90 | No Hand, No Problem w/ Kimber Cross

Picture this: you’re ice climbing. Now picture doing it… without fingers on one of your hands. Sounds nearly impossible, right? Well today, I sit down with Kimber Cross, a kindergarten teacher, adaptive athlete, and living embodiment of her own personal motto: Can’t. Will. Did.

Born without fingers on her right hand, Kimber grew up doing all the “normal” sports and activities—fully adapting to the world around her. But when she discovered ice climbing, for the first time, she hit a wall. How do you climb vertical ice without a second ice axe?

In true Kimber fashion, she reached out to a prosthetist, and together they designed a custom prosthetic ice tool that allowed her to return to the ice on the sharp end.

Fast forward to today—Kimber is pursuing professional climbing, setting bold goals like the Moose’s Tooth in Alaska. She’s inspiring those around her through grit, vision, and a refusal to let anything hold her back.

In our conversation, we talk about how she discovered ice climbing, the story behind her custom ice tool, a high-stakes malfunction on the Moose’s Tooth, and what is next on her journey.

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Resources

Kimber's IG

Kimber's Website

Short Film "Can't. Will. Did."

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 3:44 A Passion For Ice Climbing
• 21:52 The Prosthetic
• 49:18 Adaptations
• 1:03:02 Malfunction on the Moose's Tooth
• 1:13:56 A Step Towards Pro Climbing
• 1:24:50 Closing Reflections

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:09:24
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where I capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes from around the world.

00:00:09:26 - 00:00:14:17
Speaker 1
Come join me as I dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00:00:16:12 - 00:00:34:03
Speaker 1
What's up everybody? I hope you're all having an incredible spring climbing season. I just got back from my third trip to Joshua Tree, and let me tell you, I am buzzing with stoked for this sport and for this project of sharing the stories of the majority. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to share a few things with you.

00:00:34:10 - 00:00:56:17
Speaker 1
First, just a little reminder. The road trip to go climb is always worth it. Whether it's work, kids, or just the chaos of life, making the time to go out and climb is something that just never disappoints. Take my good friend and previous guest, Bryce. He's got a full time job, a family, two kids, and he still makes the 2.5 hour drive to Joshua Tree for a single day of climbing.

00:00:56:19 - 00:01:19:11
Speaker 1
People often wonder how others manage to climb so much assuming they must not work, have no responsibilities, or just come from money. But after nearly three years of doing this show, one thing is clear people like that just make the time. They prioritize climbing and their passion drives them. So if you've been second guessing that we can get away, don't just go for it at the end of the weekend.

00:01:19:11 - 00:01:44:16
Speaker 1
There are those who have climbed and those who wish they had. Secondly, I am stoked to announce that we officially have our first Patreon subscriber. If you are listening, thank you. That show of support means the world to me. As a thank you, I am putting together a special episode just for Patreon subscribers. Lately, I've been getting a lot of questions about climbing partnerships, how I find climbing partners, what to do when you outgrow climbing partner, and more.

00:01:44:18 - 00:02:07:10
Speaker 1
So I'll be talking to several different people about these topics and stitching together their perspectives, including my own, into a Patreon exclusive episode. So if you want in, head over to Patreon and become a subscriber! For as little as $3 a month, you can help support the show. Plus, your contribution helps cover my shipping costs of sending professional recording equipment to each guest, and you'll be helping keep this podcast ad free.

00:02:07:12 - 00:02:37:08
Speaker 1
Click the link in the description or head over to Patreon.com Slash the Climbing Majority podcast. That's Patreon.com slash the Climbing Majority podcast. All right, onto today's conversation. Picture this your ice climbing. Now picture doing it without fingers on one of your hands. Sounds nearly impossible, right? Well, today I sit down with Kimber Cross, a kindergarten teacher, adaptive athlete and living embodiment of her own personal motto.

00:02:37:11 - 00:03:05:00
Speaker 1
Can't. Will. Did. Born without fingers on her right hand. Kimber grew up doing all the normal sports and activities, fully adapting to the world around her. But when she discovered ice climbing for the first time, she hit a wall. How do you climb vertical ice without a second ice ax? In true Kimber fashion, she reached out to a prosthetist, and together they designed a custom prosthetic ice tool that allowed her to return to the ice on the sharp end.

00:03:05:02 - 00:03:25:11
Speaker 1
Fast forward to today. Kimber is pursuing professional climbing. Setting bold goals like the moose's tooth in Alaska. She's inspiring those around her through grit, vision, and a refusal to let anything hold her back. In our conversation, we talk about how she discovered ice climbing the story behind her custom ice tool. A high stakes malfunction on the moose's tooth.

00:03:25:13 - 00:03:31:25
Speaker 1
And what is next on her journey? So without further ado, I bring you Kimber Cross.

00:03:51:11 - 00:04:18:04
Speaker 1
It was during my, intermediate course for the mountaineers, an organization out in Washington state. So they have three different modules, on the, you know, leading aspect to enter it. Finished the basic course, Glacier Rock. And then intermediate is had a lead on rock at a lead on glacier climbs and then had an ice climb. You know Washington's alpine ISO Northridge Baker.

00:04:18:04 - 00:04:46:12
Speaker 1
You know Cal out on Rainier. You know more tech techie style alpine routes. And then I also knew that was kind of the gateway to waterfall ice and ice climbing. And, when we kind of were signing up for the course and looking through it, I was just like, oh, that is definitely, a two full, two hands sport, you know, for rock, I've

00:04:46:12 - 00:04:49:28
Speaker 1
talked about, you know, I like to call my stump my hex nine.

00:04:50:00 - 00:05:09:29
Speaker 1
It's the same shape, essentially. So, you know, I lock it in and, you know, I have this piece of pro, you know, on my hand so I can climb and lead and whatnot with ease on rock. But this was definitely something where it was going to have to be, a a prosthetic.

00:05:09:29 - 00:05:31:18
Speaker 1
And I had never really tapped into that realm because I knew as a kid, you know, I parents took me at like 5 or 6 to a doctor's office to talk about prosthetics, because I was interested in the piano, but that was really they put on plastic stuff, and I saw other kids, and I just felt so inhibited by

00:05:31:18 - 00:05:57:16
Speaker 1
prosthetics, and I was like, I can play the piano better without it. I can tell I should remember it. So prosthetics in my mind were just, things that were got in the way of me doing what I wanted to do. They weren't super helpful with my specific disability. And then I realized in this course, I probably would have to circle back to the world of prosthetics

00:05:57:16 - 00:06:00:20
Speaker 1
if I wanted to ice climb.

00:06:00:22 - 00:06:23:06
Speaker 1
And the instructor for this course was like, hey, you're free. Know, I see you. You know, that look of like, oh no, how am I going to do this? And he showed a blurry, you know, oh, 15 year old, you know, now I find out 15 year old picture of, Maureen Beck using an a prosthetic ice tool that she had used in the past.

00:06:23:06 - 00:06:42:01
Speaker 1
Currently, she doesn't use it anymore. She's found a different way to, swing tools that keeps her, you know, specific disability stump warmer and. But that's all I needed. Like one grainy picture of a person on ice with this, like, thing on their arm that had an ice tool at the end, and I was like, okay, done. It can happen.

00:06:42:01 - 00:06:55:21
Speaker 1
I have no idea how, but step one I saw a picture.

00:06:55:24 - 00:07:05:19
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:07:05:22 - 00:07:24:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, I can.

00:07:24:17 - 00:07:24:23
Speaker 1
know.

00:07:24:29 - 00:07:33:08
Speaker 1
Talk to me about that mindset a little bit, you know, in terms of seeing things as like, you know, your limitation as a, as a barrier versus like, oh, no, I'm just going to I'm just

00:07:34:12 - 00:08:00:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, part of it being being born with a limb difference, you know, or a disability such as this. Your brain, you almost do it unconsciously, right? You modify and adapt, but you're doing it from the age of, you know, of birth. And so your brain overtakes that kind of trial error without even thinking.

00:08:00:00 - 00:08:32:22
Speaker 1
And so a lot of growing up was learning how to do things, how to pull on a sock, how to, you know, button, my pant button, things that I didn't really go, how am I going to do this? Someone needs to teach me. Your brain just adapts, you know, to the simple things. And so it continues. You know, I played basketball, I pitched, you know, I knew that I could, you know, get a really tight strap for my glove and fast pitch and, hey, you know, I had a glove on my hand so that there was a little bit of background knowledge of, you just modify and adapt.

00:08:32:29 - 00:08:55:20
Speaker 1
But these are all, you know, tying a shoelace isn't really you know, I'm not going to to fall and deck tying a shoe, you know. But when I'm climbing, like, okay, what do I need to do? So I don't fall on deck. So I don't, you know, mess up my rappel. And so it was really like, okay, let me figure out what I need to do, you know, to belay like my break strands always here.

00:08:55:20 - 00:09:19:05
Speaker 1
So, you know, how am I going to, you know, pull in the slack, from above, you know, and pull out, raise my hand up like on that break strain. You're learning all those different techniques, and they will look slightly different than your, you know, normal, average two handed person. So my mindset I think had always been, oh, you know, the same with where there's a will, there's a way.

00:09:19:10 - 00:09:40:03
Speaker 1
And it wasn't much thought. Ice climbing the prosthetic ice tool is really where it became like, there has to be a lot of thought behind this. And you need help. I'm a very, very independent, you know, very independent kid, very independent adult with a disability. But this was definitely like, oh, I need to call in the reinforcements.

