Our guest today is not a part of the majority; he is the very definition of a small minority of athletes doing unfathomable feats. Today Kyle and I are sitting down with Jack Kuenzle, a former Navy Seal who grew up in Dallas Texas. Jack attended Yale receiving his B.A before he joined the Navy Seals and completed Basic Underwater Demolition Seals Training (BUDS). He is best known for his pursuit of FKT,s. Some of his accolades include Beating Killian Jornet’s fastest known times on the 66 mile Bob Graham Round, a mountainous traverse around England's lake district. Moreover he beat Killiants FKT on Denali this past year, this is where Jack and I met. Heis also credited with numerous fastest known times such as Mt Whitney CA, Mt Shasta CA, Mt Hood and Mt Rainier to name a few. Additionally Jack is a coach for Evoke Endurance where he is under the tutelage of legendary Coach Scott Johston. In today's conversation we discuss Jack's history, what led him to be the athlete he is today, his training and nutrition and finally we discuss some of his major ascents, FKT’s and what he plans to do in the future.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Our guest today is not a part of the majority; he is the very definition of a small minority of athletes doing unfathomable feats. Today Kyle and I are sitting down with Jack Kuenzle, a former Navy Seal who grew up in Dallas Texas. Jack attended Yale receiving his B.A before he joined the Navy Seals and completed Basic Underwater Demolition Seals Training (BUDS). He is best known for his pursuit of FKT,s. Some of his accolades include Beating Killian Jornet’s fastest known times on the 66 mile Bob Graham Round, a mountainous traverse around England's lake district. Moreover he beat Killiants FKT on Denali this past year, this is where Jack and I met. Heis also credited with numerous fastest known times such as Mt Whitney CA, Mt Shasta CA, Mt Hood and Mt Rainier to name a few. Additionally Jack is a coach for Evoke Endurance where he is under the tutelage of legendary Coach Scott Johston. In today's conversation we discuss Jack's history, what led him to be the athlete he is today, his training and nutrition and finally we discuss some of his major ascents, FKT’s and what he plans to do in the future.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:10
Unknown
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where column I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides to recreational climbers like discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:25:12 - 00:00:50:10
Unknown
Hello and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast. Our guest today is not part of the majority. He is the very definition of a small minority of athletes doing unfathomable feats. Today, Kyle and I are sitting down with Jack Conway, a former Navy SEAL who grew up in Dallas, Texas. Jack attended Yale receiving his B.A. before he joined the Navy SEALs and completed basic underwater demolition SEALs training, also known as BUDS.
00:00:50:11 - 00:01:11:16
Unknown
As impressive as that is, Jack is actually known for his athletic pursuits where he chases fastest known times, also known as f k tees. Some of his accolades include beating, Killing, Journey's fastest known time on the 66 mile Bob Graham round a mountainous traverse around England's Lake district. Moreover, he also beat Killian's F Katie on Denali this past year.
00:01:11:17 - 00:01:32:08
Unknown
This is where Jack and I met. Jack is also credited with numerous farces known times such as Mt. Whitney, Mount Shasta, Mt. Hood and Mt. Rainier, to name a few. Additionally, he is a coach for Revoke Endurance, where he's under the total age of legendary coach Scott Johnston. In today's conversation, we discuss Jack's history, what led him to be the athlete he is today, his training and nutrition.
00:01:32:08 - 00:02:07:11
Unknown
And finally, we discuss some of his major Ascents facts and what he plans to do for the future. So without further delay, I bring you, Jack, tons of. All right, everybody, welcome back to the podcast. And we'll give Jack here a really amazing introduction worthy of his accolades and caliber as an individual. But, you know, Jack, how are you doing, man?
00:02:07:11 - 00:02:32:12
Unknown
How's it going? To the tastic? Yeah. Not. Not. I just drove to a gas station. I have, like, an antenna on my roof that, like, boosts, like, the cell coverage. And then, like, I got to the gas station, the antenna was dragging behind my car and completely destroyed. But other than that, fine. Here. I think you recently dragged your generator behind your van for quite a while.
00:02:32:13 - 00:02:51:07
Unknown
Is that true? Yeah, like a couple. When I was in Wyoming, I. I ran it over and left it in the parking lot, and a ranger found it, and they were like, Have you been sleeping in this lot? And I was like, Oh, maybe. And they're like, Did you leave your generator here? And like, I've been telling everybody was stolen, so that was nice to get back in.
00:02:51:07 - 00:03:11:21
Unknown
And yeah, yesterday I just started driving across the parking lot and then all of a sudden I was like, Oh, I wonder if I put my generator up. And then I, like, looked outside and was just like being dragged by the car. Crazy. And then unplugged itself. So did you do your van conversion yourself? No, I bought this to pick up a camper in the back of a pickup.
00:03:12:03 - 00:03:36:00
Unknown
Yeah. So you can actually detach it from your vehicle, though, right? Yeah, you can. But yeah, I never have. But yeah, you can. You can lift it out. We had, like, a friend of mine, previous guests on this show. They have like, it's a actually old fire truck converted that they're living out of. But the issue when you have a van or conversion is that if your engine craps out, your house has to go into the shop.
00:03:36:02 - 00:03:51:00
Unknown
So then you're like homeless. You know, we're driving something a lot of people don't consider. So I've seen lots of other people having considerations of that. If you can put it in the back of a pickup, then you can actually put your home somewhere while your vehicle goes into the shop, which is a start, historic, you know, production and everything.
00:03:51:00 - 00:04:07:14
Unknown
So on this podcast, we like to dive a little bit of the history into the individual and stuff. And so if you could kind of just give us like the 30,000 foot view of, you know, what is the journey that has led you to be the individual that you are today, if that makes sense. It's a big question.
00:04:07:16 - 00:04:36:17
Unknown
Yeah, I think just fundamentally, I'm just like a very competitive person and I think that's just kind of like shaped a lot what I've done. So. Yeah. No, I born and born in Dallas, Texas. I lived there for five years. My family moved to Connecticut and lived in like rural northwest Connecticut, went to school up there. I was an officer in the Navy, went into the SEAL teams.
00:04:36:19 - 00:05:00:13
Unknown
I did that for a couple of years and it wasn't really for me. So then I got out in November of 21, and at that time I had done I had done I mean, at that time and November 21, I mean, I had I had raced like growing up, I'd done like some like trail running, just like, you know, not just like in the woods, just like wandering around.
00:05:00:15 - 00:05:25:20
Unknown
And then I did my first I did a 50 mile Ultra in 2018, 2019. I did like a handful of ultras. 2020. I deployed to Bosnia and I did like a handful of factors. 2021 was like my first kind of like year where I actually felt like I did some like I mean, I think what I did in 2020, in Bosnia was all right, but I mean, that shit wasn't very competitive, you know, Nobody nobody nobody's running out there.
00:05:25:22 - 00:05:47:07
Unknown
Well, just something I'm really curious about here, so. So did you end up doing bugs and going through the whole seal training and everything you are? Is that correct? Yes, I did. I did. But yeah, I wouldn't have brought it up otherwise. Yeah, I did, but yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So, you know, I don't want to, like, dwell on this too much, but, you know, what was that process like for you?
00:05:47:07 - 00:06:08:11
Unknown
Because obviously, you know, it's so dominant in media and you see that and you hear about bugs. And I'm just kind of wondering like what what was that experience like for you? Yeah. So, I mean, I don't really talk about this that often. I'm happy to do it, but I just want to preface this by saying, like in my time in the Navy, just as a result of when I was in, I was personally never in combat.
00:06:08:12 - 00:06:11:18
Unknown
So, yeah, like buds.
00:06:11:20 - 00:06:39:20
Unknown
I was like, so I think I like mainly wanted to go into the SEAL teams because of BUDS. You know, I got like halfway through BUDS and I kind of realized I was actually going to make it through and I was like, Oh wow, I now I have to be in the Navy, which yeah, so, so real quick, I was in the Air Force ROTC, SDSU, and I quit because I didn't like where my future was headed.
00:06:39:20 - 00:07:11:13
Unknown
I didn't vibe with the community. It didn't you know, it didn't feel like it was who I was. And it feels like you had that realization, too. But how far along your process did you get before you realized that it wasn't your future? Yeah, I mean, it's it's kind of tricky to say. I think the you know, I was so as I got closer to Buds, I became so focused on it that I really wasn't, you know, at a time I'd really I mean, honestly, like I went to the so between my junior and senior year I went to the SEAL officer screener and that was like two weeks.
00:07:11:13 - 00:07:29:12
Unknown
And San Diego was like a week abides in like a week of like psyche battles. And going through that, I honestly had some doubts. But at that point, you know, I was locked into my Roxy obligation. So I was going to serve that time in the Navy on a fucking ship, which was just not something I was going to do.
00:07:29:14 - 00:07:49:07
Unknown
And then obviously, or like, you know, or get through buds and, you know, honestly, I was, I was still kind of in the middle. I like I didn't know what I was going to do otherwise. But like, I just, you know, I just remember just interacting with the guys that were really in the training. I was like, I just like, I don't know if this is really for me.
00:07:49:07 - 00:08:08:01
Unknown
I think like one of the fundamental problems is like buds, like at its core, it's like a very team, kind of like a group or, you know, SEAL teams are very team organized, you know, oriented organization and like, you know, increasing. I started realizing like that just like wasn't really make, you know, you know, kind of would rather just do things by myself.
00:08:08:01 - 00:08:26:11
Unknown
So that was the first kind of realization. Also at that point, like I felt like I was just too insecure not to go at that point. Also to an extent because it was like, okay, there's a lot of people that maybe go to the SEAL officer screener and then are like, Oh yeah, you know, it's not for me because like they know they're about to get like fucked up in Buds.
00:08:26:13 - 00:08:40:20
Unknown
So like, I was just like too, too insecure in some ways to be like, okay, you know what? I'm just going to, like, not do this, but I don't want to discount too much. I think there were there was a part of me it's hard to say there was a part of me that like really like kind of the travel aspect.
00:08:40:20 - 00:08:58:05
Unknown
And I'd grown up traveling quite a bit and, you know, hearing about some of the stuff guys were doing in Afghanistan, I was like, okay, that sounds. That sounds. It could be kind of interesting to me. And then the next was probably when I finished Hell Week, honestly. So that's like the seventh week of the training and that's like the end of the hardest part of the training generally with looked as hard as part of training.
00:08:58:05 - 00:09:18:21
Unknown
And that's when you know about, I would say 98% of people who finish hell week will become a Navy SEAL, about 95%. And so that's when it really dawned on me like, holy shit, like I'm actually going to probably do this. And yeah, that's when I first started thinking about it and I was able to just kind of like put my head down and and get through it.
00:09:18:21 - 00:09:36:22
Unknown
And, and then the last, you know, basically the last time was I did like a deployment augmenting like a deployed team before I did my actual deployment. And I went on that and, you know, I kind of heard increasingly like I saw kind of like what guys were doing overseas and like, it was just really quiet, you know?
