Today we are sitting down with my good friend Bryce. Funny enough, I met Bryce before either of us were climbers. We each found climbing separately, but inevitably we roped up and quickly became a great team. Recently, Bryce and I spent a weekend trad climbing in Red Rock Canyon. Despite not climbing together for several years, getting out on the rock in red-rocks felt just as fun, and natural as before. We may change and the environment changes but our friendships endure.
In our conversation, we talk about fatherhood and how it changed Bryce’s relationship with climbing, how he chooses his objectives, and the kind of partners he climbs with. We talk about the fine line between safety and total catastrophe, and how trust, mindfulness, and communication keep us alive. And finally we discuss the ethics involved in sharing classic climbs in super popular areas.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Today we are sitting down with my good friend Bryce. Funny enough, I met Bryce before either of us were climbers. We each found climbing separately, but inevitably we roped up and quickly became a great team. Recently, Bryce and I spent a weekend trad climbing in Red Rock Canyon. Despite not climbing together for several years, getting out on the rock in red-rocks felt just as fun, and natural as before. We may change and the environment changes but our friendships endure.
In our conversation, we talk about fatherhood and how it changed Bryce’s relationship with climbing, how he chooses his objectives, and the kind of partners he climbs with. We talk about the fine line between safety and total catastrophe, and how trust, mindfulness, and communication keep us alive. And finally we discuss the ethics involved in sharing classic climbs in super popular areas.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:24:17
Unknown
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:26:08 - 00:00:35:09
Unknown
Today we're sitting down with my good friend Bryce. Funny enough, I met Bryce before either of us were climbers. We each found climbing separately, but inevitably we roped up and
00:00:35:09 - 00:00:48:02
Unknown
quickly became a great team. Recently, Bryce and I spent a week in tread climbing in Red Rock Canyon. Despite not climbing together for several years, getting out on the rock and Red Rocks felt just as fun and natural as before.
00:00:48:04 - 00:01:11:12
Unknown
We made change as people and the environment may change around us, but our friendships endear. In our conversation, we talk about fatherhood and how it changed Bryce's relationship with climbing, how he chooses his objectives and the kind of partners he climbs with. We talk about the fine line between safety and total catastrophe and how trust, mindfulness and communication keep us alive.
00:01:11:14 - 00:01:19:21
Unknown
And finally, we discuss the ethics involved in sharing classic climbs in super popular areas.
00:01:28:19 - 00:01:50:08
Unknown
All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Climbing Majority podcast. We are sitting down here with a good friend of mine. We just had a big climbing weekend. We've been climbing together for several years and knew each other before we were both climbers. Bryce, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, guys. Pleasure. Definitely, man.
00:01:50:09 - 00:02:08:11
Unknown
Happy to. To make this work. Yeah. I mean, you know, let's just dive into it. I want to hear about how you found climbing. You know what? What about the sport? Called to you? You know, maybe some events in your life that kind of, like, let you know, we all kind of have these things where climbing clicks with us for certain reasons.
00:02:08:13 - 00:02:44:11
Unknown
So just kind of walk us through that. Sure. Yeah. So I found found climbing in late 2019. I was I had been, you know, had various things in my life before that had found substances and then found sobriety from substances and then got married and then but still didn't really have like a primary hobby or anything. And I had listened to a podcast and they had mentioned I and the host or the guest was talking about spray walls and just climbing in general.
00:02:44:11 - 00:02:58:09
Unknown
And I was like, that sounds kind of cool. And then coincidentally, a couple of friends of mine, like that weekend were like, Hey, do you want to go to the climbing gym with us? And I was like, Yeah, actually that's funny. I had just heard about it and it sounds fun, so let's do it. So they took me to the gym.
00:02:58:10 - 00:03:16:05
Unknown
I immediately got a membership, recruited a buddy of mine from work, just start going with me. And he was also a brand new climber. So he and I kind of got into it together at the gym. And then my those same friends that got me into it said, Hey, do you want to go climb outside with us? Took me out to Dixon Lake.
00:03:16:07 - 00:03:41:11
Unknown
We did, I think. But Hole Express was my first outdoor climb ever. Then I jumped on white crack. Also, just just a little local crag where I'm from in Escondido. And it was awesome. I was hooked. I loved outdoor even more than the gym, and I'm just the type that when I get into something, I kind of go pretty hard and yeah, I just was hooked.
00:03:41:11 - 00:04:09:06
Unknown
So started climbing outside as much as I could with them, and the rest was history. What about climbing outside? Do you like did you have an experience with, like, outdoor activities, hiking, camping? Like, was your family outdoorsy or like, was this kind of like a first big exploration into outdoor activities? I always camped as a kid. We would do lots of road trips up to Montana and camp all along the way.
00:04:09:06 - 00:04:30:09
Unknown
And so the camping and outdoor. I was also at home a lot with my dad when I was a kid. I learned to hate hiking at a really young age and just sitting out in the cold for a very long time. I would go like out elk hunting in Utah and it'd be just brutal cold and you just sit there for 8 hours waiting for an animal to walk by.
00:04:30:11 - 00:04:49:09
Unknown
So all that aside, I did a lot of time in the outdoors as a kid, but never really found like a passion in it. And then, Yeah, but even before I started climbing, though, I started getting into hiking more. I was coming off a long history of just playing lots of video games and sitting inside all the time.
00:04:49:09 - 00:05:09:03
Unknown
And I think it was just time that it finally clicked that I was like, This isn't what I want to do all the time. And so I started hiking a lot. And then shortly after found climbing, it was like, yeah, hiking is only fun if you're getting to somewhere cool as a result. So I still do a lot of hiking, but for a different reason.
00:05:09:05 - 00:05:29:11
Unknown
But yeah, no, I don't know. What about outdoor climbing? Drew me to it. I think it was just fun and novel and, you know, I was have always been attracted to climbing on ropes, getting high off the ground and just, you know, doing what big objective kind of stuff, even from the very beginning, it was like what I was drawn to.
00:05:29:11 - 00:05:47:05
Unknown
And so, yeah, I think just like the novelty of it. Yeah. You know, the funny thing, at least in in my small social circle circle that, that No, you as well, it's like this the story, it's like, you know, Bryce gets into climbing and he's immediately, you know, climbing 11 track. But at least that's what it feels like to us.
00:05:47:07 - 00:06:12:12
Unknown
So talk to us a little bit about your progression. You know, I think that compared to most people, I would say it was pretty fast. So, you know, correct me if I'm wrong or explain and or explain your progression to kind of where you are now as a climber. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it was just the fact that I was just a go getter and I just wanted to learn everything I could.
00:06:12:12 - 00:06:31:22
Unknown
And so, like, really early on, I think I started climbing at the gym in like October of 2019. And for Christmas, all I wanted was like a 70 meter rope, like a show, you know, do my own stuff and not rely on my friends and I just YouTube videos of how to repel, how to do this and that.
00:06:31:22 - 00:06:51:11
Unknown
And but I'll tell you, the first repeller I ever did was at Dixon Lake, and I was with my wife and I knew nothing. And I only had an ATV because I used it at the gym and a 70 meter rope and I was like, I'm going to go repeller. So I go and I find this cool overhanging roof at Dixon.
00:06:51:13 - 00:07:10:18
Unknown
Except it didn't have any springs. It didn't have wings, it didn't have anything. It was just Bolt and me not knowing any better. I just ran the rope straight through the bolt and wrapped off. It was like super nerve racking. But I got to the bottom. I was like, Cool. That went really good. And later I was telling my buddy who taught me how to climb outside and he's like, yeah.
