96 | The Mountain Angel: A Life of Search & Rescue in The High Sierra w/ Dean Rosnau Part 1

As we progress as climbers and inevitably turn our gaze toward higher peaks and more remote objectives, a common lesson begins to emerge: the mountains are a dangerous place to play. But early on, this remains a lesson heard, not truly learned. Inevitably, with enough time spent in remote places, something is bound to happen—either directly to us, or to someone close enough to sear this truth into our souls.

From an early age, Dean Rosnau found himself brushing shoulders with death, learning not only that the mountains are dangerous—but that life itself is dangerous, and that our actions can carry severe consequences. Looking at your friend’s body in a casket, and watching a fallen climber bleed out at the base of Bridalveil Falls all before the age of 10 would shape anyone. What Dean didn’t know at the time was that the world was preparing him for some of the most challenging, demanding, and ultimately rewarding years of his life: those spent on the Search and Rescue team for the Eastern Sierra.

Dean has since accumulated over 35 years of SAR work, recovered 66 bodies, and completed over 800 individual rescue missions—with more than 2.5 years of volunteer time spent away from his family, in the service of strangers.

And this… is his story.

We start part one of this conversation with Dean’s origin story—how he grew up as a young climber surrounded by legends like John Long, John Bachar, Bob Gaines, and Lynn Hill. We go into two very close calls that nearly cost Dean his life, and explore how we—not just as climbers, but as humans—can play safer in the mountains. We also discuss how we can aid search and rescue find our bodies… alive or dead… in the event that we go missing in the backcountry.

This is a deep—and at times heavy—conversation, with some stories and visuals that may not be appropriate for children. Please proceed with that in mind.

You’ll hear both Dean and I reference a book throughout this conversation: The Shortest Straw – Search and Rescue in the High Sierra. This is Dean Rosnau’s educational memoir of some of the cases he’s been involved in over his 35 years in SAR. While we reference a few of these stories here, this episode does no justice to reading the full thing. I highly encourage you to pick up a copy to truly understand the scope of Dean’s experience in the mountains. 

You can find a link to the book HERE

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Resources

Dean's Book "The Shortest Straw: Search and Rescue in the High Sierra"

Dean's Website

Dean's IG

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 3:20 An Early Exposure to Death
• 21:41 Early Years as a Climber
• 30:29 Exposure to Climbing Legends
• 41:02 EBGB's Close Call
• 49:23 Lost Arrow Spire Epic
• 1:08:45 A Path Laid Out Before You
• 1:30:40 Abusing S.A.R.
• 1:35:51 The Beginning of the End

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:24
Kyle
Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where I capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes from around the world.

00:00:09:26 - 00:00:14:17
Kyle
Come join me as I dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00:00:16:06 - 00:00:21:24
Kyle
Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast. I'm your host, Kyle Brockman. As we progress as

00:00:21:24 - 00:00:47:08
Kyle
climbers and inevitably turn our gaze towards higher peaks and more remote objectives, a common lesson begins to emerge. The mountains are a dangerous place to play, but early on, this remains a lesson heard and not truly learned. Inevitably, though, with enough time spent in remote places, something is bound to happen either directly to us or to someone close enough to hear this truth into our souls.

00:00:47:10 - 00:01:10:15
Kyle
From an early age, Dene Ross now found himself brushing shoulders with death, learning not only that the mountains are a dangerous place, but that life itself is dangerous and that our actions can carry severe consequences. Looking at your friend's body in a casket and watching a fallen climber bleed out at the base of Bridal Veil Falls, all before the age of ten, would shape anyone.

00:01:10:18 - 00:01:39:24
Kyle
What Dean didn't know at the time was that the world was preparing him for some of the most challenging, demanding, and ultimately rewarding years of his life. Those spent on the search and rescue team for the Eastern Sierra Dean has since accumulated over 35 years of search and rescue work. He's recovered 66 bodies and completed over 800 individual rescue missions involving more than two and a half years of volunteer time spent away from his family in the service of strangers.

00:01:39:27 - 00:02:02:07
Kyle
And this is his story. We start part one of this conversation with Dean's origin story, how he grew up as a young climber surrounded by legends like John Long, John Becker, Bob Gaines, and Lynn Hill. We go into two very close calls that nearly cost Dean his life and explore how we not just as climbers but as humans, can all play safer in the mountains.

00:02:02:09 - 00:02:22:17
Kyle
We also discuss how we can aid search and rescue in finding our bodies alive or dead. In the event that we go missing in the backcountry. This is a deep and at times heavy conversation with some stories and visuals that may not be appropriate for children. Please proceed with that in mind. You'll hear Dean and I reference a book throughout this conversation.

00:02:22:19 - 00:02:44:23
Kyle
The Shortest Straw Search and Rescue in the High Sierra. This is Dean Ray's now as educational memoir of some of the cases he's been involved in over the last 35 years in search and rescue. While we do reference a few of these stories here in this episode, it does no justice to reading the full thing, so I highly encourage you to pick up a copy to truly understand the scope of Dean's experience in the mountains.

00:02:44:25 - 00:03:10:06
Kyle
You can find a link to the book in our show notes. I'm going to end this intro with a quote climb if you will, but remember that courage and strength are not without prudence, and that a momentary negligence may destroy the happiness of a lifetime. Do nothing in haste. Look well to each step, and from the beginning think what may be the end.

00:03:20:18 - 00:03:45:27
Kyle
It's been 34 years. You've had 66 human body recoveries. Over 800 search and rescue mission days and a cumulative two and a half years away from your family. All spent with volunteered time for the benefit of strangers. Why do

00:03:45:27 - 00:04:16:14
Dean Rosnau
Well, I suppose that goes way back in my life, but, you know, it was compelled by it just wanting to make a difference. You know, it started with a little girl that disappeared in Joshua Tree in 1984. A little three and a half year old girl named Laura Bradbury. And, you know, when when a family loses a child like that, it hurt, you know, it hurt.

00:04:16:14 - 00:04:41:21
Dean Rosnau
And so I just felt like I needed to do something. And I knew that area really well. And, I just went down and volunteered, and. And I got hooked, and, I kept doing it because, to be honest, Kyle, it it felt like a calling on my life. You know? I felt like God had gifted me with with certain skill sets in the backcountry.

00:04:41:21 - 00:05:05:07
Dean Rosnau
Started with climbing in 1975 and as a 13 year old and, you know, I like to say, I've learned how to suffer. Well, you know, and, and a lot of search and rescue is just that because it, you know, it's rare that events happen when the weather's nice. It seems at least in my career, that the weather was a cause of a lot of the incidents that I responded to.

00:05:05:07 - 00:05:12:15
Dean Rosnau
So, Yeah, I just think you, you know, you want to.

00:05:12:15 - 00:05:27:23
Dean Rosnau
It was an answer to a calling for me, and and you want to help people, you know, you you have these skill sets, and it's hard to say no. So I just made a commitment that when the sheriff called, I wouldn't say no.

00:05:31:00 - 00:06:01:00
Dean Rosnau
Well, yeah. And, you know, I've had experiences over the course of both my climbing career and my SAR career where where I was, you know, nearly a victim myself. And so I know that feeling of being desperate and, you know, being on the edge and, and, really needing help. And so with that mindset that was, that was kind of a driver in the, you know, a motivator, I guess, to get out there and, and just try and make a difference.

00:06:08:12 - 00:06:17:25
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:06:20:07 - 00:06:25:22
Dean Rosnau
Sure. Yeah. Well, I started climbing in Joshua Tree in 1975 as a 13 year old.

00:06:25:22 - 00:06:41:16
Dean Rosnau
And, and so, you know, over the years, all through high school, climbing through high school, I, you know, I really got to learn the park. Well, we called it the monument back then. Yeah. It was it wasn't a national park back then.

00:06:41:16 - 00:07:04:02
Dean Rosnau
It was Joshua Tree National Monument. So, anyway, Laura Bradbury's family came out and were camping at Indian Cove Campground, and, she and her brother or little brother went. And Laura was three and a half, but she and her little brother, who was slightly older, went to use one of the, you know, the pit toilets there in the campground.

00:07:04:05 - 00:07:29:04
Dean Rosnau
And, Her brother stepped in and, you know, did his thing. And when he came out, Laura was gone. And so that was the start. And, you know, I was living nearby. I was living in the San Bernardino Mountains, so fairly close by, and, and, I heard the news and, I just felt like I felt really compelled to to go down there and make some effort.

00:07:29:04 - 00:07:51:17
Dean Rosnau
So I went to the SAR base that the sheriff had set up there at the Indian Cove Campground and said, hey, you know, put me to work. I know this area well. I've climbed here now for at that point nine years. And, and so I just dove in and, you know, the search went on initially for a couple of weeks and, hit a lot of dead ends.

00:07:51:17 - 00:08:18:05
Dean Rosnau
But, I just stayed committed to it, and I live close by. So over the course of the next two and a half years, I spent 162 days out there on my own, just to searching for any kind of evidence. And after two and a half years, some skeletal remains were found that ultimately were proved to be Laura's, you know, DNA testing and stuff was a lot of that was nonexistent back then.

00:08:18:05 - 00:08:45:26
Dean Rosnau
So, but eventually, those remains were proved to be Laura's and, but, you know, all those days out there just just lit a fire in me and, even though I came up empty, you know, as far as my efforts, I knew that I was I was doing something significant for that family, you know, just just helping because, I mean, I'm a father now and a grandfather.

00:08:45:26 - 00:09:09:23
Dean Rosnau
And, I wasn't then, but I was raised in a strong family, and I could only imagine what that that couple, you know, and seeing them, seeing them out there, Laura's parents, with the anguish on their face was. It was a hard thing.

00:09:09:26 - 00:09:38:11
Dean Rosnau
Well, I don't know if it was the first time. I mean, there were certainly instances throughout my childhood where I, I witnessed tragedy, you know, and some of it stuff that kids shouldn't really have to see. Witnessed a few deaths up in Yosemite and, Oh, I think the first one, a guy took a fall about an 80 footer at the base of Bridal Veil Falls.

00:09:38:11 - 00:10:02:06
Dean Rosnau
I think I was maybe ten years old. I wasn't, but, I was there with a church youth group, and we had hiked up to the base of the falls and, you know, weaving around the boulders there and came around the corner. And there was a guy trying to help this absolutely shattered body that was laying in about eight inches of water and just blood everywhere.

