The Climbing Majority
Most of today’s climbing media is focused on what happens at the edges of the sport involving the most experienced and talented climbers in the world. Your hosts Kyle Broxterman and Max Carrier believe that most of these stories and experiences do not directly relate to the majority of climbers that now exist. Thanks to gyms, the Olympics, and mainstream media coverage a vast growing group of people are now discovering this magical sport. As a part of this group, they are here to give this new Climbing Majority a voice. Tune in as they explore the world of climbing, through the lens of a non-professional.
The Climbing Majority
75 | My Path To Happiness Part I w/ Tyler Karow
I'm sure we've all been there—the dream of living a life solely dedicated to climbing: sponsorships, life on the road, making a living through our passion for the sport. For many, this represents the ultimate freedom. Often, this grand vision captures us in our early climbing years, yet it seldom holds much reality. Attracting sponsors and dedicating your life entirely to climbing requires something truly special. For most of us, this dream starts to feel one-dimensional, perhaps even a little unrealistic. Climbing, as fulfilling as it is, can sometimes no longer be the clear answer to all of life’s questions—because in reality, we have other ambitions, other passions to fulfill, other goals to achieve.
But what if you had sponsors and created a thriving climbing YouTube channel? Would you still feel there was something more out there for you, or would you seize the opportunity and dive fully into a life dedicated to climbing?
Today, we're sitting down with Tyler Karow, a climber who finds himself at these very crossroads. Despite his success on Youtube and his recently acquired sponsorships, Tyler has chosen to step back from the singular pursuit of climbing to focus on something bigger—a life that balances his passion for climbing with broader ambitions, a life that is truly meaningful and fulfilling for him.
For Tyler, climbing has always been about more than just the performance. It's about the adventure, the connection, and the shared experiences that enrich our lives both on and off the rock. From tackling serious alpine routes in Patagonia to bivvying with good food and wine, climbing has fostered deep friendships and unforgettable moments for him. But even with this strong connection to the sport and opportunities most of us could only dream of, he has found himself questioning whether climbing alone is enough. His journey speaks to a broader question that many of us face: How do we balance our love for climbing with our other ambitions, responsibilities, and long-term goals?
Tyler’s story is a compelling reminder that climbing doesn’t have to be the only path. He’s finding a way to integrate his passion for the sport with a vision for the future that goes beyond the rock, allowing him to pursue both adventure and purpose in his life.
His story also reminds us not to take life or climbing too seriously…because in the end life is short. We might not live tomorrow….so let’s be sure to make the most out of today.
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Don’t forget to check out our full video episodes on Youtube!
The TCM movement is growing but we need your help to spread the word! Please share this podcast with your friends and family. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show. If you enjoyed the show we’d appreciate it if you could rate and review us on your favorite podcatcher.
We are always looking for new guests. If you or someone you know would be a great fit for the show please don’t hesitate to reach out. You can reach us on IG or email us directly @ theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
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Resources
Tyler's Website
Tyler's Youtube Channel
Tyler's Instagram
Gastronomic Big Wall Climbing in Patagonia
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:28:04
Unknown
Have you ever felt that most climbing media only tell stories about what's happening at the pinnacle of the sport? Leaving the stories of everyday climbers untold. I'm Kyle and I'm Max, and we believe that there is a growing group of climbers that want representation, and we are here to give them a voice. Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast, where we capture the stories, experiences and lessons of nonprofessional climbers, guides and athletes around the world.
00:00:28:09 - 00:00:32:10
Unknown
Come join us as we dive deep into a more relatable world of climbing.
00:00:34:05 - 00:00:43:02
Speaker 1
I'm sure we've all been there. The dream of living a life solely dedicated to climbing. Sponsorships. Life on the road. Making
00:00:43:02 - 00:01:02:15
Speaker 1
a living through our passion for the sport. For many of us, this represents the ultimate freedom. Often this grand vision captures us in our early climbing years. Yet it seldom holds much reality. Attracting sponsors and dedicating your life entirely to climbing requires something truly special.
00:01:02:17 - 00:01:28:07
Speaker 1
For most of us, this dream starts to feel one dimensional, perhaps even a little unrealistic. Climbing, as fulfilling as it is, can sometimes no longer be the clear answer to all of life's questions. Because in reality, we have other ambitions, other passions to fulfill, and other goals to achieve. But what if you had the sponsors and created a thriving climbing YouTube channel?
00:01:28:09 - 00:02:04:10
Speaker 1
Would you still feel like there was something more out there for you? Or would you seize the opportunity and dive fully into a life dedicated to climbing? Today we're sitting down with Tyler Carro, a climber who finds himself at these very crossroads. Despite his success on YouTube and his recently acquired sponsorships, Tyler has chosen to step back from the singular pursuit of climbing to focus on something bigger a life that balances his passion for climbing with broader ambitions, a life that is truly meaningful and fulfilling for him.
00:02:04:12 - 00:02:35:11
Speaker 1
For Tyler, climbing has always been about more than just the performance. It's about the adventure, the connection, and the shared experiences that enrich our lives both on and off the rock. From tackling serious alpine objectives in Patagonia to living with good food and wine, climbing has fostered deep friendships and unforgettable moments for him. But even with this strong connection to the sport and opportunities that most of us could only dream of, he has found himself questioning whether climbing alone is enough.
00:02:35:13 - 00:03:01:10
Speaker 1
His journey speaks to a broader question that many of us face. How do we balance our love for climbing with our other ambitions, responsibilities and long term goals? Tyler story is a compelling reminder that climbing doesn't have to be the only path. He's finding a way to integrate his passion for the sport with a vision for the future that goes beyond the rock, allowing him to pursue both adventure and purpose in his life.
00:03:01:12 - 00:03:15:19
Speaker 1
His story also reminds us not to take life or climbing too seriously, because in the end, life is short. We might not get tomorrow, so let's be sure to make the most out of today.
00:03:26:15 - 00:03:39:20
Speaker 2
I just work all day. I have this, like, I kind of have a sad life right now where, I live this, like, this dual life where I'm in Truckee part of the time, and then I'm also in Oakland part of the time working on this construction project.
00:03:39:20 - 00:04:09:23
Speaker 2
And the construction project is it's a really incredible opportunity. But it's also really gnarly work. and so, yeah, today I was just on site, like I'd probably had over 50 calls, like just in the morning and, yeah, I was on site all day and actually, I'm gonna get off of this podcast and that I'm going to have, like a 1 to 2 hour meeting with my boss, after this, like, from probably like ten to midnight.
00:04:10:01 - 00:04:29:20
Speaker 2
and that is my life right now, which is like, really unsustainable. I work fucked up hours, and I work really hard. And I do like the job of a lot of people because I'm. I'm like the project manager. I am the architect and the engineer. we do all the engineering, we do all the architecture. It's like.
00:04:29:22 - 00:04:45:21
Speaker 2
It's like a $5 million house. and, yeah, it's like, it's a it's a really cool opportunity, but I'm like, very burnt out and very ready to be done with it. And it ends in December. But I'm just like, until then I'm like, just all in, and I have to just hustle
00:04:45:21 - 00:04:52:18
Speaker 1
So is this kind of like a contract situation where you like assigned? You've been assigned this particular house, and you get to see it till it's finished.
00:04:53:05 - 00:05:19:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. so I work for myself, and I just, like, contracted with this dude, who I know, and he's, like, my kind of mentoring me. It's a it's a really cool opportunity. He. He was the CEO of the company that I used to work for, and. Yeah, now he's just like my mentor and kind of teaching me how to build houses and be a developer and be, an engineer.
00:05:19:02 - 00:05:28:12
Speaker 1
you doing the physical labor yourself, or. You're like delegating Tasso to people? Like, is it really hands on, or is it more like the behind the scenes of, like, you know, you're doing all the paperwork, the calling, the scheduling, like ordering.
00:05:29:07 - 00:05:51:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's like the latter. there is like over 20 people on site today who are doing work. yeah. It's not like it would be. Yeah, it would be silly for me to do work. I really enjoy working with my hands. And I actually used to have my own van conversion business, called Chuckie Danko. And we would build, we build up vans and did all the work myself with my.
00:05:51:01 - 00:05:55:21
Speaker 2
And and it was it was great. But, Yeah, this was a bit of a different situation.
00:05:55:20 - 00:06:04:02
Speaker 1
Gotcha. And so, like, long term, like, what do you want to do out of this? Do you want to start your own like, contracting company? You want to start building houses yourself and do like residential construction?
