63 | Climbing Isn't Just White People Sh*t w/ Eddie Taylor

In today's ever increasingly polarized world it can be difficult to have challenging conversations. Kyle and I are well aware that the issue of representation in sport is one that does not affect us personally.

However we were lucky enough to sit down with all around rad dude, climber extraordinaire and recent new father Eddie Taylor to learn about his ascents and what his thoughts were on the topic of representation. As a black climber in a predominantly white climbing climate Eddie gives us his perspective.

For those who don't know Eddie is a very accomplished climber. He has summited Denali, he summited Everest as a part of the first all black Everest expedition under Phill Henderson he climbed the Nose in a day and sent Moonlight Buttress to name a few of his accomplishments.

Talking with Eddie it was clear though that climbing was only part of the importance in his life. Eddie is a chemistry teacher, track coach and he expressed the importance of family and giving back to his community.

In this conversation we discuss some of Eddie's notable ascents, what to look for in climbing partners, representation in the climbing community and much more.

Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.

Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Eddie Taylor and his Climbing Journey
• 13:01 Balancing Life, Work, and Climbing Aspirations
• 28:45 Diversity and Representation in Climbing
• 43:14 Reflections and Looking Forward

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:15
Unknown
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Kyle and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers like discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:24:20 - 00:00:33:07
Unknown
In today's ever increasingly polarized world, it can be difficult to have challenging conversations. Kyle and I are both well aware that the

00:00:33:07 - 00:00:54:09
Unknown
issue of representation in sport is one that does not affect us personally. However, we were lucky enough to sit down with all around rad dude, climber extraordinaire and recent new father Eddie Taylor to learn about his ascents and what his thoughts were on the topic of representation as a black climber in a predominantly white climbing climate.

00:00:54:11 - 00:01:20:18
Unknown
Eddie gives us his perspective. For those of you who don't know, Eddie is a very accomplished climber. He has summited Denali. He summited Everest as a part of the first all black Everest expedition under Phil Henderson. He's climbed the nose in a day and he sent the infamous Moonlight Buttress to name a few of his accomplishments. Talking with Eddie, it was clear, though, that climbing was only a part of the importance in his life.

00:01:20:20 - 00:01:37:05
Unknown
Eddie is a chemistry teacher and track coach, and he expressed the importance of family in giving back to his community. In this conversation, we discuss some of Eddie's notable ascents what to look for in climbing partners, representation in the climbing community, and much more.

00:01:50:02 - 00:01:57:05
Unknown
All right, everybody, welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast. We are sitting down here with Eddie Taylor. Eddie, welcome to the show.

00:01:57:05 - 00:01:58:18
Unknown
Awesome. Thanks for having me.

00:01:58:18 - 00:02:01:20
Unknown
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, we're just going to get get, get going here.

00:02:01:20 - 00:02:16:09
Unknown
Eddie, you are a I would say a very accomplished and I would assume a very busy person. You know, just as a, you know, a summarization of kind of some of the things you've done in the past, you know, you started in track and field.

00:02:16:10 - 00:02:38:21
Unknown
You were a decathlete. You got into climbing. You have a chemistry degree. You are now a chemistry teacher. You teach track and field. And in your climbing realm, you're also super successful. You have moonlight buttress under your belt, those in a de Everest. The list goes on by. My question here is, you know, how is this possible? How do you get all of this done?

00:02:38:22 - 00:03:01:00
Unknown
You know, life gets super busy. Do you technically have two full time jobs? You're a husband. You're a recent parent. And now, you know, entering the realm of a professional rock climber. I think there's plenty of people in the world that would consider just parenting and a full time job alone, almost too much to handle and feel like they might not have enough time for their hobbies.

00:03:01:02 - 00:03:07:12
Unknown
So how do you feel like you manage your time and how do you make this life that you're living possible?

00:03:07:12 - 00:03:26:17
Unknown
I mean, that's like a really hard question. Honestly, I don't even know. I just. I just try my best at every time. You know what I mean? Like, I give. I'm at work. I'm focusing on work. If I'm coaching, I'm focused on coaching. And I just, you know, I really try hard. I'm not doing either of those two things.

00:03:26:17 - 00:03:47:08
Unknown
And I'm not at home hanging out with my wife and kid as we're trying to figure out some time to climb. And it's it's hard. Like I can't really say it's a it's an easy thing. I've been trying to get a little bit more disciplined in the time I'm out. Actually climbing and, you know, you know, like, you guys know, you go to the gym and you like, talk and you hang out and you do those things.

00:03:47:08 - 00:03:55:13
Unknown
And now I kind of had to really tighten things up to try to try to maintain in all those different areas.

00:03:55:13 - 00:04:09:19
Unknown
this kind of lifestyle takes a you know, like you said, you have to trim things up their sacrifice, and that requires dedication and motivation. So like, what inspires you to try so hard and to try to achieve all these things that you've done?

00:04:09:19 - 00:04:18:05
Unknown
I mean, I love climbing, like ever since I started rock climbing and I love climbing, I've always tried to make it something that

00:04:18:05 - 00:04:25:09
Unknown
I, I, I don't know, something that I get out and do.

00:04:25:11 - 00:04:45:07
Unknown
And so, like, I've kind of, I've definitely, like, structured my life around how can I go out and how can I climb more and how can we make this happen. But also without giving up, like, like, yeah, it's kind of always the climbers dream to, like, quit your job and go on the road and live in the van and, you know, spend months and months on end at the creek or wherever you're at.

00:04:45:07 - 00:05:00:04
Unknown
But I mean, I've just the way I've grown up, I've always, you know, I've wanted to make sure that I can have a job and, you know, find that stability and also get back to the community. And and that's kind of what I do with my teaching career. And so for me, like, climbing is awesome. I love it.

00:05:00:04 - 00:05:18:08
Unknown
It's amazing. But at the same time, I don't think it would be as satisfying if I wasn't if I didn't have that other half where I'm giving back to the community and I'm, you know, working with kids and helping try to shape their future. So it's a hard balance. But things really fit together. If you kind of like really think about it, like with the teaching, right?

00:05:18:08 - 00:05:40:13
Unknown
You have summers off and those are not the best time to climb in the U.S. But you can still go to some really cool areas. And then with the teach in like throughout the year, it makes you have to be disciplined and training and have to be like disciplined in your time. And so I kind of feel like like it's almost like I have like a climbing season and almost like an all a training all season, which works really well.

00:05:41:05 - 00:06:02:07
Unknown
Yeah. It's interesting you bring that up. I think that's something we advocate here on the podcast a lot is is finding balance in our lives. I think that's one thing that I learned personally after my injury is that, you know, there was more in my life that I needed to find out and there was more meaning to be had outside of climbing and so it's interesting that, you know, you you found that early on and there's this calling that you have outside of climbing.

00:06:02:07 - 00:06:25:07
Unknown
But I think the interesting thing here is that, you know, your achieving these amazing things in climbing while still having the mentality. And I think a lot of people think that in order to achieve some of the things that you've done, whether that be nose in a day or moonlight buttress, where you need to dedicate a large portion of your time towards climbing and that might not be achievable without it.

00:06:25:09 - 00:06:41:16
Unknown
And I definitely, you know, feel like that a little bit like if I wanted to do some of the things you've done, I'd have to change my life tremendously and dedicate more time to climbing. So what do you attribute your your success in that realm with having, you know, dual focus in your life?

00:06:42:04 - 00:07:01:02
Unknown
I don't, I don't know. I mean, I guess I always feel like I need to do more to become a better climber and to do the next best thing. Like, I think that's kind of just a natural feeling that everybody has. and I think for me, it's just I think in whatever form, I love getting out, climbing, right?

00:07:01:02 - 00:07:17:14
Unknown
Like if I'm going to put a, you know, most of these trips, like even within my budget that started as, All right, I want to go on a big climbing trip firm. Okay. I got to take these days off. I got a plan. I start putting all the planning into it, and then I'm going to show up and I'm going to do the best I can.

