70 | Ordinarily Extraordinary Part II w/ Evan Wisheropp

Today, we are continuing our conversation with Evan Wisheropp. If you missed part one, I highly recommend checking it out first. It provides a foundation for understanding who Evan is as a climber and how he achieved the objectives we’re discussing today.

In this episode, we’ll dive into Evan’s two main passions: desert offwidth splitters and route development.

First, we’ll discuss Evan’s recent send of The Cleaver, a 13b offwidth roof crack that, as Evan puts it, "contains all the hardest transitions of sizes that offwidth can offer, jumping from a splitter #2 to a #6 in less than 10 feet." We chat about the logistics and skills involved in sending not only this particular climb but all offwidths. We’ll also dive into his next offwidth project, an extension to the infamous Belly Full of Bad Berries.

Next, we’ll explore Evan’s passion for route development. Initially, Evan started developing routes because he ran out of 5.12s to climb in his local area. This quest for more climbs turned into a huge passion. Over the last nine years, he has established an impressive 475 routes in the Northwest region of California, investing nearly $60,000 of his own money. Many of these areas remain largely unknown to the public, offering hundreds of cleaned, bolted classic routes up to grade 5.13 with only a handful of ascents.

Evan lives near the Redwoods, the largest trees in the world, situated on the Pacific coastline. His local crags are nestled in these magical areas, featuring rocky coastlines and massive Jurassic trees towering hundreds of feet tall. He recently published a guidebook for these areas, which you can check out in the show notes.

Our conversation with Evan is a reminder of how much we can take for granted as climbers. We often show up to a climb that has been found, cleaned, and bolted, and leave without a thought of all the work that went into making that happen and who that person was. We feel honored to tell Evan’s story and hope to spread some awareness, not only of his accomplishments and significant contributions to the sport of climbing but to route developers everywhere.

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Cover Photo: @amanda_paints

Resources

The Cleaver

Evan's Instagram

Evan's Youtube

A Climbers Guide to Northwest California

Evan's Photography

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:48 The Cleaver
• 23:47 Route Development
• 40:18 Future Projects

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:03
Unknown
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:26:03 - 00:00:34:19
Unknown
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in and thank you for being a part of the Climbing majority. Today we are continuing our conversation with Evan Wisher up. If you missed part one, I

00:00:34:19 - 00:00:44:11
Unknown
highly recommend checking it out first as it provides a foundation for understanding who Evan is as a climber and how he achieved the objectives we're going to be discussing today.

00:00:44:13 - 00:01:07:14
Unknown
In this episode, we're going to be diving into Evan's two main passions dessert off with splitters and root development. First, we're going to discuss Evan's recent send of the cleaver a 13 be off with roof crack that, as Evan puts it, contains all the hardest transitions of sizes that offer it can offer jumping from a splitter number two to a number six in less than ten feet.

00:01:07:16 - 00:01:29:11
Unknown
We chat about the logistics and skills involved in sending not only this particular climb, but all off wits. We'll also dive into his next off with project, an extension to the infamous belly full of bad berries. Next, we'll explore Evan's passion for root development. Initially, Evan started developing roots because he simply ran out of 512 to climb in his local area.

00:01:29:12 - 00:01:53:15
Unknown
The quest for more turned into a huge passion, and over the last nine years, he has established an impressive 4775 roots in the northwestern region of California, investing nearly $60,000 of his own money. Many of these areas remain largely unknown to the public, offering hundreds of cleaned, bolted classic routes up to grade 513, with only a handful of a sense.

00:01:53:17 - 00:02:15:15
Unknown
Evan lives near the redwoods. The largest trees in the world. Situated on the Pacific coastline. His local crags are nestled in these magical areas, featuring rocky coastlines and massive Jurassic trees towering hundreds of feet tall. He recently published a guidebook for these areas, which you can check out in our show notes. Our conversation with Evan is a reminder of how much we can take for granted.

00:02:15:15 - 00:02:35:09
Unknown
As climbers, we often show up to a climb that has been found, cleaned and bolted and leave without a thought of all the work that went into making that happen and who that person was. We feel honored to tell Evan's story and hope to spread some awareness, not only on his accomplishments and significant contributions to the sport of climbing, but to route developers everywhere.

00:02:48:16 - 00:03:09:11
Unknown
So I, I think we've done, a great job at, like, rounding out your experience as a climber and kind of, like, diving into your mentality on gear, and you've, you know, painted this picture of a foundation of, like, learning through traumatic injuries. so talk to us about your, your cleaver project.

00:03:09:13 - 00:03:15:09
Unknown
you know, you recently just, you know. Yeah. Talk to us about that objective and kind of, you know, how that all played

00:03:16:00 - 00:03:46:12
Unknown
Yeah, sure. So the cleaver is in probably my favorite canyon in all of Utah. it's just this, like, really quiet, peaceful canyon. And there aren't that many available lines to be climbed. when you try to find routes in that canyon, you got to, like, really work for them. You got to clean cars, or there might be sections of face climbing.

00:03:46:14 - 00:04:13:15
Unknown
and so I really enjoy walking that canyon, day canyon. Sorry. And, so I've been looking at that one for a little while, and I remember looking up at thinking, oh, that looks like no problem, you know? And, finally got up there and realized it had just all of the markings for a brutally terrible off with, I remember thinking, oh, it'll be so easy.

00:04:13:15 - 00:04:37:04
Unknown
You just throw your foot in and do a little chicken way and get out of there, you know, quicksand and the project, you know, off with can surprise you. You know, it's not always what it looks like. But on the other hand, off widths can be fairly mundane once you get used to them. you know, it can be pretty cookie cutter.

00:04:37:05 - 00:05:05:07
Unknown
You know, if this then that, you know, and, and you can kind of foresee what you're going to do and that particular climb was really interesting because, you know, a sport climb can surprise you with weird batter, but off with doesn't really do that. So this one had that kind of feel where it's not it's not at all simple.

