64 | Get Paid To Make 3D Climbing Maps w/ Martin Mora

What’s up everyone thanks for being here and for being a part of The Climbing Majority. Today we sit down with Martin Mora, co-founder and developer of Red- Point. Red-Point is a new app where you can use interactive 3d maps to explore and get detailed route information on boulders and crags. If you haven't already seen their social posts of their app in action…definitely go check them out. 

Martin is a unique individual who like many in the majority, found climbing later in his life. He found himself spending way too much time wondering where a specific route is at a new crag, and thought “There must be a better way”...Because of this h e and his business partner spent the last few years developing a process to scan and render 3 dimensional images of crags that can be explored virtually on your phone. Now they are traveling the globe to ultimately begin the overwhelming task of scanning the world's most prominent and popular rock walls.

Martin believes that the heavily detailed and  comprehensive nature of these 3D scans will soon make traditional apps like Mountain Project feel archaic. You will no longer need to stitch together subjective beta in the comments sections…. Martin even believes Red-Point is on track to become the Strava of climbing.

But Martin isn’t doing this alone; he's created a way for the entire climbing community to get involved. Through what he calls the 'Dirtbag Program,' climbers like you can contribute scans and even get paid up to $20 for each area or boulder you map. All you need is your phone.

So, whether you're a tech enthusiast, an avid climber, or just love a good story about passion fueled  innovation, you won't want to miss what Martin has to say. Let’s get started.

Resources

Red-Point

Instagram

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:22 Martin Mora
• 21:54 Red-Point

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:03
Unknown
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:26:13 - 00:00:48:17
Unknown
What's up, everybody? Thanks for being here and thank you for being a part of the climbing majority. Today, we sit down with Martin Mora, co-founder and developer of Red Point. Redpoint is a new app where you can use interactive 3D maps to explore and get detailed route information on boulders and crags. If you haven't already seen their social posts of their app in action, we definitely need to check them out.

00:00:48:19 - 00:01:20:05
Unknown
Martin is a unique individual who, like many of us in the majority, found climbing later in his life as he explored the world of climbing. He quickly realized that the current process of using guidebooks and mountain project to find and locate specific routes in new areas was inefficient and ineffective. He thought there must be a better way. Because of this, he and his business partner has spent the last few years developing a process to scan and render three dimensional images of cracks and boulders that can be virtually explored on your phone.

00:01:20:07 - 00:01:45:06
Unknown
And now they are traveling the globe to ultimately begin the overwhelming task of scanning the world's most prominent and popular rock walls. Martin believes that the heavily detailed and comprehensive nature of these 3D scans will soon make traditional apps like Mountain Project feel archaic. You will no longer need to stitch together subjective data in the comments sections. Martin even believes that Red Point is on track to become the next Strava of climbing.

00:01:45:08 - 00:02:07:17
Unknown
But Martin isn't doing this alone. He's created a way for the entire community to get involved through what he calls the dirt bag program. Climbers like you can contribute scans and even get paid up to 20 bucks per area or boulder that you map. All you need is your phone. So whether you're a tech enthusiast, an avid climber, or just love a good story about passion, field innovation, you will not want to miss what Martin has to say.

00:02:20:18 - 00:02:26:03
Unknown
All right, everybody, welcome back to the Climate Jury podcast. Today's especially because

00:02:26:03 - 00:02:38:02
Unknown
we are sitting down collectively in three different countries at the same time, which is pretty cool. Today we're sitting down with Max, of course, from Canada and our guest today. Martin. Martin, Which last name?

00:02:38:02 - 00:02:38:20
Unknown
Maura.

00:02:38:20 - 00:02:43:10
Unknown
Martin Mora. Yeah. He is sitting in Australia. Brisbane, Correct.

00:02:43:10 - 00:02:48:10
Unknown
based now in Brisbane, but I'm originally Argentinian myself, so I'm within a few years ago.

00:02:48:10 - 00:02:49:13
Unknown
Awesome. And,

00:02:49:13 - 00:02:52:06
Unknown
We are talking today about Redpoint. This is an app

00:02:52:06 - 00:02:52:12
Unknown
that you

00:02:52:12 - 00:02:54:07
Unknown
developed to correct.

00:02:54:07 - 00:02:55:15
Unknown
we'll just kind of jump into it here.

00:02:55:15 - 00:03:00:07
Unknown
Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you found climbing and how this app

00:03:00:07 - 00:03:00:23
Unknown
came to be.

00:03:01:01 - 00:03:14:01
Unknown
Yeah, well, actually, like I was saying, I grew up in Argentina. I lived there until I was 25 years old. I never climbed while I was living in Argentina. Honestly, even though it's actually a lot better place to time than Australia.

00:03:49:12 - 00:03:51:01
Unknown
Good entry standard entry

00:03:58:19 - 00:04:16:18
Unknown
someone gave me for my birthday present. Just we would all go together, Diamond Jim. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go have a little fun. That's going to be definitely safer. And at least if something I can, you know, fight against my fear of heights for a little bit, for a few hours at the gym and I got there, I was like, all regrouping, every holds you.

00:04:16:21 - 00:04:43:12
Unknown
I've just my my forms of burning like crazy. And that was like, okay, I can do this. And that's the beginning. I started thinking even more like exposure therapy. I was like, I can actually do this and maybe lose if your heart's a little bit. But after a few months, I was addicted to it. I was going to the gym three or four times a week and a few friends started taking me out, climbing as well, and I started learning how to live.

00:04:43:14 - 00:05:18:07
Unknown
And probably about a year after that was when the pandemic happened. It started and all the gyms here in Australia had to close. They were forced to close and we only could go climb out outside. Right. And what happened is that I was frothing to go climb so much and I, we bought all the equipment that we missed to be able to do everything we wanted to do and started going out sometimes in the middle of the week because really lucky here in Brisbane there say cool crack just on the river that's called Kangaroo Point and it's in the middle of the city and it's a ten minute drive away from it.

00:05:18:07 - 00:05:30:03
Unknown
And I'm I live pretty close to the center of the city, so that place was full of people every day at any hour during a pandemic because everyone was wanting to go. That was like it's like the outdoor gym that we have here. It's in the middle of the city.

