84 | Twins To The Tops Part II w/ Eric and Matthew Gilbertson

Welcome back, everyone. I’m your host, Kyle Broxterman, and today we’re continuing our conversation with Eric and Matthew Gilbertson. If you missed Part One, I highly recommend circling back to listen before continuing here, as we’ll be jumping right into the middle of our two-hour conversation.

Just in the past two weeks, Eric returned from a trip to Colombia with some groundbreaking news. Due to glacial melt, the country’s previously recognized highest peak has lost about 50 meters in elevation and after surveying the region, Eric officially confirmed a new highest point in Colombia—previously thought to be Pico Colón, but now officially Pico Bolívar, stands at 5,720 meters. Reaching its summit requires an eight-pitch climb, featuring 5.6 M2 WI2 terrain. As always, Eric has documented the entire expedition in a detailed trip report, which you can find linked in the show notes.

With this latest achievement, the twins have now collectively summited 146 of the 195 country high points across the world.

In today’s episode, we take a deeper dive into some of the most unique, bizarre, and dangerous experiences they’ve encountered along their mission to summit all the country highpoints. Mountains permanently closed for religious reasons, approaches through active minefields, climbing walls made of roots and jungle vegetation, and first ascents in the remote Canadian wilderness—this conversation truly showcases the extreme variety of challenges they’ve faced.

As I mentioned before, condensing 146 global mountain ascents into just two hours is nearly impossible. But my hope is that this conversation spreads the word about their mission and the incredible accomplishments they’ve achieved so far. Eric and Matthew Gilbertson are truly modern-day explorers in every sense of the word.

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We are always looking for new guests. If you or someone you know would be a great fit for the show please don’t hesitate to reach out. You can reach us on IG or email us directly @ theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

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Resources

Country Highpoints Website

Eric Gilbertson's IG

Books

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:38 Mountain Experiences
• 14:22 The Most & Least Accessible Mountains
• 29:17 Recognition & Legacy
• 36:18 Emotional Low Points
• 43:58 The Next Big Objective
• 45:17 Lessons For The Audience
• 55:59 Closing

Transcript

00;00;00;18 - 00;00;05;27
Speaker 1
Have you ever felt that most climbing media only tells stories about what's happening at the pinnacle of the sport,

00;00;05;27 - 00;00;08;24
Speaker 1
leaving the stories of everyday climbers untold?

00;00;09;04 - 00;00;14;06
Speaker 1
I'm Kyle, and I believe that there is a growing group of climbers that wants representation.

00;00;14;12 - 00;00;24;05
Speaker 1
Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where I capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes from around the world.

00;00;24;07 - 00;00;28;29
Speaker 1
Come join me as I dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00;00;30;21 - 00;00;52;07
Speaker 1
Welcome back everyone. I'm your host, Kyle Broxton, and today we're going to be continuing our conversation with Eric and Matthew Gilbertson. If you miss part one, I highly recommend circling back to listen to it before continuing here, as we'll be jumping right into the middle of our two hour conversation. Just in the last two weeks, Eric returned from a trip to Columbia with some ground breaking news due to glacial melt.

00;00;52;07 - 00;01;23;14
Speaker 1
Unfortunately, the country's previously recognized highest peak has lost about 50m in elevation. And after surveying the region, Eric officially confirmed a new highest point in Columbia, previously thought to be Pico Cologne, but now officially Pico Bolivar stands at 5720m, reaching its summit requires an eight pitch climb featuring five six m2 Y2 terrain. As always, Eric has documented the entire expedition and a detailed trip report which you can find linked in our show notes.

00;01;23;17 - 00;01;52;12
Speaker 1
With this latest achievement, the twins have now collectively summited 146 of the 195 country high points around the world. In today's episode, we're going to be taking a deeper dive into some of the most unique, bizarre, and dangerous experiences they've encountered along their mission to summit all of the country. High Points Mountains permanently closed for religious reasons, approaches through active minefields, climbing walls made of just roots and jungle vegetation, and first ascents in the remote Canadian wilderness.

00;01;52;14 - 00;02;17;28
Speaker 1
This conversation truly showcases the extreme variety of challenges they faced along the way. As I mentioned before, condensing 146 global mountain ascents into just two hours is nearly impossible. But my hope is that this conversation spreads the word about their mission and the incredible accomplishments they've achieved so far. Eric and Matthew Gilbertson are truly modern day explorers in every sense of the word.

00;02;18;01 - 00;02;24;10
Speaker 1
So, without further delay, let's dive into part two of my conversation with Eric and Matthew Gilbertson.

00;02;37;24 - 00;02;51;12
Speaker 1
I guess where I want to take this. I guess, Matt, I'm interested in hearing some of your perspective. So, what what trip has been the most meaningful to you thus far? Like what mountain summit.

00;02;51;24 - 00;03;13;26
Speaker 1
One tips. I really like with Amanda was in the maybe a high point. It's way out there in the desert. Kind of off by itself. You get to hike through this crazy terrain, get hiked by these 3000 year old Ki paintings. You you hike in this area that doesn't get rain, you know, some years.

00;03;13;26 - 00;03;28;11
Speaker 1
And so we found, like, a watering hole, that still had water. And even though it hadn't rain for two years and were able to fill up, fill up there,

00;03;28;14 - 00;04;04;02
Speaker 1
Yeah, that was was a special one. One of the ones I that I really like, that Eric and I have done together is the Mongolian high point. It's way out there. Western Mongolia, kind of out in the middle of nowhere area than not too many people get to go to. It's kind of like Mount Rainier. It's it's not really that high or that technical, but you get to see this terrain that is just totally out of this world, these big giant plateaus at high altitude that just stretch for miles and miles and miles, were in an old kind of Russian, old Soviet era, ambulance.

00;04;04;02 - 00;04;33;26
Speaker 1
And we're kind of driving through rivers, at the trailhead, there's, there's camels. There's there's, like, I think there were yaks in there, too. There's yurts. There's, you know, we got to eat fresh cooked marmot when we got down from the peak, we got to also do a little bit of pack rafting afterwards. Got to stay with the family at their home and, you know, got to have a good local experience.

00;04;33;26 - 00;04;49;29
Speaker 1
And so that was, I think, one of my favorite peaks that Eric and I have done together. Not that challenging, but a lot of a lot of aspects of it that were a lot of fun.

00;04;50;01 - 00;04;52;19
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;04;52;19 - 00;05;04;03
Speaker 1
like, a specific. You know, you've. You've traveled the world and like, I have, like, my Google Earth or my Google Maps, and I have, like, pins all over the Earth of, like, where I want to go with the little green flags.

