Climbing larger mountains, especially ones that are far away from home… takes a lot of planning, training, logistics, and a little bit of luck. We spend months preparing for what sometimes comes down to a single day on a mountain. So what happens when you're 700 ft from the summit, and you realize touching the top might mean you won’t come back? While that seems like an easy choice…. The weight of seemingly wasting months of planning, training, and traveling can be almost too much to bear…This is a decision we are all faced with at some point in our lives as mountain climbers… do we risk everything and continue on? Or do we swallow pride and choose to climb the mountain another day?
This is the exact situation our guest Joshua Kasumovic found himself in high up on what is possibly the most iconic mountains in the world. This is Josh’s story of the Matterhorn.
Become a supporting member of The Climbing Majority to unlock the exclusive full length video of this episode
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Climbing larger mountains, especially ones that are far away from home… takes a lot of planning, training, logistics, and a little bit of luck. We spend months preparing for what sometimes comes down to a single day on a mountain. So what happens when you're 700 ft from the summit, and you realize touching the top might mean you won’t come back? While that seems like an easy choice…. The weight of seemingly wasting months of planning, training, and traveling can be almost too much to bear…This is a decision we are all faced with at some point in our lives as mountain climbers… do we risk everything and continue on? Or do we swallow pride and choose to climb the mountain another day?
This is the exact situation our guest Joshua Kasumovic found himself in high up on what is possibly the most iconic mountains in the world. This is Josh’s story of the Matterhorn.
Become a supporting member of The Climbing Majority to unlock the exclusive full length video of this episode
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:15:13
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. And welcome back to another episode of the Climbing Majority podcast. We just wanted to share a couple of developments that Kyle and I have been working on here. So the climbing majority has been really committed to sound quality and to do that we've been shipping bikes to our guests and the latest evolution of this is going to be video.
00:00:15:17 - 00:00:18:01
Speaker 1
And now Kyle is here to fill you in on the rest.
00:00:18:03 - 00:00:40:03
Speaker 2
Absolutely, Max. And super excited. We've been looking for this advancement for some time. So now we are fully producing full HD video podcasts for certain episodes and these will only be available to our Patreon subscribers. That's right. We are finally launching a Patreon to have a place for you guys to support the show and you know, as a return for your investment and a thank you to you as the audience.
00:00:40:03 - 00:01:05:06
Speaker 2
We are providing these full HD video video podcasts for our Patreon subscribers exclusively, so let us know that you're excited. It's a big step for us. We're really excited to see what you feel, what you think. You know, Let us know. Stay tuned for more. Climbing larger mountains, especially ones that are far away from home, take a lot of planning, training, logistics and a little bit of luck.
00:01:05:08 - 00:01:23:14
Speaker 2
We spend months preparing for what sometimes comes down to a single day on the mountain. So what happens when you're 700 feet from the summit and you realize that touching the top might mean you won't come back? Well, that seems like an easy choice. The weight of seemingly wasting months of planning, training and traveling can be almost too much to bear.
00:01:23:16 - 00:01:42:07
Speaker 2
This is a decision we are all faced with some point in our lives as mountain climbers. Do we risk everything and continue on, or do we swallow our pride and choose to climb the mountain another day? This is the exact situation. Our guest, Joshua Casimir, which found himself in high up on what is possibly the most iconic mountain in the world.
00:01:42:09 - 00:01:47:06
Speaker 2
This is Josh's story of the Matterhorn.
00:01:47:08 - 00:01:59:07
Unknown
And back to the Climbing.
00:01:59:07 - 00:02:10:04
Speaker 2
Majority podcast. We are sitting down here with almost a lifetime friend, someone I could basically call a brother. Welcome to the show, Joshua Maksimovic.
00:02:10:05 - 00:02:25:21
Speaker 4
Yeah, thank you for having me. Super big fan. I love what you're doing. You guys are both crushing. It is episodes and a lot of value to the community, and I think you're telling the right story and following the right riffs. Kyle, you and I have been good friends for a while, and it's an honor to be here.
00:02:25:23 - 00:02:29:20
Speaker 2
Thanks, man. Appreciate that. It's been a long time coming. I'm happy you're here.
00:02:29:22 - 00:02:32:12
Speaker 1
Yes. Stoked to have you on the show, man.
00:02:32:14 - 00:02:45:22
Speaker 2
Sweet. Well, let's just dive right into it. You know, we usually get just a quick background on who you are, how you found climbing and kind of what steps in life kind of led you to where you're sitting right now.
00:02:46:00 - 00:03:01:18
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah. For me, I would just kind of categorize myself as an ordinary guy. I have some extraordinary dreams to climb. Some big mountains and just live an adventurous life as long as I can. And would you say you're part of a professional?
00:03:01:20 - 00:03:03:20
Speaker 2
Would you say you're part of the majority.
00:03:03:22 - 00:03:08:12
Speaker 4
And part of the majority and in the majority?
00:03:08:14 - 00:03:18:05
Speaker 2
So like, what was your childhood like? You know, just give us a quick synopsis of kind of like, you know, what led you to the outdoors and how that process kind of kind of unfolded for you?
00:03:18:07 - 00:03:40:09
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah. I think there's a couple of aspects that kind of led me to climbing in the outdoors. I think that at its root, climbing is a sport and so my background in athletics and like three different sports that really shaped my athletics in three different ways really helped me kind of dive straight into climbing and give me an edge.
00:03:40:09 - 00:04:10:20
Speaker 4
And so for me, those three sports would be wrestling. First one, I did that all through high school and that just really added like a lot of strength, mental toughness, dedication, discipline, understanding, training, and then the one that was before that I was actually quite young was gymnastics. I did gymnastics for a long time and gymnastics as well, especially when you're young, it's just everything you focus on.
