76 | My Path To Happiness Part II w/ Tyler Karow

Welcome to Part II of our conversation with Tyler Karow. If you missed Part I, I highly recommend checking it out before continuing here.

Tyler Karow has built a highly engaged following on YouTube and Instagram, to the point where many might label him as an influencer. While his impact on the climbing community is undeniable, Tyler is quick to distance himself from the typical “influencer” role. Constantly promoting products or leaning into that stereotype is the furthest thing from his goals. He believes that his ability to capture the raw adventure and authentic connections he experiences during his climbs is what ultimately draws people to his content . Tyler takes pride in sharing these stories and feels grateful that they resonate deeply with so many.

For Tyler, adventure is the core of his content, but that doesn’t always mean taking more risks. He emphasizes that adventure can be found anywhere—whether its a beginner tackling their first 5.7 or a group questing out to rarely accessed boulder fields. It's about pushing beyond your comfort zone into the unknown. For Tyler, these moments are critical to living a fulfilled life—fueling self-improvement, self-discovery, and happiness.

We wrap up our conversation with Tyler’s future plans to return to Patagonia. With bold objectives like Cerro Torre on his list, he's gearing up for another chapter of wild adventure and plans to bring us all along for the ride.

----

Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!

The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Please share this podcast with your friends and family. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. If you enjoyed the show we’d appreciate it if you could rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.

We are always looking for new guests. If you or someone you know would be a great fit for the show please don’t hesitate to reach out. You can reach us on IG or email us directly @ theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

---

Resources

Tyler's Website

Tyler's Youtube Channel

Tyler's Instagram

Gastronomic Big Wall Climbing in Patagonia

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:24 Athlete vs. Influencer
• 8:47 Tyler As A Creator
• 22:04 How Our Community Could Improve
• 30:06 Adventure vs. Climbing Hard
• 38:39 Future Plans

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:28:04
Unknown
Have you ever felt that most climbing media only tell stories about what's happening at the pinnacle of the sport? Leaving the stories of everyday climbers untold. I'm Kyle and I'm Max, and we believe that there is a growing group of climbers that want representation, and we are here to give them a voice. Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where we capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes around the world.

00:00:28:09 - 00:00:32:10
Unknown
Come join us as we dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.

00:00:34:07 - 00:00:43:02
Speaker 1
Welcome back, everybody, and welcome to part two of our conversation with Tyler Carrow. If you missed part one, I highly recommend checking it out

00:00:43:02 - 00:00:58:10
Speaker 1
before continuing here. As you probably know or might not know, Tyler has built a highly engaged following on YouTube and Instagram to the point where many of us might label him as an influencer. While his impact on the climbing community is undeniable.

00:00:58:12 - 00:01:25:05
Speaker 1
Tyler is quick to distance himself from the typical influencer role, constantly promoting products or leaning into that stereotype at all is the furthest thing from his goals. He believes that his ability to capture the raw adventure and authentic connections he experiences during his climbs is what ultimately draws people to his content. Tyler takes pride in sharing these stories and feels grateful that they resonate deeply with so many.

00:01:25:07 - 00:01:56:12
Speaker 1
For Tyler, adventure is the core of his content, but that doesn't always necessarily mean taking on more risk. He emphasizes that adventure can be found anywhere, whether it's a beginner tackling their first 5 or 7, or a group questing out to rarely accessed boulder fields. It's about pushing beyond your comfort zone into the unknown. For Tyler, these moments are critical to living a fulfilled life, fueling self-improvement, self-discovery, and ultimately, our happiness.

00:01:56:14 - 00:02:10:22
Speaker 1
We wrap up our conversation with Tyler's future plans to return to Patagonia with bold objectives like Sarah Tory on his list. He's gearing up for another chapter of Wild Adventure, and he plans to take us all along for the ride.

00:02:23:18 - 00:02:39:21
Speaker 1
I think I want to steer, the rest of this conversation towards media and your YouTube channel and social media. and the way I'm going to preface this topic is, this, like, so we're the

00:03:23:13 - 00:03:27:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I. Yeah.

00:03:41:15 - 00:03:42:22
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. I think

00:03:42:23 - 00:03:51:11
Speaker 2
whenever I hear the word influencer, I really cringe. I really, like, avoid wanting to be titled as such a thing.

00:03:51:11 - 00:03:53:05
Speaker 1
I feel influenced by you, Tyler.

00:03:53:04 - 00:03:56:12
Speaker 2
Dang far.

00:03:56:14 - 00:03:56:22
Speaker 1
but I.

00:03:56:22 - 00:04:24:10
Speaker 2
Also, I fully understand that I, I am to some degree. It's like I, I put content on the internet and and you know, people are influenced by that content. So objectively that defines that is the definition of an influencer. and because I have sponsorships and, you know, I, I, I am an influencer. However, I try really hard to avoid selling product and advertising product on my social media.

00:04:24:18 - 00:04:44:00
Speaker 2
and I have like, really, I mean, I get people reach out to me and say like, oh, okay, I'll give you this for free if you do this or whatever and, or certain companies. And I've made it super clear with all the companies that I work with that I really want to avoid, being an influencer and and promoting product in that way.

00:04:44:00 - 00:04:58:01
Speaker 1
that a little bit? So. Like what? What is it in particular about that? Let's let's just take this first. So let's say it's a product you genuinely love. You believe in, and you think it's rad.

00:04:58:16 - 00:05:05:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:05:05:03 - 00:05:09:09
Speaker 1
No, that that.

