55 | Achieving The Impossible..Climbing 5.14 On Gear w/ Mary Eden

Welcome to the last episode of 2023. Thank you so much for being a part of our growing community…It means a lot to Kyle and I that you are here.  As climbers we've all seen videos and media depicting near impossible feats of physicality. You've probably seen these videos and thought “I could never accomplish something so hard”. But are these limitations we put on ourselves real? While our guest today is not a part of the Majority….. she once was. As a young spirited climber she never believed she could accomplish climbing 5.12. Fast forward to the present day, Mary Eden is one of the most accomplished crack climbers in the word. She recently just sent Necronomicon 5.14a and Black Mamba 5.14b on gear… These kinds of feats leave me simply speechless and in awe.  But what stood out most in our conversation was not how amazingly accomplished of a climber Mary is. It was her empowering message that we all can break through the arbitrary limitations we put on ourselves to achieve great things we once thought impossible. I'll leave you with a quote from Mary.

"I know that Necronomicon is not the peak of my physical or mental potential even though it was a beautiful dream. My advice for others is to pour energy into the people and activities that bring you joy as much as you can. Build yourself a genuine community and support system. Set your goals, and work towards them with intention, while enjoying the scenery along the way. And remember that at the end of the day it is just rock climbing, and you should be having fun." -Mary Eden

Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.

Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

Resources:

Mary's IG

Mary's Youtube

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 3:36 No Longer The Majority
• 26:41 Mary's View on Risk
• 38:20 Necronomicon & Black Mamba

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:15
Unknown
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Collin I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers like discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:24:08 - 00:00:27:16
Unknown
Welcome back to the last episode of 2023.

00:00:27:16 - 00:00:30:07
Unknown
Thank you so much for being a part of our growing community.

00:00:30:07 - 00:00:32:18
Unknown
It means a lot to Kyle and I that you are here.

00:00:33:00 - 00:00:33:07
Unknown
As

00:00:33:07 - 00:00:38:01
Unknown
climbers, we've all seen videos in media depicting near impossible feats of physicality.

00:00:38:01 - 00:00:42:18
Unknown
You've probably seen these videos and thought I could never accomplish something so hard.

00:00:42:18 - 00:00:45:17
Unknown
But are these limitations we put on ourselves real?

00:00:46:01 - 00:00:50:10
Unknown
While our guest today is not a part of the majority she once was

00:00:50:10 - 00:00:55:04
Unknown
as a young spirited climber, she never believed that she could accomplish climbing. 512.

00:00:55:04 - 00:01:00:17
Unknown
Fast forward to present day. Mary Eden is one of the most accomplished crack climbers in the world.

00:01:00:17 - 00:01:08:19
Unknown
She recently just sent Necronomicon 514 A and black Mamba 514 be on gear.

00:01:08:19 - 00:01:12:11
Unknown
These kinds of feats leave me speechless and in awe.

00:01:12:11 - 00:01:18:00
Unknown
But what stood out most in our conversation was not how amazingly accomplished of a climber Mary is.

00:01:18:05 - 00:01:27:04
Unknown
It was her empowering message that we can all break through the arbitrary limitations we put on ourselves to achieve great things we once thought impossible.

00:01:27:04 - 00:01:29:23
Unknown
I'll leave you here with a quote from Mary.

00:01:30:01 - 00:01:44:04
Unknown
I know that Necronomicon is not the peak of my physical or mental potential, even though it was a beautiful dream. My advice for others is to pour energy into the people and activities that bring you joy as much as you can.

00:01:44:04 - 00:01:47:09
Unknown
Build yourself a genuine community and support system,

00:01:47:09 - 00:01:52:12
Unknown
set your goals and work towards them with intention while enjoying the scenery along the way.

00:01:52:15 - 00:02:01:22
Unknown
And remember that at the end of the day, it's just rock climbing and you should be having fun.

00:02:10:05 - 00:02:32:10
Unknown
All right, what is up, everybody? And welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast. We are here sitting down with Mary Eden, Rock climber extraordinaire. Mary, how's it going? It's going good. Sorry, I just dropped my mike. The OR is. Yeah, like right off the bat, just like my flies out. That is all good. All part of the process.

00:02:32:12 - 00:02:52:08
Unknown
Yeah, well, you know, we're really stoked to have you here, and we're super happy we got you on the show. And, yeah, I'm pretty excited to have a conversation here. How's it going? I'm super happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. Yeah, I like how professional your guys's setup is. Thanks. It's been a long journey. It was.

00:02:52:08 - 00:03:15:08
Unknown
Didn't start like this. It's nice. Thank you. Yeah. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate the feedback as well. Okay, So I think to get us rolling here, I have I have a quotation from an article that you are in. So and just before that, I'll preface this with saying to everybody in the audience, if you want to know a little bit more about like Mary and her earlier history, there's so many articles.

00:03:15:08 - 00:03:37:04
Unknown
We'll give links. We're going to give her phenomenal introduction to the show as well, too. But there's a lot of resources out there to go get her story and she has an amazing YouTube channel as well, to which we'll also linked to. But I think to start this conversation off this this quote that Kyle and I found here, which I think is perfectly setting the tone for us, I'll just read it here.

00:03:37:04 - 00:04:05:11
Unknown
It says, I climb that hard sounded absurd. And those campfire conversations were filled with honor and reverence. I couldn't even conceive of what a 514 crack would entail, let alone believe I'd ever be capable of climbing the great. And so I feel like, you know, we're the climbing majority podcast. I think of you sitting around that campfire. I would say at that part, you're a part of the climbing majority.

00:04:05:12 - 00:04:37:18
Unknown
You know, this this large group of climbers who have maybe goals that aren't quite as prestigious as climbing. 514 But these goals or these thoughts in their mind that they're never going to be able to do that, you know, it's something outlandish to them. And I'm wondering if you could kind of like explain to us like, what was your mindset at the time there and when did you really start like conceiving that you actually could be a 514 crack climber?

00:04:37:20 - 00:05:08:16
Unknown
Both I don't think I believe that I could be a four or 514 crack climber until after I climbed a54. Okay. And honestly, maybe it was like the second 514 crack I was I climb that. I was like, it's it's it's a hard it's a hard thing because I feel like I don't feel like climbing came naturally to me at all.

00:05:08:18 - 00:05:37:06
Unknown
If you looked at the way I climbed for many years, you never would have thought that I would be climbing hard quotation marks. I just wasn't very good at it. But I climbed all the time and I climbed a lot and I loved it, but I just sucked. And so for me, you know, climbing that grade seemed impossible and the people who were around me also would have agreed out of love.

00:05:37:06 - 00:05:47:00
Unknown
Right? Like, but I feel like it's something that like not to be mean, but just like, yeah, no, probably not.