00:04:10:20 - 00:04:37:23
Speaker 4
So once again, discipline, training, repetition and really just that body awareness and body control that I think is so important when it comes to being on the wall. And then the last one was later in life. For me, that was also kind of where I was my first foray into endurance, and that was road cycling. So I did competitive road cycling for about three years.
00:04:38:01 - 00:04:51:04
Speaker 4
I had built up to like hundred mile rides. I did road races, crits and time trials. And that also, I think helped me kind of just have this affinity to be in the mountains.
00:04:51:06 - 00:04:56:19
Speaker 2
And at what point did kind of all this intersect into the sport of climbing?
00:04:56:21 - 00:05:28:17
Speaker 4
So it really kind of segued later in life. I got super focused on work. I've been a restaurant professional basically my whole life, and at the time there is a pivotal point in my life where I was just working too many hours, 50, 60, 70 hours as a restaurant manager, slash Somalia and just reached the end of my line there you burnt out, wanted more out of life, wanted to spend more time, you know, on the road and in nature.
00:05:28:17 - 00:05:49:00
Speaker 4
Camping, adventuring. And it was really honestly, when I met you, Kyle, I mean, there were other things that led up to it. But when I met you and we became friends and we were on that camping trip and Valley of the Moon and we climbed there, and I was also seeking a way for my creative outlet through photography to capture like all adventures and things like that.
00:05:49:00 - 00:05:51:06
Speaker 4
That's where we really hit the ground running.
00:05:51:08 - 00:06:02:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we, you know, we met and just started climbing right off the bat and yeah, it's kind of what it's been six years now. So you've been climbing for six years?
00:06:02:05 - 00:06:05:01
Speaker 4
Six, Almost seven, Yeah.
00:06:05:03 - 00:06:25:01
Speaker 1
Something that's interesting that I'm thinking of here is I think about it for myself and lots of people I know in my generation where they talk about this kind of this lifestyle change and wanting to reduce the amount of hours and spend more time in the outdoors and stuff. And I think sometimes that can be misconstrued as, you know, maybe laziness or something.
00:06:25:01 - 00:06:44:20
Speaker 1
But, you know, I was recently watching this this documentary, Laird Hamilton, I think he is a really famous surfer, and he was talking about a period in his life where he wasn't working at all, but he wasn't lazy. Like the average person could not have kept up with what he's doing. And so I think it's interesting because sometimes I think about that with certain things I'm doing, I go, Oh, maybe I should be working more.
00:06:44:20 - 00:07:03:12
Speaker 1
But it's not really actually what I want to be doing right now. And then I kind of assess and analyze my life and I'm actually working really, really hard. Just a lot of things are really unconventional, you know, or don't have renumeration for me, but they're extremely fulfilling in my life and I feel amazing doing them and I'm hoping to monetize this one day.
00:07:03:12 - 00:07:21:16
Speaker 1
But I just thought that this something I was thinking about as you're talking about that reduction of work, it's it's not necessarily in some of these pursuits a reduction in effort. It's just it's just finding more fulfillment or something more out of life that you're not getting from work, if that makes sense to you. Do you resonate with that at all, Josh?
00:07:21:18 - 00:07:48:21
Speaker 4
Absolutely, Man, I think that's a really cool point and a really awesome perspective because it wasn't like I just stopped working, right? I filled all that time and all that energy and creativity with exactly what you're talking about, right? Like, and those are things that are a net positive. You're training your you're taking care of your health, you're eating better, you're sleeping better, you're spending time in nature, which is honestly so helpful and healthy for you.
00:07:48:23 - 00:08:07:19
Speaker 4
So, yeah, you're absolutely right. Like you don't just quit and become lazy. Right. And I even say, like, if I won the lottery and had a bunch of money, like, I want to just stop working, right? I would work on things that bring me, you know, inspiration and passion and, you know, add value to the world. Like, it just doesn't end there.
00:08:07:21 - 00:08:15:16
Speaker 4
It was just that those that work and all that extra hours was adding to my stress. It wasn't building me up and making me a better person.
00:08:15:18 - 00:08:36:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's interesting. I think that it's the sad thing about it, though, is in at least in the short term, you know, making that sacrifice and switching, you know, you take a usually it's a pay cut, right? You know, usually you're you're sacrificing financial gain for, you know, working on your passion. And, you know, sometimes it's worth it.
00:08:36:20 - 00:08:38:05
Speaker 5
Mm hmm.
00:08:38:07 - 00:08:54:02
Speaker 4
Sometimes you have to take that risk. Sometimes, yes, it's a setback. And, you know, sometimes you have to start from square one. But I think it is worth it in, you know, the greatest things in life take risk. And if you don't do it, then you'll just wonder your whole life.
00:08:54:04 - 00:09:12:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Max, I think this reminds me of that gentleman who was in like a like a eight, eight year relationship, and all of a sudden he got a fire to to travel, and then he just, like, left his entire life and went to Bali or whatever it was. I remember that.
00:09:12:04 - 00:09:13:03
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:09:13:05 - 00:09:20:01
Speaker 2
He was on it. He was a guest on the show. I forget it was, it was a Callum. Anyways, the fire truck.
00:09:20:01 - 00:09:22:06
Speaker 5
Guy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:22:08 - 00:09:28:13
Speaker 1
They had like a total difference. I think he was, he enjoyed the birds and they were in a relationship. Yeah. Is that the fundamental difference? Yeah.
00:09:28:13 - 00:09:43:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well he was like they were talking, they were in college and like they were going to be together for a long time. And he's like, You know what? I need to, like, change my life and do exactly what we're talking about and, like, dedicate myself to something that I'm passionate about instead of, you know, just continuing down this path.