00:09:37:00 - 00:09:56:11
Unknown
And I was like, I don't know if I want to do this for my twenties because it's like not much in some ways I'm very happy I wasn't in combat. But another one is like, Yeah, my now my brother's an explosive ordnance disposal for the Air Force. And so he like, he's gone through crazy training too, and he sits at a desk and he doesn't like do much at all.
00:09:56:11 - 00:10:21:08
Unknown
And I'm, I mean, SEALs and EOD is a completely different playing field but similar in the fact that, you know, no combat, no actual work experience. You know, you get trained for all this stuff and you end up not being able to use these skills at all. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like we you know, so I was involved in a program that brought like I was in charge.
00:10:21:08 - 00:10:35:18
Unknown
I mean, this is like was part of my job was like I was in charge of we had like midshipmen from the Naval Academy come to Virginia Beach and like, put on like a two week, like, little like, you know, this is what the SEAL teams are like type of thing for guys who were interested doing down the road.
00:10:35:23 - 00:10:57:03
Unknown
And we sat down with the guy who's in charge of all the East Coast SEAL teams and he like gave him this talk. And it was like, I mean, I found it pretty motivating at that point. I was getting out. But like, I mean, it wasn't going to change my mind, but he was basically like, look, like there is a if you make it through the training, there's probably like a, you know, ten, 20% chance, 10% chance you're going to like actually do your job.
00:10:57:03 - 00:11:12:19
Unknown
But if you do your job, it's going to be at like such a high level and it's going to be so like no fail that. It's like it's like crazy and like you have to be willing to just train, you know, like basically, like 100%, you know, for years and years on that 10% chance you're doing that is fucking like, you know, crazy mission.
00:11:12:19 - 00:11:30:17
Unknown
And like, for me, I just like, I just kind of needed something else. I mean, also like at the time I was, I was starting to run a bit more and I was like, okay, I could actually be competitive in Mountain Sport and I've got a very limited window. You know, I'm looking at all like the Euros and they're just like training 24 seven and I'm just like in Virginia Beach, you know, fucking beaten off a camper.
00:11:30:17 - 00:12:10:16
Unknown
But so, so I guess I guess something that I'm something that I was trying to allude here without dwelling on it too, too long is two things that I'm really curious about here is how do you feel Buds helped shape you in in endurance perspective into the athlete you are today? Like what role did that play? And then the other question I have is obviously and this is not like to diminish anything or I'm just wondering how does buds in physicality and grit and difficulty compare to some of the really hard endurance objectives you do?
00:12:10:22 - 00:12:31:20
Unknown
Is it buds? Was way more difficult? Are some of the because obviously you're doing if you're in a 100 kilometer hundred mile race that's just pure suffering, you know, pure suffering and persevering through adversity and agony and mental war with yourself. So I'm wondering how how do you compare those on a physical level of of difficulty, if you could?
00:12:31:22 - 00:12:53:01
Unknown
Yeah. So, I mean, one thing is, is like I never I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't have gone into the Navy and hypothetically, I could have done something that was like very, you know, fulfilling, great whatever. But like, it's hard to imagine something that would have a greater influence on me and would, like, set me up better to, like, do the endurance stuff.
00:12:53:01 - 00:13:15:17
Unknown
And, you know, it's really not I think it's a very, very small part of it is like having done that stuff mentally, maybe I have like a you know, it's like it's a really I think it's just like if you do something really hard in the past and then you do something really hard in the future, it's like as you're doing that really hard thing in the future, like, okay, I did X in the past, you know, that's really all it kind of comes down to.
00:13:15:17 - 00:13:46:15
Unknown
Like, I don't really think it, you know, in some ways like I'm almost like adverse to pain because like, I don't want to do that again. But when I went to that screener, I remember during the screener, you know, it's just like really it's just like one day that's like really bad. And when I was going through the screener, like, I almost quit and I got to the end of it and I was like, how the hell am I going to get through buds if I couldn't even barely even make it through this like, dumb little thing they were putting us through.
00:13:46:17 - 00:14:06:07
Unknown
And afterwards we went we were just happened to be staying in the same barracks at the guys, like halfway through Buds were staying in and they were telling us, just like, you know, how bad, you know, how bad the training is. And, and really, like, one of the things they imparted on us was like it was like, okay, to like, suffer.
00:14:06:07 - 00:14:25:13
Unknown
And it's like, okay to want to quit. And I mean, I'd heard that from a lot of people, like, oh, everyone's going to want to quit or something. But like really hearing that, it's like, okay, it's like it's okay to go to the limit, you know? And it's like, but you just have to like, focus on each individual second and like, not look at like the whole picture of what you're going through.
00:14:25:14 - 00:14:43:19
Unknown
What I always kind of thought about is like, like, you know, there were someone told me, like, nobody quits because of what they're doing. They like, quit what's come before, what's coming next, you know, because like and the example that would be like, you know, rarely, you know, hell week they let you sleep like 2 hours between Sunday night and Friday morning.
00:14:43:21 - 00:15:02:16
Unknown
And very, very rarely does anyone quit after Wednesday morning. And that's not because like your brain dead or it's not as hard or anything else it's like it is truly horrendous Wednesday and Thursday and Friday morning. But like, it's just, you know, you're so close to the end that, you know, just like the the amount of suffering you have less left is less.
00:15:02:16 - 00:15:30:05
Unknown
Whereas like Monday, Tuesday are just as bad. Maybe not even as bad because you aren't as fatigued, but like, you have such a big part of how to you. So like what I always used to think about, what people always said is people like quit because of like what's coming, not what's happening to them. So I always thought like, I'm never going to quit before something because I'd like to at least try it and then I'm not going to quit during it because like often you'd see, you know, people would quit and then like it would often people would quit in like large groups.
00:15:30:05 - 00:15:44:11
Unknown
So like somebody, somebody would quit and then like a number of people would quit immediately after, like, especially kind of happened, I felt, with the officers. And then, you know, once you've gotten through something, it's like you can't quit at that point because like, you already completed it. So like that logic, you know, oh, there's no time to quit.
00:15:44:11 - 00:16:01:14
Unknown
Oh, that's so easy. But yeah, that was my personal feeling is like they give us like all these, like, tricks and stuff. But I think what's the most important is like, everybody else is out there, Everybody else is like, really suffering. Everybody else wants to quit. You just like you can't, like, escape it. You just kind of got to like, bear it through.
00:16:01:14 - 00:16:25:06
Unknown
So, I mean, I think the hard thing is, is like you really can't quantify like mental toughness. I don't really know how much of a how much of a role it plays in racing. Like in my mind, it plays, you know, very little role because I don't really you know, I don't know. I just I just from my perspective, like, it just doesn't seem to be playing a huge role.
00:16:25:06 - 00:16:50:19
Unknown
But I don't know, maybe other people would have a different perspective on it. But I think what the things were that were more relevant that it gave me is like, you know, it's just the ability to I don't even know. I mean, here I am. Like, I think one thing is like I notice, like all if you climb with someone who's like, really good at climbing, I found her like a very good, like, alpine.
00:16:50:19 - 00:17:06:20
Unknown
It's like always, like, you know, always like working there. Always like, you know, I don't know, improving their system or always doing something, you know, It's like either that or maybe they're they're sleeping or they're like cooking food or they're like, you know, improving or reorganizing their gear or something. And then you climb I mean, I'm just even talking casually.
00:17:06:22 - 00:17:21:16
Unknown
I have climbed with people that I'm good friends with and they're just like half the time there's like, fucking standing there. It's like, What the hell are you doing? Like, just like, do something. And so it's like, that is like the number one thing they teach you in the field teams is like, just like, do something constantly. And so like that.
00:17:21:16 - 00:17:43:16
Unknown
That was like a huge thing for me. And then like, you know, just like working under stress, I'm like, still, what was really interesting is like, I felt like in Buds, I, like, reacted very poorly to stress, but I was always able to like, perform well through it. Whereas like, typically it's like you there are people that like, have a panic attack and aren't able to function or like are very calm and are able to function very well.
00:17:43:16 - 00:18:05:21
Unknown
And it's like I would almost have the panic attack and then like function well also. So I'm like not very good at that. But like having been through it, I think like, you know, I think it helps me a little bit, but I would say it's so it's more that type of thing. I you know, I wish I could think of more examples that were but this more that type of thing, less than just like, you know, being able to just like, you know, take suffering like that.
00:18:05:23 - 00:18:36:12
Unknown
Um, I think the initial question was just looking for a comparison of, of difficulty and severity from a physicality standpoint of bloods to a longer duration race. And then maybe how has that shaped using an individual? And I think you've, you've answered it sufficiently for sure. You know, it's hard to compare, obviously. I also think on a scale of, you know, I think Jimmy Chin said, you know, the greatest alpinist are the ones with the worst memories, you know, And I think that goes for endurance athletes as well, too.
00:18:36:12 - 00:18:59:21
Unknown
You know, you do these events or these things that break barriers and break you down and you suffer immensely through it. And then you kind of for some reason just want to do it again and you kind of remember only the good things about it or the fulfillment you receive from the previous thing, you know. And so it's hard to have this comparison over time of how hard was something, because I think you keep evolving as an individual and the bar keeps getting higher.
00:19:00:02 - 00:19:20:09
Unknown
So it's like maybe the stress level of something doesn't necessarily get harder. Like the the feeling of it feels the same, but maybe the bar gets higher in some capacity, if that makes sense. But you know, to just move on a little bit here from your your history in in the military, you were talking about you're in Bosnia.
00:19:20:09 - 00:19:38:15
Unknown
You started doing some of these trail races on your feet page. You have some of the facts there. I think correct me if I'm wrong, but you gained a whole bunch of weight to get into the military. You previously played hockey, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Is that it doesn't sound like this, like endurance machine or background.
00:19:38:15 - 00:20:08:22
Unknown
So I'm wondering how did your development into this kind of endurance running kind of start and do you feel you had a natural proclivity for it genetically or did you was it a hard transition for you? Could you maybe explain a little bit about that? Yeah, Yeah, I know. I think I think genetically I got I got pretty lucky, you know, lucky or unlucky because if I was if I wasn't genetically predisposed to it, maybe I'd be living in a real fucking house right now.
00:20:09:00 - 00:20:43:10
Unknown
But, you know, I think just like growing up, you know, growing up, I did. You know, I just had like, I always just had a lot of energy. And I think that's kind of a common one. And then like, yeah, I just I did do a fair amount of just like hiking in the woods and around my house, like the first thing I kind of did that was kind of long was I mean, it's kind of a I mean, I can tell the story, but I did like a bikepacking trip when I graduated high school from like Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, and like Dushanbe, Tajikistan, with some like random dude I met on the Internet.
00:20:43:12 - 00:21:06:13
Unknown
And that was like the first like real kind of like physical thing like that that I did. And I just remember being remember like, you know, we, I had like way too much stuff and I was so determined the entire damn time to never push my bike because, like, you know, it's very steep. You know, rough roads, you know, And I don't know where that came from, but yeah, I mean, clearly, like, the mindset was our thing.