00:05:05:09 - 00:05:35:11
Unknown
so so I really appreciated how confusing that was. And, I appreciate it. But generally when I go on vacations and projects something I want to finish it like a day or two. And I remember, like on the second day, I'm like, dang, this thing is beating me down, and wondering, you know, am I getting this bad or wrong, you know, and and so, it was, you know, I thought I was close.

00:05:35:11 - 00:06:00:10
Unknown
I remember I told everybody, I'm one move away from sending. And then, as you might have seen in the video, no, that one move is basically the same difficulty as like 25 other moves, you know? So anyway, I was thinking I was ready to sand. We're going to go out the next day. And then that is when Covid shut down everything.

00:06:00:12 - 00:06:21:05
Unknown
And so in Moab, you know, the town shut down campgrounds shut down, and everybody scurried back to home and, and so it was kind of a little, you know, it was too long till I could get back. And, you know, that fire started like, fade a little bit and fear

00:06:21:05 - 00:06:30:14
Unknown
because I had a, a cam slide on me during one of the falls, which, is, is pretty wild, right?

00:06:30:16 - 00:07:06:01
Unknown
because, I don't know if you know the Valley giant cams, but they're, they're nine inches and, at least that size. And, you have one of those things slide down the rope and hits you like, that's kind of really hurt. and just. I remember the gear. Just. How do you get around the gear and then on one of the falls, my rope cut, on a top rope fall while following the clean it, my rope cut, like, 25% through, and I didn't notice it till I got to the ground and looked at it and just like terror.

00:07:06:15 - 00:07:31:13
Unknown
And so I remember I was home for about a year and thinking like how? How am I supposed to, like, climb this thing without my cams ripping out, without my rope cutting? is it even possible? So I ended up realizing, okay, if I put a bolt in this certain spot here, it'll redirect the rope and, and it'll keep it away from the sharp edge, which it did great.

00:07:31:15 - 00:07:59:13
Unknown
but unfortunately, you couldn't clip the bolt on lead because just in the wrong spot. So basically, my my mission or what I was doing while projecting was I would climb up, skip the bolt, and just promise not to fall above the lip and, and then on the way down, I just kind of hand lower on the rope, clip the bolt, and, so there were a lot of, like, intimidations with the route.

00:07:59:14 - 00:08:23:21
Unknown
And, you know, I thought I was doing everything right. But, you know, when you get friends to work on a project with you, they'll pick up things that you missed and so, I was going to go out there with the wide boys and marry, Mary Ian. and I was going to get, you know, some good experience climbing with them, and we would all climb together, and I could learn from them as well.

00:08:23:23 - 00:08:49:19
Unknown
Well, anyway, they found a different way to arrange the gear, which actually, at this point seems painfully obvious, but, wasn't one that came across my mind. And, Yeah. So they were able to get the rope relocated away from that really sharp edge. And, still, climate super safe. so now we don't clip the bolt.

00:08:49:21 - 00:08:55:22
Unknown
which is totally fine, but, eventually I'll probably remove it, but. Yeah.

00:08:55:22 - 00:09:17:17
Unknown
so I was going to meet up with, the white boys and Mary Eden, also known as Chad Princess, last fall. But then I ended up getting just so caught up with work trying to, you know, get enough money to be able to even go out there and, and then I was like, okay, I'm only going to be able to be there for like four days.

00:09:17:17 - 00:09:38:08
Unknown
So I just kind of fell off the map a little bit. And, they hit me up and said, so you, you come in and I was like, nuh Like, you guys just go send it. And, so it was really good that they went out there because then, they discovered the different way to place the gear and avoid the sharp edge.

00:09:38:08 - 00:09:46:07
Unknown
And, and then, you know, put a little fire under me to start training again and, and pull it off.

00:09:46:22 - 00:09:50:18
Unknown
Did they. Did they send it before you? Or did they save the first asset for you?

00:09:50:21 - 00:10:15:06
Unknown
Oh, no. I told them to send it. I mean, like, you know, the white boys are going to crush that, right? You know, it's absolutely. so and that's like, that's only the second far I've ever given away. but, you know, it's kind of like a get off the pot type thing, that route, I mean, it's not some sport climb in my backyard here.

00:10:15:07 - 00:10:20:17
Unknown
I mean, that thing is an ultra classic, and, like.

00:10:20:19 - 00:10:22:09
Unknown
Yeah.

00:10:36:20 - 00:10:37:14
Unknown
Yeah.

00:10:37:14 - 00:11:16:22
Unknown
So it's a two pitch climb. first pitch. We have no idea what grade it is. It's like some hard section that we don't know how to grade up to. Like a really fun 511 and, probably like some sort of 512 and then a pretty decent little ledge, but then it's this incredible hand crack that just arches and arches into a roof, and then the roof just opens up instantly into and off with and when it comes to off with, there's certain like transitions from one size to another that are easy and some that are hard.

00:11:17:00 - 00:11:34:10
Unknown
And the clever has every combination of like hard transition in off with and then like right when you think that you're at like redemption, you finally get a chicken wing and you're like, okay, I'm saved. That's like when it actually starts to get hard.

00:11:34:10 - 00:11:45:12
Unknown
So it's just like a really deceivingly hard off with, like and it's just astoundingly esthetic.

00:11:45:16 - 00:11:52:07
Unknown
I mean, you're just hanging out over space so, you know, exposed and,

00:11:52:07 - 00:12:09:19
Unknown
the crazy thing is that the canyon is so tiny, it's not like Indian Creek where it's this expanse. Jay Canyon is such a tiny, tight little canyon that everything echoes. So, you know, you're grunting and you're screaming and you're send farting and it's all echoing the canyon.

00:12:09:21 - 00:12:22:17
Unknown
And it's just like every day on that project is like a raucous, amazing time. And, so I think that's why it's like my favorite place.

00:12:24:03 - 00:12:32:01
Unknown
Day Canyon my favorite. Like like Moab spot. My my favorite. Like, you know, desert sandstone spot.