00:09:43:19 - 00:09:56:07
Speaker 2
It's a cookie cutter life that's safe. And yeah, I just it's a risk that you have to take at some point in your life, you know, to be fulfilled, at least for some people. And it's just important to take that step. So just reminded me of that story.
00:09:56:08 - 00:10:31:03
Speaker 1
Totally. Yeah. Yeah, I know for sure. Yeah. Is actually living in this beautiful hobby farm in Squamish right now, and they've got this cool shipping container that's been converted out and they've got their, their big red truck. And it's, it's a really, really beautiful place. So it's, it's awesome. So Yeah. But yeah, you know, moving the story along a little bit, progressing it here so you know you guys have met you're building this kind of climbing relationship and you know, and then Josh, you moved to Florida, you know, the amazing mountaineering state of Florida, and you're setting your sights on other objectives.
00:10:31:03 - 00:10:37:13
Speaker 1
So why don't you just, like, fill in the gap a little bit there and and tell us a little bit about, you know, what the focal point of this podcast is today.
00:10:37:13 - 00:10:58:23
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'll jump right into kind of touching on what we're here for. And that is my recent ascent of the Matterhorn, which I worked very hard for and dreamed about for a long time. So I'm very excited to come back from that live. And you know, successful slapping the summit is beautiful experience and also to discuss God.
00:10:59:01 - 00:11:01:13
Speaker 5
That's a good one. Yeah.
00:11:01:15 - 00:11:20:16
Speaker 4
And also discuss about how, you know, I tried it last year and it didn't go as planned and so it's kind of cool to go through the story of adversity and, you know, not giving up on your dream and, you know, giving it another shot. So. So do you want me to kind of go over what it's like in Florida here and prepping for that?
00:11:20:16 - 00:11:21:18
Speaker 4
Because I have lots of little.
00:11:21:18 - 00:11:22:17
Speaker 2
Where I guess where.
00:11:22:17 - 00:11:23:05
Speaker 4
Did that or where.
00:11:23:05 - 00:11:33:13
Speaker 2
Did the where did the conception of the idea start? Like, did you write it down on a piece of paper or, you know, when did the idea I'm going to summit the Matterhorn, like pop into your head?
00:11:33:15 - 00:12:14:10
Speaker 4
Sure. I mean, I think at that gradually built up from just our mountain climbing experience together. Kyle And just our progression there from Capital Peak to the Grand Teton Temple, Crag, Dark Star, all of those inspiring peaks. And, you know, that's actually where my heart lies in Climbing is with the big adventures. There's, you know, 1500, 2000, 2500 foot climbs, multi-day adventures, everything that goes into the planning, the training, how tough you have to be to get up and come back down like everything about that is just so immersive for me and more about the exploration of, you know, that area and yourself.
00:12:14:12 - 00:12:36:09
Speaker 4
So for me, I think it was just leading up to that and I'm always looking for the next big thing. I'd kind of had my sights set on the Alps for a while, and so I just kind of got this idea that I wanted to go out there and climb something, and I don't know why, but I just decided I wanted to climb it by myself and I was just going through the guidebooks.
00:12:36:09 - 00:12:58:16
Speaker 4
And when you flip through the guidebooks and you're going through the Alps, it's very different than, you know, most of the climbs here, because all of them have an approach via a glacier. So you quickly realize that if you're by yourself, you're going to be doing glacier travel by yourself on like 99.9% of these climbs. And the Matterhorn was the only one that didn't have glacier travel from the Horn Valley Hut.
00:12:58:18 - 00:13:17:17
Speaker 4
And so that just ticked all the boxes along with, you know, being well within my realm of free soloing. You know, when you and I would climb, obviously would pitch out the harder pitches. But once it got to about five four, we were on ropes just kind of moving fast through the mountain just to get it done. So I felt very comfortable doing that.
00:13:17:17 - 00:13:35:20
Speaker 4
So that's kind of like the inception of the idea and the progression. The mountain itself is just so iconic and beautiful. It's hard not to want to climb it. It's just a beautiful pyramid, very sharp at the top along Ridgeline that crosses from Italy to Switzerland and so on. Just like it captured my imagination and I went for it.
00:13:35:22 - 00:13:55:00
Speaker 2
Nice tune. Yeah. And you can't exactly, you know, practice glacier travel or, you know, high alpine objectives in the flat state of Florida. So tell us a little bit about how you prepared for this iconic mountain in your situation.
00:13:55:02 - 00:14:20:20
Speaker 4
Yeah, so basically, I had to get creative. A lot of it was, you know, we have climbing gyms here and unfortunately, there's no climbing gym in Miami. So for me to go to the climbing gym, it's actually kind of a mission. It's either like 35 minutes to an hour, depending on which gym I go to. You. Yeah. So I kind of have to tell myself that I'm going to a crag, like, okay, Like I'm driven to some dragged down the road and like, imagine that I'm going outside.
00:14:20:22 - 00:14:41:07
Speaker 4
So I get to climb in gym, run laps, focus on endurance. You know, I would climb hard, but I would also just try to get some volume in. I would go as far as bringing my mountaineering boots because I wanted to be comfortable climbing and those and so I just figured it was better just to bring those. And so anybody said anything which they didn't, I would just get.
00:14:41:07 - 00:14:44:06
Speaker 1
Some good demented looks from people at the gym.
00:14:44:08 - 00:14:45:03
Speaker 5
For sure.
00:14:45:03 - 00:14:51:08
Speaker 4
Yeah, they were like, got some sideways looks for sure. Like what? You know? Yeah, Especially here in Florida. Like he was wearing a mountaineering boot.