00:07:17:16 - 00:07:39:17
Unknown
And so I can't really say that. It's necessarily like I am really focused on training to that level or to some level. It's just I'm, you know, that's my break. That's the time I have. But I'm going to go out and and like I said, do the best I can. I don't think so.

00:07:40:10 - 00:08:11:15
Unknown
You have a you have a very laissez faire attitude towards the, I think, or laissez faire or humble attitude towards these achievements and kind of your your performance in climbing. I find that interesting, you know, because I mean, I look at you and I'm, you know, inspired and like, wow, like how, you know, you get all this done and, you know, to hear it just like, yeah, you know, I just I make the plan and I go, you know, it it makes me wonder if, like, there's there's something else there.

00:08:11:16 - 00:08:17:17
Unknown
Max Like, do you have anything to add there in terms of just like that attitude and, and all that

00:08:17:17 - 00:08:41:20
Unknown
something that I'd like to just tease out a little bit more, and this is like, just totally self-interested from my own perspective is I think it's easy to see individuals such as yourself, Eddie, who do seem to, you know, maybe. I don't know. You might have a different opinion, but like I would say, like. Like you have it all you're doing so many things and there's kind of maybe a casual like, I don't know, like a kind of just put this together.

00:08:41:20 - 00:09:01:20
Unknown
And sometimes for me that doesn't fully tease out like actually the process that you went through to get to where you are and how you're feeling and how you've managed to do that. Does that make sense? Like to slowly, progressively take on more and more? At least that's the assumption I'm making. And like so an example I could give is right now I'm a full time student.

00:09:01:20 - 00:09:34:03
Unknown
I'm, you know, with my girlfriend. She works full time. You know, and she supports me. It's this really interesting kind of relationship. And I'm, you know, stressed to the max like my wife is is I'm struggling right now like in stress the max funny Max But and I you know, I am struggling a lot right now and I want to take on more And like I know like my partner Ray, like we want to have a kid, you know, like, we really do, but like, we can't see how that would be feasible at all to take on more responsibility right now and stuff.

00:09:34:09 - 00:09:54:02
Unknown
And so, like I look at someone like you are, it's like you've caught like I could dedicate ten lifetimes and I don't think I'd ever be destined to, like, climb, like, buttress or anything, even if I just lived in a van and did that. And so I'm wondering, like, was this process something that you kind of just like slowly developed or was this really like this, like arduous, hard process?

00:09:54:04 - 00:09:59:01
Unknown
And maybe you're underselling that a little bit? Like, what was that like for you, too? See, that makes sense.

00:09:59:01 - 00:10:04:10
Unknown
yeah, I mean, again, I mean, I guess it's everyone's experience, right?

00:10:04:10 - 00:10:21:14
Unknown
Like you're saying, you can never quite moonlight, but it's. There's plenty of climbs around like, man, I'm never going to climb 514. I'm never going to climb 515 I know I'm not 15, but, but like you know, I'm looking at those like, things. I'm like, there's things I can I'm never going to do. But I think that's change a lot of times in my life.

00:10:21:16 - 00:10:54:14
Unknown
And I would say like, like it's it's really hard to answer this question. I would say it. I when I was in college or in track and in track, I, you know, dedicated 35 to 40 hours a week training plus I had a double major plus, you know, I tried to maintain some sort of social life. And so, like, I was doing a lot then and, you know, it was just expected of you and that's what you wanted to do, you know, I wanted to make sure that I was, you know, doing the best I could in school.

00:10:54:14 - 00:11:09:22
Unknown
I felt like I had a lot of pressure in those regards as well. As, you know, track was a very important thing to my life. And so I was trying to balance all of those then. And I feel like by doing that for four years plus, you know, growing up I did sports and all of the things I think a lot of people have.

00:11:10:00 - 00:11:33:18
Unknown
But I feel like I got a I kind of got practice at having to balance those things and just having to take a lot on and, you know, having to just accept it like it's good, it's bad, it's just the way the way life is. And so I think, you know, moving past there when I think I had a little bit more flexibility in my life, I was more, I guess, my capacity to take on more was there.

00:11:33:20 - 00:11:56:08
Unknown
And I think that's kind of what helped me progress in climbing and to be out of balance. This happened like this many things. But with that said, I know you asked like, do you feel like you're a naturally gifted climber? Honestly, I don't. I just I'm a I just started a training program recently and I did the assessment and I'm like below one sigma in almost every category.

00:11:56:10 - 00:12:23:20
Unknown
Meaning like, I'm like far outside of the the range of average for, like, how much I can I can hang on a hang board, how long I can hang on the hang board, how flexible I am. So it's like not I can't say I'm the most gifted, especially when you start looking at those hard core numbers. But I think I do have a knack for learning technique and learning how to climb like use my what I have to the best of my ability.

00:12:23:20 - 00:12:39:19
Unknown
the ability to take on more of the ability to be busy all the time. I think that a lot of people who find themselves in that in that space experience, you know what's called burnout. I definitely ran cross-country and track throughout high school and I burned out.

00:12:39:19 - 00:12:59:21
Unknown
It was too much like I took on too much. And for me, I think it was because I lost a passion in what I was doing. How have you managed to avoid burnout and continue to have a passion for everything that you're doing because it's such it's so required in order to stay as busy as you

00:13:01:17 - 00:13:21:22
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I, I would say that after college track I competed a little bit afterwards in it. I actually I got, for lack of a better word, burned out from track as well. But with that said, I was still like interested in how far I could push myself and I loved the community that I had when I was running track, and I didn't really have that after college.

00:13:22:00 - 00:13:37:01
Unknown
And I and kind of when I got into climbing, climbing, it was like, man, you have success all that. Like, you know, when you race, when you're doing track or jumping or any of that is like you fail all the time. Like you're never doing better than you can, but climbing every time you hop on a new route, you're like, man, that's a success.

00:13:37:03 - 00:13:56:04
Unknown
I happened to try this other route. That's a success. You try a new style of climbing, that's a success. And so I feel like I really enjoyed that. And that's part of climbing that. I think it's really kept me inspired and invigorated. Plus, like the climbing community is huge. You know, everywhere you go, you meet a climber, you know, you see like they have like a Caribbean in their kids and you're like, man, you're a climber.

00:13:56:04 - 00:14:17:08
Unknown
I'm a climber. Cool. You know what I'm saying? So so, you know, you have that community. You have like all those markers and milestones for success, and then you get to travel and see cool places like those three things. I think for me, it helps me not get burnt out. On climbing. And again, like I know I have friends who, you know, they enter the sport, they lead the sport.

00:14:17:09 - 00:14:25:07
Unknown
A lot of times they're very focused on grades or what they can achieve there. And I, I guess honestly I haven't at this point. So.

00:14:25:07 - 00:14:46:23
Unknown
that's really interesting. Like what you're saying about maybe not necessarily being, like, super focused on grades and stuff. You know, I'm wondering if we can maybe dive into these to a sense we've kind of, you know, talked about here, which is the nose and moonlight. Like, what? What was this big like catalyst for you to want to take on these kind of projects?

00:14:46:23 - 00:14:50:18
Unknown
And and maybe if we can, like dive into that, that'd be really great.

00:14:50:18 - 00:15:19:02
Unknown
Yeah, well the knows that I guess I think I did that before when I the nose is interesting and so probably me one in the climb the nose started back in say 20 2018 I think anyways I went I guess in 2018 I climbed Mount Watkins with a coworker and it's a, it's a big climb in the valley.

00:15:19:02 - 00:15:38:12
Unknown
It's like one of the three biggest falls in Yosemite. You have Half Dome, Mount Watkins and you have El Cap. And so I was like, I was talking to my coworker and he's like, well, you've climbed Denali. You're like a pretty decent track climber. We should go climb a wall together. And I was like, Sure, I didn't know anything back then in terms of what big wall climbing was and whatnot.