00:05:30:03 - 00:05:44:06
Unknown
Wow. Super cool, man. That's it's really, really interesting. I've always wondered about, like climbing in Australia and I think like, you kind of brought up this fear of like, free solo and killing yourself climbing. I actually have like mortal fear about all the spiders and snakes

00:05:52:21 - 00:05:59:19
Unknown
the funny thing is that you get so used to them people here, we don't really notice them, people that live here.

00:05:59:19 - 00:06:06:20
Unknown
And once now, I don't notice them anymore. But at the beginning I was like, this is why they're here, Because they're everywhere. Honestly, most of

00:06:06:20 - 00:06:22:00
Unknown
When you when you come across them. Yeah.

00:06:31:14 - 00:06:34:10
Unknown
Well

00:06:34:10 - 00:06:40:15
Unknown
weird feeling. That's why everyone. Everyone here, if you go do that, leave your shoes outside of the house before getting in.

00:06:40:15 - 00:06:50:09
Unknown
Everyone just bounce their shoes against something and then put them on because that's a normal thing. but those are usually huntsman spiders, which are poisonous at all. They're just not dangerous.

00:06:50:09 - 00:06:55:04
Unknown
they're just huge.

00:06:55:04 - 00:07:00:06
Unknown
inside your shoes, though. That's, that's a lucky thing. I've never seen one that big, but I found this.

00:07:00:06 - 00:07:03:23
Unknown
I in my bed in the house that I was leaving before. If.

00:07:21:03 - 00:07:22:09
Unknown
Yeah.

00:07:26:01 - 00:07:28:17
Unknown
I've never seen a bear in my life. Honestly, it's

00:07:47:04 - 00:07:54:13
Unknown
Wow.

00:07:54:15 - 00:08:01:05
Unknown
I've heard that you guys have a kangaroo epidemic out there. Is that true?

00:08:01:07 - 00:08:11:05
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. Wow. Are they. Are they as invasive as the media makes them sound to be out here?

00:08:11:05 - 00:08:14:22
Unknown
not really that bad. But, you know, there's licenses to hunt them. You can have them,

00:08:15:10 - 00:08:16:06
Unknown
Yeah.

00:08:16:06 - 00:08:19:12
Unknown
Yeah.

00:08:27:05 - 00:08:45:08
Unknown
What about. What about those? Those the big males that, like, look bigger than, you know, like, you know, Arnold Schwarzenegger? Like, is is that like, a real or is that like, wow.

00:08:45:13 - 00:08:47:03
Unknown
I've seen enough, like, online

00:08:52:20 - 00:08:53:22
Unknown
Yeah,

00:08:57:00 - 00:09:05:07
Unknown
it's

00:09:05:07 - 00:09:23:01
Unknown
sanctuary where they basically rehabilitate some koalas and also kangaroos and then bring them back to nature after, you know, they've been injured or something and they have one. While this last time I went, which was a few years ago, they had a huge big red kangaroo there and you just it's fine because it's used to people so it doesn't do anything.

00:09:23:07 - 00:09:26:20
Unknown
But you can see the size, you know, I'm six one and it was almost as tall as I am

00:09:26:20 - 00:09:35:14
Unknown
wow. Yeah. Yeah.

00:09:35:14 - 00:09:37:19
Unknown
never seen one getting aggressive, never

00:09:37:19 - 00:10:00:15
Unknown
That's good. I think this is this is a great like, segway into just like climbing in Australia in general, you know, myself being from North America, Max being from Canada, I think a lot of our audiences is based around those areas and I would assume that most of us don't have a lot of a grasp of what the culture of climbing is like in Australia.

00:10:00:17 - 00:10:03:07
Unknown
Maybe kind of like bring us up to speed.

00:10:03:13 - 00:10:18:02
Unknown
Well, the climbing, the cultural climbing stress quite well developed. Honestly, it's a it's a funky, really cool culture over here. If you see in the in the app itself and start scrolling through some of the of the walls that we have uploaded there, there's a bit of a culture of naming roads.

00:10:41:20 - 00:11:15:17
Unknown
I've seen lots of pictures of it. Yeah. Are those are the ones where you have to. I would say most of them you repel in and climb out or are you approaching it from the bottom?

00:11:15:17 - 00:11:28:02
Unknown
actually hike in, there's ways to get to get down without rappelling. But there's some others that you need to wrap around for sure. Yeah, it's not so much that you can't do that. And most of this is good hiking, but it would just be so long that it doesn't make sense.

00:11:28:02 - 00:11:32:02
Unknown
What's the the climbing season in Australia? You guys are really inverted, right?

00:11:32:14 - 00:11:55:10
Unknown
Yeah, well, it's inverted, but it's the same anyway, because it's in between seasons and between summer and winter, where the climbing sits. And so it's mostly spring and autumn. Although the winter season here, at least in the north of Australia, where I am in Brisbane, it's pretty big. Everyone comes here climbing to frog would just be crack climb and clack crack climbing crack.

00:11:55:10 - 00:12:03:19
Unknown
Hear that? Because yeah, it's not too cold in winter everyone comes over up north and they climb on the place, which is stunning to

00:12:03:19 - 00:12:08:02
Unknown
What's cold? Like, Like what? Give me a temperature range. Like in some of the colder

00:12:08:02 - 00:12:17:22
Unknown
here in Brisbane and south of Brisbane Where I describe that I was talking about is we could get maybe to five degrees, the coldest in winter. It can get to one degrees sometimes at night late.

00:12:17:23 - 00:12:22:04
Unknown
By the time you will be climbing, you will never be called in in five degrees. You have not.

00:12:22:18 - 00:12:37:03
Unknown
what's. What's the climbing history like? You know, I think America has this, like, very advertised, staunch history in terms of your CBD and the stone masters. Like, do you have something that's parallel in Australia?

00:12:37:03 - 00:12:48:15
Unknown
not know a lot about that. Matt, my co-founder, knows a lot about it because he's been climbing here for about 15 years. But I know, you know, people like Walter Ganguly and Chris Sharma, a lot of climbers have been climbing in Victoria.

00:12:48:15 - 00:13:18:10
Unknown
Other states, that's the south south are most of the big continent without continents. Mania. The Grampians, that's there's where there's probably some of the biggest and most important roads in Australia, the Groove Train, for example. You can find some. Chris Sharma He is doing that one in right now that actually the thing is in some of the southern states most days actually here there's a bit of an issue with access to some of the areas because of original hours of land.