00:05:09:11 - 00:05:10:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:05:10:23 - 00:05:35:14
Speaker 2
Great question. So like that sort of thing. If there's a product that I use a lot and I'm, I'm like, this is awesome and I fully support it, I have no issue promoting that product. it's, it's like I just I don't have an aspiration to be the person trying to sell people on stuff. If there's a really, really awesome product that I love.

00:05:35:16 - 00:05:51:17
Speaker 2
and, and, you know, a sponsor of mine's like, hey, can you, can you give a call out or shout out to this product? Like, I have no problem doing that. And when I was down in to our sell, planet Patagonia sponsored that trip. And I think I made a post like, hey, like, want to thanks, Patagonia.

00:05:51:17 - 00:06:20:00
Speaker 2
And like, want to call out, like, you know, me being psyched on all their gear. I genuinely believe that Patagonia makes the best, the best alpine climbing gear, out there. And and like, I did it in kind of my way, right? Like, I had an entire post just dedicated to that. But the idea of of, like, I don't know, like slightly putting, putting hashtags in and like trying to influence people like, through consistently through every post.

00:06:20:00 - 00:06:51:13
Speaker 2
That's just not quite my scene. and I'm not particularly interested in that. And yeah, I'm packing it further. It's like, I don't really I don't necessarily like the path of being a professional climber and and selling products and posting about products to make a living. That doesn't interest me. and it's not something that I want. and I don't, I don't know, I don't have, like, I can't really necessarily articulate why it's not something I want, but it's I just I definitely know it's not something I want.

00:06:51:15 - 00:07:17:16
Speaker 2
however, like, I really, really enjoy the process of working with Patagonia to develop new products and to, you know, help them market new products, particularly with content, by giving them content. And that's something that aligns with my interests. so I don't know, it's it's complicated. And I'm still trying to honestly, I'm still trying to figure out exactly where I stand on a lot of these subjects.

00:07:17:16 - 00:07:20:23
Speaker 2
It's kind of a new a new world for me, to some degree.

00:07:21:00 - 00:07:31:18
Speaker 1
I mean, it kind of just sounds like you just want it to be, like, genuine or organic, you know? Not like. Oh, we need you to promote this product that you don't use or believe in today. And you're like, oh, hey, I'm Tyler Crowe,

00:07:33:22 - 00:07:39:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:07:39:12 - 00:07:49:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:07:49:10 - 00:07:49:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:07:49:17 - 00:07:51:14
Speaker 2
Well, actually.

00:07:51:16 - 00:07:55:19
Speaker 1
We.

00:07:55:21 - 00:08:15:13
Speaker 2
We actually did. Or you months here did kind of get like and hooked up. This this dude is this I was that this this, like, hardly strictly this bluegrass festival in San Francisco. And there's this guy came up to me like, yo, dude, like, I want to, like, hook you guys up with wine. And I've been to this winery and.

00:08:15:15 - 00:08:16:02
Speaker 1
You can.

00:08:16:02 - 00:08:24:17
Speaker 2
See there have been to this winery, and they've given us a bunch of free wine. It's really cool. So that's I don't know, but that's like a, yeah, cool situation.

00:08:25:11 - 00:08:29:09
Speaker 1
you have. Wine was a huge part of my life in the climbing world, and I had a way to get it for free, I would

00:08:30:16 - 00:08:42:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And it's really good. It's like good wine and it's like, ethically, it's like a, I don't know, it's source. Well, it's, Yeah. Better like wines. So check them out there. Yeah. There's a, there's a call out or.

00:08:42:03 - 00:08:46:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, there's a. Yeah.

00:09:06:14 - 00:09:08:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's fair.

00:09:08:00 - 00:09:13:20
Speaker 1
okay? So, as a professional, video producer and photographer like that, like,

00:09:16:04 - 00:09:31:00
Speaker 1
so, like, how do you view, documentaries like Free Solo and Dawn wall, like professional documentaries that, like, capture the essence of climbing in a very cinematic way. Like, do you look down on them, or is it just something that you're personally not interested in creating?

00:09:31:03 - 00:09:52:18
Speaker 2
I definitely don't look down upon them. I, I I've watched free solo and I've watched the dawn wall. And I've thought to myself, wow, those are incredible films. And they're beautifully made. And the people that that film them, edited them, produce them, directed them, etc., like, those are artists and that's like really badass. And people who are putting out content that's that's fine tuned and edited.

00:09:52:20 - 00:10:21:14
Speaker 2
I have a lot of respect for those people. and I have a lot of respect for them because I for one, because I enjoy the content, but also because I know I, I, I do not have the skills to do those things. and I've tried to some degree to do them in the past. the reason why I take some pride, I guess, in my like, I think my, my YouTube channel and the content that I produce is it's just a totally different style.

00:10:21:16 - 00:10:48:14
Speaker 2
it's just, like a very raw, uncut, unedited style. And, I take pride in that because I guess to some degree, like, I don't know, it's just, I enjoy making those videos. It's been, like, very fun for me to make those videos. And, the pride stems from the fact that people actually like them, which I was.

00:10:48:13 - 00:11:05:20
Speaker 1
you know, take that away from you at all, and I. I enjoyed watching, the film itself, so, I think that a lot of that speaks to. I mean, what you're actually doing, like, you are doing something absolutely remarkable and something that someone has no idea. Like what?

00:11:05:20 - 00:11:10:00
Speaker 1
It's about. And so, like, the story really pulls it all together and you're capturing,

00:11:11:17 - 00:11:42:22
Speaker 2
Totally. It's like I would agree. It's the reason why people like it is because it's more about the actual. It's more about the actual content. Or like maybe let me rephrase that, not the content. It's more about the, the endeavor than it is about the, the content or the esthetics of the film. and yeah, I think like a lot of times people watch these, these finely edited climbing videos and they, they actually don't understand.