00:14:51:08 - 00:15:08:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, quick, quick tangent, you know, not to go too far. Totally. Like in the in the climbing gym in Florida, there are a lot of like climbers like yourself or are they hobbyist like, you know just, just like cage climbing is kind of cool. I'm a gym climber in Florida. Like, are people, you know, seeking outside objectives in other states.
00:15:08:22 - 00:15:36:04
Speaker 4
I would say most of them are going to be just sport climbers, gym climbers, younger kids. You know, some of them definitely are making trips up to like North Carolina or the Red River Gorge and things like that. I have talked to people who are climbing outside. Okay. Not many people are doing mountaineering. I had one guy come up to me and he saw me with like my weight vest on and my mountaineering boots and he like, gave me like a big pat on the back and was super stoked.
00:15:36:04 - 00:15:45:04
Speaker 4
And he had told me some stories about like where he had a kid climbing in the Alps and doing some cool stuff. So that was awesome to see. So they're few and far between.
00:15:45:04 - 00:16:01:02
Speaker 1
Love it. So what would you do to get, you know, obviously the Matterhorn itself, you know, 4000 plus meters peak, you're going to be doing a lot of vertical what were you doing to get vert well in Miami?
00:16:01:04 - 00:16:27:10
Speaker 4
Sure Yeah, that's a difficult one. I think in the beginning I was just, you know, cranking that Stairmaster and also the treadmill basically at the highest degree it could go. And I would slap either backpack in my mountaineering boots or a weight vest on and just try to train as I was. And then I have a friend who he lives in a 44 floor high rise.
00:16:27:12 - 00:16:49:08
Speaker 4
And so I would hit him up. And that was like the best way for me to get there. So same thing mountaineering boots slap on a heart rate monitor and a £40 backpack and just keep myself in zone one, Zone two, and I would just run circles in that thing for about three and a half hours. And my goal was to do the version of the Matterhorn basically in a training session.
00:16:49:10 - 00:17:07:14
Speaker 4
And yeah, it was great. I mean, it's hot, humid, it's a head game because, you know, you're not beautiful, you're not on a hike, you're just stuck in a hole with your thoughts and it's not pleasant. So I just in a twisted way, made it fun. And honestly, I loved it. You know, it ended up like my calves would be sore for like three days after doing that.
00:17:07:14 - 00:17:08:14
Speaker 4
It was great exercise.
00:17:08:14 - 00:17:14:07
Speaker 2
So now how many flights did you end up having to do? What was the what was the comparison?
00:17:14:09 - 00:17:18:05
Speaker 4
My Max flight was 366 or.
00:17:18:10 - 00:17:21:05
Speaker 2
Wow. And that was up and back down the matter.
00:17:21:05 - 00:17:22:11
Speaker 4
Up and back down. Yes.
00:17:22:11 - 00:17:25:04
Speaker 2
Wow. And you did that once or twice.
00:17:25:06 - 00:17:26:05
Speaker 4
Twice.
00:17:26:07 - 00:17:27:23
Speaker 5
Nice.
00:17:28:01 - 00:17:32:15
Speaker 2
Nice. Yeah. It takes a man to do it twice.
00:17:32:17 - 00:17:33:05
Speaker 5
Yeah. I mean.
00:17:33:05 - 00:17:37:03
Speaker 4
And I'm going to do it again. I mean, because, you know, we have so many going to do, right?
00:17:37:06 - 00:17:42:20
Speaker 2
I got to at least get to do different staircases and different in different buildings. Are you staying at the same home?
00:17:42:22 - 00:17:48:22
Speaker 4
That's the same thing. I don't think it would matter. I think all these staircases just look the same and you just go in a circle.
00:17:49:00 - 00:17:51:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It'd be nice if you could do one that's outside. Yeah.
00:17:51:18 - 00:17:52:04
Speaker 4
For sure.
00:17:52:07 - 00:18:14:17
Speaker 1
I think something that's interesting is, you know, I've heard of staircases being used very effectively for people even climbing Himalayan peaks because it's such a controlled environment where you just have this consistency to the training that's actually quite in some ways beneficial. And I think previously we've spoken, Josh, and you kind of alluded to the fact that there's a lot of mental training that goes in to just be in this hot environment.
00:18:14:17 - 00:18:32:20
Speaker 1
No nice views. You're not in the mountains and you're just grinding out the laps. The exact same thing over and over again. And that's a really interesting thing, kind of the mental fortitude and resilience. You know. Just out of curiosity, would you ever envision yourself climbing the Matterhorn? Will climbing the set of stairs?
00:18:32:22 - 00:18:49:03
Speaker 4
Absolutely. Absolutely. I think visually visualization is key. I think would happen a lot. Even happened in the stairwell. I would think about it when I was on my long runs. I mean, I think actually it's always in my mind when I was training, like that's what I would focus on. You know, you go to bed thinking.
00:18:49:05 - 00:18:57:06
Speaker 2
Max, this guy, this guy's password for his computer for the longest time was vision. And it still is my password on my.
00:18:57:06 - 00:18:57:19
Speaker 5
Computer.
00:18:57:19 - 00:19:12:14
Speaker 2
Because of what it stood for. And I think that that was one thing that Joshua, like, really taught me was having a vision for the future and like, thinking about things. And that was like, that was something that I pulled away from our friendship for sure. So this guy's definitely on the Matterhorn while he's in those stairs.
00:19:12:16 - 00:19:15:03
Speaker 4
Nice. Thanks, Steve.
00:19:15:05 - 00:19:44:18
Speaker 1
That's awesome, man. No, I completely concur. I think visualization and seeing yourself doing things that kind of mental work is extremely important. So. So, okay, so we've got we've got this story here. We got two attempts on the Matterhorn, right? So the first time, how are you feeling physically going into it the first time? And maybe if you could explain what that process was like going there, you know, deciding to do it solo and kind of just take us through that a little bit right now?