00:10:02:06 - 00:10:21:12
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, the guy that was trying to render assistance, you know, to go get, you know, just scream, go get help. And so me and another friend that was with me, we just took off running and ran all the way down the trail to the parking lot and alerted the Rangers and, unfortunately, that subject did not survive.

00:10:21:12 - 00:10:44:18
Dean Rosnau
But but yeah, I, you know, I think empathy growing up in the, in that in a Christian home, you know, we, we were raised that way that when someone was hurting you, you know, you did what you could to help out. Yeah.

00:10:44:21 - 00:11:12:16
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. The earliest was in the sixth grade. And I mentioned this in my book that, a young friend, I think sixth grade must be, what, about ten years old, maybe 11 years old. And, he was cleaning his bicycle in the garage. In his garage with some gasoline. And there was a water heater in the garage, and, the, you know, the fumes lit from the pilot light and, lit him on fire.

00:11:12:16 - 00:11:33:05
Dean Rosnau
And he took off running out of the garage. And, you know, a neighbor saw him running on fire, you know, across yards and stuff and screaming. And at any rate, he, he ended up in the hospital and had sucked in a bunch of flames into his lungs and ended up with really bad double pneumonia and scarred lungs, and died in the hospital about five days later.

00:11:33:05 - 00:11:55:26
Dean Rosnau
And then my mom took me to his funeral. So, you know, seeing your sixth grade classmate in a casket is, It's a real eye opener. You know?

00:11:55:28 - 00:12:13:25
Dean Rosnau
You know, and I mentioned this in my book as well. I, I was, I pushed the boundaries when I was a kid, you know, I was the black sheep of the family. So I was always going against the grain, and and life was different back then. I mean, you know, kind of the rule was we just had to be home on the street.

00:12:13:25 - 00:12:35:26
Dean Rosnau
Lights came on and I'd end up miles and miles away from home. And, you know, my parents never knew, but but seeing that young friend's death after experiencing that, it really made me it gave me thought even at that young age, you know, 11 years old, that, there's consequences to, to some of the things that we do.

00:12:35:26 - 00:13:03:17
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, whether it tempered my, zeal for adventure, maybe for a short time, but it definitely gave me pause, you know? And it was it was traumatic. I mean, it was traumatic enough that now, at 63 years old, I can remember every piece of that, including that funeral like it was yesterday. So.

00:13:03:17 - 00:13:09:00
Kyle
resonate with you in terms of being someone that kind of pushes the boundaries. I like to say I.

00:13:13:24 - 00:13:17:05
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:13:17:05 - 00:13:23:21
Kyle
with the law, with your body. Like it's a dangerous pursuit because the edge is very volatile.

00:13:23:24 - 00:13:41:05
Kyle
Would you say that that particular situation, like, kind of reeled you in just a little bit to the point where, like, okay, I don't need to like, put both toes or both, you know, all ten toes over the edge. I can, I can, like look over the edge a little bit, you know, if you, if you

00:13:42:08 - 00:14:10:01
Dean Rosnau
I do, and again, the best way to answer that is I can definitely recall it tempering me for a time. But then, you know, and this is probably more of a boy thing than, a girl thing, but, you know, the the more you could probably relate to this, the more you get away with, you know, as you're pushing boundaries, you get away with this, and then it just kind of motivates you to, you know, hey, we I'll.

00:14:10:04 - 00:15:00:12
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And, and so at some juncture fairly early on, probably, you know, I started climbing like a couple of years later and that, you know, my first climb just absolutely lit a fire under me that was had to be stoked, you know? So I it was like, just throw caution to the wind and, you know, so all of a sudden, that tragedy from the few years before gets pushed into the back of your mind and until the next one comes along and unfortunately, I've, I've seen a lot.

00:15:00:14 - 00:15:24:28
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So I've always been a journal or and actually started in junior high school. And so I've kept a climbing journal all my, throughout these 50 years of climbing and and then writing reports, you know, for the sheriff's office for every submission. So, going back and doing the research of my, my database to produce the, the narrative for my book.

00:15:28:04 - 00:15:34:04
Dean Rosnau
You know, the, the, the evidence was there that,

00:15:34:04 - 00:15:50:15
Kyle
In terms of being able to you know we talk about the edge, I think that sometimes we can step all the way over. And I would say, you know there are two, two ways we come back over that edge alive. And I'd say one of them is luck. And then the other one I'd say is a bit more spiritual.

00:15:50:15 - 00:16:18:03
Kyle
And we have like I speak for myself, I have, a late grandfather, my mom's dad. He died from colon cancer when I was about six months old. And, he really loved hummingbirds. And I'm, like one of 14 grandchildren now, and I'm the only one he ever met. And so, like, I attribute a lot of my survival through my countless situations with, you know, surviving death or cheating death coming back across that

00:16:18:24 - 00:16:20:05
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:16:20:05 - 00:16:27:03
Kyle
sure. Luck comes from being prepared. So there's that whole avenue of it. But I also attribute it to, you know, something greater kind of looking out

00:16:27:20 - 00:16:28:24
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:16:28:24 - 00:16:36:24
Kyle
yourself. Kind of. Where do you stand on, you know, being able to come back across that veil 23 times and not pay the price.

00:16:37:17 - 00:17:14:12
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. And most of those 23 times that I identified through my journaling, happened during climbing situations. Not so much. Sara situations. My closest call was with a SA situation, but, you know, I recount in the book a couple of climbing instances of, really close calls and, you know, when I, when I wrote the book, I really wanted to show in those early chapters where I share some of these things from that, you know, that occurred in my childhood that, you know, Providence, I believe, played a huge role.

00:17:14:12 - 00:17:46:22
Dean Rosnau
Providence is, is a term in relation to, God's will for our lives, you know? And, you know, people always ask, well, why do some die young and some lived to 100, you know, I mean, we we all have our our days are all numbered. And, you know, certainly we can do things that, you know, push the limit and, and, maybe shortened our experience, shall we say, on this globe.

00:17:46:22 - 00:18:33:15
Dean Rosnau
But, no, I, I just really feel that, and I, I believe I give good evidence in the book that, you know, gods, guardian angels have been with me since early as I can remember. And, and I always remember to, to thank him for that, you know, you know, you come out of these near-death experiences and, I just have to say, Lord, thank you for, you know, giving me another chance and and with even with every one of those experiences, it it kind of shaped you, you know, you start, you start looking at your, your willingness to take risk.

00:18:33:19 - 00:19:08:03
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, I was just talking with a friend last night about this. How what when my when my first child was born. 30. It'll be 34 years ago this Saturday. It it just really made me consider more the, the level of risk that I was willing to take and, and just be more cognizant of it, you know, and I think with every I think with every close call, it hones us, you know, hopefully we get wiser, you know.

00:19:08:09 - 00:19:29:13
Dean Rosnau
So I know, I know, I'm a little bit wiser at 63 than I was at 13, a little bit.

00:19:29:15 - 00:19:52:27
Dean Rosnau
Oh, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, that grace is a great word. You know, someone asked me recently. How do I explain grace? You know, which I believe comes from God, and and I explain it this way. It's like being up on a wall, you know, on a long climb, multiple pitch, hot day, and the sun's just, you know, beaten down on your back.

00:19:52:27 - 00:20:21:05
Dean Rosnau
You're looking up into the sun. You're just getting roasted. You know, you going through lots of chalk and then a cloud comes over and, and and all of a sudden you're in the shade and and it's just this instant relief, right? I know you've been there and and that's the way God's grace is, you know. And when we're I feel like when we're not walking in his grace that that's like that clouds like his hand, you know, shielding us.

00:20:21:05 - 00:20:43:13
Dean Rosnau
And then when we're not walking in his grace or not in alignment with him at hand, just kind of gets pulled back a little bit, you know, just so we feel the heat a little bit, you know what I mean? And, so, yeah, I just, I just count the things that I've, the close calls that I've had to God's guardian angels going with me every day.

00:20:43:15 - 00:21:03:17
Dean Rosnau
And I still need them every.

00:21:03:19 - 00:21:16:20
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:21:16:22 - 00:21:41:00
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. There you go. You know, it's that, old adage, you know, there's, no atheists in foxholes. I mean, you know, when the stuff's hitting the fan, it's like I'm grateful for a higher power. You know, I've climbed myself into plenty of trouble, and, I'm really glad for that. Grace.

00:21:41:03 - 00:21:45:13
Kyle
Okay, I want to circle back on, your kind of progression as as a climber.

00:21:45:18 - 00:21:46:20
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:21:46:20 - 00:21:58:23
Kyle
And, you know, maybe just tell the story real quick. You know, it seemed like you were parents were very much at odds with your passion for or your interest for climbing, and you kind of sought out education on your own. So.

00:21:58:23 - 00:21:59:13
Kyle
Yeah, tell us that

00:22:00:15 - 00:22:24:24
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So, you know, I was born actually, in Chicago and then lived some most of my early life outside of, well, in rural Missouri, outside of Saint Louis. But my family moved to California in 1969. And, we started going to Yosemite every summer. And, you know, I'd see those climbers up on those walls, and, and I just that just fueled a fire in me.

00:22:24:24 - 00:22:44:24
Dean Rosnau
Right. And, this house we were living in, the first house in California. This would have been 1969. There was a family that lived next door, and their son was a climber. And while we were living there, I think it was maybe a year after we'd moved into that house. He was up in Yosemite, climbing. He and two partners.

00:22:44:24 - 00:23:05:24
Dean Rosnau
They were doing a first ascent, of a route on the Glacier Point apron, and I think they were up at the anchor. They had just put in the anchor at the top of the third pitch, and the anchor failed, and all three of them went to the ground. And so this family lost a son. And, you know, here we were going to Yosemite, and my parents heard this story.

00:23:05:24 - 00:23:24:29
Dean Rosnau
You know, this climber right next door, this young man died. And, ironically, you know, years later, I did get to climb that route. It was finished by another party, and it was kind of sardonic. It was named Anchors Away. Yeah. But, anyway, my, my,

00:23:24:29 - 00:23:33:18
Dean Rosnau
when I, when I announced to my parents at 13 years old that I wanted to start climbing, they were like, no, that's not going to happen.

00:23:33:18 - 00:24:02:24
Dean Rosnau
So, you know, I did whatever he normal pastors kid for black sheep vinegar, you know, I lied and went and took a climbing class and, started climbing behind their backs. I, I climbed, all four years of high school without my parents knowing about it. It was not easy. Especially climbing in Josh with the gobies all over your hands.

