amount of gear. And honestly, the switch, you know, even now, with the progress that I've made, part of the reason why I've made the progression in the first place is because I have, you know, every time I see, you know, oh, bring doubles from this size, I bring triples, you know, and it's like, I've never, never not regretted or never regretted it.

01:17:58:08 - 01:18:10:25
Kyle
And I've always pretty much used them all, like, I'll get to the anchor and I'll have nothing left. You know, I joke, I'm like, because my my partner is definitely very strict, about, like, just bringing the least amount of gear possible, and I'm the exact opposite.

01:18:17:19 - 01:18:18:03
Kyle
anything.

01:18:18:05 - 01:18:25:13
Kyle
And I always carry the cams, like, unfollow. I carry the cams he doesn't want, but I end up. It's funny. I end up being like a, like a black market

01:18:30:29 - 01:18:37:00
Silas
Totally. Turn. Screw.

01:18:37:00 - 01:18:37:15
Kyle
and it's.

01:18:37:15 - 01:19:00:13
Kyle
So I think it's good. It's good to have a couple extra cams for the team. Because you never know what you're gonna get yourself into. And, Yeah, again, I've never regretted not using them. And it's giving me the freedom and the courage to go after routes and not have to feel like I'm run out or, you know, even having extra cams on both sides so that when you get to a crux and you want the cam on the left, but you already use the cam on the left, and now you got to like, cross over to try

01:19:02:06 - 01:19:04:08
Silas
Yeah.

01:19:04:08 - 01:19:18:04
Kyle
possible, I want to see a crack, pick a size, look down, have it to grab, throw it in the crack. I don't want to have to be like, well, I ran out of that size. Now I got to think of something else that's less ideal, you know? Yeah, sufficiency is key for there. Lots of gear is better.

01:19:18:13 - 01:19:20:02
Silas
Yeah, I mean, it it comes.

01:19:20:02 - 01:19:26:03
Silas
Back to the point I think I mentioned earlier, which is for me, like, if you know that the more variables there are at.

01:19:26:03 - 01:19:27:07
Silas
Play.

01:19:27:10 - 01:19:46:07
Silas
Which is another way to say, like, the more unknowns there are for me going in this situation, I just want more options, right? If I'm going in my local crag and climbing routes, I know. Yeah, like I don't need as many options, right? Like I'm going to bring exactly this rack. Exactly this rope, in the Alps, like, you know, we the rope length is a huge thing, like 30, 40, 50 meter rope.

01:19:46:07 - 01:19:50:00
Silas
Like, what are you going to bring? Because you like your 30 less feet of rope all day. It's like.

01:19:50:28 - 01:20:10:10
Silas
If I don't know the route, I'm gonna bring the long rope because I do not really. Well, yeah, I can get about 30 meter rope. But the other thing on that note is that in my early years guiding in Acadia National Park, Otter Cliff is like a sea cliff climbing where you walk the top 60ft down to the ocean.

01:20:10:12 - 01:20:13:01
Silas
And I don't know, it was my.

01:20:13:01 - 01:20:16:17
Silas
First second year, but my my mentor John there was like.

01:20:16:17 - 01:20:18:20
Silas
Well, we'll just go do your guiding.

01:20:18:20 - 01:20:19:13
Silas
Day that you've done.

01:20:19:13 - 01:20:20:08
Silas
There.

01:20:20:11 - 01:20:23:03
Silas
50, 100 days, but bring a different.

01:20:23:03 - 01:20:27:09
Silas
Rack or bring half the rack or don't bring a rack, right.

01:20:27:09 - 01:20:29:14
Silas
Bring an anchor line instead. And so.

01:20:29:14 - 01:20:31:12
Silas
Just trying to.

01:20:31:12 - 01:20:32:12
Silas
Trying to work.

01:20:32:12 - 01:20:33:18
Silas
On doing.

01:20:33:18 - 01:20:37:23
Silas
More with less when you can is a really good skill to.

01:20:37:23 - 01:20:39:08
Silas
Develop.

01:20:39:11 - 01:20:57:19
Silas
So I'm totally with you. Like if it's, if it's like doing one more thing, it's probably gonna be more camps. And when you're in areas that, you know, or you can choose to skim things down or not bring as much or change up your kit, bring your buddies forge friends from eons ago and not your fancy totems.

01:20:58:16 - 01:21:02:23
Silas
That's a great chance to, like, work on a different set of skills that will help you actually.

01:21:02:25 - 01:21:04:25
Silas
Become more well-rounded.

01:21:06:03 - 01:21:08:08
Kyle
What about. So I did

01:21:09:23 - 01:21:13:14
Silas
Nice graduation.

01:21:13:14 - 01:21:23:25
Kyle
and first time aid climbing actually at all. But during the French free process I got used to using like, double. I forget what they're called, like,

01:21:25:19 - 01:21:30:10
Silas
Although, you know.

01:21:30:12 - 01:21:32:02
Silas
Nice.

01:21:32:02 - 01:21:39:09
Kyle
is fantastic. You know, like, you don't even have to yell take. You don't have to do anything. You just clip into a cam, clip into a bowl. You just take and sit there and

01:21:39:26 - 01:21:42:12
Silas
Was it the peasant style you saw, like, yank through? Like a.