00:21:06:13 - 00:21:34:13
Unknown
Bike. You push your bike on stuff. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, eventually I hit sand, I hit sand into Tajikistan and, you know, I just had to push it like I could not I mean, it wasn't possible, but yeah. So I think, you know, because people always ask me like, you know, people like who are like 16 to like, you know, 18 or something will ask me like or I mean, even older will ask me like, okay, you know, I want to like, be good at endurance sport.
00:21:34:13 - 00:21:54:00
Unknown
Like, what should I do? And the funny thing is, like, I don't really know if I would change anything that I did because I think it's really important to have that like base of strength. I think it's like basically essential, especially when you're doing like steeper mountainous stuff. Like it's important, like if you're going up or if you're going down.
00:21:54:00 - 00:22:16:12
Unknown
I mean, it's important for the short stuff, the purpose of really long stuff. So yeah, I mean, there were years where I spent much more time lifting than I did running, but I think it was probably for the best. Yeah, I've been going through air courses, maybe read some of his work, but he's a legendary climbing trainer, you know, really prolific writer and individual in the climbing community.
00:22:16:12 - 00:22:44:09
Unknown
And I've been reading a lot of his books lately, and he has two sons, Cameron And sorry, I forget the other guy's name, but they're like 514, five, 15 a climbers like amazing climbers. But he talked about the importance of, you know, going through the kind of like youth slash like teen phase and not just having, you know, this kind of assembly, my assembly line really hard mentality and just you're going to be a pro climber doing this.
00:22:44:09 - 00:23:15:19
Unknown
They played football, they did other sports. They moved their body. It was important to like, grow up and develop this physical literacy and gain strength and do other things than just to have the sub focus on one individual sport. And I thought that was a really interesting kind of comment that he has on that. And it sounds like something you're kind of alluding to there where, you know, like maybe necessarily as a really young kid, just having this hard, rigorous schedule, setting you up to be this professional athlete that who knows you might not even want to actually dedicate your entire life to be.
00:23:15:19 - 00:23:36:09
Unknown
It might be better to maintain a whole bunch of different types of fitness and physical literacy and try a whole bunch of different things and then see what works as you maybe come into your 18, 19, 20 year old kind of phase. And I've just been reading his work on that lately and it I think it makes sense and kind of reminded me of what you were saying there.
00:23:36:11 - 00:23:57:11
Unknown
So, you know, I guess like if we're developing this story of your kind of chronology, essentially actually one thing before we move on to some other things is you have a B.A. in Middle Eastern studies, right? Yeah. Yeah. What made you want to do that out of out of curiosity? I mean, that is that part of the reason you chose Kyrgyzstan for your bikepacking trip?
00:23:57:11 - 00:24:13:07
Unknown
No, I mean, it wasn't really like so I did I did ROTC in college, and, you know, just like the, you know, U.S. government paid for my college and provided I go to the military afterwards. And they just they just like people. You know, that's where we happen to be bombing at the time. So they're just like that.
00:24:13:07 - 00:24:35:12
Unknown
Like people that like, you know, major and relevant area studies, they're like they like that in engineering, like the two things they push people toward. So, I mean, when I at Yale, like if you like the Middle Eastern Studies Department was so small that they would count any course towards the major that just had like more than a third of the subject matter about the Middle East.
00:24:35:14 - 00:25:02:00
Unknown
So I could just basically just take like any international relations course and just count towards the major. So, yeah, path of least resistance in some capacity. Did you join it. Yeah. And it's, I mean a dude like in college, like there's a lot of grade inflation at the Ivies, you know, and just like what you were saying before, like I'm coaching, I'm coaching a kid right now who, like, just started college as a freshman in college.
00:25:02:02 - 00:25:17:12
Unknown
And like, if I could go back and do anything different in college, I drank more, you know, like I partied more, you know, and I part of quite a bit and it's just like, I don't want to like this kid. Like I mean, part of me wants to tell him, like, you know, hey, maybe you shouldn't be, you know, I don't know.
00:25:17:17 - 00:25:33:10
Unknown
It's like important to be training and everything and, like, that's an important time of life to be training. But, like, you know, if you don't take advantage of that, I think it, you know, I mean, it would it would. It would be something that, you know, I'd kind of regret, you know, if you didn't take advantage of that kind of like time of your life.
00:25:33:12 - 00:26:09:12
Unknown
But like, I know when I was in college, like, I mean, I don't even I makes it sound like I kind of wasted my education, but that I don't even remember like, that much from class. To be completely honest. I played a lot of split screen collar duty, lifted a lot. Um, yeah, I, I think, I think those are all industrious and productive and on some level they've obviously led to shaped you to the individual and you know, obviously being able to read and write and think appropriately, I don't think that's ever a bad thing to invest time into doing.
00:26:09:14 - 00:26:27:08
Unknown
It's kind of funny from your experience that you're sharing I'm the complete polar opposite, so I dropped out of high school, didn't graduate Then at the age of around 26, I went back and got my high school equivalency and now I'm in university. I'm in my second year of clinical AG and I'm the complete. I'm like, I don't party anymore.
00:26:27:08 - 00:26:43:21
Unknown
I don't drink. I'm not. And it's not that I'm not friendly with kids. I'm just a pretty I'm an introvert. Like, I don't party. I go to school, I do my work, I leave, I go train, I go home, you know, hang out with my beloved girlfriend Ray, and our cat Tigger. But I so it's just like the polar opposite effect.
00:26:43:21 - 00:27:05:18
Unknown
But, you know, I get that like having a good time in those years. Networking. I think those things are really important. But, you know, you already alluded to this, so obviously you're a coach for evoke endurance. I'm I'm wondering if you could how did that come about? Like, how did you become a coach for them? Do you mind, you know, shedding a little light on that?
00:27:05:20 - 00:27:24:01
Unknown
Yeah. So I was like I was determined to get to the Navy, but I had like, no idea what I was going to do afterwards. And, you know, I was just looking at any sort of remote job I could do. Like I even I mean, my biggest one I was looking at was like sat tutoring is what I was going to do.
00:27:24:03 - 00:27:48:05
Unknown
And I mean, I just read up Hill's book Up Hill Athletes book and, you know, I, I just like DM'd Steve House on Instagram and I was like, hey, you know, I'm like a SEAL and I like Ryan. I was like, I don't know, like if you I mean, Scott always like to say that. I told him I would like scrub the toilets or something at his house.
00:27:48:10 - 00:28:09:04
Unknown
I might have said that I can't remember, but I just, you know, like I was like, I'll do anything and I'm going to go. Scott Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, basically what I said and, and then, and then, you know, Steve was like, Yeah, we'll do a zoom with you. And I was like, okay. And then I got on the zoom with Scott and Steve and they're like, pitching me about joining the company.
00:28:09:04 - 00:28:26:12
Unknown
And I'm like, you know, you want to convince me, But I just got really lucky because they were, yeah, you know, they were looking for people with military experience that like, understood the methodology like at that time because, you know, they do coach a fair bit of military. Yeah. So no, I mean, my timing was just, was just really, really good.
00:28:26:12 - 00:28:42:18
Unknown
And I mean, it's just this has been, you know, fantastic ever since. You know, it's just been, you know, so awesome working for Scott. And, you know, it's great because like, I get to, you know, really deep dive like the training methodology and like, I get to talk to Scott a lot and I understand it much better for myself.
00:28:42:18 - 00:29:04:19
Unknown
And then, I mean, it's cool, like accumulating all this knowledge. It's like a cool, like to do something with it. So no, I do, I do really enjoy the coaching. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's really awesome. Actually, I met an individual I think around 2019, Terry Louie, and he kind of mentored me and got me into climbing and the first thing he turned me onto was, you know, training for the new Alpine ism.
00:29:04:21 - 00:29:28:07
Unknown
And I started diving into a lot of Scott and Steve's work and obviously Steve from the climbing perspective was a huge, you know, influence and motivation. And then Scott from the training and methodology standpoint. And so I do resonate more with Scott personally, and he's I do like credit him essentially for putting me on the journey of what I am today, which is, you know, training, anatomy, physiology.
00:29:28:12 - 00:29:55:12
Unknown
I one day would love to get into coaching and personal training and stuff. So quite literally, I do think that Scott has essentially, like transformed my life and is actually the reason I got super involved into endurance sport and climbing. So it is kind of funny. So it's it's pretty awesome, man. You know, as far as like, as far as like your coaching style and stuff, do you mind like just talking about that for like a couple of minutes?
00:29:55:12 - 00:30:14:05
Unknown
I mean, we're kind of just getting through the whole breath of I feel like this 30,000 view of using individual here. But you know, like what? Maybe like what is your kind of like day to day with coaching and and what's your preference and your style? Like, do you only take on certain clients maybe just, you know, dive into that a little bit with us?
00:30:14:05 - 00:30:37:03
Unknown
That would be awesome. No, I mean, I do. I do a bunch of different I mean, like honestly, at this point, 50% of the people I coach are training for some sort of like military tactical kind of opportunity. 25% are just kind of, you know, the people I coach right now are generally fairly on the mountaineering side. It's pretty basic.
00:30:37:03 - 00:31:05:00
Unknown
You know, it's like people, you know, doing Rainier and like going down Ecuador and stuff and doing mainly guided trips and then a couple of trail runners also. So people just like competing and ultras are just kind of whatever. Yeah. I mean, you know, Scott, you know, with that methodology, you know, the I don't know if you want me to get into this, but like, the first thing I always do is, you know, you just like, test people and like, you know, kind of like, evaluate their robot capacity.
00:31:05:00 - 00:31:26:14
Unknown
And, you know, for a lot of folks, especially in the military, it's quite it's they're quite, you know, weak aerobically. And so that's kind of like step one is kind of correcting that. And and then the I mean, for the military stuff, you do need the strength more. But even for the runners in the mountain years. And then the next thing I do is I test their leg strength is super big.
00:31:26:19 - 00:31:42:22
Unknown
And then we just kind of we kind of go from there. But, you know, for a lot of for a lot of. What are some of your favorite metrics for testing leg strength, if you don't mind me just quickly diving into that. I'm just kidding. Yeah, I just use deadlift in front squat like deadlift in front. Scott Okay, interesting.
00:31:42:22 - 00:32:03:08
Unknown
Yeah. And are you looking for like, like one or M or just like percents of one rep? Max is what you go into or I go off of people three Right? Max And honestly, like it's a lot of I wish I had I have at one point wrote down like specific metrics and you know times body weight, whatever, but like it's super variable.
00:32:03:08 - 00:32:22:07
Unknown
You know what? The numbers are going to be the lowest, you know, for people who are running, you know, on the road flat and they're going to be the highest for people doing like I mean, not counting the military stuff. The higher us doing like that 100 mile route I did like in the like super long super technical routes is like with the strength is like the most important.