00:07:10:18 - 00:07:30:14
Unknown
Like, you went straight through the bolt. Like, that's that's not good. So I think I was a little too ambitious at times, but I think it also just led to me putting in a lot of mileage early on, my same buddy Miccio that I got into the gym with me and I got him to start going outdoors with me.
00:07:30:16 - 00:07:55:00
Unknown
I got super stoked on Multipage cause you know, why not? I'm not even higher. So we went out to Courtney Madeira, and it was first of our it was both of our first time doing a multipage. And we did sunset streaks and you have to wrap in a start. And so we go wrap in and I think it was like our second repel ever on a multi pitch and our rope got stuck and we kind of just figured it out.
00:07:55:00 - 00:08:21:01
Unknown
Luckily it ended up getting unstuck. But I guess all that's to say, like, I just, just kind of would do as much research as I needed to do to feel confident, and then I would just go out there and do it. And I was always happy to be like a leader, even though I was a little green. But eventually those same friends Zach and Deb, that got me into outdoor climbing.
00:08:21:03 - 00:08:39:14
Unknown
Zach and his brother took me out to Joshua Tree and that was like my first like, wow experience where I just truly got inspired. But I haven't been doing much camping or anything at that time. So they're like, Hey, you want to go for the weekend? I'm like, Heck yeah, let's go. I go out there. I realized I forgot my sleeping bag.
00:08:39:15 - 00:09:01:19
Unknown
And so I pretty much froze. Like the whole time we were out there. They both were like, far more experienced than me, but they were both like, wanting to climb like, five or to five thick stuff. And we ended up getting on this weird. It was kind of it was like the first night we were there, we were trying to find this one climb that was like probably a five, seven or something.
00:09:01:19 - 00:09:25:06
Unknown
And we ended up on this like minus super grainy slab climb. Both. And obviously sport climbs in Joshua Tree aren't exactly friendly to the beginner leader, but I was like, Yeah, I'll go for it. Sure. And I remember just doing these like gecko hand moves, like just hanging on to little crystals and like learning to slab climb for the first time.
00:09:25:06 - 00:09:48:10
Unknown
And I on sighted this ten minus and was like, I should have been like completely freaked out I think. But it was like, wow, that was really cool. And I took my first trad lead there. I did. Nektar It's like a54 up on Isle in the Sky by British Fire. And then that was when I saw Bird of Fire for the first time, and it was just like so inspiring.
00:09:48:12 - 00:10:07:03
Unknown
There was some young kid who's probably like 15 timing with his dad and he just like blew up that, Wow, that looks so cool. And I remember talking to his dad and I was like, yeah, you guys climb in that, then climb. And he's like, yeah, it's not really that thin. And at the time I was like, Well, okay, whatever, you know.
00:10:07:05 - 00:10:35:12
Unknown
But now I understand a little bit where he was coming from and, but yeah, it was just really cool that Joshua Tree trip definitely sparked my fire for Chad, and I was set on learning how to do it. And like I said, just keep going out and learning and getting shut down on that Mount Woodson. But I kept going back and and yeah, eventually have had some cool stories to tell from it.
00:10:35:16 - 00:10:58:00
Unknown
So what's like you're a lure into into climbing just from like, like do you find that it's more about like a means to an end to seek adventure or do you really, really enjoy challenging yourself? And of course there's a spectrum there. But yeah, I think it's mostly I don't think it's a means to an end. I think it's just enjoying the the actual climbing.
00:10:58:00 - 00:11:17:13
Unknown
Like the act of climbing is fun, but adventure and suffering, there's something weird about suffering that you hate it while you're doing it. And then as soon as you're done, a week goes by and you're like, I really want to do that again. Like, that was that was heinous. But, yeah, let's see if we can schedule that again.
00:11:17:18 - 00:11:44:00
Unknown
So, I forget exactly what you're asking, but I think no, I think that was perfect. I mean, it makes me think like, God, I think Jimmy Chin and like, Mary was quoted, like, the best climbers are the ones with the shortest memories, you know, like, pretty true. Yeah. So go have the most awful experience. And then for some reason, it's like, you know, this, like, transcending experience that you feel fulfilled and just satisfied in life.
00:11:44:00 - 00:12:03:16
Unknown
And then a week later, you forget all the bad things and only the good aspects of it. And let's do that again. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like the combination of the mental fortitude that it takes and the mental workout as well as well as the physical. It's like combining both of those just for a really full experience.
00:12:03:21 - 00:12:25:22
Unknown
And, you know, I think that one nice thing too is like as far as I mean, I'm 35, I'm not young, not old, I would say, but I tend to be less and less motivated to work out as like, you know, now I will get into it later, but I got a couple of kids and I work a desk job now and it's really hard to find the motivation to just go out and stay in shape.
00:12:26:00 - 00:12:48:02
Unknown
But when you have an awesome hobby that you're just completely stoked on, you have no problem doing a two hour approach up at Boulder Field and sweating your butt off and feeling miserable because yeah, it's the means to an end. So in that sense, I think it's just really healthy. having something to passionate about. I think that's a really, really interesting point.
00:12:48:02 - 00:13:06:08
Unknown
Like I'm, you know, I'm, I'm, I just turned 30, you know, the last several weeks for me were really, really busy. I hadn't been in a good exercise schedule, you know, I wasn't eating well. I was too stressed out, all that kind of stuff. And and like, I know for myself, like, I want to be a dad, you know, like.
00:13:06:08 - 00:13:31:06
Unknown
Like Ray and I, my partner, we talk about that, like having kids. And I sometimes think I'm like, how am I going to continue to do this and like, you know, deal with kids and all these other things in my life like that seems like such an interesting challenge. But ultimately, I also think like, it is kind of like a challenge, like you can maybe find a way to optimize, to still have some balance in your life.
00:13:31:06 - 00:13:55:09
Unknown
Like, of course it's not like every like 25 with very little responsibility and you just go climb six days a week or something like life changes for sure. But what, what is that been like navigating that for yourself? Like how do. Well, I found I found climbing after I was married and so my wife didn't know I was going to be climbing obsessed when she married me.
00:13:55:11 - 00:14:13:15
Unknown
So early on. When I got super into it, it was. It's a hard hobby, too. You know, San Diego's not a bad place to be a climber, but it's also not the best place to be a climber. The best place to be a climber is in your van living at the Crag. So I got super stoked on that dream.
00:14:13:17 - 00:14:35:04
Unknown
But my wife's definitely a homebody and we had to come to terms with that balance and I think it's good because it keeps, you know, I love my marriage, I love my wife and having something besides, if it wasn't for that, like I might have just been so obsessed with climbing that like, like you said, I want to do it six days a week and getting into it in your thirties, your body's not able to do that.
00:14:35:04 - 00:14:58:21
Unknown
And so you have to take rest days and having something to do on the rest days is is really good too. And I'm experiencing that four fold now, having two young kids. I got two under two right now and that's been a huge change. I can look at like my Tick History on Mountain project and I was putting in the miles for sure.
00:14:58:23 - 00:15:30:01
Unknown
2021 was like the first year I really was climbing a lot outside. And then 2022 is definitely slowed down when I had my first kid. So but even that said, like it's it's so great to have something besides like to have two passions now, you know, I got my family, I got my climbing. and recently I busted my, my finger, my ring finger on my left hand is like, exactly the same time as my second son was born.
00:15:30:01 - 00:15:54:04
Unknown
And normally that would have just destroyed me, like, mentally and been, like, such a bummer because I took two months off from climbing. But I actually found it super enjoyable to take the break. And I found that, like my family time was even more precious and just more the rest of my life was even more enjoyable. And during that time, even without climbing and that's something that I wouldn't have expected beforehand.