00:13:18:12 - 00:13:42:05
Unknown
So some some sections have been closed because some climbers, you know, in the old times there were not as respectful as we are right now, I think in some cases. And they were just had graffiti on the walls and stuff like that, that that doesn't happen anymore, really. And some areas like where good tennis and the Taipan were all in in Victoria, it was closed for a long time, for a few years.

00:13:42:05 - 00:13:50:19
Unknown
And it just reopened it recently for what I know. So I know that there was a lot of people planning on heading back down and trying those amazing routes over there.

00:13:50:19 - 00:14:03:14
Unknown
What about the ethics behind, like, tread gear and bolting? Like, is there a lot of tread climbing in Australia? And if so, like what kind of placements are GFA cams all universal or is there like something specific?

00:14:03:14 - 00:14:06:04
Unknown
To be honest, people use absolutely everything,

00:14:06:15 - 00:14:08:00
Unknown
Yeah.

00:14:27:13 - 00:14:39:22
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It's the same. I read something in the in the in the Blue Mountains where there were these, like all the rivets that you'd have to slide a knot onto. Yeah. So talk to us about those.

00:14:39:22 - 00:14:47:10
Unknown
some people do but they're called tarot bolts. It's basically like and bolt coming out of the wall is like, is like one rod coming out of the wall.

00:14:47:10 - 00:14:48:14
Unknown
Yeah.

00:14:50:05 - 00:14:51:19
Unknown
Interesting.

00:15:09:18 - 00:15:36:21
Unknown
What's. Is that, is that like a is that like a just a universal acceptable version of pro for the cracks or is that like an older rudimentary style that still exists?

00:15:37:09 - 00:15:43:23
Unknown
What would be the the most, like, a occurring type of rock out there?

00:15:44:02 - 00:16:14:18
Unknown
I think it would be limestone, honestly. Yeah. the interesting thing is on the blue is, for example, sorry, that's what we call the Blue Mountains. The lot of the rock is quite spiky. So if you go to an area that's well developed and everyone climbs all the time, it's absolutely fine. Sometimes you go to some of the places that's a bit newer and there's a lot of flakes coming out sometimes, and you can see a lot of debris on the ground around you and you climbing because it's just falling all the time.

00:16:14:20 - 00:16:20:13
Unknown
That's because there's a lot of iron on the rock mixed in as well. So that's why the rockets are red, too. And some of those places,

00:16:20:13 - 00:16:30:02
Unknown
Do you have any do you know about any issues with, like, Aboriginal areas and access to climbs because of those areas?

00:16:30:02 - 00:16:40:20
Unknown
well, the one that I know the most about is what I was just mentioning before. It's called Taipan. Well, in the Grampians that yeah, that was a while. Then they opened part of the wall.

00:16:40:20 - 00:16:59:14
Unknown
They didn't open the whole thing. But now you can actually go through the most iconic routes which are on the right side of the wall, are open right now. The left side didn't open again. That remained. That's a Aboriginal historic site and there's no access to it and I think there will be, but I think it's, you know, there's a lot of associations here in Australia.

00:16:59:14 - 00:17:20:02
Unknown
You have, you know, climbing Queensland and each of the states has their own climbing climbers associations that are, you know, advocating for access to areas, you know, mediating with the government and trying to, you know, keep those places open and the ocean sometimes with the Aboriginal owners of the land and trying to, you know, be the most amicable possible and have a great relationship with the people.

00:17:20:04 - 00:17:21:00
Unknown
I think that's the best way

00:17:22:11 - 00:17:34:02
Unknown
What is the what is the general like relationship between the Aboriginal culture and the people still living in that lifestyle and people like yourself? Like, what's, what's the kind of cultural history there?

00:17:34:02 - 00:17:52:03
Unknown
like, you know, I'm an immigrant here, so I've been in Australia only for five years. So all, all of what I know, I know through, you know, friends of mine that are I have Aboriginal roots themselves, but our, you know, the normal life, like any of us, they're just descended from Aboriginals and most people are mixed.

00:17:52:03 - 00:18:14:14
Unknown
Honestly, that's a long time. The thing is, you know, Australia, a long time ago they didn't even consider Aboriginal humans over here. So there was a lot of, a lot of issues for a long time and they were quite late to catch up to the rest of the world as well. So, you know, those are things that remain a lot in the collective consciousness of Australians.

00:18:16:07 - 00:18:26:05
Unknown
I would imagine there's a lot of parallels to the Native Americans in America and the struggle that we've had here in the same. I'm sure there's a lot of parallels there.

00:18:26:05 - 00:18:28:06
Unknown
and imperialism go around, right?

00:18:28:06 - 00:18:34:15
Unknown
And you had colonies set up and you had all the, you know, Aboriginal population subjugated, it's like there's just going to be status quo

00:18:34:15 - 00:18:38:18
Unknown
Yeah. And I'm from Argentina as well,

00:18:40:14 - 00:18:50:05
Unknown
Yeah. what sparked the move from Argentina to Australia?

00:18:50:05 - 00:18:57:09
Unknown
economy of the country, it's just such a complicated place to have a normal life.

00:18:57:11 - 00:19:24:02
Unknown
When I'm actually originally a lawyer, I studied law in Argentina, and even though I was always more interested in to, you know, building a company or oriented more towards, you know, the commercial side of things, you don't when when the economy is so bad. There's so much inflation, you don't really see that there's as many opportunities. And a place like that, you know, of course, it's still great companies to come out of Argentina as well.

00:19:24:04 - 00:19:42:12
Unknown
But it's I can I can attest that it's a lot more complicated to to start a business over there than to do it somewhere else, like in the US or Australia. You know, just also access to capital and just the fact that the currency that you're dealing with every day is for us a little bit less because of inflation.

00:19:42:14 - 00:20:03:22
Unknown
You know, and that doesn't let you really plan for the future because you know, you need to be saving in a different currency. So, for example, Dana, as the biggest holder of US dollars in the world outside of the US, even though we have a different currency, and that's because people are saving you as others, because we know that our own currency devaluation every month.

00:20:03:22 - 00:20:05:08
Unknown
So at the end of the month,

00:20:09:04 - 00:20:35:11
Unknown
Wow.

00:20:35:13 - 00:20:39:06
Unknown
Wow.

00:20:39:06 - 00:20:52:02
Unknown
And they're doing a lot of, you know, cutting in the spending of the government. And they're also trying to reorganize the economy. I think I think that in the month they started the government in February, they had a 35% inflation in one month.