00:05:47:02 - 00:06:13:08
Unknown
But I do feel like I do feel like we limit ourselves in a lot of the things that we do as people, as human beings. Like, you know, I might not be the best rock climber, but I do have my own superpower, which is just like a work work ethic. And so, like, I just know how to work really freaking hard.

00:06:13:10 - 00:06:42:18
Unknown
And so that goes into climbing like higher grades, like, my movement might suck or I might not be very naturally gifted or X, Y, Z. I started climbing when I was 21, but I know how to work really hard. And so I'm able to apply that superpower and get to unreachable goals. And I think that more people are able to do these unreachable goals than they think because they have their own superpower.

00:06:42:23 - 00:07:02:06
Unknown
They might have like natural movement or they might have a really good work work ethic or they might be really good problem solvers. But I feel like we tend to just say, no, that's not for me. I'll never be that good. And then we don't even try. We don't even put that effort in to see what could happen, right?

00:07:02:09 - 00:07:37:10
Unknown
So I don't know. For me, I just got lucky and I wanted to see if it was possible. Yeah. So I think like, if I could just add to that, it's like, okay, I really, really strongly associate with what you just said and I don't have a belief even remotely in myself to climb. 514 It's like my goal is I want to climb 512 on gear and build a on site, maybe like low elevens to go out and be able to just run like classic multi pitches.

00:07:37:10 - 00:07:58:13
Unknown
Like, that's my that's my climbing, my rock climbing goal. Like, I'm not a naturally gifted rock climber. I have this kind of negative mindset about myself I totally resonate with like having all these psychological barriers that I can even rationalize Probably aren't true, but on some level I feel like there's no way I can break through this, you know?

00:07:58:13 - 00:08:22:12
Unknown
And I think that's that's such an interesting thing to take from someone who has climbed something so phenomenal, so amazing, and to be like, I never thought like, I would do that, you know, to put yourself kind of almost in the position of what a lot of people think. And yeah, I just really strongly resonate with that. I think it's a really, really empowering message.

00:08:22:14 - 00:08:44:17
Unknown
I'm wondering in relation in regards to your mentality, have you kind of always felt like you had this internal locus of control where you can just if you put your mind to it, you're going to make it happen? Or do you think that's something you've kind of cultivated through this process Before? I answer that at one point, Climbing Phi 12 was a lifelong goal for me on gear.

00:08:44:23 - 00:09:13:15
Unknown
Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that was something I thought would never happen and it was a lifelong goal. So did 512 happen by happenstance or like, No, I worked really hard for it. So. So I guess why? Like, if you didn't think you could do it? Like what? Where was the motivation there? I think the motivation was because I didn't think I could do it.

00:09:13:17 - 00:09:34:15
Unknown
You know, it was like, Ooh, that is going to be like an impossible thing. I don't think I could do it. But wouldn't it be cool if I tried and gave it my best shot and gave it everything I had? And then I did it and I was like, Well, okay, how about another? How about another? How about another?

00:09:34:17 - 00:09:59:12
Unknown
How about another? And then I was like, you know, it would be a really good lifelong goal. 513 But then I did that and I was like, How about another? How about another? And then I was like, You know what would be a really cool, lifelong goal, you know? And so it's just like it is like building blocks of like, ooh, this, this won't happen.

00:09:59:14 - 00:10:18:01
Unknown
But then you work for it and it does. And then you're like, well, that will definitely won't happen. And then you work for it and it does. And then you're like, you keep upping the ante. But even from the start of like five, 12 being this lifelong goal for me, like I thought I would never climb that great in my climbing career.

00:10:18:03 - 00:10:51:21
Unknown
There was like, if, if I said I was going to climb a 14, I would have thought that was a joke. I would have thought that was a joke. The mindset of pursuing things that I believe impossible, or just like knowing how to work towards things. I think that's just inherently part of my personality. I've always been like, I've always been pretty tenacious, and that was something that really annoyed my older sibling when we were kids.

00:10:51:23 - 00:11:20:18
Unknown
So I don't know. I think that's just part of my personality and maybe it's been ratified and reinforced because like I've found that it works or that it gives me what I want. And I joke, I say, I can nag really well, like I can nag. I'll just like that. Yeah. Or myself and others. Yeah. Do you, do you find I mean, I guess I can answer this question for you.

00:11:20:18 - 00:11:41:21
Unknown
You know, you are a very accomplished person, even outside climbing. So I guess like my list of question to this is like, do you find that that part of your mentality and your drive was cultivated more by climbing or is it equal spread throughout your entire life and everything that you do? It's equal. Honestly. It's really it's really weird.

00:11:41:21 - 00:12:11:22
Unknown
I remember my earliest goal as a human being that I can remember was I was a kid and I wanted to own every Barbie in the world. And I wanted and I wanted to be the best artist in the world. They were simultaneous. I was like, What? Both of these things. And so I was just obsessed with art and also just hoarding, hoarding Barbies.

00:12:12:00 - 00:12:38:21
Unknown
And no, my parents, my parents did not love me, have more than a normal amount of art used to make her dream dream cut short dreams. Yeah, sure. There's like, wow. Yeah. No, I mean, I think to me that makes sense of having kind of that like psychology paralleling in a lot of ways in life of like being tenacious and driven and, you know, wanting something.

00:12:38:21 - 00:13:05:23
Unknown
And especially like at a young age, like you could view that as like, like a benign, like childhood thing. But to me, like I see more this aspect of, of I'm trying to think big, you know, dreaming big, thinking big, like having these goals. And so I'm, I'm really interested in regards to your, you know, obviously these progression these steps which are I think I could, you know, five, 12, five, 13, five, 14 I'm sure you can correct me if I'm wrong.

00:13:05:23 - 00:13:29:22
Unknown
There's more things in there. But what was your goal setting like for those those kind of steps like I guess how do you set goals? What was the goal setting like and did it change from the five, 12, the five, 13, the 514 process? It did. I think I learned how to be a lot kinder to myself in that process.

00:13:30:00 - 00:13:57:13
Unknown
I think when you initially set goals, they're very hard, very hard and work really hard. You have to change a lot of things about the way you move and how you take care of your body and X, Y and Z, but they are a bit easier to accomplish than other ones just by like the nature of what it is in the climbing scale.

00:13:57:15 - 00:14:17:20
Unknown
The climbing grade scale reflects that like five six is an easier grade for people to work up to than 511. Right? It takes people a lot longer, usually to get their first 511 before their first five six, even though they work really hard for that one. And it's just as legitimate. It it just takes more work to get to those next steps.

00:14:18:00 - 00:14:45:16
Unknown
Right. And I think doing my first 12, it took me a lot of work and and things, but there is a lot of things I got away with, too, that I didn't even know I was getting away with. Like maybe not sleeping well enough, maybe not eating right, you know, maybe climbing in not optimal temperatures, things like that.

