00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:03
Unknown
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:24:17 - 00:00:34:19
Unknown
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in and thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. Today we are sitting down with Evan Wisher, a part time professional photographer with a full time passion
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Unknown
for climbing. Evan's climbing journey began, like many of us, in a climbing gym. From there, he explored various climbing disciplines until he found his two true passions desert off wits and root development.
00:00:46:11 - 00:01:09:19
Unknown
Off with climbing takes Evan to Indian Creek and Moab, Utah, every year to tackle massive desert off with splitters. His latest project, the Cleaver, a 13 be off with roof that Evans spotted while scouting. After several failed initial attempts, he handed over the first ascent to the Wide Boys, but returned the next season to Red point throughout and even filmed a short documentary about his experience.
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Unknown
When Evan is not suffering up desert off widths, he spends his time climbing and developing new routes in the northwest region of California. He began developing routes back in 2014, and since then has created an impressive 4775 routes. Over the last nine years, Evan has personally invested nearly $60,000 to develop the limestone crags of Northern California. Many of these areas remain largely unknown to the public, offering hundreds of cleaned, bolted classic routes with only a handful of a sense.
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Unknown
This conversation is split into two parts. First, will a journey back in time to explore how Evan became the climber that he is today. We'll dive into three traumatic climbing accidents that shaped his progression his relationship with trad gear, and his perspective on taking risk. Our conversation reminds us how dangerous climbing can be,
00:01:59:13 - 00:02:08:04
Unknown
But more importantly, it reminds us how we can learn and grow from our mistakes and still recover a deep passion for climbing and for the outdoors.
00:02:20:23 - 00:02:39:23
Unknown
I was camping out at this, this new cliff that I've been developing. Seems I've been more living there than camping there lately. yeah. New cliff I've been developing. It's, it's out there, but been building trail and hoping people will show up.
00:02:40:11 - 00:02:45:02
Unknown
Did you have any partner show up this time? I know you were kind of like. Like I'm ready to climb. Someone's going to come out here with
00:02:46:00 - 00:03:04:21
Unknown
Yeah. So I guess now we had, an amazing group on this trip. I think there were five of us. Yeah, five of us. Two people who didn't show up. But that's life. but, yeah, it was incredible. it's kind of one of those places where you don't really day trip it if you live where we live.
00:03:04:23 - 00:03:25:05
Unknown
best to go out there, camp, have a good time. And, we've been doing that for the last. You know, we've been doing that for the last, like, eight weeks now, actually. Yeah, four weeks in a row, but like eight weeks total.
00:03:25:05 - 00:03:28:10
Unknown
Camp. You get to climb, develop. Is that kind of like what the gist
00:03:28:10 - 00:03:39:10
Unknown
I mean, depends on when my partners are available. my job is pretty open to go whenever. but, yeah, if I just go whenever. Partners are available.
00:03:39:10 - 00:03:48:03
Unknown
Nice, dude. Well, I mean, you know, we can just jump right into it here, and, you know, welcome you to the show officially, you know, welcome. Welcome to the climbing majority.
00:03:48:18 - 00:03:58:19
Unknown
Well. Thank you. This is an honor. Yeah, I appreciate it. This is great.
00:03:58:21 - 00:04:22:17
Unknown
I actually had not. Yeah. But I'm. I'm excited that you guys did, because then I've been following along and and seeing your guys's shorts and, following along on YouTube as well for the full length. Yeah.
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Unknown
Oh, yeah.
00:04:26:17 - 00:04:33:18
Unknown
into kind of what your project is now, you know, in, in NorCal and kind of what you alluded to earlier in kind of LA to chat.
00:04:33:20 - 00:04:53:09
Unknown
So I think, you know, just a good way to start. I think, you know, we talked to a lot of climbers and, you know, depending on who we're talking to, it's interesting to to hear people's stories like how they found climbing and kind of like what brought you to these objectives that we're going to talk about. So kind of with the cleaver in mind.