00:06:04:20 - 00:06:37:03
Speaker 2
yeah. So my my passion is, like, like this long term goal that I've had for many, many years is building tiny home communities and mountain towns. I think there is a huge potential for people to essentially move into, like prefabricated, tiny home communities. And when I say tiny home, I don't mean like 300ft². I mean like it could be 800ft², essentially a home that you can you can build that's fully prefabricated with its own six walls.
00:06:37:03 - 00:07:00:22
Speaker 2
It's like it's a six sided box and typically modular construction. You like, buy a bunch of boxes, are all prefab in a factory. You put them all together, and ultimately it doesn't actually lead to that much cost savings or time savings because you have to set everything up on site. And I think there's this like incredible economic opportunity for people to, build for way cheaper because you can prefabricated, tiny standalone houses.
00:07:00:22 - 00:07:19:13
Speaker 2
And I also think that, like the minimalistic tendencies and desire for people to live in communities, is is like the kind of this will all come together and, and because construction costs are so high and because the cost of living is so high, and particularly in mountain towns, I think there's like a really cool opportunity to to do this tiny home concept.
00:07:19:13 - 00:07:36:05
Speaker 2
And, yeah, the, the guy who I'm working for, he owns a factory in Mexico and Monterrey, Mexico that builds tiny homes. And like a year and a half ago, I told him this idea, like, I started the van business because I wanted to do this. And I told him this idea, like years ago, and he reached out to me.
00:07:36:05 - 00:07:48:11
Speaker 2
He's like, yo, I just started making tiny homes in my factory. You want to partner up together and build a tiny home community in Truckee? And I was like, hell yeah, let's do it. And he's like, he count Truckee. He had a couple meetings and he's like, by the way, do you want to build my house for me?
00:07:48:11 - 00:08:24:16
Speaker 2
I'll teach you how to be a real estate developer. And this guy's like super, super dialed, like he's his engineer. He's like, has every engineering and contractor license and has run a few huge companies, like, many hundreds of people. And, yeah, we're super close. I work with him every day, and he's just, like, teaching me all these things and then set me up with a business partner for the Truckee, the tiny the Truckee Tiny Home Project, and, yeah, now I'm trying to build like 150 units, in Truckee, and do like a big project and essentially be like a real estate developer for, for workforce and affordable housing.
00:08:24:16 - 00:08:27:06
Speaker 2
So that's the that's the goal.
00:08:27:06 - 00:08:36:08
Speaker 1
Man. So are you, like, buying, like, larger lots and then subdividing them and putting, like, individual tiny homes on them is what you're is. I like the concept. Where's it, like, multiple multi-story.
00:08:36:08 - 00:08:38:05
Speaker 1
so the.
00:08:38:07 - 00:09:05:02
Speaker 2
The concept is that, and it's like super it's very much in its infancy and, and certainly will evolve. But, right now we have a piece of property in Truckee. We like negotiated land like the the purchase sale agreement is hopefully going to get signed soon. it's like nine acres and we are going to build a bunch of essentially duplexes.
00:09:05:02 - 00:09:32:17
Speaker 2
So they're stacked units and, they, they will all be for rent. They will not be subdivided in for sale ultimately. Like I'm interested in that going that direction. It's like it aligns with my, my, moral goals. Like, I think homeownership is pretty cool and I think that there's a lot of opportunity for that. But when you have 150 boxes, and like it's way easier to make money when you rent everything out, if you have like that much redundancy.
00:09:32:19 - 00:09:44:15
Speaker 2
And the struggle right now is getting the project to pencil financially and getting financing set up. So it's kind of like we're right now, like we just want I just want to do something and I'm going to do whatever I can to, like, make it financially viable.
00:09:44:15 - 00:09:45:22
Speaker 1
Super cool man.
00:09:45:21 - 00:09:51:09
Speaker 2
yeah, it's super cool. I could nerd out about, housing for a long time.
00:09:51:09 - 00:10:12:02
Speaker 2
It's like, honestly, it's what I mean. I, I'm a licensed general contractor and a licensed civil engineer. and that's like a huge, a huge part of my life. And I did I started, I worked and started working in the construction industry for like, big construction companies in New York City when I was 17. And, and, did that for, for a long time, well, before I climbed.
00:10:12:10 - 00:10:32:02
Speaker 1
Really cool man. Yeah. I think it's, like. Cool, admirable. Seems like a good avenue. Like fulfilling as well to. Right. And then also kind of like ties back into your life as a climber, you know, like helping people in these, like, communities or towns that end up becoming so expensive, you almost kind of like, push people out from being in those communities, right?
00:10:32:04 - 00:10:47:16
Speaker 1
Like here on the West Coast, like BC. It's like Squamish. Whistler. They're so beautiful. They're so amazing. But a lot of people who really do want to like, kind of like dirtbag or live cheaper existences, like you just can't even afford housing there because they just become so expensive, right? Can more be another one?
00:10:47:16 - 00:11:05:16
Speaker 2
it's it's super sad. That's like I could again go on about go off about this for a long time. But Truckee in particular. And a place like Squamish and they, they all have there are so many second homeowners and the so many of these houses sit vacant for the majority of days of the year. And it's
00:11:05:15 - 00:11:17:01
Speaker 2
it's really unfortunate that we live in this like this world where people who are working at, you know, at doing all these, these regular jobs, working at the bike shop or the ski resort.
00:11:17:07 - 00:11:17:18
Speaker 1
Or.
00:11:17:20 - 00:11:44:00
Speaker 2
The climbing store or whatever, they're like, they can't afford to live in this place because there's so much demand and there's a complete lack of housing. And ultimately, like I believe, like from an economic standpoint, the major reason for this is, is, construction costs, like there would be more supply if it was actually, if feasible, to build buildings for people to live for, for low cost.
00:11:44:00 - 00:12:02:00
Speaker 2
But the reality is, no contractor is going to say, hey, I'll totally build like a house for a half $1 million because you're not going to make any money. They're going to build a house for $3 million, and they're gonna make way more money. And people don't want to be doing hard labor anymore. Like construction costs are very expensive.
00:12:02:00 - 00:12:22:22
Speaker 2
Labor costs are very expensive, material costs are very expensive. And yeah, like the reason why there's a housing crisis in California and around the world. and, you know, particularly in mountain towns on the West coast is because construction costs are fucking outrageous and you can't build and you can't increase supply of housing. And therefore, as demand increases, prices go up and people can't afford to live there.
00:12:26:03 - 00:12:30:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. How are your days?
00:12:30:09 - 00:12:51:10
Speaker 1
you, man. I'm, I'm, like a full time student right now, so I'm kind of, like, in between. In the summer term, I'm doing, I just finished, summer vacation with my girlfriend. We went, climbing through, like, the Pacific Northwest, trying to do a whole bunch of volcanoes and scrambling and stuff, and, so, yeah, I just have, had the day off and I go back to work or slash my internship tomorrow.
00:12:51:18 - 00:12:53:06
Speaker 2
Sick. Where'd you guys go?
00:13:23:08 - 00:13:24:03
Speaker 1
Oh, hell yeah.
00:13:24:03 - 00:13:41:08
Speaker 2
That sounds like a great trip. That's a lot of volcanoes. That's. That's cool. Right on. Yeah. I actually ski Mount Adams this year, and, like, I didn't know I needed a permit and then got caught halfway up. but but the ranger is cool about it, so I just, like, got one when I came down.
00:14:02:18 - 00:14:04:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:04:01 - 00:14:04:18
Speaker 1
Right on
00:14:04:17 - 00:14:06:11
Speaker 1
top of ukelele.
00:14:06:11 - 00:14:28:00
Speaker 1
too much, you know, that. Interesting. Went to Zion. Did, like, seven mile hike up to Twin Peaks. got a bunch of really sick photos. probably gonna add it to the to the gallery for the next showing that it's upcoming, like in the next couple months. and then just working on my passions right now because, climbing is kind of, out of the equation, at least for me in the local area, because it's so
00:15:01:15 - 00:15:02:01
Speaker 1
yeah.
00:15:02:01 - 00:15:04:02
Speaker 2
I am technically.
00:15:53:16 - 00:16:16:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's. That's such a good question. and honestly, something I've thought a lot about and something I'm currently like. What the fuck am I doing? I'm, like, taking way too much time away from climbing, and I'm really bummed out about it. yeah. So I, I, I, I worked, started working in the construction industry since I was 17.