00:12:46:08 - 00:12:55:06
Unknown
Yeah.

00:12:55:08 - 00:13:01:22
Unknown
Oh.

00:13:04:22 - 00:13:07:05
Unknown
Yeah. So that's actually pretty funny, because

00:13:07:05 - 00:13:29:19
Unknown
these glasses I used to never have a problem. I could hit them. Whack. they'd stay on, but I'm, like, super broke right now, and I can't afford new glasses. And these things are all, like, stretched out and loose, so it's like I was going to go for it. So I'm not used to having to wear the the charms to keep them on.

00:13:29:21 - 00:13:53:15
Unknown
I just, you know, never thought about it. I never lose my glasses. But like I said, they're just so old and floppy now, and, so when I, when I knocked my glasses off, I was just so, you know, surprised at it. But the crazy thing is, is later in the video, you saw me, I did, exit wound another roof crack off with their.

00:13:53:16 - 00:14:21:01
Unknown
It's a 12 a roof crack that I did as, like, a rest day for the cleaver. And, on that one, I knocked my glasses off also. And then those landed in my mouth also, which was nuts. I mean, what are the chances? And then on the last day of the trip, we did another off with, another 12 a and that and then that one.

00:14:21:01 - 00:14:38:14
Unknown
I clipped the anchor and knocked my glasses off and catch them in my mouth a third time. So I've been climbing for like 23 years or something like that. And like the only three times, like, catch my glasses in my mouth are like, within two weeks.

00:14:38:14 - 00:14:41:21
Unknown
So weird.

00:14:41:21 - 00:14:46:11
Unknown
I remember like seeing you through the crux. Just like total crux space. And your glasses

00:14:47:20 - 00:14:51:22
Unknown
Is like.

00:14:53:04 - 00:15:15:02
Unknown
I literally in that moment, I thought about letting them go. I was just like, because I, I thought for some reason that I had a chance at sending. Because when you're in that spot in the climb, even when you're doing really well, like you're, you're not ready for like the pivot at the end of the, the crack.

00:15:15:03 - 00:15:19:02
Unknown
Yeah. I'm glad I didn't let him go.

00:15:20:08 - 00:15:23:12
Unknown
So, what what did that climb mean to you

00:15:23:12 - 00:16:01:22
Unknown
So the interesting thing about the cleaver was that I didn't apply myself as well as I should have. You know, if I had, I would have sent it three years ago, you know, but I think I let you know. Intimidation and distractions get in the way. And so I think one of the things I learned from the cleaver was that when you're really excited about something, just put it in the forefront and do it like, you know, because I never once lost stoke for it, you know, even if I was intimidated.

00:16:02:00 - 00:16:21:17
Unknown
So, you know, that was something that was an important lesson for me. I also learned that, you know, this is a lot of fun to just not stress out about it because at the beginning of the trip started out fun. Oh, I'm going to go do the cleaver. I bet I'm going to do it on the first or second try today, you know?

00:16:21:17 - 00:16:47:10
Unknown
And then I got smashed. And then that second time I tore my oblique, really rough. And then for, yeah, 4 or 5 days, I was just like, I'm not going to do it, you know? And I just like it's a long drive, you know, to come up and then fail again. so I learned a lot about patience on that one.

00:16:47:12 - 00:17:19:05
Unknown
And, and it's not even my longest project. You know, I think I just, I didn't, I didn't know how to project that kind of climb at that difficulty, effectively, because it's not like a sport climb where you just roll up with your friends and somebody climbs this route and you climb that route. it's kind of like a whole ordeal, you know, you got to get somebody up on the second pitch and and, you know, obviously, like, we want to take some video stuff because, it's pretty wild.

00:17:19:05 - 00:17:37:22
Unknown
what is kind of like your process getting ready for like an off with like that. And then when you're climbing off with like if you are comparing yourself to maybe like the Wide Boys or Mary or other people who've climbed with, do you like feel that you characteristically bring like a normal amount of gear? Do you bring more gear than you need?

00:17:37:22 - 00:18:00:09
Unknown
Like because like, you know, I've seen videos where, like, people be like double bumping cams and like a run out where, like, if something failed, like, you just like die. Do you find, like, that's like an appropriate margin of error, like maybe just a little bit of insight into your, like, kind of behind the scenes of like what it takes to like, prepare physically, but then also like your approach to actually off with climbing, if that makes sense.

00:18:00:09 - 00:18:20:04
Unknown
So I. I really like the ritual. Behind. Off with climbing. There's quite a lot that you have to do before you can even step off the ground. you know, if you've got a big trip ahead of you and you're not trying to, you know, blow out all your skin, you're going to put on crack gloves or tape gloves.

00:18:20:04 - 00:18:51:09
Unknown
You're going to put on elbow pads, knee pads, find some proper flexible pants that don't tear. Right. my method is I go to the thrift store and just buy a pair of pants that lasts me 3 or 4 climbs. and. Yeah, I mean, really, it's I, I blow through pants so quickly. I think I went through four pairs of pants on the cleaver between all the years

00:18:51:23 - 00:18:54:14
Unknown
Just imagine. You like the. Like the Incredible Hulk. Like the

00:19:02:14 - 00:19:05:16
Unknown
Yeah.

00:19:05:19 - 00:19:07:05
Unknown
Yeah. iPad. The pants are just

00:19:07:05 - 00:19:28:02
Unknown
Yeah, it's always like the butt slaps open up, you know, like, it's I honestly, I crack up so hard, like, we, you know, we go out to eat afterwards and then walk in it, and it's it's like a heaven. There's a hole in your butt, you know.

00:19:29:04 - 00:19:40:11
Unknown
but yeah, that's right. But yeah, I really appreciate the, the, the ritual of off with and like, preparing for it because

00:19:40:11 - 00:19:45:17
Unknown
there's something about off with that I think is it's like the exact opposite of sport climbing.