00:15:54:04 - 00:16:22:19
Unknown
So balance is really good, even though I do go pretty all into this stuff. One thing you said to me that made sense or that kind of was an interesting perspective was how this, you know, how your marriage and how having kids and how having a life outside of climbing has shaped the objectives that you choose. You know, it's you said it kind of made you a bit more choosy and you're like, I, you know, have to plan a little bit more.
00:16:22:19 - 00:16:56:03
Unknown
You're like, If I'm going to spend my time away from my family, I want to be doing something that really inspires me. Talk to us a little bit about that and and how that how your your fatherhood and your, you know, being a parent has shaped how you choose and view climbing. Yeah. So when I was, you know, super gung ho before kids and just all I wanted to do is climb you look at Mountain Project, you look at YouTube, Instagram, all these people climbing all over the world and you're like, Man, there's so much rock out there I will never be able to climb at all.
00:16:56:05 - 00:17:20:08
Unknown
And that's kind of like hopeless feeling because all you, you know, you just, you see all these amazing places. And even though, you know, my wife and I did lots of road trips and I got to see some amazing climbing places, I mean, for being only a two, three year climber at that time. Like, I had really explored quite a lot of like the Western U.S. and and destinations.
00:17:20:10 - 00:17:40:19
Unknown
But I still just always felt like, man, I'm just never going to be able to climb everything I want to. But now that I have kids, it's I don't really have that desire anymore to just climb everything. It's like I have certain things that are the most inspiring and that, you know, those are the things that I will dedicate the time for.
00:17:40:21 - 00:18:04:03
Unknown
But because my time is so valuable and because I enjoy my time with my family so much, it's like, yeah, even leaving for two days is a lot. When like that's time that I don't get to spend with them. So I think I like staying. I just I'm much more objective focused and I base my year, my trips like scheduling out for 2024.
00:18:04:03 - 00:18:23:03
Unknown
It's like, okay, let's what are the 3 to 5 most inspiring things? And it's not necessarily like objectives like grade wise, but just like cool stuff that's been on my list forever and I really just try to put my focus on that. Whereas in the past you got to just like, cool, I got two days off work.
00:18:23:03 - 00:18:44:22
Unknown
I'll go out to here, I got three days off work, I'll go, you know, just every single chance you get at kind of that, that doesn't happen as much anymore. So yeah, choosing your, your climbs wisely. And I think it's also made me value partners a lot more because in the past it was like, yeah, I'll just go climb with whoever because I just want to get Miles.
00:18:44:22 - 00:19:14:04
Unknown
But now it's like, I really want that experience. Now I really want it to be full value, fun, safe, you know, there's you got to take risks. Risk takes a whole new approach. Having kids do that, that kind of shape, shape my climbing, it didn't really slow me down, I would say, but it definitely just added another level of contemplation and and another factor that goes into like me, while I'm climbing or what I'm choosing to climb.
00:19:14:06 - 00:19:44:08
Unknown
So what is what does partners and choosing partners look like now? Like, do you have someone that you climb with regularly? Are you searching for people on Mountain Project? Like what does that look like for, you know, I have a few like main partners, the partners that I have our great I just I guess it seems like you could always use more really good partners and I've had a couple partners here and there that come and go, whether they move.
00:19:44:08 - 00:20:09:21
Unknown
I had a really good buddy, Josh King, moved to Salt Lake City. I had a really good partner, Cam, who just kind of lost interest in Chad and and then I have a couple other partners. I think Evan was recently on the pod. He's one of my main San Diego partners. We climb a lot and then I find with you handful of times and have had awesome experiences every time.
00:20:09:23 - 00:20:32:16
Unknown
but yeah, I guess in the past I would just. I have two days to climb here. Go on Mountain project. Who can go climb with me? And now that just doesn't sound as fun. I would rather trust that it's going to be a good experience every time and partners are super important for that. So valuing fun safety and just just people that you vibe with for sure.
00:20:32:16 - 00:20:50:07
Unknown
It is cool to build like a community of people not only locally but like nationally where you're like, Hey, I'm in town, you know, and they're psyched to climb with you. And it's like, you know, you get to rekindle that partnership and, you know, it's just kind of like you're back to that Mountain Partnership right away, even though you spent a lot of time away from each other or whatever, it's just kind of like clicked.
00:20:50:07 - 00:21:21:07
Unknown
So it's cool to have that network of people. One thing I was talking about recently is with my wife is like, I have a lot of friends like that, don't claim that are great friends. I really value them. But there's something about a climbing partner that you just spend so much time together and like when you're on a wall with somebody for 8 hours or if you're on a weekend trip or whatever, like you're just with that person for so long, it's not really about like the substance, it's not really about what you talk about, it's about the experience.
00:21:21:09 - 00:21:58:07
Unknown
And I think that just builds like a super deep connection and that it's like a hold. It's a great friendship, but it's also like a different friendship. It's really cool. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting thing. But and I think in part it's suffering and in certain experiences there's a degree of vulnerability and it also just tends to completely eviscerate the superficial bullshit of the world, you know, like I don't really care about whatever such and such thing that was slightly bothering me back home when I haven't had like a glass of water in 3 hours.
00:21:58:12 - 00:22:18:14
Unknown
You know, I feel like crap in my pants, you know, And it's like and you get to, like, suffer and experience that with somebody I and like, just I feel like that kind of like bond you can build with people going through that and also being in a circumstance where you're legitimately trusting your life like it's not like metaphorical or I would trust my life to you as a person.
00:22:18:14 - 00:22:54:16
Unknown
It's like I literally am putting my life in your hands as my partner. And that's also like this really interesting kind of bond that you build. And yeah, I think I think climbing is just such an interesting way to experience the world and also to build these really, really tight bonds with people and experience things. And I think I think Kyle and I are both laughing that you saying that because yesterday we had that exact experience, we, we climbed eagle dance yesterday and we were the same old Gregory rapping and on one of the raps it was a rope stretcher and we were both super aware we were watching and the whole time.
00:22:54:16 - 00:23:17:06
Unknown
So it wasn't like it was actually sketchy, but Kyle just called it. We didn't tie knots on the end and Kyle just called it out and he said, I'm like six feet away from killing both of us. And it just it wasn't it again, it wasn't like a surprise. It wasn't like we had a close encounter. But you're that close to the end of, you know, both of us going off.
00:23:17:06 - 00:23:45:02
Unknown
And so it's just that you always have to be mindful. You can never get complacent and you just have to trust your partner. And Kyle kept both alive. Yeah, it is interesting. And I think I think about it too, like when you're driving a car, like, you know, everybody drives a car every day and you're a split second away from just like sorry everybody else and to making a left turn and just like running into people and like, you know, like you could kill people.
00:23:45:02 - 00:24:01:05
Unknown
You could kill yourself with a second decision. Like, you're you're driving a death machine. And it's the same thing with climbing. And it's like I was literally five feet away from the end of a rope with no, not and it's like, you know, that's how Brad Galbraith died. You know, his body wrapped off the end. And they both felt like, well, I hope he died.
00:24:01:05 - 00:24:24:04
Unknown
Unfortunately, anybody who wrapped up the end of his arrow didn't die, hit a shelf, which is a whole nother situation. But yeah, it's like not only in those situations where it's, you know, acutely obvious, like every time you clip your ass to the anchor, every time, you know, you build that an anchor, if it's there's these decisions you make every step of the way where you're just like a few decisions away from total catastrophe.