00:09:40:03 - 00:09:45:25
Speaker 1
Like, there's going to have to be a doctor involved in this. I think because I'm not older.

00:09:45:25 - 00:10:05:15
Speaker 1
Was there like a sense of, feeling handicapped when, like using a prosthetic. Like like kind of almost giving in. You're like no I like, I can do everything. You know, I'm just adapting. I'm adapting. But once you rely on this other object, whether it be a crutch or, you know, a prosthetic, in your case, like, is there kind of like, an ego attachment

00:10:07:12 - 00:10:14:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, that is a great question because I haven't really, like, shared this, but 100% like

00:10:14:06 - 00:10:41:03
Speaker 1
the first prototype we put on. And really, when I, you know, I got out to Provo, Utah and did Bridal Veil Falls with the final piece of prosthetic, the final, format. And I felt disabled. And I think with, you know, how my hand is like, I got away with it growing up, mostly being able to, you know, hide it when I was insecure and all those things.

00:10:41:03 - 00:11:15:13
Speaker 1
But this is like it's a big thing. It sticks out on my pack. Heads are turning, people are looking. I put it on like it's, you know, heavier and, you know, just learning. I really had to relearn ice climbing, having not, you know, ice climbed with two hands. And so it was kind of the duality of, oh my gosh, like prosthetics are kind of, you know, work to, you know, it's not just all the tools in your hand and go, it takes a little bit of, of time.

00:11:15:13 - 00:11:33:11
Speaker 1
And so the fact that, you know, it take me an extra minute to get ready. And I would feel like, oh, my bilayer is waiting for me there. Watch me put on my liner, put on my tool, you know, and at that time, my jackets, you know, to shove them really uptight. My shoulder and, you know, get it on and pull them down.

00:11:33:11 - 00:11:58:15
Speaker 1
And so I really felt like, oh, gosh. Like it is obvious that I'm different. Like one of these is not like the other. And it really wrestled with that for a while. Like in my mind, like I am never felt other than it makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable. But that's soon disappeared. Once, you know, you swing the tool into it to the ice.

00:11:58:15 - 00:12:16:11
Speaker 1
And as an ice climber, first climber of the season, like the stoke that fills you as an ice climber, you know it's real. And that, like, hit just like any other ice climber. I feel like when I actually, you know, swung my prosthetic into the ice and it worked and it held, I was just like, oh my. Oh, okay.

00:12:16:13 - 00:12:25:27
Speaker 1
I can I can handle that feeling of uncomfortableness as I'm learning with this tool because I'm here. I'm doing it.

00:12:26:08 - 00:12:46:29
Speaker 1
So how much of it was like. Okay, like. Wow. I'm almost like disabled in another way now because I'm having to use this tool. It's even harder to work with and I'm having to adapt to this tool versus like I'm accepting the fact that I am missing a hand and I have to use this prosthetic. And what does that mean for me as a person,

00:12:47:22 - 00:12:49:03
Speaker 2
The.

00:12:49:03 - 00:12:54:20
Speaker 1
of like honestly accept that and use a tool to aid you because, I mean, you're missing a hand, right?

00:12:55:24 - 00:12:57:01
Speaker 1
Right.

00:12:57:01 - 00:13:05:12
Speaker 1
mental kind of talk in your head that you had to kind of work through to, to really accept and work with this prosthetic outside of, just the difficulties

00:13:07:02 - 00:13:31:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure. I thought in my, you know, 30 plus years, I was over any type of insecurity about having one hand, you know, as it relates to, you know. Oh, how do people view me? How do you guys have you. Me? How do you know kids? You know, it was, graciously, like, you know, never teased out, right.

00:13:31:11 - 00:13:52:21
Speaker 1
But I definitely, you know, had people going like, okay, you know, that's that's different. I don't get it. Like, can you do this? Can you not? It was all like, can you do this? Like, are you able to it all was there deficit mind thought and people subconsciously you know not intentionally. And so I really had to be like this.

00:13:52:24 - 00:14:26:25
Speaker 1
What are people's perceptions like what is my perception? Is it going to be from a deficit mindset like, oh, can she do this? Can she climb safely? You know, can I climb safely? And it to me I wanted to become it. Come to a place where, okay, I can't hide this as easily as I can rock climbing or you know, doing the volcanoes, glacier climbing, you know, that's that's easier to hide and, you know, hiding as a kid, in high school, you know, under my binder in my pockets, you know, that was every kid has insecurities growing up.

00:14:26:25 - 00:14:51:16
Speaker 1
That's part of the human experience. Mine was just because I was missing my fingers where I was like, oh, hide it because people don't want to see that. And so this was like, oh, I can't hide it. But also, I really want to do this. Like, I feel a connection to ice climbing to where, like, that's physically impossible without this tool for me personally.

00:14:51:16 - 00:15:01:16
Speaker 1
And it's impossible for two people to climb ice without two tools. You know, it's so you, you know, had this mindset of like, well,

00:15:01:16 - 00:15:10:20
Speaker 1
everyone needs special tools to climb ice. And so mine is just, a little bit more complex

00:15:10:20 - 00:15:34:07
Speaker 1
than your, you know, average, ice tool. So I think that was kind of, you know, the mindset I went through like, oh, I didn't expect this, but I knew how to navigate out of that uncomfortableness because my goal was bigger than my insecurity, if that makes sense.

00:15:34:09 - 00:15:43:08
Speaker 1
Oh hell yeah. Yeah. I was like, can't do that. I will do that. I did do that. Yeah. So for sure.

00:15:43:16 - 00:15:54:23
Speaker 1
Nice. That's really cool. And what about you know outside of the fact that, you know, I mean ice climbing sick I get I've done it myself. Like, what about the sport, you know, calls to you, you know, because it doesn't call to everybody.

00:15:55:09 - 00:16:11:28
Speaker 1
Oh yeah.

00:16:12:01 - 00:16:40:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, for me, it was. Oh, I can access this ice in the way that, you know, two handed people can. Because when I'm rock climbing, you know, I'm using it, you know, in a crack. But there's certain cracks. You know, anything above a five, nine? Like I can't shove my stump in. I have to aid, you know, throw in a totem and, you know, slam my hand in like I have to do a little bit more.

00:16:40:03 - 00:17:01:25
Speaker 1
I have to, you know, mantle different, I cramp different. There's some climbs where it's like, if I'm not at that point where I can figure out how to do that yet, like, I feel like the walls, to the walls are bigger for me. And then when it comes to ice, so my, my, my tool swings into the same thing.

00:17:01:25 - 00:17:09:01
Speaker 1
That person swings in ice. Like I can figure out, you know, how to, you know, climb something complex. And

00:17:09:01 - 00:17:26:05
Speaker 1
what draws me to ice climbing, I think, is, you know, the there's a patience to it and there's a, you know, kind of like the stance to it. And, you know, the techniques are so vital. You know, we know the number one rule of ice climbing.

00:17:26:07 - 00:17:44:23
Speaker 1
And you know, learning. How do I move with my prosthetic, you know, to where I'm still climbing safely, but, you know, it's this beautiful, like, methodical dance. And, you know, the the focus on it and the beauty of it. And to be able to do that with a partner and swing leads,

00:17:44:23 - 00:18:04:20
Speaker 1
it just is something that, you know, the adrenaline's going, but it's this, like peaceful, like I feel at peace when I'm climbing ice, even though I know it can be a very scary, anxiety do thing thing, you know, and you know, it's, you know, high consequence type of activity as well.

00:18:04:20 - 00:18:15:20
Speaker 1
You feel like it's also, kind of the one discipline in climbing where you can almost exist on as close as possible to the even playing field as people with two hands.

00:18:16:08 - 00:18:37:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely. There. You know, as I'm getting, you know, into season after season, you know, you as everyone does you grow and you know, okay I can lead to three. No problem. I can lead the way for oh, you know, I'm just getting into the way I find that progression for me, you know, and not being a full time guide.

00:18:37:20 - 00:19:09:13
Speaker 1
You know, our full time ice climber. You know, I'm a full time kindergarten teacher. And, you know, I like to say part time alpinist. You know, that is, a progression that's going to look different, perchance from your average two hander. You know, they may be able to you get on five on lead faster than I. And, you know, I kind of go back to this phrase I've heard before, you know, I don't know where its origins are from, but, you know, comparison is the thief of joy and ice climbing gives me so much joy.

00:19:09:13 - 00:19:27:16
Speaker 1
But if I was to really compare myself to, you know, any kind of climber, you know, not just female, but, you know, whoever climber, it's really going to steal my joy. Like, you know, I want people to provoke me and their stories and what they're getting on to be like, oh my gosh, that's so random. So happy for them and proud of them.

00:19:27:16 - 00:19:46:00
Speaker 1
Like, I want that to be something that provokes me, but not something that shuts me down or makes me, you know, want to compare and like, oh, I'm not like that. You know, my progression will look different. You know, I can't, you know, match tools and switch and hang one over my arm, you know. And where I place screws is dominantly left handed.

00:19:46:00 - 00:20:10:12
Speaker 1
Like there's times where, you know, I'm able to place the screw here or here just with, you know, depending on the formation of the ice and whatnot. You know, I can get really creative and in a safe way, but I will claim different to my posture or, you know, within the constraints of, you know, what is the correct safe posture, you know, with your, you know, crampons and heels down and all that stuff.