00:19:45:19 - 00:20:14:18
Unknown
Right. off with is like, it's usually pretty easy to hold still and and off with. It's just hard to move, you know, it's almost you can usually lock yourself in. But then, in order to move, sometimes you have to then unlock yourself, go, lock yourself. So I really think it like, fits my, my, you know, physicality.

00:20:14:20 - 00:20:25:12
Unknown
because I can try really hard and then go take a nap, like in the crack and then rest up and then get back to it, you know,

00:20:25:12 - 00:20:50:00
Unknown
and it's like you're just like a regular 100ft off with might be like 100 boulder problems with like a nap in between. and so I usually feel very like comfortable setting up for an off with and also because like if you're doing a finger crack pitch, you're bringing up a ton of gear because you got to place gear often.

00:20:50:02 - 00:21:14:10
Unknown
and you're not going to be bumping stuff butt in off with you cannot carry the amount of gear that you would carry to space out gear. It's just not feasible unless you're using Big Bro's. But those are a pain in the ass. So we just have to bump cams. And so that's just a just part of leading off with you could, you know, climb above the cams really far.

00:21:14:10 - 00:21:44:16
Unknown
But then my I just don't want to, you know, so we end up bumping cams often and you know, you don't want to be falling on valley giants and things like that. Anyway. So, so it's pretty safe. I mean, off with is is pretty darn safe. And really the only safety risk is that you might get a knee stuck, but when you climb long enough, you learn how when you climb off with long enough, you learn how not to get limbs stuck.

00:21:44:18 - 00:22:00:02
Unknown
and like, I haven't had a knee get stuck since maybe high school and, and so, you know, it's pretty safe. The.

00:22:00:04 - 00:22:24:03
Unknown
Yeah. How do you avoid the boogie tell you poop scenario? Yeah. So the worst thing you can do when doing a knee lock is relax that knee as the worst thing you can do is settles it, and it's just going to wedge it in. Right. So if you've got that knee lock I mean if you're in a knee lock you want that good.

00:22:24:08 - 00:22:48:08
Unknown
Right. So you can do that froggy foot where you take your toe and point out of the crack there. So it really locks your knee in. Right. So you want that to be really nice and set and then your low foot, you want that to be in a comfortable spot where that foot's not going to slip. so if that low foot slips but your high knee is set, you're fine.

00:22:48:12 - 00:23:10:10
Unknown
It won't get stuck. but if that low foot slips and your high leg, your your knee is a little sloppy, then it could slide. So if it's at risk of sliding, then you might consider trying to do a thigh lock instead, which can be a little bit more strenuous. Just go a little bit deeper. So you should just, just to avoid, you know, getting a knee stuck.

00:23:10:10 - 00:23:32:09
Unknown
You always want to stay engaged and make sure that you've got a lot of room available on your jam. I mean, imagine your your knee or your thigh is like a cam. You don't want to place it tipped out. Yeah. And so your leg goes, your thigh goes through a variety of sizes. And so your thighs like a, like a cam.

00:23:32:11 - 00:23:45:14
Unknown
And you're just going to make sure to bury enough of your, your knee or your thigh until you, you fill that gap and you're not at risk of it sliding.

00:23:45:16 - 00:23:47:15
Unknown
Yeah.

00:23:47:15 - 00:23:51:07
Unknown
want to circle back to your

00:23:52:11 - 00:23:56:13
Unknown
Yeah.

00:23:56:14 - 00:24:15:06
Unknown
Yeah. 13 be it. Oh, I got to tell you, I was very, relieved when everybody agreed with. With my grade vote. I was so terrified. I was like, there could be, like, 12.

00:24:15:08 - 00:24:17:10
Unknown
Yeah.

00:24:19:02 - 00:24:22:14
Unknown
It's insane.

00:24:53:23 - 00:24:55:08
Unknown
alongside the white boys and stuff.

00:24:55:08 - 00:25:15:22
Unknown
I'm like, you know, like, I haven't seen this guy. Where the hell is he? And so, it was just really cool to stumble upon your, your account. but it's funny because it's like you've done most of your work, like you just said, 84% of all the climbs in northwest, California. So, yeah. Like, talk to us about your your journey as, first essentially this out there, like, how many routes have you done?

00:25:15:22 - 00:25:20:01
Unknown
You said you've created a guidebook, like, talk to us about this chapter of your life.

00:25:20:01 - 00:25:27:05
Unknown
so I started climbing in northwestern California in 2009, and there's just so much climbing here.

00:25:27:07 - 00:25:50:05
Unknown
I moved up here to Humboldt to go to school, and I remember people, my climbing friends saying, there's no climbing up there like you. Don't you want to go somewhere, you know, closer to Yosemite? And it was kind of like I was moving into this, like, backwoods thing and and people's perspective. Nobody thought much about Humboldt, northwestern California when it comes to climbing.

00:25:50:07 - 00:26:16:17
Unknown
And, but I had seen this climbing guidebook by Eric Marlow and Paul Humphrey and, and it was this black and white guide with no photos or just a few photos. Hand-drawn topos, no guidebook descriptions at all, just name and grade and bolts count, bolt count. And it was like this mystery that like, I felt like I had to solve.

00:26:16:19 - 00:26:40:03
Unknown
So I came up here and just started climbing everything. and my goal was to just try to climb as many routes here as possible. And then in 2015, I ran out of routes that were available to me that I hadn't climbed, that I felt like I would be able to climb. And so I just started bolting routes.

00:26:40:08 - 00:27:11:03
Unknown
And ever since then I bolted. I think about like 600 routes here. Yeah, it's, it's been quite a lot. And, and I've developed countless new crags and, to share it all, I published a new climbing guidebook that came out last year, and it's a very all encompassing guide, because I want people from out of the area to feel comfortable to come here and adventure.

00:27:11:14 - 00:27:36:21
Unknown
There's a lot of, recreational opportunities here. we're right on the coast and there's coastal climbing there and obviously surfing and and so many other things to do. And then inland, we have the limestone and, you know, a lot of areas have issues with overcrowding, but we only have two crags here that have any risk of overcrowding.