00:32:22:09 - 00:32:40:08
Unknown
What's your three hour m deadlift and front squat my head I don't know my front squat right now, but my deadlift. I hadn't deadlift in since December 2018. I just did it like a couple of weeks ago and I got 385 for three. I was like shocked. Did shocked. Yeah. Wow. Four three. Yeah, Yeah. Wow. That's impressive. Yeah.
00:32:40:08 - 00:33:00:22
Unknown
I didn't stop there. I saw your video. I thought you almost put out your back. Oh, yeah. Then I tried to pull four or five, four, three and yeah, I bowled to desk on the second rep. Very minor, fortunately. Oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah. So there was like, like ten days in. I thought you had hurt yourself in that video.
00:33:00:22 - 00:33:21:23
Unknown
I saw that and I was like, Oh, shit, It looked like you twigged your black. You let it go like, perfectly. I was like, Oh, wow. Yeah, I was not. Yeah, I was not. That was not a great idea. I mean, like, I was just it was just stupid, you know? I think. Yeah, I don't, I don't even know, like, I just remember back in the day, like, I mean, my, my form would just kind of like I, deadlifting was like, always my best lift when I used to lift.
00:33:21:23 - 00:33:52:07
Unknown
And years ago and I remember my form just like always going to garbage you, just like pulling through it and just, like, never getting injured. So I was like, Oh, whatever, I'll just do that again. You know, clearly, I've kind of forgotten. Yeah, no, but yeah, yeah, no, that's, that's pretty much. And then as far as preference, I used to not like coaching in the military guys, to be completely honest, because their schedules are like a lot of times super busy and like super erratic.
00:33:52:09 - 00:34:25:01
Unknown
But it's kind of where I think I can add the most value for sure. So I have come to kind of like coaching those guys more. But yeah, it's awesome in just like quick 20 or so. I think last time I saw you were you were you still are. Obviously you're a vegetarian, right? Yeah. Yeah. And so when did you become a vegetarian and what kind of differences do you feel you've noticed since you've done that as an athlete?
00:34:25:03 - 00:34:45:10
Unknown
Yes, I became a vegetarian in August of 2021. So yeah, when I was like, so, I mean, I can't even remember how much I weighed when I got into college. But like, I mean, I went through puberty when I was like 1920. And so when I, like, got into college, I mean, I probably weighed I don't even know, like £130 or something.
00:34:45:10 - 00:35:14:10
Unknown
I probably like five, seven. And then I like in college, like I just really focused on lifting a lot. And I was eating a time like and I was eating like I would eat meat for like, you know, breakfast, lunch and dinner and I mean, just like that. Never really sat all that right with me because certainly, like had chickens growing up and I couldn't imagine, like slaughtering one of those chickens and like, slaughtering one of those chickens would be like, way better than eating like factory, you know, raised meat.
00:35:14:12 - 00:35:33:22
Unknown
So yeah, the kind of the ethical part was like the biggest. And then, you know, there's there's a million reasons I think that kind of like played into it for me a little bit. And then you know, Killeen is a vegetarian I'm pretty certain. Yeah. Killing the vegetarian I believe Jim Walmsley is a vegetarian. Obviously it's got jerks of vegan.
00:35:34:00 - 00:35:55:14
Unknown
And so, you know, at least I was like, okay, like at least, you know, some people are able to pull it off at a high level and it's maybe not a like I almost feel like for those guys, like if they thought eating meat was better, they would do it, you know? So that was kind of a I always was worried it would affect my performance because I focus on eating meat and protein for so long.
00:35:55:16 - 00:36:12:06
Unknown
But, you know, I wasn't lifting as much at the time. And I feel like once you get a ton of miles in your legs, like the level of like you, know, muscular breakdown and distress, like running day to day, just, you know, kind of just goes this is very little. So it wasn't like a huge, huge need for protein anymore.
00:36:12:08 - 00:36:42:07
Unknown
So yeah, that was that was pretty much what led me to it. Yeah, I've experimented with a lot of different diets. I've tried vegan, I've tried vegetarian, I've even done Carnivore for a bit. Like ketogenic, like all over the place. And I know for myself, like naturally I'm quite like a more muscular, like larger individual for a climber and the sports I tend to do and if I do eat a much more plant based vegetarian kind of style diet, I feel really good and I lose mass that I'm looking to lose.
00:36:42:09 - 00:37:03:08
Unknown
But I do have these just really strong cravings for meat and there are some times where I just feel eating meat feels really, really good for my body. So I really enjoy that. But I'm wondering, have you ever looked into and I'm guessing you have, but like considerations for, you know, creatine, carnitine, like choline, like iron content and stuff.
00:37:03:08 - 00:37:25:05
Unknown
Do you supplement are you concerned with that as a vegetarian at all or not really vitamin D as well? Obviously. Yeah. So relative to being a vegetarian or relevant to be a vegetarian, I do supplement creatine, iron and B12. I mean, I don't even I honestly I don't even know what those other things you named were. Maybe that's something I should be, I should be supplementing.
00:37:25:05 - 00:37:48:23
Unknown
But it's funny because I have never once craved meat, but interesting. Yeah, I red meat sometimes just there's like, this primal urge to just read steak. It's just so good and amazing like, you know, and personally, like, I am interested in hunting and probably the world's least successful hunter of all time. So I would be willing to kill an animal myself.
00:37:48:23 - 00:38:10:18
Unknown
I just am so far proven incompetent and not capable of doing it. But I'm working on that. But but yeah, those are just some considerations I thought about. One of the thing I'm actually really interested in. I think I saw a friend of yours. I can't remember who it is posted that you recommended they take. I think it was glucosamine.
00:38:10:18 - 00:38:32:17
Unknown
Right. And yeah. And it was starting to help their joints. Do you take glucosamine for yourself? And could you maybe tell me any anecdotes of your own personal experience with that? I do. I mean, I don't I don't have any. I mean, I just think it's important. You know, a lot of thought, I think, is put into like getting supplements that may be like increased performance.
00:38:32:19 - 00:39:06:12
Unknown
But I think like one of the best things you can do is like work on like preventing injury such that, you know, you can train at a higher volume and and train more consistently. So, you know, I have experienced some issues with with joint pain in the past and the supplements I found, you know, studies back and like that I found helped with me for me was glucosamine and then, you know, some supplementing like omega threes as like the other thing And I found like both of those like, well I've been looking into that recently like both, both Kyle and I have dealt with traumatic injury.
00:39:06:12 - 00:39:30:02
Unknown
You know, we both like that's the inception of this podcast. You know, I shattered my ankle, Kyle shattered his ankle. Really not great for endurance running in my previous endeavors. But, you know, I've read a couple of studies recently and also Erik horses alluded to this where there is actually studies in efficacy of glucosamine, either reducing joint pain or reducing the degradation or deterioration of the joint itself.
00:39:30:02 - 00:39:47:10
Unknown
And the same thing with omega three fatty acid. And so actually at the behest of reading your posts. And then his thing for to initially you know kind of in unison, I went out, I was just at Costco the other day and bought a whole bunch of glucosamine and I was like, I was like, Jack and Eric said, like, I'm doing it now.
00:39:47:12 - 00:40:19:23
Unknown
I've sold. I don't even care. So, you know, you know, hopefully, hopefully my, my ankles magically feel better. But, you know, I really I'm pretty hopeful. I think the efficacy is pretty high uncertain of those products. You know, there's a lot of snake oil out there. But I do think the core things we talked about, which is, you know, iron, vitamin B, creatine, fish oil, glucosamine, collagen, whey protein, all those those products are reasonably well priced and have long term studies and high efficacy in in the use of the product for sports performance and stuff.
00:40:20:05 - 00:40:37:11
Unknown
I think there's a lot of other stuff that is very, very shady and people should probably not be spending their money on. But it also depends on where you get it too. Like buying supplements at like Walmart, you could say glucosamine on there, but you don't know what the fuck's in there. It's just so. So I think sourcing it is another big thing.
00:40:37:11 - 00:41:00:10
Unknown
You got to you know, there's a reason why certain suppliers are paid more. Obviously, there's people that are charging for things that are, you know, too expensive. But there's there's a sweet spot there. But Jack, I'm curious, have you have you been injured other than this biologics, all this before? Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of like had every single overuse injury you've had.
00:41:00:11 - 00:41:33:12
Unknown
You can have like I've had it once. It's typically transitioning from skiing to running season. Fortunately, this year, like, not very much. But I've had just like, you know, 80 band issues, I've had like para syndrome, I've had shin splints, I've had Achilles tendonitis. Yeah varying flavors of like knee pain, fortunately, never, never any like, stress fractures or like actual tears or, you know, no real traumatic injuries.
00:41:33:14 - 00:41:54:17
Unknown
I mean, part of that, I think part it partially the traumatic injury thing. I think part of it is could be, you know, just like not, you know, putting myself not, you know, injuring like not crashing or something. And then I think part of it is, you know, could be the supplementation. I think most likely it comes from like the strength training and just like having very robust like connective tissues from that.
00:41:54:19 - 00:42:16:08
Unknown
But so outside of outside of prevention, what could you pass along to someone listening that might be going through, you know, similar stress injuries or something like. Yes, in terms of so in my experience, pretty much, you know, you know, all the overuse injuries are pretty much seen have either been reversed as a result of like increasing volume way too quickly.
00:42:16:10 - 00:42:44:18
Unknown
And then but most typically, it's because of like some sort of muscular imbalance. And so I find like especially with knee pain, like I really like I dunno if you guys have heard of like the physical trainer or like Instagram influencer, like knees over toes guy. I really like his programing and that's like helped me a ton and it's just incredible like how often, you know, people will get injured, they'll rest for a while and then they'll try to train again and like the injury will still be there.
00:42:44:20 - 00:43:10:22
Unknown
And it's only like when you really get in there and like, do P.T. off have to do things like alleviate themselves. I mean, some injuries, you know, like especially like, you know, bone stress injuries a lot of times are going to be from, you know, increasing volume too quickly. But yeah and and you know, the been I, I was using the best way to strengthen your bones and connective tissues is is weightlifting like that that puts the best wrestling.
00:43:10:22 - 00:43:26:09
Unknown
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. And I do agree with you I think a lot of most people's injuries or continued like pain during workout is through muscle imbalances. I was a CrossFit coach for a while and that was like that was a number one thing. It's like, all right, you're quad dominant. You don't use your posterior chain. Let's fix.
00:43:26:09 - 00:43:49:16
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. Stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely. So I'll caveat a couple of these questions here with obviously your, your training volume and you know, the things you're doing are no way relevant to, you know, people should not be trying to emulate this. These questions are simply just out of curiosity as an individual, training needs to be specified to the individual.
00:43:49:18 - 00:44:13:05
Unknown
But I am wondering, you know, what's kind of the current training volume that you do maintain right now? Like, do you like a time? And then also maybe test score on training peaks? And then I'm wondering, have you ever done any VO2 testing, which I know is that correlated to your, you know, endurance performance stuff? But I'm just curious, you know, I've never I've never done any testing.