00;05;04;05 - 00;05;23;14
Speaker 1
And like, sometimes I look at it and I'm just depressed because I'm just like, I'm never going to be able to do this in my life. You know, but we we try, you know, the goal is to set it as high as possible and maybe we achieve it. Maybe we get halfway. But, like, is there a particular part of the world or a landscape that is just, like, super captivating for you?

00;05;23;14 - 00;05;35;13
Speaker 1
Like, you know, some people talk about, Nepal, you know, maybe Africa, like, is there a landscape, a topography or a mountain aspect of the earth that is just like, wow, like this is this is

00;05;36;26 - 00;06;08;14
Speaker 1
Yeah. I think for me is Iceland for sure. There's so such a diversity of landscapes there. There's glaciers, there's black, sandy beaches with, you know, ice, icebergs washed ashore. There's lava, there's waterfalls. There's, you know, green fields, fields of, like, lavender as far as the eye can see, which is so many different types of, scenery. They're nice, and it just it's very hospitable.

00;06;08;14 - 00;06;30;17
Speaker 1
But at the same time, it's also kind of foreign, like the the language is so different. All the street signs are so different. But, it's Eric and I did a bike, bike trip there. We biked about 150 miles or so to the high point. So we got to see a good, good portion of the country. On our way to the mountain.

00;06;30;20 - 00;06;54;18
Speaker 1
And we got to the summit. We kind of hike through the clouds, and about the last, maybe 100ft was above the clouds, when we got the summit. So you could look basically in every direction. It's all clouds. So we're kind of the only part of the entire island of Iceland that was in the sun.

00;06;54;20 - 00;07;02;09
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;07;02;12 - 00;07;06;14
Speaker 1
Yeah. My favorites, Northwest Territories and, Canada.

00;07;06;14 - 00;07;27;16
Speaker 1
So there's this one particular area. Mountain nirvana in the Ragged Range. It's it's, it's like 30 miles south of circular and rules, but no one ever goes there, and it's really hard to get to, but it's kind of like Yosemite Valley, but plopped in the middle of the wilderness and, like, 50 miles from the nearest road and completely like, unexplored and climbed.

00;07;27;18 - 00;07;44;29
Speaker 1
So I've made three expeditions in there. I, I climb the mountain twice is just so fun. There's like this. It's like this l capsize wall on one side, like many thousand feet tall, dude. Like a 40 pitch, 30 pitch rock. Climb up it and like, we've just,

00;07;44;29 - 00;07;48;25
Speaker 1
I kind of like trips where you need many different modes of transportation.

00;07;48;28 - 00;08;09;13
Speaker 1
So we had, So I did it without any planes. So a Greyhound bus from my house and then truck to this, this old mine. And then we pack rafted down this river a couple days bushwhacking, crossing glaciers. Then it's like a 20, 30 pitch rock climb and go all the way back out. But so remote in there, like the animals there have never seen people.

00;08;09;18 - 00;08;17;13
Speaker 1
I'll come up to these caribou and they're just, like, acting confused. They don't know what to do. They're like, kind of approach me. I don't know what. They don't know what I am.

00;08;21;21 - 00;08;43;08
Speaker 1
Oh, no. Oh. First ascent. Yeah. The whole face had never been climbed. You could probably put like 50 routes on there and. Two climbing partners from, MIT, Dave and Susan, they were helping. They kind of taught us rock climbing when we were in undergrad.

00;08;43;11 - 00;08;52;20
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. It's an American up on general. Or. No, we're gonna go for Rock on.

00;08;52;20 - 00;09;05;07
Speaker 1
I came that's like. That's really rad. Yeah. The circ of the in climbing walls has always been like, it's one of those green flags I have on my on my map. But it's cool to hear that there's a place just like it just around the corner.

00;09;05;22 - 00;09;29;05
Speaker 1
Yeah, but a lot harder to get to. I mean, certainly in carnivals, you can take a floatplane into this, lake nearby. And the transverse. Well, from what I've seen, it's kind of similar terrain. But this place near Mount Nirvana is just completely unexplored. So everything is unclear. It's kind of cool. All the rocks. Great. It's good granite.

00;09;29;07 - 00;09;53;20
Speaker 1
The problem is the weather. And you'll get the same thing. It's already been climbing walls. You get like a 20. You might have a 36 hour weather window every five days or so. So summit day is always a mega push. Like there's a 40 hour push without sleeping. You just get up there, get down. But as far enough north, if you're there early enough in the season that you kind of get light all day and all night, so you can actually climb through the night.

00;09;53;26 - 00;10;07;02
Speaker 1
Oh no. The easiest route is like a 22 pitch. 37, right? I've done that one. But the one we did was like 35 nine. So we had like three full tracks and we left most of the gear on the ground just for rough anchors.

00;10;12;24 - 00;10;17;12
Speaker 1
Oh no, it was just.

00;10;17;15 - 00;10;31;17
Speaker 1
Well, my partners, they, they climb so much, they, they have ABCd team and like, the, the sea team is just booty gear. And so that's the gear we leave on the mountain.

00;10;31;19 - 00;10;47;05
Speaker 1
I mean, we try to leave nuts and slings when we can, but sometimes it's just the two cam anchors all you can do. It's kind of expensive.

00;10;47;08 - 00;10;53;25
Speaker 1
Radio in the 50 classic. So of someone else.

00;10;54;01 - 00;10;58;02
Speaker 1
Oh, that's a good project. So people like to leave a safe anchor.

00;11;11;23 - 00;11;12;25
Speaker 1
Oh, wow.

00;11;15;24 - 00;11;27;03
Speaker 1
Wow. He'd have to double the wonder if he keep doing that.

00;11;46;11 - 00;11;52;17
Speaker 1
That was actually for another high point in project. But for the high points of Canada, all the problems and territories

00;11;52;17 - 00;12;15;13
Speaker 1
and this mountain, we'd seen that it had been climbed by, like, two routes. But then on the map, it looked like this enormous face on the, like the southwest face that the intriguing thing was there was one trip report from 1965 where these guys on the first descent, they walked by it and all they said was, it looks more than we were prepared for.

00;12;15;19 - 00;12;35;20
Speaker 1
And they kept going like, whoa, that sounds like a fun project. No beta, no pictures. Nothing would just show up there with like five weeks of supplies and just try to figure it out. And we actually the first expedition, we spent like five weeks and we couldn't get up it. We tried all kinds of different routes. We were like fixing lines had like, the ledge halfway up.

00;12;35;20 - 00;12;53;01
Speaker 1
We had an advanced base camp. We got up about like probably it looked like about two pitches below the summer ridge. There was just a blank face, what looked like a crack from like, binoculars from a distance was actually just nothing. It was kind of like a corner, but there was no crack in there, so we couldn't do anything.

00;12;53;01 - 00;12;54;01
Speaker 1
So I had to bail.