00:24:02:24 - 00:24:27:08
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, I would chalk it up to skateboard accidents and all that kind of stuff, but, yeah, just doing some crazy stuff, too, because, you know, I was only 13, so I had to bum rides and, I used to hop freight trains to. There was a bouldering area, east of where I was living. It was about 30 miles east, called Mount Rubato on Riverside.

00:24:27:11 - 00:24:43:11
Dean Rosnau
And, and so to get out there, I'd sometimes hop either hitchhike or out freight trains. So, you know, the things I was doing that my parents knew nothing about, you know.

00:24:43:13 - 00:25:05:24
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Yeah, it was some crazy times, you know, pushing the envelope. But, so that's how it all started. And I took a class and, it was out in Joshua Tree at, Coil Springs picnic area, their trash can rock, we called it. And and I had a pair of, tennis shoes. I couldn't afford any climbing gear, so.

00:25:05:24 - 00:25:28:13
Dean Rosnau
Well, the only thing I had was a swami belt. I managed to scrape up enough money to buy a swami belt. Yeah, it was just a piece of, two inch flat webbing, you know, kind of like what we, you know, runner material, but two inches wide and, about 20ft long, and you'd just wrap it around your waist, you know, right about your belly button level.

00:25:28:13 - 00:25:47:19
Dean Rosnau
And as many times as it would go around and then tie a water knot in it and, and then tie the rope right into that. Oh no, no, no leg loops. So yeah, you know, that's one of the reasons we considered it a no fall sport back then, because your ribs would take the brunt of, you know, get these big welts.

00:25:47:19 - 00:26:08:03
Dean Rosnau
But, anyway, I took a pair of these tennis shoes that I bought at Kmart, or actually, my parents bought them for me, but I. I went out in my dad's garage and I took a rasp and I filed off the the tread of the tennis shoes. And those were my first climbing shoes. And and the chalk bag was, old crown.

00:26:08:09 - 00:26:32:04
Dean Rosnau
You know, the purple bags at Crown Royal Whiskey comes in that were. That was a chalk bag. So anyway, I took that class and that lit a fire. And, you know, I was the only kid in the class, and the rest were were mostly middle aged folks. And I think it was about 11 of us. And, and I just, you know, the teacher, the instructor who was more of a mountaineer than a rock climber.

00:26:32:06 - 00:26:53:14
Dean Rosnau
I mean, I was out climbing him. He couldn't do some of the routes that, you know, top ropes that he'd set up. And then most of the adults were there just to play around. They weren't really, you know, that psyched on the sport like I was. And so the instructors saw my enthusiasm and, he ended up introducing me to, to climbing friends of his that were out there in the park.

00:26:53:14 - 00:27:15:08
Dean Rosnau
And, and so, the next day, I, I these guys were old. They were like 19. I considered them really old guys, but, they said, they kind of looked me over and I was this tiny little kid. I was the run to the litter in my family. And. And they said, kid, if you're going to climb with us, you got to do your share of the leading.

00:27:15:08 - 00:27:39:01
Dean Rosnau
And they handed me a sling with a bunch of hexes and nuts on it. And, you know, this was 1975 years before camps were available. And and they walked me up to the base of a route called Double Cross out in Josh and, you know, I didn't know any better. You know, it was it was, I think it's still rated five eight,

00:27:40:28 - 00:28:01:07
Dean Rosnau
Is that what it is? Yeah. Well, I mean, I know a lot of people have died on it, you know, over the course of my career there. But, at any rate, I, I scratched my way up that thing and, you know, slamming it. I'd never place gear before. I just kind of learn by doing and and, by the grace of God got up the thing with no falls.

00:28:01:07 - 00:28:25:16
Dean Rosnau
But I got to the top of that thing, I couldn't speak. I was cottonmouth shaking and with the biggest smile on my face. And these guys, you know, we're just completely blown away that I'd scratch my way up that thing. And, and then the next day we went out and did, walk on the wild side out on Saddle Rocks.

00:28:25:21 - 00:28:48:09
Dean Rosnau
And so those were my first two leads in, in K-Mart tennis shoes. Yeah. So I remember being really afraid of falling on the swami belt, too. So I think that's one of the things that made me scratch even harder. And I got. So I'm on double cross. I just got so stinkin torn up. My hands were just shredded.

00:28:48:11 - 00:28:58:27
Dean Rosnau
But again, I got to the top and in spite of being cotton, cottonmouth and completely trashed, I was as happy as could be.

00:28:59:00 - 00:29:13:10
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, and that was it, man. And it was all about. It was game on from there on and and, you know, Joshua Tree and Taquito in the summer and then, you know, gravitating up to camp for, for the, for the summer season.

00:29:13:10 - 00:29:41:02
Kyle
Let's be real for a second. The current blueprint for a successful climbing podcast is simple. Interview the best climbers in the world. Big names mean big followings. Lots of SEO power and a built in audience that helps boost every episode. But this show, this show has never been about that. From the beginning, I have made it my mission to bring you stories from the climbing majority, the climbers who don't live in the limelight, the ones who avoid interviews, quietly put up roots and give back in ways that are rarely recognized.

00:29:41:06 - 00:29:57:25
Kyle
And while that's what makes this show special, it also means we have an uphill battle when it comes to growth. And that is where you come in. If you're psyched about the show, if you've been inspired, entertained, or fired up about an episode. Word of mouth is the single most important way you can help the show. Share an episode with a friend.

00:29:57:29 - 00:30:15:13
Kyle
Play one on a group road trip. Post about the show on social media. Jump onto Reddit threads and Mountain Project forums and share with people what you've been listening to. Be sure to tag the show, tag your favorite guests, and spread the word. And if you want to help even more, I'm currently sending posters to climbing gyms around the country.

00:30:15:17 - 00:30:28:29
Kyle
If you'd like to support one in your climbing gym, be sure to reach out. Email me at the Climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com and I will be sure to send you one. Let's band together and show the climbing community that the climbing majority has a voice.

00:30:29:01 - 00:30:38:15
Kyle
And so I mean Joshua Tree tuck camp for these are iconic areas and places that the stone masters were climbing in. People like Bob Gaines.

00:30:38:24 - 00:30:48:08
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:30:48:10 - 00:31:14:18
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So, you know, it was you got to understand, it was a totally different world back then. Climbing was. And, you know, now it's just so mainstream with gyms and, you know. Yeah. Everyone and their uncle climbing now. But back then we were we were kind of like outcasts. I mean, I went to a high school of almost 4000 kids, and I didn't know one other climber in that entire school.

00:31:14:20 - 00:31:34:26
Dean Rosnau
And when I told people that I climb rocks, they'd look at me like, what's wrong with why would you do that? You know, so it was it was, I mean, we were kind of a a rare breed, I guess you call it. It was. It was just different. And so when you'd go out to the monument, you'd always see the same people, you know?

00:31:34:29 - 00:32:14:20
Dean Rosnau
I mean, everyone was there in the season, moved from Josh to Takis and suicide, and then up to the valley or the East Side to follow me. And so you'd always see the same folks. And so, yeah, that was right in the height of the, the Stone Masters. And, you know, of course, I was just this little kid and they were they were like gods, you know, and I remember, I remember the first time seeing, John Long, he and Lynn Hill were dating at the time, and, and, you know, John John was just wicked fit back then, and, and, Lynn was just this tiny little thing, and she was riding on

00:32:14:20 - 00:32:34:13
Dean Rosnau
his shoulder. They were cruising around doing some bouldering. It was, you know, just about dark. And we were scratching around doing some bouldering and but, you know, you'd see everyone, I mean, there everyone would camp at Hidden Valley and, you know, be setting up rope and in the evening and, you know, daring each other to do this and that.

00:32:34:14 - 00:33:09:00
Dean Rosnau
The other thing, and it was just, crazy time. But, one guy that I definitely gravitated to, because he was a fellow Christian, he was a guy out of San Diego named Tobin Sorenson. And, I just really admired him. He was, he was a really bold climber and, really bold and and, in his faith, which was something that impressed me, you know, and it was it was just, impressed me that someone would be that bold in that environment.

00:33:09:00 - 00:33:29:25
Dean Rosnau
And this isn't to disparage the Stone Masters or that whole crew back then, but, you know, there was a lot of weed getting smoked and a lot of beer consumed and and other consumables, you know, so, you know, it was that kind of environment. But, you know, for me, Tobin was kind of a shining light. And then, you know, there were others.

00:33:29:28 - 00:33:53:07
Dean Rosnau
You know, I remember first meeting Bakker and and, John was just a he was just doing things that every day that were so mesmerizing. And so we would just start following him around, you know, just to, just to watch and, you know, I couldn't afford a camera, let alone the film, you know, or the developing.

00:33:53:07 - 00:34:12:29
Dean Rosnau
You had to develop your film back then and, and so it's unfortunate that, you know, a lot of these things I don't have pictures of, but some of the stuff you'd see and, and, you know, now they're just tales we tell around the fire, you know. Were you there that day? Oh, yeah, I remember you were there. You know, it's very fun.

00:34:12:29 - 00:34:20:29
Dean Rosnau
But, those were the days, man.

00:34:21:01 - 00:34:41:09
Dean Rosnau
Well, gosh, I have a lot. And it's interesting that, you know, over the whole course of my climbing career, I mean, it seemed like John John's and my path continued to cross, and ultimately he he moved to the east side. In fact, when his home burned down in the park and us, he had asked me to, to rebuild his home.

00:34:41:09 - 00:34:53:14
Dean Rosnau
And then, you know, it got into the big scramble with the Park Service and stuff, and, and, it was unfortunate, but, Yeah, just lots of memories of John.

00:34:53:14 - 00:35:14:23
Dean Rosnau
I think my favorite climbing memory of John was, I was up at Todd Keith's, and, it was the first time I finally got up the the guts to lead the vampire, which is like, the most bold line on target, you know, just goes up this blank, beautiful shield.

00:35:14:23 - 00:35:37:11
Dean Rosnau
It's very Yosemite esk and, and I, I and John was kind of lurking and, you know, I'd seen him down and at Humber Park down below, and we were gearing up and so he was around and, and anyway, my partner and I started up the route and, I was up on the, the baloney slicer pitch, which is like the last pitch.

00:35:37:13 - 00:35:58:23
Dean Rosnau
And, I dropped a piece. I dropped a stopper, and, you know, it went to the ground. And anyway, I, you know, we I get up the pitch and then belay my partner up, and we're hanging up, hanging out on the summit, and all of a sudden backer comes soloing up, you know, in a pair of shorts and and no shirt.