00:20:10:12 - 00:20:40:28
Speaker 1
But at the same time, you know, I'll be able to, you know, show the press how to. My arm is at a different angle. You know, I don't have that kind of wrist. Like I'm going in with, you know, my shoulder, my back, my abs and knowing, like. And that's just going to be different, but it's not impossible, you know.

00:20:41:00 - 00:21:20:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure, for sure. So, you know, I feel like I'm in power. I'm there like I'm doing this with two handed people and it's working and I'm swinging leads with partners with two hands, and they're just like, oh, this feels like any other partner I have. Like, this is great. You belay just fine. You do. And so, you know, the more I do with partners especially, you know, friends that are guides or, you know, full time, you know, sponsored athletes, it's really I think that is the part that feels so empowering is I'm not just, you know, crag in and doing it, but you know, I'm getting to go on, you know, expeditions getting

00:21:20:05 - 00:21:44:25
Speaker 1
to go on, you know, trips out here in Washington around the country with partners. And I'm not like the weak link or I'm not like, babysat. I get to play my equal role. And this ice tool allows me to, you know, be on that equal playing field in the, in a sense. And so that's super is empowering.

00:21:44:25 - 00:21:57:21
Speaker 1
And I'm like, man, it didn't exist before. I wanted it to. And now it does.

00:21:57:21 - 00:22:07:14
Speaker 1
of this prosthetic in the first place. So you, you know, back to kind of earlier in our conversation, you, you were in this, you know, three day course, you saw the ice climbing. You're like, wow, okay.

00:22:07:14 - 00:22:16:27
Speaker 1
Like, I literally can't do that. I need help, I need, you know, you are. It seems like you already had the vision. You're like, I need a prosthetic. I need an ice tool strapped to

00:22:17:29 - 00:22:21:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:21:03 - 00:22:23:17
Speaker 1
think a lot of people might be in that situation.

00:22:23:17 - 00:22:38:01
Speaker 1
They're just like, I can't do it, you know? Like, that's it. End of the road. You know? Like, I'm not really going to pursue that because, you know, I can't. So, you know, we've already kind of established, you know, that's not your mindset. You know, have the can't will and did.

00:22:38:28 - 00:22:41:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.

00:22:41:01 - 00:22:46:11
Speaker 1
you can't do that immediately goes straight to the I'm going to do it. And so how did we get

00:22:47:15 - 00:22:49:01
Speaker 1
Uhhuh.

00:22:49:01 - 00:22:58:26
Speaker 1
this prosthetic. What doctors did you use. You know, whether were there other athletes in this space that were kind of doing it and yeah, bring us to the current prototype that we're at.

00:23:00:14 - 00:23:18:27
Speaker 1
I send professional recording equipment to every guest to ensure that you get top tier audio and video quality, and those costs add up. Right now, the show is completely ad free and I would love to keep it that way. So have you been to join the climbing majority and want to not only help me cover shipping costs, but keep this podcast ad free?

00:23:19:00 - 00:23:33:26
Speaker 1
Consider joining our Patreon with as little as $3 a month. You can help support the growth of this show. You can find the link in our show notes or head to Patreon.com Slash the Climbing Majority podcast. That's Patreon.com slash the Climbing Majority

00:23:33:26 - 00:23:34:05
Speaker 1
podcast.

00:23:34:05 - 00:24:00:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I kind of saw that picture of Mo was like. All right, it's been done. I've seen lower limb prosthetic x, you know, where there's crampons attached. And I was like, well, you know, it exists for other aspects of Glacier Rock ice. And so, you know, I know it's going to it's not cookie cutter like prosthetics are not one size fits all, you know.

00:24:00:24 - 00:24:22:16
Speaker 1
And so the feelers went out, you know, on socials and text messages. And I was just like anyone who could, you know, anyone that had any connection. I was like, listen, I'm a, you know, a climber that needs a prosthetic, but there's going to be a very sharp tool at the end of it. And I'm going to climb up very steep ice.

00:24:22:18 - 00:24:51:06
Speaker 1
And it's a very dangerous concept, I think to most people I get that, but I still need it done. And so who's willing to, you know, support me in that? And incredibly, this random connection of of my aunt living next door for like, 20 years to a prosthetic doctor. Yeah. Out in Fife, you know, and, he owned, Washington Prosthetics Company.

00:24:51:08 - 00:25:14:21
Speaker 1
He's, you know, now retired and, has sold that company and, you know, still, huge supporter and whatnot. So the he texted me and was like, hey, I just had a conversation with your aunt. She said, you're looking for a prosthetic to do ice climbing. My first question is, what is ice climbing? And I was like, all right, all right.

00:25:14:24 - 00:25:34:17
Speaker 1
That's step one. A doctor who actually wants to hear me out. So I drove over to, from Tacoma to Fife, and I walked in his house, sat down. I was like, good to meet you. I want to develop an ice tool to climb. I'm not just looking to, you know, top rope, explaining what topper was like.

00:25:34:17 - 00:26:06:02
Speaker 1
You know, I want to actually lead on ice. And, you know, here's a video. Let's let's pull up YouTube. Here's a man named Wil Gad. He's very good at ice climbing, and he's done it for a very long time. And the man was like, oh, okay, this guy looks nice. And we're watching the videos and kind of teaching him what ice climbing is and how the prosthetics, you know, should work based on, like, hey, here's how a person with two hands swings, you know, the tools and, you know, here's everything you I kind of need to think about.

00:26:06:02 - 00:26:34:27
Speaker 1
And, he said, well, I want to do this for you. And we both kind of knew insurance would, not approve. It is not something that gets insured these days, you know, a very sharp. Yeah, yeah. They're like, wait, what?

00:26:34:29 - 00:27:02:19
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. For for sure, for sure. And so, out of the, you know, graciousness and curiosity of his heart as an inventor and someone who saw, you know, a girl in need that, you know, really wasn't going to be able to finish this course without that. And, you know, this, I knew the ice module was going to be, you know, that next year as I signed up in for this intermediate course.

00:27:02:19 - 00:27:29:08
Speaker 1
And I was like, I have a year and I have to get on this. Otherwise I'm not going to be able to do that module. And he just started to, you know, to draw and build and get creative with me. And we, you know, scoured, eBay or, the Craigslist for old ice tools because we were like, well, we don't know how many we're going to have to chop up and practice with.

00:27:29:08 - 00:28:00:18
Speaker 1
And, you know, I learned the entire world of, you know, prosthetic making from the molding and the casting. You know, there's so many times he's casting my arm and and, you know, cutting it off and you're like, you know, they'll cut my hair off. And it was it was such an incredible process to see it go from nonexistent to, you know, a one, you know, a prototype we had with a really old gravel and then to go into a petzel no mix.

00:28:00:18 - 00:28:15:15
Speaker 1
And, and the final product and the fact that that final product has lasted and has been durable, you know, it hasn't broken on a root like it's it's just it's been really cool.

00:28:15:15 - 00:28:26:26
Speaker 1
you have now? Is this the first one that you ended up testing by climbing on it? Or were there models beforehand that you kind of took out and were like, oh, no, it didn't work, you know, but what, like, was there a trial and error process

00:28:28:09 - 00:29:06:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. The, the one that he made outside of this like finished product was a very rusted gravel. Old old old Navy their first model edit connected to. It's like a clear cast because he really wanted to before they do the final carbon fiber or expensive version, you know, they have these clear plastic molds and he's like, it'll be that same format, all that same measurement that matches your hand, your wrist, your, you know, the stump that will be good enough to go and swing because he's like, I want you to fit.

00:29:06:20 - 00:29:28:19
Speaker 1
How does it swing? How does your back feel like? Is there pain holding up a tool while you're doing your thing? And the course started with, the Coleman Deming ceramics out at Mount Baker, you know, so it's, you know, very, you know, Glacier, you know, near vertical glacier ice. And we're top roping and I'm just like, okay, you know, a swing.

00:29:28:19 - 00:29:52:12
Speaker 1
It's in. And, you know, learning all the the techniques of ice climbing, you know, the 101 and my very first time and realizing like, oh, okay. Like this, this worked. You know, I want it to be a little, you know, shorter or I need the, you know, the tool. When I get a real tool, it'll be marked a little bit more and that maybe will help my body feel, you know, more even keeled.

00:29:52:14 - 00:30:13:01
Speaker 1
So incredibly, one, you know, like mini version prototype. And then the next final version is still the one that I'm climbing on what I one day love technology to get even better and have some of the weight taken off. Sure. But,

00:30:13:05 - 00:30:14:12
Speaker 1
That's cool. That's that's

00:30:18:06 - 00:30:47:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. Oh, us to us to. Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. For sure. I was like, I mean, it just was a pretty surprise really quick, you know, a probably about a year and a half. You know, he ships everything to, you know, this kind of prosthetic factory. And then they ship it back and, you know, this, this, that and the other to kind of puzzle piece it together.

00:30:47:08 - 00:31:18:25
Speaker 1
And so it's not just coming out of his garage or his office in, you know, Washington it's going to, you know, a place in Ohio. And then it comes back. And so, you know, about a year later, we had, you know, what is the final version? And then, I had a buddy that, he was when I first got into the course, you know, you go on backcountry.com and you're like, okay, I have to buy these things called crampons, and I have to buy, you know, a harness and and rock and this.