00:44:13:05 - 00:44:30:23
Unknown
I so when I was in the Navy, it was actually available for free and I was going to go do it. And then like my buddy who was like a very good runner, he told me he was like, you know, yeah, you could go. He like, knows how my brain thinks, I think. And he's like, Yeah, you could go in there and like, you could get a good number and you could be happy with it or you could get a bad number.
00:44:30:23 - 00:44:52:04
Unknown
And then it's like in your head for the rest of your life, even though it really doesn't matter, you know, a ton. So I never now I'm kind of like now I, I feel like validated in my own head enough where I don't really I wouldn't care what the number is. I would just be curious. So I would I would like to get tested at some point, but no, I never I've never been tested.
00:44:52:06 - 00:45:21:09
Unknown
Training volume right now, to be completely honest, I'm I'm really not even sure because like, just working backwards, like I raced the Grand Teton round trip for time last Wednesday, the two weeks before that were a horrific long taper. The week before that, I did the grand like six times in a week and then like a week before that or two weeks before that were probably pretty normal.
00:45:21:09 - 00:45:48:12
Unknown
And then I was like I had the back injury I was dealing with. And then you go before that and I was like coming back from Denali. So like my training hasn't been amazing recently. I would say this summer, if anything, like in the past, I've been, you know, kind of focused a ton on aerobic volume. And this summer I tried bring down the volume a little bit and try to go into the grand like a little bit fresher in some ways.
00:45:48:12 - 00:46:16:21
Unknown
And so I was doing like I was doing like, well, I guess, yeah. So since I came back from that, also since early June, I was doing like probably, you know, 20 hours maybe of total movement per week. And of that, two of those would be like kind of like lactate, you know, or 2 hours of that would be like lactate, you know, kind of like threshold workout.
00:46:16:21 - 00:46:35:21
Unknown
So like the total volume of work for those is like between like maybe 50 and 70 minutes. And then one of those hours during the week would be like a super short, like very high intensity, like power, you know, hill sprint session where it would be like 12 reps of like, you know, 12 second, you know, hill sprints before that.
00:46:35:21 - 00:47:01:14
Unknown
Like, you know, over the winter I was doing like in preparation for, for really Rainier because like between Rainier and Denali, like my training wasn't, wasn't, wasn't super great. I just like came out of Rainier like carrying a ton of fatigue and I was like, trying to sleep super high and, like, wasn't recovering amazing, but like, from like January, from, like, December until Rainier, it was like, generally speaking, it was like two of those kind of threshold workouts per week.
00:47:01:14 - 00:47:37:01
Unknown
And then like, the total ski volume was like, you know, 25 hours or something a week. I mean, really, you know, let's call it like 23 to 25 hours per week. But yeah, I mean, like, so interesting. I just appreciate that. I appreciate hearing sometimes it's nice to know what the athletes are doing and stuff. And like, I just wanted to rephrase face that question because, you know, people if you if you don't know training methodology, you don't understand that you should never be looking at elite or, you know, very high end individuals and trying to emulate anything they're doing.
00:47:37:01 - 00:47:55:16
Unknown
It's complete nonsense. You know, it doesn't make any sense, obviously. But I am always curious on a comparison level to hear like what are some of these people doing? What are they finding success with, with their physiology and their body? And obviously, there's some consistencies. If you're going to be doing really, really hard things, you can see that people are maintaining these really, really high training volumes.
00:47:55:16 - 00:48:27:05
Unknown
Right? But I think this is a good Segway, you know, to get into. Maybe if you could explain a little bit about how did you, you know, go from, you know, what we've been talking about to, you know, this individual wearing his underwear smashed in up hills, you know, crushing, crushing facts and, you know, going for this. Like what what what really inspired you about efforts and and how did you get into them and and Yeah, take us through that a little bit.
00:48:27:06 - 00:48:49:15
Unknown
Yeah. So I did a I did an ultra I mean so I did an ultra in April of 2018 and then after that, like, I mean I just wasn't, I wasn't super into it because like, I didn't look into I remember I didn't look into I was still in training for the Navy, but I didn't look into doing any more races that year and, you know, just did.
00:48:49:15 - 00:49:08:03
Unknown
So, Cal, you know, there's like a number of, like peaks between like ten and 11,000 feet that are really just like walk ups. And I did a couple of those and kind of really liked really like that and kind of like the idea of like racing those like made a lot of sense to me. And so then in 2019 I did a handful of ultras.
00:49:08:03 - 00:49:28:11
Unknown
But, you know, I mean, I just wasn't you know, there were non technical races and I was always just a little drawn to little stuff. There's a little bit more technical. So then in 2020, you know, I initially I did look at doing some races over in Bosnia, but a lot of them did end up getting canceled. And I just I really just fell in love with kind of like running the terrain over there.
00:49:28:11 - 00:49:48:10
Unknown
And I was like, you know, it was much more I just found it much more esthetic, you know, to kind of like make up some of these lines that either people had been doing for a long time or people have been racing for a while or were culturally significant in some way. So that was kind of the the first kind of like intensive, kind of like f k t focus.
00:49:48:10 - 00:50:07:23
Unknown
And then when I came back to the U.S., I just like you never really, never really thought about it. I mean, like in 2021, I did consider doing any races and, you know, there's just so many like in the Northeast, like there's not a ton like in the Northeast, like the most technical mountainous terrain is like super heavily protected.
00:50:08:01 - 00:50:33:15
Unknown
And so there's just like not a ton of super technical trail races to do. So yeah, it always just appealed to me to kind of like to do the more technical and like more esthetic lines and then, you know, it just kind of slowly just kind of went from went from there. I mean, I just it's funny because I like I'm thinking about redoing it after I did back in August of 2021.
00:50:33:15 - 00:50:53:02
Unknown
And so I like re listen to a podcast I did right after it because I was kind of curious, like because I listed like the water and caffeine and other nutrition. I took. And it was funny because during that podcast, like I mentioned, like someday going for like the Ranier and Shasta and Hood Ski records, which is kind of funny because I, I guess I had skied Mt. Hood at that point, but I'd never been on any of those other.
00:50:53:05 - 00:51:15:06
Unknown
I hadn't really spent much time out west. So, yeah, I mean, I don't know, like the skills and fitness that you need to like race on running up and down technical terrain in the Northeast isn't that different from, you know, all the other stuff I've been doing, the snow stuff, you know? Yeah, the skills are a little bit different, but the mindset is pretty much the, the same and the fitness is the same pretty much.
00:51:15:08 - 00:51:35:22
Unknown
What about facts is an allure to you outside of like competitive racing, like, you know, competing with a group of people versus going after an K? Yeah, I mean, I always go back and forth about this question because I, you know, people ask me this a number of times and I always try to figure out the right answer that like really covers it.
00:51:36:00 - 00:51:54:20
Unknown
I don't know. I just like when I look at like the races that exists, I just, I just I really like the facts because, like, you really have to commit yourself to like learning the route a lot of times. And of course, if you had a non technical line, you don't really need to do that. But if you're racing something technical, you really have to commit yourself to the terrain 100%.
00:51:54:20 - 00:52:15:22
Unknown
Like really learn it intimately. And that I've always that has always appealed to me. You know, I don't like the idea. I mean, maybe I'm just like too independent and contrarian, but like when I think about going over and racing in Europe, like, I just hate the idea of like having like, mandatory gear or like being told what to do in any capacity.
00:52:16:00 - 00:52:35:16
Unknown
I don't like being able to choose my own weather like, you know, being larger like I do, you know, suffer in the heat a lot more. And I'd hate to just get saddled with like a hot day and like, personally, like in many contexts, like, I'd like to be going for the course record and I would just hate to, you know, to go on a day where it's just like the conditions just aren't as good.
00:52:35:18 - 00:53:02:18
Unknown
And I think kind of the last thing is, you know, like, I just I would I would hate to do a race and, you know, put down a good time on the course or something like that or and then, you know, just have the race course just change the next year. And it's just like what you did just kind of is like a it's just very fleeting and temporary where like, you know, you go and race like the presidential traverse in New Hampshire and like that hasn't changed in like, I don't know, 50 years.
00:53:02:18 - 00:53:28:21
Unknown
And it's like probably never going to change like that line. And that's kind of cool to kind of like put your name on something that's going to exist, you know, basically forever. Do you foresee a future where, you know, athletes such as yourself have becomes kind of more mainstream to start targeting factors as opposed to just running race circuits, maybe whether that's like entering professional realms and careers and sponsorships and all that, Do you do you foresee that in the future?
00:53:29:02 - 00:53:53:18
Unknown
Yeah, that's always my dream, you know, I mean, certainly as a climbing podcast like you guys, I'm sure, like it just bothers me how like people always look to Europe, Like it's like, that's the way we should do it. It's like the way the fucking French do it. And it's like, Jesus Christ, like not fucking doing that. And so it's like with trail running, it's like, you know, the land just like, isn't, you know, what would be our equivalent of like, YouTube?
00:53:53:19 - 00:54:22:16
Unknown
It would be like, of course, like on the Wonderland Trail or something around Mount Rainier and like, you know, that's just never going to exist in the United States. So, like, the most esthetic lines, I'll always be outside of races. But yeah, no, that's always been my dream. And that's like one of the reasons I do facts like is because, you know, it's just to kind of like bring some more kind of respect to them in many ways, you know, because I talk I talk to runners who are sponsored, who don't want to go, you know, and do the races that are associated with their brand, you know, And they they're they're almost forced to
00:54:22:16 - 00:54:43:05
Unknown
do it, you know, essentially. And they would they would rather do some of these like T lines. And they just you know, they they you know, it's not that they almost they can't, but they have to do other projects. And you know, they would suffer a bit financially maybe if they prioritize that stuff. So that's my dream. And I think I think it'll probably be the case.
00:54:43:05 - 00:54:59:13
Unknown
Like I could see like in 30 years, like the top, you know, American runners, like they're not going to do what I'm doing most likely, but like, hey, they'll go over and like, maybe they'll race like a European ski machine and then it'll come back like a little bit early. They'll do like some longer work and then the like go race, like running or hood or something.
00:54:59:13 - 00:55:24:21
Unknown
I could totally kind of see that type of thing happening. I, yeah, I, I recently watched this documentary, I think it's called The Deepest Breath. I think it's on Netflix. It's really interesting. It's about free diving, right? And so it's this this woman, I think she's from Italy. She kind of breaks all these amazing free diving records. But then there's this one place, I think it's in Africa or Egypt called the Blue Arch.
00:55:24:23 - 00:55:49:17
Unknown
And it's some it's the most renowned essentially thing for some of the best free divers in the world is I think it's like 50 meters down and it's 50 meters across and 50. Yeah, it's just this absolutely insane arch underwater, but it's completely outside of competition. It has this kind this xem this resemblance of essentially an f k t or something, right?