01:21:42:12 - 01:21:44:21
Silas
Ratchet? Yeah.

01:21:49:04 - 01:21:49:27
Silas
Yeah.

01:21:49:29 - 01:21:52:16
Silas
Yeah. The pencil makes the thing called the evolve. Adjust as.

01:21:52:16 - 01:21:53:04
Silas
Well.

01:21:53:06 - 01:22:05:16
Silas
That is made just for, like, a speed daisy, which is two of those things that are extra long, like, the cord is like six feet long, whatever, as opposed to just.

01:22:06:24 - 01:22:12:08
Silas
That on that note, the new petal connect. Adjust the different mechanism, different rope.

01:22:12:11 - 01:22:14:26
Silas
It's really, really good. It's it's.

01:22:14:26 - 01:22:19:19
Silas
Exceptional. Like at the old one. I know exactly. You mean it's kind of sticky. So she got the other rope.

01:22:19:19 - 01:22:22:02
Silas
Got

01:22:22:05 - 01:22:26:00
Silas
But the new one is fantastic.

01:22:26:00 - 01:22:39:00
Kyle
So the concept in general of that was so eye opening, and I feel like, what do you think about having that be like a skill that people practice right on the beginning. When you're drag climbing. Because I don't know, it added such a sense of security.

01:22:39:00 - 01:23:07:19
Kyle
It's like you, you can just clip into anything at any time. And like immediately if you need to, if you like, it gets hard for you and you're like, man, this is really hard. You can just clip into your cams in French free. Like, yeah, it's a tactic to move quickly up a route like Half Dome. But I feel like if I were told that in the beginning of my climbing like that is such a key skill, like instead of just flailing at some sort of crux that I'm unable to get through, to have that as a backup is such an eye opening like tactic.

01:23:07:21 - 01:23:15:26
Kyle
Do you feel like it's a it's a skill that's, you know, lost to kind of beginner climbers and something that only advanced climbers,

01:23:17:20 - 01:23:19:22
Silas
I mean, it might be. Yeah. I mean, I know.

01:23:19:22 - 01:23:31:22
Silas
Like, climbing with a connected, just style thing on your harness all the time. Is really popular in Europe. Like, almost every recreational climber has that. And they want even closer to an ankle. They'll just get to an anchor and clip in.

01:23:31:25 - 01:23:35:07
Silas
And it's fast for sure. I think it's a great tool.

01:23:35:07 - 01:23:54:18
Silas
I last week and I actually taught, in this cohort we focused on some, some aid climbing, actually, that I was mentioning the cohort, the semester long thing. And we did exactly that. We did one pitch where it was like, just kind of French freeing, and the next pitch was like, just aiders, like ladders, but no, no clipping in, and then so we combine it all at the end, of course.

01:23:54:18 - 01:23:57:07
Silas
But yeah, it's a fantastic tool.

01:23:57:10 - 01:24:00:20
Silas
Absolutely. I was gonna.

01:24:00:21 - 01:24:02:02
Silas
Mention one last thing that I've forgotten what it.

01:24:02:02 - 01:24:06:04
Silas
Was, but. Oh, I mean, the the other.

01:24:06:04 - 01:24:19:12
Silas
Real advantage of that is if you're clipped directly to a piece, which could also be a draw or something, right? Two quick draws or whatever. Alpine draw. You're having the load on that piece that you're hanging on, right? Versus clipping your rope high.

01:24:19:15 - 01:24:20:29
Silas
And then having it take.

01:24:21:02 - 01:24:28:03
Silas
Your you're literally having the force on that piece just by hanging on it because you're not using the 2 to 1.

01:24:29:00 - 01:24:31:14
Silas
Pull you full effect of.

01:24:31:17 - 01:24:38:20
Silas
Of the redirect like a top rope.

01:24:38:23 - 01:24:40:02
Silas
Well, yeah. I mean.

01:24:40:05 - 01:24:40:26
Silas
Just half the.

01:24:40:26 - 01:24:41:13
Silas
Force.

01:24:41:13 - 01:24:46:17
Silas
So however good the pieces.

01:24:46:19 - 01:24:46:26
Silas
I mean.

01:24:47:01 - 01:25:01:01
Silas
The other piece of it, too, is that you're you're reducing the fall distance as well, which is an aid climbing technique. Right. So if you clip the piece high and pull in, hang on that piece, but the lead rope is still below you. You haven't introduced five to.

01:25:01:03 - 01:25:02:20
Silas
More rope.

01:25:02:23 - 01:25:10:28
Silas
For that piece fails, right? So when you're when you're lead climbing, when you're lead aiding your lead rope should always be below your waist.

01:25:11:00 - 01:25:12:19
Silas
Right?

01:25:12:21 - 01:25:18:22
Silas
And hopefully you're not clipped to a piece that is very far below your waist. With an aider.

01:25:18:24 - 01:25:24:21
Silas
You don't fall directly on it right? Yeah. That's cool. That's really cool.