00:04:53:09 - 00:05:05:01
Unknown
And you know, that off with challenge in and of itself. talk to us a little bit about like how, you know, how your climbing progressed and you know how you got into trad and then kind of slowly bring us to the cleaver and
00:05:06:20 - 00:05:08:02
Unknown
Sure. Sounds good.
00:05:08:02 - 00:05:20:14
Unknown
so I started climbing when I was really young. my dad would take me top roping, and then throughout high school, I got pretty obsessed about it. And I remember my first time climbing outdoors.
00:05:20:16 - 00:05:41:03
Unknown
I was going to be a sophomore in high school, and I did a sport climb, and I got terrified. I got to right before the anchor got so scared, didn't know what to do, that I down led the whole route because I didn't even know about bailing. And then the next day I did a climb big run out, but super easy.
00:05:41:05 - 00:06:13:06
Unknown
And I found some like chicken heads I could sling. And I remember that, like, excited me to wait a minute. If I climb trad, I could just put gear wherever I want, whenever I'm scared. So I started my climbing life as being terrified of sport climbing, but feeling very happy and cozy about trad climbing. so I built myself a big rack by climbing at Lover's Leap at Lake Tahoe, where I just showed up with a tiny little rack and I'd climb there.
00:06:13:08 - 00:06:38:14
Unknown
Monday mornings and, just go climb all the easy routes and just pluck gear that everyone's left. Because I used to live half an hour away for a couple of summer. Sorry. And, yeah, half an hour hike away. I didn't have a car at the time, and I just hiked to the cliff. Go climb the easy routes again and again and and just booty route, booty gear and,
00:06:38:16 - 00:07:02:18
Unknown
So, yeah, I started with feeling very comfortable with Chad. never had a piece of gear rip on me. but, you know, I never really fell too much. I didn't push myself that hard. so projecting kind of has been something slow for me to develop into, and I feel like we're all developing into that. But I was a little late in the game.
00:07:02:18 - 00:07:29:04
Unknown
My favorite thing to do was to show up to a cliff and just on side as many climbs as possible that were in my happy range. And, we've run out of those grades here in Northern California. And I ran out of those ten years ago. So, you know, led me into route development, which, for me is limestone, sport climbing and sandstone off widths.
00:07:29:06 - 00:08:03:03
Unknown
And, my favorite sandstone off with so far has been the cleaver. I put out a little video about it, which I think was kind of a little, personal look into my struggles on that kind of project in, you know, because anytime you're projecting, it's way more than just muscle, it's it's mental. And, I think that project really, almost taxed me mentally at times.
00:08:03:05 - 00:08:28:08
Unknown
you know, when something seems too big that it's easier to just put on the back burner, when, you know, you could do it, but you know that you're gonna have to put a lot of work into it. And when something's 18 hours away, it's like, do you really want to put that much work in? And, so anyway, I put a lot I put a lot of days into that thing, and it turned out to be one of the most memorable experiences.
00:08:28:10 - 00:08:48:04
Unknown
And, more than just the climb, I met, I think like ten or so people that helped me on the project. over the honestly, I only was on the climb for maybe six days over the years. Yeah, but.
00:08:48:04 - 00:09:03:14
Unknown
round you out a little bit more as, like a trad climber. It seems like you jumped into it pretty quick. You said you didn't have any, like, close calls, like is up to this point of climbing the cleaver. Are you still, like, in a in a position where, like, you've not had any gear rip you've not had any close calls with trad, have you had anybody close to you
00:09:06:04 - 00:09:33:03
Unknown
Oh, yeah, I guess I guess I did have some gear off once. And that was. That was in Yosemite, on a big wall on the prow. And, it's kind of embarrassing. It was on the prow because I was cruising and then I wasn't, as cruising up and then I got to a spot where there's supposed to be some fixed gear, and there wasn't, and I didn't have any fixed gear to replace it.
00:09:33:03 - 00:09:45:19
Unknown
And, then I went down very quickly and, exploded my left femur. yeah. Yeah, yeah. You didn't know that
00:09:45:19 - 00:09:51:02
Unknown
I know what the fuck.
00:09:51:02 - 00:09:53:12
Unknown
we go into that a little bit?