00:27:36:23 - 00:28:19:09
Unknown
And they get, you know, they get kind of crowded sometimes on, on busy, busy weekends. But, we have this massive plethora of other crags that are absolutely phenomenal and you'll be mind blown if you see somebody else there, you know, all these years, and you'll never run into anybody else. and so my thought with this guidebook was that I just wanted to share all these other areas so people can come to the area, come check out the classics and, you know, the places that everybody knows, but also kind of like get off the beaten path a little bit and check out these other incredible locations

00:28:19:09 - 00:28:21:11
Unknown
because, just because an area is

00:28:21:14 - 00:28:48:07
Unknown
well known doesn't mean it's the best. You know, it just means that it's been known for longer. and we have some in sanely incredible limestone out here. And, and one testament to that is Ethan Pringle comes out here and finds new routes and, his favorite spot out here, Cecil Bluffs, which is just it's an absolute gold mine.

00:28:48:07 - 00:28:54:00
Unknown
I mean, he and many others have compared it to the same as climbing in Spain, just with nobody else there.

00:28:54:00 - 00:29:00:19
Unknown
yeah. And it's farther from the grocery store, and you got to camp. But, I mean, we enjoy camping, right?

00:29:01:04 - 00:29:02:10
Unknown
Hell yeah. We do.

00:29:02:10 - 00:29:08:20
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, you don't have to camp, but, you know, it's like it's slightly more remote to these places.

00:29:08:20 - 00:29:20:03
Unknown
And, but that also has the benefit of seclusion, and and you'll never, ever wait in a line. Especially if I keep bolting more routes.

00:29:20:03 - 00:29:22:03
Unknown
you share all these routes on Mountain Project?

00:29:22:23 - 00:29:42:12
Unknown
So I used to be really good at sharing routes and mountain project. And then right when, I was getting close to putting the book out, I was like, maybe I'll save this for the book. So. I know it's bad, it's bad, but I'm gonna I'm gonna start catching up on the mountain project postings.

00:29:42:12 - 00:29:57:07
Unknown
I'm kind of like, trying to lead us into, just kind of more of an ethical question. So we just. We just got had a conversation with, Miles Mosher and he, like, struggles with sharing routes at all on the internet. he like it.

00:29:57:07 - 00:30:04:18
Unknown
It muddles the the reasons for putting the route up in the first place. Like his routes are much more,

00:30:06:14 - 00:30:34:04
Unknown
Okay.

00:30:34:06 - 00:30:59:18
Unknown
Yeah. Yes, am I right? Development started because I ran out of five twelves in Northern California. and I didn't feel at the time I was capable of 513. but now that, you know, I am, becoming more capable in that grade range, I don't need to bolt as many routes here because there are routes that are available, preexisting for me to climb.

00:30:59:20 - 00:31:23:09
Unknown
that I haven't climbed yet. but that said, I just keep accidentally stumbling upon these, like, incredible locations with incredible routes. And, a lot of them just have, like, really unique character. this new cliff I'm working on right now is just, like, has wonderful features, you know, and and I want people to go out there.

00:31:23:09 - 00:31:46:05
Unknown
I want people to check out these climbs. I want them to have a good time. I want them to be safe. I want them to enjoy a nice trail on the hike out. so that they can, you know, enjoy the day. Because in my mind, sport climbing is, you know, supposed to be fun. and, so I try to ensure that the routes are safe.

00:31:46:10 - 00:32:27:04
Unknown
They're well bolted. if there's any risk, you know, I might put in an extra bolt or put bolts a little bit closer here, and if somebody chooses to skip a clip, then you know it's on them if they happen to get injured. but at least I've, you know, provided the opportunity for safety. and, you might, like, feel that cost when you're buying the bolts, but you don't feel the cost once they're in the wall and you see, like a, you know, a piece of artwork that people are going to enjoy because that that is, like, wildly exciting.

00:32:27:06 - 00:32:58:21
Unknown
You've put in an entire day's work on a route, you know, or 2 or 3 days even, and then people come out and they climb it and they're happy and they're stoked and they're like, I want to come back here. That is like massively rewarding. And, I mean, even just this weekend, you know, we were putting up roots and, one of my friends said, I've been teaching her how to bolt for a while, and she said, I think I might be ready and, you know, to bolt her own sport route.

00:32:58:23 - 00:33:40:19
Unknown
And so she and all of her friends, they all got together, and the three ladies and they bolted this sport out together and they called it, let's go, girls. From the, you know, the man. I feel like a woman. That song, you know, and, so they got to experience, like, the excitement of, like, finding and then creating the art, you know, and then they are now getting to experience, like sharing that creation because the sport climb, you know, you're deciding how people are going to enjoy this route because you're choosing where they're going to click.

00:33:40:21 - 00:34:05:00
Unknown
You know, you're choosing how often they're going to clip. You're choosing if they go left or right. And, if you ever climb one of my sport routes and you're wondering, you know, should I go this way or that way, the bolt almost always tells you, it will usually, you know, kind of guide you. so I really enjoy just people getting to have fun.

00:34:05:00 - 00:34:08:23
Unknown
It's also a great excuse to, like, get people out to a different location.

00:34:08:23 - 00:34:11:00
Unknown
Yeah,

00:34:11:06 - 00:34:15:01
Unknown
I think, no, I think it's, I would label.

00:34:16:14 - 00:34:19:08
Unknown
Definitely.

00:34:57:16 - 00:35:21:06
Unknown
Oh, definitely. That'd be great. I'll give you the tour. Eventually, I'll get them all up on Mountain Project. It's a lot of work. I get home, so as I'm like, when I get back to the car after climbing or even, like, while I'm at the crag, I'm just constantly updating my notes on my phone, and I just have a massive list of notes and I get home anytime I have spare time.