00:19:44:20 - 00:20:09:18
Speaker 4
Sure. So physically at that time, I felt like I was in some of the best shape of my life, honestly, You know, I was going to Muscle Beach multiple times a week doing calisthenics. Like my body control was great, climbing was great, endurance was the best had been basically since I was in the road cycling competitions. So I was feeling confident going into it.
00:20:09:20 - 00:20:27:14
Speaker 4
Obviously being by myself on the mountain, that was the first time I've ever done anything like that so low. And then, you know, you're watching the weather patterns before you get there. You know, even months before I was just kind of seeing what was going on. And then you get closer and closer and you see what's kind of forming.
00:20:27:16 - 00:20:49:15
Speaker 4
And our flight flew into Venice, Italy, and then we were to drive from Venice to Zermatt. I mean, I was trying to based on the weather, I was actually trying to figure out the best time for us to go is Vermont to make it, because this trip was actually not like a strictly mountaineering trip. It was a vacation with my girlfriend, with a sprinkle of mountain, you know, So I had to balance my girlfriend.
00:20:49:15 - 00:20:50:19
Speaker 5
And how much.
00:20:50:19 - 00:20:53:16
Speaker 1
Did she appreciate that?
00:20:53:18 - 00:20:54:15
Speaker 4
She loved it, man.
00:20:54:15 - 00:20:56:21
Speaker 1
She was all about are you still together? Broader question.
00:20:56:21 - 00:20:58:15
Speaker 5
There we are.
00:20:58:16 - 00:21:02:03
Speaker 4
Yeah, we are. And how things are really good.
00:21:02:05 - 00:21:03:08
Speaker 5
Okay. Good for.
00:21:03:08 - 00:21:03:20
Speaker 1
You guys.
00:21:04:00 - 00:21:20:07
Speaker 5
Mean definitely. Yeah. Babe, come on. We're going on this vacation is so great. Like, one week in, like, so I'm going to climb the Matterhorn.
00:21:20:09 - 00:21:26:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. You don't say anything until the last minute. You're like the night before. You're like, Oh, so we're at the base. I'm just going to go up there.
00:21:26:13 - 00:21:30:18
Speaker 5
I'll see you tomorrow. Yeah, maybe.
00:21:30:20 - 00:21:38:01
Speaker 1
Just invite her for a nice gondola ride, and then you just, like, keep going up.
00:21:38:02 - 00:21:40:22
Speaker 5
Yeah. So, yeah, she's a good.
00:21:40:22 - 00:21:57:20
Speaker 4
Sport for sure. Okay. I'm lucky to have her, so. Yeah, you know, basically leading up to that climb, there is a bit of pressure because, you know, I had never been there. I didn't understand how the weather worked in that area. And I think every place is a little different and you can only trust the weather man so much.
00:21:57:20 - 00:22:21:01
Speaker 4
But from what I was looking at, it looked like, you know, there's bad weather coming in. And from previous climbs, I had never really felt like, Kyle, you and I put too much of an emphasis on acclimatizing. I think we're in pretty good shape. We would stay the night for the climb and we would just go for it and, you know, I think we had some altitude effects, but it never was anything that like, shut us down.
00:22:21:03 - 00:22:41:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, we were living in Aspen, you know, we were like, living in the mountains for quite some time. And Jackson, you know, you're up in the mountains. So I think that, you know, the acclimatization for us wasn't as necessary because we we already lived in the mountains and we also had to go in for, you know, 16,000, you know, 20,000 foot peaks where, you know, if you don't acclimatize, you're going to bonk.
00:22:41:02 - 00:22:43:18
Speaker 2
So I think we get we squeaked by for sure.
00:22:43:23 - 00:23:01:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, definitely. And so I was feeling confident, man. And I just was like, I got to get up there. I got like a couple of days to get there. We flew into Venice. I drove straight to Zermatt. We spent the night the next day I rented an E mountain bike because that was my plan. I wasn't going to stay at the only hut.
00:23:01:04 - 00:23:21:02
Speaker 4
I was going to ride this mountain bike up to the sports hut. So that day that I basically I did that ride the day before. And so I mapped out exactly where I was going to be. I knew the trail because the next day I'm doing it in the pitch dark. And so I rode the the E mountain bike up to the top of the sports lift.
00:23:21:04 - 00:23:43:17
Speaker 4
I hung out for like 15 minutes and then came back down, had a good meal, went to bed, and then the next day I'm on it. What time you set out on the climb? I got up at 230 in the morning, 230 in the morning. And by my math, I was hoping to get there at like 430, you know.
00:23:43:19 - 00:23:48:04
Speaker 2
Estate, you know, real reality versus expectation. What time to show up.
00:23:48:06 - 00:24:16:20
Speaker 4
I showed up at like 515. So, you know, and I stopped at 515. That was pretty good. I moved. Yeah. Yes. Like, like the hike from the sports I left to the mountain to the Hallie Hut is supposed to take around 2 hours. I think I did it in, like an hour and a half. Like I was moving really fast and I definitely had the throttle on the whole time on the mountain bike and those things, they help to go uphill, but it's not easy.
00:24:16:23 - 00:24:37:22
Speaker 4
Especially steep sections. There is there's points where it was so steep and the gravel was so loose that I had to get off the bike and push it well. And so just to give you an idea of like the level of exertion that I went through and those like 3 hours of pushing, you know, I was I was already tired, like even on the hike, like my quad was starting to cramp up and I could feel some things setting in.