00:24:24:04 - 00:24:43:18
Unknown
And that's like the weird thing about climbing. It's like you can convince yourself that it's really safe and it is really safe until it's not, and then it's extremely deadly. It's like there's a cliff there of like safety and just everything's fucked. Yeah. So it's just like a really, really fine line to dance and I think this is an interesting point, too.
00:24:43:18 - 00:25:07:01
Unknown
Bryce, you were saying yesterday you had this feeling a little bit where you were just like the risk or the element of danger was a bit more heightened and you've had that experience before. It was just overwhelming on the top of the hourglass, on the brownstone wall. And yeah, it's like, you know, we have these moments where we can look around at the reality of the situation that we're in as climbers.
00:25:07:01 - 00:25:25:08
Unknown
It's like, you know, I'm hanging off the edge of a cliff. Like if anything falls or if anything doesn't work, I give this, you know, I trust I buy this nylon sling or this tiny sling. And I'm like, you know, that's the only thing that's attaching me to this wall. Like, you know, you can I have these visions in your brain of it just breaking all of a sudden and it's it's over.
00:25:25:10 - 00:25:55:03
Unknown
You know, the the line between safety and danger is just like, can be very apparent or we can, like, tune it out. It's all about our systems. It's just an interesting dance. I think there's another side to that coin, though, and you know, it perfectly ties into what you were talking about with driving a car as there are actually lots of things we do on a daily basis just operating in modern societies that are actually really, really dangerous, that we don't have a culture of like, you know, when's the last time you sat in your motor vehicle?
00:25:55:03 - 00:26:12:17
Unknown
In the morning. You're like, All right, statistically, this is really, really dangerous. Tons of people die. This is very you know, you have like you're like before leading the multipage, like safety talk or something with, like your body in your car, in the passenger seat, all make sure you're buckled up. And it's like nobody does that. It's so automated at this point.
00:26:12:17 - 00:26:35:14
Unknown
You just get it and you go, you totally take for granted that you're in like a steel rectangle that's moving like a missile. You know? And so like that is the other side of the coin that you can kind of like choose your risk in some ways, you know, And, and I think in climbing it's like, yeah, we calculate that risk and try and make it as safe as possible to have these really meaningful experiences.
00:26:35:14 - 00:26:52:21
Unknown
And I can't like name the amount of times I've thought in my life like, you know, I could just die tomorrow crossing the street by having like a bus run me over, you know, It's like, you know, it's like I don't like bank my life on that, but it's like sometimes where I'm like, maybe I shouldn't, like, do this thing.
00:26:52:21 - 00:27:17:12
Unknown
I'm like, I don't think I'm like, you know, I'm going to regret that when I'm 80, that I, like, chose to do that or try to have that experience, you know? Yeah. And I mean, climate is just so much about realizing the danger, realizing that there is risk involved, but then being able to like logically and consistently, like, parse out what what is real and what is perceive.
00:27:17:14 - 00:27:53:09
Unknown
And I think that's one of the things that I guess going back to how I progressed quickly was just being having a strong head game is so much of climbing and I don't know how you train your head game. I'm sure there's videos of like train yourself to fall and all this stuff, but I think when it really comes down to even the yesterday, like, like you mentioned how I said I was kind of in like a slight funk of like it was probably because I got my butt kicked on out of control yesterday, which was extremely hard, almost.
00:27:53:11 - 00:28:26:06
Unknown
But I think I was just physically tired too, and like, I'm not in as perfect shape as I wish I was and used to be or something. But as far as yeah, just a little like little more hesitant than normal and like at the Blaze thinking like, this is pretty crazy. We're like 500 feet up, you know, like, like you said, I'm on this nylon eight millimeter bass, like, okay, but, but then once you start climbing, like, I think you have that ability hopefully to just get rid of that and just climb and enjoy it and have fun because it is so fun.
00:28:26:08 - 00:28:52:02
Unknown
And, you know, if, if every, if the systems are in place, like the risk is very low. It's very, very low if, you know, unless you're leaning over your gear like you guys have, I guess I have to. I just yeah, I've been very fortunate. Like there's there's so many moments in climbing where, like, if you would have fallen, things could have been really bad, but you don't.
00:28:52:04 - 00:29:09:06
Unknown
And so, like a lot of safety in climbing lies and just not falling in general, it lowers your chances of things going wrong because you're not having to test the systems that you've put in place. And I think that that was one thing I learned early on in my climb wall, especially from my accident, was like head game was never my issue.
00:29:09:06 - 00:29:29:17
Unknown
I had the best head game like I could be, you know, over gear, you know, feeling really good. But the problem was that I had too much faith in one my climbing ability not to fall into too much faith in my own systems when I didn't do the research enough to, like, actually have a strong enough foundation to really know whether it's good or not.
00:29:29:19 - 00:29:48:15
Unknown
And so that that, you know, and I just every ever since my accident I like would go back and recount all the climbs I did and be like, okay, you know, like what if I had fallen here because I do a lot of GoPro footage and stuff and so I can like rewatch my climbs. And so, like, there's so many climbs where I look back, I'm just like, Goddammit, Kyle, like that is just janky.
00:29:48:17 - 00:30:05:01
Unknown
That would not have helped. Yeah, you're like, you're 25 feet past this janky nut and you're just, like, totally locked in, you know? And it's like there's a ledge 20 feet down. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like, Yeah. And then, like, instead of, like, you know, realizing the risk in the moment, I'm like, yeah, I linked pitch one or two with only ten pieces.
00:30:05:01 - 00:30:32:23
Unknown
I'm so sick, you know? So I just like the completely wrong mindset there. But yeah, it's just interesting to like have the head game because it can carry you really far. Like to just not be scared and to be focused and just proficient and athletic. Like you can get really, really far in climbing. But then the second you're not and things go wrong, you don't have that foundation of safety and understanding that, you know, whether you can or cannot fall is super, super important.
00:30:34:09 - 00:30:40:19
Unknown
If you've been enjoying the climbing majority, please rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:30:42:03 - 00:30:43:15
Unknown
Yeah I, I
00:30:43:15 - 00:31:04:02
Unknown
only have one like almost Dec story but I was it was right after my first son was born I was very sleep deprived. It was like my first outdoor trip in in a long time, you know, like a month or two or something. Then I go out to Joshua Tree with my buddy Josh, and we're like, Hey, we're going to do ten five tens in a day because I really want to get the most out of my day.
00:31:04:04 - 00:31:21:04
Unknown
And so I think this was like number three or four and we were doing clean and jerk. And of course we didn't pick a bunch of ten days like we were doing a ten the on our 1010 day, which was a lot anyways. But on clean and Jerk, you like climb up about 1015 feet you place to number one which is really good.
00:31:21:09 - 00:31:41:22
Unknown
And then you're supposed to start moving right. And I you know it was on siding. I was sleep deprived, had already climbed a bit. I think I woke up at two that morning because my son had woken up. So I like fed him and then just headed out and I totally had like a mental like panic mode that I've never really experienced before.
00:31:41:22 - 00:32:02:06
Unknown
And so I think it was just those factors. But I was supposed to move just right and like the place next placement was like within arm's reach to my right, like a 0.5 or a nut bomber. And instead I was just got focus looking straight up and left and it kind of got like I was like, man, there's no pro here and bargaining palms.
00:32:02:07 - 00:32:23:11
Unknown
So I tried to just like exit the climb out and left and there was nothing there. And I just got pumped out and fell off and I was like, my feet were probably at the peace or like a little higher than that. And I just swung and I remember just watching the boulders because it's kind of like bouldering at the bottom there, but it's pretty flat.