00:35:21:06 - 00:35:54:11
Unknown
I transfer the notes from like the sloppy form on my phone to the to be edited for the second edition of the guidebook list. And then my wife walks up and oh, are you working on those photos? Oh, I totally forgot. I gotta work on the photos. You know, work. you know, but like, to me, like, writing the guidebook, while it's like, a massive amount of work is really fun, I actually have a tally on the top of my, editing list.

00:35:54:11 - 00:36:15:12
Unknown
Any time, any day that I work on the guidebook, I add a tally to that. And I was working on it today, and it was 624 days that I've spent working on my guidebook, including the first edition. Yeah, that's a lot of days. Yeah. I just wish.

00:36:15:12 - 00:36:28:21
Unknown
have you seen, like, enough financial, like, purchasing of the book? Like, how can you know? Have you thought about marketing in it, or. It's just going to be a matter of time until people start to, like, come to the area?

00:36:29:17 - 00:36:53:11
Unknown
Oh, we've had people come from all over. It's been wild. I've been getting messages from people from all over the place. quite a few people have come down from, like, Banff, and I'm like, whoa. Like you're already, like, in, like, that's it, you know? And, and when people come from, like, big name places and stuff, I'm sometimes I'm a little nervous.

00:36:53:11 - 00:37:14:00
Unknown
I'm like, oh, we're in, you know, we're a little town, you know, little here and all that. But then they come and just have so much fun and I'm like, okay. Yes. Like it. Because, you know, you really want people to come and have a good time because around here, you know, aside from just the climbing and the other recreational opportunities, this is the home to the world's tallest trees.

00:37:14:02 - 00:37:44:17
Unknown
And we have so many spots in the redwoods here that are just incredible that even if you don't climb, I mean, this is a a place you'll never forget. and then you throw climbing on top of that, if you're a climber and it's just, like, very special. Yeah. We have a lot of people come here, especially last year after the book came out, a lot of people came to the coast, during the mid-summer heat and also the mid-summer wildfires.

00:37:44:19 - 00:38:06:19
Unknown
So, the coastal crags really were we're really, popular. And we met a lot of really cool people and, sometimes even, I'll be surprised and I'll meet people who came, come here to the coast and, have never been here before. And they'll find me at the crag and donate for bolts. I'm like, thank you.

00:38:06:21 - 00:38:20:17
Unknown
It's it's amazing how generous, some people can be to, contribute, you know, even to an area that they've only spent, you know, a couple of days. yeah. People are awesome.

00:38:21:14 - 00:38:35:00
Unknown
How? So, for people interested in the area, do you have, like, a name for the area or a name for, like, I'm. I have no, it sounds like there's 600 routes. Like, how is there a name for the area, a name for the guidebook. Like, how can people find

00:38:35:00 - 00:39:09:03
Unknown
like, oh, the the 600 something routes. Those are just the ones I bolted. I think we've got, like, 1500 or something like that total here. I bolted almost half of the routes in northwest California. Now I'm getting close. but the book is called, Climbers Guide to Northwest California. And, it's sold in various areas. it's sold, various places online, on the Wolverine publishing page, but also like backcountry gear, places like that.

00:39:09:05 - 00:39:14:13
Unknown
And, variety of climbing shops around California. In Oregon.

00:39:20:11 - 00:39:27:20
Unknown
not nothing I've heard. it would probably be something about that crazy guy. yeah.

00:39:29:17 - 00:39:48:12
Unknown
like that. Yeah, I do all this, like, very obsessively. It's the only way to, to get this much stuff done. So, it I always find it so entertaining when I, like, go out, you know, climbing around people, and they're like, how did you do all of that in one day?

00:39:48:12 - 00:40:12:20
Unknown
And it's like, you gotta. Because, like, when I finish this project, I'm so excited about these ten other projects waiting for me, you know, to bolt or climb or, I've been doing a lot of trail work lately, and, it's like, you know, if you build it, they'll come, you know, and, this new crag, like, people have been coming and checking it out and.

00:40:12:22 - 00:40:16:13
Unknown
Yeah, the season's closing, though, so it's sad.

00:40:17:00 - 00:40:23:11
Unknown
So, what's in the. What's in the future for you, man? What are you got your eyes set for? 2024? 2025? Like you

00:40:24:00 - 00:40:57:07
Unknown
Oh, I do. so my biggest dream project that I've been dreaming about since 2016 is, it's my September goal, and, I made a mistake with the clever by not trusting myself and not pushing myself. You know, I let, things go a little back burner, you know? And, so I'm finally picking up an old project idea.

00:40:57:09 - 00:41:23:22
Unknown
which is, I've been staring at, long extension above belly full of bad berries. Yeah. So I was up there in 2016, were at the anchors, and I, I looked up at, looked at, I mean, I, I clip the anchors and I immediately looked up and thought like, why doesn't it keep going? which is probably not a thought many people have had actually.

00:41:24:00 - 00:41:49:20
Unknown
But, but I've been staring at it for a long time, and, and I think it's time, so hopefully, hopefully it goes. Yeah. So you do the, the 13 off with and then at the anchor you go and it looks like like a little box chimney really narrow. And then it pinches down. It'd be like another invert off with.

00:41:49:22 - 00:42:26:08
Unknown
And then you get to a spot where the, the first pitch would end up there, and then the second pitch, which looks totally doable, but also like painfully exhausting, is another 120 or 130ft of just like Pure Roof. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, like against the wall. because you look at belly full of bad berries and you see the picture of the arch and it's this massive arch, but the root on the ends, like, right here, you've got all of this that needs to get climbed, you know?

00:42:26:10 - 00:42:28:01
Unknown
So,

00:42:28:01 - 00:42:29:17
Unknown
masochist.

00:42:29:17 - 00:42:54:10
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, well, so I've got plans. My plan is when I send the first pitch, which will be brutally just body wrecking, I'm going to haul up a portal edge. And my plan is I should just sleep up there and rest for as many days as it takes to do to recover, to do the second pitch.