00;12;54;01 - 00;13;07;20
Speaker 1
And then the next year I went back in and we did the like the route that had been done before. But it's like the 27th, the picture, the five seven. So. Right. Because I wanted to get the top. But then the next year we came back in, we wanted to climb this face that was on climbed.

00;13;07;23 - 00;13;28;07
Speaker 1
So that was like another five weeks there. Very last weather window. Well, we got up like 20 pitches on the first attempt and then like the weather crapped out and we bailed. But we left 20 pitches of wrap anchors. So the last weather window possible where like, we had that route dialed the first 20 pitches, just swinging leads.

00;13;28;09 - 00;13;38;01
Speaker 1
And we already had our F anchor set up. So then that was like 40 hour pitch and 40 hour push to me, and we just barely got it.

00;13;39;05 - 00;13;42;07
Speaker 1
I'm not really good at anything. We just.

00;13;42;15 - 00;14;05;29
Speaker 1
I think we just gave it our last names. Custer. Y'all were some, I don't know, maybe we're supposed to name it. I feel like crags. You name roots? It seems like on the alpine, you kind of just give it to people's names. I'm not sure what the precedent is.

00;14;06;01 - 00;14;09;25
Speaker 1
Not a country argument, though.

00;14;09;25 - 00;14;23;04
Speaker 1
into, like, you know, each segmented area too. It's like high points within this area, high points globally high points. You know, it's such an interesting way to to dive after goals as a climber and mix like all these passions together. It's pretty sweet.

00;14;24;22 - 00;14;28;16
Speaker 1
What about back to like, the country high points? What about

00;14;28;16 - 00;14;45;01
Speaker 1
what is the most logistically challenging mountain to get to? Whether it be, largest like religious, political like, which is the one that's the biggest question mark that you haven't done yet. And you're just like, I have no idea how this is going to happen.

00;14;47;00 - 00;14;49;22
Speaker 1
If you've been enjoying the climbing majority, please rate.

00;14;49;22 - 00;14;53;05
Speaker 2
And review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00;14;54;18 - 00;14;55;21
Speaker 1
My mark.

00;14;56;03 - 00;15;19;22
Speaker 1
No, it's definitely brutal. I gang up on some bias on climb mountain in the world. It's been so all mountains above, like, 6000m or 5000m in Bhutan are closed for religious reasons. They were open in like, the 80s, though maybe early 90s. So teams tried it. This it's like this 2000 6000 meter peak and no one made it.

00;15;19;24 - 00;15;29;00
Speaker 1
But now it's closed so no one knows. Big question mark. Is it ever going to open? Who knows?

00;15;29;23 - 00;15;41;29
Speaker 1
I haven't heard of anything. It is on the China border. So there was a Japanese team that got permission from China back in the 90s. But once they got close, then I think Bhutan wasn't happy and China revoked permission.

00;15;41;29 - 00;16;03;03
Speaker 1
Is there like, obviously. Like, I'm not trying to advocate for breaking religious conduct on mountains, but, like, what would it look like if you did? Like, is there an army that would, like, string you up and make you disappear or like, you know what, like what are the implications of somebody actually trying to break that kind of religious conduct?

00;16;04;03 - 00;16;15;23
Speaker 1
Maybe I'm a China side. I'm not sure. On the Bhutan side. I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to test it. I would do like.

00;16;15;25 - 00;16;32;21
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;16;34;09 - 00;16;43;22
Speaker 1
I'm not sure of the details, but, like, I'm. I'm confused why I was open in the past, but not now. Which I don't know what changed.

00;16;43;22 - 00;16;55;02
Speaker 1
like, straight up question mark. It's going to have to something internal in the country is going to have to change to allow, especially Westerners to be on top of those mountains.

00;16;55;02 - 00;17;04;20
Speaker 1
you know, as a case for many other countries like North Korea. High point there is pretty easy. We've looked into it, but obviously nowadays it's a no go.

00;17;05;24 - 00;17;13;19
Speaker 1
But act. But they have opened, I think in December, they're going to start opening up tourism, specifically on pick to the North Korea high point.

00;17;13;19 - 00;17;16;17
Speaker 1
would you feel safe going in there even if it was, like, open for tourism?

00;17;16;17 - 00;17;34;01
Speaker 1
well, in 2013 we were pretty close to going. It was like Americans were going climbing a mountain. No problem. So I think political season, political situations kind of go back and forth. Sometimes their states sometimes are not. So if a window opens, you got to jump on it and get it.

00;17;38;01 - 00;17;54;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. We've gotten kind of, you know, lucky with some countries, like Cuba, for example. We're able to do that when politically it was really easy to to take over there. And, you know, nowadays it's not quite as easy. So, yeah, you have to be strategic in when you visit.

00;17;54;24 - 00;18;19;02
Speaker 1
Sometimes you have to be lucky. Like in Sri Lanka, the top is like, military communications, like outpost and with guards and fences. Matthew went there and he had a friendly guard, and he got in and I went, and the guards said, no permission. I spent three days there waiting around. Try and try and nope, no permission. So I just got I'm lucky.

00;18;19;02 - 00;18;23;16
Speaker 1
Eric went there and he was able to just drive right on, right on to the peak,

00;18;23;16 - 00;18;57;03
Speaker 1
that was that was the easiest country. High point in the whole world. I could drive to the top and stick my foot out the window while sitting out the door, while sitting on the seat and touch the high point. Can I get easier? But then, Matt, now it's like the hardest in the world.

00;18;57;03 - 00;19;07;03
Speaker 1
to say. Like I'm a peak bagger. I'm trying to get to the top, show it to him. I wasn't interested in working with me at all, and it just.

00;19;07;03 - 00;19;12;12
Speaker 1
video game, right? It's like the guard at the gate. All you can say is no. And you got to find, like, the the way to

00;19;23;05 - 00;19;40;18
Speaker 1
you know, you hear the story of Tommy Caldwell and how, like, he had the whole, terrorist situation and the hostage, like, have you guys ever run into a situation like that in some of the more remote, like, areas of Pakistan or Kyrgyzstan? Like, have you had any run ins with, like, local terrorist communities or local militia or anything like that?

00;19;40;26 - 00;20;05;07
Speaker 1
We haven't had any problems. I mean, I've been in Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan, and Afghanistan was probably the maybe the riskiest. When I went in in 2019, the Taliban were still in control, but they were not in control of this one little region called a walk on corridor, because the locals wouldn't let the Taliban in. So we crossed into that area from Austin, and then we climbed the Afghanistan.