00:09:53:12 - 00:10:17:10
Unknown
So it I was, like, cruisin and getting a little ego. I was was that, sophomore year in college? No. Freshman year in college. So I was 19. Yeah. So I was 19. And cruising up the wall felt super strong, going super fast. and then,
00:10:17:10 - 00:10:22:00
Unknown
got to a spot where, you know, the topo says it's C2F if there's fixed gear.
00:10:22:00 - 00:10:39:00
Unknown
And, little did I know, a couple of days before, couple of pitons had been ripped out. And so I just kind of worked on getting some gear and things weren't really stick in. And I said, you know what? I could just stand on this, this piece, and I'll be fine. I'll top step and get that nut up there.
00:10:39:02 - 00:11:01:00
Unknown
And, it blew while I was right about to set that nut. And, and it was like the whole climb has been overhung until the one section where there's just a little bit of slab. And so I fell down the wall, hit this, you know, went down the slab and waiting for me at the bottom of the slab was little ledge about that big.
00:11:01:02 - 00:11:16:19
Unknown
And it just slapped me right in the femur. And, I exploded literally my my whole femur and my hip. I broke the ball of the femur off. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I spiral, fractured my my whole leg
00:11:16:19 - 00:11:29:14
Unknown
through. you know how when you sit in a harness, you're, like, sitting on your on your thighs? Really? Imagine one of your thighs has bent, like, you know.
00:11:29:16 - 00:11:38:17
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. So that's the one time that I had a piece of gear pull.
00:11:38:19 - 00:11:43:21
Unknown
Yeah.
00:11:43:23 - 00:11:50:20
Unknown
Yeah. It was. It was really bad.
00:11:50:22 - 00:12:13:12
Unknown
Yeah. It was, it's like nowadays when you go to the doctor and they they're like, what is the scale? 1 to 10 of your pain. Like, I have no comprehension of an answer because like the pain that I felt there, like if that supposedly the top of the scale is a ten, you know, then like nothing else compares.
00:12:13:14 - 00:12:42:19
Unknown
like I remember I like, broke my kneecap later after that and there, you know, it's all mangled and and they're like, how bad does this hurt? And I was like, I have about a four, you know? And they're like, oh, really? You know. So anyway, it was rough. I was, almost six hours hanging in the cliff and we wrapped, slings around my leg and just to kind of, like, keep it supported, you know, there's a the adjustable daisies from Italy.
00:12:42:19 - 00:13:04:12
Unknown
As we wrapped those around my leg. And every once in a while, it would just kind of sag a little bit, and I'd scream out for my partner to just tighten it like one millimeter, because everything in my leg was, you know, it was it was gone. and so to support my upper body, we didn't really have anything else.
00:13:04:12 - 00:13:29:16
Unknown
So he just got me the aiders, and I just leaned back and just held on to the aiders. basically, I just I just hung sideways like this, holding onto the aiders for six hours while he just like, huddled me like this, and he sang me Willie Nelson songs for six hours to keep me awake. And I was like, I just want to go to sleep.
00:13:29:16 - 00:13:42:04
Unknown
Just, just, I'm just going to take a little nap. And he just kept me awake the whole time. And, which is really good because it turned out I had, like, a lot of internal bleeding.
00:13:45:02 - 00:13:47:23
Unknown
yeah, I think
00:13:47:23 - 00:13:54:16
Unknown
one of my mottos for, like, life and especially climbing is that you don't know what you don't know.
00:13:54:16 - 00:14:16:19
Unknown
If you don't know that, you don't know it. And that was just like something where, you know, I was crushing it, and I was going so fast and everything was going so perfect that I just like, you know, I let my guard down and said, I'll be fine. And, took a risk that was very much, calculated.
00:14:17:12 - 00:14:23:13
Unknown
So since then, you know, that was my aid. Climbing injury.
00:14:23:13 - 00:14:24:21
Unknown
rescued? Off the wall.