00:16:16:05 - 00:16:33:08
Speaker 2
I started working in, like, I started commuting to New York City, right out of high school to work for a construction firm. And that was my life. I like, you know, went to school for civil engineering. right out of college. I worked for, like, an engineering company. And then I worked for kind of like a vertically integrated modular construction company.
00:16:33:08 - 00:16:53:14
Speaker 2
And that was like what I was told was the path to fulfillment was just, you know, working this, like, generic job out of college and climbing was a new thing for me. I didn't I didn't know what climbing was until, I mean, I, I'd gone climbing at some birthday parties and I was a kid, but I didn't really like I have an understanding of what climbing outside was until after college.
00:16:53:14 - 00:17:30:01
Speaker 2
And, it, it was this, like this, this drive that that got me outside or like this, this desire to, I guess. Let me rephrase that. I started climbing, in a gym. I got really, really, really passionate and psyched on it. And then I decided to pursue that full time for three years. And then essentially, like I came to this point where I was running out of money, and I decided that I wanted to do all these other things and had all these other interests, and they were related to building.
00:17:30:01 - 00:17:53:10
Speaker 2
And I quickly realized, all right, like, I had this cool idea of of maybe trying to pursue this tiny home concept and mountain towns. And I was like, all right, maybe like, that could be interesting. I could probably do a project base. I could have a project based career where I can spend some months out of the year climbing full time, but then also dedicate other months working full time, or maybe, you know, do a project.
00:17:53:10 - 00:17:54:16
Speaker 1
Hardcore for.
00:17:54:18 - 00:18:17:10
Speaker 2
Like all in for a year or 2 or 3 and then take a year or 2 or 3 break. and that's kind of the path that I've, I've like started to go down. It's like very, very under like not quite developed yet, but I have I'm currently like 80% of the way done with the project. It's a year and a half construction project.
00:18:17:10 - 00:18:29:06
Speaker 2
And, it wraps up in December. at least I hope it will wrap up in December. I have flights down to Patagonia on December 15th, so it better wrap up by then. My my bosses and farm.
00:18:29:08 - 00:18:30:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, my.
00:18:30:14 - 00:18:32:00
Speaker 2
Boss will be very upset.
00:18:32:02 - 00:18:32:13
Speaker 1
If I.
00:18:32:13 - 00:18:38:23
Speaker 2
If it's not wrapped up by then. but, yeah, I, I think for me, I,
00:18:38:23 - 00:18:57:06
Speaker 2
I love climbing and it's something that I'm incredibly passionate about, but I also recognize that it's not necessarily the path to happiness long term if I solely focused on that. And so yeah, I do have these sponsorship opportunities and I could for sure milk that for a while.
00:18:57:06 - 00:19:27:04
Speaker 2
But I recognize that ultimately, you know, a few years or 5 or 10 years down the road, that wouldn't necessarily lead to me being happy. I'm not like a super elite level climber by any means. And I also have a lot of other interests. And for me to have a fulfilling, fulfilling life, I want to, you know, do I want to contribute to society and do interesting things and hopefully, like make the world a better place and, yeah, climbing, I mean, to be honest, is somewhat of a selfish pursuit.
00:19:27:04 - 00:19:33:13
Speaker 2
And so I just didn't really see it as like a, a perfect track for, for fulfillment.
00:19:34:01 - 00:20:01:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's. It's really interesting. I think that, a lot of people who are just kind of obsessed with this lifestyle of climbing all the time, and the biggest crux for most people is like, well, how do you fund it? Right? How are you supposed to make money as a climber full time? and so it sounds like your, your choice to not pursue climbing full time, even with money on the table and kind of going in another direction.
00:20:01:02 - 00:20:18:04
Speaker 1
like, it's not a, it's like, are you searching for like, financial stability? Like more than what climbing sponsorships can offer you? Like in a, in a way where like, you're like, hey, when I'm 50 or 40, I want to have like a nice house. I want to like, live a comfortable kind of life. I want to provide for my family.
00:20:18:06 - 00:20:26:12
Speaker 1
or is it like something else? Like, is there like a deeper passion that you're, like, searching for and taking time away from climbing for?
00:20:26:14 - 00:20:47:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I think, you know, it's funny, I, like I also should mention I climbed for a pretty much full time for three years, and then I started working again. And that was that decision to work again was unrelated to sponsorships. At that point, I. I was running out of money. I didn't have someone willing to give me money to climb that.
00:20:47:08 - 00:21:14:13
Speaker 2
That kind of came like, you know, a year after, after that decision to start working again. so I was already like a little bit on that path to, to work. But, yeah, I, I think for me, honestly, it's less about the money. I'm, I'm not particularly I have no, I'm not like a realistic human that wants a big house and a fancy car and fancy clothes.
00:21:14:13 - 00:21:19:20
Speaker 2
I love a pretty minimalistic life. I spend a lot of money on food that's.
00:21:19:20 - 00:21:22:04
Speaker 1
Like my primary.
00:21:22:06 - 00:21:39:17
Speaker 2
like, I most of my, I don't know, most of my. I'd say I'm pretty, like, bougie in regard to the types of food I purchase. but other than that, I, I don't really spend very much money at all. It's really like travel and food and yeah, I don't I don't aspire to have a lot of money.
00:21:39:17 - 00:21:56:09
Speaker 2
I think financial stability is important and I definitely crave that. And, you know, I don't I, I think if I were to pursue a life in climbing full time, I don't necessarily think I would get to a point where I'd be financially stable just because I'm not like a elite level climber. So that's one reason I recognize that fact.
00:21:56:09 - 00:22:32:16
Speaker 2
But more so than the money. honestly, I was motivated to to not pursue climbing full time because I, I really enjoy working, to, towards something that I find interesting. And I, I worked a job right out of college that I, I hated, I was completely miserable doing it and found it very unfulfilling. but I've found starting my own businesses and, and doing my own projects, I found I found a lot of fulfillment in that.
00:22:32:18 - 00:22:56:11
Speaker 2
And I think that, this tiny home concept I have of of, of building tiny home communities and mountain towns is, has a lot of potential for, like, making the world a better place, like changing the solving the housing crisis, at least putting a dent in it. and also, you know, potentially providing me with financial stability.
00:22:56:11 - 00:23:12:20
Speaker 2
And that would be really cool if all those things came about. And it would also be really cool if all those things came about and I had time to go climbing, months out of the year because, you know, I could squeeze a trip down in Patagonia in between projects. And that's kind of what I'm doing right now.
00:23:12:21 - 00:23:26:12
Speaker 2
Like, I have a three month trip down to Patagonia from December to March, and then, I'm trying to line up a project after that. and I haven't quite yet, but I'm like, you know, working towards that.
00:23:26:13 - 00:23:44:05
Speaker 1
So how do you fit in? Like, training and preparation and feeling mentally prepared to go down a Patagonia and maybe do. I don't know exactly what your plan like given your previous history, like some fairly serious objectives, like, are you still training like part time even though you have this crazy work schedule? Or how are you fitting that into your life?
00:23:44:05 - 00:23:57:00
Speaker 1
Because I think that's something that so many people, you know, whether you have a family or kids or anything, it's like, that's a total struggle, right? Is like, how do you fit in the training and the lifestyle to maybe have some of these goals when you have the time and the opportunity to do them?
00:23:58:08 - 00:24:21:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally. it's really challenging, honestly. for for the first the first half of my job, I was, I was doing a pretty bad job of training. I've actually never I've never really trained to date. I've never been someone who's like, oh, I'm going to go to the gym with this plan. I've attempted to hang board a few times living in Truckee.
00:24:21:09 - 00:24:36:05
Speaker 2
and I always kind of like, do it for a bit and then, I don't know, like, lose interest or and just and just don't do it. but I've never really had, like, a serious training plan before. I've just gone outside and climbed a lot. actually, last year.
00:24:36:07 - 00:24:37:09
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:24:37:08 - 00:24:43:18
Speaker 1
it's like, still same problem, right? Like, how do you fit that time into the schedule? Like, if you're as busy as you are, right
00:24:43:21 - 00:25:05:17
Speaker 2
Totally. And so now, now I'm like, what I'm doing is I'm like, just trying to be super efficient with my time. And for, for example, I live in Truckee. There's a hill that's 1400 feet, called Trestle Peak. It's like right behind my house. I literally live on the border of National Forest land. in the wintertime, you could put, like, skins on in my living room and skin up this north face.