00:11:43:00 - 00:12:03:09
Speaker 2
They don't. They're like, well, that's really cool. But like, you don't really understand what's going on in the actual climb or oftentimes, I mean, you asked if I look down upon these films at all and, I generally don't, but there certainly are films that I'm like, wait a second, that's like, they're climbing on the wrong mountain. That's not an accurate depiction of what's going on.

00:12:03:09 - 00:12:22:01
Speaker 2
For example, the the line across the sky that like I watch I've seen that movie a bunch of times. It's the, the, Tommy and Alex doing the, it's traverse. it's it's it's so cool and so inspiring. But if you actually spent time down in Patagonia, you're like, what the fuck? That's not that fits diverse. Like, they're like climbing on.

00:12:22:03 - 00:12:22:13
Speaker 1
They're like.

00:12:22:13 - 00:12:37:05
Speaker 2
They're like approaching the Tory Valley and they're like climbing on Rafael. A bunch of those scenes were filmed after they did the actual Fitz tours. and I think that's lame, to some degree. but whatever. I mean, it's like, that's that's.

00:12:37:10 - 00:12:38:02
Speaker 1
That's.

00:12:38:04 - 00:12:40:04
Speaker 2
The film industry.

00:12:40:04 - 00:12:54:08
Speaker 1
trickery involved in in shooting, in films like, a lot of, like, the biggest thing I always wondered in the very beginning of my career was like, how are you getting a shot of someone climbing, putting their hand on a hold, and then you zoom out to the drone shot of them in the exact same place,

00:12:57:20 - 00:12:59:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:13:09:03 - 00:13:11:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. So.

00:13:15:05 - 00:13:21:09
Speaker 2
And I should clarify, I am I am guilty of that as well. I mean, there's just there's this one instance.

00:13:21:09 - 00:13:21:21
Speaker 1
Where.

00:13:21:23 - 00:13:45:15
Speaker 2
When I climbed, when I climb Golden Gate with, with Emily Warm, we had this amazing experience on the wall, and none of it was photographed or personally content produced. Other than with our with my little GoPro and our iPhones. and when we got down, I mean, we both recognize that this is a pretty significant achievement, for both of our climbing careers.

00:13:45:15 - 00:14:03:14
Speaker 2
And Emily, had we on the way down, we had run into this photographer named Philippe Norden. Fleche. And he he was friends with Emily. And the next day, Emily's like, let's let's hike up today. And like, go take photos on the upper pitches. And I was like, fuck off!

00:14:03:14 - 00:14:04:04
Speaker 1
Like.

00:14:04:06 - 00:14:36:02
Speaker 2
Absolutely, absolutely not. I was not interested. And eventually, she convinced me to we deleted a day had like, we literally got off the wall, got down, had one rest day and then hiked up the next day. I was still so worked. and yeah, we went up there and fixed lines from the top of Golden Gate wrapped in to the route, and shot a bunch of photos on the Golden Desert and on the H5 traverse, and on the, the razor blades pitches three of the upper pitches on the route.

00:14:36:04 - 00:14:52:19
Speaker 2
It was all completely stage. I got some really, really sick photos. They look really cool and I am, you know, I'm grateful for those photos. and I it's kind of funny. I wasn't wearing a helmet. I usually I always climb with the helmet, and I wasn't wearing a helmet for these photos, and I feel like I.

00:14:52:21 - 00:15:07:08
Speaker 2
I'm kind of bummed out that I did that to some degree. I'm like, man, this is encouraging people to do I fully I think people should wear a helmet when they climb. at least like.

00:15:07:10 - 00:15:36:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. And it's it's kind of lame. It's like, but I, I don't know at the time, I just, I this is a few years ago, this is like my first kind of big climbing achievement. And, I actually remember we were hiking up and, Alex Hall was hiking down from, from El Cap, and we ran into him right at the top of the fixed lines, and I jammed the fixed lines first, and he was waiting for, Sony and a bunch of, a bunch of other people to, like, hike down the Honnold.

00:15:36:16 - 00:15:59:13
Speaker 2
Like like, gone up there to, like, deliver some people pizza and end up just hanging out with him for, for like 30 minutes. I remember asking him, I was like, hey, like, what's your opinion on, on doing these sorts of staged, these sorts of stage situations specifically if you're not getting paid or like, you know, like what?

00:15:59:13 - 00:16:17:13
Speaker 2
Like what's the deal? Like, how do you feel about this? And he gave me some interesting advice. He's like, the first time you do it, it's super cool and rad and like, you should totally do it. And then after the first time it like you should, you should get paid or treat it like work or I don't know, it's, I the the opportunity hasn't really come up for me again.

00:16:17:13 - 00:16:35:04
Speaker 2
I haven't really done, like, cool enough stuff to warrant some photographer being like, hey, you should repeat that and get cool photos. But, I'm not particularly interested in, like, restaging climbs for photos if you like. If someone wants to take a photo of me. Matt, climb. I'm doing it. That's cool. But.

00:16:36:00 - 00:16:41:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, I feel like it's cooler to document the experience during the experience.

00:16:41:04 - 00:16:53:13
Speaker 1
what about, social media specifically? That seems like you have, expressed some concerns about the the the medium of content. maybe dive into

00:16:55:09 - 00:16:55:20
Speaker 1
yeah.