00:32:23:11 - 00:32:54:21
Unknown
But I just remember watching them like I just swung right over top of them near deck and I was like, Whoa, that was weird. Like, I have never panicked like that. And I almost just hit the deck and I took like 10 minutes or something. I shook it off and then I read it. But it was it was just that's my only that was like a really close I mean, man, that was super close to definitely busting my ankles and probably breaking a leg.
00:32:54:23 - 00:33:14:19
Unknown
And it was just, you know, I would have never thought that as I headed up onto this entity that I thought was well within my ability. It can happen fast. Yeah. Let's let's dive into out of control since, you know, we just we just kind of tease out a little bit. I'll preface this, you know, So Bryce came out, you know, we're we've been climbing a red rock the last two days.
00:33:14:21 - 00:33:36:07
Unknown
One thing I've learned about Bryce and I probably already knew this is I mean, just because, you know, limited timeframe, he's like, I needed I needed a lot of stuff. Like, we're going to we're going to hit a lot of pitches, really do a lot of mileage. And I'm like, you know, like, I don't know if my ankle can handle it, but I was psyched to go out and we did nine pitches the day one, and then we did ten pitches day two.
00:33:36:09 - 00:34:00:02
Unknown
So the most mileage I've done in two days since my accident, which was awesome. So I think you brace for that. And the second the first day, the last column we did is called Out of Control. And yeah, I mean Bryce took the lead on the onsite and Yeah, tell us, well, yeah, I mean it was 1030, it was a, seemed like a classic highly rated and we had done other ten plus tours.
00:34:00:02 - 00:34:17:10
Unknown
I think that at least one or maybe one think we did like a NC earlier in the day, though we both cruised up, so I wasn't really thinking much of it. I looked at the post and said Standard rack. And so I was like, okay, cool. I got a double rack. This will be totally fine. And it's lit.
00:34:17:10 - 00:34:57:22
Unknown
It's just this litter like .5.75 crack like 400, you know, it's phenomenal. But I definitely, I guess that was a little short on the point. Fives in .75 so they only had two and I also didn't realize that the off the crux the ten C crux is like an off with but NC off it's a lot different than ten C like base or finger cracks though I, I typically think of myself as a decent off with climber but I placed my I had one four with me luckily but I placed it pretty low below the bulge and then I got up into the Bulge and you know the number four was like a few feet
00:34:57:22 - 00:35:17:22
Unknown
below me and below my feet. I would say. And I'm like, I'm up and over this bulge. Like everything was great. But then once you get over the bulge, it's like a point five back that just like slopes away from you. So you're trying to like, reach way up above you and trying to get over this bulge, but it pinches down to like three or four inches.
00:35:17:22 - 00:35:36:04
Unknown
So you can't get your knee up through the off with. So you're having to like get your body away from the wall to to try to mantle up and get your knee over the bulge while you're reaching like as deep as you can into the point five crack in the back and the like pinching down. And my helmet kept like keeping me from getting further.
00:35:36:04 - 00:36:04:06
Unknown
And I just like for some reason could not get my knee over this bulge. And finally I was like, I was like, Hey, watch me here. And then I was still trying it and I was like, I'm just I'm pumped out. And I was like falling. And I was fully expecting to go pretty far. But as I slid down my arm, like my forearm got lodged in the, like the off with the bulge and it just caught me and I was like, cool.
00:36:04:08 - 00:36:31:02
Unknown
Not falling like, wow. And then from there I was able to down climb a little. I got like a super bomb knee like knee jam in the off with. And I just sat there on the knee jam for like 10 minutes. I'd be pumped. I down, climbed a little more, I retrieved my floor, I went back up and actually placed the floor in the bulge better protected and I somehow managed to get there was still super hard the second go.
00:36:31:04 - 00:36:53:22
Unknown
I think that was the closest throwing up I've ever been climbing. Like I was just so gassed. But I did it. I made it. But yeah, that was very unexpected. I was like, like a like you were saying, kind of sometimes you just, you know, super close to taking a big fall and you just don't expect it before you it even said, like, watch me or whatever.
00:36:53:22 - 00:37:14:08
Unknown
Like, I saw your feet, like skating on the face, like slipping in the off with. I'm like, fuck, this guy's going to come off like you're fucking ready. And it was like another minute and a half of that before you were like, you know, falling, you know, you were just like, going for it, man. It was sick to see that Took it out of me for sure.
00:37:14:10 - 00:37:39:18
Unknown
Yeah. Eight pitches up to that point too. So just like a full day. Another thing I thought was an interesting talking point from from that day was our experience on Birdland with the party at the base. I think that I don't know if we've talked about this, but like etiquette for multi pitch, especially on classic climbs where there tends to be, you know, the dreadful Congo line, you know.
00:37:39:18 - 00:37:58:15
Unknown
So talk to us a little bit about what happened when we showed up and kind of the decision processes in place that we made that day with the the people at the base. Yeah. So Birdland, five, seven plus classic Moderate Climb and Red Rocks, that's been on my list ever since. I've looked at Red Rocks just because I like doing classics.
00:37:58:15 - 00:38:17:10
Unknown
But every single time I walked by, it's just the Congo line, like you said, and you had convinced me that it wouldn't be the case because it was a Friday and I was like, okay, sure. The way I drove up. Yes, the Friday morning. And so I think I got into town around seven, 730. And then we got out there pretty casually.
00:38:17:10 - 00:38:44:07
Unknown
And right when we got to the base, there was a party of three that were just starting and we said, are you guys on Birdland? Yeah. Okay. We're thinking of doing the same thing, but it's probably not smart to like wait on you guys because you're party of three. And so we looked at the guidebook and found out that we could probably take this climb right next to it and just like skirt around them and kind of link pitched up one of that with two of Birdland and get ahead of them.
00:38:44:07 - 00:39:01:21
Unknown
So. Well, I guess I don't know if we announced that to them, but we kind of like went for it and ended up they ended up being a very fast party of three. So like I linked one and two and got on to Birdland in front of them. But by the time like Pile started climbing, they had already finished pitch one.
00:39:01:21 - 00:39:19:04
Unknown
And so they did wait for us for maybe like two or 3 minutes while Kyle finished. And then we were very quickly out of their way. And I mean, I don't remember how long it took us, like an hour or something to do All of Birdland. It was very quick. But I guess I guess the, you know, cutting in front of somebody is not cool.
00:39:19:04 - 00:39:42:01
Unknown
But also who wants to wait for a party of three when you know, you're just to like, romp up something? I don't know where I stand on that. I think they were super cool about it. They were really awesome. All three of them were just like, Wow, whatever. We're just having a good time. I think if they were like, Probably Harding, like that was their limit, they probably would have been a little more pissed.
00:39:42:01 - 00:40:05:08
Unknown
But it ends up working out really good. But I've had I've had bad experiences where I've waited a long time on people. Yeah, we had like a whole day planned too. It was like, this is just the warm up. It's like, let's get in and get out. And I think that, you know, it's just a great example. I think that's just a good talking point, you know, for us all to kind of dive into our own experiences and thoughts on this.
00:40:05:10 - 00:40:28:14
Unknown
You know, like you said, Bryce, I've had multiple experiences with people that either want to pass me or people that, you know, are disrespectful to the space that we have. Like, okay, I'll go in the first one, Dark Shadows, we get to the base and we're first and then like 30 seconds later, another party comes up behind us and, you know, they're I'm already flicking the rope and they're like, antsy.
00:40:28:14 - 00:40:48:05
Unknown
You know, They're like, they really want to get past us. I can tell. And previous to this, in the Black Canyon, I had had a party that came up behind us while I was already like climbing the end of pitch one and as and we started to come up, pitch one, they immediately started climbing behind her like, you know, 50 feet.