00:14:27:08 - 00:14:33:18
Unknown
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00:14:34:03 - 00:14:57:00
Unknown
Oh, yeah. so. Oh, God, that was rough. so they lower down from the top, they try to do a helicopter rescue. It's too overhung. so lower down from the top. Two guys with a basket. And when they got to me, one guy had to hold the basket, and then the other guy kind of, like, supported my shoulders and told me that I had to pull myself into the basket.
00:14:57:02 - 00:15:07:10
Unknown
And I was like, I've been hanging on to this sling for six hours. I'm spent. And, and he was I don't know why, but I had to pull myself in.
00:15:07:10 - 00:15:32:01
Unknown
And so I dragged myself into that thing as he, like, pulled against me. And, you imagine the litters like this, you know, and I'm being pulled on to it, you know, and so my, my femur is just getting rubbed across and it's just like, and, and my femur just like more.
00:15:32:03 - 00:15:52:20
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. and so that was, Yeah, it was rough. And then he gave me, he gave me one shot of morphine, which, you know, like the first shot doesn't really do much. It's kind of round like the second or so. that starts like you. You really feel it? Like anger. Oh, shit. And I think what?
00:15:52:20 - 00:16:04:01
Unknown
I looked down, and I see the bag just falling to the ground and like, what was that? He's like, it's all the morphine.
00:16:04:03 - 00:16:04:20
Unknown
Yeah.
00:16:04:20 - 00:16:27:04
Unknown
So, So, yeah, I watched all the pain meds after, I mean, I got one, I got one hit, which, you know, was way better than nothing, but I do remember. So they had one rope that went all the way to the ground, which I'm like, damn, that is a heavy rope. I remember thinking that it was a dead helicopter to the top.
00:16:27:05 - 00:16:50:00
Unknown
but I remember as were lowering down and one giant rappelled to the ground, looking over and seeing. Just off to the side is Astro man. And I remember like, looking at like the features and the shapes and they like, oh, that looks like such a good climb. And like, maybe the morphine did actually kick in a little bit.
00:16:50:02 - 00:17:19:19
Unknown
yeah. And then it was, I think seven, six or 7 or 8 years ago. Went back and climbed Astro man on the first try. And and I remember being up there, equal elevation. What is that, just, 150ft to the right, looking over at, like, where I fucking splattered. And, it was interesting. I thought it would be a lot like, worse, but, like, I felt okay about it.
00:17:19:19 - 00:17:29:23
Unknown
So in terms of like. Like how run out were you? How far did you actually fall before you impacted the ledge? Like, how avoidable was this
00:17:29:23 - 00:17:59:14
Unknown
so actually, I really like that question, and I actually, I really appreciate you asking that because normally when somebody says, you know, how far you run out, you took a fall, you got hurt, you know, was taken like a 60 footer. You must have decked, you know, I think I only fell like 20ft, 20, 25ft. I was standing on one piece, that one blue, the piece below it, that one blew, and then the next one caught me, and I wasn't far off the belay.
00:17:59:16 - 00:18:31:08
Unknown
pretty close, honestly. So, I mean, my estimation has been 20 or 30, 20 or 25ft. And the reason why I'm like, happy to ask that is because oftentimes there's like the mentality, like the macho mentality of like, let's take big whips. Like, yeah, no worry, whatever. And I've, you know, I've actually had several climbing injuries, all from unfortunate whips, and none of them were that big of whips.
00:18:31:10 - 00:18:54:05
Unknown
so it's proven to me that it doesn't take that big of a whip to get messed up. It just takes something going slightly wrong. you know, it could be something as simple as you just kind of nick your foot on the way down and you flip, you know? And you weren't wearing a helmet. You didn't think you're going to flip, but you hit your head.
00:18:54:07 - 00:19:20:08
Unknown
So ever since that accident, I've been a huge proponent of trying to just trying to, you know, make sure that people are aware that you do have to be guarded. And even small whips can be very dangerous. Yeah. I it doesn't matter if it's aid or top rope or sport. I mean, well, yeah, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, aid or sport or trad.
00:19:20:09 - 00:19:30:06
Unknown
I mean, I've, I've seen people get wrecked top roping like, you know, they get carried away and go off axis and then they swing and hit a dihedral. I've watched that.