00:35:58:24 - 00:36:15:09
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, we were we were real tall tubes, socks back then, you know, it was just kind of the thing. And he comes cruising up and he reaches back into the chalk bag and pulls out my stopper, and he hands it to me and he says, hey, Dean quit littering.

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:18:11
Dean Rosnau
So that was that was kind of cool.

00:36:18:11 - 00:36:36:05
Dean Rosnau
But yeah, I had some really great interactions with John, up in mammoth. Once he had his son tires. And I, I really saw a beautiful change that happened in John, when Tyrus was born. And that was real special because I had become a father shortly before that.

00:36:36:05 - 00:36:52:26
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, he he was kind of giving me grief one day in a coffee shop about, you know, you got kids now you're all tied down and and I said, yeah, but John, there's it's just a new it's a whole new way of life, you know, and it's magic and it's it's really special. And he was kind of like, you know, whatever.

00:36:52:29 - 00:37:25:21
Dean Rosnau
And then not too long thereafter, he was the father of Tyrus, and, and I saw him again in town and he said, he said, you know, Dean, I get it now. I get what you were talking about. And there's he's got little tire, a little baby tires in his arm. It was pretty cool. A very special memory for me.

00:37:25:23 - 00:37:47:03
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, it was, that was a hard loss. You know that one? That one was hard.

00:37:47:06 - 00:38:24:12
Dean Rosnau
Well, there's been a lot of speculation about that, and and, you know, I, I don't I don't really have evidence to say one way or another. I think. I think John was just so good at what he did, you know. And I love the way I loved his approach to things that, it was it was there was purity in it, you know, I remember back, you know, it's just it was just so disappointing when back in the 80s when this whole trad versus rad thing, you know, all the European, you know, bolting on, repel stuff came in and, and there was a lot of tension there.

00:38:24:12 - 00:38:51:12
Dean Rosnau
And, and that was unfortunate because it, it hurt a lot of friendships and stuff. But and so I, you know, John was just such an interesting guy and, and just so committed in his, in his beliefs and his style, you know, and I respected that and still respected a lot. And, you know, that's kind of more the way I lean as opposed to the other way.

00:38:51:14 - 00:39:12:12
Dean Rosnau
So I saw a lot of, a lot of hard paths that that John walked through. And it was unfortunate and, you know, hurt a lot of long term friendships and stuff. But I just had to admire the guy's commitment to excellence. I think that's the thing that when I think of John, I think, man, that that guy was just committed to excellence.

00:39:12:12 - 00:39:46:15
Dean Rosnau
And he was he was just so smooth. And, you know, the the route that he ended up losing his life on, you know, was obviously well within his skill set. And who knows how many times he'd actually climb the route. So, you know, things happen, unfortunately. And, that that day didn't end well for him or the rest of us.

00:39:46:18 - 00:40:14:16
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, I've done my share. And, you know, I always found it fun, and but I was never doing anything like what he was doing. I think the. Well, I had a couple big days, I, I did three laps on the regular route on Fairview up and into me. And that was kind of fun. Passing, passing the same party, you know, a couple of times.

00:40:14:18 - 00:40:31:06
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, yeah, it was kind of fun. And then, on my 50th birthday, I saw the the third pillar of Dana, which is a. Yeah, it's a route I'd done a few times before, so I knew the route well and, and, yeah, I actually had a partner lined up. And then at the last minute, he kind of bailed.

00:40:31:06 - 00:40:52:12
Dean Rosnau
And I really wanted to climb on my birthday. You know, it was kind of my thing I always climbed on my birthday, so, I just decided to go in and do it, and I climbed the route and, like, 40 minutes. That was fun. And I, you know, I just I reveled in it. It was never, And I had the whole route to myself, too.

00:40:52:12 - 00:41:01:16
Dean Rosnau
That was kind of nice. So, anyway, but I didn't make so I didn't make soloing a real big habit.

00:41:02:06 - 00:41:17:28
Kyle
Only if you can, tell me about, you know, kind of rounding you out more as a young self, as kind of a climber. You have a story about EBS and Jay Tree telling me that quick story.

00:41:18:05 - 00:41:48:15
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So that was a real test piece. That route got put up, I think it was in 77. And, man, the word. The word went around the campground like a wildfire. You know, that that route had gotten established. And, and I remember the first time I'd heard about it, we walked over to it the next morning, and I remember standing there at the base, and I was only I was only, 15 years old.

00:41:48:17 - 00:42:10:06
Dean Rosnau
And I looked up at that thing and it just gave me shivers. It was just has this really amazing position and and you could see the tiny little button head bolts, you know, just barely showing on that massive face. And, and, it just freaked me out. And, and so it, it became something that, you know, I thought, well, I'll work up to that.

00:42:10:09 - 00:42:28:02
Dean Rosnau
And so a number of times, shortly after it was put up, I would go up to the base and just starting the route, you have to do this mantle. That thing's on a like this huge block. So you got a mantle up onto this pedestal kind of a thing, and it's a little awkward. It's kind of right in your face.

00:42:28:04 - 00:42:58:06
Dean Rosnau
And so even that first move is kind of challenging. And then you do this kind of dosey doe left kind of shimmy left to another clip, and then you turn this kind of on a thing and then you're out onto the main phase. And, I, I never, I went up a couple of times, clipped that first bolt and started doing the shimmy and then and then chickened out, you know, and, and then I finally I finally got a pair of, EBS I finally upgraded.

00:42:58:06 - 00:43:23:02
Dean Rosnau
And up to that point, I had been buying, like, second hand, third hand shredded climbing shoes from people in the Valley, you know, that were trying to get money to go back to England or wherever they were from. And so I finally, I think, I think a new pair of EBS back then was about $45. And, and I got a brand new pair of EBS and I was

00:43:23:02 - 00:43:30:00
Dean Rosnau
I was 17 at the time, so this would have been 1979.

00:43:30:03 - 00:43:49:17
Dean Rosnau
So I, I went up to the route and I was super psyched and motivated and felt like these new shoes were going to do it for me. And so I just used a runner, you know, that was tied with a water, not just a one inch piece of webbing for a rack. And I slapped a couple of quick drives.

00:43:49:17 - 00:44:10:14
Dean Rosnau
We call them quick runners back then and, I had like, you know, however many runners it was going to take to, to do the route. And, I made this, made the mantle and did the shimmy left and turned the corner and then got up on the main face, clipped the third bolt. And then, you know, things just run out.

00:44:10:14 - 00:44:37:06
Dean Rosnau
I think there's only I think there's only five, five bolts on the whole route. So it's, it's a, it's a run out deal and super steep and thin and smeary and edgy and, and I'm way out above my third clip, and all of a sudden I hear this clinking and the the water knot had untied in my sling, and all of my gear went to the base.

00:44:37:09 - 00:44:59:20
Dean Rosnau
And the the only other beater I had was the one on my harness holding my stitch plate. I had a harness by the. I wasn't in a swami, but, I was just. I was just freaked. And my partner was freaked, and he's like, you should just jump. And, I mean, it would have been a it would have been a whip down off the block and swinging down under the overhang below.

00:44:59:20 - 00:45:28:18
Dean Rosnau
And I was just terrified and, you know, resetting my feet and chalking and I don't know how much time elapsed, but finally I just decided to climb. I felt like that was that was my option was just declined. So I climbed that thing to the top, you know, in full ground fall mode. And, and I collapsed on the summit and I couldn't even speak for about 15 minutes.

00:45:28:18 - 00:45:36:21
Dean Rosnau
I was just so thrashed. And my partner, my partner was so intimidated, he he just flat out refused to follow the route.

00:45:36:21 - 00:45:54:08
Dean Rosnau
He was he was just a wreck. Yeah. And he didn't climb much after that. He kind of gave up climbing. And I think that was one of the reason. I mean, it just really shook him up that he thought he was going to see me, you know, just fully crater.

00:45:54:11 - 00:46:09:08
Dean Rosnau
So yeah, that.

00:46:09:11 - 00:46:19:12
Dean Rosnau
Well, I didn't do that by choice. I mean, I was in full survival mode, you know? I mean, if.

00:46:19:14 - 00:46:26:11
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:46:26:14 - 00:46:50:19
Dean Rosnau
Well, I think I thought that well, after the fact, you know, it took a while for my frayed nerves to calm down. You know, I realized then that I had I had come really close. And so that was one of my 23, close calls. But, yeah, it was, it was, I guess a kind of a watershed moment.

00:46:50:19 - 00:47:20:29
Dean Rosnau
You know, at that point, I'd been climbing for four years and, you know, the between the shoes, the brand new EBS, you know, which I thought were just like the bomb compared to everything I'd been climbing. And up to that point, you know, between the shoes and, and my willingness to just push through and, and steel the mind to stay in the game, you know, stay really focused.

00:47:21:01 - 00:47:26:00
Dean Rosnau
It was it was a great experience in hindsight. It was a great experience.

00:47:26:00 - 00:47:36:21
Kyle
you. And I think it's like a skill set that you prove to yourself that you had. That you're able to stay focused and in control, in intense and life threatening situations. I

00:47:37:04 - 00:47:38:01
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

00:47:38:01 - 00:47:43:28
Kyle
skill set. And I would imagine one that you used, quite a lot after the fact.

00:47:44:11 - 00:48:13:11
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. And I I've always said that, you know, incidents like that, these close calls and stuff, they're I consider them, you know, like storms in our lives and, and you weather those storms and it it makes you stronger for the next one, you know, so you can when, when you're facing the next storm, you can kind of think back and go, well, you know, I, I've pushed it hard before, you know, it was just I know what it takes.

00:48:13:14 - 00:48:41:08
Dean Rosnau
You raise that mental game and you just stay in the fight. So, yeah, I think every one of those you, in spite of the close call, you come away better for it in that you've gleaned some really valuable information about yourself. You know, not so much. Maybe the physical, but what's up here? You know, between the years, like, really stealing your your mind for desperate situations.

00:48:41:08 - 00:48:46:28
Dean Rosnau
And, you know, in my case, in my case, that really paid dividends with once my SAR career started.

00:48:46:28 - 00:49:05:20
Kyle
I send professional recording equipment to every single guest to ensure that you get top tier audio and video quality, and those costs add up. Right now, the show is also completely ad free and I would love to keep it that way. So if you've been enjoying the Climbing Majority podcast, we'd like to help keep this podcast ad free and want to help me cover shipping costs.