00:40:48:07 - 00:41:06:02
Unknown
And they did that the entire way up. And even to the point where they were just like kind of standing next to her at the belay, just kind of like on lead, just kind of waiting for her to leave the station, just like unnecessarily crowding us. So I had a bit of a bad taste in my mouth with people following behind.
00:41:06:04 - 00:41:18:14
Unknown
And so I come off pretty heated. I'm just like, So you're going to be on our ass or what? And then he's like, That's a wrong question, is like getting all heated back. And I was like, All right, cool. You know, I get it. I came off a little hot, and so I was just like, Look, dude, are you fast or what?
00:41:18:15 - 00:41:31:17
Unknown
What's your plan here? They're like, Yeah, we're we're trying to, like, get up this really quick. I was like, I put my ego aside and I was like, Fine, you know, that's cool. Go ahead. Like, I'm trying to have a chill day. I don't want to have to worry about you guys being upset and just being on my ass all day.
00:41:31:19 - 00:41:50:18
Unknown
And so I let them go and sure enough, they just like, ripped up it. And so it's like there's, like this thing you got to balance. It's like, you know, you were there first. So technically, like, you do have rights to climate whenever you want, but at the same time it's like there's other people involved. And so, you know, what is the best decision for everybody involved here?
00:41:50:20 - 00:42:12:14
Unknown
You know, Max, what kind of experiences with this kind of situation have you had? Yeah, I think there's so many caveats to what going on. Like generally for me, any time I show up behind a party at a multipage or something like classic climbs are talking about and stuff, it's just like kill killing with kindness man, communicate. Ask the person, don't climb up their ass.
00:42:12:15 - 00:42:34:05
Unknown
You know, if it's a really friendly and you're like legitimately super speedy and you think you can pass them, like you can try and arrange that my, my like, default modality is just like, chill as a cucumber, you know, It's like if, if I'm in a rush, like, that's my problem. Not the group ahead of me's problem, you know, And there are newer climber.
00:42:34:05 - 00:42:52:22
Unknown
They don't feel good. You're giving them anxiety, you're pressuring them, they change their leading style. You kind of like just ruining somebody's day, potentially making them make a decision that can injure themselves. You know what I mean? Like, I think there's just so many variables to that. So like, my thought process of it is like, kill them with kindness.
00:42:53:00 - 00:43:14:06
Unknown
Fortunately, I've never really had any, like, horror stories or issues. The only one I've ever had was actually ice climbing like you and I were climbing this that the plum here in B.C. and, you know, like I pitch one like this guy literally climbing right up Ray's ass, which in ice climbing is like, just insanity, you know? It's like craving ice.
00:43:14:06 - 00:43:30:17
Unknown
Yeah. This is like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, like, I was just in disbelief, and he was like. And then we get up and pitch one, and it's also like avalanche terrain. So, like, and we got there really early. First people in the climbs, everything. And, and then he was like, do you guys like, we're going to try and pass you?
00:43:30:17 - 00:43:54:00
Unknown
I was like, Yeah, no, you know, like, no, you're not, You know, it's like, this is you could trigger an avalanche above us. I'm like, You're not even being that much faster than us. Like, it was just like, this is not happening. And of course, like, he hadn't even pulled up his second and he actually raced us to the start of the next pitch and then tried to climb like up and over me.
00:43:54:02 - 00:44:13:23
Unknown
And he wasn't even faster than us. And after after that, Petry tried that. I was like, okay, like, fuck you guys, you know, go do your thing. Backed off, and they weren't even faster in the end. Like, we got to the crux, you know, five pitch and we had to wait there for like 45 minutes while these guys were climbing.
00:44:14:00 - 00:44:39:21
Unknown
It was like, you know, like it was so unnecessary. It was so rude. Like to this day, I found the guy on Instagram. I know his name. I, I, I've actually met him before at the Little Ice Fast and like, had conversations with them and I was just like, I was just so shocked that, like, you would fucking do that, you know, like, I couldn't, I couldn't believe a person like my initial thoughts were like, literally, like getting in a fistfight on this ice climb with this guy.
00:44:39:21 - 00:45:01:16
Unknown
Because I thought that was just insanely disrespectful. So, yeah, I don't know. I think there's just lots of considerations that that is particular because you're now like lots of objective, like overhead hazard and following, you know, like, like. So I think that's even different than on rock. Yeah, I don't know. In general, like your problems are your problems, you know what I mean?
00:45:01:22 - 00:45:18:23
Unknown
Like, if that makes sense. Like, Hey, I'm climbing this crack. I'm sorry that I woke up an hour before you, and you really want to get to the top really fast, but, like, you know, you're kind of just ruining my day by, like, climbing up my ass or something. So. But at the same time, like, you also have to share, right?
00:45:19:04 - 00:45:33:18
Unknown
So, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's kind of like I was gonna say two things. It's kind of like driving on the freeway like, we all think. I mean, some people, if somebody is on your tail, like, clearly they want to go faster than you. It doesn't matter how fast you're driving, you could be driving 100.
00:45:33:20 - 00:45:59:19
Unknown
And if somebody is on your tail, they want to go faster than yours to just get over. And I think that's kind of my approach is like if somebody is behind me and I they I think they're going to go faster than me, then I have no problem just waiting at a belay and giving them a pitch. I think more often than not, as a somewhat faster climber, it tends to be the other way where I'm waiting and then I think it's their right to choose whether they want to let somebody pass them or not.
00:45:59:21 - 00:46:24:20
Unknown
But like you said, it takes a bit of communication and a bit of grace from both people to kind of come to a working conclusion. We're all trying to get to the same place and enjoy the same climb. So let's all have a good day about it. When I did Epinephrine, I was telling Kyle about this. We like my buddy and I got to the crag like right as it we hiked in super early in the dark out there right as it was getting light.
00:46:24:20 - 00:46:41:02
Unknown
And there was another duo that was like pretty much pacing with us, the entire approach. And so neither of us were trying to like, be jerks and saying, it's ours first. So we kind of hash it out at the base because we all got there at the same time. And I was like, How fast do you guys think you're going to climb?
00:46:41:04 - 00:46:57:07
Unknown
And he's like, Well, how fast are you going to climb? I was like, Well, I think if you're asking me that, I think I'm going to climb faster than you. But I'm not sure. Like, I think we're going to fly up this. Like, to be honest. So and they're like, okay, cool, yeah, you can go first. And so they let us go first.
00:46:57:07 - 00:47:18:04
Unknown
We start up the first pitch and I get, you know, a little bit up the climb and I'm like, Dude, there's a party in front of us. There was already two people on the climb and we were waiting for them. And I then I realize there was a party in front of them, so I don't know what time these guys started climbing they were When we got to the base and it was getting light out, they must have been like on the first or second pitch of the chimney already.
00:47:18:06 - 00:47:38:08
Unknown
So but anyways, I was going to stay. We were the guy in front of us. He I think his name was Carlos from L.A. so shout out if you're there, Carlos. But yeah, he was getting guided up, so he was following everything. And his the guy that was leading was his guide, and he was just taking his sweet time.
00:47:38:08 - 00:47:52:18
Unknown
Even before the Jimenez, he was like really struggling like pitch three or something like that. And we're like, Man, this isn't going to go good. And so we got to the chimneys and he was on the first pitch of the chimneys, and we're sitting there at the blade. The other duo that was climbing like caught up to us.