00:31:18:25 - 00:31:45:03
Speaker 1
And then my buddy was the person that pops up on the Chad's like, hey, I'm here to help you. What are you getting into? And I was like, I'm taking a course. What do I need to buy? Fast forward, you know, for years, for friends, ironically and I've climbed together and I was like, hey, I want to come out to Provo, Utah, where you live and do ice on this prosthetic.

00:31:45:03 - 00:32:07:29
Speaker 1
Would you teach me? You know, he was a very good climber with, you know, decades of experience. And he was like, the prosthetic is all done, like prototype. Make the final product. Let's go. Let's do it. And we went out to bridal veils and swing ring and on it and realizing like, oh my goodness, we're at the part of this whole like can't will did a cycle.

00:32:15:03 - 00:32:22:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yes.

00:32:32:12 - 00:32:37:23
Speaker 1
Love it, love it. I'm all about show and tell, you know, kindergarten teacher in me.

00:32:37:23 - 00:33:02:29
Speaker 1
So first off, this is the liner. So it's, you know, silicone based, and I'll have it inside out, kind of like this. And in the cold, you know, it does get kind of cold. And so as I'm putting on my harness, my harness is on all my gears on, you know, just like we put our gloves on the sides of the inner inner jacket to warm them up and have an extra pair when you're on route.

00:33:03:02 - 00:33:33:06
Speaker 1
I'll fold this up and I'll tuck it underneath my arm. And so it's make my body heat is starting to heat it up to a level where it's warm going on my hand and not cold. And that's just, you know, something I do to make sure my entire stump and, you know, hand is I'm never going to like a dangerous cold point, you know, like, if you were to climb without gloves on, your hands are going to get cold, you know, but, so.

00:33:33:09 - 00:33:44:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Right. You know, and it's very flexible. And then, you know, I'll just slide it on. There's kind of an upper part, you know, I'll slide it.

00:33:44:09 - 00:34:16:27
Speaker 1
It is, I don't know, I don't know all I know. Right. Rise. Yeah. So it goes all the way up like this. And, you know, the hardest part, for prosthetic doctors. Alina, you're like, this is kind of a universal one size. And so when you lose a leg, lose an arm, the way that the doctors will operate, for the most part, is to make it a nice uniform to rounded shape, because the liners aren't custom in that sense.

00:34:16:27 - 00:34:33:05
Speaker 1
And so it's, you know, one, stump that it goes over. Yeah. But my problem is, you know, as you can see, you know, my wrist is a lot skinnier than, you know, the part of my hand, like, obviously for anyone. And so.

00:34:33:07 - 00:34:35:20
Speaker 2
Usually.

00:34:35:23 - 00:34:39:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:34:39:04 - 00:35:06:26
Speaker 1
Pinky, I can move it slightly independently here if I really think. But for the most part, it's like this. So essentially what I, you know, tell my kindergartners or inquisitive adults, it's kind of like having your hand like this and just learning how to okay, how do I tell my shoe, how do I, you know, and and I'm, I'm really able to when I'm climbing, like, you know, I'm crimping on this, I'm crimping on my wrist.

00:35:06:29 - 00:35:16:24
Speaker 1
You know, there's a gym, years ago, you know, I had the highest pull up count, you know, 31 in a row, no kipping.

00:35:17:01 - 00:35:18:00
Speaker 1
This isn't CrossFit

00:35:18:00 - 00:35:33:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Just in case anyone you know wanted regular, so, you know, I'll be able to pull up like this on my wrist. And so the the strength and the ability is there, but obviously, you know, you're.

00:35:33:18 - 00:35:59:13
Speaker 1
I needed something that was actually going to hold on to the skin. And if it was too, too skinny here, then it's too tight here. And I didn't want to to like, press my, you know, whatever part of my phalanges that I have still the bone here, it's very easy to kind of move these around. And once in a while, you know, if I'm rock climbing, I can actually jam these.

00:35:59:13 - 00:36:37:00
Speaker 1
Kind of like, if you jam your thumb and you're like, oh, it's jammed, and it swells and it's painful, I can jam my thumb and my pinky oddly, you know, with the 1 or 2 joints that I do have. Yeah. So once this goes on, I pretty much leave it on for the entire climb because what I found is I just gained a finger and so, you know, I can either, you know, flip the metal bird to my partner who's giving me crap about something, you know, or, when I'm at a, at the anchor and I'm building anchor, I need to get a knot out.

00:36:37:02 - 00:37:00:09
Speaker 1
It's really like. Oh, sweet. I just have an extra finger. So it doesn't really kind of get in the way. And so it'll be just kind of like this. I had a friend take my, you know, jackets, Gore-Tex jacket, a base layer, and actually put a waterproof zipper right in the arm. So I unzip the one layer, pull it back, unzip the other layer, pull it back.

00:37:00:09 - 00:37:28:20
Speaker 1
And so you don't have this bulk, it's just pulled back. And it made the process of getting my tool on and getting ready to climb 2 or 3 minutes faster. You know, just zip, zip, put it on close, zip ready to go. And so that has been, I think another part of me feeling like I belong, like I'm equal here because it's just less of like weight for me or I'm slower.

00:37:28:20 - 00:37:56:28
Speaker 1
You just don't want to be the slow burner. Doesn't matter if you're disabled or not. You know when when this is your passion, when, you know you love doing this. You want to. Yeah, absolutely. So it was a big deal for, the sleeve says, Willow Wood Alpha classic. I assume that is the company that makes the liners for prosthetic companies.

00:37:57:01 - 00:38:21:13
Speaker 1
And there's a, you know, old school QR code. I guess I could find out more info should I ever need it. I accidentally left it on a. I know, right? That would be great. Yeah. So props to Willow Wood. They make great layers. And so this is the body of my I still it's it's a big boy.

00:38:21:15 - 00:38:51:08
Speaker 1
It is when I weighed it just under, for about 4 or 5 pounds. And so it is, you know, a heavier than a normal ice tool, but it's not crazy heavy wear, you know, I really feel it on my pack or I really feel it on my arm. Just like your average person, you know, you have your hands up for so long, you know, and a good way to rest, you know, putting your arm down and kind of shaking out, you know, grabbing your tool.

00:38:51:11 - 00:39:13:15
Speaker 1
We'll I'll just have to make sure that my left is really solid, you know, and I'll remove my entire tool and just kind of hang my arm down and, you know, and shake it out that way and put it back up. And so that hasn't been strikingly different than how a person with two hands needs to, you know, get the blood circulating.

00:39:13:17 - 00:39:16:04
Speaker 1
I just don't do it as much because I don't get

00:39:16:04 - 00:39:31:19
Speaker 1
I don't have to grip. And so I don't feel, you know, screaming barfi is on one side. Silver lining. I'm not going to get pumped out when I'm placing a screw. Silver lining. You know, it's really hanging on my my joint,

00:39:31:19 - 00:39:37:18
Speaker 1
you know, it's just, you know, wanting the blood to, you know, go back down every once in a while.

00:39:37:19 - 00:40:07:09
Speaker 1
So you'll see. I'll pull it back like that. Maybe the lighting there is a white, kind of connect deer in this. And so you'll hear it. I'll get close to the mic. So you hear this kind of like locking system. So it's this locking mechanism. And I didn't have to undo it. Sometimes I have to undo this piece because we realized my wrist is smaller than my stump.

00:40:07:09 - 00:40:38:10
Speaker 1
And so if this is the size of my wrist, well, how do I get my my hand, my palm, my stump through there? And so he actually kind of cut off and it opens. And all I have to do is a quick open, get it in and then pull it tight. And so amazingly, as we pull it tight and I cinch this Velcro down, it almost is like my arm is, extra secured in there.

00:40:38:11 - 00:41:02:03
Speaker 1
You know, my stump couldn't come out. But with the locking mechanism and that silicone, when you pull on it, it kind of cinches down on your skin. So that's why it has to touch my skin. I can't have, you know, a long sleeve base layer under it, that base layer, if it's really cold, like in Alaska when I climb, it has to be over the prosthetic, liner.

00:41:02:06 - 00:41:15:14
Speaker 1
So my skin is always on that, material, because when I pull it, it doesn't go anywhere. Like it just latches down, on my skin, if that makes sense. And so that.

00:41:17:22 - 00:41:30:06
Speaker 1
you wrap on the bottom so that, you know, your, your, the width of your wrist and your palm is what's keeping it from sliding. But it sounds like the the attachment points at the head with the, with the screw or the, the latch joint.

00:41:30:08 - 00:41:36:12
Speaker 1
And it's actually like a suction cup almost through the silicone and the formation of your, your skin

00:41:37:10 - 00:41:46:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And the questions I've gotten, you know in the videos I'll post on social media is, you know, how don't you fall out of it. Like how do you stay in. But

00:41:46:20 - 00:41:56:28
Speaker 1
when you think about ice climbing a gear not just like dangling off our tools, if we are, it's because our, you know, feet popped out.

00:41:57:01 - 00:42:17:05
Speaker 1
That's not good. So, you know, I'm trying to explain to people like your tools are really, you know what? Keep you attached to the ice and balance you. But it's your feet that you're, you know, climbing with, and you're moving up with your feet and just swinging in. And so, you know, it's never really I'll feel it more on, you know, five or higher.

00:42:17:05 - 00:42:44:06
Speaker 1
Like I'll feel kind of more of the tension of being straight and your in gravity just pulling down. But it's really made me have to be good at my feet because I want my feet to be, you know, what's climbing and not just, like, pulling myself up by my tools, you know?