00:14:45:16 - 00:15:06:10
Unknown
And also maybe having too busy of a schedule. And but I was able to kind of do some things that allowed me to accomplish the goal. Like I did a training plan for the first time. I slept in a row. I did it more than a few times. I, you know, was smart about the way I place gear and things like that.

00:15:06:12 - 00:15:27:00
Unknown
But it wasn't like I had to be this last project I had where I had to pay attention to. Okay, I want it to be under 65 degrees Fahrenheit. I need it to be during this time of my cycle. I need to make sure I don't have these things going on. I need to make sure I eat starch 30 minutes before doing it.

00:15:27:01 - 00:15:56:01
Unknown
There was like so much more preparation into accomplishing it and I my margin for error was like smaller. And also I'm less attached to timelines because when I was doing my first by 12, I was very attached to the timeline. I would say my first, like when I did Necronomicon, I was really attached to this idea of doing a 14 on gear before I turned 30.

00:15:56:03 - 00:16:22:13
Unknown
And when I turned 30 and hadn't done that, I was very sad. I pouted. Well, my really, my birthday. And I shouldn't have doubted. I think what I, what I've learned to do is to give myself more grace and not put a time limit on goals at all and to try to set myself up for success as much as I can.

00:16:22:15 - 00:16:50:09
Unknown
And yeah, and just just trying to be more strategic, I guess. I think it's it's interesting you bring up, you know, when someone says like you're a five, 12 climber or whatever, most people think immediately of like, okay, they climb 512, whether that be five of them or one of them, you know. But I think what you're alluding to here is that there's so much more to it in terms of who what that grade requires you to be.

00:16:50:12 - 00:17:10:11
Unknown
It's not just, you can climb the grade. It's like like you said, I need to have specific sleeping schedules. I need to have a specific diet. Like there's so many other things that this climb requires of you. And I think that's really important to to dissect, because I like I always in the beginning of this podcast, I always talked about like reaching like a climbing plateau.

00:17:10:11 - 00:17:39:00
Unknown
You know, you start climbing, you learn the technique, you get used to the risk, and then you get to this point where your lifestyle and your training volume and your risk tolerance depict how hard you can climb and at that point, it's people hit a plateau because they're unwilling to change who they are or their life to adapt to what the climb requires of them or or they're not willing to fail.

00:17:39:02 - 00:18:03:14
Unknown
Okay, Not willing. So sometimes. So sometimes in order to improve, you need to fail a lot. I spend most of my year failing and like you'll see on social media, you're like, this person's succeeding. But it's like, well, you didn't see like the 50 times I top rope that thing and hung on the rope and asked for a birthday ballet for my significant other.

00:18:03:16 - 00:18:33:09
Unknown
Like I get like, you just have to be willing to go out there and fail and pull on gear or go and climb a genres climbing that you suck at or don't enjoy. Like I like all forms of rock climbing, but I don't like them equally. I have favorite books, you know, I love bouldering, I love track climbing, I love adventure climbing.

00:18:33:11 - 00:18:59:01
Unknown
I, I kinda like sport climbing. I don't know why. I just don't care as much. I like it. I go, I'll go on. I'll plans for climbing tours, but it's like I call sport climbing, eating my vegetables. I usually I do it turned out to be good at tried climbing. Yeah which is so messed up. Honestly. The a way to think.

00:18:59:03 - 00:19:21:21
Unknown
So you like it? I think that that was kind of what it was designed for, right? In a way. Like bouldering trains you for harder sport climbing and sport climbing trains. You ever tried climbing and tried climbing on the ground is training for try climbing in the mountains? Yeah. Pretty much the natural progression of like how to get out to more fun things.

00:19:21:22 - 00:19:50:04
Unknown
I think that's the thing that I see a lot from people is just like an unwillingness to fail. Like they just want to succeed. I feel like trying to really push yourself in rock climbing is is like sticks, sticks, sticks, sticks, stick, carrot stick. Six, six, six, six, six stick carrot stick, carrot sticks, sticks in your eye. It's like it's mostly getting hit with a stick and failing.

00:19:50:05 - 00:20:25:22
Unknown
And then every once in a while you get a, like, tasty carrot. You're like, you know? And I try to change the way I think about failure. Actually, I seek it out. I like failing you, and I call it that because that's what people view it as. But I just I like to fail with like, curiosity, you know, like, I like to be curious about why that didn't feel easy or why I don't understand that move or why I didn't do so well that day.

00:20:26:00 - 00:20:46:21
Unknown
And so having just like this sense of curiosity about, like movement and rock climbing and styles that don't feel good or things that just feel hard and you're just like, I'm just going to go have a look. I just want to see how that feels. I think maybe if I did this instead of just being like, Yo, I'm a very short person.

00:20:46:23 - 00:21:01:19
Unknown
So when I go to the gym, like, they're usually set for tall people. And I'm like, instead of just being like, I'm not going to get on that rock or I'm not going to get on that that route because it's set for tall people. I'm like, I'm just going to see if I can like figure it out.

00:21:01:21 - 00:21:26:23
Unknown
I'm just going to go see if I can jump like, you know, I'm not good at jumping, I'm horrible at it. But I'll try it 20 times. I'll be like, that was fun, you know, and then go do something easier. What? You're kind of like expressing here, which I really just fundamentally agree with, is like, failure is a stimulus for growth, essentially.

00:21:27:04 - 00:21:58:14
Unknown
And, you know, for myself, like what I've experienced through climbing, you know, I, I recognize in myself like I have a problem with like failing publicly. I think that stems from certain experiences. I had much younger in school and various other ways. And it's just like kind of this almost egotistical thing of not wanting to feel vulnerable in front of other people, not being willing to take the chance.

00:21:58:16 - 00:22:22:08
Unknown
And and that really just hinders your progress. And something that I love so much about climbing is it forces me into those situation where I have to accept like, I'm probably going to fail here, but I'm going to be vulnerable and I have to do it. And through that I kind of grow and it's just like this really, really fascinating thing and I'm not good at it.

00:22:22:08 - 00:22:46:01
Unknown
I don't try hard enough things. I'm too absorbed in concern. Sometimes it's like, there's the Craig's busy, everybody's looking, I'll try this easier climb or things. And like, I recognize that in myself. It's like, okay, that's, that's bullshit. Like, fuck that. I need to, I need to, like, expand my comfort zone and try those things more like, you know, those people don't actually care if I fail.