00:47:52:18 - 00:48:14:09
Unknown
So there's the four of us on the belay, waiting at the base of the chimneys for Carlos to finish like the first pitch. And he's taken a sweet time. He stops in the middle of the pitch, he takes his GoPro out and he's like, Hey, you know, like GoPro and himself like. And I yelled at him. I was like, Carlos, because we had talked to him at the ledge, but I was like, Carlos, there's four of us waiting on you, dude.
00:48:14:09 - 00:48:32:13
Unknown
Like, can you, can you try to climb a little faster? Like that time I was a little like, I thought it was fair to say, like, Hey, you know, this isn't the time to whip out your GoPro and just have a blast when four people are waiting for you. And I think his ego took a crack at that because the rest of the climb, we didn't really wait for him at all.
00:48:32:13 - 00:48:51:16
Unknown
He just started trippin. So maybe it was good for me to say that. Yeah, I do have like two more things I can interject here on that. Like, of course, if there is somebody who is highly competent and really smooth at climbing, like, like when Ray and I were climbing Peak, this group just came behind us that was smiling.
00:48:51:16 - 00:49:16:22
Unknown
And like for every five plate pieces I was placing, this guy's facing like one piece, just like, it's like, no problem, dude. How that? Or you know what I mean? Like, you're going to be up this climb when I'm, like, halfway on this thing, like mosquito eating and my dead sun. So it's totally fine ass. I have a funny there's like one of the classic climbs in Squamish is like, they call it the Bud Light and you can access it a whole bunch other ways.
00:49:16:22 - 00:49:36:11
Unknown
All these like classic, you know, kind of five, seven, eight, nine multi pitches and it's a59 with a bolted protected area that goes to these really cool edge systems. And then it goes into like this, like really small five a chimney. And so we get to the base of this thing. It's like midday k, you know, in the sun, like just baking.
00:49:36:16 - 00:50:00:18
Unknown
And there was like, my God, I think it was four parties, so three at the base. One just passed the five nine crux and then there was this party of three in this five eight chimney and they're just one of their crew members was just pretty much like stock like just couldn't climb and we just like sat down, waited for like 45 minutes at least.
00:50:00:18 - 00:50:22:12
Unknown
They're more just like sitting there, like, unable to do anything or move. And like the other routes up there, you know, didn't make sense for us to do. And so that was kind of a bummer. You know, It's like, you know, but like at that point, there's so many people like, we were joking was like the Hillary step on Everest, you know, where there's like the line up of like a hundred people, like trying to get by.
00:50:22:14 - 00:50:47:14
Unknown
And I said, we should like petition Squamish Rock climbing to rename it the Hillary Step. But it didn't go that far. Yeah. Vice You had a moment at the four white men's walkway that I thought was really funny. Yeah. So Evan, who like I mentioned earlier, my one of my partners, he was wanting to go do his first big crowd lead out at Idlewild, which is my like home crag, my stomping ground.
00:50:47:14 - 00:51:11:18
Unknown
That's kind of where I cut my teeth. But he was wanting to get into tried leading, and so he was going to go to White Maiden's walkway walkway by for a little bit more engaging than the trough I've heard. I still haven't done it, but and I was just going to follow him and support him. And so we're hiking up and I actually had to like I had to stop in his bathroom.
00:51:11:18 - 00:51:25:00
Unknown
So I like, went off the trail and came back and this couple starts passing us. And it was a guy and a girl and we're like, This was right. As I was getting back on the trail, I'm like, what are you guys going to do? Like wipe Maiden's walkway? Like, okay, cool. That's what we were going to do too.
00:51:25:02 - 00:51:46:20
Unknown
And I was like, But it's my buddy's first time. So we're like, Chill and take your time. And the guy like, heard that and just looked at like he was just man on a mission, left his girlfriend in the dust like she she was hiking up. We pretty much hiked up the entire approach and all the way to the base of the crack with with her because he just passed out and was gone.
00:51:46:20 - 00:52:20:18
Unknown
And like, he was probably, like, racked up like, everything ready to go. By the time she got there, he was just really excited to be first and we had no problem with that. I knew we were going to be slow as my buddy's first traveling, and so while they were doing their thing on the first pitch, I'm teaching Evan a little bit of like reminders on anchor building and now this and that and whatnot, and we wait for like an hour or so and the guy, like, finally finishes leading the first pitch and the girl follows in quick fashion and she gets up to the, I think, the first pitch belay.
00:52:20:18 - 00:52:41:12
Unknown
And so we're just sitting there waiting and he's talking to her and they're like doing snacks and drinks and just hanging out and like another like 20 minutes goes by and they're still at the first pitch anchor. I'm like, Okay, at this point, I think it's intentional. And he just wants us to pick a different climb. Like, I think he's just like, This is my first big lead and I don't want anybody around me.
00:52:41:14 - 00:53:02:07
Unknown
So we ended up just doing the trough and had a good experience over there. But that was probably the dirtiest experience I've ever had with with other climbers. But I guess that's what you get when you go to do like a super moderate climb at a big crag where everybody wants to have their first big lead. So yeah, yeah, sure.
00:53:02:08 - 00:53:23:21
Unknown
It pays to climb hard. Yeah, I it does, man. You if you can climb 510, I think you can skip like half the crowd. For me, I have a pretty stark rule. It's like one party ahead. I'll wait as long as they're looking proficient at this. And I should show two parties. I'm pretty much going to skip it and look for something else.
00:53:24:00 - 00:53:45:14
Unknown
Like, that's a hard line. Three. No way. Like a hard line. No way. And the funny thing is, for me, it's like the fact that conga lines even exist in the first place. Like why are people sitting at a base of a climb for 5 hours to to get on the climb? It's like it's, it's lunacy. Like we were doing Cloud Tower and I walked past Bret's and Chrysalis.
00:53:45:16 - 00:54:06:03
Unknown
There was a party of three leading pitch to a party of two leading pitch one and a party of three waiting to get on the climb. I'm just like, Go somewhere else. I don't know. It's like, you know, there's so much to do out here. Why do you have to do the single climb and you know it was very obvious that the party of three, like, didn't really know what they were doing.
00:54:06:04 - 00:54:26:01
Unknown
It was like, you know, very, you know, not a situation of efficiency or competence, competency And so it's just like all the flags are there. I just walked I was like, God, what it should show? It's like, I can't believe people are willing to like, put themselves through the first place. I like to attribute it or compare it to like people waiting like an hour in line for it, in and out.
00:54:26:01 - 00:54:38:14
Unknown
Like, you know, they see the lines just like go around the entire block. It's like you could go to Safeway and buy a sandwich and be home, you know, 15 minutes. But you're going to sit there in your car for an hour and a half or in an hour or just go in. And yeah, that's the thing, too.
00:54:38:14 - 00:54:55:23
Unknown
It's like, get out of your car and walk in. Yeah, yeah, get out of your car and walk in and you can have a burger in 10 minutes instead of, you know, the entire line disgrace I've seen that are like Squamish, like North Apron and stuff. A lot of like the more classic, like moderate Multipage climbs where you get like there's like three different or four different groups waiting at the base.
00:54:55:23 - 00:55:25:04
Unknown
And there's even particularly weird because there's like six climbs right in a row that are all moderates. You could just go right to the next one and like climb that one. But I also think on some level it's a lot of the time, like probably less adventurous, less experienced climbers, they looked at that route, they planned it. They drove up from the city, you know, and then you get there and there's a group and it's like, I just think some people like their experiences is like they're not just like on a dime willing to be like, chef, no problem.