00:25:05:17 - 00:25:31:08
Speaker 2
It's really, really good skiing. And I'll just. In the morning, I'll wake up and I'll run up the hill and run back down. And it takes like a little bit over 30 minutes and, you know, it's like, cool, just do that in the morning, get a quick workout in. and then, yeah, I actually just started a training program with lattice, just like the first time I've ever started, like an official climbing training program.
00:25:31:08 - 00:25:48:06
Speaker 2
And I was a little bit reluctant to do it, honestly, because part of me was like, part of me is feeling proud. I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna I'm not going to do climbing training. I'm better than that. I'm not going to. Like, I have a lot of opinions about how people train too much and and are too, like performance oriented and focused.
00:25:48:06 - 00:26:16:10
Speaker 2
But I did feel like because of all of the time I I've spent, I'm spending behind a computer and on a construction site. I like, do need to become very efficient with my time in regard to climbing and yeah, having having a training plan week by week and, someone to motivate you to, to continue to push and, and, you know, hit goals and and do your do your sessions is, is, quite helpful.
00:26:16:10 - 00:26:22:13
Speaker 2
So that's actually been pretty good. But my life nowadays is just like a lot of working and a lot of training by myself. It's a little.
00:26:22:13 - 00:26:30:20
Speaker 1
Bit, I don't know, it's sad for us at the moment.
00:26:30:20 - 00:26:40:02
Speaker 1
his cyclical nature of, like, painting houses and then going out and climbing all the time, and then going back to work. I think there's a, like a group of climbers that work seasonally like that, and it tends to work.
00:26:40:02 - 00:26:48:08
Speaker 1
think Jon Krakauer did that as well. He would, like, do carpentry for make a ton of money and then, like, go on a ton of expeditions and stuff, right? Like,
00:26:49:02 - 00:26:52:06
Speaker 1
The.
00:26:52:08 - 00:27:08:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's that's exactly where I'm at right now. I'm just like. I'm currently hustling super hard. like, I work crazy hours and have, like. Yeah, my work situation is honestly kind of unsustainable. It's very unsustainable, isn't it?
00:27:08:13 - 00:27:19:23
Speaker 1
It's. It's kind of tough right now. yeah. But no, it it's, I mean. But it's, it's.
00:27:20:01 - 00:27:37:06
Speaker 2
It's a really, it's just an insane it's a really, really, really good opportunity. And I'm learning so much. And so it's, it's super worth it. and I will there is an end in sight. Finally. if if there wasn't, I'd be completely burnt out. I would absolutely not be able to do what I'm doing, but I'm like, cool.
00:27:37:06 - 00:27:56:02
Speaker 2
I've, you know, less than four months left and I just have to put my head down and like, you know, finish the project and, and train. but yeah, the other cool thing about Patagonia climbing, it's like, it's not like I have to be in, like, 513 or like, you know, like, hard climbing shape to perform down there.
00:27:56:04 - 00:28:22:05
Speaker 2
honestly, you're you're like mental abilities and general mountain knowledge and, like, general climbing abilities and efficiency on rock are way more important. And those are things that are, you know, certainly like they don't go away as quickly as, as hard climbing abilities. and then cardio is actually arguably the most important thing. And I've been pretty good at keeping up with that.
00:28:22:05 - 00:28:44:17
Speaker 2
I'm actually in probably some of the best cardio shape I've ever been. and that's like, I just do a lot of running and I've been getting into biking the summer. I just bike on Saturday. This bike, like, like 65 miles, like a 65 mile, 8200 vertical foot mountain bike like ride called roasted toads and Tahoe. And I'm not a mountain biker.
00:28:44:19 - 00:29:05:16
Speaker 2
it's like the gnarliest terrain I've ever caught on, for sure. And I just followed around some, like, legit mountain bikers, and they were kind enough to, like, let me join them. so I've been, yeah, doing some road biking, some gravel biking, some mountain biking, some running, and then a little bit of alpine climbing. you're in there actually, just do the first ascent in the Sierras, like two weeks ago, which was.
00:29:05:16 - 00:29:30:02
Speaker 2
Which was cool. Yeah. it was this, like, little 500ft spire. I'd ski, I've skied Mount Gabbe, like, twice, which is kind of high at this peak behind Bear Creek spire. And both times I went back there, I noticed this pretty sick looking spire that is, like, very esthetic and clean. And I just skied it with my, my friend Jesse.
00:29:30:02 - 00:29:49:07
Speaker 2
And she's not a climber, but we like when we skied, when we get out to it, I was like, Jesse, I'm gonna for sure climb that this summer. It looks so good. And then, yeah, I went out there and, climb Bear Creek Fire in the morning and just, like, climb this thing. it's like three pitches and 510 minus super, super good.
00:29:49:09 - 00:29:52:00
Speaker 2
Surprisingly good rock for the alpine.
00:29:52:00 - 00:29:54:23
Speaker 1
It's awesome. In.
00:30:03:09 - 00:30:27:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I haven't posted it, like on social media or Mountain Project or anything because I don't 100% know, we like we climbed it and, there was no evidence of a prior ascent. And the rock was like like the crack was definitely, like, crumbly and, like, not ideal in some locations. And there was nothing like we ended up repelling off of the top of it.
00:30:27:01 - 00:30:42:12
Speaker 2
Like there's two ways to get off. You could do this, like kind of sketchy ridge scramble, or you could repel off of the horn, like right at the top of where the route ends. And, there was no evidence of a form of prior repel. And so if there was someone who had gone off of it, they would have presumably done the ridge scramble.
00:30:42:14 - 00:30:54:23
Speaker 2
and I reached out to, Vitaly, who I forget his last name was like, he's Ukrainian. it's like, I don't I don't want to watch it, but starts the name.
00:30:55:01 - 00:31:02:03
Speaker 1
and he's he's. No, I'm okay. but, but, he's he's.
00:31:02:03 - 00:31:20:22
Speaker 2
Like, he's a super prolific for us in the Sierras and I, I sent him some photos and I was like, you know, do you think anyone has planned this thing? And he was like, not to my knowledge. You should reach out to a few more people. So. And I haven't done that quite yet. But yeah, before, like, I don't know, I'll probably post it up and be like, I think I got a first.
00:31:20:23 - 00:31:40:12
Speaker 2
Is that has anyone climb this before? You know, it doesn't really matter. like the experience of climbing something like that for the first time is still like, you know, regardless of if someone has climbed it or not before, it still sits the same thing because you just you walk up to the base and you have no idea, like what what it's going to be like.
00:31:40:14 - 00:31:54:20
Speaker 2
You're like, cool. Is this going to be five, 8 or 512? I have no clue. You have a rack with a bunch of gear on it and you're just questing off. And that's a really, really cool feeling.
00:31:54:22 - 00:32:01:11
Speaker 2
Oh no, no, no, I didn't get that.
00:32:01:13 - 00:32:03:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Well the the.
00:32:03:04 - 00:32:18:17
Speaker 2
Crazy the crazy thing about the Sierras is there's like, there's tons of shit like that. You know, if you just if you're willing to venture out a little bit further, there's lots of, there's lots of prizes and opportunities, but this isn't even that far out. You mean you climb Bear Creek Spire? You just stare at this thing and it's like, whoa, so obvious.
00:32:18:21 - 00:32:32:13
Speaker 1
So so on that note, as a as a climber, you kind of almost alluded to kind of who you are as a climber right there in that statement, in terms of your experience of kind of questing off into this sense of adventure, like,
00:32:32:12 - 00:32:37:16
Speaker 1
how would you define yourself as a climber? What drives you as a climber?
00:32:37:16 - 00:32:39:23
Speaker 1
Like where is the passion in the sport of climbing for
00:32:40:18 - 00:33:08:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's totally. You totally called it out correctly. It's it's the adventure component. I it's funny, I started ski mountaineering. Well, I was a big skier growing up, and then I got into backcountry skiing, and in college. And I got into ski mountaineering after college, and I started climbing specifically to get the skills to supplement my ski mountaineering.
00:33:08:14 - 00:33:29:17
Speaker 2
And I was like, man, it'd be rad. One day if I can climb some five, eight alpine or like go climb Cathedral Peak. I remember hearing about Cathedral Big Peak for the first time. I thought that was like such a cool. That'd be such a cool outing. but I had no desire to climb hard, and I actually laughed at like the like, I like, watch people bouldering and I'd be like, that looks so silly.