00:42:54:12 - 00:43:26:14
Unknown
well, yeah, because if you do the first pitch and then lower down and the jug back up, that's that's cheating. Yeah. So I'm like, I'm bringing the portal edge. I'm going to sleep up there until I get to that second anchor. yeah. But oddly, right now to train for that, I'm bolting limestone overhangs.

00:43:26:16 - 00:43:52:22
Unknown
only some close friends. Really? Oh, they do? Yeah, yeah, Tom says. Yeah. Tom, he's like, yeah, you're definitely the guy for that job. Like when I told them to go climb the cleaver, they were like, yes, thank you. And then I told him about this one, like, you got it.

00:43:52:22 - 00:44:18:04
Unknown
But I mean, obviously, like, if it was like us against them, they would, you know, they would on-side it in their sleep. But those guys are amazing. They're also really friendly. I've never met him in person. But you know, we've we've talked and all that and, and, I think they're a fantastic inspiration for all the off with, you know, potential off with climbers out there.

00:44:18:06 - 00:44:33:22
Unknown
That's kind of what I was hoping with my video was that I just kind of wanted to, like, tempt people into trying it, but I don't think I did a good job of it in that. I don't think I made it look very appealing.

00:44:33:22 - 00:44:50:13
Unknown
what goes with that is there's a sense of. Human aspect to it, or it's like, there's, like, you can see the struggle and you can see the story. It's not just like, oh, cool, I sent it. That was sick. You know? It's like there's a lot more heart to it, which is pretty sweet.

00:44:50:15 - 00:44:51:21
Unknown
So are you planning on

00:44:51:21 - 00:45:29:23
Unknown
Definitely. Yeah. Oh, I gotta say about what you just said there about the the heart in the sending it, that day got home from, we went out to eat, celebrate. It was awesome. I got back to. I was staying at Mary's house. Chad Princess on Instagram, and, and I go over to my sleeping bag on the floor, and, there's a bouquet of flowers, and, the whole house had, like, bought flowers and like, other, like, gifts and things, and they, like, presented me with flowers for, like, accomplishing the goal.

00:45:29:23 - 00:45:39:01
Unknown
And I was like, oh, my God, you guys are so cool. Yeah. Because they knew it. It meant a lot to me to to wrap that up.

00:45:49:16 - 00:45:53:00
Unknown
I.

00:45:53:04 - 00:46:02:02
Unknown
Evan, how about yourself? You got any, anything you feel like we missed or, any reflections or anything that, you want to share with, with the majority?

00:46:02:09 - 00:46:40:18
Unknown
I'm quite amazed that you guys got into a lot of the things that are really important to me, you know, like, convincing people that they should get mentors, you know? Yeah, that's a really important one to me.

00:46:40:20 - 00:46:53:08
Unknown
And you hope they actually know what they're talking about? I've seen that countless times where a beginner mentors a beginner and disaster,

00:46:53:13 - 00:47:03:15
Unknown
Yeah. It's really interesting. Like, credibility is one. But I also think, like, two other factors in that are like, temperament, you know, you have to,

00:47:05:22 - 00:47:08:13
Unknown
Yes.

00:47:26:07 - 00:47:33:11
Unknown
Yeah.

00:47:33:13 - 00:47:45:22
Unknown
Yeah.

00:47:46:00 - 00:47:56:20
Unknown
Yeah.

00:47:56:22 - 00:47:57:17
Unknown
Yeah.

00:48:14:10 - 00:48:19:08
Unknown
That does end up. Yeah, yeah.

00:48:25:11 - 00:48:26:03
Unknown
Yeah.

00:48:26:03 - 00:48:34:18
Unknown
like B show who you are. You can't just like be I don't know, you can't be on a like a screen and expect people to like invest their time.

00:48:34:18 - 00:48:36:12
Unknown
for, like, climbing.

00:48:36:12 - 00:48:43:10
Unknown
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

00:48:43:10 - 00:48:48:11
Unknown
the tick list is on there as well, so you can vet them.

00:48:48:11 - 00:49:05:17
Unknown
We had, we had a big survey we put together for the climbing community, maybe five years ago. Asked all sorts of questions. Scale of 1 to 10. How much do you agree or disagree? And, you know, as questions about beta spraying, you know, stuff like that.

00:49:05:17 - 00:49:30:10
Unknown
Pretty you know, that's all been figured out pretty well. Well, one of the questions was, how do you feel about safety, safety spray? You know, people I don't remember the exact wording of the question, but, you know, people telling you, how you can improve your safety. And then it was in the moment, another question was after the moment.

00:49:30:12 - 00:50:00:06
Unknown
And I was surprised, it was, it was like half, almost half of the people said they don't want to be told, how to climb safer. it was like, they don't want to be told about, when they're doing something dangerous. That was the wording. Yeah. So I feel like, Yeah. Yeah, I was surprised because, you know, you want to be you want to help people in a positive way, which is why, we did this big survey.

00:50:00:06 - 00:50:18:21
Unknown
So, like, how can we help people and guide people because we want them to get the info that they need, but also while doing it comfortably. And, we learned that it was like 45 something percent of people just didn't want to know,

00:50:18:21 - 00:50:25:11
Unknown
truly life the endangerment for themselves or their partner, it is your duty to say something, regardless

00:50:26:19 - 00:50:33:10
Unknown
That's my opinion. We agree on a lot. I like you guys.

00:50:49:04 - 00:51:01:10
Unknown
Yeah.

00:51:01:12 - 00:51:17:07
Unknown
I feel like when people do, step in and help like that, I think the more that they do that, the more comfortable and able they are to do it in a polite and kind and productive way. I think it comes with practice, like many things. Yeah.

00:51:17:07 - 00:51:38:15
Unknown
Well, thanks, man. I mean, I appreciate you coming on the show. you know, we've, it's been kind of, a couple of weeks pending here. And I love the fact that we made it happen. I really appreciate your dedication to, you know, fine tuning the details and everything. And I appreciate your your creative eye and, attention to detail as a as a creative and a photographer.