00:16:55:22 - 00:17:25:00
Speaker 2
Sure. I feel like I like many people in this world, like, I have a complicated relationship with social media. I don't particularly love it, but I certainly use it. and I certainly benefit from it. There's a lot of pros and cons to social media, and, it's interesting. I feel like my, my current place with social media, I feel like I use it as my public journal, which is kind of fun.

00:17:25:05 - 00:17:47:00
Speaker 2
I like to write long form posts, long form essentially just rambles of how I feel about certain topics or certain climbs. and that's been really fun. but I also find it very, very it's I find it to be a huge time suck. and I think that's really dangerous. I actually don't have Instagram on my phone.

00:17:47:00 - 00:18:08:02
Speaker 2
I just only use it on my computer. And I will if I post something. I'll redownload it on my phone for, like, the post and then immediately delete it again. so it forces me if I like, really need to like check out Instagram on my phone. I'll go on the internet browser, which is like it sucks and off to the point where you're you're not motivated to, like, scroll aimlessly.

00:18:08:04 - 00:18:45:13
Speaker 2
so I think that's like a way, a healthy way for me to manage social media. But I also think it's it's a dangerous it's a dangerous thing. because it, it's this, it's this like tool to compare ourselves to others and it's a tool to, feel left out from certain situations. And I, I remember when, when Snapchat came out, or when Snapchat got popular when I was in college and I remember seeing I remember going to concerts and like, suddenly seeing all these people pull out their phones, and, and start.

00:18:45:15 - 00:18:49:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, it.

00:18:49:13 - 00:19:08:21
Speaker 2
Totally. I mean, do you remember going to a concert in, like, 2011? Like no one took out their freaking phone, but like, suddenly 2013 came and everyone's phone is out and you go to a concert now? I mean, depending on the concert or a party or whatever everyone is, phone is out there trying to document it and it's like, why can't you just get that video from your friend?

00:19:08:22 - 00:19:11:17
Speaker 2
Like, and.

00:19:11:19 - 00:19:14:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. But

00:19:14:09 - 00:19:30:04
Speaker 2
But like I know right quickly recognize it's like suddenly it's like, oh, I want to post this on Snapchat because like, then like, oh, I'm with, like, the cool kids or I'm like, at this cool event and like, I can I can be cool if I post this and let everyone know where I'm at or like, what I'm doing or who I'm with.

00:19:30:04 - 00:19:56:18
Speaker 2
And I thought I found that to be super lame, and not something that I support. And so when Instagram Stories came out, I immediately was like, I'm not participating in this. This is this is essentially Instagram's version to to be competitive with Snapchat in that realm. That's how I saw it. and so I've never really engaged with Instagram Stories.

00:19:56:20 - 00:20:15:19
Speaker 2
and I, you know, I do see value in Instagram Stories now to some degree. And I have used them particularly when promoting events or there's like some short term things like, oh, I'm looking for a ride here, I'm looking for a housing situation or I'm looking, I'm hosting this event, come sign up or buy tickets to this thing.

00:20:15:21 - 00:20:41:18
Speaker 2
I definitely do use Instagram Stories now, occasionally, but I really avoid using Instagram Stories as a form of like showcasing what I'm doing on a regular basis because I, I really don't like the culture of essentially do like showing people what you're doing on a daily basis and bragging about the cool things you're doing. and that's hypocritical because Instagram as a platform is essentially that I'm just like, cool.

00:20:41:18 - 00:20:58:12
Speaker 2
I'm not going to do the short form. I'm going to do the long form, and I'm just going to like, wait a couple more days or weeks and then like, write a longer post about it. And I don't know why, but that makes me feel happier or better, and I could justify it a little bit more. So that's, that's my that's my form of engagement and social media.

00:20:58:12 - 00:21:15:13
Speaker 2
But I definitely shy away from, from that like Snapchat stuff. I don't know if maybe the Snapchat just like gave me a bad vibe in college. And then I ran away from Instagram Stories, but I don't know, I still watch other people's Instagram stories and I'm like, that's really cool. That's like fun to see what your friends are doing.

00:21:15:15 - 00:21:18:16
Speaker 2
and I'm not. I don't want to like shit on it too much. I feel like I'm cheating on a lot of.

00:21:18:16 - 00:21:21:02
Speaker 1
Things in this podcast.

00:21:21:04 - 00:21:28:23
Speaker 2
So I'm not, like, too cynical, but, yeah, I, I think social media is. It's complicated.

00:21:29:06 - 00:21:54:22
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, it depends. I think that is law. Everybody. It's. Everybody has their own relationship with it. And I think that as long as you are expressing yourself in a genuine way and it's not like affecting you too much in a negative way, it's just depends. It's it's personal for each person. I definitely struggle with, the type of content where it's like the template stuff where everybody's just posting the same, same stupid song and doing some stupid dance, or like, there's nothing valuable there.

00:21:54:22 - 00:22:09:15
Speaker 1
Like, if you're going to take the time to post, to try to make something valuable and teach a lesson or something, or share something that's personal. Anyways, climbing specifically, and maybe this is is related to social media, but where do you feel like our community

00:22:10:16 - 00:22:12:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:22:12:19 - 00:22:47:04
Speaker 2
that's a cool question. I would say that one one thing that just immediately came to my mind is, inclusivity. I think particularly big wall alpine climbing and climbing on El Cap is like one of the whitest male list types of climbing of all time. and it's, it's I mean, I'm a white dude, so I'm, you know, I'm and I enjoy that type of climbing and almost all my partners are white dudes, or like, white women.