00:55:49:17 - 00:56:14:02
Unknown
It's this school. This is being outside of. It's this thing outside of competition. Like, hundreds of people have died trying to do this. So I can foresee a future where obviously there's the pro and the running circuit, but it's going to become kind of like not just a status symbol. Also, you want to do it for yourself personally, but it's like the high end pros will have these objectives of, Hey, I want to have a really good time on some of these facts or these courses, right?
00:56:14:02 - 00:56:33:09
Unknown
Like that's really renowned. It's really you're very established to have like a good time on some of these really renowned, just esthetic, beautiful lines that are kind of done outside of the course. Right? So I don't know. That'd be really awesome. I think f t's are so sick personally. So, you know, they they captivate me more than than the racing does.
00:56:33:09 - 00:56:58:07
Unknown
Like, I enjoy watching racing and YouTube Western states, you know, hard rock, all that kind of stuff is amazing to see and to see what the athletes are doing. But ultimately, just watching people choose really crazy esthetic lines and wait out the conditions and look at all the data and everything and just, you know, have the patience and the training to to go for those kind of objectives are really pretty amazing.
00:56:58:09 - 00:57:20:19
Unknown
So I think you can correct me if I'm wrong on the timeline. Oh, yeah, sorry. You go, Kyle. Jack So I got a question on logistics for filming or capturing some of these facts. There's a social media viral post going around of this guy. He's like holding a gamble and he's running alongside the men doing the 100 meters sprint, and he's like, right alongside them.
00:57:20:19 - 00:57:48:16
Unknown
Have you seen that video? I'm sure anybody in this somebody has seen this and it's like really funny. Do you have a cameraman that's like running next to you during the day and filming you during during your sets on these things? Like talk to us a little bit about, you know, the logistics of of documenting these. Yeah. So if you do the only the only two things I think that I've done that have been documented well okay three that have been documented any depth were like the 100 mile thing.
00:57:48:16 - 00:58:03:02
Unknown
I didn't in New Hampshire last June which like nothing was really done with that footage. Like there's like a little like three minute clip of it on YouTube. And that was just, you know, just like, dude, I'm friends with Andrew Drummond in New Hampshire who just, like, came and just like met me on course a number of times and just filmed.
00:58:03:02 - 00:58:28:12
Unknown
And then why did the Bob Graham there were some photographers that came out for that and took stills of that. And then we did film the Grand Teton attempt. You know, of course it was like the thing that I certainly put the most effort into filming, and it was also, you know, a giant whiff. So it's like, damn it, like, you know, you do like you do like a million things that like, don't get filmed at all.
00:58:28:12 - 00:58:52:23
Unknown
And then you film one thing and it's like, you know, it doesn't like it, but yeah, yeah, no. So for that, yeah, we just had a number of people just kind of like meet me on the route and, and just, and just film it. But yeah, some of, you know, some of the people who met me were extremely fast and were able to keep up for fairly, you know, decent sections of it.
00:58:53:01 - 00:59:14:15
Unknown
The fastest guy who was out there. And fortunately, unfortunately, like the speed and like camera skills, you know, weren't terribly correlated because he like, kept up with me on like a pretty good section, the downhill. But the camera was not on. So. Yeah, but yeah, no, I mean, I was kind of torn whether I wanted to film that.
00:59:14:16 - 00:59:31:09
Unknown
Anything on the grand. I mean, I wasn't getting any, no one was making any money from it. So it was like, Oh, okay, this would just be something, you know, I mean, it's some and, you know, part of it is just like, you know, in my mind, you know, some some people I talked to are just like that kind of like cheapens a little bit if you film it.
00:59:31:09 - 00:59:47:17
Unknown
Like, this is just best to stay off a film. But like, I mean, I really like Killian's Matterhorn film. I think it's like, incredible and like, you know, I mean, I don't know, like, dude, I mean, cinema is my that cinema is my job. Like, you know, capturing moments, capturing moments like that is like what it's all about.
00:59:47:17 - 01:00:06:06
Unknown
So do you ever need someone for something big? Let me know. No. So, yeah, Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah, yeah. We had people. Yeah, we had people like some people like left at like 1 a.m. to get up there to film that thing in time, you know, it was kind of a kind of a headache.
01:00:06:08 - 01:00:28:09
Unknown
So yeah, logistics are insane. Yeah. Especially for something like that that's covering so much higher. You need a lot of, a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Or drones later on For sure. For sure. For sure. Yeah. But yeah. Max, bring us back. Yeah. So I guess what I was wondering like obviously so you know, for me, I'm really interested in your affect on Denali.
01:00:28:09 - 01:00:44:02
Unknown
You know, I was fortunate enough to be on the mountain and, and meet you there. That was very, very fun. You know, I'd been following you for the year on a lot of the eighties and stuff you were doing. So I found it quite fortuitous when I was on the mountain. And, you know, we're like our summer day climbing up.
01:00:44:02 - 01:01:05:13
Unknown
And I knew like just random people, I'm talking to you and everybody kind of knew like, Oh shit, Like, I think Jack's going to like, go today. And people were kind of stoked for their summit. And sure enough, you know, you show up in this like rush suit and just fucking motoring along and huffing me like this slug just barely moving and you just rocketed by so very well.
01:01:05:13 - 01:01:23:00
Unknown
It was a cool experience just personally to be there. Oh, dude, I mean, quite accurate. I think I was in like the sun had just come out. I was in way too many layers, way too hot. I'd just gone by the autobahn and then, you know, you just showed up and were like, like by me in 2 seconds.
01:01:23:00 - 01:01:42:12
Unknown
I was just like, Yeah. And that you like, Yeah, go, man. But it was just the contract. I was like, this Michelin man and like, layers, and you're just like, in, like your underwear just ripping by. But, you know, I'm wondering, it's it seemed like you had quite a planned year to get there, so I'd love to. I'd love to.
01:01:42:12 - 01:02:02:01
Unknown
I'd love to ruminate, you know, on on that a little bit. But if we can just go quickly into what was your thought process to get you to Denali for the when was the inception of this idea and did you use, you know, Shasta Rainier? I think you did Hood as well. I could be wrong, but you can you can fill in all the details.
01:02:02:03 - 01:02:26:14
Unknown
Yeah. Were those all kind of stepping stones intended to build into this or like, when did that? When did the inception of that? Yeah. You know, it's funny. That's something what you just said is something I never thought of until, like, afterwards. Like, to me, it was like, you know, to me, like Shasta and Rainier were, like, much better physical tests, which is something I skewed towards.
01:02:26:14 - 01:02:50:10
Unknown
You know, I prefer a little bit more is something a bit more physical. Whereas in Denali was just like this fun thing, like I just kind of tacked on to the end of my season because like with Denali, it's like, you know, you can't go into it. Like, you can't go into it like that. Many plans. So you can't put too much pressure on it because like, the weather could just never materialized or you could just I mean, you can just like fuck it up in a million different ways.
01:02:50:11 - 01:03:13:10
Unknown
Like it's just so you got to get so lucky. And like, I just I knew it was kind of like, you know, I don't even know if this is going to work. I mean, it's just really funny because, like, you know, just to what you were saying about documenting Kyle, like, I wish, you know, I have a friend who said, like, every time he goes for a race or f k t like he sits down and he writes like a big journal entry, you know, and I didn't do that for Denali.
01:03:13:10 - 01:03:35:16
Unknown
Like, I can barely even remember, like, what I was thinking. I mean, I kind of can, but like, I don't even really know, like, what the thought was there. But yeah, I mean, I mean, I look at in many ways like Rainier as like a better effort than Denali, like Rainier is. I think my most proud like ski mo kind of achievement.
01:03:35:18 - 01:03:52:18
Unknown
Whereas Denali like it was like a great, you know, kind of, you know, culmination of like everything I'd been kind of like learning and everything. But at the same time, like just so much of it is, is, is kind of like up there, whereas like Rainier, like, you know, pretty much every year you're going to get a good you're going to get a good window up there.
01:03:52:22 - 01:04:13:03
Unknown
You know, it's very accessible, like tons of people can race it. Whereas Denali, like only a handful of people have raced it. And a lot of it's just going to come down to luck, which is which is tricky. So but it is real quick for for just a juxtaposition on on like your time up and down and Max's time up and down and what are we talking here?
01:04:13:03 - 01:04:34:02
Unknown
What was the what was the difference? Well, I mean, to be to be fair, I mean, like I mean, I don't care about fairness. Like, well, it's like there's no there's nothing here. There's completely difference is completely different situations. I just want to know where like so I want to hear the depth to answer this question. So Ray and I slept at five.
01:04:34:04 - 01:04:58:15
Unknown
I think it's 17 K camp, 5200 meters. And our ascent from 52 to the summit and back was around 10 hours. So Jack went from base camp to the top of the mountain all the way back down. In the time that I went from 5200 meters to 6190 and back to do different things in perspective. So, you know, when I say that dudes rock and and by in his underwear, it's a pretty fair description.
01:04:58:15 - 01:05:24:06
Unknown
Honestly that I don't mean I don't mean to say I don't mean to put you down, Max at all. That was it the point. I just want it to, like more and more lifted Jack up in a way, and just like, really paint the picture there saying it does what he did. And even if I tried Jack style, I feel like my time would be like 30 plus hours as I crawled out of Heartbreak Hill up into the the thing if I've managed to survive.
01:05:24:06 - 01:05:49:05
Unknown
But yeah, can you correct me if you're wrong here? So I think you had some issues with a group member moving from 3300 to 4200 meters, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So I was I mean, I'd really like to say I was in like a first off, can I, can I just say one thing? I, I saw a video of you hauling two sleds up to the 440 200 meter camp.
01:05:49:07 - 01:06:09:11
Unknown
Can you just explain what in the name of God, what's going on there? And then and then answer the secondary question? Okay. Yeah. So like, what happened there was well, okay, let me just so I had I had like four people in my group at the last second, two of them declined the question. Two of them, you know, me and the other guy just to ski off the summit.
01:06:09:13 - 01:06:28:01
Unknown
So the last second we split our groups up, the casino guys went up early and we went up like they flew on May 18th, flew on like May 25th. So it was me and my buddy, like Zach McCarthy, who lives in New Hampshire at sea level, and he had like slept in a hypoxic oh, prior. He had gone to Bolivia for like, you know, about a like a week prior.
01:06:28:04 - 01:06:48:08
Unknown
He was like 11,000 feet. And then, yeah, we went up there and, you know, I mean, I just, you know, it was kind of a dumb ass about it. And I kind of figured the worst thing that could happen to him if we just went, you know, really quickly up to 14 is you would just sleep poorly maybe for a couple of nights, and then he would just get over it.
01:06:48:10 - 01:07:09:10
Unknown
And, you know, I mean, you can like as you know, somebody died this season, you know, going up to 14,000 feet too quickly, know, and sleeping up there. So, yeah. So what happened was in that the problem was and, you know, Zach is like a great guy. He's super fat. Like the biggest Zach's biggest issue he had on this trip was that he went on the trip with me.