00:49:05:24 - 00:49:23:14
Kyle
Consider joining our Patreon for as little as $5 a month. You can help support the show and you'll get access to exclusive episodes. You can find the link in our show notes or head to Patreon.com slash the climbing Majority podcast. That's Patreon.com slash the Climbing Majority podcast.

00:49:23:14 - 00:49:44:24
Kyle
So I want to I want to kind of like bridge the gap between your experience as a climber and your experiences in SA. And to me, that bridge is lost of spire. You you know, you've rescued a lot of people in your life.

00:49:45:26 - 00:50:12:03
Kyle
But that doesn't mean that you've not been on the other side of that coin. So to me, this story really, just paints a picture of kind of the situations you found yourself in, unless aerospike are kind of the situations you helped other people out of after the fact. So, tell me about that epic en la Sierra spire when you were kind of a budding climber.

00:50:12:05 - 00:50:17:10
Kyle
And how, you know, honestly, it was one of the main first times where you, like, thought you might not get out of a

00:50:18:20 - 00:50:43:09
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So I'd been. That was in 1983 and June of 83. And I had been climbing then for for a little over eight years. I was in the valley and I needed a partner, and so I moseyed over to the mountain shop Curry and, was just kind of hanging out and, seeing who was around, you know, and, and most of my buddies up there were paired up with someone.

00:50:43:09 - 00:51:09:25
Dean Rosnau
So these guys came in, and these five guys came in, and I overheard them asking some of the guides there, about information on climbing the spire, doing the spire tip. And, that was something that I really had always wanted to do, you know, and, so I just kind of were in my way in and, and after as they were leaving, I just kind of hung out with them and followed them back to the shuttle bus.

00:51:09:25 - 00:51:43:24
Dean Rosnau
And we went back to camp four and, and basically sat around the fire that evening making plans to go to the spire the next day. So, it was six of us and, you know, thought it would work out great with, you know, three teams, two. And we geared up and hiked up the trail. And again, this was early June and, you know, we just we just made a rookie mistake, and and, didn't check the weather, you know, didn't didn't check the weather forecast.

00:51:43:26 - 00:52:06:05
Dean Rosnau
So, you know, we were full of juice and shorts and t shirts and, you know, just, a couple a day, you know, light day packs with some food and water and hiked up the trail, set up the rope, drop down in about 280ft ramp down off the wall. You got to pass the knot on the way down.

00:52:06:08 - 00:52:42:23
Dean Rosnau
We were climbing on, you know, 165ft ropes back then. And, you know, the, the a breeze started and we got down as we were getting down to the notch, which is the ledge where the spires sticks out of the wall. And, this breeze started and, you know, it wasn't too bad, but, you know, the first team, two guys started up and, you know, with every minute that went by, the breeze kept picking up more and more, and it was a concern.

00:52:42:26 - 00:53:14:29
Dean Rosnau
And then, and then the breeze turned into a wind, and we were starting to get occasional spray coming off the falls, you know, in early June, the falls are just raging. It's about about this time of you know, the year of June, June 5th and, any rate, shortly thereafter, you know, within about an hour of us all starting up the route, or the first team starting up the route, these clouds just started pouring over the rim like low clouds.

00:53:15:01 - 00:53:34:00
Dean Rosnau
And, it started spitting rain, which turned to sleet, real sticky sleet. And, and it it turned sour real fast. And, when picked up, more mist coming off the waterfall. And we were just getting soaked and,

00:53:34:00 - 00:53:43:26
Dean Rosnau
at that point, the second party had already started climbing behind the first party, and I was in the going to be in the last party, so I never got on the route.

00:53:43:28 - 00:54:06:24
Dean Rosnau
But, you know, all of a sudden it was like we were in trouble and we knew we had to bail. And so, you know, the first team had the trail line on, you know, the rap line on, clipped to their harness. And, unfortunately they did, you know, had they dropped that down for us, we could have started you back and, you know, back.

00:54:06:24 - 00:54:35:02
Dean Rosnau
Junior and back up the line. But that didn't happen. And, they were later we found out they were just afraid that if they dropped it, it might get hung up with the way the wind was swirling and stuff. And so that's why they didn't drop the line. But eventually everyone got back to the to the notch. And, by then, I mean, the weather was just so poor and and, the first couple of guys tried to start jogging up the line, and we were so hypothermic by then.

00:54:35:02 - 00:54:53:16
Dean Rosnau
Just trying to make that effort was horrendous. And, you know, the amount of water coming down and sleet and, I mean, there was water running down the wall. It was crazy. So we were really pinned down and, and couldn't get up the line. And so we were kind of in this I called it a scrum.

00:54:53:16 - 00:55:00:20
Dean Rosnau
When I share this story in my book, you know, we were we were kind of in the scrum, just hugging each other and trying to stay warm. And,

00:55:00:20 - 00:55:17:19
Dean Rosnau
I knew enough about hypothermia at that point that, I knew we needed to do something. And, and so I suggested that we try and wrap the wall, you know, wrap all the way down.

00:55:17:21 - 00:55:47:26
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, it's it's like, Yeah, something like that. 1100 feet. No, no. At that time, there was nothing. We never found anything. So we had the gear that we had with us. We had four ropes, which was helpful. The the one part, the first party that was going up the route they climbed using a double rope technique.

00:55:47:29 - 00:56:10:11
Dean Rosnau
So, that was kind of came in handy that we had those extra rope, that extra rope. But, so we, we kind of had a little bit of a personal war going on about whether we should attempt that or not, but, I was just afraid we were going to die there on that ledge. And, I mean, all of us were really, really in bad, bad shape.

00:56:10:11 - 00:56:42:26
Dean Rosnau
Especially the first two guys that had gone up on the spire. And they were this, you know, the strongest of the team, certainly in personality and, and, motivation. But by then they were pretty much rendered, you know, ineffective just from the effects of the cold. So, you know, by then the clouds were just pouring down and we were basically in a fog when when you looked off, off from the notch, you know, down the wall you couldn't see, but maybe 20ft.

00:56:42:26 - 00:57:00:26
Dean Rosnau
And then the rope just disappeared into the clouds. And so I tied the first two ropes together, and I just said, look, I'll go down and see what I can see. I'll go to the end of the ropes and, and see if there's a place for anchors. And you know, try and try and keep the anchors as much to a minimum.

00:57:00:26 - 00:57:20:25
Dean Rosnau
But there was going to be not all at once, but eventually six of us on anchor. So, you know, I hope to keep it to three pieces with each anchor. So I just started down that way and and, got to the end of the ropes, came out of the clouds, which was really spooky because all of a sudden you see the exposed like hole.

00:57:20:28 - 00:57:32:02
Dean Rosnau
But, I mean, we were so intimidated, and you know, I was just when I had to when I had to urinate, I just let it go in my shorts, you know, it was like we were.

00:57:32:05 - 00:57:33:14
Kyle
Full survival mode.

00:57:33:14 - 00:57:47:19
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, we were in full survival mode. So, you know, you were just focusing on trying to stay safe and make good decisions and and so it just became a, it became a series of, of repels.

00:57:47:19 - 00:58:00:29
Dean Rosnau
And, gosh, I feel like I don't want to share too much because it's a great story in the book.

00:58:01:01 - 00:58:08:20
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, for sure.

00:58:08:22 - 00:58:33:01
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Yeah, I got pretty desperate. That was that was as we were getting, you know, closer to the the base. I was running out of gear in especially for anything wide because the the crack there, the series of cracks started out really wide. I at one point ended up our anchor was a chalk stone that was lodged in the crack was about the size of a football, which was great.

00:58:33:01 - 00:58:55:09
Dean Rosnau
That saved us some gear, but by the time I got that low, I think we were maybe, 400, 450ft from the ground. And, I, I didn't I only had one piece. I think it was a, a friend about two and a half friend. And, so I put that in, but I needed another big piece and I didn't have it rescued me.

00:58:55:09 - 00:59:12:17
Dean Rosnau
I didn't have it. So, I reached back on the back of my harness. I had two locking carabiners, and I unclipped one as I brought it around. I was going to use it as a as a chalk, right, as a as a stopper, basically. And as I brought it around and I, my hands, you know, everything was just so numb from the cold and stuff.

00:59:12:17 - 00:59:45:11
Dean Rosnau
And I bumped it against the rack and I dropped it and, and I just started whimpering like, just fully in tears, practically. And so I reached back, grabbed the other one, brought around, and just started fumbling with it and and managed to, you know, get it to a place where I thought it was going to work. And then I tied off a sling to a couple of things to it, and I stepped in it like an otter, you know, and I just kind of bounced on it like you do an aid piece, and I just ground the thing into the crack and it, it really seeded in there.

00:59:45:13 - 01:00:11:24
Dean Rosnau
And so I tied that off and then I got one other small piece managed. It was kind of genius. But I got it in there. And so I that was our anchor. And I was I think I mentioned this in the book. I was so focused and also so delirious from the cold and exhausted and everything. And you know, by then we'd been rappelling for like six hours and, I was just so out of it.

01:00:11:24 - 01:00:33:24
Dean Rosnau
And the first guy that came down, he was a guy named Carl. He came down to me after I got that anchor set, and he's like, what happened to your hands? And and I didn't even realize, but my hands were all bloody, and the only thing I could figure was in the process of trying to get that thing in there in the crack and bouncing on it and stuff.

01:00:33:24 - 01:00:49:11
Dean Rosnau
I just totally shredded my hands, and they were just bleeding all over everything, and I don't even. That's how out of it I was with the cold and stuff. I just I don't have any recollection of that at all. But it worked.

01:00:49:11 - 01:01:07:05
Kyle
And I honestly I think it's cool to just, it's a representation of how out of the box we can all be. And I talked to Silas Rossi recently and we talked about the difference between like memorize memorizing what we're supposed to do versus conceptualizing. Why. And I think that like that's a prime example of like the application of conceptualization.

01:01:07:05 - 01:01:22:00
Kyle
Right. It's like you understand the, the the concept behind passive gear. And you are able to use something that's not necessarily told to use as passive gear, but you understood the principles behind it and you were able to make something work.

01:01:22:17 - 01:01:45:21
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. I think I look back on that and think that, that was one of the advantages of starting climbing when I did, you know, again, we didn't have cams, so we were using, you know, pins and then stoppers and hexes and, you know, hexes, kind of like a big chalk stone. And, you know, whenever you saw a natural track stone, you would use it just to save gear.