00:22:47:06 - 00:23:09:09
Speaker 2
And I think that, it wasn't ever something on my mind when I started climbing. But as I've planned, more and more and more of, like, recognized that it's pretty cool to have diverse diversity within climbing, and it's pretty cool to make different spaces within climbing feel welcome to different types of people. and so I think there there could be a lot of progress made.

00:23:09:11 - 00:23:24:15
Speaker 2
I would like to see Alcott become less white. I think it's like the whitest crag in the world. so that's, you know, one thing where I think there could be some progress made. I think there's a lot of advantages to having a diverse climbing body. and I also recognize that there's a lot of hurdles to that.

00:23:24:15 - 00:23:47:06
Speaker 2
And ultimately, when you don't have many, many role models to look up to, like, it's big wall climbing and big wall alpine climbing is very prohibitive. It's very cost prohibitive. It's very time prohibitive. You have to have you have to have money. You have to have time. and you have to have access to these places that are typically far away from urban environments.

00:23:47:08 - 00:24:18:18
Speaker 2
and so it's not particularly conducive to a diverse, diverse mix of humans, participating. But yeah, I think that's slowly changing. And, I, yeah, I, I encourage that, you know, I hope it I hope it changes. And, you know, I'm not doing too much, but I've, you know, participated in, like, the 70 United event cooked for 150 people last, last year, 70 United, which is a pretty cool event, that kind that kind of tries to make a difference in that realm.

00:24:18:18 - 00:24:32:05
Speaker 2
And, Yeah, that's that's one thing that I think it would be pretty cool if it changed in kind of a, I don't know necessarily would I don't know if it would be considered a problem, but just. Yeah, something that I would hope to change.

00:24:32:05 - 00:24:56:17
Speaker 1
aspect of that as, like, the greatest barrier? Or do you think there's, like, cultural choice going on in there? Like what? What do you view as, like the barrier for that? Because, like, hypothetically, like playing devil's advocate, you could be like, well, you could get like a support draw and share a trad rock with a friend and live like a total greaseball dirtbag for like some, you know, $1,000 and you could get into climbing.

00:24:56:17 - 00:25:18:01
Speaker 1
So like in relatively like compared to football or hockey or lots of other sports or like buying brand new basketball shoes all throughout, like, high school career or something. You know, other sports where you do actually see like, not necessarily, greater diversity of ideas, but a diversity of, of people, if that makes sense. Like, as far as, like the racial aspect of that goes.

00:25:18:03 - 00:25:22:08
Speaker 1
So I'm just wondering, like in the devil's advocate there, like, what do you think is

00:25:25:14 - 00:25:44:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Great question. it's definitely not only the money. and I also very much agree with you in that there's a lot of people that are like, oh, I'm not going to get into trad climbing or big wall climbing or whatever, because it's like a huge financial hurdle. And I and a lot of people are also like, oh, I'm not going to travel internationally for climbing because I think it's a huge financial hurdle.

00:25:44:18 - 00:26:03:13
Speaker 2
But it there's always ways. I mean, the dirt bags are there, they're they're real. And you can you can climb for very, very cheap and you can borrow lots of gear and you can travel for very, very cheap. And, you know, it's funny, it's like I've traveled a lot around the world and I've traveled for like, less than what?

00:26:03:13 - 00:26:27:02
Speaker 2
People paying rent and many cities per month. so I don't think that's necessarily a good excuse yet. a lot of people don't know how to travel that way, and a lot of people don't know how to acquire gear and live in those ways that that knowledge is not readily available and accessible to people. and a lot of people will just, you know, you're just trying to get into climbing or you don't really know much about it.

00:26:27:03 - 00:26:45:10
Speaker 2
You you look on the internet and you say, oh, cool, cam. Like, what is that? A it's a $80, $100 I need. How any of those to climb up I like that's a lot of money. They don't recognize that. Oh maybe if I get super psyched on climbing and just, you know, start really small and buy something, use a mountain project and then go build a bunch of gear in Joshua Tree.

00:26:45:10 - 00:27:26:08
Speaker 2
Like it could eventually acquire a large trad rock and borrow portal legend, make it work for very little money. I think it's like that's not obvious to a lot of people, but I'd say the primary reason why that's that type of climbing, is not very diverse is, is the more the role model component, there's just not a lot of, I mean, if you're, if you're, a black dude or black woman and you're like, choosing the activities you want to do, you know, it's it's it's it's more it's it's unlikely that you would choose an activity that's historically done by a bunch of white dudes.

00:27:26:09 - 00:27:46:16
Speaker 2
and having role models is really important. And there's a lot of really rad organizations, and people that are kind of stepping up and doing that. And, I think that's really cool. But I think until there's, you know, consistent group of, you know, diverse climbers that are getting into that realm, it's it's going to be sparse.

00:27:46:16 - 00:27:50:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, I think that's really fair. Like, we interviewed, Eddie Taylor,

00:27:52:07 - 00:27:55:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally.

00:28:21:17 - 00:28:41:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. I would totally agree with Eddie and I. It's like there's always exceptions and there's, you know, there's always ways to go about things and, you know, do things you totally get into it if you're motivated and, and like, there's there's barriers that you can cross. But just in general it's there's a lot more barriers. There's a lot less barriers.

00:28:41:08 - 00:28:43:23
Speaker 2
If you're a white dude.

00:28:43:23 - 00:28:46:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:29:19:14 - 00:29:42:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally. Totally the latter. I definitely have not experienced, like, some weird gatekeeping thing. I mean, my my experiences of the climbing community is, is quite, quite open and welcoming. and the people among it are, are pretty progressive. and for the most part, and most people are like, would be stoked to, to see like a more diverse.