00:22:46:01 - 00:23:15:17
Unknown
They're not going to make fun of me. Like, that's, that's all. Like your internal dialog in something that's going on in your head and it's something that you're struggling with as an individual. Like you need to like at least for me, that's the way I view it, is like I need to like push through that and like work through that to like, develop myself, of course, as a climber, but as an individual, like that's what I really experience with climbing through the experience of climbing is that I develop myself as an individual and I feel fulfilled as an individual.

00:23:15:17 - 00:23:49:14
Unknown
And I think it's because of that like that, whether it's a willingness to fail or just how hard you're willing to try and challenge yourself, it just like develops you as a person and not just like as a climber, like as a person. Does that make sense now than anybody I do. I do. But I will. You know, one thing I've learned in pushing myself is also to be gentle with yourself and like what you kind of described a bit is a little bit seems like of social anxiety.

00:23:49:14 - 00:24:17:06
Unknown
I don't want to yeah, I don't want to like presume, but that's kind of what it sounds like. And and I totally feel that I feel that way too. I don't climb as well in front of certain energies of people, and it could be like it. Honestly, any time I feel like any time I feel like competitive energy with me, I don't climb well and I don't enjoy climbing.

00:24:17:06 - 00:24:44:12
Unknown
I don't climb to compete. I never played ball sports, so it's like I'm I'm here to have fun. Like I don't like this energy that's here. I also don't like being watched super much. Like that gives me anxiety, right? And if I'm putting myself in this learning space, if I'm putting myself in this like failure, like curiosity, space, those things could be distracting and like, impact my learning.

00:24:44:14 - 00:25:02:18
Unknown
And so I might adjust, like if those things are present. So I might adjust what I'm doing that day. Like I might just top rope instead. I might just like, you know, suss out the beta. Instead I might just like, give it a dirty lead instead and just like, make it very clear, I'm just giving this a dirty lead.

00:25:02:20 - 00:25:40:08
Unknown
A dirty lead is like you just go in and you take a bunch or, you know, I might just do my objective, but just adjust it for my surroundings in order to not basically create this like anxiety thing, you know? So like also, you know, making sure you have like the right climbing partners with you, you know, it's you have really good time climbing with certain people and they make you feel good and they make you feel calm like seek out those people for your really like, vulnerable growth sessions, Right.

00:25:40:10 - 00:26:02:15
Unknown
You know, so like that goes into setting yourself up for success. I think, you know, for those goal achievements or goal like pursuing, you know, the the funny thing I'm sitting here as the complete polar opposite to you guys. I climb better with an audience, and the more people watching, I'm more inspired to climb better. And I don't know, I just enjoy it for some.

00:26:02:15 - 00:26:25:22
Unknown
Where's it from for some reason? So for me, failure, for me, failure is not like, someone watched me fall. It's failure to me, especially now, is I fell and I'm injured or, you know, I ripped a piece or whatever. Like, to me, failure is like I've injured myself. And so I want to steer this conversation, at least for a short bit, towards risk.

00:26:26:00 - 00:26:46:10
Unknown
You know, maybe it's just an experience, but I do believe there is a way to climb tread safely, obviously, But there is an inherent risk you know, more than sport climbing, I guess. Talked to us a little bit about like your your relationship with trad gear. Like, have you had any close calls? Have you had any pieces pull on you?

00:26:46:10 - 00:27:12:13
Unknown
You know, I'm interested in your interpretation of it with, you know, since you're someone who has so much time and so much experience placing gear, especially in a medium that's known to kind of like sometimes have, you know, cams, rip and stuff. So, you know, I don't know if I'm the best person for this because I feel super solid and happy with the risk thing on trad gear, even when it's like monster chops.

00:27:12:14 - 00:27:47:16
Unknown
I prefer that having just gear and having that control. Honestly, I, I, I like, I would rather do a five day course pitch than a run out vertical sport climb that was bolted by someone who's six four. You know, I would rather place willingly place less on nightmare chores than that I would trying to follow someone else's building.

00:27:47:18 - 00:28:11:10
Unknown
I think I prefer having control, even if the line itself is more fucked up. Yeah, I think that's just like a preference thing. How much do you think that your size compared to. You know, Max and I were to 15 to 20 with a full rack. You know, the weight plays a little bit of a factor there. yeah.

00:28:11:14 - 00:28:49:05
Unknown
Your experience climbing with the white boys or like, you know, larger climbers, do they see, you know, the relationship with risk and tread gear differently than, you know, their way? I'm way more like risk averse than they are. Yeah. No. Okay. Yeah. Like I've done the climbing on core short ropes, going to fly. like online. You know, I am on the twin row, but one of the single, like, standards of English gritstone.

00:28:49:05 - 00:29:07:09
Unknown
At least the videos I see on YouTube, I'm not sure. I'm like watching Dave McCleod. He's like, I put this fluffy hook here with like a runner on it, you know? It's just like, What is going on here, man? Like, there's like, No, this a blank wall and you're like, whipping on a beefy hog. This is not like, this is not climbing.

00:29:07:09 - 00:29:37:09
Unknown
I'm familiar with, like between that in the Czech Republic with rope balls, like, Count me out, man. And just for a different group of people, like, yeah, tall, endearingly casual, I, I'm pretty risk adverse. I like to have control. I, I don't mind taking risks, but I usually am like, warmed up to it. I definitely have done some sketchy things, but I am one of the more see for people.

00:29:37:14 - 00:30:03:06
Unknown
I would say yeah I don't think I, I don't think I'm a bold climber at all. I like hard things that don't break any bones of mine. Like, I don't really like, like, you know, are extra routes. I'm just like, e it's not that I don't like the route. It's just like I start thinking about all my health insurance is really bad.

00:30:03:08 - 00:30:27:03
Unknown
I'm, I'm older. I'm going to probably heal from a broken ankle for over a year. It's going to be really expensive, you know? So I tend to like hard climbs that are not, you know, you're going to break your legs if you mess this up. So I don't really get off on that. I'm like, I don't I really don't want to break my legs on 510.

00:30:27:05 - 00:30:48:17
Unknown
I really don't want to do that. If I do it, it should be like worth it or something. And like something else, you like. I might break my legs for all the Barbies in the world. Not for me, maybe, but not. I would even say I'm becoming, like, more risk averse. The older I get. I would see it used to be sketchier than I am now.

00:30:48:17 - 00:31:16:17
Unknown
Like I used to love chores, like I used to see go like desert chores and, you know, all that stuff. And it's not bother me, but I don't know, I just last few years I've just been more and more messed up every time I climb a really fucked up, chased bitch. I'm like, Who? And I sisters laugh. I used to laugh maniacally sending out blocks like I.

00:31:16:21 - 00:31:42:09
Unknown
I don't know what happened. I got older. Their wisdom. Yeah, yeah. You know, Max and I learned the lesson the hard way. Yeah, yeah, Definitely learned that lesson the hard way. I think it's an interesting thing, though, because there's like, two sides to that coin. Like on one side when I see these amazing accomplishments of climbers are climbing, taking really, really high risk, of course, there's something mystifying going and amazing about it.