00:33:29:17 - 00:33:30:16
Speaker 2
Like, why would you?
00:33:30:18 - 00:33:32:03
Speaker 1
Yeah, like, why would you, like.
00:33:32:05 - 00:33:52:13
Speaker 2
Pull on your fingers and, like, hurt your fingers and that, like, that doesn't look fun at all. and then I started climbing as, like, an after work activity. after my first, my first, like, during my first job out of college and then quickly was like, this is way more fun than skiing. What the fuck was I thinking?
00:33:54:16 - 00:33:59:13
Speaker 2
And I just I just loved it, but I loved it all started with the adventure. Like, for me.
00:34:00:10 - 00:34:26:17
Speaker 2
I've. I've always, like, really, really, really I like, I like, love adventure and partnership. And I'm not particularly motivated by climbing hard grades or ticking off things and not like, oh, I need to like, tick a list. You know, sometimes I, I guess sometimes I am like in Patagonia. I'm like, oh, it'd be really cool to climb like all of the summits of the city skyline, like, you know, that's like, you know, essentially a tick quest for sure that I fell victim to.
00:34:26:17 - 00:34:51:21
Speaker 2
But in general, I'm more interested in going out with someone who I like to spend time with in the mountains and like, go do some long approach, have a really good conversation, and then like go quest up some some adventurous route. that's like the type of climbing that I really enjoy in. those are the type of experiences that I definitely seek.
00:34:51:22 - 00:35:11:17
Speaker 1
At this. I'm glad you brought this up. you've said this I think, multiple times. is that you value the conversations that you have with your partners? do you mind sharing, like, maybe some topics that you like to talk about or like things that your partners and you like, share common interests? Like, it seems like a theme that you've, mentioned a lot.
00:35:11:17 - 00:35:13:18
Speaker 1
So I'm just curious to dive into that a little bit.
00:35:14:23 - 00:35:22:15
Speaker 1
Hey everyone, please like, subscribe and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is the best way to support the show.
00:35:23:22 - 00:35:24:10
Speaker 2
yeah.
00:35:24:10 - 00:35:49:09
Speaker 2
Great question. I, I don't really I don't know, like, I mean, it's totally ranges on the partner and sometimes I don't really even have conversations with certain partners. But the I think it just, it's just life. sometimes it's like gossiping about your friends. Sometimes it's sometimes it's like philosophizing about, like the purpose of, of, life.
00:35:49:09 - 00:36:10:00
Speaker 2
Sometimes it's talking about careers, sometimes it's talking about. It used to be talking about climbing. and ironically, these days I actually don't really talk about climbing very much, even in a climbing context. Like my, one of my, my main partners is this dude. Imanol. He's from the Basque Country. He's like, kind of a really close brother to me.
00:36:10:00 - 00:36:17:02
Speaker 2
And he, like, it's every time we talk about climbing, he's like, what the fuck are we doing? Like, no, no talking about climbing allowed.
00:36:17:02 - 00:36:20:01
Speaker 1
And, it's it's interesting.
00:36:20:01 - 00:36:43:13
Speaker 2
We I don't know, just there's not a particular subject, but, a lot of conversations about life and, you know, like what? What are we doing here and what should we be doing? And, I don't know, different ideas or business ideas or, like, career ideas or talking about women or relationships, just all different things. Yeah.
00:36:43:18 - 00:37:08:15
Speaker 1
Quick question. Just a backtrack here a second. As someone who came from this, like, ski mountaineering background, and then you transitioned to rock. Like, what made you what do you think made you gravitate towards, like, getting into, you know, like, longer endurance rock climbing as opposed to you could almost think from a ski mountaineering background, there'd be a more natural extension for you to become a mountaineer, an ice climber, to augment your, like, ski mountaineering skills, if that makes sense.
00:37:08:15 - 00:37:11:03
Speaker 1
Like, I'm just wondering if you have any insight into that
00:37:11:10 - 00:37:34:19
Speaker 2
Totally. I, I actually initially was, like, really interested in becoming an alpinist. and I remember even referring to that, like, myself as, like, oh, I'm like, I'm going to be an alpinist. I'm going to be like an ice climber. And and that I would watch, like, YouTube videos of people climbing in the Himalayas and, and doing these like, crazy ice mixed ascents.
00:37:34:21 - 00:37:45:07
Speaker 2
and, and that was what I was primarily interested in and, and wanting to do. Right. When I started climbing. And that same year was the year where, like.
00:37:45:09 - 00:37:46:00
Speaker 1
like.
00:37:46:02 - 00:38:18:13
Speaker 2
Everyone in the alpine started dying. it was like there is that huge, like, hand story. Our David Lama, what's the other dude's name? I forget his name, but then, you know, like, you died and all these people just started dying. like, just tons of people started passing away in the alpine. And then I started talking to more people who climb in the alpine and kind of came to this conclusion that it's quite dangerous, and that maybe the risk was a little bit too high for me.
00:38:18:15 - 00:38:20:02
Speaker 2
however, I still.
00:38:20:01 - 00:38:24:17
Speaker 1
That's what I was gonna say. And then you became an alpine rock climber in Patagonia.
00:38:25:01 - 00:38:53:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I, I genuinely think that's it's actually significantly, it's objectively way safer. And in my opinion, as soon as you as soon as you touch snow and ice, you're, you're like, you're just suddenly everything is way more dangerous. and I grew up skiing and I feel very comfortable on snow, and it's kind of interesting, like there's, there's some ice climbers that, you know, didn't really grow up with, with the snow background.
00:38:53:17 - 00:39:12:01
Speaker 2
And you could even just, like, observe, like they might be a way better ice climber then, than me, but, like, just walking to the base of the climb or, like, feeling comfortable in 60 degree alpine ice, like, you know, I feel quite comfortable on low angle ice and just romping around in snow and ice. But, I'm not I'm definitely not an ice climber.
00:39:12:01 - 00:39:30:13
Speaker 2
I'm not like a super dialed part ice climber by any means that I'm. I don't really know how to climb very well, but yeah, I, I've dabbled and I've come to the conclusion that, for me, those activities are a little bit too high risk, and I wasn't really interested in getting into them for, for that reason primarily.
00:39:30:15 - 00:39:51:15
Speaker 2
and I thought that rock was just a way safer medium. And, yeah, a lot of the stuff in Patagonia and a lot of the stuff I'm interested in does have snow and ice on it. and I try to, you know, just keep that to a minimum. But, yeah, it's it's like I still enjoy it, but I just don't want to, like, pursue that style of climbing full time.
00:39:52:22 - 00:40:06:11
Speaker 1
Like Max kind of alluded to. you know, I. With the story we heard for Miles, obviously, he was on a different, tower than you guys. but even watching your short film on your ascent of
00:40:09:12 - 00:40:16:22
Speaker 1
it looked like it was super loose and like that issue of the sun hitting the wall and breaking down the ice that holds all the rocks together.
00:40:16:22 - 00:40:30:14
Speaker 1
And like the issue of rockfall, seems like a pretty big, significant, risk. so, like, how are you managing that risk? That kind of seems somewhat unavoidable. And where you have to kind of lean into luck. and
00:40:30:15 - 00:40:42:03
Speaker 1
how are you, like keeping the sky during, like being in, like, dangerous environments like that? Because I think you could very easily just, like, have a fucking anxiety attack when like, a close call happens or like things start
00:40:43:02 - 00:41:15:10
Speaker 2
For sure. well, to answer the the first part of the question. yeah. You you oftentimes can't manage the risk. and I feel like to some degree, when you're in the mountains and you're in the alpine, you, you put yourself in these situations, and you, like, you try to be as safe as possible. And for example, if, if I'm going to, you know, do some or if I have to cross some sort of snow field, you do that when the conditions are cold.
00:41:15:10 - 00:41:48:03
Speaker 2
You don't do that in the sun. and there's a lot of decision making that you can gain from experience and just understanding how snow and ice works. and you can try to manage the risk as best you can. However, it is impossible to fully remove the risk. And if you think you can, you're you're foolish. and so you have to be honest with yourself and state and say, okay, you know, by going out here, I'm, I'm inherently taking on some risk.
00:41:48:05 - 00:42:06:10
Speaker 2
however, you have to be okay with whatever amount of risk you're taking on if the objective is worth it. You know, you you take out, I've, I've heard that analogy of, like, there's a bank and you have a certain amount of, like, risk tokens or something like that, and you only have so many that you can withdraw in your life.