01:07:09:10 - 01:07:29:11
Unknown
That was the real problem. It was like nothing to do with Zach. And so, you know, it's like I've been at 11,000 feet in Colorado, so to me, like sleeping in a below 11,000 feet is like taking a giant step back that I'm going to have like a panic attack after, you know, I was in Talkeetna and our flight got delayed a day and I was like calling people in Anchorage.
01:07:29:11 - 01:07:47:04
Unknown
I was like, I need you to like, I'm going to pay like $1,000 you to drive a hypoxia. Go up to Talkeetna, right now because I cannot sleep at sea level. I know the night and fortunately, like, day, but like Zach, you know, guys allergic to sea level. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, now I'm. Now I'm down here. It's great, you know, now I got, you know, now I'm loving it.
01:07:47:04 - 01:08:16:00
Unknown
But Zach, like, you know, he his like altitude symptoms, you know, presented like, I mean, just like he was like, very emotional. And so, like, my first thought, I was like, this guy's just being a bitch, you know? And it was like, kind of, like, bothering me. And then, you know, I talked to a Ranger and he's like, No, that's like, that's like, he's like, almost got hace and like, that's, like his symptoms, like, you know, he's not, that's not like, you know, him just being soft.
01:08:16:00 - 01:08:42:12
Unknown
And so, yeah. So when we were going up to 14 camp, you know, he was just really suffering from the altitude. He was like super, you know, a dehydrate at the time. Like we we hadn't ate in a while and, you know, I was just so frustrated with the situation and so, like, pissed off and like, again, like, I can only blame myself for this shit because he was basically coming from sea level and I'd been living at 11,000 feet that I was just like, you know what?
01:08:42:12 - 01:09:04:14
Unknown
Just like, fucking give me your sled. And I like, strapped his sled to my sled and I like up, you know, the windy corner from like, you know, just like a little bit above, like the top of Squirrel Hill. And it was so much And, you know, the funny part was, are we we put the sled on. I put the second sled on and I see this party ahead of us.
01:09:04:14 - 01:09:32:04
Unknown
And I was like, Oh, I'm passing these motherfuckers. So yeah. So anyway, we passed these people and like, poor Zach and I got to the top and it, it almost ripped my entire hip off my back. But yeah, no. So that was that. And then, you know, we went up to 14 and we slept there a night and I went down to 11 to try to retrieve a cache with one of my the other four, the one of the guys who was doing the casino, Nathan Longhurst.
01:09:32:04 - 01:09:56:18
Unknown
And by the time we got up to back up to 14, so Zach had been at 14 for about 24 hours at that point, like he had, he had like when I left 14,000 foot camp, he was just sleeping. And when I got back up to 14,000 foot camp, you know, he had slept in until like noon. And when I got back up, you know, he was awake, but he was like he was he was, you know, just I mean, he was like almost like he was just so out of it.
01:09:56:20 - 01:10:20:23
Unknown
And and, you know, I talked to some guides and some guides are like, you know, you'd probably be better by the morning. And then I we got in, talked to the Ranger and the Rangers, like, look, like if I touch him, you guys are like, both getting kicked off the mountain and like, Zach was like, you know, was like, I really, you know, Zach, you know, through his, through his whatever, you know, through his he's, he kind of he's like, I really don't want that to happen.
01:10:20:23 - 01:10:38:03
Unknown
Like, we have to prevent that from happening because, like, you know, he was concerned about my trip and, and so I went and talked to Jordan Cargill, a ranger who knew a Ranger, a guy who knew Zach from New Hampshire. And like Jordan was kind of talking to me, like kind of going back and forth. And he's like, what do you want me to tell Zach?
01:10:38:03 - 01:10:51:23
Unknown
And I was like, Look, just like, tell him like, you know, whatever you think is right. And so we go over and talk to Zach and he talks exactly like 2 seconds. And then he immediately pulls me away and he's like, You need to take him down to like fucking 11,000 feet, like, immediately, Like, no question. And like, it was so damn cold.
01:10:51:23 - 01:11:07:16
Unknown
Like it was snowing, like. But yeah, I took him down to 11. He, I spent the night with him at 11 and then the next day my tree is okay. He spent, I went back up to 14. He spent the next night at 11 and then the following morning. He was still feeling super poorly. And so I took him down to the airstrip and he.
01:11:07:16 - 01:11:35:02
Unknown
He flew out so. Well. Yeah. What was your assent plot to 4200 meters. How many? Yeah. You got to do the conversion we spent. So we landed on the airstrip that night. We were at 8900 feet. The next we had 11,014. So three days. Three days to 14 essentially. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's really fast. It's doable.
01:11:35:02 - 01:11:55:20
Unknown
I know other people went three days. I think we were, I think did five days or something but I'm but a mere mortal you know. Well you weren't living like, you know, like I'm, I mean I had been living at my, I had been living above 8000 feet since like December 1st, like with that intention of that. And like, a lot of that was spent between nine and 11,000 feet and I'd been going up to 14 a ton.
01:11:55:20 - 01:12:28:19
Unknown
So, yeah, I mean, I'd prepared for it for a long time. So did you do an acclimation run to 5000 meters prior to your attempt? Yeah. Just to say one of the thing on Zach, I mean yeah. Other than that like Yeah, like everything went, I just, I don't want to make it sound like. Yeah, he was, he was a great person to have out there, but just the altitude was an issue and then after at all, like he let us use a ton of his gear and we got back to the States and I went to give his gear back to him and I somehow lost the damn tent that he brought all the
01:12:28:19 - 01:12:47:01
Unknown
way up there. So That was like an 810. I was out of the window. So poor Zach went to fucking Alaska. I dragged him up to 14,000 feet pretty quickly. He felt absolutely horrible. And then I lost, like, you know, hundreds, hundreds of dollars worth of equipment that he left with me. So, yeah. Dude, you sound like a great friend, Jack.
01:12:47:01 - 01:13:13:04
Unknown
You know, you're a good guy. Yeah. Hey, thanks, man. This podcast just killed any future attempt at high altitude skiing with, like, 50 people. Yeah, that's true. I got to the top. It's not like, okay, I'm never going to side ever again in my life, but, yeah, I'm sorry. What was what was your question before again? So you did I think you did one acclimation run up rescue Gully right.
01:13:13:04 - 01:13:36:13
Unknown
Yes. You skied rescue one for my original. So that's above five. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went up to the top of rescue that one time and then, you know. Yeah, it was just like the weather, you know, I think people are aware, like the summiting percentage on Denali was only 32% this year. You know, it was it was extremely I don't know, it was a record low, but it was very low.
01:13:36:19 - 01:14:01:19
Unknown
And, you know, just like whether it was a a giant issue and then yeah, no, I did that acclimatization run up and then, you know, the focus was after that was like trying to put in a safe line through the crevasses going up rescue. And I had that about like halfway done. And then all of a sudden, like one day we woke up and we were looking at the forecast for the next day and the forecast looked really good.
01:14:01:19 - 01:14:14:07
Unknown
And I texted Mark Postal, who's got it up there for like eight years. And I was like, you know, what do you think? And he's like, Yeah, you have to go for it then. So I was like, okay, you know, I didn't plan on going for it for several more days, but I'm very happy I went for it that day.
01:14:14:07 - 01:14:34:18
Unknown
So no, yeah, I just didn't didn't have that. I wish I had gone up higher. I wish I'd summited, but now I didn't have the chance. So did you like how what would you classify this for? In fact, like, unsupported, supported? What gear did you have with you starting at the, you know, the height at the very base, at the airstrip?
01:14:35:00 - 01:14:53:22
Unknown
And did you receive any support along the route? Did you boil water for yourself? Like can you explain a little bit about that? Yeah. So I followed the exact same style that Kilian did when he did it. So Killian style was he carried all of his gear and food up and down the mountain, and the only thing he took on route was, was water.
01:14:54:00 - 01:15:17:10
Unknown
So there a in my Strava activity, there's like a full, like, exact list of the gear. But I can tell you like there was a bunch of stuff I brought and didn't use, but the stuff I did use was just I started in a pair of heated socks, heated tights and like a Patagonia like grid fleece hoodie and, you know, a helmet on.
01:15:17:12 - 01:15:43:19
Unknown
And then I had like full carbon ski boots and like Eskimo race skis and carbon ski poles. And then, you know, my only kind of like clothing modifications were like on the lower glacier. I took my my top off. And then at 10,000 feet, I basically went through like a pretty bad, you know, blizzard essentially between, you know, going by in the pass between nine and thousand feet.
01:15:43:21 - 01:16:07:12
Unknown
I put the top back on and I put on like super, you know, super, you know, warm mittens down mittens. And and then I took those off probably at about like Squirrel Hill area. And I didn't put the mittens back on until like 17 camp. And at 17 camp I turned on like the heated tights and heated socks.
01:16:07:13 - 01:16:25:14
Unknown
And then the only other thing I put on was I put on like a pretty large parka, like on the summit ridge, because like, I was just very I was like kind of addled mentally and physically. I was super weak. And so I became really concerned about like me skiing down successfully. So I was like, okay, there's a good chance I'm going to fall.
01:16:25:14 - 01:16:48:15
Unknown
And like if I'm wearing, you know, just a glorified sun hoodie, I'm probably going to freeze to death. So I put this parka on. But honestly, I was like, quite I was quite warm. But yeah, the only other thing other than what I mentioned was I had like a ski race ax that I just like, you know, full of all strapped, whatever, ski strapped to my pole, like at the base of motorcycle, I think is when I did that.
01:16:48:17 - 01:17:13:00
Unknown
Yeah. So what I think when we when I spoke to you at Talkeetna, I think you said you did about 350 calories an hour and you were trying to drink quite a few of those calories. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So. Oh, so that's something I didn't mention, which I don't know if completely necessary, but I wore a a running belt during this.
01:17:13:00 - 01:17:29:00
Unknown
So I had a Eskimo pack on, but I also had a running belt on and I stored all of my nutrition in the belt. And then I like, put my you know, it's against my skin. And then I put my, you know, the skirt of like the hooded fleece thing over the running belt just to keep it kind of insulated, to keep it from melting.
01:17:29:00 - 01:17:53:03
Unknown
But yeah, I think it was primarily was liquid calories. I think I stayed pretty good on 3500 calories, 3500, 350 calories per hour until I probably hit about 18,000 feet. And then between 18 and the finish like or between about 18 five, 19 and the finish, I probably only had you know, that probably took me was trying to do the math.
01:17:53:03 - 01:18:24:12
Unknown
I mean, that probably took me, you know, two and a half, 3 hours, you know, between 18, 19 and the finish. And I only had maybe 200 during that. Like it was very, very little. So yeah. How much how much water did you consume. Totally on your. Oh, I think I started with I think I started with a leader and a half and then maybe I grabbed I think this might be my straw of maybe I grabbed two liters at 14 camp, maybe it was three and a half liters.
01:18:24:12 - 01:18:41:19
Unknown
I can't for the whole three, three and a half liters for the total day. I think that's about. That sounds about right. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I think maybe there's an estimate at my Strava, but that sounds. I couldn't imagine I would have started with more than two liters. And I definitely did not get more than two liters at the camp.