00;20;05;07 - 00;20;07;01
Speaker 1
Halfway

00;20;07;01 - 00;20;29;11
Speaker 1
through the route up was landmines, though, so we had to be very careful. Go. We hired locals in the nearby village. They knew the safe way. And there was this trail to follow. And we got to this field where we were supposed to camp, and there were rocks along the trail, and I put my tent on one side, just like right next to the rocks, like three feet away.

00;20;29;14 - 00;20;42;05
Speaker 1
The porter came up and he knew two words of English know and boom. And so he said, no boom. That's like no boom. And then I pointed to the other side and he said, okay.

00;20;42;05 - 00;20;44;17
Speaker 1
Damn. So you put your tent on a landmine.

00;20;44;17 - 00;20;49;29
Speaker 1
no. It was, but it was in a field that they didn't know was safe. And so we camped on the other side.

00;20;50;05 - 00;21;05;09
Speaker 1
And that night, one of the donkeys got loose and was running around that field. So the porter, he had to get it. So he was hopping rock to rock very carefully, not touching the ground. And then somehow I got the donkey.

00;21;05;11 - 00;21;19;01
Speaker 1
Well, so when we were hiking back after like three weeks, there was this cow that had stepped on one and we saw its carcass nearby. So you definitely want to go exactly where the locals say you to go.

00;21;19;01 - 00;21;29;04
Speaker 1
in a world like that where you're like, oh, yeah, I've got land mines in my backyard, and I've got to take this secret path to get through to the fucking village or whatever. That's. That's pretty. That's pretty

00;21;29;17 - 00;21;39;22
Speaker 1
There. So it wasn't in Nicaragua. Actually. We had to hire a guide. And we followed directly behind him. And he knew the safe way through the jungle, avoiding landmines.

00;21;39;22 - 00;22;01;01
Speaker 1
Wow. So land mines in a jungle. That's even. That's even more sus. It's wild. So I want to. That's actually a great segue. I'm interested in. So I saw this picture of you guys vertical bushwhacking. I think that's how you guys put it. And I was just like, what the fuck are these guys doing? You're like, on a cliff side.

00;22;01;01 - 00;22;03;12
Speaker 1
There's no rocks. It's just jungle

00;22;10;11 - 00;22;14;04
Speaker 1
The rescue in Saint Vincent.

00;22;24;09 - 00;22;39;14
Speaker 1
I would say this is a case. These kind of mountains come up a lot where it's a crater. And a trail will go to one side of the crater rim. But the highest point is actually on the other side. And so all the existing data on this mountain was, oh, just a trail over the top. No problem.

00;22;39;16 - 00;22;59;28
Speaker 1
And so we get there and then we look across and were like, well, we're not at the talk, the top story or sorry. So we had no idea what was the best way to get there. Do we go clockwise or counterclockwise? Well, we just flip the coin right one way. And it turned out once we got when we were approaching the summit, it was kind of dangerous because there are these bushes that make the terrain were completely flat.

00;23;00;02 - 00;23;26;11
Speaker 1
But in reality, there's these deep chasms that are hidden underneath them. So you could fall in like ten feet if you didn't want. Really careful. So we get to the base and it's extremely steep, and there's just these bushes, on the face. And if you grab them on the side, you could easily just rip them out. So the only thing you could do was dig down to the roots and, like, grab a fistful of root with each hand as deep as you can.

00;23;26;14 - 00;23;33;01
Speaker 1
And then that was like the most secure, secure climbing we could get.

00;23;34;17 - 00;23;43;17
Speaker 1
I mean, it wasn't like dead vertical, but it was. Steve. Enough. You don't want to fall as well. At least a couple hundred feet. Probably. Or maybe you remember better. Matthew.

00;23;44;05 - 00;24;07;10
Speaker 1
Yeah. We're right behind you. I can't remember who was in the front. Yeah, yeah, I thought maybe, like, 100, 200ft. And then I kind of eased up and we got to the top, and then we noticed that you could kind of hike along the rim, back, back down a more gentle, gentle route. And I worked. But it turns out within like the last year or two, there was a volcanic eruption there.

00;24;07;12 - 00;24;12;02
Speaker 1
And it and it completely reshaped the whole landscape.

00;24;13;01 - 00;24;33;07
Speaker 1
Oh, yeah. Well, one of my friends has been there, so she went there. Like in this past spring. He took a couple attempts, so he knew that the route we took up was not a good one. But he said the summit is unchanged. He tried to take our descent route, but apparently it erupted and there are some big outflow.

00;24;33;07 - 00;24;48;26
Speaker 1
It just kind of wiped out the crater in there, turn into a cliff. So he he made two trips and the second one got up. He said it was it was challenging, but somehow he made it.

00;24;48;29 - 00;25;05;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's what he said. It's the same, same high point. So we don't have to like go back or. Well, one thing we say is our definition of the high point is the highest point. If you reach the highest point on the day you're there, then you can count it. So you can't predict that a mountain is going to change in the future.

00;25;05;29 - 00;25;26;01
Speaker 1
Like Sweden, when we went there, South peak of Mikasa was the high point, but now it's melted down. So if I'm out, it's like a volcano erupts. Well, I mean, maybe you'll go back there anyway, but some people ask, oh, do you have to go back? I feel like you can't predict how mountains are going to change in the future.

00;25;26;04 - 00;25;38;13
Speaker 1
Like Mount Cook, apparently in the 90s used to be much easier. But then there was this huge rock slide, like the summit kind of like fell off. And now you have this really difficult summer ridge.

00;25;38;15 - 00;25;48;09
Speaker 1
So I wouldn't want to tell someone back then. Oh, no, you got to go back now. It's harder, but it's changed, so you got to go back. That one was very nice.

00;25;48;12 - 00;25;50;09
Speaker 1
I don't want to tell anyone that.

00;25;51;17 - 00;25;51;25
Speaker 2
What.

00;25;51;25 - 00;26;04;12
Speaker 1
About some other unfinished attempts? It sounds like Chad and Ethiopia are also some unfinished ones. Are those are those remarkable stories or just kind of,

00;26;04;12 - 00;26;29;09
Speaker 1
Chad, we went in there into N'Djamena, the capital, and you need to get this special document to leave the town to go into the outskirts. And we thought we had everything arranged, but we were waiting, waiting, waiting, like five days. Six days. The the the right officials were not in town, and they didn't have any deputies to sign for it.

00;26;29;11 - 00;26;37;05
Speaker 1
And it's always had to change plans after that. That time we couldn't do it. So I got to go back and kind of plan a better.

00;26;37;05 - 00;26;57;17
Speaker 1
have respect for the amount of freedom we have out here to just go wherever the hell we want. For the most part, it seems like there's a lot of areas in other countries that are pretty locked down. And, you know, we, you know, I gripe about having to get a permit for Mount Whitney, but, it seems like, you know, there's other areas that are extremely locked down.