00:19:30:06 - 00:19:36:15
Unknown
Yeah. Like you fall. Hit a nub with your elbow. I saw somebody in the gym. Top rope. Break their elbow. Yeah, they just like
00:19:36:15 - 00:19:40:13
Unknown
Really?
00:20:11:23 - 00:20:13:02
Unknown
Yeah. It's so real.
00:20:13:02 - 00:20:15:23
Unknown
I always tell people that I have had my aid.
00:20:15:23 - 00:20:51:20
Unknown
Climbing injury, broken femur and hip. I've had my trad climbing injury when I was 16. Broken tibia, severe and, fifth metatarsal. I've had my sport climbing injury, broken radius, ulna, elbow hit my head. I don't think I broke my head, but I do feel like it had a negative impact on me. and I've had my bouldering injuries, you know, so, yeah, I haven't had an ice climbing injury yet.
00:20:51:22 - 00:21:01:20
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, save that one for last.
00:21:01:20 - 00:21:14:00
Unknown
to the fact that, you know, you're still climbing. You're so passionate about it, you just jump back on the horse, you know, you're you're you're even discussing here. You know, your femurs exploded and you're picking out, like, holds on Astro man.
00:21:14:01 - 00:21:24:18
Unknown
You know, what was that process getting back from injury like for you? And why do you think you still just have this, like driving passion for climbing despite these kind of traumatic incidents for yourself?
00:21:25:06 - 00:21:53:14
Unknown
That's a good question. I think I was able to rebound from those various injuries because I really put a lot of focus on trying to analyze things in my life, and especially in climbing. I've got this theory that you should be learning something new every single day. You climb, and that is how you progress and maintain safety, or at least, the ability for safety.
00:21:53:16 - 00:22:04:12
Unknown
And so with these injuries, you know, I had a lot of time to think about them, you know, and what went and what went wrong. And
00:22:04:12 - 00:22:18:14
Unknown
in almost all of knowing all of them, it was me being a little sloppy, you know, taking a risk I didn't need to take. And I think there's calculated risk and there's, calculated risk.
00:22:18:15 - 00:22:49:17
Unknown
And I think calculated risk is really something that you should just always be active. You're always calculating the risk as you're going. But an, calculated risk is something where you're not thinking about it, you're just kind of doing something and you're relying on your intuition or your past experience. And the more experience you have, the more you can just kind of have a natural flow of not having to think about safety, but being safe.
00:22:50:08 - 00:23:15:11
Unknown
So I was I think I was able to bounce back from these injuries because I just put a lot more time into focusing on being safe at all times, and then that allowed me to have more, you know, experience. And with the more experience, I feel far more comfortable. You know, I feel like in each of those disciplines, you know, I learned a big lesson in that, a climbing fall.
00:23:15:13 - 00:23:42:15
Unknown
And, that's probably what hurt me in the fall. It in what? Hurt me in that aid. Climbing fall is probably the same thing that I've done countless times before. That that was just the time that it bit me. But I can definitely say that since then, I don't think I've taken such calculated risks. So my passion has always been climbing.
00:23:42:16 - 00:24:07:21
Unknown
And so once I feel a little bit safer to, that I have things in control, then I'm happy. And so like in the sport climbing world, that that's trad climbing, ed climbing in the sport climbing world. Well, I've coincidentally fallen in love with vaulting sport routes. There's a whole massive reasons. there's a whole massive amount of reasons why I love vaulting sport routes.
00:24:07:23 - 00:24:36:19
Unknown
But one of those is that I can make it safe for me and safe for my friends. if I think there's any risk. Yeah, I'll spend the money and put in an extra bolt. the real downside to that is that some people will call me chickenshit for putting in an extra bolt here. but, like, whatever, I've had my injuries, and, most of the people who might call me chickenshit for putting in, you know, too many bolts in a route.
00:24:36:21 - 00:24:59:12
Unknown
Most of them haven't had their injury yet. and once you have your injury, you think, you know, maybe I don't want to put my limbs on the edge every single weekend. You know, sometimes you just want to go out and have fun and enjoy the company of your friends. And sometimes you want to go in the mountains and have a crazy epic, and I, I enjoy that too.