00:15:38:12 - 00:16:00:21
Unknown
And so we put this trip together. We planned we didn't train at all, to be honest. He was like, yeah, I climbed. I climbed El cap like four or five times back in the day. And he's he was a bit older than me, but we didn't really train. And as we were getting closer, I was getting nervous and I asked a couple of my friends, Hey, okay, I know you've climbed the nose.

00:16:00:21 - 00:16:20:21
Unknown
I know you've figured out like, show me how to climb. I need to know how to climb first. I got this is not going to be a fun time. And so I went to this local crack where, like, I tell everyone, like, this is how you learn to climb the nose. You go climb this crack. But I went to country club crack and I spent probably two weeks there coming almost every day after work.

00:16:20:21 - 00:16:40:20
Unknown
And first I blame my friend and he kind of showed me how to eight eight up this crack. And then, you know, I got my turn on lead. And then I learned how to like top rope solo. And I started like, learning how to aid climb on top rope solo. And then kind of by the end of those two weeks, I was like, All right, well, I know how this how you lead rope solo, which you showed me as well.

00:16:40:22 - 00:17:05:19
Unknown
And so I could just like figure out all of the in there very slowly on my own. And this was probably like seven or eight sessions at that point. And it was time to go to Yosemite. And that was that was an adventure, to say the least. First of all, we drove into the valley and you know, you pass elk have and then you keep driving all the way to the back of the valley before you had to start this.

00:17:05:19 - 00:17:17:23
Unknown
I think it's like six miles to Watkins or something like that. I don't really remember. But we brought the biggest rock possible. I think it setting that triple rack. My coworker was like, we should bring a quad rack.

00:17:18:13 - 00:17:19:14
Unknown
Sounds like me on a

00:17:19:14 - 00:17:31:08
Unknown
yeah, yeah. And we were like, we want to go lt's only one hall back. So we brought a backpack and one haul bag.

00:17:31:10 - 00:17:50:03
Unknown
I ended up having to carry the whole bag and then it's supposed to be a clean air out. But it said, it could be messy. And they fixed pens or things. So we brought, brought a hammer. We brought all this metal that never left the bag the entire trip. And I had about a I would imagine a £100 pack hiking out to the base of Mt. Watkin.

00:17:50:03 - 00:18:08:04
Unknown
So it was pretty rough. And when we got there, I didn't know how to aid climb so well. I learned a little bit, but I didn't really. I still had never done it on a big wall. And so, like the first day, typically you climb the route and I mean, people do it in a few hours, but typically it's 3 to 4 days.

00:18:08:04 - 00:18:28:12
Unknown
And the first day we got two pitches up. And at that point my coworker was like, you know, the wall is just so big. I don't I don't know if I can lead anything. So we're going to the top. You're going to have to leave everything. And needless to say, we did get to the top, but that was on the sixth day.

00:18:28:12 - 00:18:49:20
Unknown
We were out of water. We topped out. We weren't going to climb at night at all because I guess modern climbers climb at night and back in the day they never climb to night. So we only climbed the night when we ran a water. We had to get to the top. So it was just it was slow and go a couple of pitches a day until the last day when we did the second half of the route because we kind of had to.

00:18:49:22 - 00:19:08:04
Unknown
And at that point I was like, I'm, I'm done. I'm going to quit climbing. This is this is too much. And we hiked all the way back down to the car. We went in like, I don't even remember where we slept, but I think we drove out of the park and we like, stayed at a hotel for that night, like eight some food.

00:19:08:04 - 00:19:24:16
Unknown
And I'm still like, Man, I'm done. But there was three more days. So my flight back home and we went back and we like hiked up to El Cap and I was like, Man, this is like a 20 minute hike versus this like four hour hike with a £100 haul bag and we were just like kind of exploring the base.

00:19:24:16 - 00:19:42:01
Unknown
And I was pretty worked at the same time. But when I got home, I was like, okay, wait a second. So you can climb a longer route, a cooler route. I'd actually I can't say the nose is much more cooler than Watkins, but longer out, cooler, out, way shorter approach. And you don't have to have £100 haul back.

00:19:42:01 - 00:19:51:06
Unknown
And that's kind of what really got me stoked on on wanting to do the nose. Yeah.

00:19:51:06 - 00:20:06:16
Unknown
That's really interesting. In general, do you just find that at least the sense that I get from you is like kind of a little laissez faire, but also, like, really, like, go getter attitude? Do you find that you stay just positive in bad situations pretty well?

00:20:06:16 - 00:20:25:08
Unknown
Yeah I think that's that's one thing that I do pretty well is kind of like I can kind of keep focus on the goal and, and stay positive and for me that's, I think that's something that like, I think that's why a lot of people want to climb with me or at least a lot of my climbing partners say they want to climb with me.

00:21:31:05 - 00:21:51:13
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. And I think part of it's kind of like, you know, there's things like, like I said at the end of that story, like, yeah, I really wanted to climb the nose because of all the X, Y and Z. But honestly, if I didn't have that opportunity, someone didn't drag me, they'd try Mount Watkins. Maybe I would have never gotten that psyched on the nose or felt like I was prepared to do it.

00:21:51:13 - 00:22:05:18
Unknown
So I kind of feel like there's a there's a balance between like goals that you set for yourself and you want to pick. And then those those just random opportunities. A friends like, Hey, do you want to go try this route or you want to go belay me on this route? You know what I mean? And then you try it and you these are like, okay, maybe I can climb this.

00:22:05:18 - 00:22:12:01
Unknown
Great. Or maybe I can do the super sandbagged route. So I kind of feel like it's kind of that balance, you know?

00:22:12:01 - 00:22:37:23
Unknown
Yeah. No, absolutely. Like, if I if I think of for myself, like, what got me into climbing like I was at this particular period of my life where I needed a lot of change. My mother was like terminally ill with cancer at the time. And this this gentleman, Terry Louis, at the the store I was working with, you know, he he just like one day we were talking, having a good laugh and he was like, Hey, do you want to go like ice climbing with me?

00:22:37:23 - 00:22:54:14
Unknown
And it was like, like, yeah, like, fuck, yeah, I want to go do that. That seems awesome. And like, went and did that. And that was my first time climbing outside ever. And it was like, you know, that day just, this was the greatest thing I had ever done. It wasn't really on my radar. I wasn't really thinking about it too much.

00:22:54:14 - 00:23:14:21
Unknown
I was getting into intern sports at the time, but like having that person, you know, be there to like, mentor, slash, offer the opportunity to me, like, completely transformed my life. Like, I just drove like, I'm not exactly the most talented climber ever, but like, I dove headfirst. It's like climbing was just like, it was like, whatever this is, it's so rad.

00:23:14:21 - 00:23:39:03
Unknown
I like my life, just needs this in it all the time. Like I am. I'm like full spiritually as a human being when I'm doing these kind of things, if that makes sense. Right? And, and yeah, it was life, life transformative. So I think that is like a crazy thing to, to think about for sure what was like the, the or sorry just but what was like the impetus or like the catalyst for you like getting involved in climbing like how did that happen?

00:23:39:06 - 00:23:43:06
Unknown
Who, who helped you with that? Usually there's someone I find helped you into that right?

00:23:43:06 - 00:23:57:09
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I kind of alluded to this a bit earlier, but like when I got I got to climb and I was getting burnt out of track and field, I was training by myself. I was still trying to pull what's a little bit higher than I had in college and I was getting better.

00:23:57:09 - 00:24:25:00
Unknown
But it's just hard to train by yourself. And I lived in Boulder for for I guess five years. At that point, I didn't know what climbing was other than like, you know, people going and climbing Mount Everest. It's kind of like my joke. I always say I'm like, that's literally all I knew about climbing before, before 2013. And a friend invited me to go climbing and I went out and she gave me a Gregorian, she gave me a harness, and I tried it for the first time.