01:18:41:19 - 01:19:05:03
Unknown
And I did not stop on the way down. So. Oh, it just to the support. Yeah. So sub sub. Sorry. Just to the support we Yeah. Sub 400. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And just the support question you asked earlier so Yeah I had a manual Ross who is in our little team of four. He put out some water for me at 14 camp and while I was going past 14 like I just basically drank.
01:19:05:03 - 01:19:20:02
Unknown
I think I, I think I might have drank some water when I was there, but, you know, I just didn't haven't put out a ton of water. And I kind of needed more so than Alex King ran out of water over to me. So by definition, it's supported. But really, like, I didn't take full advantage of that label.
01:19:20:02 - 01:19:43:05
Unknown
Like that was you know, it was it was more or less self supported. Yeah. How how hypoxic did you feel at the summit where you just tired or did did you actually where did you have a level of concern at all given your exertion. Yeah. So I kind of felt like I don't know if you guys ever played like the online like game years ago, like queue up, you know.
01:19:43:05 - 01:20:02:03
Unknown
Q Or if anybody ever played that or heard of that. Okay. So it's like, it's like you, you're like, you know, forcing this character to run and you're like doing a race, but you like control, like the arms and legs independently and you have to, like, push each one in the sequence to like, move forward. And that's what I felt like I was doing.
01:20:02:03 - 01:20:17:16
Unknown
Like I'd be like, okay, move my arm forward, move farther on for like, more like work. I was like, doing that. And then I was like, purse breathing person, like, breathing like as hard as I could. And I felt like that really, really helped. Like basically just like, hyperventilating for, like, you know, I don't know what, two or 3 hours up there, but no.
01:20:17:17 - 01:20:37:12
Unknown
And I remember I got to the summit like, yeah, I felt very wobbly kind of on my legs and. I just really I did not trust my judgment, you know, at all. Like, you know, above 17, I think you encounter a lot of a lot of features in skiing that you really can't find anywhere else in North America.
01:20:37:14 - 01:20:54:10
Unknown
You know, there's just like these huge, like steep like wind lips and like really firm snow. And I was like, God, I'm probably going to fall, like, trying to do this. Even like the skiing, like, is quite trivial in many contexts. It's just like it's either like, really exposed or like, extremely firm. It's just like, or it's just really high.
01:20:54:10 - 01:21:12:20
Unknown
And so, no, I found it very tricky. And like when I got to the top, like, I was just, you know, this is why, like, it's just really hard for me, like, you know, because I'm very into the physical performance side. It's really hard almost to be proud of this effort because, like, you know, just look at me like videos of me skiing down and it's like, looks like the most like geriatric thing ever.
01:21:12:20 - 01:21:44:00
Unknown
You know, like if you went to Vail and went to, like, the easiest bunny slope, you'd see people skiing like I was skiing on top of Denali, like it looked like and like, you know, ski down. Just survival. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I ski down, I ski down. You know the can help the warm, you know, the upper summit pitch and then I like you know got about, you know, just to the base of like that little rise on the far side and you know right after the football field and I remember just like taking my skis off and it was like a, you know, a six year old, you know, at a
01:21:44:00 - 01:22:02:12
Unknown
ski resort. You know, it was like really, like angry that his parents dragged him skiing. And I'm just like, dragging my skis behind me, my poles behind me. You know, I was just like, so done. So it wasn't until I, like, got back down to 14 that I actually felt, you know, like a human being again. Wow. Yeah.
01:22:02:18 - 01:22:22:08
Unknown
So how how did you find skiing the Autobahn? Did you just side slip the whole thing the way, like, all the way down? Yeah. You know, so it was kind of scary, honestly. Like, I had never observed snow that term before in my life. And so on the way up, I was like, Oh my God, am I going be able to hold an edge on this?
01:22:22:08 - 01:22:40:14
Unknown
And like, fortunately, you know, for better or worse, the snow above the Autobahn was that firm also. So like, I got some practice, like kind of like skiing on that. And I was like, okay, like I'll never be able to hold an edge. All right. But yeah, no, the Autobahn was scary because it's just like it's just one of those situations which just feels so mellow.
01:22:40:16 - 01:22:59:02
Unknown
But, you know, at any second, like if you just, like, go over a win lap weird or hit a picket or, you know, whatever else, catch an edge, anything, you start sliding. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be probably like more or less, like instantly fatal, you know, I don't know if you be able to do any sort of self reference there, so.
01:22:59:04 - 01:23:34:05
Unknown
Yeah, no, I found it. I found it quite. Yeah, I found it quite frightening. Yeah. So. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, man. I mean it's, it's quite a crazy experience. You know, obviously I'm, I'm sure, you know, comparing yourself as an athlete, it's not really necessary, but there's something really fulfilling and interesting about, you know, beating Killian's time, obviously, you know, I just hold him as an athlete is just like essentially the Michael Jordan of endurance, you know, mountain sports.
01:23:34:07 - 01:24:13:10
Unknown
So, you know, beating a time like that is something just very, very amazing and very impressive. How do you feel about that? Have you have you corresponded with Killian at all out of curiosity? I HAVE Yeah, a little bit. You know, it's just it's just tough to say because like, the question that pisses me off them, like, is just it's just really tricky because like, you know, in many ways until I race Kilian kind of like on the same day in the same conditions, like, you know, even if I were to like, beat Kilian, like in that context, I'm sure part of me being like, oh, but like I couldn't it competed with like 20,
01:24:13:10 - 01:24:30:18
Unknown
20 kill, you know, 20, 21 Kilian or something like, you know, it's just like it's always that goal post is probably always going to move, you know, And I'll probably never be able to in many ways kind of like get there because like, you know, Kilian had much worse weather than I did. You know, that was kind of the big kind of problem there.
01:24:30:18 - 01:24:48:22
Unknown
And I doubt Kilian was as well acclimatized, you know, And like, this is the stuff that goes into this record is like I'd like to it to be basically like a5k, but it's not, you know, it's like it is a test of how well you can acclimatize and plan the weather and everything else. So yeah, you know, I have, you know, infinite respect for Kilian.
01:24:48:22 - 01:25:05:05
Unknown
You know, he's accomplished, you know, an incredible amount of stuff. And yeah, I mean it it feels it feels pretty good. But yeah, that asterisk is always, you know, it's like, oh, you know what? If Kelly and I started at the same time, you know what? I really have beaten them. You know, it's like, okay, we have the same conditions.
01:25:05:05 - 01:25:36:02
Unknown
But yeah, of course, on some level I think I totally get what you're saying. You know, it's not really a it's not a measurement of being able to say like am, you know, air quotes faster than Kilian. It's like just on this day, given this given time in these conditions, I have the opportunity for things to fall in line to be able to beat his time, you know, whether Kilian wanted to dedicate the next two years trying to beat the time and, you know, waiting for good conditions, you know, I think we could assume certain things might happen.
01:25:36:02 - 01:26:12:11
Unknown
So I'm not really saying it in that sense. I just think it's still given the caliber of athlete he is. It's still just quite an amazing accomplishment. Do you do you feel like that in some way or like is it something that set in is a large accomplishment in your life or. Yeah, no, no, no, for sure. I mean, it is funny though, because like when I see people on the you know, like when people do like, recognize me randomly, like it's usually for Denali, which I just always think is so funny because it's just like, you know, as I said before, it's just like not competitive, but, you know, yeah, I mean, like, you
01:26:12:11 - 01:26:37:23
Unknown
know, there are I got a blanket on the dude's name right now. I'm pretty sure Alex Low like had had a record maybe on the West Buttress. You know, certainly there have been a number like, very, you know, talented, well accomplished mountaineers whose time, you know, essentially I beat on the mountain. So there you know that there is once you kind of place it in that context, you know, it does it does it does become more meaningful, obviously.
01:26:37:23 - 01:27:04:12
Unknown
You know, Carl Egloff, you know, the same thing with Carl Egloff is like Carl eyeglass. You know, he still has the ascent record on the mountain. You know, I, I was about, I think like 14 minutes slower or something like that going up. And so, you know, I don't I don't like to pay attention to this yet but like, you know, you'd go and I would look on like, you know, Instagram or like news articles and people would be in the comments and be like, oh, but like, you know, Carl was faster on the uphill and like, if he had skis, like you could go faster down.
01:27:04:12 - 01:27:21:04
Unknown
It's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was carrying my skis up there, you know, it's like you can just play this like really, really dumb game all the time. So I wish, I almost wish in some context I was more proud of it. But it's like every time, it's almost like every time I accomplish something like this, it just becomes meaningless.
01:27:21:04 - 01:27:50:19
Unknown
Like immediately afterwards. Yeah, I think. I think obviously, you know, I don't have the the physical prowess or the accolades or anything remotely the individuals like you or other athletes. But I think that does, I would say is probably a commonality among most athletes, is that, yeah, they they're very driven. You know, they get these things and that's like right away the next thing you know, or diminish the accomplishment or quite at least in mountain sports, I find people are very humble.
01:27:51:01 - 01:28:12:03
Unknown
You know, they're they're always, you know, analyzing so many things. There's so many variables to the sport. So, I don't know, maybe you feel that way or not. But, you know, I guess we're getting closer to the end here and want to be respectful of your time and but I guess I'm just wondering, you know, like you just did the this this recent attempt on the Getty in the Grand Tetons.
01:28:12:03 - 01:28:31:16
Unknown
And so know what's in future, what's in store for you? What do you see yourself you know, have you thought about what you want to focus on for the next couple of years? Yeah, I mean, just kind of to what we were saying before. Like, I just increasingly feel like I do have to go and race these guys at some point kind of on unequal terms.
01:28:31:16 - 01:28:57:07
Unknown
So I think next year probably going to be racing over in Europe. Not certain. You know, at the end of last year, I kind of thought I was going to be doing that. This year. And then I kind of decided to chase in more factors. But like as as I've kind of race more of these things, you know, I think at first I kind of wanted to like, you know, have more baskets and, you know, kind of have a little bit more opportunities to race in case something goes wrong.
01:28:57:07 - 01:29:20:12
Unknown
And I'm kind of get to the point where I'd rather just put down like one really strong effort per year, you know, and really focus on it. So if that is utme, you know, a lot of things bother me about Utme, but if that is utme, then you know, yeah, I just wanted to close off or to Sexy or Jack and just say that, you know, man, I'll be, I'll be watching closely, wishing you the best when you are going and racing.
01:29:20:12 - 01:29:35:03
Unknown
And I think that's such an interesting thing that you're saying you're going to go do and race on the circuit. So it'll be really fascinating to see that and wishing you all the best, man. And I just want to say thanks so much for the time coming on the show. It's been a blast talking with you. It's nice to see you again.
01:29:35:08 - 01:30:13:14
Unknown
And if you're ever on the West Coast or anything, you want somebody to hold a camera or film you do. And something know, please don't hesitate to shout out. I'd love to see you again in person. Maybe get out of the mountains some time and.