00:24:59:14 - 00:25:03:10
Unknown
But nowadays I, I ensure that that's far more calculated.
00:25:05:17 - 00:25:06:09
Unknown
Oh yeah,
00:25:06:09 - 00:25:18:01
Unknown
So I was 16 years old. I've been trad climbing for two years and thought that I knew everything. unfortunately, as a high schooler, you know, just climbing with my other friends.
00:25:18:01 - 00:25:42:16
Unknown
Also, in high school, I didn't have any mentors. And I thought that I could just get away with just reading the book, learning at cover to cover. And therefore I know everything I need to go out there and sure, I'd climb. Well, it turned out that I didn't, and I went out. I was out lovers Leap, and I, made a really, really, really dumb mistake, and took, took a 60ft fall.
00:25:42:16 - 00:26:14:04
Unknown
No gear ripped. but that's because I was so young and dumb. I didn't have much gear to put in anyway. I was just run it out because cams are expensive. and, anyway, so had to self rescue from, the top of the second pitch. Oh, it was, Harvey Wall bang or left or right. I can't remember one of the kids routes, you know.
00:26:14:06 - 00:26:33:05
Unknown
yeah, it was. It wasn't even a climb. climbing it was an anchor error. and I was, you know, I, I was so afraid to tell anybody about it for years. The real reason why I fell, you know, because it was just so stupid.
00:26:33:05 - 00:26:33:10
Unknown
Do you
00:26:35:02 - 00:26:38:06
Unknown
Why not? If it get somebody else not to make the same mistake?
00:26:51:00 - 00:26:52:20
Unknown
It was one decision.
00:27:00:02 - 00:27:00:15
Unknown
Yeah.
00:27:00:15 - 00:27:14:23
Unknown
one of the trad climbing books that I read to, learn how to trad climb. it said that you could tie a loop of webbing with water knot or a double fisherman's knot.
00:27:15:01 - 00:27:50:10
Unknown
Well, I learned that day that that is not correct. if you tie a loop of webbing, you have to use water, not, and so, anyway, so I tied a, personal tether. You know, they called in a cow tail at the time. now it's a piece of, obviously, bit of an upgrade nowadays, but, anyway, so one of the things you learn trad climbing is that you always want to place your first piece of gear, clip your rope into it, then build your anchor.
00:27:50:12 - 00:28:17:01
Unknown
Well, I was young and dumb and I didn't realize. And so I was chilling on a very comfortable ledge, and I built the whole anchor and and it was a great anchor. And then I clipped my cow tail into it. And then I didn't clip the rope in because I was young and dumb and nobody taught me. And, so I was holding on to the, holding on to the, the cow tail there and, or the piece
00:28:17:01 - 00:28:24:14
Unknown
and I lean back and I was about to call off belay and I thought, you know, I should probably test my anchor before I call off belay.
00:28:24:16 - 00:28:52:00
Unknown
And, so when I let go of the cow tail, it the not just one, and it just fizzled. And, my last piece of gear was like, 25ft below me because it was an easy it was A58. And like, super comfortable. And I only owned eight cams at the time. Eight cams and a set of nuts. So, so, yeah, the knot fizzled and I, I went flying
00:28:52:00 - 00:29:03:02
Unknown
and thankfully you still have me on belay, but I went down the slab and, waiting for me somewhere along that slab was just this little, like one two inch ledge.
00:29:03:04 - 00:29:17:02
Unknown
And, so, you know, taking big slab whips is like, super, you know, like, whoa, that's a cool badass. But to me, I'm terrified of, you know.
00:29:17:02 - 00:29:19:00
Unknown
don't want to know them.
00:29:19:00 - 00:29:23:18
Unknown
Yeah, I mean, I, I'm not into, like, run out slab anymore.
00:29:23:18 - 00:29:37:21
Unknown
after that, I was over it, because, I mean, it's just a little 1 or 2 inch ledge and that, my ankle hit it and my my foot went entirely backwards.