00:24:25:02 - 00:24:32:22
Unknown
I blamed her on her five eight project and she said to and I went up after her and that was like my first day. They all climbing.

00:24:33:07 - 00:24:53:00
Unknown
Yeah, I think it's, you know, I'm not sure everybody gets that opportunity right. Like, you know, people like, you know, for myself to, like, brace. My buddy brace just invited me to climb the nose, and it's like, you know, why did he choose me? Like, you know, And why did someone invite the invitation to you, Eddie and Max, the same thing?

00:24:53:00 - 00:25:10:01
Unknown
Like, why is someone inviting this to you? Like, in a way, you know, there is a level of sacrifice. I guess it depends on the circumstances. But at the same time, too, it's like that person is choosing you for a reason. So like, what kind of person do you want to be and what kind of person are you to kind of attract that in your life?

00:25:10:01 - 00:25:33:04
Unknown
And I think that that boils back down to like just a general stroke for for life, for people putting yourself out in the community and being connected with other people have, you know, having a good, you know, good connection to the people, having a good attitude, like, you know, what other characteristic do you feel? You know, would it kind of attract more of those opportunities for people

00:25:33:04 - 00:25:45:05
Unknown
Yeah, I don't know. I guess like everyone picks partners for, for different reasons. I think like me and a couple of my other friends, we always talk about like our list of partners, right?

00:25:45:05 - 00:26:10:12
Unknown
And our list of partners is curated and in certain ways, right? Like mine, which I got from a a common partner, is like ability, compatibility and availability, right? Like if you have 2 hours of climb a week, you got to find someone who has time to go climbing. But at the same time, right, Like, okay, the time's working out like, okay, do they have the ability can they do that route that you want to do?

00:26:10:14 - 00:26:27:18
Unknown
Are they compatible? Will it be fun to do that route that that you want to do? And so I kind of feel like, at least for me, those are like the three things that I look at. And I think that it, you know, it kind of balances out a little bit, you know, like if the ability is not there, well, maybe you have to change the the objective if the availability is not there.

00:26:27:18 - 00:26:35:11
Unknown
Well, at this point in my life, well, it's just like too bad and yeah,

00:26:35:11 - 00:26:48:13
Unknown
of choosing a partner. I like that a lot. I think the one thing that's funny that I've run into is like, you know, I've been blessed and where I haven't had a lot of issues trying to find a partner. And I kind of wondered for a while I was like, like, that sucks.

00:26:48:13 - 00:27:05:18
Unknown
Like, why are people struggling to find partners? And then I realized it's like, because I'm not climbing that hard, you know, it's like when you get to a certain level and you're starting to choose these harder climbs, the pool of people that you can climb with starts to shrink rapidly. And so it's just becomes really hard to find someone that the ability.

00:27:05:18 - 00:27:06:18
Unknown
PILLAR like you were saying.

00:27:06:18 - 00:27:28:11
Unknown
yeah. And you always like you kind of get locked into like the same the same group of people. And I think that's I mean, it's nice and it's also it's hard a lot of times in general, right? Like I get locked into climbing with my same, same couple partners and I've, I've definitely made a effort in the last couple of years to kind of expand that because one, you just learn from more.

00:27:28:13 - 00:27:47:04
Unknown
The more people you climb with, the more you learn from. And then also I think that like I mean, it's just the reality of it. Like climbing is a sport that is in, you know, only small certain groups of people climb, right? Like in general, like things have changed for the past year by, you know, even talk about like race, right?

00:27:47:04 - 00:28:05:11
Unknown
Like I until two or three years ago, I had climbed with my sister and pretty much no other black person. And that's because, you know, that's that's you know, I live in Boulder, Colorado. That's what I you know, the folks I'm locked into climbing with all the time. And I know that they're available. I know that we're compatible.

00:28:05:11 - 00:28:15:14
Unknown
I know they have those abilities. And so I think like like there's pros and cons to having those same partners, but also it's definitely keeps the sport the way it is.

00:28:15:14 - 00:28:41:06
Unknown
So I think that's an interesting thing to tease out there. And like, you know, there's like the obvious, like elephant in the room here for everybody watching the video, like, you know, Kyle and I are two white dudes, like, you're a black dude and climbing is this you know, it is this like European, you know, Caucasian centric, kind of dominated sport and so I guess, like, how do you view representation in the climbing community and like, what are the implications of that, if that makes sense?

00:28:41:06 - 00:28:43:13
Unknown
Like what does the importance of this representation?

00:28:43:18 - 00:28:53:04
Unknown
a I mean, I think it's just important in anything you do, right, Like if you can't see yourself doing it, then why are you going to have why are you going to want to want to do it right?

00:28:53:04 - 00:29:15:13
Unknown
Like, I mean, most I mean, obviously that's changing, but most of us climbers didn't grow up with our parents climbing, right? If you're black or white or Mexican or whatever, like your parents think of climbing. But if you are interested in climbing, you look like, okay, well, maybe I want to try this thing called climbing or I want to go climb El cap or I want to go do these things.

00:29:15:15 - 00:29:34:14
Unknown
You don't see anyone that looks like you like when you pop into a Google search or something like it's not going to be something that you're going to have this strong desire to do, even if it's just subconscious, you know? And so, yeah, I mean, I would just say most people aren't outdoors people. So I'm not trying to say like, you know, one person's more suited to that than the other.

00:29:34:14 - 00:29:40:23
Unknown
It's just when you start looking at it, it that's where I think representation is really important.

00:29:40:23 - 00:29:52:05
Unknown
think would correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you had said that in the climbing community there is approximately 1% of representation of black athletes in the climbing community. Is that is

00:29:52:05 - 00:30:07:20
Unknown
That's from, I guess, American Alpine Club Study, where they like interview climbers. I actually don't know how scientifically accurate that is or isn't, but yeah, yeah.

00:30:29:11 - 00:30:57:18
Unknown
I mean, yeah, at the most basic level. I mean, I think that's that's what's at play. But I mean, there's there's plenty of other other reasons, right. Like I think it's really hard to I joked about earlier like I would never want to in my like for my lived experience, I would never want to like risk the safety of a nice, you know, having my nice job and things like, well, teachings and I can't say it's a nice job but a Japanese enjoy to to go live on the road and and live in my van and whatnot.

00:30:57:18 - 00:31:17:04
Unknown
And I think that just like as a community, I think the I can only really speak to the black community. But like, I think a lot of people haven't grown up with that. Like a lot of people, you know, they're they're one generation out from their families owning a home or one generation out from maybe at least me, like my parents getting a degree in college, you know.

00:31:17:04 - 00:31:48:00
Unknown
So I think I think societally wise, I'm not saying every individual, but I think that that becomes a lot more difficult to really take it and get get into climbing, if that makes make sense. And then, you know, there also is a lot of like history of like climbing in small towns and, you know, all the the racism and things that we have in our history that that does make climbing a little bit more difficult and feel inaccessible.

00:31:48:04 - 00:32:13:16
Unknown
But I mean, at the end of the day, I think that representation pieces like the thing that we can like concrete fix right now as well as, you know, I mean, I bring this back to teaching. There's some statistics out there where like 2% of the teachers are black male teachers. And there's also statistics that you are significantly more successful if you have a teacher that comes from your demographic or if you have one teacher that comes to your demographic.

00:32:13:18 - 00:32:41:00
Unknown
So, you know, think about like I talk, you know, it's funny cause I've used this example at school, right? If you're a white student in my school, my school is like 30% Latino, 70% white. There's maybe one Latino teacher if you're a white kid in my my school. Or it can be more specific, like a white girl at our school, you're going to have 75, 80% of the teachers are going to be like, you raised a white lady.

00:32:41:02 - 00:33:00:02
Unknown
But if you're a black kid or you're Latino kid at that school, they're them very small, very, very small percentage that in your entire high school career, you're not going to see a single person that looks like you. And so it just again, I don't know the mechanism behind it, but it does make things harder to learn. And so you think about that community wise, right?