00:42:44:08 - 00:42:53:05
Speaker 1
And I have. Yes. Yeah.

00:42:53:07 - 00:43:17:08
Speaker 1
Right. No, I yeah, I've done, you know, mixed climbing, and even, you know, I was dragging out of Washington away, you know, an area called Wayne's World. It's a, you know. Yeah, yeah. Great, man. I know he's. I watched the news. Great. Yeah. So he has set up this, like, beautiful crag for dry tooling. And, you know, when I first went out there years ago,

00:43:17:08 - 00:43:27:15
Speaker 1
you know, I'm climbing on this route and, you know, I pop out, you know, with my left tool and this one had a solid placement and it was kind of like overhang underneath.

00:43:27:15 - 00:43:48:08
Speaker 1
And so it's not like my blazer caught me, but my tool caught me. So my tools hanging there and I'm just hanging by it and to the point where it's like, you know, I'm just like dangling there. And I'm like, okay, Eric, like, lower me. Like, I can't, I can't reach the other you like, you know, you have to like, pull me up or do whatever.

00:43:48:08 - 00:44:22:18
Speaker 1
And he's like, that's interesting. And just kind of like letting me hang there and watching. He's like, yeah, you're really stuck there, And so it really works. I can hang off of this. And, it almost, you know, gives a little bit of, of peace of mind of, you know, I'm not going to accidentally let go or, you know, it catches me, you know, for the extra, you know, couple seconds to get reoriented, like, oh, you know, one foot, you know, but, again, you know, ice climbing, you you just don't even want to be in a place where, you know, you're like, oh, I'm going to follow each time, but I'll

00:44:22:18 - 00:44:27:05
Speaker 1
be fine. Like, you know, that's that's don't fall is the mindset.

00:44:27:05 - 00:44:54:25
Speaker 1
But yeah, so this is carbon fiber and then it has a titanium, you know, connector piece with some steel that he for extra security riveted the pencil nomics. And you know what's really awesome? Taking the Nomex when you take the grip tape off where the handle is, it's just a couple screws that are connecting that handle, you know, to the shaft.

00:44:54:25 - 00:45:20:14
Speaker 1
And so he unscrewed the handles, popped them off, popped this inside. Did you know all the connection connection pieces. And then when I hold out my other tool and this they go exactly the same. Like. No. And we did not plan for that work. Oh maybe we'll have to like cut. You know, we wanted it at the end to be even like that.

00:45:20:14 - 00:45:49:14
Speaker 1
But we realized once it went in just how it it worked out. It is super dead on. Just an ironic piece to it. So when you look at the sides of the titanium piece and I think this is for, you know, other prosthetics people with, you know, lower limb prosthetics, the Allen wrench, you know, that I always carry with me, actually.

00:45:49:20 - 00:46:22:04
Speaker 1
Well, turn it either this way or that way or sideways. And also, I can loosen all of them and pop it off. And so eventually, if I wanted a tool that had, you know, a thumbtack or, if I was able to, you know, upgrade and have a different prosthetic, I, I could knowing that this can pop off, you know, it'd be cool to have, like a fly fishing rod or some people said, like, how about a machete?

00:46:22:04 - 00:46:48:11
Speaker 1
And, you know, I don't really have a use for that, but I guess that would be cool. But for the most part, the fact that, you know, I can change the angle of it is really helpful for, you know, Washington out here again, you know, it's those roots on the volcanoes where, you know, it's not vertical waterfall ice, you know, and maybe I don't want, you know, a hard angle.

00:46:48:13 - 00:47:11:16
Speaker 1
But I don't have another tool like, this is my one tool, you know, what can I do? So there's a little bit of play with it. And that's pretty awesome. And so my first you'll see an hour of the camera goes backwards on this but says can't will did I had a weekend out in Bozeman. And a guy somebody may know him.

00:47:11:18 - 00:47:28:16
Speaker 1
He's kind of claimed, you know, some cool things around the world. Conrad Anker he was like, let me see this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I've heard his name once, but he's like, come on over here. I want to see it. And, you know, we kind of talked about, you know, this was my first or second season with it.

00:47:28:16 - 00:47:34:16
Speaker 1
And you know, that's really where that can't well did statement came from because he,

00:47:34:16 - 00:47:51:01
Speaker 1
I said, okay, you know, my life motto is, you know, hold fast. All storms pass. Like what's yours. And I was like, well, put me on the spot here. I don't know. You know, I can't I couldn't do this and I will and you know, just this like can't will did popped in and he's like, that's great.

00:47:51:01 - 00:48:09:01
Speaker 1
Can't will did like there's your life motto and you know, you kind of build in you know hold fast. And then his creative work with the cat. Well did and then just, you know, made sure I had my name on my tools and, you know, I, as a kindergarten teacher, tell my students to put their name on everything and their coats and everything.

00:48:09:01 - 00:48:23:09
Speaker 1
So I was like, oh, that's fitting for a teacher. So it's, Yeah, a good reminder to, you know, I look at that and say, man, cat. Well, did all right. The did part feels good,

00:48:23:21 - 00:48:38:04
Speaker 1
you know. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's, you know, when I'm again climbing and swinging leads, you know, I it's all my carry tool and I'm doing my thing and then I pull it back out, put it on and take off.

00:48:38:04 - 00:49:03:09
Speaker 1
So the more seasons that I'm able to do not just bragging, but, you know, alpine routes, multipage long days. You know, I've really gotten to, you know, figure out how do I use this, how do I use it efficiently. But that's just kind of like anyone with new gear, you know, or when you're a brand new climber and you're given a set of crampons and you're like, how do I put these on quickly?

00:49:03:15 - 00:49:17:25
Speaker 1
Like there's obviously growth and experience that comes with any sport you do. So I feel like, you know, six around six maybe this is my seventh season in yeah. It's starting to feel like second nature.

00:49:18:23 - 00:49:44:25
Speaker 1
I'd like to, jump into. We've kind of talked about them a little bit already. Is like some of the differences that or the adaptations that you have with the prosthetic and in relation to, to climbing. And I think the first one that came to mind was the unilateral swinging techniques that would be involved. So talk to us a little bit about like, the differences between a normal swing and, prosthetic

00:49:44:25 - 00:49:47:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So,

00:49:47:05 - 00:50:11:08
Speaker 1
you know, when you're doing a swing, you know, like, here's 100, you know, maybe like 80 or really, you know, doing that wrist flick or some people talk about, you know, swinging it around your pinky. And, you know, obviously I'm doing that with my left hand, you know, the normal way. But with my right, it's really you know, coming down, and my shoulder, my abs are engaged.

00:50:11:11 - 00:50:34:01
Speaker 1
And having to, you know, how do I fill my tool like, I was able to at the start of climbing. Go to your a, with a group called Paradox Sports. And, that's an organization that really supports disabled climbers, you know, blind climbers, deaf climbers, climbers with different limb differences and gets them on ice or gets them on rock.

00:50:34:01 - 00:50:55:09
Speaker 1
And so we were there at the event, and you know, I'm climbing kind of for my, you know, first time outside of that Provo first time. And there was a climber, you know, who's now become, you know, a dear friend, Andreas Marin. And he's watching how it hits the ice and the angle, because the angle is different than if you, you know, kind of wrist flick it.

00:50:55:12 - 00:51:15:16
Speaker 1
And he's like, okay, hey, I'm seeing how it's hitting. And the top part is hitting. And so we're, we're gonna, I'm going to shave it down a different way. And this is how I think you should, you know, file your, your tool specific to, you know, the angle you're coming down because that's going to give you a stronger stick.

00:51:15:16 - 00:51:48:10
Speaker 1
And especially if your goal is to lead on ice, you know, you're going to want to be more efficient with your swing. So, you know, I'm learning like, okay, that's a technique. Like the way I will, you know, shave my tool and keep it sharp is specific to how this right prosthetic comes down on the ice. And, you know, so there's that kind of commodification, if you will, or, you know, just acknowledgment that, okay, it's it's at a different angle.

00:51:48:10 - 00:52:02:01
Speaker 1
The the math is different. You know, the word, you know, the swing, the velocity and, the angles of everything.

00:52:02:03 - 00:52:13:20
Speaker 1
Right.

00:52:13:23 - 00:52:38:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Good question. No, it's kind of like robot, you know, my kindergarten students will joke about like, oh, you're a robot. And when I kind of show them this and give them the vocabulary and and honestly, it is kind of like a robotic thing. It it doesn't have the angle of my wrist to kind of be more flexible to cause that.

00:52:38:07 - 00:53:20:09
Speaker 1
It's just a one motion. I think there will be times where, when I go to move up, you know, when you're moving up, your wrist is moving, but the tool is not really moving when I go up. Well, when my wrist is moving, this whole tool is moving it tilting forward. So the head of my tool, you know, especially if I, you know, have it hooked on, you know, I picked out raw, you know, or just depending on the health of the ice or, you know, if it's hero ice and I have a really good stick, like, and then the ice maybe comes out forward, you know, above it, it'll really

00:53:20:09 - 00:53:46:05
Speaker 1
push into the ice and, and I'll be like, oh, I can't really pull it out. And so I had to kind of like, okay, get my arm back and then pull, pull up. And so, it's just remembering you know, I'm so used to how this tool acts on ice and the little areas where, you know, okay, you know, that angle, it's going to get caught.