00:29:37:23 - 00:30:00:10
Unknown
yeah. And then it, like, almost instantly swelled up like a grapefruit. And it was just like, looking down at my foot all just mangled backwards. And, and it was entirely avoidable. I mean, it was just a series of stupid mistakes because I didn't have a mentor and I was young and thought, oh, yeah, I know everything about this.
00:30:00:10 - 00:30:09:17
Unknown
I read all the books and that kind of goes back to my, my thing. If you don't know what you don't know, if you don't know that, you don't know it. It's
00:30:09:17 - 00:30:21:12
Unknown
I think nowadays it's not as popular to have mentors. And I think it has something to do with the fact that it's so much easier to learn from Instagram or YouTube.
00:30:21:13 - 00:30:43:07
Unknown
I mean, when I started climbing, yeah, you read a book, therefore you didn't need a mentor, right? And I was totally wrong. And nowadays you can learn from people on Instagram, which is fantastic, but it's no substitute for having a trusted partner who will put your life in their hands and really guide you.
00:30:43:07 - 00:30:45:04
Unknown
And so,
00:30:45:04 - 00:30:56:07
Unknown
I mean, that's something I really, really advocate for is, you know, if you're new, just accept the fact that you're new and it's totally okay to be new, like we were all new.
00:30:56:09 - 00:31:23:02
Unknown
Just ask somebody to help you. And if you're experienced, just remember what it was like to be new and find that person and go help them and guide them and like, make them and their safety your responsibility. But unfortunately, it's really easy not to do that, even for myself, because sometimes I'm like, I just want to go out and work on the project, you know?
00:31:23:04 - 00:31:39:15
Unknown
And so even I need to be reminded that, like, we need to be mentoring people because those injuries that I had were entirely unnecessary and stupid and expensive, and I still have lingering issues from those injuries.
00:31:39:15 - 00:31:42:20
Unknown
I would imagine so. Yeah. I mean, both of those are pretty.
00:31:42:20 - 00:31:55:17
Unknown
Yeah.
00:31:55:17 - 00:32:23:09
Unknown
I, I don't think that any of those falls change my trust in gear at all, actually, the piece of gear that ripped on me on the aid climbing fall that was in a little sawed off angle pen scar, which kind of like, looks like a little cube. You know, little cube missing from the wall. It's like you don't really expect that many cams to fit in there perfectly.
00:32:23:11 - 00:32:49:22
Unknown
and I remember I tried, like, six different cams and all the different orientations and then said, that one's good. and so it's like, I wouldn't expect that cam to hold that. So it doesn't make me too worried about other cam placements. and back here at home, we have a trad climbing area called Sumac State Park, and, I did a climbing guide guidebook for it a while back.
00:32:50:00 - 00:33:15:20
Unknown
And, part of writing that guidebook, I went out there and did all these crazy trad climbs. I mean, like, it's the place is full of R and X-rated trad climbs, and this is all been, not that long after breaking my femur. I just b started doing those about four years after the femur injury. And, so I definitely have, you know, the comfort there.
00:33:15:20 - 00:33:50:06
Unknown
But my biggest fear weakness in, trusting equipment is, for some reason, when I'm sport climbing, I don't know why, but I'll be up there in the crux and I'll think, am I still on belay? And I, like, look down and it's just like, what are you thinking? Duh, you know, or I have these weird thoughts, like, like, even though I've taken thousands of whips, thousands, you know, and every whip that broke a bone, you know, the rope caught me.
00:33:50:06 - 00:33:59:05
Unknown
I still, like their ropes. Don't catch falls. You know, it's so stupid. You know?
00:34:25:19 - 00:34:27:02
Unknown
Yeah.
00:34:34:18 - 00:34:40:14
Unknown
I like hearing you say that because I agree fully. And I think that's because
00:34:40:14 - 00:35:02:06
Unknown
I spent so much of my climbing trying to do just pure volume and just trying to just pure on site everything. And with, So I never pushed myself and, and. Yeah. And it's a little strange. I actually do also do a little bit of soloing as well.