00:33:00:02 - 00:33:17:14
Unknown
Like there's not a lot of black people climbing, but then someone tries to get into in the climb and they don't see anyone that's like you. And maybe you've come from a community where you've learned from people that I've been more like, like you. So it's a little bit harder to to learn. That makes sense.

00:33:17:14 - 00:33:31:02
Unknown
I think it's a I think it's an interesting point. And like obviously like, you know, you kind of use the phrase lived experience. Like, I don't have this lived experience at all, you know, like, this is not something that I can like put myself in the shoes of and the credit to that like.

00:33:31:03 - 00:33:47:15
Unknown
But something I am wondering is so, for example, you are this anomaly, you could say, right. And so what do you a credit or maybe maybe just like elaborate a little bit, what do you feel kind of got you in the door into this community despite that lack of

00:33:47:15 - 00:34:08:16
Unknown
Yeah. I mean, my mom's first job, she she worked for the Indian Health Service, and so we moved around all around the country and we lived in, you know, when I was really young, I lived in primarily black neighborhoods, But from seven A on, I was living in a lot of different communities.

00:34:08:16 - 00:34:33:08
Unknown
I lived in Michigan where we were one of the few black families. I moved to Gallup, New Mexico and Kayenta, Arizona, and Cantu, Arizona. There were like five families that were non Navajo and the entire entire town. So, I mean, that I think that that's a very interesting, interesting place to live. And then I moved up to Minnesota, where again, I was one of the maybe two black families in the small town we lived in.

00:34:33:10 - 00:35:01:00
Unknown
So like, I've been very I guess I've been conditioned to scandal of conditions, the right word, but I've spent a lot of time in my life learning and, you know, getting to know people that are outside of, you know, my the way I was brought up. And so I spent so much time doing that that I think like it was kind of more natural for me after, you know, graduating college to be like, yeah, I can you know, I can climb, I can learn these, these things.

00:35:01:02 - 00:35:05:23
Unknown
I can be be good at these type of things. I don't know.

00:35:05:23 - 00:35:23:00
Unknown
No, I think that's interesting. And like, I don't want to put words in your in your mouth, but at least to me, like maybe what I tease out of that is like from your own experience moving around and having these different, like cultural experiences and being exposed to these different groups, there's almost kind of this like mutual, like symbiosis, right?

00:35:23:00 - 00:35:36:14
Unknown
It's like, like I benefit from that and you benefit from that from us being exposed like, to these different kind of like you could call it societal norms or cultures or differences, right? Where it's like there's, like this, this growth that both people can experience.

00:35:36:14 - 00:35:58:19
Unknown
Yeah, 100% agree, 100% agree. I mean, I always talk about these things in terms of like I mean the representation is a hard topic, right? Like you're not you don't want to alienate people. You don't want to like, like I'm never like calling someone out or saying saying anything like that.

00:35:58:19 - 00:36:18:02
Unknown
But I mean, I think it's a hard topic, but I mean, I just think as things get more normal, normal like it helps everybody, right? Like it's not weird all of a sudden to see a see a black person at the crag, like that's just normal. Like it doesn't have to be for some type of special diversity event or something like it's like, now I live, I live 50 minutes from alto.

00:36:18:03 - 00:36:27:04
Unknown
I climb there two or three days a week because I live close to there and that's just normal. And I think the more that the more people are out, the more normalized that is, you know.

00:36:27:04 - 00:36:31:20
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, obviously, I don't know from personal experience,

00:36:31:20 - 00:36:35:09
Unknown
Yeah,

00:37:10:14 - 00:37:24:22
Unknown
sometimes we can be in our own local areas and, and assume like, like, you know, maybe that's happening everywhere. You know what I mean? When in reality, like, for example, like I live in D.C., it's a pretty progressive area.

00:37:24:22 - 00:38:00:09
Unknown
We talk a lot about like just race relations. And particularly here, there isn't like a large black culture. Obviously, if anybody's been to B.C., understands, like there's a lot of these issues are kind of analogous to the Aboriginal issues, right? And so, yeah, like, you know, it's easy to like project like, everybody's having these discussions or everybody's aware of this and then you hear of examples like this and it's like, I don't really know how that would affect me as an individual and maybe it's easy to brush that off and so I'm wondering like, how much do you attribute that to really like having affect like on individuals getting into these sports?

00:38:00:09 - 00:38:01:09
Unknown
Does that make sense?

00:38:01:09 - 00:38:23:02
Unknown
know it makes sense and I mean, honestly, for me, like, it's just like a funny story. Like, I don't really feel like I'm like, man, that guy, like, pointed me out, but I've just been so used to that. But I think for someone else, like, like someone else who hasn't had a lot of those experiences, they, you know, that might feel like, man, I'm, I'm, I supposed to be here.

00:38:23:02 - 00:38:53:13
Unknown
This seems weird. You know? But yeah, I mean, you're right. People are just in general are so much like so in their bubbles. And it's just it's the way it is. I mean, I don't know. I always think about this example, like, so like my wife is always like, there's no way like how a Trump win. And then I'm like, well, you look at the Facebook and like, the town I grew up, I grew up on, like every single person voted for Trump.

00:38:53:15 - 00:39:07:02
Unknown
And then we live in Boulder and every single person's like, you know, anti-Trump. And so it's just like everyone lives in this bubble where they're like, they feel like every single other person in the world thinks exactly the same way they do, which is obviously just not not the case.

00:39:07:02 - 00:39:32:22
Unknown
yeah. I think t to also like to something out there, which I at least at least my estimation on these incredibly inflammatory, you know, like politics, race, a lot of these things have almost become like sports teams, you know, like to sides yelling at each other. And, and the reality is like, we actually want either side to get together and, like, have a conversation.

00:39:33:00 - 00:39:56:06
Unknown
Like it's in everybody's best interest. Back to like what you alluded to, where it's like having these different cultural experiences is like symbiosis to like get people to like, get together. But sometimes it's easy to kind of just do like finger pointing at other groups, if that makes sense. And that like, is divisive in itself. Just like makes you makes the person not receptive to the conversation or the argument you're going to have.

00:39:56:06 - 00:40:26:06
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like for me, it could be really easy. And like, I feel like going out on a limb here, buddy, it'd be really easy for me to just blow off like, so what? There's not that many, like, black people in your area. Like, how could that really affect you, You know, getting into climbing. But like, in reality, that actually really could have like a drastic effect in, like, just dismissing that argument is like a really bad idea because like, I don't actually understand that from my position because I've been fortunate enough and, you know, people would use the terminology like privilege to to not have to experience that or deal with

00:40:26:06 - 00:41:05:17
Unknown
that. And so I just think like there's like, there's like a middle ground here. I don't know, like to to just trying to create a path where, yeah, like you can just get somebody who's maybe not as receptive to your idea, to be receptive to that idea, you know what I mean? Like, like I've seen online where like people have been in comments, sections of Instagram or something like Kai Lightner would be a good example of this where like, I've seen him post like things in the comment section of like people just kind of really missing the point of like certain things he's trying to make about like representation or his like recent ascent.

00:41:05:17 - 00:41:17:17
Unknown
Yeah, I forget the name of the climb. It's like a 515 a climb, but like it's just easy to like to miss the point and be inflammatory in today's age, if

00:41:21:05 - 00:41:37:17
Unknown
No, no, it makes sense. It makes sense. And and honestly, I think, you know, most most climbers from honestly, most climbers, regardless of background, I think, want to just talk about climbing and not have to feel like they have to talk about representation and those type of things.

00:41:37:17 - 00:41:53:08
Unknown
But I think I mean, you don't want to you don't want to like I mean, you you want to make room for the people coming after you, I think. And so that's kind of why I think a lot of a lot of people from different backgrounds feel like they they have to talk about those type of things and they have to talk about representation.