00:20:53:15 - 00:20:55:11
Unknown
I got.

00:20:55:11 - 00:20:58:01
Unknown
to 13% in one month last month.

00:20:58:03 - 00:21:21:17
Unknown
So things are the data is looking well even though the people that are leaving the daily lives in the country are not having the best time yet because, you know, that also impacts their own livelihoods. And every time they go out, buy something, everything's expensive and it's hard to to get along, you know, But we I think I'm hopeful.

00:21:21:17 - 00:21:39:22
Unknown
I'm hopeful for for the things that this government is doing and hopeful that they will be managed to at least organize the economy, which is the thing that's really damaging a lot of businesses and a lot of people. And after that, we can sit down and discuss everything else. But that's, you know, basically once it's organized, we can discuss everything else.

00:21:39:22 - 00:21:43:20
Unknown
But let's get on that first organized way. It should be

00:21:43:20 - 00:21:46:01
Unknown
yeah. No, really interesting. Thanks for

00:21:46:01 - 00:21:47:17
Unknown
no worse.

00:22:08:23 - 00:22:24:04
Unknown
Yeah. So it came about some of the first few times that I started going out. Very often when the pandemic started, I was going out climbing two or three times a week and I was getting so annoyed at just finding the routes with the books, you know, with guidebooks.

00:22:24:06 - 00:22:32:02
Unknown
And we were sometimes looking for some specific thing. I wanted to climb. And we were just walking around the wall for like 20 minutes, just like, it's a little feature, this little feature

00:24:20:07 - 00:24:40:11
Unknown
that is cool. Yeah. I personally came across your Instagram and was just like, Wow. Like, what is this? You know, it's like, again, the same kind of response, like, Wow, someone's finally done it. It's like I knew it was coming, but I didn't know how or where.

00:24:40:11 - 00:24:42:22
Unknown
experiences as a lawyer, you said.

00:24:43:00 - 00:25:03:06
Unknown
So where does this technological skill and software engineering skill come in to not only, you know, come up with just the the inspiration for the idea, let alone knowing how to actually take it to a product Like bring us through that process.

00:25:03:06 - 00:25:28:06
Unknown
to being able to meet the right people, you know? Matt Which was my my co-founder, is the one that's behind all of the heartache behind it. I figured out, you know, how to make the 3D models work. How do goes can how to do all of those things. So my own and then when we got together and he could put it all together because he had all the right experience and he was a climber, you know, we started out relationship and started working together.

00:25:28:06 - 00:25:46:16
Unknown
And honestly, it's been probably the best working relationship I've ever had since I started working when I was 18. I think that the coolest thing that is that I found someone that's crazy and passionate as I am about what we're doing and who's willing to put forth in our work days if we have to one day because we're pushing for something.

00:25:46:18 - 00:26:05:08
Unknown
And I got to complain about it because he just loves it and it's so embedded in doing it just wants to make it happen. I feel like sometimes I feel like why there's not an app like this one out, out right now, you know, working and everywhere. It's because no one pushed it because, you know, some of the things are hard, but, you know, you need to make it happen.

00:26:05:08 - 00:26:24:02
Unknown
It's going to happen on its own. Honestly, I started I started the business after two years sitting on the idea because I was honestly waiting for someone to do it. I was like, It has to happen. It has to happen, and it just never did. So then I was like, okay, I'm going to start researching, figuring out how we can make this happen and and started working on it.

00:26:24:02 - 00:26:41:13
Unknown
Yeah. Really interesting, man. I mean, I guess that just for like, everybody listening here, you know, a go check out, you know, redpoint the app and then be it's like you're getting this like beautiful, really interesting 3D rendering of the rock and the crag with the lines and everything.

00:26:41:13 - 00:27:01:07
Unknown
And so it's very interactive and really, really great to like use and to look and to see. So how has this evolution happened? Because I've only been privy to this for like a couple of weeks, like what was the original kind of phase of this starting out? Like you said, you you tried to make it, you know, interactive, like almost like VR.

00:27:01:09 - 00:27:05:00
Unknown
So like, what are these improvements that you've made in this app since the beginning? Essentially?

00:27:05:00 - 00:27:20:15
Unknown
Yeah. So we started with augmented reality, right? Like I was mentioning before. But the thing is, all the tech to use that they were using to scan the walls and everything just made it, you know, so much more complicated and slow and you know, it was kind of old before with the data we were using.

00:27:20:15 - 00:27:37:19
Unknown
It would take us so long and now it is so much easier, you know, using drones or lighters. But depending on, we change a lot what we're using to scan, depending on what's allowed in the area. And sometimes you can fly through some places you can't. So we use other things and we just mix and match all together and try to to get as many places as we can.

00:27:37:21 - 00:27:57:04
Unknown
In some places you can't do anything. So those are not going to be in the app. That's that's the state of things. But we're trying to make the process better. You know, also at the beginning, what happened is that we can make the models actually look a lot ton better than what they look in the app right now.

00:27:57:06 - 00:28:04:23
Unknown
But the problem is that it kind of complicates the user experience because it just takes so long to load sometimes

00:28:04:23 - 00:28:11:19
Unknown
especially if you're like hiking and you're like, crap, let me get the 3D data and I've got one bar.

00:28:11:19 - 00:28:15:16
Unknown
You're like, Come on. And if you got like this eight K image,

00:28:15:16 - 00:28:17:20
Unknown
thing the cool thing about the Ibiza, it works

00:28:17:20 - 00:28:24:03
Unknown
okay, okay, cool.

00:28:44:10 - 00:28:49:18
Unknown
It probably was only 5 seconds. You know, our attention span is so short,

00:28:49:18 - 00:28:51:02
Unknown
back to tick tock, just like

00:28:51:02 - 00:28:55:22
Unknown
yeah, exactly.

00:28:58:01 - 00:28:59:15
Unknown
Yeah.

00:28:59:20 - 00:29:11:06
Unknown
could you explain lighter and then two can are you the only people who can scan to put things in the app or is is this people can scan Craig's themselves

00:29:13:03 - 00:29:19:13
Unknown
If you've been enjoying the climbing majority, please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:29:19:13 - 00:29:38:15
Unknown
Yeah. So basically right now I am sitting on ten walls from California and Colorado that we got sent by some people I working with. From there we started this thing called the Dirt Bag program, basically, which our intention is to allow climbers when they go climbing on their own.