00;26;57;19 - 00;27;07;24
Speaker 1
Do you see, like, why do you why do you think these other countries have, like, such restrictive areas? Is it just for foreigners and tourists, or is it just regulated for

00;27;07;24 - 00;27;33;27
Speaker 1
for Chad, there's, like, rebel activity in the north, and there's a lot of gold mining up there that the government can't really control. So it's kind of like Wild West. And I think that's why they want to regulate it. Right. There's other red tape. The most red tape I've ever experienced is Greenland actually to. I did an expedition this summer.

00;27;33;27 - 00;27;53;09
Speaker 1
We, me and another foreigner, we snow coded to cross. It was like two month expedition 1500 miles and takes three months to get the permit. That's the most logistically complicated. You need all kinds of different insurances. Our bank guarantees SA medevac and you need.

00;27;53;12 - 00;27;59;11
Speaker 1
I think Greenland doesn't want to be responsible for paying to fly some helicopter in there and get you super expensive.

00;28;00;06 - 00;28;03;25
Speaker 1
So it's like a it's like a rescue insurance, essentially.

00;28;05;06 - 00;28;06;11
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;28;11;05 - 00;28;26;24
Speaker 1
Right. Like one insurance covers you if you get hurt, one insurance covers you if you just, like, are incommunicado for like, no one knows where you are. And they have to go find you and one covers you if you just kind of do something stupid and it's not medical related, you just like ran out of food or something.

00;28;26;24 - 00;28;30;05
Speaker 1
Anyway, you need to transfer all those.

00;28;30;05 - 00;28;52;17
Speaker 1
I mean, the permit itself was like 500 bucks, but it's like, say, three months to. And you don't know if you're going to get it or not. Then on either end of the trip, I thought like a one, like a five day delay. And Chad was a big deal. We were delayed like 16 days getting in because we had to wait for sea ice to clear the boat to the coast.

00;28;52;19 - 00;29;00;11
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, and then delayed 17 days getting out just because the planes never came into this town. It's the hardest town in the world to get out of. I think.

00;29;01;05 - 00;29;05;13
Speaker 1
Was there a high point you were going after out there, or was this just a expedition?

00;29;06;15 - 00;29;18;08
Speaker 1
It's kind of training for for future high points that I want to know guide into. We did some climbing on the West Coast. We did four and climb peaks, but it into.

00;29;18;08 - 00;29;33;11
Speaker 1
just keep throwing these, like, little like, small statements like. Oh yeah. We just did four unclaimed peaks over here and we just did a couple and climb peaks over here. You know, you're very nonchalant about your achievements here. Like, how do you.

00;29;33;11 - 00;29;34;29
Speaker 2
See.

00;29;35;01 - 00;29;52;07
Speaker 1
How do you see, like these things you're doing in the climbing world? Like, do you see them as notable or you just kind of like, oh, this is just what I do. Like how how do you kind of wrap your head around the things that you do? Because I think a lot of people these days search for clout or they search for recognition.

00;29;52;07 - 00;30;12;27
Speaker 1
We search for, you know, like recognition for our achievements and the things that we do. And yeah, I don't know if you know this, but, I came across both of you guys because I posted a Reddit post and I said, you know, who are the who are the most unrecognized climbers out there in the world achieving the coolest things right now?

00;30;12;27 - 00;30;40;00
Speaker 1
Like whose stories aren't being told. And like, your guys's name came up like people who knew you saw this post on Reddit and threw your name into the hat. And that's why I found you guys. So, like, you know what it is? What is it about your. And this, you know, this question goes to both of you because I think you both have achieved some amazing things traveling around the world and reaching these high points that a lot of people probably spend a lot of their life trying to do.

00;30;40;02 - 00;30;58;13
Speaker 1
Like, what's your approach like, you know, do you is there any part of you that searches for recognition and like, is it just, because you have like, you have your website, you know, is it just a journal for yourself? Like, how have you conceptualized, like, sharing these things with the world and, and how that relates to, like, your ego and your passion?

00;31;03;10 - 00;31;23;00
Speaker 1
Oh. You want me to start? I think the website's kind of like a journal. And I think I definitely benefit from reading beta from other climbers for mountains. So I kind of feel like I want to put all the beta that I learned out there, and then other climbers can learn from that, and then I can make connections with other climbers.

00;31;23;00 - 00;31;49;09
Speaker 1
Then maybe they can be other be partners on future trips for the. I don't really try to do anything for recognition. It's kind of like we have this big project and I really want to, like, finish this goal of climbing country high points and kind of like along the way. It kind of lends itself to all these interesting expeditions, like, like, going to Pakistan and climbing the incline peak.

00;31;49;09 - 00;32;09;03
Speaker 1
There was the high point. It wasn't necessarily just to like climb on, climb peak, but it was to get to the highest point. But a side effect was this really interesting expedition that this mountain that had no data. And we found this new route up it. And like for Greenland, it's it's more like these are all like little stepping stones toward the main goal of the country, high points.

00;32;09;06 - 00;32;18;15
Speaker 1
Like, if I can do a snow kite expedition in Greenland, then I can use this skill for other trips. Country high points then might require a snow kite approach.

00;32;18;21 - 00;32;43;21
Speaker 1
Bearing for me, like I was kind of seeing earlier. There's a lot of reasons. There's no personal achievement. Like setting a goal, causing it. There's, like, getting to kind of test myself, my physical abilities. You know? It gives me a lot of pride at the top of the mountain. After you know, a lot of planning and just being able to see parts of the world that I wouldn't have any excuse to see otherwise.

00;32;43;23 - 00;33;08;15
Speaker 1
Those are some of the top reasons for me.

00;33;08;18 - 00;33;35;15
Speaker 1
For now, I definitely like to. I like to get the kids up some high points. So I've been saving in Croatia for that for a while now. That one's pretty easy. And then that help help every it we do. Austria, then Croatia be the last one for me in Europe. So that one's pretty special. Yeah. You know, two and five.

00;33;35;17 - 00;33;40;16
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's right. Maybe the maybe the fire road. She can hike part of it.

00;34;30;20 - 00;34;38;15
Speaker 1
Like to go to Antarctica and use my snow coding skills.

00;34;38;17 - 00;34;59;26
Speaker 1
Yeah, that'll be kind of fun. Like to try to do stuff cheap. So if you can not rely on planes. But, like snow cone, you can cover some data to 200 miles in a day. And it was not that. It's definitely achievable. So you'd cover huge distances. So that opens up a lot of terrain.

00;34;59;29 - 00;35;09;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Once in a while.

00;35;09;09 - 00;35;15;20
Speaker 1
Whoa. I haven't heard that.

00;35;15;20 - 00;35;17;00
Speaker 1
me of the story.