00:41:53:08 - 00:42:05:17
Unknown
They have to I mean, I talk about representation a lot, and sometimes I don't actually. Sometimes I just talk about pure sport, you know, it's what I call it. But

00:42:05:17 - 00:42:25:23
Unknown
when we were talking about bubbles, I too am in a, in a very I would consider a pretty small bubble and mixing this with the comment that the guy made on, on the ski lift, you know, if I were at a crag and I saw a black climber, I, I wouldn't even really see that person as like a black person.

00:42:25:23 - 00:42:48:05
Unknown
I'm like very colorblind in that way. I'm not going to like, make a comment, be like, there's a black person here, you know? And so, like to me, like those kind of comments, like the guy made on the chairlift are mind blowing to me that people are even saying these things. And if someone were to ask me like, you know, if I would be surprised, I basically what I'm saying is I'm surprised that someone would say that.

00:42:48:05 - 00:43:10:16
Unknown
So I'm curious if you can try to help me understand a little bit in terms of maybe some more experience, more experiences that you've had at the Crag that were maybe like that, that someone you know is kind of recognizing race in a way that might be perceived in a weird way from you and whether that's, you know, meant as a, you know, a positive or as a negative from that person.

00:43:10:18 - 00:43:17:15
Unknown
I'm just curious as to to kind of some, you know, ideas or some experiences you've had in that realm.

00:43:17:15 - 00:43:29:19
Unknown
honestly, like, I can't say I've had a lot of those experiences recently. I mean, I have have here and there definitely more when I was was definitely more the past than I've had now.

00:43:29:19 - 00:43:47:22
Unknown
But I think a lot of times, I mean, you hear this happen all the time. I have a lot of female climbing partners and like, you know, they'll show up to a crag, right? And it's always like, okay, people just assume that like they're like friends. I climb with Nina Williams a bit and like, literally we were climbing the diamond.

00:43:48:00 - 00:44:05:01
Unknown
This is like two or three years ago, maybe two years ago. Now we're climbing the diamond, right? And like, I show up, show up to the top of the first pitch and we're still climbing up on the diamond. And people are like, I'm not sure if they should pass. Maybe you can pass. no, you can pass.

00:44:05:06 - 00:44:23:16
Unknown
And then like as I was going by, they looked down. They're like, wait, his partner's a girl. Like, I hear them talking to each other. I'm like, You guys know that? Like, my partner climbs like crazy, harder than you guys ever will. And you guys are being guided off this right now. And so I think women face a lot of that at the Crag, even if they're not.

00:44:23:18 - 00:44:54:06
Unknown
People aren't like, man, she's a woman here or there. But a lot of times people get, you know, the questions will be directed to the man, The questions will be directed like, you know, assuming that like the guy lead this rule here or there. And I think that that's like a really interesting thing. And that that happens to me a lot, you know, I mean, even happen like people, you know, you can kind of almost see it in their faces like, you know, me and like one of my like my wife or one of my female partners and like, okay, so it's this black guy leading it or is this woman leading it?

00:44:54:06 - 00:45:18:19
Unknown
Like, it's kind a Yeah. And like and a lot of times, like, you know, it definitely I think it's sometimes a generational thing, sometimes not, because, I mean, there's plenty of, you know, long time climbers that are are great and I know them. We have great reporters. And then there are people who are like, I've been climbing here for a long time and like, you shouldn't be climbing this route this way or doing this thing.

00:45:18:19 - 00:45:36:11
Unknown
Like that's I've had those exact like showed up to an ice crag and someone's been like, that right? It's not eatable. And I'm like, Yeah, it is. Yeah. So that that happens. And I think it's it's just weird.

00:45:36:11 - 00:45:50:15
Unknown
that's really interesting. And I mean, that just makes me like sort of beat a dead horse here, but like, go back to this, like, bubble. Like for me, in my own bubble, it's like, like I show up to, like, climb base five is this like local gym? For me? It used to be the edge. Like, I show up there.

00:45:50:15 - 00:46:05:10
Unknown
I'm an incredibly self-deprecating person. I have the build of like a rugby player, like, you know, like a large hundred and £98 man. And then like, I go there and there's like eight year old, like girls, like, you know, climbing by like a 30 year

00:46:05:10 - 00:46:12:03
Unknown
Yeah.

00:46:36:23 - 00:46:44:23
Unknown
Yeah,

00:46:44:23 - 00:47:03:05
Unknown
maybe ignorance like in that statement for me. But like Kyle kind of alluded to this a little bit earlier, and I'm wondering like what your thought process on. Like what do you think of the model of like moving towards like colorblindness, like, you know, like I'm just like not viewing race or not viewing sex at all?

00:47:03:05 - 00:47:10:22
Unknown
Like, is that something you adhere to or is there, like different models of, like thinking about, like this long term that you can think about?

00:47:10:22 - 00:47:18:12
Unknown
it, it's really hard and that, and I kind of go back to some of my teaching training when I think about this, right?

00:47:18:12 - 00:47:42:07
Unknown
Because everybody does come in with unique, unique challenges and unique things that have faced them societally wise, wide. Right. We talked a little bit about that earlier in terms of like if you're you know, you think about, okay, why? Why aren't there more this person or this person out climbing? Well, you kind of kind of think about what where they come from.

00:47:42:07 - 00:48:10:12
Unknown
And so I don't necessarily think that like the colorblindness in all aspects is sorry, I haven't really thought about this for here, but in all aspects is like that is the best way to handle it. But also like I mean, I think it's just like humans forming biases is like a natural process, right? Like climbing is dangerous. Like climbing is really, really dangerous.

00:48:10:14 - 00:48:33:05
Unknown
Like you can die by one mistake. And so, you know, I think a lot of people in general, right. You you make these assumptions, you make these stereotypes just based off of lived experiences. Right. And so if you're at the Crag and you see someone getting ready to like I mean, here's an example. We said I was like three years ago, we were at this crag.

00:48:33:05 - 00:48:57:11
Unknown
We we were we were at Aldo. And I saw this group of two guys with bright, shiny new cams like shoes that you would climb in the gym with, ready to like getting ready to assemble, climb this like there was a58 rule that had some consequence on it. And I didn't say anything. And, you know, I kind of felt bad because they Epic's pretty bad on that thing.

00:48:57:11 - 00:49:17:02
Unknown
Like right after the second pitch. And it's like, okay, well, I did make an assumption that they probably were going to struggle. They were like from, the things I noticed, right was brand new shiny cam. So either they're like, you know, they just got them for some reason or they always use new cams or they're brand new climbers.

00:49:17:02 - 00:49:34:10
Unknown
But I you know, you could have made those assumptions. And I and I did, but I didn't act on them. And so, like, was it right? Was it wrong? I don't really know. And so I think, like, if you're someone who's not used to seeing competent people of color out climbing, you're not used to seeing competent women out climbing.

00:49:34:12 - 00:49:53:17
Unknown
Those are wrapped into those same assumptions that I made about those folks with the brand new shiny cams and like tarantulas is, I don't know. So it's really hard to like sorry, sorry and not know this and the tarantulas as

00:49:54:23 - 00:50:18:21
Unknown
But yeah, I mean, I think you bring up an interesting point. I think that, yeah, I mean, you in that situation could have prevented something bad from happening, but you are also projecting your own or observations on those people. And it's like in the end it's, it's a, it's a hard line to dance like, you know, I'll ultimately obviously the main rule here is like, be positive.

00:50:18:21 - 00:50:47:13
Unknown
Like don't use your biases to, you know, present any sort of negative emotions or negative feelings or put people down or to just be negative or hateful in any way. Like, obviously that's not acceptable and no way anybody should be living. But even if someone's trying to be positive and trying to help somebody else, if it's based around this bias of race or their understanding of the person's appearance, I could see how that could be taken.