00:42:06:10 - 00:42:28:01
Speaker 2
And, you know, like you, you have to essentially hope for some luck. and yeah, there, there is a degree of, of, of essentially relying on luck, and some in some ways. But I, I would say that I the decision making that I've done, I've definitely made risky decisions and I've decided to put myself in situations that are dangerous.
00:42:28:01 - 00:43:05:11
Speaker 2
But, I think, you know, for the most part, I'm quite conservative and I, I think everything through. And, you know, if I'm going to go through a situation that is if I'm going to go and put myself into a dangerous situation, I'm going to try to minimize the time that I'm there and be very smart about, you know, having some sort of plan if something happens or just knowing my options or escape routes or, yeah, just, trying to, I guess, manage the best I can.
00:43:05:11 - 00:43:09:15
Speaker 2
And then the second question, how do you stay safe? Stay safe?
00:43:09:15 - 00:43:32:15
Speaker 2
That is a really, really good question. And, I think really it comes down to partnership. and you're like mental stock levels, being out there and your objective and for me, like being in tourist planning with two of my best friends with really, really good food and the cast iron Dutch oven that we could cook from, that's how we stayed.
00:43:32:17 - 00:43:55:03
Speaker 2
Like it was just like we love to cook food. We were eating really, really well. We are having awesome conversations and hanging out every day and we were super stoked on the objective. And yeah, that that just like that led us through all of the the bullshit and the wetness and the snow and the cold and the suffering and the risky parts.
00:43:55:05 - 00:44:14:21
Speaker 2
And I would argue it's like, yeah, there's definitely some dangerous stuff on that climb. But really there's a lot other there's a lot of other factors that could convince you to go down other than the danger. It's it's there's a lot of just like uncomfortableness. And, you have to be you have to be really psyched to persevere through that.
00:44:14:23 - 00:44:30:18
Speaker 2
but having having good partners who are just, like, stoked on life and stoked on climbing and, close to you and, you know, down to be silly and eat good food. That's that's the way to to stay stoked, in my opinion.
00:44:33:05 - 00:44:49:09
Speaker 1
I do, was there a moment in your life where you were reckless and this kind of like, awareness of the risk and the calculated decision making, like, was because of a close call or some sort of event because
00:44:49:09 - 00:44:51:14
Speaker 1
for me, like, I, I had my accident.
00:44:51:14 - 00:45:11:00
Speaker 1
Max had an accident, like, especially before my accident. I kind of was looking back on myself as a climber. I was kind of reckless, like, I was ignorant to some of the risks I was putting myself in. And I was drawn out of the lock bank. And it wasn't until after this accident where I was lucky enough to survive to learn this.
00:45:11:02 - 00:45:14:22
Speaker 1
lesson, or now I can kind of approach climbing in this different way.
00:45:18:06 - 00:45:45:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. I don't I don't think there was any sort of defining moment like that for me. I, I feel like I was always pretty aware of the risks in climbing and honest with myself. I definitely do look back. some of the climbs I've done, and I'm like, whoa. Like, I was way bolder back then, or I really, like, ran it out back then.
00:45:46:01 - 00:46:13:14
Speaker 2
and I think part of me is like, is that youth or is that just the fact that I was climbing so much a few years ago and, you know, when you do it every day? I was so comfortable. I definitely was a stronger and bolder climber three years ago. and I'm okay with that. But yeah, I don't, I don't know, I don't think it's I don't think my, my perception of risk has changed that significantly.
00:46:13:16 - 00:46:19:10
Speaker 2
from when I started.
00:46:19:12 - 00:46:22:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I have, yeah.
00:46:22:01 - 00:46:34:00
Speaker 1
those experiences affected your appraisal on risk and, like, the risk you're willing to take? Like, were those things that you've noticed, like, had this noticeable change after those events or, like, how has that affected you?
00:46:35:05 - 00:46:44:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, they have affected me. pretty significantly to some. To some degree. It's been it's interesting. I've like.
00:46:46:05 - 00:47:12:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, different passed away last summer and I. I stop, I stopped, yeah. I mean, it changed. It changed the type of climbing that I was interested in. I used to go scrambling after work a bunch, up above my house, and I just put an end to that. I was like, I'm over it. I'm not going to climb by myself anymore.
00:47:12:20 - 00:47:42:07
Speaker 2
and. Yeah, and then my another really good friend, John Bolt, die in Patagonia. And that one, I don't know, it's like these things happen. And honestly, it's an ongoing it's an ongoing process to process their deaths. I don't like it's changing. And I still think about it a lot. And I look at his death and I'm like, man, he made pretty much all the right decisions.
00:47:42:08 - 00:48:05:16
Speaker 2
and he still died like, so. And I've gone I've, like, descended the way like the I've, I've been at the, the repel station that he repelled like we're rockfall hit him before like, I think twice now. and so yeah, that's like that's when I go back to saying, like, you have to be honest with yourself about the risk.
00:48:05:18 - 00:48:27:15
Speaker 2
Like you can manage the risk to some degree, but you have to be honest with yourself. And, those deaths have affected me because, you know, it's like I, I'm forced to be honest with myself and say like, okay, cool. Am I okay with with this risk? Am you know, if I'm not okay with it, I shouldn't be here.
00:48:27:15 - 00:48:44:01
Speaker 2
And if I am okay with it, like, let's proceed. I don't know. But to be honest, it's been like, it's been complicated, and I still don't quite know where I stand. in regard to, in regard to this topic, it's like an ongoing thing in my head there. I, I'm a little bit all over the place to some degree.
00:48:44:04 - 00:48:49:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Totally fair. Sorry. I don't like beat a dead horse here on, like, the morbid subject. But just like a weird question would be
00:48:49:18 - 00:48:59:01
Speaker 1
if you died in a climbing accident, do you still think the pursuit of climbing and the meaning and purpose it has brought to your life would be worth it?
00:49:00:17 - 00:49:14:10
Speaker 2
no, I don't, I don't if I like if I died in Patagonia this season, I would totally regret my decision to be an alpine climber. I think, I've, like.
00:49:14:12 - 00:49:19:02
Speaker 1
I've got, like.
00:49:22:06 - 00:49:23:22
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:49:25:06 - 00:49:39:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't know. I again, it's something that I'm, like, still developing. I mean, I'm the reason I'm going down there again is because I genuinely believe that making conservative choices, I believe I believe you can climb down there in a safe fashion.
00:49:39:19 - 00:49:47:12
Speaker 2
And I believe that, you know, there's there's certainly a lot of, a lot of deaths that have occurred down there.
00:49:47:14 - 00:50:13:13
Speaker 2
it's objectively more dangerous in climbing in a place like Yosemite, but I think it's, you know, it's it's not so much so more where I'm, dissuaded from climbing down there. but yeah, for me, climbing has been so incredible in my life, and I've, I've gained so much from it. personally, physically, mentally, like, the community has been amazing to me and my friends.
00:50:13:15 - 00:50:34:12
Speaker 2
The relationships have had through climbing and like, they're they're so good. And however, there's so many other things in life that are important and interests me and I, I hope to have a longer life and, yeah, I, I, I definitely am not someone that's like, fuck it. Like, let's go, let's go.
00:50:34:14 - 00:50:37:08
Speaker 1
Like hardcore.
00:50:37:10 - 00:50:42:04
Speaker 2
I don't know, like, let's let's go till, let's like, push it to the summit when.
00:50:42:06 - 00:50:43:19
Speaker 1
All the.
00:50:43:20 - 00:50:55:04
Speaker 2
Indicators say turn around because I want some sort of summit glory. Like, I'm, I don't know, I'm not proud of anything. Like, I'd rather live and just have good experiences and live a longer life.
00:50:55:04 - 00:51:11:10
Speaker 1
sure. Like, on the the living a longer life. I didn't mean it in, like, a reckless sense. I just mean it like how you were describing your friend made all the right decisions. Still just kind of tragically died in this, like, you know, like this risk that you just couldn't properly mitigate. It's just a part of being in the mountains.
00:51:11:12 - 00:51:25:14
Speaker 1
I guess it was just more so like from the perspective of, you know, like, what do you how would you have foreseen your life if you never found climbing? You know, because like for some people that might be like, I'd be like a drug addict on the street, and for other
00:51:29:11 - 00:51:33:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:58:10 - 00:52:01:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally. I think I'd probably just be a skier.