00:29:38:15 - 00:29:57:03
Unknown
If sometimes the original idea came because of the name specifically, we were thinking about someone that's living on a van climbing every day and they can go scan something for us. If they own a drone or they have or they have an iPhone pro and they could go and kind of boulder for us, for example, with an iPhone pro and they can send us data and we can pay them a little bit for that.

00:29:57:05 - 00:30:17:06
Unknown
And they can, you know, basically cost for the day or for the camping or whatever they doing while the trip traveling around. That's where that that came came about. But that that would allow us to go a lot faster and that's how we've got in already. Daniel is from the United States and I'm actually flying tonight at 1:55 a.m. to Turkey.

00:30:17:08 - 00:30:18:06
Unknown
We're going to scan some

00:30:18:06 - 00:30:20:20
Unknown
Cool.

00:30:34:01 - 00:30:40:23
Unknown
What? So what are you using now to scan the walls, or is that is that proprietary information?

00:30:40:23 - 00:30:42:14
Unknown
have to kill you if he tells you

00:30:42:19 - 00:30:49:20
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. I'm just curious as to, like what? Like, Okay, so what are you using to scan the walls?

00:30:49:22 - 00:31:02:09
Unknown
And how can I use my phone to scan the walls? Like, what is the technology?

00:31:02:09 - 00:31:04:02
Unknown
that.

00:31:04:02 - 00:31:09:00
Unknown
I know at the how, I thought I was like this tech guy, and I'm just getting shut down right now.

00:31:15:07 - 00:31:19:08
Unknown
Can I scan it with this?

00:31:19:08 - 00:31:29:03
Unknown
Okay. Awesome. I feel better now. Okay. So? So, yeah, just run us through the options.

00:31:29:03 - 00:32:00:11
Unknown
Like what? What technology in the iPhone PRO allows it to scan and the same with the drone.

00:32:00:11 - 00:32:04:07
Unknown
And then this. So the drone has that same technology, the light, our technology.

00:32:04:07 - 00:32:12:13
Unknown
some drones have, some others don't. But we are we've found a way to bridge that gap on our own. And that is for Pi Day. Yes.

00:32:14:06 - 00:32:27:02
Unknown
Good to know. Okay, very cool. So if a drone didn't have the lighter technology, you're saying that, like, someone could take images or videos and then send that information to you and you could create something with it? Okay,

00:32:27:02 - 00:32:38:00
Unknown
I think an interesting like just this is tangential but another application of lighter. I could be wrong here but I'm pretty sure people can use it now to scan bolder holds and then get those

00:32:38:00 - 00:32:43:15
Unknown
Yeah. Yep. Yeah,

00:32:43:15 - 00:32:51:01
Unknown
Yeah.

00:32:51:01 - 00:32:54:02
Unknown
then. Sorry. Well, sorry. Your cheater buddy doesn't

00:32:54:02 - 00:33:01:15
Unknown
Yeah, it's not an on site.

00:33:01:15 - 00:33:14:07
Unknown
Let's go try. Yeah. That's like this. You went with an iPhone, scanned the the holes and printed them with a Samsung that printed it for them and put in the gym at the right angle and try to with that trained with that for a few months and then went and sent it.

00:33:14:09 - 00:33:15:03
Unknown
That's how I did it.

00:33:15:03 - 00:33:16:01
Unknown
that's really amazing.

00:33:16:01 - 00:33:18:04
Unknown
Yeah, that's. That's super cool.

00:33:19:04 - 00:33:27:18
Unknown
Yeah. Such an interesting application of technology in the world with climbing. It's like such a such an interesting way to. To use technology.

00:33:27:18 - 00:33:46:14
Unknown
from mining, from infrastructure, from, you know, sometimes geologists use all this data we're using as well, and it's tech that was developed for very heavy industries that spend millions of that are they were the ones that could afford to pay for developments and things like this.

00:33:46:16 - 00:34:01:03
Unknown
And only now this has gotten cheap enough that we can use it for something like this. And it makes sense, you know, because a few years ago would have been too expensive. You would not be able to do to make a product that was, you know, a reasonable for anyone

00:34:01:03 - 00:34:03:07
Unknown
and that it goes around your phone.

00:34:03:17 - 00:34:05:14
Unknown
And now we have it in our pockets.

00:34:06:02 - 00:34:08:00
Unknown
Yeah, Yeah, Really cool.

00:34:08:00 - 00:34:37:10
Unknown
I'm curious, because this dirt bag program piqued my interest, because, one, I'd love to contribute. I think it's an awesome project. I'm curious as to just some logistical questions, like if you're if you have an iPhone pro, how far away do you have to be or like because some crags are kind of blocked by bushes and stuff like can you just be at the bottom and like take, you know, do the scan or do you have to be certain far away are the rules for someone that might be interested in participating in this, in this project?

00:34:37:10 - 00:34:39:12
Unknown
mostly what we're trying to get people to do are boulders, right?

00:35:07:06 - 00:35:08:12
Unknown
That's cool.

00:35:40:10 - 00:35:56:03
Unknown
Now, the permit would be The permit would be for what? To bring a light scanner in there or because you can just go in there or to fly a drone. Okay. Yeah. Good luck.

00:35:56:05 - 00:36:02:07
Unknown
It's true. He did? Yeah.

00:36:02:09 - 00:36:19:19
Unknown
Jimmy. Hey. I don't think he was until he did finish free solo, so,

00:36:19:19 - 00:36:21:23
Unknown
Well, we'll figure it out.

00:36:22:00 - 00:36:24:11
Unknown
You know, we've been finding roadblocks along the way.

00:36:24:11 - 00:36:28:08
Unknown
Yeah,

00:36:28:08 - 00:36:45:02
Unknown
I think there's a second part to this. So, like, scanning the physical rock is is cool, and that's. I feel like half the puzzle. The second part of the puzzle to me is putting the correct route information on those scans and making sure it's the right route name.

00:36:45:02 - 00:36:53:18
Unknown
It's the right route grade, and potentially like information about the route itself. How are you sourcing that information?

00:36:53:18 - 00:37:09:03
Unknown
far we've been doing all of the drawing ourselves because we've been actually going and scanning all the places we've been. Actually, they're physically right. So we've seen all the routes and the cool thing is that for example, in, in some of the 3D models, you can see the bolts, you know, on the rock.