00:50:47:13 - 00:51:09:13
Unknown
Kind of a little bit like like, come on, dude. You know, like, why are you making that assumption of me or something like that? So in your shoes of somebody who might be making those assumptions, like what do you feel like the best route for people are? Is it just like to kind of just keep those comments to themselves or, you know, should we be saying, you know, what we're thinking?

00:51:09:13 - 00:51:10:22
Unknown
Like it's what do you

00:51:10:22 - 00:51:30:16
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I guess like when I reflect on that situation I just brought up, I think like, I guess as long as long as your assumptions not necessarily based off of like their appearance or their gender or any of any one of those type of more like class class type of things.

00:51:30:18 - 00:51:57:10
Unknown
And it's just based off of like pure observation of I think it's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, it's hard to like what are those exact like this? Is there a checklist? All right, Like, are you going to go and, like, analyze and check off the people at the crack? You know what I mean? So it's it's such a weird thing.

00:51:57:10 - 00:52:13:11
Unknown
And like, you know, and I don't think it's as bad and sport climbing or in Boulder in where that's it's less consequence but as you start to get to things that are just significantly more consequence like I mean ice climbing like you don't want to fall at all right. And if someone takes a big fall in or out, that's like everyone's having a bad day.

00:52:13:11 - 00:52:31:01
Unknown
So I can I see kind of both sides of it. But at the same time, like, I definitely know how know how it feels to be one of those people that that that happens to. And like I said, I climb with lots of female climbers who that happens to regularly as well. So it doesn't feel good. And I, I just don't really have the answer.

00:52:31:02 - 00:52:34:12
Unknown
It's it's hard

00:52:34:12 - 00:52:41:17
Unknown
situation to navigate and there's kind of like assessing somebody on competence and then from an underlying position of safety.

00:52:41:17 - 00:52:51:17
Unknown
But then like, is your assessment of competence really like objective, which is of course like there's always bias in every situation or like, have you, you know, created this a

00:53:12:19 - 00:53:17:18
Unknown
and I know of them. Yeah. I think if I

00:53:27:15 - 00:54:47:21
Unknown
yeah

00:54:47:21 - 00:54:51:14
Unknown
I mean I guess it means that of her you wanted to I mean I,

00:54:51:14 - 00:55:03:09
Unknown
I know I think when my friend I guess a friend quit I'm more friends with the writer now than I was before, before she wrote it. But I don't think that that wasn't her intent on writing the article.

00:55:03:11 - 00:55:24:13
Unknown
I think she was really stoked and inspired by it. And I think that that's kind of where climbing took it and ran with it. And it was I mean. I remember the Instagram comments for that thing. Like people are like, See, look, he says he doesn't care about this and like people are using it to prove like both points and it wasn't like that I cared or I didn't like I didn't go climb that thing to be the first black person to climb when.

00:55:24:16 - 00:55:48:21
Unknown
But yes, I mean, I actually did it because my friend James is like, Hey, well, you're not going to climb elk, have the wet weather shitty. You should probably. I mean, what is bad? Sorry, let's go climb on my buttress. And he kind of like pushed me to go try that. And I, I did like so that was, that was it really like I wasn't like I was out to set some kind of statement or that I honestly didn't even think I'd send nothing.

00:55:48:22 - 00:55:51:08
Unknown
So

00:55:51:08 - 00:56:10:17
Unknown
Yeah, I guess. I guess. Okay. I totally understand that. And I feel the I my understanding would be like, you know, again, back to the topic. It's like you're a climber, you climb to moonlight buttress. Like, that's a huge accomplishment. You know, you weren't going into it being I'm going to be the

00:56:41:02 - 00:57:02:11
Unknown
I'm like, that's, that's just so hard because like, I, my experiences are the same as every other person of color. And I think like, like after I did send Moonlight Butters, I think a lot of people, a lot of people were stoked about that. I think people from underrepresented communities were like, man, I see a person of color doing that.

00:57:02:11 - 00:57:28:09
Unknown
That is awesome. That's something I can do. The other one that I got, like that kind of surprised me was a lot of people who work full time were like, yeah, he's a teacher and he took a couple of days off of work and went and got this thing done. Like, that's awesome. Like, I mean, I typically, I guess technically I am a pro climber now, but usually it's like people who climb full time are the people who are, you know, doing these really big ascents.

00:57:28:11 - 00:57:51:08
Unknown
Not to say that there's other there's definitely other like 9 to 5 hours who are going up there and sending when they buttress. But I think that like that representation in any of those realms I think is important to help you think about what is possible because, you know, it's really hard to know your limit personally, right? Like we all say, like there's these things we can't do.

00:57:51:08 - 00:58:14:00
Unknown
I can never do this. I can never do that. But once you start seeing people that are somewhat similar to you walking in your shoes, doing those similar things, I think that goes a long way. And I think that I don't think you have to have first X, Y or Z asset, but I think being able to tell and share those stories that aren't just like person goes and climbs 515 D and you're like, What?

00:58:14:03 - 00:58:34:23
Unknown
I don't even know what that was. The difference between 14 and 15. D You know what I mean? So that's, I mean, I think it's important as a way like in the storytelling aspect. But yeah, I don't know necessarily. It's like those labels on routes necessarily need to be there.

00:58:35:11 - 00:58:49:19
Unknown
Yeah. I think that makes sense. It's it's like, I think focusing on the story and what that means in terms of getting people inspired and getting people to take action and participate in the community. I think that definitely makes a lot of sense.

00:58:49:19 - 00:59:04:18
Unknown
I won't say push back on that, but I guess something I'm wondering which is a little bit of a contradiction, it then is like how does that perspective come in relation to the full circle expedition of like this first black Everest expedition, if that makes sense.

00:59:04:18 - 00:59:17:02
Unknown
And like, sorry not to like, I hope we're not like pushing back too hard. I'm just really interested in all this and it seems like a very interesting conversation. So like how, how does that how does that perspective go in relation to the full circle expedition,

00:59:17:02 - 00:59:24:03
Unknown
Yeah, sure. I'm happy to talk about it. I mean, you know, is like, that's my personal climbing.

00:59:24:04 - 00:59:45:13
Unknown
Like that's what I'm out to do. That's what I'm psyched to do. I don't really care if there is media around it or not. Like I wasn't a sponsored athlete at the time or anything like that. The Everest expedition. I mean, there was a lot that went on with the Everest Expedition one. I mean, Everest costs a ridiculous amount of money to.

00:59:45:13 - 01:00:10:08
Unknown
I think that there was I mean, it was expensive. But also, like the guy who the main idea was Phil Henderson. And I mean, he you know, he's lived in my shoes for like being a part of the outdoor industry as a black person for like 30, 35 years. You know, I've I've not I've not even 35 years old, but so he's kind of lived that.

01:00:10:08 - 01:00:31:19
Unknown
And I think, you know, one who wanted to go to Everest, one we had to market going to Everest. And so at that time, I think from a marketing standpoint, I mean, I'm sorry, I don't know if you can hear my dog in the background. I mean, it wasn't a it wasn't even an all black ascent. I mean, we worked with Sherpas like it wasn't an all black ascent.

01:00:31:19 - 01:01:02:11
Unknown
We had Sherpas on our team. We had Sherpas that I actually taught at the climbing school in Fort, say, six months before the expedition. And then they worked with us there and helped it like we couldn't have some of the mountain without the Sherpas. But also so I would say a lot of it in terms of that was like marketing and also like this expedition, like Phil proposed this more because he had the goal of inspiring people to, to climb, to get outside to, to find, you know, something to inspire them.