01:01:45:21 - 01:02:09:12
Dean Rosnau
Right? And so when you have that mindset, anything could be a chalk stone. So how about a carabiner, you know. So, it worked. So someone I don't know is hard as I jumped on that thing, that thing's probably still welded in there all these years later, but maybe somebody hammered it out of there for booty. Wouldn't it?

01:02:09:12 - 01:02:25:20
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, yeah, it was an SMC, I can tell you that.

01:02:25:23 - 01:02:32:29
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:02:33:01 - 01:02:53:19
Dean Rosnau
They were. Yeah. And, you know, and now that goes back to that, that kind of battle we were having at the notch, you know, what do we do? And the two guys whose girlfriends were with them on the trip, were down in the valley, and they were they were certain, you know, they just had this certainty that the gals were going to report us in trouble.

01:02:53:21 - 01:03:32:02
Dean Rosnau
And, they had certainly seen us leave the campsite that morning down at camp or, you know, just in shorts and T-shirts with no extra stuff. But, I just said, you know, we can't I my my feeling was we couldn't afford to wait, right? I mean, if they didn't report us in trouble, I mean, there I made a comment like they're probably shopping or hanging out at the beach or something, and and I got I caught some wrath from those two guys, you know, but, I just didn't feel like we could wait, but, yeah, they they, we were about halfway down the wall, and, all of a sudden this we

01:03:32:02 - 01:03:52:28
Dean Rosnau
hear this voice on a bullhorn. And, so they had reported us and the SAR team started hiking up the Falls Trail, and then, they got up about halfway up the trail. You know, about half height on Yosemite Falls. And they spotted us across the wall. So they started yelling, you know, talking to us through the the bullhorn.

01:03:52:28 - 01:04:15:25
Dean Rosnau
And then and then they disappeared. We were just stoked, you know, that someone was coming for us and we were able to obey their signals, you know, and wave back and and all that. And, and unbeknownst to us, they they sent and they called down, you know, radio down and sent another team to hike up, from, like, Yosemite Point Buttress and up to the base of where we were coming down.

01:04:15:25 - 01:04:52:18
Dean Rosnau
So, you know, by the time we were within maybe 500ft of of being at the on the deck, we could see the team down there gearing up, you know, ready for our arrival. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And I just remember, you know, we were so numb and it just took it took so much effort to do things when you're that out of it both mentally and physically, and just seeing them scampering around, you know, it was like ants, you know, just moving around very, very methodically, very quickly and setting up.

01:04:52:18 - 01:05:08:19
Dean Rosnau
They were setting up tube tents and stuff, you know, just getting ready for our arrival. And I just remember thinking, wow, look, look, look at how fast, how can they move that fast? You know, it was just the mind was not working so well, but pretty numb.

01:05:08:19 - 01:05:19:28
Kyle
another one. Another thing about this story that caught me off guard was that you never spoke or saw these people that you went through this like super profound experience with. Again like the, the other four climbers like Carl. No

01:05:20:04 - 01:05:36:28
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Five other guys. So we got down. They took us, you know, as well. After dark, we ended up in the clinic there and spent the night at the clinic. And, you know, we were all afraid. We were all young kids, you know, we were all afraid we were going to get this huge bill and stuff. And so we kind of refused everything.

01:05:36:28 - 01:05:55:27
Dean Rosnau
And those girlfriends of those two guys, they had went over to Degnan and got a bunch of food. And so we're just, you know, we were chomping on pizza and stuff and just kind of replenishing the, the bellies and,

01:05:56:00 - 01:06:18:13
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, they we went back over to camp and, that next morning, they they decided to bail. They had all come from Colorado. And, you know, this was 1983, so cell phones didn't exist and all that. So, yeah, none of that was, was happening. So, I remember writing out I actually tore out a page out of my guidebook.

01:06:18:15 - 01:06:39:16
Dean Rosnau
That was the only paper I had. I tore of the page on the back of the, you know, just one of the blank pages in the very back of the book. And I wrote my name and my address and the phone number of where I was living. And and then I wrote on the note, I said, let's go climbing next time.

01:06:39:18 - 01:07:17:11
Dean Rosnau
So, yeah, I never heard from them again. Yeah. And you know that. I mean, it was that was one of those experiences that, could have easily made anyone just go, you know what I think I'm going to take up, you know? Yeah. Anything but this. But to me, it was like, I mean, it was a hard experience to go through, but again, kind of like what happened on that day, you know, you you learn from those experiences and you kind of man, first thing I did was just thank you, Lord.

01:07:17:11 - 01:07:54:03
Dean Rosnau
I just remember coming to I was pretty out of it, you know, in my head when I got down and the next thing I remember, that night was waking up, kind of coming to, and they were all these guys were just asking me tons of questions and, you know, trying to get my mojo back and, feeding me some bullion in a cup and, and I just remember thanking God over and over again, you know, those guardian angels, because that was that was such a close call.

01:07:54:06 - 01:08:12:02
Dean Rosnau
And at that point in my life, that was like the closest call that I'd had in my climbing career. Yeah. And then a year later, Laura went missing. And then my that's when my career started. Yeah.

01:08:12:04 - 01:08:40:08
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you can make a choice on whether you let those, those kinds of things, define you or, or, you know, count them as a learning experience. And, you know, if, if they define you more often than not, it's kind of it's going to make you quit, you know, you're just going to say, and I suspect maybe that's what happened with those guys or I mean, who knows?

01:08:40:10 - 01:08:44:17
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:44:17 - 01:08:57:14
Kyle
Yeah. Hats off to you. Totally understand. But I think more just your situation where you know, you you've you've seen death at the base of Bridal Veil Falls. You've had these close calls climbing.

01:08:57:16 - 01:09:02:28
Kyle
You, you know, the the lady. What's her name again? I'm so sorry. The what? Missing injury.

01:09:03:07 - 01:09:06:01
Dean Rosnau
Oh, a little girl, Laura Bradbury.

01:09:06:01 - 01:09:26:16
Kyle
Bradbury, she went missing. And you like where? Around that. I don't think a lot of all of these events and all these things are happening in, like, this order, and, Yeah, it just seems to me like the universe is work order or whatever is is been pushing you down this path that you've almost kind of meant to be on.

01:09:28:02 - 01:09:48:23
Dean Rosnau
You know, it's it's interesting that you bring that up. I had this wild experience. I was, you know, I was a builder for my career, and I was doing this project on the western side of the Sierra, west of Tahoe, and my clients asked me to drive them to the airport in Sacramento early one morning, like, three in the morning.

01:09:48:26 - 01:10:04:09
Dean Rosnau
And so I, I took them and I dropped them off, and I was heading back to the project, and I, I had stopped for a coffee and I it just hit my system and I really had to find a bathroom quick. And I was in an area of Sacramento that I didn't know, you know, I wasn't sure where I was.

01:10:04:09 - 01:10:27:21
Dean Rosnau
And it was like now four, 430 in the morning. So I find this gas station and I pull in and, and I, I, I go up to use the, the, the bathroom and I go to open the door and there's a, there's a body laying on the floor in front of the toilet. Yeah. And I'm like, geez, I can't get away from this stuff.

01:10:27:21 - 01:10:47:16
Dean Rosnau
It's like everywhere I go, you know? No, he was dead. I mean, I, I reached down and checked his his carotid pulse, you know, and the guy was dead. I mean, he, you know, he was it was a straight guy, you know, and, and, you know, smell a lot of alcohol and stuff. And, you know, it was clear he'd been living on the street, but, yeah, he died.

01:10:47:22 - 01:11:08:10
Dean Rosnau
I mean, and I had to go so bad, you know? And, I mean, I would have had to put my feet on his chest to sit down on the toilet. It was. That's where he was. And and it was it actually, I immediately I had to go so bad I immediately went into the, the women's bathroom next door, you know, and and finally got the relief.

01:11:08:10 - 01:11:25:27
Dean Rosnau
So I'm sitting there on the toilet and I called 911. So I'm sitting there and like the response time was epically quick because all of a sudden I hear the sirens and I see the flashing lights coming from underneath the bathroom door, and I'm in there trying to get business done and finally come out the door and all these lights are on me, you know?

01:11:25:27 - 01:11:45:20
Dean Rosnau
And anyway, it was pretty wild. But yeah, and I had other stuff like I, you know, I took my wife, we would often on our anniversary go climb a peak. And, she saw me. We were, you know, I was gearing up the night before, and she saw me put my radio in my pack, you know, my SA radio.

01:11:45:23 - 01:12:05:04
Dean Rosnau
And she goes, why you bring it out? And I said, because it's me, you know, because it's the way that life seems to go for me. Well, sure enough, we climbed the peak and on the descent we came across a guy walking on his hands and knees, a fisherman who had snapped his ankle fishing at a backcountry lake and was trying to crawl out.

01:12:05:06 - 01:12:23:10
Dean Rosnau
So, we got him out. The two of us? Yeah. It's been a it's been a while. But, you know, I think that, that's one of the reasons I think that this is a calling. This has been a calling on my life. You know, God, God has used me and put me in situations where I could be effective.

01:12:23:12 - 01:12:40:02
Dean Rosnau
And so I was just always prepared for that, no matter what. I mean, I basically, I still am. I have my first aid kit in my truck all the time, even though I'm not with Sara anymore. You know, I just I'm always I stop at every car accident, I see you, I just see if I can help out.

01:12:40:02 - 01:12:41:26
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:12:41:26 - 01:13:02:06
Kyle
get. Is it to the point where you are seeking it out in a way. Not in like I hope something bad happens to somebody. Not like that, but like where there's an element of, of hope that you can find someone to help. Or is it just like, absolutely random where it's just like, it just you, you come across this kind of situation very frequently.

01:13:03:00 - 01:13:31:13
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. No. So, you know, for me, it's a first responder mentality is, you know, when that call comes in, your your mindset is you you respond to that call wanting to save a life. Right? That's your goal to do whatever it takes to to effect that rescue or search mission. And so I've done it. I did that for so many years, with so many missions that that's just become my mindset.

01:13:31:13 - 01:13:57:10
Dean Rosnau
And so, you know, I, I go out to do my climbs or hikes or whatever I'm going to go do wanting to have fun, but knowing that, hey, if something does happen and I hope it doesn't, but if it does happen, I, I want to be effective. I want to be able to to make a difference, you know, and be significant for someone who's maybe not having one of their better days.