00:24:38:00 - 00:24:53:10
Speaker 4
And it wasn't an electrolyte thing. Like I had plenty of electrolytes. I was drinking plenty of water, like my nutrition was on point. It was just that I was like pushing myself so hard and I get to the base of the climb and, you know, my goal was to be with people. My goal was to follow people that was going to help.
00:24:53:15 - 00:25:07:00
Speaker 4
And, you know, I'm not afraid of route finding, but it just would have made the ascent that much easier. And I could see headlamps. But they were, you know, they were ahead of me and I followed them for a little bit. But the sun was coming up soon. It was still dark, but it was going to come up soon.
00:25:07:00 - 00:25:16:21
Speaker 4
And then I was going to lose them. So I just set out and I was at that point I was on a proper adventure. I was on my own. Nobody else just navigating that thing by myself.
00:25:16:23 - 00:25:31:21
Speaker 2
What is the So to talk to us a little bit about kind of the the route description as it were, like, you know, what does the beginning look like? Kind of what are the crux and what is what is the features of this climb, you know, represent and how does it look?
00:25:31:23 - 00:26:00:15
Speaker 4
Sure. So basically, it's relatively at for a climber, the grade is relatively easy throughout the whole climb. It's like they call it like a scramble of enormous proportions. It's mostly fourth and low fifth class. And, you know, the route is relatively laced up. There's a series of ropes that are basically the thickness of like a gym climbing rope situated in some of the harder sections.
00:26:00:15 - 00:26:28:23
Speaker 4
And there's also stanchions that are used for protection. Those can be like rebar tea bars or little loops that you can clip into and hitch and bring your partner up. So there's a series of all of those things throughout the whole mountain that the crux is are a little higher up on the mountain. You have the Moseley slabs, there's the upper and the lower Moseley slabs which are around the Solvay hut and the Solvay is kind of they call it like the halfway point.
00:26:29:01 - 00:26:54:03
Speaker 4
It's not actually the halfway point, but based on like difficulty getting there versus difficulty above that point, it's like that's where you want to be about halfway through the day. And so, you know, you start off that climb and you're immediately in a steeper climb, Like that's the start. You're in a steep rope climb, you're hanging off the edge and it's committing, you know, if you're leading it or if you're soloing it like I was in the dark, you're on edge.
00:26:54:03 - 00:27:18:20
Speaker 4
Because if you slip off that thing, it's not going to be pretty. And so you do you like a steep rope climb and the shimmy to the left you traverse, then you traverse back up and then you're on the rock and then from there, once you don't have the ropes, it's fall en route, finding, you know, if you know what you're looking for and you've been on the mountains before, you can kind of see, based on the amount of traffic on this mountain, that there's some polished rocks where the foot beat a been, where the hands have been.
00:27:18:20 - 00:27:41:10
Speaker 4
So there's kind of a path for you to follow. But that can also be deceiving because there's so many people on that mountain that there's just as polished pass for the wrong routes that people are taking. Right? So you have to really be discerning about where you're going. And to me, that's the biggest crux of the whole thing is just knowing where you are on the mountain at all times.
00:27:41:12 - 00:27:59:04
Speaker 4
And I would say on that first ascent I got, I probably got lost several times and I was able to like weave my way back up because, you know, when you're not on, they're out because the rock quality gets really bad. I really scary. So the better the rock is, the more likely you are on the correct path.
00:27:59:06 - 00:28:02:21
Speaker 4
And you know, I was able to stay more of the conditions.
00:28:02:21 - 00:28:05:04
Speaker 1
Like for you on your first attempt.
00:28:05:06 - 00:28:22:02
Speaker 4
Hmm. The conditions for me were good as far as like, weather. I had a beautiful, beautiful bluebird day. I mean, it was cold in the morning. I definitely had my gloves on. I had to keep moving, but it wasn't very windy. And when the sun came out, it was. It was warm.
00:28:22:02 - 00:28:26:15
Speaker 1
Is there ice? And snow on the road? Like what? What what is the kind of the rock like?
00:28:26:19 - 00:28:57:07
Speaker 4
So the rock is clean and dry up to a certain point. So it doesn't really get snow. And like technically icy and alpine icy up until above the shoulder. So you had the Solvay huts and then a little bit further up you have the shoulder. And the shoulder is actually where I turned around on my first ascent. So I got to the shoulder about 1230 in the afternoon, you know, And at that point, I'm like not thinking clearly at the altitude, just getting to my head.
00:28:57:07 - 00:29:17:21
Speaker 4
I'm I'm doing what I call mountain math, trying to figure out like how much time I have left or how long I've been on the mountain. And, you know, at that point, I'm like, I'm pretty much looking at the summit. I'm only like 700 feet from the top. It's not very far. I can see people up there. And so I'm trying to figure out like, okay, like, can I get up there in an hour and back down?
00:29:17:23 - 00:29:37:01
Speaker 4
But, you know, by my standards, and just from everything I know and everything I've done, it was just too late to proceed. And I didn't want to sleep on the mountain. There was like just a lot of things. I also, you know, was talking to other climbers on the way up that got benighted. They low telegraph like there's just a lot of things in my head that I was just like, I don't want to do this.
00:29:37:01 - 00:29:52:03
Speaker 4
And so it was a tough decision to make. I think I thought about it for probably, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes on the shoulder thinking about it, which made it even worse. But, you know, I made the decision to turn around and I came down.
00:29:52:04 - 00:29:53:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's.
00:29:53:22 - 00:30:19:07
Speaker 1
It. That's awesome. And I think that's like one of the biggest takeaways for me in modern mountain culture is just promoting that kind of ethos that we need to be looking at the mountains from a long term perspective. I want to do this for the next 20, 30 years, coming from someone who had a serious injury, it's kind of maybe a little funny or hypocritical, but if you're looking in these long term goals, well, then, you know, I might have ten opportunities to climb the Matterhorn.