01:01:02:11 - 01:01:35:14
Unknown
Because, I mean, when you look at the black and brown community, I think there is a I mean, we have, you know, lots of heart disease is a huge thing. I mean, there's a lot of sedentary folks. There's a lot of a lot of things and and a lot of, you know, black people ultimately, like this project was more was I would say I think it inspired the community as a whole, but it was more to inspire, like other people of color to like say like, hey, this is something that is okay because there is a big thing within the black community like, man climb and that's white people shit and that's a

01:01:35:14 - 01:01:55:11
Unknown
white person shitt you know what I mean? And it's not necessarily true it but that exposure right to say like hey look like there's a bunch of black people going in and climbing Everest like you know I used to I manage the email and Instagram for that for, you know, when you're getting off the ground and so many people are like, man, you got to try to climb Everest.

01:01:55:13 - 01:02:14:14
Unknown
I guess I could go like, you know, do a hike once a week or get out, even get outside once a week. Like people are sending these emails, like just really stoked to see this happen. So it that project I think was for a different purpose and it was something that I, I got invited to do and then eventually agreed to and became involved with.

01:02:14:14 - 01:02:36:14
Unknown
And I think Phil wanted to make sure that he had a, he had a team that was fit to climb the mountain. And honestly, like we look at our lack of representation and lack of black people doing these things. And I mean, Phil had been doing this stuff for 35 years and he the team was made up of any person that he met that he thought could potentially be successful on Everest.

01:02:36:16 - 01:02:48:07
Unknown
And to see that that that's like a very, very small group of people. Not to say that he's met every black person who climbs or has been in the outdoors ever. But from his experiences. Right. That's that's very small.

01:02:48:07 - 01:02:49:12
Unknown
yeah.

01:02:49:14 - 01:03:10:09
Unknown
No, I think that's that's a really great point where hopefully I'm not putting words in your mouth, but it's almost like with, like, the nose and moonlight. It's like those were like, I hate the term selfish, but, like, selfish personal endeavors, just like, for yourself. Whereas it seems like full circle is like, almost like the message of climbing was transcending to this community and like, the climb itself was

01:03:10:09 - 01:03:21:14
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah,

01:03:55:02 - 01:04:00:22
Unknown
yeah,

01:04:06:11 - 01:04:13:21
Unknown
yeah, yeah.

01:04:24:06 - 01:04:25:17
Unknown
did that did that bug you at all?

01:04:25:17 - 01:04:33:22
Unknown
Like being on the top and not having a view at all? Or were you It was just something like peaceful and serene about being in the darkness there, like on the top of the world?

01:04:33:22 - 01:04:45:14
Unknown
I mean, honestly it it didn't really, really bug me. I don't know. I just again, that we just talked about this ever since.

01:04:45:14 - 01:05:10:06
Unknown
More of like a community, a community project. Right. And like, honestly, as soon as we raised enough money, like actually book the flights and gotten and got to go to Nepal is like, man, okay, we made it. We're done. Like, that sounds really, really bad. And I'm not trying to diminish that. Yeah, to be honest, like for like I was, I was like up, you know, we were talking about being busy like that year.

01:05:10:08 - 01:05:39:07
Unknown
That year leading up to Everest was probably one of the hardest years of my life. I was every day like I would go to work, I would teach some afternoons I would coach, then I would get on my computer and like, you know, check emails, do this things, email, potential sponsors. Some days I'd have to do meet like the media was showing up to my school, like asking if they could interview me about X, Y, or Z for the the expedition and the I didn't sleep that year.

01:05:39:09 - 01:05:58:16
Unknown
And the worst part is I didn't really rock climb that that much that year. And the rock climbing thing I was really stoked about. So like that was a really tough year in terms of like, like it wasn't just like people paid us to go climb Everest. It was like we, I literally worked another fulltime job to raise money to for this to happen.

01:05:58:16 - 01:06:16:10
Unknown
And it was kind of like me and Phil did the brunt of the fundraising. And so we were, you know, like I said, planning meetings every day, like working on the pitch deck, talking to companies, talking about deliverable is there's a film project that's at some point going to come out and it you just like it's hard to not sleep and to not climb

01:06:16:10 - 01:06:21:19
Unknown
but yeah so I guess to go back to the original question like when we got there I was like, man, this is nice.

01:06:21:19 - 01:06:43:15
Unknown
I can just like, relax and like hike a little bit each day and yeah, like, I knew Everest is going to be hard, but like, that's like a challenge that, like, you're willingly putting yourself in a challenge to do those things. And I guess we were willing to do all the other things. But I mean, sitting on checking emails is just not fun when it comes down to it.

01:06:43:15 - 01:06:55:00
Unknown
Can I ask you one thing? What? Like, what in the future is inspiring you? Like what? What's next? You know, you seem very like, you know, goal oriented and stuff. And so, like, what? What? What's inspiring you?

01:06:55:00 - 01:07:11:22
Unknown
yeah, right now, I'm just. I'm really trying. I'm still working on balance and everything. Like what exactly we started, right? Like, how do you balance all of these things? And so started doing the training plan because I want to get I want to get stronger. Like, I've kind of I don't want to say plateaued because I've diversified what I've been good at, at climbing for the past couple of years.

01:07:11:22 - 01:07:35:18
Unknown
But, you know, I've been climbing in the same grade range for the past couple of years. And I kind of have I want to want to try to go after some bigger objectives this summer, which involved just being a little bit stronger. So I've been working on that this spring a lot, which has been a little bit less climbing outside, a little bit more hanging boarding, which I absolutely hate doing.

01:07:35:20 - 01:08:03:05
Unknown
And so like right now we're just working on summer plans, like, I'll go go to California for a lot of June and climb in Yosemite and just kind of get better at climbing on granite. And then the summer we're trying to figure out the most family baby friendly place to go, to go climbing in the summer. And then in the fall, I'm hoping to go out to the valley for a couple of weeks, not a couple of weeks, probably like ten days to climb.

01:08:03:07 - 01:08:44:07
Unknown
So, yeah, so I kind of just like, you know, structure the year around, like, okay, how can I have the most make the most out of my time off in the summer? Not, not really. Honestly, like, like working with Patagonia been they've been great. They've been super, super relaxed and they're like, as long as you just, you know, keep telling your story and, you know, there's a lot of other random things that we do kind of as ambassadors, but they've been really low pressure, which has been nice.

01:08:44:07 - 01:09:03:16
Unknown
But I guess for me personally, it's always like, you know, when I got into climbing, I always wanted, you know, climb the diamond, climb another out on the diamond every summer. I always I was really intrigued and trying out big mountains and I actually quick I mean, big mountains Everest came up, but I was really intrigued about like, you know, climbing big mountains.

01:09:03:16 - 01:09:27:16
Unknown
And so I was kind of always rotating between these like different genres and just different disciplines of climbing and and now I'm kind of back to that point where, I want to try to climb something harder again. So moonlight was like two years ago and I've you know what I mean? So it's just that's you guys are probably the same way with your climbing.

01:09:27:16 - 01:09:46:05
Unknown
where it's like I'm trying to do everything, you know? I'm trying to trail run, I'm trying to climb higher peaks, I'm trying to do high altitude, and then I'm trying to track you know, in Squamish, in the in the summer. It's like eventually, if you want to really progress at one, you've got to kind of like pick that one and like, stick with it.

01:09:46:05 - 01:09:47:15
Unknown
And that's been hard because there

01:09:48:06 - 01:09:54:16
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah.

01:09:54:16 - 01:10:11:18
Unknown
I think it all, it all like, kind of helps in a way, right? Like, like if you're running, then you can be out for really long days if you're. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like at all. At all helps piece together a little bit and I don't know I think it at least for me, like if I just folded like right now I'm just hanging more in.

01:10:11:20 - 01:10:16:03
Unknown
I'm, I'm I know I'm going to get burnt out from having bought in at some point.

01:10:16:03 - 01:10:19:05
Unknown
So,

01:10:19:12 - 01:10:28:19
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

01:10:28:19 - 01:10:34:08
Unknown
know you're super busy, and so we. We do really appreciate you coming on the show and having a chat with us. So thanks again.

01:10:34:14 - 01:10:40:15
Unknown
Yeah, no problem. Hopefully he got some good content or that people enjoy