00:55:25:04 - 00:55:43:19
Unknown
I do this just with the plan. It's like, it's like, that's kind of their day, you know? Like, that's how they plan. So I also have some, like, respect for that, you know, like not wanting to just like fully 180 or something. But sometimes I do see that I'm like, like, bro, there is a really great five eight just like a hundred feet to your right and you're going to wait behind like three people here.
00:55:43:19 - 00:56:03:22
Unknown
I'm like, All right, do your thing, you know? So But yeah. yeah. And then, you know, I feel like those are the kind of people that end up having epics and stuff in the night when they're like they, you know, they don't have a big experience rappelling. And then, you know, they're eight pitches up and the sun goes down because they waited too long at the base and now they're your epic in and red Rock trying to repel and they're getting their rope stuck.
00:56:03:22 - 00:56:31:01
Unknown
It's just like just ends up in a mess. Yeah that speaking of that that party that was at the base of epinephrine with us that let us go first. We ended up being like we were down the descent, we were hiking out and we could still see their headlamps up on the climb. So they, you know, they definitely were slower than us, but because also because they were in the last party, like they were climbing out in the in the dark and yeah, that can happen.
00:56:31:03 - 00:56:52:17
Unknown
Not fun. How do we want to close this off? We're getting we're getting close to the at the time the sweet spot, is, is there anything else we haven't covered yet? I mean, one thing I was going to say was like, it's, I guess this kind of ties into climbing as a father, too. But like, after when I had my first kid, I totally thought.
00:56:52:17 - 00:57:10:02
Unknown
And after that, like, Joshua Tree experience or whatever, I totally thought like, man, I'm just never going to make climbing kind of stuff for a long time from where it was before. And I just thought like, man, I'm never going to climb it. Or if you get injured, you kind of have that feeling of like, you guys know way more than me, I'm sure.
00:57:10:02 - 00:57:38:08
Unknown
But even like a small injury, it's like, I'm just never going to be good again. And I've learned with with the kids, like, yeah, you have a little period after my first kid where I kind of sucked for a while, but then I came back way stronger than ever afterwards. And I don't really know what that was attributed to, but, you know, I was like within six months of that, of having my first kid, I was already climbing like, harder than I ever had and plan and big objective still.
00:57:38:08 - 00:58:11:12
Unknown
And I hear of other parents who take even way longer than that off like they just stop climbing for years while they have young kids and then like, get back into it and they're like, AJ is out there brushing as ever. So and I know he took like many years off for his GED and but yeah, it's just I guess I'm I would encourage anybody, whether you're injured or whatever it is, if you're taking time off, it could be a good thing and you've got the passion like stick with it.
00:58:11:14 - 00:58:33:00
Unknown
You'll get better. You'll get stronger if you put your mind to it. Yeah, that wasn't really words of wisdom, but I honestly think it was. We recently just spoke to like Mary Eden and she had like a similar kind of thing where she was going through some issues or whatever. She took a break off and part of her reminder was like, you know, like it's like, why are you climbing?
00:58:33:00 - 00:58:52:11
Unknown
Like, if you're you're just going through this mechanized process or you're not feeling good or you're not feeling passionate or having some issues with it. Like sometimes the best thing for you to do is actually take a step back, you know, and like gain some perspective, have a break, give your mind a break, and then you can kind of return to whatever you're doing, really revitalized and feeling good.
00:58:52:13 - 00:59:13:08
Unknown
Of course, from a physiological standpoint, you know, frequency and consistency does provide these adaptations to get better as a climber and stronger. But at the same time, you know, you alluded to this at the beginning, Bryce climbing is such a psychological and mental sport and that doesn't just go for like your mental fortitude to be able to deal with the sharp end.
00:59:13:08 - 00:59:28:20
Unknown
Like you also need a lot of drive and passion and willpower to want to be there and want to engage with the environment. And I think sometimes, you know, we can kind of lose sight of that a little bit of like, know, it's kind of supposed to be fun. You should be enjoying yourself, you should be having a good time.
00:59:28:20 - 00:59:48:09
Unknown
And yeah, sometimes you can take a break and come back and and you're better than ever. I also do want to say, Kyle, I don't think I mentioned this before, but when when you had seen that I got into climbing, I was like, pretty, I don't know, like not star struck. But I remember being like, Wow, Kyle's fricking good.
00:59:48:09 - 01:00:04:20
Unknown
Like, I remember seeing your Instagram. I don't know what your climate at the time, but it was way harder than, you know, a new beginner would be climbing. And I was just like, Wow, he's the real deal. And then I forget how it came about. But that first Red Rock trip, I was just like, so stoked to get out and climb with you.
01:00:04:20 - 01:00:33:02
Unknown
And I was like, man, this guy's like, really good. And I think we romped around Calico Base and I got like, destroyed by like all the ten and 11 classics that you've let me follow. And then that next day we did drastic scans and that was like my big lead. And I know I had said at the, at the time I was like, yeah, I'm climbing like 510, which was really like extreme, like pushing grade and being super pumped from that first day with you.
01:00:33:04 - 01:00:59:07
Unknown
I remember just barely pulling off drastic stands, but I guess just I was super, super thankful for you showing me the ropes out here and catching catching the Red Rock bug through that and yeah, so thanks man. That was tell you I mean I think you had a big a big impact on my climbing progression though, and that's always been one of the few partners that I've had since beginning.
01:00:59:07 - 01:01:24:14
Unknown
I guess so I appreciate that. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Yeah, it has been cool to see how far you've come. You know, it was funny. We were at dinner last night and you're like, Yeah, you know, like, if you know, I'm better than you now, that's not what I said. That's not right. I said, I'm happy to be the rope gone now where you were my rope going in the path.
01:01:24:16 - 01:01:42:13
Unknown
But no, I mean, it's it's all good, man. You know, like, my perception on climbing is has changed so much since then, since the injury. And I'm just I'm super psyched to see how far you've come and how psyched you've been about climbing and yeah, linking up again and climbing these last few days have just been super rad, man.
01:01:42:13 - 01:02:06:15
Unknown
We make a great team and I look forward to climbing in the future again with Yeah, yeah. Let's go to El Cap. El Yeah, yeah, let's, let's close off with your, with your list. What, what do you got planned for 2024. the main thing would be El cap. I'm super inspired by the nose. I had a partner and I who got both got into a climbing at the same time, and we had we did last base of Leaning Tower.
01:02:06:15 - 01:02:25:04
Unknown
That was my first aid climb and it went just like perfectly smooth. Everything was great. And, but it was June, so super hot, so we had to take a few months off. We were going to go back and get the nose in the fall. And then he got injured like two days before our trip and then I put it on the back burner with with I was like, I got kids.
01:02:25:04 - 01:02:47:15
Unknown
Like I don't need to be three, eight, five in the nose right now. But then when I got injured, I kind of got stoked on aid climbing because I was like, Well, I can't climb my hardest grades anymore, but I can still climb and I really, really, really want to do the nose. So I'm hoping to get back out there in March and get a little re familiarized with the big wall and then hopefully do camp this year.
01:02:47:16 - 01:03:15:00
Unknown
Just kind of like how can that not be one of your life goals as a climber? And there's some cool stuff out here I'd love to do Cloud Tower, which you were telling me about and original route. Some of those harder, bigger trad lines, but otherwise just enjoying the family life and trying not to put on too much dad bod.
01:03:15:02 - 01:03:32:23
Unknown
man. Awesome. Yeah, I mean, thanks for coming on the show, man. It's been, been a pleasure chatting with you. And as you climb over these last few days and now just thanks for thanks for being here for sure. Thanks for having me on, man. Nice to meet you, Bryce. Nice to meet you, Max. Take care, guys.