00:30:19:07 - 00:30:37:13
Speaker 1
So why would I go risk my life to go climb this right now? You know, like, if you're if you're looking at things from a long term perspective, it's never worth it to just go kill yourself to try and get, you know, this single summit ahead of you or to risk some serious situation just because, oh, like you got a little mountain fever, right?
00:30:37:19 - 00:30:59:00
Speaker 1
It just doesn't make sense. And I think promoting that in modern culture, you know, is is something that I see that's so positive in the mountain community. And additionally, as well, like it's all building to your experience. You know, the people I know who are the most experienced tend to have the most of those stories. They're they're always, oh, I had to bail on this route.
00:30:59:00 - 00:31:12:06
Speaker 1
I had this or, you know, they just have so many stories because they're getting out all the time, you know, and then they make the right decision and they bail. Go listen to people who have like 40 bail stories and they're like competent and stuff. They're usually super experienced. But also to.
00:31:12:06 - 00:31:33:00
Speaker 2
Play to play devil's advocate a little bit, though, I think that, you know, just to, you know, to play the other side of the coin here, it's you know, the summit does matter. And I think it's not an easy decision to just be like, oh, you know, like, you know, I need to to safety today. I'm going to go back down, you know, whatever it's chill, you know, like, you know, speaking for you, Josh, like, you know, you live in Florida, it's like you're here.
00:31:33:00 - 00:31:56:20
Speaker 2
You are across the freaking globe standing 700 feet from this objective that you've been training for, planning for prepping for. And, you know, you're you're deciding to turn around and have to do it all over again. Like that's a huge decision, you know, And it's not like you're up against, you know, this really sketchy goalie or, you know, this really super technical climb.
00:31:56:20 - 00:32:20:03
Speaker 2
Like, you know, it is technical and you're there, you really close, it's within reach. And, you know, you're you're grappling with this decision on whether to turn around or not. And so I just it's it's it you know, I can definitely feel how hard that decision was. But, you know, to Max's point, I think that, you know, we do need to promote, you know, that decision.
00:32:20:03 - 00:32:34:10
Speaker 2
I think that, you know, if who knows, maybe if you went up, you know, you would have gotten benighted or you would have gotten lost and maybe you wouldn't be sitting in this chair today like we know we'll never really know. But in the end, you know, it's not worth not being able to come back like next set.
00:32:34:10 - 00:32:49:13
Speaker 2
So I guess talk to us a little bit about a little bit more deeper into like this decision, like what ended up being the reason for turning around and talk to us about like how that decision affected you after you got back.
00:32:49:15 - 00:33:11:18
Speaker 4
Ultimately, it was the amount of time I had left, or at least psychologically, time and energy. So I was at this point quite tired and I knew that I was moving slowly, very slowly. I mean, I shouldn't have I should have been at the top by the time I was at the shoulder, you know. So I already knew that that was slow.
00:33:11:20 - 00:33:30:16
Speaker 4
And I just, you know, I want to be responsible mountaineer, you know, And I think like like you said, we should promote making the right decisions and not endangering yourself. Not endangering SA Like, you know, it's not just you, right? And you also I have my girlfriend down in, you know, the valley, you know, do I really want to risk it and make her worry?
00:33:30:18 - 00:33:49:20
Speaker 4
You know, I have my family at home so it's I'm not just thinking about myself. I'm thinking about everybody around me and, you know, realizing that I'm breathing heavy. I'm basically wheezing. You know, I probably have some level of hypoxic stuff going on because I'm not thinking straight. And so who knows what would happen if I kept going.
00:33:49:20 - 00:34:06:13
Speaker 4
So all of these things are kind of going through my head, but at the same time, everything that you're touching on, Kyle is also weighing on me. Like, you know, I did come from Florida, I did spend a lot of money on this trip. I put so much energy and time into it. All my friends and family are thinking about me climbing the mountain and I'm have to come back and tell them that I did it.
00:34:06:13 - 00:34:27:18
Speaker 4
So all of that is hard. And then, you know, you make what you think is the right decision. And I know that it was the right decision. But even with that, it's very hard to accept it once you're back down. And even once I got back to Miami, like it stuck with me for a few months, it affected me, you know, in my day to day, just like it was in my head.
00:34:27:20 - 00:34:50:11
Speaker 4
You know, I really, really wanted that that summit. And I didn't get it. And honestly, it didn't stick with me so much that I was actually planning my return back to the Matterhorn the whole year. I actually had kind of let that go and was kind of thinking of some other ideas. And then it wasn't until maybe like four months from when I was going to be taking another vacation, I was like, You know what?
00:34:50:11 - 00:35:04:19
Speaker 4
Like, I don't want to climb another mountain because I was looking at other mountains and I was like, I don't want to climb another mountain until I climb this one. And so I just said, Fuck it. And I just went after it and I came back sick.
00:35:04:22 - 00:35:06:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, man.
00:35:06:11 - 00:35:33:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's awesome, man. Yeah. No, that's really, really awesome. I love the story. You know, the build up of getting into here, and we're going to, like, go give this another shot, right? It's it's really awesome. So I was kind of wondering, So you've gone back home, you've made the decision, I'm going to go out again, you know, were there any considerations of I'm, you know, what did you learn from that experience and what kind of how did that shape your decisions moving forward?
00:35:33:10 - 00:36:00:01
Speaker 4
Yeah. So after going there, after seeing Zermatt, after seeing Sharmini and, you know, had the amazing trip with my girlfriend, which is a great vacation, we saw Italy, Switzerland and France and, you know, drove around the whole time I realized that I need my mountain trips to be mountain trips. And so, like, I just I was like, I'm going for two weeks to the Alps to climb and to prepare for this mountain.