00:29:42:08 - 00:29:46:16
Speaker 2
It's just that, yeah, it's really just the role model thing. That's that's what I'd say.

00:29:46:16 - 00:29:53:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, that's totally fair. That's a I think a good point to say that, like, there aren't a whole bunch of evil white dudes on El Cap.

00:29:53:12 - 00:30:01:21
Speaker 2
I mean, I'm sure there's I'm sure they exist. Yeah, I'm sure they exist. But for the most part, no.

00:30:01:23 - 00:30:05:15
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:30:52:06 - 00:30:52:19
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:30:52:19 - 00:31:20:12
Speaker 2
That's, there's a lot to unpack there. and I think it's interesting historically, if, you know, if you go back 50 years, kind of before sport climbing got popular, climbing was really purely an adventure sport. It was. It didn't really matter. People weren't interested in, like, the hardest move you can necessarily climb to some, you know, and in some respects, there's always people pushing the limits.

00:31:20:12 - 00:31:55:11
Speaker 2
And that was really cool. But, I think it was way more about the adventure. And nowadays, for a lot of reasons, I do think there is the climbing culture has become quite obsessed with performance. and yeah, bums me out a little bit. I think, I think a lot of people are opting to spend time training to get really strong rather than going and having these adventurous experiences outside.

00:31:55:11 - 00:32:23:11
Speaker 2
But that's cool. Everyone's entitled to to spend their time how they want to spend their time. and I however, I do think it's like a little bit of a shame when I hear, oh man, like, I, I spent my time, my Saturday training in the gym, rather than climbing outside. however, at the same time, now that I'm working this really gnarly job that occupies all this time, I catch myself doing the exact same thing.

00:32:23:11 - 00:32:38:09
Speaker 2
So, you know, I'm a hypocrite. and I, you know, it's more efficient to train in the gym, and sometimes I'm like, oh, man, I only have two hours. I'm going to go to the gym and I'm not going to climb outside because I could get way more done in the gym in my two hours of time.

00:32:38:11 - 00:32:46:22
Speaker 2
or maybe I could only climb a couple of pitches outside if I have to drive all the way to the crag and walk there, blah blah blah. but yeah, in general, I think,

00:32:46:22 - 00:33:01:09
Speaker 2
I think climbers these days are very training centric. I think there's like a huge pressure to, to push your limited to, to climb better grades and have a project and project the shit out of something until you can send it.

00:33:01:11 - 00:33:16:20
Speaker 2
and I don't particularly jive with that with that culture I've never really been into project doing, I think. Yeah, it could be cool. I see the point to it. But for me, if I climb a route, I would rather just climb the route to the left of it next instead of if I. If I climb a route, I fall off.

00:33:16:20 - 00:33:22:00
Speaker 2
I'd rather climb the route to the left of that instead of like retrying the route again. Yeah,

00:33:22:09 - 00:33:25:22
Speaker 1
how closely do you link the word adventure and risk?

00:33:26:22 - 00:33:28:15
Speaker 2
I don't, I don't actually

00:33:28:16 - 00:33:43:21
Speaker 2
I mean, for sure if you say like, oh yeah. Is there more risk in adventure climbing or sport climbing? For sure. There's more risk and adventure climbing, but adventure climbing can just mean it's a broad term. I, I really like that term adventure climbing, because it is.

00:33:43:21 - 00:34:14:14
Speaker 2
It's not it's not like there's not a defined definition of what it is, unlike sport climbing or try climbing or bouldering like you could you could go adventure climbing in that can be bouldering. and that just means, oh, maybe we're going like super far out somewhere where that hasn't that doesn't get climb very often or maybe you're gonna go sport climbing in this like really out there setting and this location where people don't typically climb or we're going to do some first ascents like that is adventure climbing.

00:34:14:14 - 00:34:38:03
Speaker 2
And in, in my opinion, and there is adventure climbing that's very, very safe. And there's also adventure climbing that is very, very risky. and certainly adventure climbing is typically more risky then than like, you know, going to the climbing gym, but, but yeah, I don't think there are they don't necessarily need to be related.

00:34:38:16 - 00:34:47:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. I guess I was kind of trying to make the connection of, that as you. If you took the general population as a whole, I would say the majority of people are risk

00:34:48:14 - 00:34:51:16
Speaker 2
For sure. Totally.

00:35:50:02 - 00:36:12:02
Speaker 2
Totally. And I. I actually really like the fact that you said that because I. I think adventure is all relative to the person pursuing it. And for someone who's never climbed outside before that first day outside, whatever they're doing, climbing that, like very, very safe 5 or 6 sport route like that is a huge adventure. That is. And you know, no one should take that away from that.

00:36:12:02 - 00:36:41:02
Speaker 2
That's an adventure climb for sure. The first time I ever went climbing outside like that's that was that was I got more adventure from that day of sport climbing than I, than I have climbing up, you know, for the whatever doesn't time. and and so yeah, it's, it's, it's all relative and, and, you, you can totally be safe and like, you know, the days where you're like, all right, I'm going to go climb like 30 pitches of sport climb or 20 pitches of some sport.

00:36:41:06 - 00:37:03:22
Speaker 2
So and like that's an adventure day. And you can do that in a super safe format. and yeah, it's just you're right. People are generally risk averse and typically don't choose to, yeah, typically don't choose to to to adventure climb. even though you can adventure climb in a risk free way to some degree.