00:31:42:10 - 00:32:02:12
Unknown
But on the other side, it's kind of it's kind of odd that it's almost like in like maybe I'm projecting, but I feel like a lot of people in the community feel pressured that like, yeah, they should toughen up and be hard and like, take on the risk and run something out and climb something. And it's like a symbol of your strength and your grit.

00:32:02:17 - 00:32:31:14
Unknown
And like in part, I agree with it. I'm very impressed by individuals who do that. I am not deterring that. But I just also slightly question on a lot of levels, like there's probably just so many people out there that that is just the wrong thing to do. And we're kind of in a different age now where, you know, in the bygone era, those people doing that only the really like entrenched people in the community knew about it or even understood it or this.

00:32:31:18 - 00:33:01:14
Unknown
Whereas now you just it's ubiquitous. You just see this video on YouTube everywhere and you're like, That's how I should be climbing. Or Yeah, more risk is better. And it's like, no, like it's not like this is for very, very particular people and you can also just lose so much in a ten minute YouTube video of like how much time and energy and experience that person had to go through in suffering to get to a position where doing that was actually a feasible, reasonable thing within their limits.

00:33:01:16 - 00:33:28:14
Unknown
And that can get really like lost in some of this I find. And so yeah, I don't know. I'm both mystified and motivated and inspired by individuals like that. And then I'm also critical in some ways that like we should really be very cautious in the community that like this is maybe not the greatest message for the majority of people to be to be expressed to that like climbing should be about something like that, if that makes sense.

00:33:28:16 - 00:34:15:04
Unknown
I don't think climbing should be about anything in particular. I think it should be about what it is for the individual that does it. And if the individual that chooses to rock climb is into risk, then go for it. Now, if they're like me and you like lower income and afraid of healing for a long period of time and wants to try really hard and do really cool things, you'll take like a balance between to a certain amount of risk for a certain amount of reward, you know, like there will be things about certain routes that are just a risk and it's like, I will evaluate that, evaluate the and see if I can mitigate

00:34:15:04 - 00:34:51:22
Unknown
the risk by either working that move to death or maybe that move or that section suits my style, or maybe I have a lot of experience on that kind of thing. So I'm comfortable with that amount of risk in that way. Or maybe, you know, my Blair is briefed and we have come up with like a plan to try to like, like what if I fuck this up or maybe I just hike more gear in and put a bouldering pad like Necronomicon I decked topping out like that is like, weird.

00:34:52:04 - 00:35:17:16
Unknown
You start on the ground and on the ground it's like a rainbow. And I decked on one of my working burns on it and it was like, totally unexpected and, you know, like my butt. Blair did nothing wrong. It was just like I ran it out too close to the ground and hit the ground. And so I was like, well, I could slip there again.

00:35:17:20 - 00:35:45:07
Unknown
It's like I hit the ground because I couldn't really clip the can. That could happen again. How can I not hit the ground but could also tire out there again? Okay. I hiked out of bouldering pad, put it at that spot, and I was like, well, if I hit the ground, I'd want to hit it softly. So I feel like, you know, if there is something that might happen, it might just happen.

00:35:45:11 - 00:36:13:23
Unknown
But try to solve it with some thinking, you know, like, oops, maybe if that's takes a lot of micro gear in the Rockies off, maybe place a lot, maybe place a bouldering pad at the ground, maybe, you know, have a blare that's really good at playing that kind of thing. You know, like maybe wear a helmet if you're going to do something risky, right?

00:36:14:01 - 00:36:39:09
Unknown
Maybe. Me Have you had any moments that have questioned your understanding or trust your own ability to place trad gear? No. No. Yeah. I learned how to place tread gear immediately. That's what I started doing right away. And it was never explained to me. No one taught me how to place it. It was just something that made sense to me.

00:36:39:11 - 00:37:09:22
Unknown
And I. I actually had the girl who was blaming me in that journey because I was learning from a book that I skimmed. I didn't even really read it that much was How to Rock Climb by John Long. And I was mostly reading like the anchors, but I got a hold of like an old used set of friends, like rigid some friends, and was bribing this 15 year old girl with ice cream to blame me.

00:37:09:22 - 00:37:33:14
Unknown
And she hated rock climbing. But she said a friend of a friend said that this girl knew how to belay, but then so there I entered the chat and I was like, I will buy you ice cream. And so I was out there eating, teaching myself, and I was like, I started eating up cracks before I knew what eating was and I was, Wow, there's chains up there.

00:37:33:14 - 00:37:53:13
Unknown
And I'm like, I know the rope. She goes through the chains, but if I pull this trigger and I obviously you pull on it and I yeah, it just made sense to me. Not everything in climbing made sense to me. The the movement didn't make sense to me. How to rock climbed it makes sense to me by like the gear.

00:37:53:15 - 00:38:27:15
Unknown
The gear made sense to me also alluring Belair's with ice cream? Yes. Good move all summer. And that's not very effective in the winter, though. No. Yeah. thank it. Marcel, if you're listening to this, Thank you. Yeah, well, I think. I think this is the like, this is a good segway. I think so. You know, for, for people who are listening, you can go look up Necronomicon.

00:38:27:17 - 00:38:47:08
Unknown
It's quite an unbelievable thing that are going on right now. Comic-Con. Necronomicon. Sorry, did I say Necro? No. Hard to say it. It's hard. Say, my God, I'm so bad at pronouncing things. We just put a sound bite where I pronounce like a South American volcano is El Salado. I think this is just, like, getting worse. I'm so sorry.

00:38:47:10 - 00:39:06:18
Unknown
But it's also kind of areas I, I No, you're terrible at it. No, no, we're going to be using. I love, but. Yeah, yeah, it's great. Keep going. Maintain composure. But, you know, it's really just this unbelievable climb. I think you can correct me if I'm wrong. Like you described it, a rainbow. It's a 100 foot roof crack.

00:39:06:18 - 00:39:31:08
Unknown
It has like a run out segment of, you know, .75 in the middle. This is literally like an unbelievable, you know, climb slash project. And, you know, we've kind of talked about your progression and your evolution of goals in yourself as a climber. When did you really set eyes on that climb in a meaningful way, as if I am going to climb this?

00:39:31:08 - 00:39:39:02
Unknown
And what was that process like for you? Like, was it a year of straight climbing? Was it five years? Like, what was that like for you? Mary

00:39:40:19 - 00:39:46:08
Unknown
If you've been enjoying the climbing majority, please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:39:46:08 - 00:40:08:17
Unknown
Actually, I set my sights on Necronomicon because of Tom Randall. He told me that it was time for me to do my first 14, and I was like, That's not real. I don't know about that.