00:37:09:05 - 00:37:31:04
Unknown
And that makes things easy for us to, to just do that work. And then drone names and all those things are just, you know, publicly available sources, which is fine in my line where we can try and find a lot of answers, a lot of different sources because that information, it's basically like street names, you know, they're owned by the community and constraints over names and and grades.

00:37:31:04 - 00:37:50:15
Unknown
So that's public information. You can just use that. Then the hard work, which is what we're doing on our own, is just drawing the roads, you know, getting in the models, drawing the roads where I should be checking them and sometimes receiving feedback from users that are saying, hey, this is not going the right way and I'm just getting a call with them and they show me where it actually goes through and just change it.

00:37:50:17 - 00:38:02:02
Unknown
But soon, very soon. The idea is that we also are going to allow users to contribute and add the words on their own and put the names and everything. So that will also help us, you know, call outsourcer.

00:38:02:02 - 00:38:08:05
Unknown
yeah. It's quite a monumental task. There's lots of rock to scan.

00:38:08:05 - 00:38:14:12
Unknown
one of the things at the beginning when I started, I thought that the complicated thing, the actual hard thing was building tech.

00:38:14:14 - 00:38:36:02
Unknown
When I started working on it, I realized that the tech was the easy part. The hard part is all the logistics of it now, because there's so many different the whole world, because, you know, if you want to. That's why at the beginning we started here where we are in Australia and now we're going to Europe in the US, which is the two largest markets where most of the climbers live.

00:38:36:02 - 00:38:44:07
Unknown
Honestly, that that's the two places where most climbers leaving the world. And then from there we'll see where it takes us.

00:38:44:07 - 00:39:04:03
Unknown
So. So does any drone have a light or scanner on or more modern drones, essentially. And then, you know, do you are you essentially just filming the route and then somebody can just upload or send you a file of the footage? And you can you can, you know, from that have the data you need to to render it

00:39:04:03 - 00:39:29:20
Unknown
It's with that and one more step that we're I think that's why we figured out and with that, we can reconstruct the the whole model from there and keep it accurate, the size and everything. Yeah. No. Yeah, exactly.

00:39:29:22 - 00:39:51:01
Unknown
Yeah. So to make the files bigger, sorry to make the files smaller with figuring out that it's actually easier to do rather than a video to the pictures, you can set the drone to take pictures to two second intervals or something like that and do that the same way. Just, you know, a ten times less data and it's still good enough.

00:39:55:05 - 00:40:02:07
Unknown
What? Right now? What kind of compensation structure have you set up for people contributing?

00:40:02:07 - 00:40:29:06
Unknown
we're paying 20 bucks per wall, which is when it's a sport or tried track for example, and five bucks per boulder. And it's really on on the time that it takes to do to scan something like that usually I don't know. Well that's about 20, 25, 30 meters across, but by 30 meters high it would take you about 20 minutes is scan 2030 minutes can and in Boulder can take you five, 10 minutes.

00:40:29:06 - 00:40:35:04
Unknown
It's pretty pretty fast, honestly, with the phone so you can do quite a lot of they

00:40:35:07 - 00:40:44:11
Unknown
You could buy yourself an iPhone pro go just dirt bag for like, you know, two or three days straight and send you like a gazillion

00:40:44:11 - 00:40:50:00
Unknown
yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah yeah.

00:40:50:00 - 00:40:53:02
Unknown
That's that's really cool, man. That's it's very, very interesting.

00:40:53:02 - 00:41:00:14
Unknown
Actually Matt while I wasn't at the dinner for the holidays, Matt went to my co-founder, He went to Victoria and he scanned 50 boulders in one day. So

00:41:00:19 - 00:41:01:15
Unknown
Well, now

00:41:04:04 - 00:41:10:00
Unknown
we got to, we got to reach out to Brendan Brass and get him to scan the nooks.

00:41:13:09 - 00:41:15:05
Unknown
now because yeah,

00:41:15:05 - 00:41:39:15
Unknown
Do we get a referral? A referral compensation, like, Hey, Brandon scanned a thousand folders. Can we get five bucks? That's super cool, man. My next question is how are you going to handle mass adoption? So what happens when you have thousands of people sending you pictures every day?

00:41:39:15 - 00:41:54:19
Unknown
well, right now we're basically been doing this work the past month is really setting systems, automated systems to do a lot of it's in a nomadic form and we on the intervening where we need to. So we are and now how to process.

00:41:54:19 - 00:42:12:06
Unknown
That's actually pretty pretty good. We have probably 50 people contributing, which is a lot because one person can do a lot. And after that we're going to have to get, you know, start hiring some more people and get them to to help us do what we need to do, to do everything in that.

00:42:13:05 - 00:42:18:17
Unknown
What is your funding situation look like? Or have you created a revenue source? And if you haven't, what does it look like in the future?

00:42:18:17 - 00:42:24:18
Unknown
not yet. Basically right now, we're running on funds from investing for investment, basically.

00:42:24:20 - 00:42:31:04
Unknown
And the idea is that at some point later this year, we're going to start a subscription, a

00:42:37:10 - 00:42:40:13
Unknown
Cool. Very cool.

00:42:40:13 - 00:42:47:16
Unknown
And so long term, you're trying to essentially, like, categorize and render. Most of the major climbing

00:42:47:16 - 00:42:53:01
Unknown
yeah, yeah, exactly. We're basically going to be, you know, Strava for real climbers, basically.

00:42:53:01 - 00:42:57:19
Unknown
You know, that's that's what a lot of people compare us to. And I think it's a set comparison. And as they

00:42:57:19 - 00:43:01:03
Unknown
You should have like, like speed records at the bottom of

00:43:01:03 - 00:43:08:18
Unknown
Yeah, I bet.

00:43:08:18 - 00:43:16:01
Unknown
two people working on it. But we have so many cool things that we're working on that we have in the in the plan for this year, for next year as well.

00:43:16:01 - 00:43:40:23
Unknown
Do actually we have maps we that progress through the cracks coming out rolling two weeks into the abattoir. So we going to be able to also follow the trail like you do for example in in all trails to the base of the cliff or wherever you will, climbing. Same with boulders. That's another big feature that's we actually thinking on adding it a lot later about once the app was out there that was the most requested feature by by users.

00:43:41:01 - 00:43:45:19
Unknown
There were like we want maps, we want maps, really want maps. We had lost all the time trying to find the things

00:43:45:19 - 00:43:53:09
Unknown
crag, to get to the climb. That's really interesting. I was even thinking of that from an application standpoint of like ice climbing. It's like obviously a rendering of the ice climb itself wouldn't be

00:43:53:09 - 00:43:57:22
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.