01:13:57:12 - 01:14:18:09
Dean Rosnau
So, you know, I guess I was never a Boy Scout, but, you know, the I guess the Boy Scout motto is always be prepared. And you know, that's just the way I like to to go. That's the way I like to roll. I, you know, I want to be able to to be a change agent for somebody who's, who's in trouble.

01:14:18:09 - 01:14:27:01
Dean Rosnau
And hopefully I'm prepared enough to do that. So just a mindset. Yeah.

01:14:27:01 - 01:14:45:00
Kyle
Yeah. Have you. It's like what's that rule like prepare for something that it will never happen. Don't prepare for something like and it might not happen. It's like it's like that juxtaposition. It's like, okay, if I plan for this to happen, then it might.

01:14:45:00 - 01:14:57:01
Kyle
It's probably going to happen because I plan for it. But if I like, didn't bring the first aid kit, maybe, you know, I didn't plan for it, so it's not going to happen, you know? But then you're leaving yourself up to chance of like, okay, well, if it does happen, you're fucked. So it's

01:14:58:20 - 01:15:21:03
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. You know? And, I like to tell people, you know, when I'm doing my presentation. I like to tell the audience, you know, as a team, we. We want people to go out and enjoy the wilderness with a mindset of getting themselves out of their predicament.

01:15:21:03 - 01:15:29:21
Dean Rosnau
Because once you call for SAR response, you're you're putting the lives of good people in danger.

01:15:29:23 - 01:15:50:04
Dean Rosnau
And and so you should really be sure that you're justified in that call and you know, and and do everything that you can't. Obviously, you know, if there are some situations where you absolutely need the help, but if you can get yourself out, do that. And so when I go out to do my own stuff, climbs or whatever, right.

01:15:50:06 - 01:16:07:22
Dean Rosnau
I'm prepared for that, both with the stuff that I bring and you know, mainly mentally, just have a plan. You know, I, I like to always tell people in my presentations, have an emergency plan if you're going to go in, you know, you're going to a certain route or whatever, have a plan for what if this happens?

01:16:07:22 - 01:16:12:05
Dean Rosnau
What if that happens? Yeah. So just.

01:16:12:05 - 01:16:29:00
Kyle
personal rules for traveling in the mountains alone. Let someone know where you're going and when you plan to return. Don't take the same risks you would with a partner. So like that's why if you're going alone, hubris will get you killed. And then the third is stick to the plan. And I think that's that's the big one, right?

01:16:29:00 - 01:16:36:18
Kyle
It's like you're going to tell someone where you go, and then you end up not going to that place and you go missing. Where the hell are people supposed to look

01:16:37:00 - 01:17:04:08
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So I'd love to spend a little bit of time on the subject, because this is really the heart of search and rescue. Okay? If if you hear anything in this interview here, this, the best thing is our team has on a rescue response, isn't there? Personnel? It's the information that we get from what we call the R.P., the reporting party.

01:17:04:08 - 01:17:34:24
Dean Rosnau
The person who reports you overdue, missing, injured, what have you. Because we're going to use that information. And so leaving an itinerary is the most important thing that any backcountry user can do. And, and an itinerary needs to be very the more detailed, the better. And what I'm about to say, a lot of people will will think I'm being ridiculous, but I'll explain why I'm going to say these things.

01:17:34:26 - 01:17:53:10
Dean Rosnau
Most people think an itinerary is, oh, I told my wife that, you know, we're going to go climb Mount Ritter, and then, you know, we're going to leave from the, the, the trailhead and, and do it car to car in a day. So that's where the car will be parked and they call it their itinerary.

01:17:53:10 - 01:17:55:23
Dean Rosnau
Well, that's not a very good itinerary.

01:17:55:23 - 01:18:18:28
Dean Rosnau
I mean that's that's got the basics. We want to know where you're starting and where you're going and where you're going to end. But put in that itinerary everything you can, everything that you're carrying and carrying with you in your pack, what brand of pack you have, what shoes you're wearing. I even tell people, take a photocopy of your shoe print, okay?

01:18:19:04 - 01:18:42:18
Dean Rosnau
And leave that with the person that's going to be reporting you missing. So you're leaving your itinerary with whoever your spouse or whoever is going to report you overdue, right? And then everything that's in your pack, right down to your chapstick. And whether it's regular flavor or grape or strawberry. And here's the reason why we want all those details.

01:18:43:09 - 01:19:09:08
Dean Rosnau
When a search team looks for missing people, we don't look for the person. We look for clues that lead to the person. And so if we know that you have a certain piece of gear or clothing, a certain color hat with a logo on it, whatever it is, your footprint, we're going to search for those things and that's going to help guide us to you.

01:19:09:08 - 01:19:36:23
Dean Rosnau
Okay. That'll be one tool. Now, the importance of sticking to your itinerary is that's what we're as a star team. That's what we're going to be following is your itinerary. So if the itinerary says we're going to go up and climb Mount Ritter by the north ridge and then descend the south ridge and back to the trailhead. Well, when you're back there and you've made good time and you decide, hey, we've got time, let's go tag banner Peak while we're here.

01:19:37:00 - 01:20:03:02
Dean Rosnau
The summit is just a few hours. It's right there. Don't do it. Save it for another day. Because if the injury happens over there, that's not where we're going to be searching for you. And eventually we might find you. But it might be too late, depending upon your injuries and your situation. So stick to your itinerary and we're going to be following it to you very important.

01:20:05:07 - 01:20:11:05
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:20:11:07 - 01:20:33:10
Dean Rosnau
Sure. Put it in your itinerary, though, 100%. Yep. Because then what we would do is we'd send two teams. One team is going to go climb Ridder, the other one's going to do banner. That's how we would pull that off. You know, you're always trying to shorten that span between reported missing in the find. So because you don't know what the injury is what the situation is.

01:20:33:10 - 01:20:34:26
Dean Rosnau
So yeah.

01:20:35:12 - 01:20:56:08
Kyle
When we're traveling alone how can we ensure if we do get ourselves in a situation and we're not able to use a GPS transcoder to call for rescue. How do we ensure that people report us missing sooner or in time. Enough to do something valuable.

01:20:56:13 - 01:21:18:11
Dean Rosnau
Well hopefully you've you've left your itinerary in a, in a time with that person and, and you know, going circling back a little bit, whoever you leave all this information with has to be a very responsible person. You know, whether it's your spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend or whoever it's going to be, you tell them you're going to be back by, you know, 7 p.m. on this night.

01:21:18:14 - 01:21:35:18
Dean Rosnau
And if you're not back, they're going to be the one making that phone call. Okay. As far as attracting response to you, and it sounds like maybe that was was that what you were looking?

01:21:35:20 - 01:21:46:06
Dean Rosnau
Okay. Yeah.

01:21:46:08 - 01:21:49:15
Dean Rosnau
And be helpful.

01:21:49:15 - 01:21:51:03
Kyle
I guess that's the answer to the question, right?

01:21:51:03 - 01:21:58:12
Kyle
Because if you go missing on day one and no one, you know, no one's expecting to hear back from you until day seven, that's six days that you have to survive

01:21:59:02 - 01:22:04:19
Dean Rosnau
Right, right. Yeah.

01:22:05:19 - 01:22:23:19
Dean Rosnau
Well, but there's other things that you can do. And so that's what I was leading up to is, you know, there are other things that you can carry with you, to attract attention to yourself. So hopefully there's someone else on the trail or maybe hiking through the valley below. And you, you can't I can't stress this enough.

01:22:23:19 - 01:22:49:19
Dean Rosnau
You can't rely on your voice because people that are injured lost, whatever in desperate situation, typically they're panicking, maybe in some shock from injury and you'll blow out your vocal cords screaming as loud as you can. Your voice will only carry so far even if it's not blown out, but you'll damage your vocal cords very quickly. So having a whistle, you know, all the sports stores I everybody, every climbing shop sells emergency whistles.

01:22:49:22 - 01:23:19:05
Dean Rosnau
That's great. And then, you know, having a reflective device, you know, and I've always told people, you know, back in the days when, when DVDs and CDs were still a thing, but they're like the, the greatest signal mirror because the, the backside is a mirror. Right. And it's also got a hole in the center. So you can look through that and aim it at, you know, a team or a helicopter come or whatever and, and attract attention with that reflection.

01:23:19:05 - 01:23:48:29
Dean Rosnau
Okay. And then this is something that everyone needs to know. Every user of the backcountry, the international districts distress signal. Do you know what it is, what you should you read my book so it's not S.O.S.. Okay. The international distress signal is three of anything. So three flashes of light and then stop, and then three flashes of light and stop, or three whistle blasts in a row and then stop and three more.

01:23:49:01 - 01:24:21:15
Dean Rosnau
We were on a mission, for a missing backpacker who got hit, got trapped by an early snowfall. It snowed like 2.5ft in. And you know his his RRP. Whoever reported him overdue said that he wasn't prepared for that, gear wise. And so my partner and I were being flown in by, Hilo to a location to start up high and work down on the trail that he was supposedly going to be hiking on.

01:24:21:17 - 01:24:33:05
Dean Rosnau
And, as we were approaching RLC where we were going to land the Hilo and get dropped off from probably at least a quarter mile away,

01:24:33:05 - 01:24:53:19
Dean Rosnau
we spotted three parallel trenches that were like 30ft long, stomped in the snow, and we again, we spotted it from 4 or 500 yards away from the Hilo. And it, you know, and then the guy made those marks and it drew it just drew us to it.

01:24:53:21 - 01:25:28:06
Dean Rosnau
And then from there we set down. And then my partner and I just got on his track because he didn't stay there. He started trying to hike back out and we just hiked on his track and caught up to him. Yeah. So three of anything that's really a critical thing to know and that's worldwide, wherever you're I mean, if you're in Shamone or wherever you're at, that'll work.

01:25:28:08 - 01:25:52:21
Dean Rosnau
Well, there's a lot of things, but, I think the best thing is having that mentality before you go that you're going to do everything you can. If you get in trouble to get yourself out and then, you know, do your best to pick up objectives that are within your wheelhouse. And this has been kind of an interesting thing over the course of my career, because when I started in 84, again, none of this technology existed, right?