00;35;17;03 - 00;35;37;20
Speaker 1
He, like, goes the same direction in as he does out. And so on the way in, he's taking some of his gear and stashing it along the way. And then so on the way back, he has these stashes to get himself back out. And apparently, like his last stash, that he put the first stash that he made, he had forgotten about it and like, got to the stash.

00;35;37;20 - 00;35;39;25
Speaker 1
And at first it's, you know, he's like.

00;35;39;28 - 00;35;40;16
Speaker 2
Weeks.

00;35;40;16 - 00;35;54;06
Speaker 1
And weeks into this trip and like, he opens the stash and it's like trash, trash, trash. And he's like, oh, it's just trash. And then he, like, opens up and like, it's a candy bar. And like, there's this raw audio of him. He's just like, yeah.

00;35;54;08 - 00;35;54;29
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;35;55;02 - 00;36;18;05
Speaker 1
So and then it just like goes completely silent. And then, you know, it's like the whole part of the episode was just like, how much joy you can find in like, the simple moments, especially when you put yourself so far out there where, like, this candy bar was just like life changing for him. But yeah, he was he was in Antarctica and doing something similar like that.

00;36;18;08 - 00;36;34;19
Speaker 1
I don't know what the point of that tangent was. It was just, an interesting story. I guess I can try to swing it into this conversation at all. Like to the topic of, like, suffering and, like, putting yourself out there far on the edge. And this will be a question for, for both of you separately.

00;36;34;21 - 00;36;51;26
Speaker 1
Matthew, like, have you had like, what's the what's the moment in your life? And maybe this isn't related to these, these mountain peaks, or maybe it is where it's like the lowest of the low point, like the the most suffering that you've had to endure. What what moment was that for you?

00;36;52;10 - 00;36;59;28
Speaker 1
If you've been enjoying the show, please like, subscribe and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show.

00;37;02;11 - 00;37;24;25
Speaker 1
Well, I think Everest is, all about suffering. I mean, there for, like, two months. I'm on the glacier, and you're like, for me, I don't acclimate super well, so I'm just getting weaker and weaker and weaker every day. So finally somebody comes, get up really early, get to the south, get to the south summit. And the wind is way stronger than expected.

00;37;24;28 - 00;37;50;09
Speaker 1
Wind chills 40 below and hadn't slept for, you know, two nights. And I have a I'm on oxygen, but still I'm like, you know, kind of my visions starting to get like a little bit blurry. And I'm feeling, like really, really cold. And it was we we actually had gone a lot faster than we had expected. So we got to that point at like 2:30 a.m..

00;37;50;11 - 00;38;20;15
Speaker 1
So three hours until the sun would rise. And I knew that I couldn't just sit there for the next three hours waiting to warm up. So I said, I've got a wife and two kids. I got to go down. It just just too risky. So that was, a really hard decision for me. But I, I've never second guessed that decision in the last, you know, a year and a half since then, I've known it was the right decision.

00;38;20;18 - 00;38;43;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. In fact, a couple of the climbers, within our our company's team, like, didn't make it, and they, they actually. Yeah, they got to about the same point as I did, and they weren't able to, to get down. So, yeah, I'm just really glad that I kind of made that decision, but. Yeah, that was really hard.

00;38;43;22 - 00;39;08;12
Speaker 1
Really hard mountain. On the way down, we just basically picked up our gear I can't for kept going down. Went all the way past camp three, all the way to camp two. So it was, you know, pretty much three days of no sleep going, you know, two thirds of the way, going up almost to the top and two thirds of the way down.

00;39;08;15 - 00;39;32;22
Speaker 1
And then on the way down through the Khumbu Icefall, I was probably the most exhaustive I've ever been in my life. I remember my hands seem like they knew what to do. I clipping on to the ropes, but my brain was only like 50% there. Like I wasn't really comprehending things and I. I made it through safely. But, yeah, it was it was the most kind of exhausted that I've ever been in.

00;39;32;22 - 00;39;49;16
Speaker 1
When I got to base camp.

00;39;49;18 - 00;40;18;14
Speaker 1
But I think just kind of realizing that the stakes are higher in some mountains and it's not. No, no peak is worth losing your life over for sure. There's, you know, like my wife and two kids at home, I've got to come back safely to them. Yeah, I was got to keep that in the back of my mind.

00;40;18;14 - 00;40;32;14
Speaker 1
you say before your family you were more of a risk taker? Or and like that, that moment kind of like, made your reel in a little bit, or it was just, like the first time where you're just like, wow. Like, that was pretty close.

00;40;34;04 - 00;41;00;05
Speaker 1
I think that was one of those from the first peak where I've been really conscious that, yeah, I, I, I definitely like I have to get back no matter what. And like, there's, you know, two kids and my wife that are waiting for me. Yeah. So I think that was that was a pretty those. Yeah.

00;41;00;05 - 00;41;02;25
Speaker 1
One of the first times I felt that way,

00;41;03;06 - 00;41;10;19
Speaker 1
Eric, how about yourself? Do you have, like, a striking moment where suffering kind of played a huge role in your life and kind of brought you to the edge.

00;41;12;03 - 00;41;35;29
Speaker 1
There's definitely a mountain where I suffered a lot on Pobeda. The the summit day, like, above 7000m breaking. I end up breaking trail the whole way on my own, the whole way up and I've never been more exhausted than that after I got back. So I think this contributed to my frostbite so totally worn out.

00;41;36;01 - 00;41;56;19
Speaker 1
And in our tent, we tried to save weight, so we didn't bring a vestibule, but up at that elevation we needed to have some ventilation, have some air so we could breathe. But it was like blowing snow all night. So the snow blows in, gets our sleeping bags wet, so there's no insulation. So we basically don't get any sleep after an exhausting day.

00;41;56;22 - 00;42;13;29
Speaker 1
And then this little avalanche stuff. It's our 10th anniversary and we just dive out and I'm trying to dig out with my bare hands. And I said, okay, we gotta get down. So exhausted. No sleep. And then my hands are frozen. But we got to get down. And my partner, he lost a cramp on. So we had to be super careful getting down.

00;42;14;03 - 00;42;31;16
Speaker 1
So I'm setting up these V threads. Wrapping down. I know, not worrying about my hands at all. Just got to get down as far as possible. So we finally get down to the bottom. And that's when I realized this was probably the most, I was very disappointed in myself because, then all my fingers had blisters on them, so I knew I frostbite.

00;42;31;18 - 00;42;51;24
Speaker 1
And so I got back to the camp, and we were able to take the next helicopter out the next day down to Bishkek. And so for the next three days, I was basically just sleeping all day in the hotel. I was just completely zapped. I think the frostbite kind of like zapped me too. And I was just super nervous at all.