00:35:02:12 - 00:35:07:11
Unknown
And so I try to climb with that mentality. And I think my fear of falling,
00:35:07:11 - 00:35:24:19
Unknown
I have a unfortunate fear of falling. And, and I think that that fear actually helps me on site a lot. Like a lot of times people like, wow, you're so strong, I can't believe you unsighted that wow. And I'm like, no, it's because I'm terrified, you know?
00:35:24:19 - 00:35:29:11
Unknown
It's like this because I'm like, I don't want to fall out of.
00:35:48:12 - 00:35:50:10
Unknown
Right.
00:35:50:10 - 00:35:53:10
Unknown
I'm not really trying to like, push myself that hard.
00:35:53:11 - 00:35:59:00
Unknown
Like, you know, I already went through an injury, so it's like, I'm just going to do everything humanly possible
00:36:00:16 - 00:36:06:03
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:06:05 - 00:36:11:05
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:11:07 - 00:36:12:17
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:20:09 - 00:36:40:15
Unknown
I think that feels kind of more pure, you know? Isn't that kind of more of, like, the heart of climbing is, like, give it the whole fight. And no falling, but, yeah.
00:36:40:17 - 00:36:42:23
Unknown
Yeah.
00:36:42:23 - 00:36:44:18
Unknown
then that's an issue. But.
00:36:59:14 - 00:37:02:18
Unknown
that's what I was just thinking. There.
00:37:09:07 - 00:37:12:01
Unknown
Yeah.
00:37:50:10 - 00:37:52:09
Unknown
Yeah.
00:37:52:14 - 00:38:08:00
Unknown
Yeah. And that's, I think now. So my goal here in Northern California is to climb every single route in northwestern California. And right now I'm at like 84%, I think. yeah.
00:38:10:14 - 00:38:25:09
Unknown
I think it's, I think I have like two huge. Yeah. I think we have like 15 or 1600 routes in my guidebook and I've done.
00:38:25:09 - 00:38:50:02
Unknown
Yeah, 84% of them. and so I have a personal rule for myself, and this is just for me. And my happiness is once I've sent a route, I don't allow myself to return and climb that route for three years. it sounds super silly, but the reason why I do it for myself is it forces me to get out and do other stuff.
00:38:50:04 - 00:39:19:02
Unknown
And so it gets me out to new cliffs, to new adventures. I can learn more. so I feel like I really can, like, broaden my skill set, and it's been very effective. so all that's left for me now, or fortunately or unfortunately, like the really hard routes. So my, my speed of going through them is obviously slowed down, but all the hard routes are steep and clean.
00:39:19:02 - 00:39:37:09
Unknown
So I'm finally like getting to enjoy falls, you know, for the first time. because everything that's left is, 13 and, there are a few fourteens, but, you know, I'm not going to look at those yet. Yeah.
00:39:37:09 - 00:39:58:09
Unknown
So I, I think we've done, a great job at, like, rounding out your experience as a climber and kind of, like, diving into your mentality on gear, and you've, you know, painted this picture of a foundation of, like, learning through traumatic injuries. so talk to us about your, your cleaver project.
00:39:58:11 - 00:40:03:11
Unknown
you know, you recently just, you know. Yeah. Talk to us about that objective and kind of, you know,
00:40:04:22 - 00:40:28:23
Unknown
Yeah, sure. So the cleaver is in probably my favorite canyon in all of Utah. it's just this, like, really quiet, peaceful canyon. And there aren't that many available lines to be climbed. when you try to find routes in that canyon, you got to, like, really
00:40:28:23 - 00:40:45:01
Unknown
That's it for today's episode. Everybody, I want to extend a huge thank you to Evan for coming on the show to share his story. And thank you, listeners, for tuning in. If you'd like to learn more about Evan and his roots, check out the links in our show notes. One final thing. We need your help. Please share this podcast with your friends.
00:40:45:03 - 00:40:57:19
Unknown
Word of mouth is the best way to support the show. Plus, don't forget you can watch our full episodes on YouTube. Until then, keep exploring. Stay safe. And as always, thanks for being a part of the climbing majority. See you in two weeks.