01:25:24:21 - 01:25:42:18
Kyle
good. We're we're after the rostrum. We were like going to do adult tower run and get ready for need. But we got so spanked by the rostrum that we just were like, we need to reevaluate this objective a little bit. So we pushed it back a year. My buddy Bryce and I are going to go for the nose in three days.

01:25:42:20 - 01:25:44:21
Kyle
In the spring. And then then go for

01:25:44:21 - 01:25:46:14
Silas
Yep.

01:25:46:17 - 01:25:50:14
Silas
Nice. Okay, keep keep an eye out for that.

01:25:59:05 - 01:26:02:20
Silas
Well, he's he's right at my feet right now. He looks looks pretty calm.

01:26:02:20 - 01:26:05:22
Silas
He's not sleeping, but he's chill pretty hard.

01:26:05:24 - 01:26:07:12
Silas
No, I think that was great.

01:26:07:15 - 01:26:13:03
Silas
I really appreciate the conversation. And all the the thoughtful questions and and listening to me ramble.

01:26:13:06 - 01:26:14:24
Silas
Thank you.

01:26:14:24 - 01:26:28:13
Kyle
you're busy, man. And, Yeah, just but I everybody has loved your episodes and really respects and, like, loves the information that you put out to the climbing community. So, it's an honor to, to be able to sit here and just chat

01:26:29:20 - 01:26:37:09
Silas
Thanks, Carl. Yeah. Like, likewise. For sure. I really appreciate the time and, and all the effort and expertise and say, for your personal climbing recently.

01:26:37:10 - 01:26:38:13
Silas
Good for you.

01:26:38:13 - 01:26:47:14
Kyle
Thanks. Yeah. We're going to keep it going. Keep it going, I feel. Oh, I've been recently thinking about this, like, bell curve of performance and how we're

01:26:50:06 - 01:26:52:04
Silas
Yeah.

01:26:52:04 - 01:27:05:02
Kyle
the point now where, like, it's. I'm cresting, I'm cresting. I feel the inevitable kind of like, downward, movement headed my way, which is kind of, a main reason why I've been, like, just it's time to do these objectives.

01:27:05:02 - 01:27:19:00
Kyle
You know, I can't. It's like, now or never, kind of thing. How have you experienced that kind of bell curve and, like, do you feel like you've peaked in your physical performance? How have that? How is that kind of mental, thing

01:27:19:28 - 01:27:20:27
Silas
It's a good.

01:27:20:29 - 01:27:21:24
Silas
It's a good question.

01:27:21:24 - 01:27:24:24
Silas
Like I, I guess I have amazing.

01:27:24:24 - 01:27:28:26
Silas
Days or outings now and I'm like.

01:27:28:28 - 01:27:34:24
Silas
I wonder if that's as good as it's ever going to get. You know what I mean? But I mean, that said, I have.

01:27:34:26 - 01:27:36:22
Silas
So many friends and colleagues that.

01:27:36:22 - 01:27:38:28
Silas
Are, you know, the the curve.

01:27:38:28 - 01:27:55:13
Silas
Has, has leveled and plateaued a bit, but they're still making progress. And, and so I do think that climbing is one of those things that if you, if you want it to be and choose to put the time and effort in that, you actually can keep developing and and improving for a very long time, like, well into your 60s.

01:27:56:18 - 01:28:07:15
Silas
And yeah, I mean, lifestyle is a big part of that for sure. And, and type of climbing style of climbing, like a lot of friends I have are definitely alpine ice climbing, less and more sport climbing.

01:28:07:18 - 01:28:10:17
Silas
As I get older.

01:28:10:19 - 01:28:18:01
Silas
But yeah, I think it's a good thing. It's a really pretty good sport for longevity, for sure. Yeah, don't do that.

01:28:18:04 - 01:28:19:27
Silas
Don't you know no other injuries?

01:28:19:27 - 01:28:32:04
Silas
No. No falling injuries.

01:28:32:07 - 01:28:38:18
Silas
So good.

01:28:39:13 - 01:28:45:12
Silas
Start strength training before you think you should. That was a pretty big one.

01:28:45:14 - 01:28:48:02
Silas
Resting more was a big one.

01:28:48:04 - 01:28:54:24
Silas
And there was also, like, a third of I just being curious because you probably don't know everything.

01:28:55:10 - 01:29:01:04
Silas
That you think, you know, was it was in there for sure. And then don't get hurt was also pretty high in the list.

01:29:01:07 - 01:29:03:26
Silas
You. Yeah. I mean, just being.

01:29:03:26 - 01:29:07:10
Silas
Kind yourself in and outside of climbing, I think goes a long way, kind of hits all.

01:29:07:10 - 01:29:13:20
Silas
Those all those points. You're the man. Good. Talk to you.

01:29:15:20 - 01:29:34:13
Kyle
That's it for today's episode, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you like today's episode, please head on over to Spotify or Apple Podcast to give this show five stars. This simple gesture significantly helps this community grow. Stay tuned for our next episode, where I sit down with the developer of the Nooks and the filmmaker behind an exciting new climbing film called The Developer.

01:29:34:16 - 01:29:40:10
Kyle
Until then, stay safe. Have fun, and thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. I'll see you on two weeks.