00:37:04:08 - 00:37:23:23
Speaker 1
I think it also has to do with, like, comfort. People get into their patterns and their routines, and, you know, breaking the cycle and going through personal growth is is hard for some people. And I think there's an element of seeking personal growth. And seeking exploration is kind of like a congruent with each other. And we all find it in different ways and doing new things in the world of climbing

00:37:25:08 - 00:37:33:05
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah, I, I definitely think that people strive for comfort. and that's like a shame.

00:37:34:14 - 00:38:00:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's interesting that, like, it's almost like, Like, effort and reward are kind of like, you know, in tandem. Like on a scale. Like the more effort or suffering you put into something, the more like reward and meaningful the thing usually feels, you know, like within reason, of course, like there's various things where obviously maybe you suffer like way beyond you want, you know, I wouldn't call my accident like very rewarding,

00:38:02:23 - 00:38:05:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:38:05:01 - 00:38:06:14
Speaker 1
know, like, I don't know, some

00:38:06:14 - 00:38:23:04
Speaker 1
of the, the most miserable physical experience that I've ever had are some of the most meaningful that I feel the best because you've you've challenge yourself, you've push yourself through barriers, you've made yourself in this very uncomfortable state. And in the end, you know, those are the experiences that really stick with you.

00:38:24:03 - 00:38:33:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I could not agree more. You're totally right. It's like oftentimes the challenge and the struggle makes the experience even sweeter.

00:38:34:00 - 00:38:54:13
Speaker 1
kind of like steering this towards the the future. you had talked about upcoming Patagonia trip. talk to us about that. What do you have planned? What are you seeking to get out of that? Are you, like, how long are you planning on diving back into your climbing career? How does that tag into your, sponsorships and bring us, is there.

00:38:54:17 - 00:39:26:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I, I actually, I had shoulder surgery, in February, I tore my labrum. I actually dislocated or cellblocks my shoulder climbing on El Cap this past fall. and, I was on the nose climbing with my friend Michelle, and she was blowing me on the lean hill traverse. And typically, you'll like the way you I I've done it subsequently was like, you get to a ball and you yell take and you kind of like lower down and pendulum over to the next bolt.

00:39:26:21 - 00:39:51:01
Speaker 2
it's like a bolt traverse and and, I was just trying to go really fast. And so I actually had, I had a bolt clipped and I was, I had my rope from my tie end point running through the ball. And then I had my hand on the other end of the rope, and I was lowering myself off of the bolt with a ton of slack in the system, just so I could do it faster.

00:39:51:03 - 00:40:15:20
Speaker 2
And I lower myself off to a big jug that I grab with my left hand. And then I let go of the slack, intending to match the jog. I was like, cool, this will be fine. And as soon as I did that, I my body just like flew backwards. like essentially I fell and my left arm on the jug, like, caught my whole body weight and my weight just, like, pull my shoulder out of its socket.

00:40:15:21 - 00:40:16:13
Speaker 2
and then I was like.

00:40:16:13 - 00:40:19:23
Speaker 1
Take, take, take, take, take. And.

00:40:20:01 - 00:40:38:13
Speaker 2
that as soon as, as soon as like like like I was pretty horizontal from the bolt. So I Michelle took and then I let go and I took a big pendulum. And as soon as I felt my shoulder pop back in. So like it was a subluxation. Yeah. and then we were like, you're like, high enough up where we couldn't really bail with one rope.

00:40:38:13 - 00:40:56:01
Speaker 2
So we, like, chilled out for a bit. There are two guys who were in front of us who were like, super kind and like helped me get up the pitch. And there are two doctors, like at two pitches above us. And and Michelle's like, like was like maybe the most one of the most senior members on somebody search and rescue.

00:40:56:01 - 00:41:02:23
Speaker 2
I was with, like, the best people I could have been with. and and, yeah, we decided to bail up.

00:41:03:01 - 00:41:04:02
Speaker 1
because.

00:41:04:04 - 00:41:10:03
Speaker 2
I was like, oh, I could probably just do. Michelle just took over and bled like most of the notes, which was really cool.

00:41:10:23 - 00:41:32:23
Speaker 2
And we still did it in like nine hours or something. and. Yeah, so I that's how I'd cellblocks do it and then actually ended up I like, rested for three weeks and then I climbed the, know, 70 Triple Crown. and then, I it was, it was like unstable the whole time, though. And then I just, like, kept going to the gym and almost dislocating it.

00:41:32:23 - 00:41:53:22
Speaker 2
And then eventually was. And then I fully dislocated it climbing on a kilter board. and then I went to get, I got an MRI and were like, yeah, for sure, for sure. Surgery. So I've been recovering from that. I'm still not recovered. It's actually been a super frustrating, recovery experience. It's been very, very slow. I have not been able to climb at my limit.

00:41:54:00 - 00:42:22:09
Speaker 2
and it's been I don't know, I guess like over six months now. but yeah, my future, is essentially just working really hard through December. probably trying to get in some, some, some weekend warrior missions to somebody assuming my shoulder is, like, doing well. And then I'll go down to Patagonia for three months. and I have a bunch of different things I'm stoked to try.

00:42:22:09 - 00:42:46:02
Speaker 2
I would really like to climb territory and would like to climb a bunch of other big mountains there. And, yeah, super excited for that. And then I'll come back up and probably start a life of like, you know, working or climbing and climbing a little bit. But, yeah, Patagonia is the main thing. It's like the big the big trip on my horizon.

00:42:46:04 - 00:42:51:19
Speaker 2
and kind of just like, yeah, ready to indulge after all this work.

00:42:51:20 - 00:42:55:22
Speaker 1
It's awesome. And.

00:42:58:17 - 00:42:59:21
Speaker 1
Well, I mean.

00:42:59:21 - 00:43:01:18
Speaker 2
It's like a I've.