00:52:01:06 - 00:52:03:12
Speaker 1
That's. Yeah, I'd.
00:52:03:12 - 00:52:08:11
Speaker 2
Probably, like, drink more alcohol, obviously, or something like that.
00:52:08:11 - 00:52:15:20
Speaker 3
Totally fair.
00:52:15:20 - 00:52:27:21
Speaker 1
the food, that you enjoy both on and off the wall. Let's talk about it on the wall. I watched, you know, the the South African route. And when I heard you had a Dutch oven, I was imagining like a
00:52:47:23 - 00:52:49:05
Speaker 1
Imma.
00:53:02:06 - 00:53:03:10
Speaker 1
Sure.
00:53:03:12 - 00:53:31:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, It actually, I guess it all started. So I met, I met Imma probably. I think it was like the winter, like 2000, 20 around four years ago or something like that, I guess. yeah. Anyway, we, we were in Joshua Tree and I met this dude and we ended up spending a lot of the winter together, and we both quickly identified that we really enjoyed food.
00:53:31:15 - 00:53:55:00
Speaker 2
and we really enjoyed cooking. And we would just cook these extravagant meals together, and we would we were, you know, like, live in that classic, like, California. And then, I don't know, like us, like circuit of climbing to these all these areas. You go to Red Rocks and Yosemite and, and Indian Creek and index and you know, Joshua Tree wherever.
00:53:55:00 - 00:54:24:16
Speaker 2
And there'd be all these other other dirtbags and hippies on the road that you'd meet. And we got fell into this habit of, like, feeding people and making these big, extravagant meals for people. And we'd bake a lot of pizzas, and we just found a lot of joy through cooking and through sharing food. And it turns out you can make pizzas for like 20 people for for so cheap, I mean, for you just you just have flour and, some pizza sauce, and you're dumpster diving a lot in the Bishop dumpsters that summer.
00:54:24:16 - 00:54:47:13
Speaker 2
And just like living a super, super cheap life and cooking all this food. and we go to Yosemite, and I was living out of a van. We'd, like, hosted all these big, big meals in my van. and, yeah, we just we like that was the genesis of it. And then the first trip we did together, the first big trip we did together, was to Alaska.
00:54:47:15 - 00:55:08:13
Speaker 2
we went on this, I guess, expedition. I always find that word kind of funny these days. We go on a climbing trip and lived on a glacier for three months or three weeks. And during that time, like most people, when they go to Alaska, they're like, all right, we're going to bring like a whisper light stove and a jet boil and eat all this freeze dried food and and oatmeal for breakfast.
00:55:08:13 - 00:55:30:03
Speaker 2
And we want to be as light as possible. And we were like, we're going to be on a glacier for three weeks. We have a freaking freezer and a refrigerator that we're living on and will bring really good food. And so we brought with us a five gallon propane tank and a car camping stove, and fresh produce for the whole duration of the trip.
00:55:30:03 - 00:55:48:17
Speaker 2
And it's super, super well on this glacier and cooked like incredible meals every day, had salads for lunch when it was warm and, had avocados every breakfast. it turned out actually the avocado was like, didn't get ripe fast enough because it was too cold. It's like by the end of the trip, we still had like rock hard avocados.
00:55:48:19 - 00:56:07:19
Speaker 2
We bought some, we brought so many. And yeah, that's that's kind of how it all started. and then subsequently every time, I mean, whenever we hang out, we just eat really, really well and cook for a lot of people and host big gatherings and big meals and, yeah, it was just like a thing when we went.
00:56:07:19 - 00:56:27:17
Speaker 2
We were we were doing this big when you're going on a our opening, I was like, obviously we're going to eat really well. and he had we actually had these two friends in Santa Barbara, Jake and Emma, that had this many cast iron Dutch oven, and he had seen it through them first, and they had given us the oven for the, for the trip.
00:56:27:23 - 00:57:00:13
Speaker 2
And he was super insistent. I was a little bit skeptical. I'm like that this is not an efficient way to eat food and cook, but it's like, nah, dude, it's going to be sweet. And so yeah, we brought it and it was it was awesome. Like, it goes back to that question of how to keep the psyche. It's like even though it's so silly bringing flour and some tomato sauce and cheese and, you know, making a pizza on a plate or making an empanada in the oven, breaking up, baking, bringing some like, ready mix brownie stuff and throwing that in an oven or making popcorn like that.
00:57:00:13 - 00:57:22:05
Speaker 2
Just that keeps morale super high. And when you're on a wall, and really shitty weather, and, like, everything's telling you to go down having that is, is a really good way to keep the sky. and it's something like. Yeah. And like for me, like for all future. I love to eat food. I like, really, really enjoys good food.
00:57:22:05 - 00:57:34:16
Speaker 2
And, I think that, like, food fosters community. And it's like a really, really cool way to share to share life and share stock and, yeah, like all my future trips, I plan to make food a pretty big part of it.
00:57:35:08 - 00:57:43:11
Speaker 1
That's really awesome. Do you have, like, what's, staple meal that you just love? Like, at home right now? Working or something? Do you have, like, a core kind of thing that
00:57:45:13 - 00:57:58:02
Speaker 2
yeah, I'm going to say the burrito. I actually, it's by far my favorite meal. I actually went on a burrito diet. I've gone on three, three burrito diets. Like only eating burritos for a week.
00:57:58:04 - 00:57:59:15
Speaker 1
The first.
00:57:59:16 - 00:58:14:01
Speaker 2
The first time I did it was like two burritos a day. I was living in the mission in San Francisco, and there's really good burritos all over the place, and, like, I, like, pretty much ate a burrito every night for dinner when I was living there. And so I was like, I might as well do this twice a day.
00:58:14:07 - 00:58:34:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I did 14 burritos in a week. I was super easy, and I was still hungry. I also, I eat a lot of food. I like a lot of calories relative to most people. And so then I went for like the 21 burrito in a week diet, like breakfast like. And these are all super, like, you know, like massive, massive burritos from places in the mission.
00:58:34:06 - 00:58:41:07
Speaker 2
And yeah, I did three a day and I was that was a challenge I actually didn't quite complete. I think I got to 18 and I was like, fuck this.
00:58:41:07 - 00:58:44:19
Speaker 1
This is too much.
00:58:44:20 - 00:58:48:14
Speaker 2
But yeah, I love burritos. That's by far my favorite. My favorite meal.
00:58:48:16 - 00:58:52:19
Speaker 1
Mexican food, for sure is one of those staples that you could probably eat the rest of your life and not get sick of
00:58:53:03 - 00:59:11:02
Speaker 2
Totally. And it's so much bang for your buck. I mean, honestly, that's half the reason I'm super cheap. I used to be, like, really, really cheap with my food, with my eating. And I didn't spend a lot of money on food and and I ate, I bought, I eat a ton of food. And I was like, all right, this is the most this is the most food for the like.
00:59:11:02 - 00:59:18:06
Speaker 2
This is the most economical way to eat a lot of food. And so that was like one of the reasons why I ate a lot of burritos.
00:59:25:08 - 00:59:45:07
Speaker 2
Well, it's changed a lot. I go through phases, but I think I feel like my classic if I'm if I'm making my own burritos, I typically only, cook vegetarian, these days. I, I've, like, gone through different phases. I was like a vegetarian for a minute when I was living in my van. but I've mostly eaten meat my whole life.
00:59:45:07 - 01:00:12:09
Speaker 2
And now nowadays, I have, like, these really weird rules that don't make a lot of sense. But essentially, I, I don't buy meat from a grocery store, but I do buy meat from from local farmers and ranchers that I know, or like friends. Friends that, that hunt food. and so typically when I'm making my own Mexican food, it's mostly vegetarian, and therefore, like all over the place, lots of, like corn, mushroom, salmon.
01:00:12:11 - 01:00:19:12
Speaker 2
I bought a bunch of about, like, 25 pounds of salmon from a friend who was fishing in Alaska this, this winter. And so I had a lot of salmon at my house.
01:00:19:12 - 01:00:29:12
Speaker 2
but the weird rule is like, when I go out to to when I go out to eat food, I just eat whatever. Like I'll eat a carnitas burrito. and I'll, I typically don't eat red meat out.
01:00:29:14 - 01:00:41:00
Speaker 2
occasionally I do, but yeah, I'll eat like, trash me or like, you know, poorly raised meat. how and I, I love, I love carnitas burritos.