00:53:46:07 - 00:54:06:14
Speaker 1
And, and then I just work around that I'm able to like, okay, if I'm going to take a big step up because I got some really nice high feet, you know, kind of stemmed out, you know, hips in. I may have to, you know, make sure I have a high enough tool, and a good enough tool that, you know, when I step up, I'm popping up out of it.

00:54:06:14 - 00:54:31:09
Speaker 1
And so I just don't, like, get myself stuck where it's like, okay, now I'm in this awkward, you know, high step move. So, yeah, there's there's little pieces like that. The more you get in, especially when it comes to, you know, funky Alaska ice or, you know, anything above a four where, you know, the average climber. And yeah, it's not just for sure.

00:54:31:09 - 00:54:57:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Not just a big face, but you're going to have to get, you know, creative. And and that's what kind of makes me excited. You know, I'm, I'm in this realm where, you know, man, I really want to push the limits on. You know what this can do? Not just, you know, how high can I lead? You know, again, with my progression in leading, you know, I'll probably do a lot more, you know, following on day five.

00:54:57:17 - 00:55:20:16
Speaker 1
Six. Like getting into mix climbing is really fun. And, last month was with a partner. And, you know, we put up a mixture, a brand new mixed row. And I got my to experience my first partnership for out in, Cody and Cottonwood Canyon. And that is just so fun. So I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm pushing the limits of what I thought possible.

00:55:20:16 - 00:55:39:15
Speaker 1
Like, I don't know if, you know, a prosthetic person, you know, has an A on a mixed role like, well, I'm, I'm a part of that now. And we got to name it, you know, adaptive reclamation was the name, and there's a whole story behind that. But he was like throwing that, you know, like you're adaptive.

00:55:39:15 - 00:55:59:10
Speaker 1
And now there's a name on a route related to you know, my experience, being a part of it and climbing. And so there's scenes like that where I'm like, this is so cool, like, where can I where's the line where this doesn't go? I don't know where it is yet. You know, I want to find it in a safe way.

00:55:59:12 - 00:56:04:06
Speaker 1
You know, but.

00:56:04:08 - 00:56:30:23
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:56:30:26 - 00:56:43:16
Speaker 2
Give me.

00:56:43:18 - 00:56:45:14
Speaker 2
Okay.

00:56:45:17 - 00:57:07:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. For sure. And, you know, my motivation is always, you know, to identify, like, hey, there's there's risk. And so no question is off limits when another person is considering their safety. You know, I'm not going to be like, hey, like, you know, I'm I'm disabled. Like, don't question me. Like, no, man. Our lives are tied, you know, and sometimes there's thousands of feet below us.

00:57:07:24 - 00:57:25:00
Speaker 1
And so if you get nervous and you want to ask something like, please, you know, like that, that's for both of our lives. And so there's you know, that caveat. But, you know, really I've noticed, you know, it's it's not asking like, can you can you do this? It's how do you do this? And you know, I talked about that deficit mindset.

00:57:25:00 - 00:57:52:14
Speaker 1
And so in this day and age in the last ten years, you know, there has been a a bigger shift maybe in society as a whole. But you know, my, my life is really in climbing. And so that's the world that I see a lot in the interactions and how they've evolved. And I see a lot more like empathy, curiosity and belief in someone that looks different than you, like, oh, you know, they probably can do it.

00:57:52:14 - 00:58:10:15
Speaker 1
It doesn't matter what they look like, they're going to do it a certain way or a different way, like let me learn. And so all the partners I've had have they're like, oh, how do you do that? You know, how do you build a and showing them like, okay, this is how we belay and, you know, this is how my breaks friends are already on there.

00:58:10:15 - 00:58:30:29
Speaker 1
But, you know, those are the checks and those are the, the things that you want any partner to learn. You know, people with two hands drop people all the time. Almost more than people with one hand. You know, we're we are extra. You know, I got this, you know, part of it's, you know, proving something and part of it is just know we can do this.

00:58:30:29 - 00:58:57:19
Speaker 1
We're not, you know, that different. And so I think there's that element like, hey, I may need an extra minute or two in the way that, you know, I'm taking it on and taking it off. But it it's not taking, you know, ten minutes every pitch where it's like, okay, you know, ten minutes, eight pitches later, that adds up like that is a questionable like, okay, how do we work around that?

00:58:57:21 - 00:59:23:18
Speaker 1
Am I the best partner for the rule based on conditions or the whether or not, you know, that hasn't really been that an issue at all. And, so I think that's, you know, the cool part is I went through the whole process to learn how to modify and adapt safely for myself as a climber. And the more years you add on climbing, the more experienced and proficient you get, regardless of how you work.

00:59:23:20 - 00:59:54:18
Speaker 1
And so at this point, you know, it's easy to be like, hey, this is how we do things. Here it is. Let's go. And I've had a lot of partners be like, rad, let's go. Bellamy. You know, once in a while I'll be like, why don't you be my rope gun on this? You know, it's a bulge or an overhang or, you know, there's certain things where I'm like, the probability of safety is higher if you lead it, but I really am pushing to be that equal partner.

00:59:54:18 - 01:00:01:09
Speaker 1
You know, that's my my heart. Just like anyone. That's my heart. You know, I want to be an an equal partner.

01:00:11:22 - 01:00:25:00
Speaker 2
With you.

01:00:27:00 - 01:00:29:22
Speaker 1
If you've been enjoying the climbing majority, please rate.

01:00:29:22 - 01:00:32:12
Speaker 2
And review us wherever you get your podcasts.

01:00:34:00 - 01:01:01:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I've I've thought about that. But, you know, I've taken, you know, rescue courses and. Excuse me, in with a gun. And I haven't found anything, you know, even if it's like, if I had to, you know, bandage something or carry or lift or pull, you know, that I'm really able to do you so much, you know, I can tie my shoe.

01:01:01:12 - 01:01:20:24
Speaker 1
And so it's just a different, you know, I'm holding something down differently. There really isn't anything I can't do except pick up a pen and write my name. If I was desperate enough, slap some duct tape on with a pen and write my name. And so I've really thought about that. Like, what can I not do? What can't I do?

01:01:20:24 - 01:01:55:23
Speaker 1
I, I don't really know. And especially when it comes to, you know, rescuing someone, lowering someone, you know, I've gone through all that training. That's something that, you know, I teach in the mountaineers. You know, I, I've, I've years past graduated. You know, it's been years and now I'm a climb leader instructor. And so, you know, for this volunteer style organization, my skills are, you know, being renewed every year because I'm just going and and reteaching new climbers, climbers that now want to learn how to lead climb rock rescue.

01:01:55:23 - 01:02:19:20
Speaker 1
It was such a big part of it. There's so many systems. And we really talk about how, you know, if you don't use this information, you use it, you, lose it. Right? And so, you know, these are our skills that are perishable. And I feel like that is a risk of any climber to go, oh, and I know, I know how to do rock rescue.

01:02:19:20 - 01:02:37:10
Speaker 1
I know how to do this and that. But like, if you're not doing it on a yearly basis, same with crevasse rescue. They're perishable skills, you may forget. And so for me, it's even more so. Like, I definitely want to make sure I know how to do things because I'm I'm doing it holding it differently, but always safely.

01:02:38:16 - 01:02:43:13
Speaker 2
And and.

01:02:43:13 - 01:03:00:04
Speaker 1
when you start doing big stuff in the mountains and it would just be something I would think I'd be like. Like, you know, am I limited in a certain way? You know, like, how do I adapt in that way? So it's really cool to hear that, you know, one, you've thought about all that and too, that, you know, once again, it's the can't will did and

01:03:02:01 - 01:03:05:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Thank.

01:03:05:08 - 01:03:22:09
Speaker 1
of like your journey of ice climbing. You've got this prosthetic, you know, you've gone to Bridal Veil, you've gone past the can't I, you know, I've found how to ice climb. So what was the next can't after already choosing the fact that you've gotten on the other

01:03:24:03 - 01:03:56:29
Speaker 1
Right. Yeah. I learned, you know, last April that this can't will did is not linear. It's actually cyclical. And you can, in fact go back to can't. And that threw me more than anything where I was just like oh my gosh, I, I hate being disabled. You know, I was out on the this toothless April and, Finishing up the crux route following, you know, our a buddy wanted to, you know, really lead that pitch.

01:03:56:29 - 01:04:28:03
Speaker 1
And he had been kind of the photographer, for, you know, the first half as I was like, yeah, go for it. You're so stoked. And thank goodness he did, because I'm right about to top out of, you know, the the most crux part of this classic route. And I go to, you know, kind of oh, all my weight is now on this tool because I'm going to swing with my left and my hand with the liner just comes out all the way, and my tool is in the ice right here and my hands out of it.

01:04:28:03 - 01:05:05:14
Speaker 1
And I'm like, what? What's happening? You know, and yelling like take, take, take and realizing kind of, excuse me, this release button, you know, that, you push in hard and then it unlocks, it kind of takes out whatever that locking mechanism is on the screws and releases that had in the cold Alaskan, air snow, you know, it froze, pushed in.

01:05:06:05 - 01:05:35:05
Speaker 1
Excuse me. It's so as it freezes, pushed in, I come out of it and then realize, oh, shoot, you know, what do we do? And I get through that route, you know, there's a foot or two more. And then it turned into, you know, a slope of snow. And we just cannot get it, melt it out. You know, that release button wouldn't push, wouldn't push it any more, wouldn't release anymore.