00:43:01:20 - 00:43:03:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.

00:43:03:12 - 00:43:10:16
Speaker 2
I don't know, it'd be it's like the big thing I haven't climbed down there.

00:43:11:15 - 00:43:16:13
Speaker 2
No. Definitely not. But luckily I have a partner that's, like, really dialed on the mice.

00:43:16:15 - 00:43:20:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.

00:43:20:19 - 00:43:44:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, it actually depends what route you go up. I like there's a few different ways you can go up the mountain, but if you climb the the southeast ridge, which is like formerly the compressor route, the, the famous route that Caesar Maestri, bolted his way up. you actually can access the summit without climbing the rhyme with, like, the shovel things.

00:43:44:04 - 00:44:07:08
Speaker 2
but the classic west face route, the new route, which is like the the first true time that mountain has ever been climbed, that is, that is essentially a fully a nice climb. and I, I think it's it's mostly relatively moderate, until there's a few hard pitches. And then that last ride pitch is, like, super gnarly.

00:44:07:10 - 00:44:24:22
Speaker 2
for the first person that goes up at the start of the the year or the year or whatever the start of like that, that's that storm. But then as soon as the first person climbs, it apparently like chills out, and isn't as like whoever's climbing at second and third or whatever. It's like it's way, way chillier.

00:44:24:23 - 00:44:29:15
Speaker 2
I've never climbed it, so I actually, I don't really know. I'm just kind of spewing what I've heard.

00:44:29:16 - 00:44:32:11
Speaker 1
Hayden Kennedy chopped all the bolts on the compressor out right.

00:44:33:15 - 00:44:58:02
Speaker 2
not all of them know, no. So the I would recommend for people interested in this subject at Rec, I'd highly, highly recommend people reading, the book called The Tower by, like, Kelly Cortez. it's a incredible book that documents the full history of territory. that's, like, definitely the best resource to, like, get the full story.

00:44:58:02 - 00:45:26:14
Speaker 2
It's really fascinating. But the, the the short summary is that Hayden Kennedy and Jason Kruk, they they didn't freak climb the southeast ridge, but they climbed it by fair means, meaning that they they did not they did not pull on any of the bolts for upward progress. as they climbed that ridge, however, they did use some of them for protection, and they use them to repel.

00:45:26:16 - 00:45:46:21
Speaker 2
but essentially what like what happened was the dude drilled, took an air compressor and drilled a bolt every like, I don't know, 3 to 5ft. I'm not sure the distance I haven't, I haven't actually been up there, but but yeah, it was kind of like a catastrophe to some degree. And people were just like, you just you're just like VFR all your way up the mountain.

00:45:46:23 - 00:46:03:02
Speaker 2
and that's like a bit of a shame in my opinion. so, yeah, they those two dudes chopped many of the bolts on the route. Not all of them, and made it impossible to via for all of your way up the route. You actually had to use your hands and feet to kill climate. and you still.

00:46:03:02 - 00:46:12:20
Speaker 2
And I think it's been two free ascents ever, like David Lama and Peter, like a boy or something like that. They they free climbed it and then.

00:46:13:20 - 00:46:31:19
Speaker 2
Josh Horton, Mikey Shafer and, one other dude, I forget his name. They, they have free climb that as well. And that's. That'd be a really cool dream. But, yeah, I think just climbing it by fair means would be, would be pretty rad.

00:46:32:02 - 00:46:51:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, it'd be, it'll be cool. I mean, hopefully, hopefully that happens. I don't know, it's like you go down there and you I've gone down there a couple times, and every time I've gone down there I've had like an idea of I want to do. And I've never actually really done exactly what I want to do. It's everything gets changed and modified and.

00:46:51:04 - 00:46:54:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, sure. Exactly.

00:46:54:13 - 00:47:06:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:47:06:16 - 00:47:14:08
Speaker 1
you and the people that support you, like, do you have anything, to say about to them or about climbing or in general?

00:47:16:02 - 00:47:37:16
Speaker 2
I guess I would just say stay psyched. That's like the most important thing a lot of people are like. Also, actually, maybe this is a little bit of a dive. I'll do. But, a lot of people are always like, oh, like, how do you get really strong at climbing and do these big objectives? like, I'm going to go to the gym and train really hard, and that's how I'm going to get to, like, that's how I'm going to get strong enough to climb El Cap.

00:47:37:16 - 00:48:06:23
Speaker 2
And I, I would argue that the best way to get better at climbing is to be really freaking psyched. And if you're really freaking psyched, you will get like, you know, if that's like as authentic, the motivation to go push your limits and climb outside and, and do these things, or train in the gym or whatever, like it's it's heightened to the degree in which you can suddenly push your push yourself to a place where you previously didn't think you would ever be.

00:48:07:00 - 00:48:28:17
Speaker 2
and I really think that the having high psych levels, that's just that's so key to, to life, but also to climbing specifically. So, yeah, that'll be my message. My message to people. Just stay psyched and keep still. Kind. Yeah. Share, share. So I can share, share. So.

00:48:30:01 - 00:48:48:11
Speaker 1
That concludes today's episode. Everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you'd like to learn more about Tyler, check out his YouTube channel where you'll find raw and real climbing adventure films. Also, you can check out the links in our show notes. Just a reminder, please share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is the best way to support the show.

00:48:48:13 - 00:49:07:00
Speaker 1
Plus, don't forget you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Stay tuned for our next episode that involves some recent updates to the direction of our show and our beloved co-host, Max carrier. Until then, keep exploring, stay safe. And as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. See you in two weeks.