00:40:08:19 - 00:40:32:18
Unknown
But he was like, You, you need to do it. You should go check out this route and, you know, he was like, I think it suits your background of, you know, just really being a crack climber, desert climber. And I think he just really wanted me to get stoked on the white Rim, to be honest. So I took his advice and I checked it out all of 2020.

00:40:32:20 - 00:41:04:05
Unknown
And yeah, I didn't know where it was, so I just kind of like took took, took vague directions from Tong who had kind of forgotten and wandered and eventually I was just standing on this like split in the white room and I was like, this is interesting. Is this like a roof crack? And like, I scrambled around and down and I just saw Necronomicon and it is the coolest looking thing.

00:41:04:05 - 00:41:30:09
Unknown
And I, like, looked out and I was like, Holy crap, that was really intimidating. And there is this, like, herd of bighorn sheep at the base of the start, and they're just chillin. And I was like, my God, the vista, the roll, the sheep, And just like the complete ridiculousness of, like running around on the rim being, like, insincere, insincere.

00:41:31:08 - 00:41:53:06
Unknown
like it's just like the whole day was just really magical, and I really connected with that root then, and I was like, I want to do that. That's a dream line. Like, that's this is why I've been climbing in the desert for the last like, you know, all of my twenties. Like, this is why this route and I like really attached to that route.

00:41:53:08 - 00:42:26:03
Unknown
And I tried climbing it a couple of times, but I didn't really ask anybody to really pay attention. So I was actually climbing it backwards from the wrong end until I posted a picture. And Rob Pismo was like, You're climbing it the wrong way, but I was like, this. I tried to come back a year later after like training and completely got shut down because, yeah, like what I was saying earlier about setting yourself up for success, I didn't.

00:42:26:03 - 00:42:49:04
Unknown
I chose to buy the permits for August because the route closes for most of the year for lambing. Yeah, August 1st in the white Room. I thought it would be fine because caves, you know, it's cool to the key and it'll be fine to the shade. No, it was awful. We bailed. Was in one day. Yeah, I had.

00:42:49:04 - 00:43:10:00
Unknown
He blisters on my hands from like kind. Will they have the. My friend Ben. Rick was going to project it with me and he was like, Hey, I don't want to kill your dreams. But. And I was like, It's too freaking hot, okay? And I was like, I did it. And you're like, Okay. I thought, this is going to be a lot harder of a conversation.

00:43:10:02 - 00:43:34:05
Unknown
Was like, I get it. And so we like, Yeah, we wrapped it and hiked out and I came back last fall and the right time of year to do it and did it and it was really cool. It. Yeah. Sorry. I was like, that was antique. It was so casual and I just said, I did and it's okay.

00:43:34:07 - 00:44:01:13
Unknown
Know I've worked in the cave or whatever. No biggie. Yeah, I definitely like to tease out a few, a few things out of that is like, So when did you stop being self coached and when, when did you start? Like working with I believe you work with Lotus, correct me if I'm wrong, and and what was that kind of like training like for this route?

00:44:01:15 - 00:44:27:19
Unknown
So I originally started training because I back when I wanted to do my first 512, that was right around when I met Pete and Tom. They needed a place to stay. So we had mutual friends and they crashed at my house for maybe a month or two. I can't remember. I was expecting like two days, like, just like Pete's like waking up in his bathrobe, like eating cereal.

00:44:27:21 - 00:44:51:07
Unknown
Yeah. So that and right around that time, I started to get this idea that, like, I was tired of being, you know, five, 11 person. I was like, I lived in five club and I could do 511 all day long. And I was tired of that. I wanted to like, do that thing that I can never do. Like if I was like, it would be so cool to do one.

00:44:51:07 - 00:45:18:22
Unknown
Like, why not? I just never trained. I learned how to climb outside. I was not a gym climber. There wasn't one in Moab. And so, like, the idea of like training for climbing was foreign to me. But around that time I was like, why not train? Like I could probably get stronger and that might help me do a 512 book.

00:45:19:00 - 00:45:44:01
Unknown
And so I just started doing like random exercises and my best friend Mercedes, and I went down to the wire him to take some pictures of Tom and Pete for them. And I was like, Ooh, perfect opportunity to do one of my exercises. So I started doing like jumping jacks on the rim. And Tom owns Lattice and he's like a been a coach.

00:45:44:01 - 00:46:20:05
Unknown
And like, he saw just doing these, like, really like chaotic jumping jacks. It was like what to do? And I was like, I'm training with you. Training for I was like, I'm going to do a 512. And he was like, okay, okay. You know, he didn't really say anything that day. But then when we came back out of the room, he he gave me a little spreadsheet that he made of a training plan for general fitness and not, not if we're like you, if I 12 but just in general General Foundation.

00:46:20:07 - 00:46:50:03
Unknown
How many jump? And I did it. Yeah, exactly. Zero. And do 1000 jumping jacks every morning. Just talk to you don't even like laughing. So yeah, you don't need to do that. You're on a great start. And it was funny because I only did I did the whole plan, but I but it was halfway along the plan that I did my first 12 and by the, by the end of that plan, I had done my first V six as well.

00:46:50:03 - 00:47:15:16
Unknown
And like, it really made a difference that general fitness and I just, I just kind of like Tom just weaseled me into lettuce. He just dumped me on one of his coaches and I, I, I just try to be like, I'm going to train for this. Just give me something and I'll do it. I don't I don't harass them too much.

00:47:15:18 - 00:47:57:05
Unknown
I just like, I'm going to do this thing. I think I'm officially on their team now. Yeah. No, that that's that's really amazing. It's it's really interesting, you know, to see that kind of progression, that evolution, to be working like that and then going for this goal. I'm wondering like for considerations for like a climbing rack. Do you find because you were talking yourself saying that you're more risk averse, like, for example, of you're climbing with Pete and Tom if you're doing the same route, if that's been happening, did you find you're comfortable at the same rack they are using or do you need to use more?

00:47:57:06 - 00:48:20:04
Unknown
No, no, I usually use more pieces one, just because I'm shorter. And so like if I'm placing every body length, it's going to be like every five feet. And they're much taller than me, so they place more. Also, we just have different we're different sizes. And so some some sizes are more comfortable for me to run out versus them.

00:48:20:04 - 00:48:47:21
Unknown
And so like the rack will be a little bit different, but maybe not too much. You know, I have I have felt more confident than Tom on some things, but then, you know, he'll do things that are way more bold and you will go free soloing and I don't. So it's just like it just depends, I think, on like where people are at and what they've been doing, you know, like in what their background is.