00:44:04:09 - 00:44:09:22
Unknown
yeah, I think there's nothing complicated, but it's useful, you know, it's very useful actually.

00:44:11:09 - 00:44:22:21
Unknown
What about. So what about, like so right now your I see like, like app like Mountain project or is it 29 or 27 cracks.

00:44:22:21 - 00:44:34:08
Unknown
anyway. So like these are houses of lots of like user contributed data and information about the climbs like comments and the root descriptions and people's opinions on what these routes are about.

00:44:34:08 - 00:44:54:20
Unknown
And I think that's super valuable information. Do you see at some point not like being able to bridge the gap and like someone clicks on a route, having looked at the map and all that kind of information pops up? Like, I know that, you know, we just we just launched an episode talking about data rights and user contributions and what mountain Project is doing with that.

00:44:54:22 - 00:45:06:13
Unknown
Like, do you see some sort of symbiotic relationship where, you know, someone could explore your map and then go also at the same time without changing locations digitally? Get that information that you find on Mountain Project?

00:45:06:13 - 00:45:08:07
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I think that's definitely possible.

00:45:08:09 - 00:45:10:08
Unknown
I think we're going to open things for people to have to

00:45:17:18 - 00:45:19:15
Unknown
Yeah.

00:45:19:15 - 00:45:21:20
Unknown
on their own way, and also create new ones, you know.

00:45:21:22 - 00:45:44:06
Unknown
But I think one of the things that's really cool about what we built, in my opinion, is that that's not so useful anymore. You know, when you have a whole 3D model that's very detail of the area that you going to Now the comment now that description is not as useful as it was before when you had just a picture I was to the because you can get a lot more information from the 3D model than you could from a picture.

00:45:44:06 - 00:46:05:03
Unknown
You know, So the need for that kind of information just goes down, goes down dramatically, and maybe you would need, you know, some warning or something in a specific place or understanding what type of bullets are being used. If it was like here and trying to say, you know, what you're getting into, you know, things like that by descriptions themselves, not really important that much.

00:46:05:03 - 00:46:13:15
Unknown
Whatever potential for like gear recommendations or, you know, rack size or the amount of balls that that being put in something you're thinking about for the

00:46:14:02 - 00:46:44:20
Unknown
Yeah, that's that's definitely something that we're thinking inside feature as well, especially because when you're traveling around, sometimes, you know, they have different anchors, they have different types of bolts, and it's good to have that information so that when you get there, you know, have to tread. Trying to scour the Internet and find what this little thing coming off the wall listing what you can buy to use it, you know, you can know that it's a couple of balls and what kind of getting it to buy to actually make you walk and not not you say yeah exactly

00:46:44:20 - 00:47:13:01
Unknown
as as this technology progresses and as our, you know, cell phone processing power progresses, how detailed are these maps going to be able to be like? Are people going to be able to zoom in and see, like a sharp in focus bolt or a hold like it? How it like is is the limiting factor the lighter or is the limiting factor?

00:47:13:01 - 00:47:21:20
Unknown
Are processing power on our phones.

00:47:21:22 - 00:47:27:09
Unknown
Wow.

00:47:39:18 - 00:47:51:16
Unknown
For now. Yeah. What about the introduction of the Apple Vision Pro? Like, are people going to be able to explore your 3D maps with their visors?

00:47:51:16 - 00:47:58:03
Unknown
about because it's it's very competitive what we're doing. It's I don't know how really useful would it be

00:48:02:02 - 00:48:09:10
Unknown
your visualizing silence every night for a winter's day because you're really going hard, you know, that will probably hassle.

00:48:09:11 - 00:48:12:05
Unknown
But if you're not, I'm on dry and, you know, I don't know.

00:48:12:05 - 00:48:24:11
Unknown
Yeah. What about the ability. To virtually climb a route from ground to top using your technology and a technology like the Apple Vision Pro? You thought of something like that?

00:48:24:11 - 00:48:37:09
Unknown
this, I think Is this a video game or something that you can use in alkalosis I'm no wrong for climbing like that but I think it's based on VR in a way that someone climbed that route with that 360 helmet on or something

00:48:37:09 - 00:48:43:23
Unknown
okay. Okay.

00:48:56:17 - 00:49:02:11
Unknown
Unless you're Adam Ondra and you're on the ground and then exactly the same thing. Yeah.

00:49:16:15 - 00:49:19:17
Unknown
Yeah.

00:49:26:05 - 00:49:27:17
Unknown
Yeah.

00:49:27:17 - 00:49:29:03
Unknown
that point to think about.

00:49:29:03 - 00:49:42:15
Unknown
climb this healthy wall in our gym. You know, like, you feel like you're able to go in, like, climate and act like you're on your 70 for sure.

00:49:42:17 - 00:49:50:23
Unknown
Yeah.

00:49:51:01 - 00:50:07:10
Unknown
and then not at all. Yeah. Yeah. Once the goggles are all sweaty and chalky and nasty. Yeah. What has the community's response been so far, like? Mostly positive. Mostly negative.

00:50:07:10 - 00:50:15:09
Unknown
the, we've had barely some few bad experiences with some people but I can count them with the fingers in one

00:50:18:00 - 00:50:46:20
Unknown
All the people we've met at the crime scenes with the T-shirts and we were over there, you know, either climbing or or scanning the walls, and they were asking us what we were doing and they were all very excited, which is really good, because sometimes when you're working for so long in something and it's taking a lot of before and you going hiking everyday a few kilometers and scanning and he's like, how is this going to work, you know, and getting people there to, you know, smiling, get crazy about it and ask you about it and you hand in hand in my phone and they play with it.

00:50:46:20 - 00:50:59:19
Unknown
I'm like, this is awesome. So you come back from that day scanning, you know, feeling full of energy, even though you, you know, thrash from hiking ten kilometers away. But it's really cool, you know, it just gives you energy back.

00:50:59:19 - 00:51:12:16
Unknown
Yeah. Really interesting. Have you had any pushback from more so like climbing purists in the community? You know, like maybe could be like the older generation of thinking, like it's too much of an involvement of technology in with climbing. Like,

00:51:12:16 - 00:51:21:03
Unknown
But the funny thing is that probably some of the most excited people were like 60 year olds, which was something that I did not expect.