01:00:41:02 - 01:00:55:08
Speaker 1
I feel like you guys in the US have just, like, way better Mexican food. You know, like Canada. I feel just not even close. Like, not the portion size. The amount, like, yeah. Just like all the above. You guys are way better Mexican food.
01:00:55:14 - 01:01:04:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. California. California Mexican food is very good.
01:01:30:19 - 01:01:48:16
Speaker 2
no. So I. Yeah. The wine thing is not me. I want to clarify that, I'm not the. I'm not the one guy. but I have so two of my best friends, Emma and Cedar. Those are the two individuals that I climb the South African route with. I've climbed very extensively with both of them.
01:01:48:18 - 01:02:09:14
Speaker 2
those two dudes are really, really psyched on wine. and they have climbed El Cap, I think, at least three times with only wine. Like, no food, no food or water. The first time I did it, they brought a gallon of water and they brought food. They didn't drink the water or eat the food. And then the subsequent times they've done it with only wine, no food or water, and they've done like
01:02:10:21 - 01:02:14:21
Speaker 2
just one day, like, like 7 hours or 8 hours.
01:02:15:03 - 01:02:23:09
Speaker 1
I don't know. Yeah. No, they're and.
01:02:23:11 - 01:02:41:17
Speaker 2
It's super funny that they've done it on both windows and the south wall and they've, they've like every time they pass the one they offer, they offer wine. and if they've like noted that on the nose, everyone's psyched. They're like, they drink the wine or like, they're on the nose. It's like their first big wall or like, having a good time just wall in and out.
01:02:41:17 - 01:02:54:04
Speaker 2
And then everyone on the south, their walls, like some like taking it way too seriously, trying to, like, free the free rider. And they're like, no, I don't want your wine at nine in the morning. Like I'm way too serious for that.
01:02:54:06 - 01:02:56:08
Speaker 1
but yeah, these these two dudes are.
01:02:56:08 - 01:03:09:15
Speaker 2
Really psyched on wine. they're not they're not alcoholics by any means. The I think they're pretty, I don't know, they have a healthy relationship with it to to some degree, maybe that's debatable, but,
01:03:09:17 - 01:03:10:03
Speaker 1
They,
01:03:10:08 - 01:03:33:08
Speaker 2
They were the ones that that wanted to bring all the wine up that wall. and actually, I'm like, I'm not a very argumentative person at all. but I, and I particularly with those dudes, you've, like a very chill relationship. But the first time in my life. Right. the only time in my life I've ever had a super serious conversation and had to put my foot down and, like, really argue with them.
01:03:33:08 - 01:03:57:00
Speaker 2
Was was literally the the conversation regarding how much wine we were going to take up that wall and they wanted to bring, I think like it was some ridiculous amount of like seven gallons of seven liters of wine. They wanted to take seven liters of wine on the wall or something they calculated they needed like like a, a bottle a day or something.
01:03:57:00 - 01:04:20:05
Speaker 2
It was absolutely absurd. And they were completely serious to like and hauling stuff like just getting to the base of the wall is an insane mission. and then hauling stuff up on that walls is like, it's crazy. It's like it was it's such a pain in the ass. And, I mean, hauling stuff up El Cap is so easy in comparison, and that's a pain in the ass.
01:04:20:05 - 01:04:40:01
Speaker 2
We ended up meeting this this, this lady, the hostel we were staying at in Puerto Natalia's, And her name was Inuk. She was this really cool, person from Amsterdam that ran this, like, salsa. this, like, salsa dancing studio. And she carried all of the wine up on the approach with us.
01:04:40:01 - 01:04:57:17
Speaker 2
You, like, hiked out with us and, like, ported our wine, which was really cool. and then we brought, I think we brought three liters on the wall. and yeah, I, I like I had my way. I was like, we're not bringing more than three liters. Like, absolutely not. It's not acceptable. But yeah, they, they love their wine.
01:04:57:19 - 01:05:06:10
Speaker 2
and I think that was the perfect amount. And actually this, this summer I did, I did do a wine ascent of the Hawk. I had this like.
01:05:06:22 - 01:05:26:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, IMA and I tried it last year. I was like, fuck it. I'll like, indulge for a minute. and we, we, like, left Truckee in the morning, like, drove to the Hawk and then and then did the approach and like from the car, I only drank wine. and I, we did bring water. And then, like, the very last pitch ended up getting off and like on this, like, very hard route.
01:05:26:03 - 01:05:38:19
Speaker 2
And I was like, fuck it, I'm going to drink water and eat a little bit of food. So I don't know if my wine itself was pure because the last pitch I ate a little bit of food. But yeah, it was the most, mostly wine ascent of the whole.
01:05:38:19 - 01:05:41:15
Speaker 1
start, like. fkt. Like fwa. Like first
01:05:43:10 - 01:05:56:14
Speaker 2
They there are like, yeah, they've written.
01:05:56:16 - 01:06:01:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, I have, I have.
01:06:01:10 - 01:06:18:05
Speaker 2
Wine stain on my son hoodie from that, from that trip. But but yeah, it's also I mean it's like it's joy, right. Like wine is fun and it's like it's also it's it's kind of silly if you're like, trying to free free rider and you're like, no, I like will not take a sip of wine because that will affect my son.
01:06:18:05 - 01:06:37:16
Speaker 2
It's like, come on, you're taking it. So seriously. Like, go enjoy a sip of wine. Like when I, when I climb the Triple Crown, the A70 Triple Crown with miles for we. It was like, you know, El cap. How films walk into the day I drink wine between each of those mountains. Just because my support group was was Cedar and Emma.
01:06:37:18 - 01:06:55:16
Speaker 2
then I like, literally got down. I literally got down from from El Cap at like 4 or 5 in the morning to this breakfast and there's like, wine and like, fancy glasses. Pour it at 5:00 in the morning in El Camino. And it's like, you got it. You're obviously going to drink wine, you know, at least a couple sips.
01:06:55:18 - 01:06:55:21
Speaker 2
and.
01:06:55:21 - 01:07:00:02
Speaker 1
Then.
01:07:00:21 - 01:07:18:21
Speaker 2
I prefer red wine, for sure, but I'm also. I'm not I'm not snobby. It's like, I don't know. I'm not. I'm not a wine person. I, I can appreciate it. Or like, I could appreciate a good bottle of wine, but I can't really tell that much of a difference. Yeah, one is one for me.
01:07:18:22 - 01:07:20:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:07:20:11 - 01:07:36:22
Speaker 1
Nice. Dude, I think I want to steer, the rest of this conversation towards media and your YouTube channel and social media. and the way I'm going to preface this topic is, this, like, so we're
01:08:13:10 - 01:08:17:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I. Yeah.
01:08:38:19 - 01:08:48:08
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah. I think whenever I hear the word influencer, I really cringe. I really, like, avoid wanting to be titled as such a thing.
01:08:48:13 - 01:08:50:06
Speaker 1
I feel influenced by you, Tyler.
01:08:50:06 - 01:08:53:15
Speaker 2
Dang far.
01:08:53:17 - 01:08:54:01
Speaker 1
but I.
01:08:54:01 - 01:09:21:21
Speaker 2
Also, I fully understand that I, I am to some degree. It's like I, I put content on the internet and and you know, people are influenced by that content. So objectively that defines that is the definition of an influencer. and because I have sponsorships and, you know, I, I, I am an influencer. However, I try really hard to avoid selling product and advertising product on my social media.
01:09:21:22 - 01:09:41:11
Speaker 2
and I have like, really, I mean, I get people reach out to me and say like, oh, okay, I'll give you this for free if you do this or whatever and, or certain companies. And I've made it super clear with all the companies that I work with that I really want to avoid, being an influencer and and promoting product in that way.
01:09:41:18 - 01:09:59:13
Speaker 1
That concludes today's episode. Everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you'd like to learn more about Tyler, or to check out his YouTube channel where you'll find raw and real climbing adventure films, check out the links in our show notes. Just a reminder, please share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is the best way to support the show.
01:09:59:15 - 01:10:19:16
Speaker 1
Plus, don't forget you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Stay tuned for our next episode, where we continue our conversation with Tyler to cover the topics of social media, climbing culture, and what Tyler has planned for his climbing in the near future. Until then, keep exploring, stay safe, and as always. Thanks for being a part of the climbing majority.
01:10:19:21 - 01:10:22:03
Speaker 1
See you in two weeks.