01:05:35:07 - 01:05:54:00
Speaker 1
And I kind of was like, well, I'm done. I can't use it anymore. What do we do? And I threw a glove on wrinkle there, and the next couple pitches are just kind of, you know, Stemi and you know that that funky Alaska. I say you could probably do it with one tool and just following and, you know, really tight.

01:05:54:02 - 01:06:15:26
Speaker 1
But, you know, well, boy, you kind of, you know, tightly at the anchor and we're doing it and doing it, you know, 3 or 4 pitches, but I'm swinging with one tool and, a piece of my, you know, cartilage, bone spur, kind of the doctor surgeon or like, I, we think a piece broke off because of this swinging you had to do in this extra pull.

01:06:15:28 - 01:06:41:11
Speaker 1
And I just was not able to complete the climb. It was so much pain. I couldn't do it. We're at this final anchor, maybe with half the route to go, and I'm in tears going like, I hate being disabled. And I hadn't said that since. Maybe I was ten and this flood, that flood of emotion, realizing. I'm back to can't.

01:06:41:13 - 01:07:07:15
Speaker 1
Not only do I know that I'm different and you know I can celebrate all the accomplishments of using a prosthetic ice tool. But I'm different and there's limitations. And here's one right now that I didn't expect. You know, this malfunction or, you know, we all have to gear failure in climbing. That's normal. And, you know, my buddy Austin on the right was like this.

01:07:07:15 - 01:07:32:19
Speaker 1
Just gear failure. Like, you have gear. It failed. And you're going to figure out how to fix it, and then you can move past that. Or, you know, I don't see it as that's where it ends for me, as an adaptive climber, I can only go so far. The Alaska range is not for me or or whatever. And so that was a huge moment to where it shook me pretty hard.

01:07:32:19 - 01:08:01:08
Speaker 1
I was like, I, I can't, I'm back to can't. And in the last year, the rehab of my shoulder, game planning of okay, like, do I need, you know, kind of, a sub stance that gets put on and covers the ability for, for liquid for water to melt in and then freeze. Do I need a neoprene cover?

01:08:01:11 - 01:08:34:16
Speaker 1
I just kind of went back to the drawing board with, okay, now now, you know, what do I need to modify for, for that kind of potential problem? And I've been able to do that and this April, I'm going back with another partner to the moose's tooth because I'm at that will stage. And I am pretty damn determined, to push into the did stage and stand on the summit of the moose's tooth.

01:08:34:18 - 01:08:57:04
Speaker 1
You know, weather wise and, you know, condition root condition wise, but it's. Yeah, it's it's a good good. Okay. Well, did you sometimes go back to can't and that's not just for me in my little adaptive world, but I really find that's such a universal just like Conrad's. You know? I'm looking at it right now. Conrad Holdfast, all storms pass.

01:08:57:07 - 01:09:10:22
Speaker 1
You know, life motto sometimes you're going to go back to can't on things. But remember what comes after the will. The did and that feeling. You know, that feeling will return.

01:09:15:14 - 01:09:37:10
Speaker 1
Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean I'm describing my personality. You know, you there's elements of perfection. Is there elements of independent, hard working like I don't give up, I don't quit. If I don't quit, I win. And then realizing and I'm, I'm like, I have to quit. I'm in so much pain. I have to quit. The prosthetic literally is frozen.

01:09:37:10 - 01:09:49:25
Speaker 1
I can't I can't use it. It it it shook. It shook me. As someone who considers themselves to be highly motivated, highly successful person.

01:09:51:10 - 01:10:09:29
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was humbling in the sense of, you know, I'm with fellow partners that are some of the best climbers in the world, you know, and full time athletes and, and here I am, the weak link that I have sworn myself not to be because they don't want to be perceived. I, you know, adaptive climber is the weak link.

01:10:09:29 - 01:10:33:26
Speaker 1
I don't want that perception out there in the climbing world. I want to be seen as equal and realizing like, okay, I'm going to have unique obstacles and their attitudes towards me, I know were just that of, you know, extremely supportive and patient and like, nope, this this isn't defining you. You know, my friend was a hit.

01:10:33:26 - 01:10:54:23
Speaker 1
She she climbs all the time, you know, his partner, she climbs all the time, cries all the time in the mountains. It's okay. And she's like, yeah, yes I do, yes I do. It's true. You know this is okay. So to hear that from, you know, I think this shared experience in the mountains like we all experience failure of some kind.

01:10:54:26 - 01:11:18:00
Speaker 1
Right. And defeat or injury. And in that moment, you know, I was really my first time in a brand new range experiencing those things. And it really shook me. But then, you know, you start to identify and people share their own vulnerability with you and their experience in the mountains. And you're like, oh, okay. I'm I'm not I'm not that different.

01:11:18:08 - 01:11:40:15
Speaker 1
It really now depends on what is my perspective going to be after the fact. Am I going to give up or am I going to let this renew some resilience in me? You know?

01:11:40:17 - 01:11:47:25
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01:11:47:28 - 01:11:59:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And if you were going to go ahead.

01:11:59:24 - 01:12:02:04
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:12:02:06 - 01:12:04:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:12:04:19 - 01:12:26:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah for sure. You know, it was really hard to be like, I can't I couldn't even lift a pillow, you know, back home after the expedition, you know. But then I started, you know, I'm really into, you know, brain research and learning about the brain. And I think part of that is being in kindergarten teacher understanding their development level.

01:12:26:20 - 01:12:50:25
Speaker 1
And that helps me honestly be a more patient teacher where my daughter's prefrontal cortex is not all the way formed. So of course, you're doing this right now. And realizing like that when you do something that's hard or you fail at it, your brain, like it's learning. Like if you give up, it's the learning to give up, essentially.

01:12:50:25 - 01:13:07:27
Speaker 1
And if you push fast, fast forward through things and like, nope, I'm going to do it. I'm going to push and not give up. You're training your brain like to react to hard things like, am I going to give up when it's hard? Or am I going to push through when it's hard? Because I know I will learn.

01:13:07:27 - 01:13:28:23
Speaker 1
And you know, I definitely set all that in, you know, layman's terms. And there are, you know, better ways to describe this whole concept about the brain and the neuroplasticity and how it learns and everything. But that's what fascinates me. And that's I'm like, this is such a real world example of it. You know what I'm going through?

01:13:28:23 - 01:13:49:02
Speaker 1
Like, oh, you know, I don't want my brain to just go like, oh, that was really hard. That's obviously not going to work. Give up. And so this is, an exciting season ahead of me. And the training has been going really well. I'm feeling really strong and, you know, leading eyes and getting out. Washington has had some, you know, good eyes in the last month.

01:13:49:05 - 01:14:10:25
Speaker 1
And so it's been fun to had to sit in that well and go, oh, how can I give up?

01:14:10:27 - 01:14:35:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of what I had done in the previous almost decade, you know, it's just mountaineers and a Washington state or ice climbing friends. You know, you've become friends via Instagram or friends because of, oh, we have this mutual climbing friend. And so maybe some friends that were guides in this in that. But this was my first like, oh, this is their career.

01:14:35:22 - 01:15:16:18
Speaker 1
These people have been doing this for decades. They have so many amazing ascents and around the world, and you're really with super experienced people and, you know, the way that they, you know, just climb like, equal partners with me. And, I think it is what helped that my motivation to, you know, even with all that went on, you know, to not give up, it's because, you know, I never felt, maybe looked down upon or like, oh, you know, she's not really, you know, they were just like, oh, heck no.

01:15:16:18 - 01:15:44:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. You're going, you're going to go back. And how you did amazing. This was incredible. And dude, you like you have a prosthetic. You have one hand and you did four pitches with one tool, might I add, after you climbed half the route with a prosthetic, you continue like who has done that? And then you're like, oh yeah, yeah, I can say I've climbed, you know, five pitches of the Mrs. 2001 tool would never recommend that for anyone, ever.

01:15:44:25 - 01:16:03:24
Speaker 1
You know, but but, you know, they were able to laugh with me after the fact and realize, like, oh, no, man, like, this is, you know, this is the world and there's ups and downs and we are all experiencing it. And so it kind of levels it out of, you know, okay, these are just normal friends climbing and we're all just humans.

01:16:03:24 - 01:16:08:08
Speaker 1
We all experience the same thing, you know? Yeah.

01:16:08:08 - 01:16:13:10
Speaker 1
go pro. And what was the catalyst to being surrounded

01:16:15:15 - 01:16:44:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, I would love to, and this, you know, kind of a two year contract, you know, the North Face, this athlete development program really put me, you know, in that kind of world and dabble with it while being a full time teacher and, you know, realizing, like, how much I love, you know, climbing around the world, having climbing partners of all different backgrounds like it is something that just so motivates me.

01:16:44:00 - 01:17:09:12
Speaker 1
You learn so much about people, about, you know, cultures and this earth and the appreciation and respect and, you know, humbles you. You get all these, you know, just experiences with your heart, mind and soul. It feels like while you're climbing. And so I'm like, I love to push my boundaries and, you know, keep training hard and and going pro.

01:17:09:12 - 01:17:36:01
Speaker 1
And then at the same time, I'm just, you know, this kindergarten teacher in Washington state that loves to climb ice and rock and glacier, and I'll do it anywhere with anyone, you know, when the opportunities come. And, it's been you know what? I want to give up my full time job with benefits and retirement. And, a for sure salary and dip into the climbing world.