00:48:47:21 - 00:49:13:04
Unknown
And I think like, Pete's a monster. Like, I could not even not even touch like, what what Pete is comfortable or does like. Yeah, well, what are some of the logistics for this climb like if you fall off in the middle, you know it's a super comfy comfy. Well, okay, the fall danger is great because you're you're in a roof, Right.

00:49:13:06 - 00:49:38:06
Unknown
But in terms of like getting back on the crack or starting over again or retrieving gear, it seems like a little bit of a it's annoying nightmare. Yeah, it's super, super annoying. So Necronomicon, you have to back aid everything you know, between burns. So if you like, I left the gear in to pinpoint to like practice. But then after you feel ready or if you leave the room, you have to take all that out.

00:49:38:06 - 00:49:58:11
Unknown
And it would take me like an hour ish to maybe a little under an hour to back aid. Calm, calm hands. It's just really annoying in back eating. So yeah, if you like, blew it 50 feet and you just have to back eat immediately and it's just kind of tedious. Or if you blew it at the very end, you might have to spend an hour back eating.

00:49:58:11 - 00:50:21:13
Unknown
And then. And then. And then you might be kind of tired for this day. So it's like that is a thing. I definitely I had to do all the back eating for Necronomicon and my really good friend Spencer supported me throughout the whole Necro journey. It wasn't the case with me for a long shadow dispenser. There wasn't a whole lot of.

00:50:21:15 - 00:50:53:15
Unknown
Thank you, Spencer. There a whole lot of, like, actual amount of time in the caves. It was just a lot of trips. Like we got shut down one year completely. And that take that. Yeah. He drove from Colorado. So just to turn around. Well yeah the it's just but I one time joked I was like you know Spencer and Spencer's a really good photographer too That's why he wanted to go to Necro was to take pictures of it because he found it really inspiring.

00:50:53:15 - 00:51:28:04
Unknown
And I was like, You know, Spencer, I heard Bron wins photographer back hated every attempt that she made for her. And he was like, And he was like, Well, I took really good photos, so and he got all competitive and I was like, I guess that's true. You are super soon. You're right. Well, these sassy the years just it's a lot of work.

00:51:28:05 - 00:51:53:21
Unknown
Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work. I'm wondering, you know, I guess for our general audience, including myself, I'm really interesting because, like, just purely from the physiology, like, you know, maybe a lot of people more generically think of climbing, go climb a couple of hard routes. I'll do this. But when you're climbing something that is so hard, it's truly, absolutely just maxing you out in some capacity is uncertain.

00:51:53:21 - 00:52:13:13
Unknown
Burns And stuff like what is really a session on a climb like necro, you know how many how many actual good read point attempts can you get on that climb in a day that are feasible before you need to just say like, there's no way, You know what I mean? Like, is that one? Is it two? What is that like?

00:52:13:15 - 00:52:38:20
Unknown
I feel like it depends on, on the what muscles that that route requires. Necro is a lot of hands and then hands and then ring locks and it's shorter for a white rim roof crack. So 100 feet. So you could probably get like two good burns in that a day, like maybe one in the morning. And then like one in the evening, because it doesn't it doesn't like burn you out.

00:52:38:20 - 00:52:57:06
Unknown
Right? Like it's like it's like that was really, really hard. But like, you're not like it doesn't. It does. It's not like you got, like, ran over by steam truck. I'm just it's just so funny from my perspective. Like, I totally understand what you're saying, but everything you're saying, I'm just imagining myself like, where you could do such a funny YouTube video.

00:52:57:06 - 00:53:16:13
Unknown
You're like, It doesn't burn you out. And then, like Colin, I like trying it. Like, can't even get by the first move. And I'm like, burnt out and need to go home. Like wrecked. It's like, it's like, yeah, I think, I think I get what you're saying, but it's like the smaller, the smaller muscle groups, right? I guess maybe.

00:53:16:15 - 00:53:54:02
Unknown
But where I think like a real like black mamba, which is the one I did this fall and then married in it as well. Shout out to her that one is A 50 meter 14 B And so that length is 167 feet 14 B It's like, it's like neck necrosis mean like harder brother, and it has like three finger crack crosses and and a 24 off with.

00:53:54:04 - 00:54:26:11
Unknown
And so it's like full on and you the off with at the ending you're just like right chicken wing arm barring for so long that you're like my shoulder by the top out so like it had gotten kicked by like a small donkey with like spiteful little sharp hooves spiteful like this one, like. And so it was really hard for like, I only had one good burn of that rock climb in me a day before, like, my shoulder was just dead, you know?

00:54:26:11 - 00:54:54:07
Unknown
It's like you did that one move. It was like full body after, like, you know, it's like 50 meters and. And you're just, like, dead. So that one, I would have only, like, one good shot in a day. And I could kind of, like, climb after, but not, not, not with any hope of like sending. Yeah. And I feel like that one took me the most.

00:54:54:09 - 00:55:26:05
Unknown
Like, I feel like I spent more days on Black Mamba than I did Necronomicon, and it was mostly just learning how to make that climb climb easier, if that makes sense. Yeah. Developing the specific moves and technique that the climb itself calls for. Yeah, Just kind of like dumbing it down. Because the first time I did, like, the less than Crocs, I definitely climbed that older problem like it was V6, and I needed to climb it like it was three.

00:55:26:07 - 00:55:45:00
Unknown
And that took me a few days again, the the first time I climbed the off with I made it way harder than it should have been. And so it was just like climbing each section and dumbing it down, basically, so you could string it all together. Yeah. I'm notorious for making climb harder than they need to be. Not still on site, but for some reason.

00:55:45:02 - 00:56:04:11
Unknown
Yeah, way harder than I needed to be. I said I call it muscle fucking. So, like, muscle. Fine. Yeah. Where you call it a lot harder than you should know, but you get through it somehow. You just got to make a T-shirt that says that there was no brand name. There was no finesse there. Yeah. You just fucked your way.

00:56:04:13 - 00:56:29:23
Unknown
Yeah, I got a little finesse, you know, Just a little bit. I thought that just normal climbing, you know, it's like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm curious. You. I've got an interesting other quote. I think this from an article with you where you said, I don't feel like being the first female to climb. Necro is a career defining moment for me.

00:56:30:01 - 00:56:52:03
Unknown
I'm wondering if you could kind of expand and extrapolate, like why that why that what you meant by that? And then also, do you still feel the same for Black Mamba? I had that in that article because that was a question that they wanted me to like. It was like a question like, do you think that this is career defining for you?

00:56:52:05 - 00:57:28:19
Unknown
Like, is this is this like the moment? I guess, and for me, doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to me personally to be the first woman to do either of those routes. It's the only thing that matters to me is that more women and, you know, other genders get down there and try. And I feel like what really matters to me is seeing people really feel like they can have those experiences out there as well, and that it's not just this like hard man land.