00;42;51;24 - 00;43;13;24
Speaker 1
I mean, I'm going to, like, have permanent damage. So I was kind of like a low point, but then everything like 100% recovered. So it all is all okay now I'm like super, super careful now about keeping my hands a lot warmer. I was not very careful on.

00;43;14;25 - 00;43;37;00
Speaker 1
I think the biggest problem was that I got they got really cold and I warmed them up and then they're froze again. The next day. So doing all this, like, complicated rope work but allowing to be out cold. And that cycle, I think was the bad problem. I think if I had done another cycle like that, it would have been really bad.

00;43;37;02 - 00;43;48;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, it was kind of the lowest edge. They weren't black, but they blistered and have a little bit like brown bits on them. So it's totally fine now, but I wouldn't want to go any further. I don't want that to happen ever again.

00;44;14;15 - 00;44;44;04
Speaker 1
We're still kind of hammering out the details, so maybe. Maybe I don't want to talk about. I know I kind of like to not not announce trips in advance.

00;44;44;04 - 00;44;44;10
Speaker 2
nice.

00;44;44;10 - 00;45;01;20
Speaker 1
Guys. I mean, this is kind of like the the kind of tail end of the, of the conversation here. I think that, you know, there's just so much to cover, I think that you guys have, like, you've done so much. There's so many objectives for anybody listening. You know, I'll mention this at the beginning of the episode as well.

00;45;01;20 - 00;45;27;07
Speaker 1
Like check out their website. Literally, there's like stories for most of the climbs that they've done that you guys have done. And they're extensive documentary like written stories, like, I mean, very visual. Like I felt like I was there with you guys, which is really cool. So definitely check it out. You know, it's really impossible to, to capture what you guys have done and the level of adventure and exploration that you guys have had in your life.

00;45;27;15 - 00;45;39;24
Speaker 1
In a two hour conversation. So, do you feel like, you know, there's anything that I missed? Is there, like, maybe, you know, something in the future that you guys are looking forward to that you'd like to share.

00;45;39;26 - 00;45;41;03
Speaker 2
Or.

00;45;41;06 - 00;45;49;02
Speaker 1
A lesson or like a life lesson that you guys feel like you'd like to share with the audience. Kind of usually how I like to kind of wrap these conversations up.

00;45;49;05 - 00;46;12;10
Speaker 1
One thing I can think of is it's, There there are ways to visit a lot of international places there that is not expensive. So we try to be as cheap as possible. Like you can bike tour all around Europe and not pay sleep and not pay for transportation and see a lot of places, basically for free. And you can do credit card tricks and get all kinds of free flights.

00;46;12;15 - 00;46;21;21
Speaker 1
So it's possible to you don't have to be super rich to visit all these different interesting climbing places around the world. Just have to be creative and careful about.

00;46;21;21 - 00;46;32;06
Speaker 1
So biking and and credit card trick like tricks. Like what are what can maybe dive into a little bit more. Like what? What kind of tips and tricks can you offer? Are people besides those two things?

00;46;32;19 - 00;46;46;29
Speaker 1
If you have travel for work or for conferences, you know you can try to make sure that that's in an exciting location that you can. You know you can. You can get there a weekend early and leave a weekend late and do some mountains on either end. And

00;46;47;09 - 00;47;06;28
Speaker 1
As you can learn your own skills in advance. And you do want to hire guides in the country like Mount Cook? I'm sure that'd be really expensive. Tire guide. But then we kind of learn the skills in advance, and then we'll pay anything.

00;47;06;28 - 00;47;24;11
Speaker 1
Yeah. In Washington, there's plenty of foods you could if you do winter mountaineering here. That would be good preparation for McCook.

00;47;24;27 - 00;47;48;03
Speaker 1
I think a lot of times people are surprised how we can do all this traveling and not feel like knowing areas or something, but if you're extremely, careful and saving your money and being careful how you get to the peaks in the country, there are always there are generally cheap ways to do these things. Like for, K2, for instance, I only paid for the permit.

00;47;48;10 - 00;48;01;17
Speaker 1
It's like 2000 bucks and people will pay like $100,000 to climb it. But if you like, just just buy the permit. And it's probably gotten more expensive now. But a couple of years ago.

00;48;01;19 - 00;48;20;11
Speaker 1
Well, for broad, we paid for, base camp logistics was like a couple thousand dollars for the permit for Brod. And then to get all our gear in there. And then after we got down, we kind of made a last minute decision. Okay. We're feeling good. Can we go? Good to go do K2 and. But logistics guy, I was like, okay, yeah.

00;48;20;11 - 00;48;36;26
Speaker 1
Just made some calls, got the permit. We, like, wired him the money, like, okay, you're good to go. And I was just. That's about as cheap as you could do it. So even these big mountains, if you if you learn the skills in advance, like on your own, you can save a lot of money.

00;48;36;26 - 00;48;43;08
Speaker 1
So you're saying, like, technical mountain skills in terms of, like, getting yourself up the mountain? Like you have to pay a guide to do it? Is that what you're saying?

00;48;44;13 - 00;49;03;29
Speaker 1
Right. Like, if there aren't ropes fixed the whole way, then if you can get to those, like on Broad Peak, the team that was fixing the ropes, they stopped at the summit ridge at the edge, and it was still like a long ways to the summit, and all the other teams were turning around. But me and our friend, we just kind of just went and we were comfortable on that terrain.

00;49;04;01 - 00;49;12;13
Speaker 1
So.

00;49;12;19 - 00;49;32;05
Speaker 1
Right. And I think you need a lot more non-technical experience, like doing like 24 hour pushes. Doing that a lot is good. Prep is very important for like the big mountains breaking trail. That's like suffering in cold, like, tolerating discomfort. That's what I say. Mountaineering is all good.

00;49;32;08 - 00;49;40;01
Speaker 1
How much you. Matthew, any, anything you felt like we missed or any reflections you have, about your and your your journey up to this point that you'd like to share with people

00;49;41;23 - 00;50;05;00
Speaker 1
Messing with them to be. I was just going to share one other money saving trick. We do a lot of, stealth camping instead of staying in hotels, and that saves money. We, for example, in the Bahamas for the high point there, we ended up just camping right outside the airport, probably about 500ft from the door in the jungle.

00;50;05;03 - 00;50;29;03
Speaker 1
And but we told them we were going to stay in the Atlantis Hotel in order to, you know, check the box on the, you know, immigration form that we had, we had an address. So we listed that as the address, but we ended up sleeping in the in the bushes, right, right, right outside of the door. So, yeah, the tricks like that, you know, to save us money and allowed us to visit more mountains in the end.

00;50;29;05 - 00;50;35;20
Speaker 1
No, we haven't. Yeah.