00:51:21:03 - 00:51:38:10
Unknown
You know, sometimes things happen and you're not how how is this, you know, happening? And they just messaged me. I was like, this is so cool. I thought about this when I was in my twenties, but they wasn't. There is great to see happen now. But then you have some 40 year olds that have a very strong, opinionated posture.

00:51:38:10 - 00:51:44:15
Unknown
It's like now you're going to lose the art of finding and that it is.

00:51:44:15 - 00:51:53:03
Unknown
You don't want to use it. Don't use it.

00:51:53:04 - 00:52:04:07
Unknown
Yeah, I saw. I saw one article written about you guys, and it called you guys the on site killer. And I thought that was a really funny tagline.

00:52:12:15 - 00:52:28:09
Unknown
It's going to be the episode title, just so you know. man.

00:52:28:09 - 00:52:31:10
Unknown
one of the things I figured out is that it's very hard to tell the proportions.

00:52:31:10 - 00:52:50:06
Unknown
You know, you can see the three model, you can understand it. It's hard to understand how big or small things are unless you are dual. You know, you can see it remind sometimes, even though you have how long the roots are in the data. There you can see that it's hard to understand it until you're standing in front of the wall.

00:52:50:06 - 00:53:18:09
Unknown
And when you look at the model in front of the wall, it's a different experience than looking at it in your house and of the crazy things that happened to us. Last week I met a friend of the gym here I was climbing and he comes to me very excited and says, Hey, you know, I met this girl a few weeks ago and we were on a day that he was explaining to me how her housemates and her every night they hook up their phone to the computer and to their sorry to the TV and open read point and spotted cracks in the TV so that they know what they're going to do next.

00:53:18:09 - 00:53:19:10
Unknown
And so looking

00:53:27:10 - 00:53:30:05
Unknown
Wow. That's cool.

00:53:30:05 - 00:53:37:04
Unknown
Yeah, I could totally get that right. You're, like, getting ready for, like, you know, your week. You're getting stoked to go climbing for the weekend and to go do that and.

00:53:37:06 - 00:53:45:15
Unknown
Yeah, and I think in relation to like, technology, if someone is kind of like, you know, not interested in that, it's like, well, you can just not use it and then

00:53:45:15 - 00:53:49:02
Unknown
yeah, exactly.

00:53:59:17 - 00:54:05:08
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. I mean, also, how many other people that really care that much?

00:54:05:10 - 00:54:21:08
Unknown
You know, in that sense, for me, it's all about, you know, I don't want to lose time getting lost, getting to the crag when I'm hiking. That's why we're putting the maps together, because that's annoying. When I go climbing, I want to go climbing. Sometimes when you are hiking, it's fun to get lost and find your way back.

00:54:21:14 - 00:54:39:15
Unknown
At least I time for me. But when you go climbing, you don't want to get lost. You just want to get to the wall and you want to start climbing. And it's all the time getting lost there all the time, just trying to find the route that they try. And that's the thing that's holding you back from, you know, doing two, three, four more times a day.

00:54:39:17 - 00:54:43:15
Unknown
And that's what I care about. And that's why that's why we put it together this way.

00:54:43:15 - 00:55:03:11
Unknown
absolutely. Yeah. The use cases there. And I think it's awesome that the community has been so responsive in such a positive way. And I mean, you've been doing great on Instagram. I love the way you guys are promoting. It's very just eye catching. It's different. People are just like, Wow, Like, what is this? So, it's really nice to see your guys's success.

00:55:03:13 - 00:55:11:04
Unknown
Exactly. Which is so amazing. Yeah.

00:55:11:06 - 00:55:12:19
Unknown
Yeah.

00:55:12:19 - 00:55:18:17
Unknown
I was actually thinking that we should do a Boston and introducing ourselves at some point that no one knows who

00:55:18:17 - 00:55:37:18
Unknown
Yeah.

00:55:37:20 - 00:55:56:08
Unknown
Yeah. Do you have any competitors that are starting to try to, like, take up some of the market share? That's cool.

00:55:56:08 - 00:56:03:15
Unknown
Very cool. It's awesome. Super exciting.

00:56:03:15 - 00:56:08:05
Unknown
are you coming to the West Coast when you come out to America to stop by Vegas?

00:56:08:05 - 00:56:14:14
Unknown
All right. Sorry. Or give me a ring while you're out here, and I'm. I'm going to take you up on your dirtbag offer.

00:56:14:14 - 00:56:22:01
Unknown
I want to give you guys a scan. I'll give you. I'll give you guys Calico Basin, and you can fly the drone there, so I'll be able to get stuff.

00:56:22:01 - 00:56:27:22
Unknown
You want to second the onboarding process with instructions? You want to send me? Send me like a

00:56:28:22 - 00:56:39:06
Unknown
Okay, cool. Awesome. Yeah. If I have the tools, I'd love to contribute if I can.

00:57:07:10 - 00:57:18:15
Unknown
Cool. Yeah. If someone's listening that is interested and might have the skillset or the equipment to do so, what they should what what should they do to reach out to you?

00:57:18:15 - 00:57:31:15
Unknown
the podcast comes out, we're going to have the new site up and the new website up, and there's a form there that's in the under that is going to be called Dirt Bike program, where you can just basically submit your details and we're making a list for that.

00:57:31:17 - 00:57:42:20
Unknown
Or is when you see that it's not out there yet, just shoot us a message on Instagram. I'm always replying pretty fast and I can, you know, so have a chat with anyone who's interested and go from there.

00:57:42:20 - 00:57:47:21
Unknown
Cool. Awesome. Max, you got anything else?

00:57:47:21 - 00:57:49:16
Unknown
know, it's everything, man. It's

00:57:49:16 - 00:57:52:10
Unknown
That's when I go,

00:58:00:20 - 00:58:11:09
Unknown
Yeah, very excited to get to the US and to Canada as well. Where are you in Canada by race.

00:58:11:11 - 00:58:31:13
Unknown
okay. And this is going to be I'm just going to get there at some point next year because one of my best friends lives in Vancouver as well. So and then I do. And since I can stay at his place and go skiing over there, I'm really gonna go do that.

00:58:31:13 - 00:58:42:02
Unknown
Yeah, that would be fucking awesome. Although that

00:58:45:23 - 00:58:46:20
Unknown
Awesome, man.