01:25:52:21 - 01:26:33:27
Dean Rosnau
And no cell phones, no GPS, none of that was around. And so what I got to see over the course of my career as all this technology became available, when I looked through my database of all of these missions, it's been really interesting to see the the cause of events and the demographic of the victim. And interestingly, it's been more and more young men, young guys and and I, I can attribute it, I believe, to, you know, the whole Instagram, Facebook, the whole social media thing.

01:26:33:29 - 01:27:01:14
Dean Rosnau
I call it the GoPro mentality. And I love GoPro, but, you know, they're they're their logo. Their motto is be a hero. Right. And so these young guys and gals do it too. But they go out, you know, and and maybe they have the skill sets to do X, y, z peak or climb or whatever. And then they get the hero shot, you know, with their selfie stick because, you know, you got to have one of those in the backcountry anyway.

01:27:01:14 - 01:27:34:17
Dean Rosnau
They get that shot. And maybe they go back to work after the weekend and they put that shot on their on their screen and their computer at work or, you know, they just throw it up on Instagram, right? And all of a sudden they're the hero. Well, one of their buddies sees it and he's like, ooh man, my my girl will think I'm all that if I go do that, you know, not even considering that he might not have the skill sets to do that and then go out and try and do an objective that he doesn't have qualifications or not the right gear for what have you and, you know, pay the price.

01:27:34:19 - 01:27:51:22
Dean Rosnau
Yeah, 100%.

01:27:51:25 - 01:28:04:24
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:28:04:26 - 01:28:08:07
Dean Rosnau
Right. All right. Yeah.

01:28:08:07 - 01:28:24:25
Kyle
it's coming straight from a gym. Even if you've gone to a local crack a couple times. I think that we underestimate the power of the mountains and the topography and the landscape, and just how far away from everything you find yourself when you're at the base of that

01:28:26:26 - 01:28:28:01
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:28:28:01 - 01:28:41:02
Kyle
really I think it really puts people out of their comfort zone. People start making bad decisions, coming in unprepared. I mean, I've interviewed someone that had an epic on on Whitney and, they ended up having to hike down the whole hike or trail, come back up to the base, grab their

01:28:41:15 - 01:28:43:18
Dean Rosnau
Oh, yeah. Yeah.

01:28:43:18 - 01:28:59:09
Kyle
to me, that is the main reason why, you know, along with people even finding out that these routes are a thing because of social media. But again, it's just the picture. There's no story behind it. You don't know who this person really is. You don't know what went into it. You don't know anything really.

01:28:59:09 - 01:29:10:25
Kyle
And it does become very easy for us to kind of like tuck ourselves into putting ourselves exposed in these, in these, places where the great is just, just the tip of the iceberg.

01:29:11:13 - 01:29:30:20
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. You know, picking the wrong objective. I mean, I remember being with a partner, climbing up into me, and it's my favorite spot in the world that I've climbed. And, it was near the end of the day, and we had just come off a route on Stately Pleasure and, where I come back to the car and all of a sudden we heard, you know, yells of help!

01:29:30:23 - 01:29:51:11
Dean Rosnau
You know, someone yelling for help from up on high. And it was this party, this guy in this gal up on South Crag, which is, you know, it's a it's only A58 crack. But then you get up three pitches and then it, it goes into some seriously wrong run out, slab climbing, you know, at like five, seven with no protection.

01:29:51:13 - 01:30:12:05
Dean Rosnau
And so the, you know, my partner and I decided we were going to go up and help these folks. So we we did the route up to them. And, you know, we get up to the guy and and it's like what happened? And and he's like, I just freaked out. He goes, I climb 512 in the gym. But he he looked at those run outs and he just froze, you know.

01:30:12:05 - 01:30:33:12
Dean Rosnau
And they didn't know how to wrap from there. So, you know, they were there in a bit of a search. So yeah, you just got to pick pick the right objectives and, and try and avoid getting I mean obviously, you know, we've all we've all done things where we've got ourselves into situations. But you know, hopefully you have the wherewithal to get yourself out.

01:30:33:12 - 01:30:39:16
Dean Rosnau
And then if you don't, you make good decisions on how to alert for help. So.

01:30:40:08 - 01:30:55:29
Kyle
Talk to me about kind of the darker side towards people. So there's one side of the coin is I, I'm going to do everything I can in my power to get out of the mountains

01:30:58:14 - 01:31:00:01
Dean Rosnau
Yeah.

01:31:00:01 - 01:31:11:01
Kyle
does it look like from the SARS perspective when someone is not only unprepared but is kind of abusing the rescue system?

01:31:11:03 - 01:31:16:24
Kyle
What does that look like from your perspective? And kind of like paint a picture of who we don't want to be. Us as outdoor athletes.

01:31:18:08 - 01:31:42:26
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. Well, again, I circle back to what I said a few minutes ago about, When when you make that decision to call for SAR assistance, you're you're putting people's lives at risk. Especially if we're going to be flying in the mountains in Hilo. By far one of the most dangerous things I've ever done. And and I've got a lot of time in those ships, and they're great crews.

01:31:42:26 - 01:32:09:23
Dean Rosnau
And it's it's not I'm not disparaging the crews. It's just a dangerous thing to do. So you need to consider that. And, you know, there were a number of incidences over the course of my career where, people abused the system. And, and, you know, maybe got just too tired and decided, I'm going to call for SAR, and, you know, they'll get me out of here.

01:32:09:26 - 01:32:29:22
Dean Rosnau
You talk about an abuse of the system. That that's that's as far as I'm concerned, that's criminal. Thankfully, for the most part, throughout my career, you know, we're human beings, and and people just flat out make mistakes.

01:32:29:22 - 01:32:36:21
Dean Rosnau
Whether changes, you know, look at what I did on the last year. I mean, the biggest mistake we made was not checking the weather, right?

01:32:36:24 - 01:33:09:13
Dean Rosnau
So, you know, it can happen to anybody. I just think it's really important that we go in the backcountry with a mindset of doing everything we can to get ourselves out of the the mess that we find ourselves in. And then really make good decisions. And it doesn't hurt to have, you know, even really teaches good, emergency courses, you know, on, on how to deal with backcountry situations.

01:33:09:13 - 01:33:27:28
Dean Rosnau
But I would recommend people to even go deeper than that and take some good first date and advanced first aid courses. And really, if you want to, you know, be the rock star, you know, go through the wilderness first responder course and it just makes you more confident and,

01:33:27:28 - 01:33:32:29
Dean Rosnau
you know, really helps mitigate a situation that, that you might come upon.

01:33:32:29 - 01:34:05:29
Dean Rosnau
I remember one case we had, we got the report of, of an injured skier up on Mount Dana, which is right on the border of Yosemite and the county that I served in my own county. And so, these two guys were climbing the the car on Dana, and they saw they witnessed this guy. He was hiking up with his skis up the North face and and took a fall and and got pretty banged up and was motionless on the side of the, the peak.

01:34:05:29 - 01:34:27:02
Dean Rosnau
And so they abandoned their climb, came down and went across and then climbed up to the guy. And the guy had some serious head injury and was in and out of consciousness, you know, and they did what they could with what they had to try and stop the bleeding on his head. And and then they tied the guy off to the side of the mountain.

01:34:27:04 - 01:34:47:13
Dean Rosnau
And then both of those guys left to hike out to go get help. They didn't have cell phone. This was actually before cell phones. And, they hiked out and left that head injured victim alone. And that's something that if you took a medical or any kind of first aid, you would learn that you never leave a head injured patient alone.

01:34:47:15 - 01:35:07:21
Dean Rosnau
And so when we got that report, when the report came in to the so that, they had left this guy up there alone, that was a big concern. And so my partner and I flew in and the Hilo and as we were approaching the peak, we were flying straight in towards, you know, where they had told us we could find him.

01:35:07:23 - 01:35:33:29
Dean Rosnau
And we saw this tremendous blood streak going all the way down hundreds of feet down the peak. And what had happened was that that guy had the the victim had come to at some point unclipped himself from the anchor that they had him tied in. And fell like 800ft down the down the peak and killed him. So it was a body recovery.

01:35:34:01 - 01:35:50:26
Dean Rosnau
It was just poor decisions. And, and so, you know, having having a little bit of preparation goes a long way and, and maybe saving someone's serious injury or their life. Yeah.

01:35:50:26 - 01:36:20:18
Kyle
You have, seen a lot of, of death in your time in sa, And a lot of loss both to, to, you know, the people around you and people you don't know. I kind of like to dive into this topic of, of death and grief. And how kind of large of a role it's played in, in your life.

01:36:20:20 - 01:36:47:11
Kyle
And to me, the I think the story that really kind of paints the picture for how serious things can get is, is the story with Pete. And so, you know, if that's something you're, you're still willing to go into, I'd like to dive into that story and kind of the details around what happened and, ultimately kind of use that story to lay the foundation for, dealing with things like that moving forward.

01:36:47:14 - 01:37:08:20
Kyle
So, you know, the story, from, from what I read, which I found the circumstances of the accident I found extremely interesting, especially with your kind of role in it, where there's this very ephemeral ice formation forming up very high on the wall. It's going to be in for conditions. Look, great for it.

01:37:08:20 - 01:37:36:08
Kyle
You're planning ahead with a party of three, and then all of a sudden, the conditions start to worsen and the window is shortening, and you have to get up on it sooner. Which, because of your work, you are unable to participate in the objective, which I found extremely interesting. My first question for this is what was the job and why did it?

01:37:36:10 - 01:37:41:16
Kyle
Why was it so important that you bailed on this objective, that you were so psyched on?

01:37:41:27 - 01:38:02:22
Dean Rosnau
Yeah. So, Yeah. That formation formed up for the first time, and, the three of us really started looking at it hard. Hard? Excuse me. And, and then the weather changed and started getting warmer in. A storm was inbound. And typically those Pacific storms push a lot of warm air. This was in June Lake, where I lived.

01:38:02:24 - 01:38:26:17
Dean Rosnau
I mean, I could see the route from my house, and, we had seen this weather coming and, and, and Pete especially kind of threw up the red flag and said, man, we, you know, with the weather changing this thing, could, you know, the route could fall down. And so we need to get on it right away. So we moved up the schedule and, and it was like we were having this conversation and it was going to be the next morning.

01:38:26:17 - 01:38:42:00
Dean Rosnau
And I had a I was a builder and I had a, scheduled inspection with the county on one of my projects that I had to be at. And I, I just to further the job, I couldn't cancel it. I had to be there for it. So I just told the guys, I said, man, you know, my job.

01:38:42:00 - 01:38:42:25
Dean Rosnau
So I has a