00;50;35;20 - 00;50;50;17
Speaker 1
I flew to Turkey, Istanbul with no plan except for going to a hostel. And I didn't have, any transportation set up except for I started on my Google Maps, and I was like, all right, I'm going to go here.

00;50;50;20 - 00;51;04;20
Speaker 1
And like, long story short, I this girl on the plane who lived there ended up showing me how to get to her place and stuff, and it it worked out really well because I showed up to that country and I was just like, Holy hell, this city is way bigger than I thought, and I have no idea where the hell I am.

00;51;04;21 - 00;51;24;03
Speaker 1
And it was the first time international, but I ended up like, you know, hiking, hitchhiking, bus traveling. And just like you said, stealth camping. Like I brought my tent and like, I would like, you know, find this random hillside with a flat spot, just throw my tent down and like, there was a camping site, you know, there was like 20 bucks down the way per night or whatever.

00;51;24;03 - 00;51;45;10
Speaker 1
And everywhere else was like a hostel and stuff. And it was just like, yeah, just throw your tent down wherever you want. It's kind of so hard to do in some places, but really easy to do in others. So it definitely, if you're crafty, what about, okay. I have an interesting question. So in these other countries, do you trust people inherently?

00;51;45;13 - 00;51;47;10
Speaker 1
Do you trust strangers?

00;51;47;12 - 00;52;16;26
Speaker 1
I think we just picked most people, except at, like, border crossings. Like, for example, in Central America, we. We drove through a lot of border crossings and as always, you were trying to scam you. So the people that are asking you for asking for money, you gotta, gotta be careful. But people, there's no money involved. Yeah, I generally trust.

00;52;19;06 - 00;52;45;19
Speaker 1
Yeah. This is one reason. So I found in, like, West Africa and developing countries is it'll save money to hire a driver rather than trying to rent your own car, because there's so many police checkpoints in these corrupt countries that if you're just driving on your own, maybe it's not even possible. Rent a car. But if you're driving on your own, you're going to get a really big C, but if you have a local, they'll get the they'll get the bribe down.

00;52;45;19 - 00;53;01;09
Speaker 1
And they'll also know the safe places to drive to avoid these problems. And you don't really have to worry about safety or like getting scammed. And you'll pay a little bit more for a local driver, but you'll see a lot of money in the end, and it'll be a lot safer.

00;53;01;21 - 00;53;17;20
Speaker 1
But in general, you would say that most of the people on the street, in the city and towns and villages that you've experienced in these very rural third world country areas, like you, you innately trust people and they trust you. And it's a very positive experience. Mostly.

00;53;18;00 - 00;53;23;15
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think general, I mean, in general, people are friendly and trusting.

00;53;23;15 - 00;53;40;16
Speaker 1
I think it's just a it's a big question mark for a lot of people, especially in this sheltered Western culture out here where like, oh, we're scared to travel. It's dangerous. So I think it's just an important narrative to share, because I felt the same, like, I mean, obviously there's moments, but like, in Turkey, it is just like, you know, everywhere I went, it's it very hospitable.

00;53;40;16 - 00;53;53;07
Speaker 1
It's like, oh, my gosh, you're traveling is so cool. Like, welcome to our country. Here's our, here's our, our hospitality. Like, this is what we do. You know, it's like, people are generally very hospitable and welcoming and understanding. As long as you're a nice person. Obviously, if

00;53;54;09 - 00;54;13;13
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I found with with bike touring, especially, like in Eastern Europe, I was hitting hard points and people kind of, like, see that you're doing some difficult thing and they're trying to help you. So like in Moldova, I was at sunset and I was trying to look at this map. I didn't know where I was going to stop, and I was kind of looking confused.

00;54;13;15 - 00;54;30;13
Speaker 1
And I was family kind of came over and they said, you days are you need to sleep with us tonight. And I was like, no, no, I'll go camp. Familia insisting. And so they have like their own vineyards and they give me all kinds of nice wine and like homemade honey. And it was just amazing, like so many friendly people help me when I'm traveling like that.

00;54;30;13 - 00;54;32;19
Speaker 2
Any,

00;54;32;22 - 00;54;44;29
Speaker 1
I guess I, I speak to this because I've had my own, but like, any, like, weird, uncomfortable, like, slightly unsafe situations that you got yourself out of in terms of, like, dealing with local population.

00;54;46;03 - 00;55;09;11
Speaker 1
Oh. I'm, Honduras. The taxi strike was kind of kind of like that. Remember that? Matthew? So we were trying to. We had our own rental car, and we were trying to drive and get to the high point in Honduras or one of those other countries nearby. But there was some, like strike from the rickshaw drivers. And so they're blocking the road in front of us.

00;55;09;14 - 00;55;25;20
Speaker 1
And they said the locals thought they were targeted. We said, okay, be like an eight hour detour to get around. They like really knew where to block the road, where to cause problems. And it didn't look like we were going to get through. But then we saw this convoy of these military vehicles came in to try to break the strike.

00;55;25;22 - 00;55;45;04
Speaker 1
And so they came through and the rickshaw drivers kind of institute inched away so the military guys could go and negotiate. But so we just tailed right behind that guy, like six inches behind his bumper. And the rickshaw drivers tried to close the gap right behind him, but our car was much bigger than a little rickshaw, so I just accelerated and they just backed out of the way.

00;55;45;06 - 00;55;57;23
Speaker 1
So we got through. I mean, maybe what they were protesting was a valid cause, but I didn't really want to get too worried. So not not we're not responsible.

00;55;58;04 - 00;56;18;17
Speaker 1
Nice. All crazy. Guys, it's such an honor to talk to you guys. I think, you guys have such an a unique story, and, you know, least to my knowledge, it doesn't seem, super widespread, or people aren't, like, super aware of your guys's project and things you guys are doing. So I really wanted to give you guys a chance to to share your story and just let the world know kind of what you guys are up to, because it's

00;56;20;18 - 00;56;22;18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Thanks a lot.

00;56;25;02 - 00;56;45;04
Speaker 1
That concludes today's episode, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. It really means a lot to me that you're here. If you like today's episode, please be sure to rate and review the show. This simple gesture helps the algorithm share this podcast with new listeners. Please also personally share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is honestly the best way to support the show.

00;56;45;07 - 00;57;06;05
Speaker 1
If you're psyched about what we're doing here at The Climbing Majority, please reach out. DM me via Instagram or email me at the Climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com. I want to hear from you. And don't forget you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Stay tuned for our next episode where I sit down with a Pacific Northwest local legend, Wayne Wallace.

00;57;06;07 - 00;57;15;09
Speaker 1
Until then, keep exploring, stay safe. And as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. I will see you all in two weeks.