01:17:36:01 - 01:17:58:16
Speaker 1
That can be so fickle with sponsorships. And, you know, if you're not climbing or you're injured or, you know, kind of, you know, what do you have when you're 80? And still alive, you know, that, you know, I'm I'm a realist when it comes to that, too. And so, you know, I want to push for those opportunities and push myself and my boundaries and see what doors open up.

01:17:58:18 - 01:18:34:21
Speaker 1
But, you know, it's been I feel like I'm in a sweet spot right now, being able to go back into my classroom and share pictures of, you know what I did? Teach them about the prosthetic. You know, every June we have this, you know, kindergarten hot seat, experience where they watch, you know, videos of a professional climber or surfer or snowboarder skier, you know, any kind of outdoor, activity, you know, person that is full time and they get to share, you know, who they are.

01:18:34:21 - 01:18:52:01
Speaker 1
And then we come up with questions, and it's kindergarten. So it goes from, you know, what's your favorite color to, you know, have you ever jumped off a mountain, you know, and like, what's the worst way to die in a there's all kinds of crazy questions, you know, out of the minds of five year olds. Or sometimes I'm like, be ready for anything.

01:18:52:04 - 01:19:12:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. My they can be pretty offensive. But it comes from a good place. And my intent with that and melding my worlds as you know, having connections to just the climbing world, but then also, you know, the, the pro aspect of it. And then also being a teacher is, you know, these kids and they're so diverse in my class.

01:19:12:21 - 01:19:38:02
Speaker 1
And like, I feel like the world of climbing is getting more and more diverse. And so it's pulling people like, hey, I have kids in my classroom that, you know, totally identify with your background, with where you grew up, with what you're going through, with, you know, what you look like you want to come in in on, you know, our zoom chat and just get roasted by a bunch of five year olds, but also get mad respect from five year olds.

01:19:38:02 - 01:20:03:02
Speaker 1
And that's been fun too. So, you know, I really look forward and going like, you know, where do I want to have the most impact, not only in my own goals and aspirations, but, you know, how can that ripple effect of what's possible? Where do I have a place like I don't see anyone like me when I was a five year old just kicking ass on, you know, a mountain.

01:20:03:05 - 01:20:26:27
Speaker 1
But these five year olds, they're, you know, starting to see that. And so that's kind of cool. I'm like, I don't want to leave that world. I feel like I have such an impact. But, man, I love I love climbing in every opportunity I have. Or, you know, when I'm not teaching and I'm, I'm out there on a mountain or, you know, sharing a rope with someone.

01:20:26:29 - 01:20:34:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, we've.

01:20:34:09 - 01:21:03:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well, no, kindergarten is, kindergarten is a great form of, birth control. If you're like, I, I, I see a lot of you every day. I don't know if I want to see you, at nighttime. Also with the caveat that, you know, last June, I did get married, and he has two beautiful teenage boys, and I love them so much.

01:21:03:07 - 01:21:28:04
Speaker 1
And so I actually have become a stepmom. You know, I'm six months, in on that, and, and I thank you. I think you're, it's been so fun, you know, being a boy. Mom, I remember being young. I wanted to be a boy, mom, you know, and and I kind of get to participate in that and support their mom and their dad, and,

01:21:28:06 - 01:21:49:23
Speaker 1
But, yeah, so I feel like I get to experience the teenage years getting them through that, you know, partnering with them and their parents. And then every day in my work life is, you know, the young ones and you're teaching, but you're also kind of mothering at times where it's like, you can't tell your, you sure? Okay, I'll try that for you.

01:21:49:23 - 01:22:21:07
Speaker 1
And or you can get your, you know, belt or your jacket or this or that, you know, and and they're like, I can't do it. Or I'm like, I have one hand and I can do it. So your excuses don't go as far in this class. But I, you know, I get to, you know, mother in that way and maybe influence the next generation because there's still times where kids like girl, a girl can't climb a mountain, a girl doesn't climb a mountain, and I have to show a picture of me on top of Mount Rainier, like, oh, no.

01:22:21:07 - 01:22:40:29
Speaker 1
Yeah, they can. They do. And you know the response very vividly. This one boy about, you know, four years ago was like, you're you're a girl. So yes. And now, you know, it's a whole different thing. But I was like, yes, yes. And they climb mountains. I'm going to reiterate this point. You know, we're talking about lifting weights.

01:22:40:29 - 01:23:05:11
Speaker 1
And a boy was like, girls don't lift weights. You know, I'm pulling my, you know, shirt back and flexing. And he said, whoa, you're stronger than my dad. And realizing like, okay, like we minute like this climbing world that I'm in that I love, like that is something that some five year olds, you know, they don't see maybe themselves where they don't see someone that doesn't look like them.

01:23:05:11 - 01:23:34:05
Speaker 1
It just doesn't compute that a woman would be climbing or a person with one hand would be climbing. Or maybe, you know, the climbing doesn't even exist. Or a world outside of school, outside of their apartment, outside of their city. And so it's really fun to be like, is this my my lane to you get to, you know, teach the younger generation what I didn't really experience until, you know, I was like 28, 29 just getting into climbing.

01:23:34:07 - 01:24:07:25
Speaker 1
So I guess sometimes, you know, that that's a full circle part of this, you know, world that I'm in with, you know, my kid Will did experience the climber as a climber with adaptive needs is, you know, a man like, I'm going to I'm going to not only teach my friends around me and, you know, show it's possible to just our climbing community, but there's a bunch of five year olds every year that they learn about ice climbing, they learn about prosthetics, and hopefully, you know, they learn that, oh, it's not just like this lady that does it.

01:24:07:25 - 01:24:27:18
Speaker 1
It's all these people that we see pictures of and hear from and they look like me and wow, okay, I'm going to go do it. And hopefully they do it way earlier than I chose to do it, you know? So.

01:24:27:20 - 01:24:55:17
Speaker 1
Yes, definitely. Have, you know, been thinking about that like public speaking or traveling. You know what what school format can I be a part of where, you know, I can go pursue, you know, climbing on the next level? You know, I think there's just a lot of different opportunities out there, but it's fun to be where I'm at, and, and, be pushing the boundaries.

01:24:55:20 - 01:25:01:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01:25:01:10 - 01:25:39:01
Speaker 1
Ooh, that is a great, great question. My current. Well is now going back to Alaska. And instead of a five person team where it's, you know, mentor mentee is I'm going back as a, you know, equal two person team. My friend Lauren and I, she's an amazing climber out of Bozeman and a guide and when I, you know, we're friends and we climb into this gets to be like our expedition.

01:25:39:03 - 01:26:03:19
Speaker 1
I've done it. I know how to, you know, do the templates, set up the camp, get on the route, all those things that, you know, and Alaska expedition is, you know, kind of way more involved than, you know, going to, you know, to do Mount Adams or I'm going to go, you know, to highlight Canyon for the weekend and and being able to get to that place where I feel so confident getting to.

01:26:03:21 - 01:26:28:28
Speaker 1
Go through this process independently, like not as a mentee, but just like, yep. And know how to, you know, get back to dial in that training routine. You know, get all the, you know, travel and the flights that I tell, you know, like getting all that done is a huge will right now that feels really, really good. And when I think about what's the next can't,

01:26:29:01 - 01:26:45:13
Speaker 1
Oh, man, I want to get to a place on ice where. I can't do it. Like, what is the grade that I can't get to with a prosthetic?

01:26:47:05 - 01:27:11:16
Speaker 1
Maybe, you know, I can't lead at a certain grade, but I can follow it. You know, I, I think I want to push that and not just believe it's a can't period. And not the other parts of it. But I think there's a lot for me to, like, push when it comes to grades, you know, and doing it safely.

01:27:11:19 - 01:27:33:25
Speaker 1
But I just, I want to know. I. Yeah. Could I ever get to the point where, you know, I'm at hydrophobia and feeling strong on that one, you know, or leading a pitch of it, swinging leads or you know, even just following it. So I think a big, bigger root I'm harder ice, you know, more ice in Canada.

01:27:33:25 - 01:27:41:27
Speaker 1
I think those are all my like, can'ts with a big old question mark.

01:27:41:29 - 01:27:43:26
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:27:43:29 - 01:27:48:22
Speaker 1
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me. Loved it.

01:27:50:20 - 01:28:12:03
Speaker 1
That concludes today's episode, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. It truly means a lot to me that you're here. We are currently sitting at 112 ratings on Spotify. I am setting a goal for us to reach 255 star ratings by the end of the month, with the kind of viewership that I've been seeing lately. This goal should be super easy to achieve, but I need your help.

01:28:12:06 - 01:28:27:01
Speaker 1
So if you like today's episode and what we're doing here at The Climbing Majority, please head over to either Spotify or Apple Podcast and leave us a nice fat five star rating and a review. I've also had a lot of people reach out lately, and it's been so great to hear from all of you. Let's keep that momentum going.

01:28:27:03 - 01:28:45:13
Speaker 1
Stoked about the show? Got a guest in mind? Reach out via Instagram or reach out to me at the Climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com. Plus, don't forget you can check out our full length video episodes on YouTube. Stay tuned for our next episode, where I sit down with journalist and editor Michael Levy. Until then, keep exploring, stay safe.

01:28:45:13 - 01:28:50:16
Speaker 1
And as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority and we'll see you all in two weeks.

01:28:50:16 - 01:29:00:20
Unknown
Didn't.