00:51:38:15 - 00:51:41:08
Unknown
So, it's definitely, been an honor to have you on the

00:51:42:07 - 00:51:46:13
Unknown
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.

00:52:07:19 - 00:52:31:05
Unknown
video was, was very funny. So, but yeah, no, man, like, just everything you're doing for the climbing community and, you know, kind of what you alluded to with spending 600 days on your guide book and stuff. I'm just totally blown away and amazed just how much people truly give to just, like, climbing and the community and like the artistic and like their the style of life.

00:52:31:05 - 00:52:42:12
Unknown
Just people almost like, live like it's an entire culture, but it's, you know, facilitated by people doing literally what you're doing. And, yeah, it's really it's really, truly amazing. So thank you.

00:52:42:12 - 00:52:47:16
Unknown
Thank you. That. That means a lot to me. Yeah.

00:52:49:21 - 00:52:52:23
Unknown
Oh, yeah. I'll give you the coordinates. Dude.

00:53:05:00 - 00:53:18:08
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah, we call it the Dick tree. You know, the irony is that's actually the, world's second largest redwood by volume. So it's it's actually a notable tree.

00:53:18:08 - 00:53:24:05
Unknown
okay. This is not including the penis and including the penis. It's the first largest by volume,

00:53:28:09 - 00:53:29:15
Unknown
Exactly.

00:53:29:15 - 00:53:36:22
Unknown
You know, the funny thing, if you're driving at any of our coastal crags, it's literally just like a four minute detour.

00:53:37:04 - 00:53:45:23
Unknown
I've sent that to all those, like, nature's dick pics, sites and stuff, but they've never shared it. Yeah, yeah, there's all these Instagrams.

00:53:46:03 - 00:54:06:20
Unknown
There's even a calendar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nature's dick pics. It's like, you know, it's a lot of like Utah towers make the cut obviously. Yeah. But, well, I mean, I should send you a picture of this cliff that I developed, called the prism Pillar.

00:54:06:20 - 00:54:14:17
Unknown
it's. Yeah, it's very it's got a big boulder at the base.

00:54:14:17 - 00:54:20:08
Unknown
It's got the thing, and it's got a bush right there. It's got the,

00:54:22:20 - 00:54:47:22
Unknown
I'll send it. Did you. Do you know what that word means? like the priapism pillar? Do you know what that is? Okay. that is, that's an erection that won't go away. So a giant rock, you know, it's permanent.

00:54:48:00 - 00:54:55:05
Unknown
Yeah, this is off the air.

00:54:55:07 - 00:55:14:13
Unknown
But, yeah, the, the dictionary. It's so funny. You go there and you watch. There used to be no trail to it. I remember when, like, it was just, like, off there, and now there's, like, this big wide path going to it, but. But every time I take out of towners there, it's just because for me to detour you, you're not going to miss that.

00:55:14:15 - 00:55:35:09
Unknown
And you'll just see just strangers walking up and just cracking up, you know? And it's like, okay, it's not just me.

00:55:35:10 - 00:55:43:11
Unknown
It's got a little curve.

00:56:03:14 - 00:56:08:13
Unknown
Oh. That's terrible.

00:56:20:19 - 00:56:38:08
Unknown
That we have taken so many funny pictures at that tree. You know, like the, you stand for the Eiffel Tower and you're like, oh, Eiffel Tower. You know, there's a lot of, like, you know.

00:56:38:10 - 00:57:02:09
Unknown
Yeah. That's actually, so I've started to do, like, I'm going to do a April Fools video every year. Sorry. I'm scratching my entire poison oak at my tech news. Worn off. trail work. yeah. I'll send you a I'll send you guys a before and after photo of this trail work. I've been doing. Crazy.

00:57:02:09 - 00:57:26:19
Unknown
So, I did an April Fool's post last year where I had taken a drone photo of this cliff that is, truthfully 15 minutes from my house, 300ft tall. It's all garbage jars. Nobody knew about this cliff right there. I took a photo of it with the drone, and then I, like, drew a bunch of topo lines on it and then post it up on April Fools and said, like New Crag, 28 new routes.

00:57:26:19 - 00:57:51:22
Unknown
Surprise. And there are like hundreds of people who are like, thank you so much. You're God, you know? And then like, I'm like, oh shit, I can't back out of this. and like two people who are like people here who, like, used to bolt once, but now they don't make time for it. So they're grumpy and they got, like, super mad at me and I'm like, nice.

00:57:52:00 - 00:58:19:18
Unknown
but, anyway, so I'm trying to make, like, an April Fools Day thing every year. And so next year's is I'm going to be making a video about I'm starting an OnlyFans so I can pay for my bolt. Yeah. So that's it. And then the next one I have up after that is, I'm going to buy like a just a bag of like 300 hangers, which I do often and, get a picture of them.

00:58:19:18 - 00:58:46:05
Unknown
And then I'm going to do a little video that says, hey, I've gone broke. I had to go cash in my retire amount, which is all on the cliffs. So I pulled all the hangers down. I'm going to sell them. So anybody wants to buy hangers? yeah. I like to, like, really kind of push it. I chopped all these, these bolts so I can sell the hangers.

00:58:49:11 - 00:58:59:17
Unknown
Yeah. Exactly. And I do so much revolting that.

00:58:59:19 - 00:59:10:09
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I'm. I'm stoked. I'm. And make it make it pretty dramatic and all that. But yeah, that'll be next year. Or the only fans one.

00:59:11:11 - 00:59:28:13
Unknown
That's it for today's episode. Everybody, I want to extend a huge thank you to Evan for coming on the show for part two. And thank you, listeners for tuning in. If you'd like to learn more about Evan and his roots, please check out our links in the show notes. One final thing we need your help. Please share this podcast with your friends.

00:59:28:15 - 00:59:42:20
Unknown
Word of mouth is the best way to support the show. Plus, don't forget you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Until then, keep exploring. Stay safe. And as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. See you in two weeks.