00:57:28:21 - 00:57:51:15
Unknown
And that's how I felt. I remember, I remember Necronomicon sell really mentally hard for me just because I didn't feel like I belonged, you know, because I was like, Well, the only people that belong here is like Pete and Tom and Pee-Wee, right? Like, that's that's who belongs here. And I'm not like them. And like, I don't climb like them.

00:57:51:15 - 00:58:23:23
Unknown
I don't like, look like them. And I, you know, I think for me, the only thing that matters about climbing those roots and being a woman is that like, I hope that other women are like, ooh, if she can do it, maybe I can, you know, And like, I want them to like I told Mary you, you need to go do Black Momma because I spent a week cleaning that crack and it is the cleanest that thing is ever going to be.

00:58:24:04 - 00:58:48:04
Unknown
Coke. Please go do it and do not let my work go to a winning story. Like please go do it. Yeah. And she did it and it's amazing. And that makes me so freaking excited. I love that. You know, I just want more of that. I like, want that energy down there now. I think it's really special. So for me, it's not like career defining.

00:58:48:04 - 00:59:10:03
Unknown
It's just like it's a thing that was asked for me if it mattered to me. And I'm like, it only matters as much as like it gets more people out there. To me personally, no. We had a guest on the show, Nathan Longhurst, and in our last episode they had this moment where they were sharing, you know, what drove them.

00:59:10:04 - 00:59:32:18
Unknown
And Nathan shared, you know, I just feel like there's something else out there for me, and I just haven't found it yet. The and when I read that quote, I, I thought it was posed as like, is this the career defining moment, like black Mamba or Necro? Like, this is it. I've achieved my climbing goals. I've I've made a name for myself and this is my career defining moment.

00:59:32:19 - 00:59:53:18
Unknown
And when I saw that you said no, immediately I thought of like, okay, well, like, you know, what's what's next or what? Like, do you see this like, whole in your life where there is something to be accomplished that has yet to be done? So I feel like I just don't resonate with like any definition of one thing.

00:59:53:20 - 01:00:19:17
Unknown
I really do not believe that any one rock climb or any one season, any one style, defines me as a rock climber or as a person, and no one experience defines my rock climbing career. Then it never will. And so there will never be like a crowning career defining achievement. Because my how can my career be defined in one day right?

01:00:19:18 - 01:00:45:03
Unknown
Like so far, for me, it's been a decade. It's been a decade of summits. It's been a decade. Of course, it's been a decade of of pushing and trying and failing, bleeding and succeeding. How do I how do I feel like any one of those successes or failures is more important than another because they all build on one another and they all lead me to be who I am.

01:00:45:09 - 01:01:11:09
Unknown
So I, I feel like there never will be. Like, what's next for me? Because it's inevitably I'm just a rock climber. I'm going to go rock climbing, I'm going to choose to climb the things that interest me. And it could be hard or it could be hard then it is right now. I'm interested in seeing, you know, hard roots that might change Two years from now.

01:01:11:09 - 01:01:32:00
Unknown
I might just be super happy to go do some casual romping, but like you never know. Have you set your eyes on what room? If I'm pronouncing that right? Yeah. Yeah. I haven't set my sights on it, but I have seen it and I'm like, been like, it'd be cool to, like, go out there. Yeah, I've seen pictures of it, and I'm just like, That looks amazing.

01:01:32:02 - 01:01:56:20
Unknown
And considering your experience in the desert on sandstone cracks, I feel like I try to put myself in your shoes. And that would be like I'd be. I'd be looking at that place for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I moved away from Moab, and then all I ever wanted to do was move back. And so I'm pretty.

01:01:56:20 - 01:02:19:04
Unknown
I'm pretty in love with that place. I don't know what happened. I think red Dirt got in my under in my blood or something. Yeah, water around looks cool. I also I'm also like, a bit stubborn when I travel. I don't like to do the thing that I do at home. So when I travel internationally, I actually like to go sport climbing.

01:02:19:06 - 01:02:39:13
Unknown
Okay, I know that sounds really weird, but I like to travel to experience the things that are different or I like to travel and do the thing that the area is known for and I'm lonely and less likely to seek out things that are exactly the same or similar to what I have in my backyard. So like what?

01:02:39:13 - 01:02:59:11
Unknown
Iran would probably be on the bottom of my list. wow. Okay. Yeah. And on the top would be to revisit Mallorca and go deep water. So like, even though I suck at swimming and I suck at DWC. Can you swim, though? Yeah. Yeah. I think of his like videos of like shawarma going like by like, like V 12.

01:02:59:11 - 01:03:23:23
Unknown
All their problems are like, cool, dude. Like this is like, but I'm never going to be on that wall ever. I, I went in 2019 and I had a sprained ankle and I just really, really want to redo my Spain trip because I was like, stuck on oncoming like five, nine and 510. Then when I went DWC and Majorca, I was so excited for it.

01:03:23:23 - 01:03:48:09
Unknown
But I can only climb like ten feet up before just I was afraid if I went any higher I would have a hard time swimming with my ankle. It was right. Yeah. Yeah. It was really hard to swim with, I think actually. To live to drown today. Yeah. It's probably drowning other day. Yeah. I feel like I would be more psyched to go.

01:03:48:11 - 01:04:19:18
Unknown
Yeah. Climb trees in Puerto Rico, to be honest. Trees? Yeah. There you can do tree climbing in Rico, like sling the trees and climb barefoot. Okay. I thought you might like with your hands and feet because it's another sport I'm unaware of. And that knee? I don't know. That's pretty cool. Like it? I'm. I'm wondering, you know, hindsight's 2020, but what would Mary say to, you know, young, younger Mary sitting around the campfire dreaming of climbing?

01:04:19:18 - 01:04:43:01
Unknown
514 What kind of I don't know what what like through learning through these processes and stuff. What do you think is some some simple advice that you could have given to your previous self or to other, you know, people out there who are inspired by your story and thinking about that? Yeah, I, I think I would have liked to have started square climbing earlier.

01:04:43:03 - 01:05:10:19
Unknown
I also really should have been falling a lot more than I did. I never fell. I was like on site or die. Tragedy mindset. Yeah, I would have loved to put more of my foundation in rock climbing to be dynamic. I've spent so much of my rock climbing last several years trying to reprogram that very static, very controlled way of rock climbing.

01:05:10:21 - 01:05:35:00
Unknown
Like you even can tell with the way I talk about gear and like my preferred stuff, I'm like, I like control. You know, it's like I think I would have loved to go back in time and teach the younger me to be willing to just like, go be not having everything be so controlled, fall, fall a lot and jump.

01:05:35:04 - 01:05:41:11
Unknown
I really wish I jumped more.