00:36:00:05 - 00:36:19:18
Speaker 4
You know, I'm going to be in Germany training and acclimating and, you know, getting on some rock and leading pitches and doing small type pitches. So what I learned is that I really wanted to immerse myself in that environment and in tune with the environment and give myself the largest window to deal with weather changes and the adjustments that I did working out the kinks and that.
00:36:19:18 - 00:36:25:08
Speaker 4
So that was probably the biggest thing was just like I wanted to be fully prepared to get into the mountain.
00:36:25:09 - 00:36:50:12
Speaker 2
So what that's all about? Yeah. What, what did you like? What was that like? What was that process like? Like, how did you structure your approach to getting back on the Matterhorn, whether that be, you know, the did you train, did you change your training protocol? Like, so what what changes did you make to to kind of make this second trip, you know, more likely to be a success.
00:36:50:14 - 00:36:52:10
Speaker 4
Before I got there in Miami? Yeah.
00:36:52:10 - 00:36:57:02
Speaker 2
Let's start before you before you went back, like in Miami. What what were the changes that you made?
00:36:57:04 - 00:37:21:01
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah, I would say I amplified the endurance. I really focused on endurance. My running got way better. Like before the last time, I've never been a runner and actually I've grown more fond of it lately. And running has always been a weakness for me and. I'm actually, like, loving it and really getting my body in tune with it.
00:37:21:01 - 00:37:43:03
Speaker 4
It's just so much different than cycling. And so pre the first climb, you know, I was running like three miles. That was a lot for me. And now pre this climb, I'm running like eight pretty easily without any pain and like just keeping it zone to like doing good. So picking up the volume and running And then also I pick the volume up in those staircases.
00:37:43:05 - 00:38:07:17
Speaker 4
I mean pre the first time I wasn't doing 366 fours, I think I did it. I think I did three times up and down, which is like 150, right. Yeah. So it wasn't anything close to what I was doing this time. So I doubled up on everything, endurance. That was like I knew that was the biggest thing. I had the climbing ability, but I just wanted to make sure that I had the endurance to last that climb this big.
00:38:07:19 - 00:38:14:05
Speaker 4
And so I just wanted like I wanted to have fuel in the tank when I got back down. That was the goal.
00:38:14:07 - 00:38:23:10
Speaker 2
And then how what did it look like when you got to the Alps? Like me, I guess. Talk to us briefly about kind of some objectives you chose and why you chose them.
00:38:23:12 - 00:38:44:01
Speaker 4
Sure. I mean, there's a lot here to unpack also. And I got to preface this because it changed a little bit based on the fact that a good friend of mine met me in the Alps. And so that changed my approach. I didn't climb the Matterhorn from the Valley floor this time. I actually did choose to climb it from the horn of the hut and attack it with the guide.
00:38:44:01 - 00:38:54:05
Speaker 4
So I had all that left in the tank to start. So it definitely changed it, like from a perspective of like, you know, redoing it the same way I did it. I didn't do that. I just why would climb the mountain?
00:38:54:05 - 00:39:27:12
Speaker 2
I think that, you know what you said before in terms of like, you know, the first time you were there was the first time ever being there. I think that that in itself is something that can be overlooked, like not knowing what a place feels like, what a place looks like, where things are, you know, the small idiosyncrasies of kind of what to do, how to act, where to walk, you know, what to look out like, all these little details that you can only get by actually being someone who really make a huge difference and planning something like that, you know, like you did for the first time to get up there without any you
00:39:27:12 - 00:39:45:09
Speaker 2
know, other than, you know, screw, you know, screwing around on Google Earth and trying to orient yourself as much as possible, like it just is not the same. So I think that's just like such a testament to that fact. In general. It's like trying to plan something for a place that you've absolutely never been is is quite a quite a thing to try to try to take on.
00:39:45:11 - 00:40:03:01
Speaker 4
Yeah, I think that's true. And I, I like that point a lot because it makes a huge difference to have the lay of the land. It makes a huge difference to know where the lives are, what they're running, just all the logistics of everything trained. Where are you going to sleep, what you need there, what are the accommodations like?
00:40:03:01 - 00:40:24:01
Speaker 4
What kind of food do they have in the grocery store? Does it sit well with you? What can you you know, all of those things. So definitely coming back. I knew exactly what was going on and I knew I was going to apply it to my climbing is really cool. That's what I like about going back to an area like that because you definitely you come back stronger mentally and you know what's going on.
00:40:24:03 - 00:40:33:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, yeah, you're you're in the Alps now. You're you've met up with your climbing partner. Kind of talk to us a little bit briefly about kind of what you guys did to prepare.
00:40:33:13 - 00:41:08:21
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah. My climbing partner, Bobby Cruz, shout out to him up until this point. Yeah. Bobby Cruz. Dave, he sent it, man to Bobby. Oh, man. So much respect for that guy of where to start. Basically, Bobby and I met here in Miami. We had only climbed in the gym together. Bobby has had prior like outdoor climbing experience, some like mountaineering soirees on Rainier and Mt. Hood, but nothing of this level and like nothing of this magnitude.
00:41:08:23 - 00:41:29:01
Speaker 4
And he just showed up ready to roll, you know, and I just went into it with this approach like I never I mean, I've gone climbing with people and taught them, you know, how to tie in and, you know, all the basics and things like that and make sure they're safe. But this was like full on, like Mountaineering guide class for two weeks, basically preparing to climb the Matterhorn.
00:41:29:03 - 00:42:00:05
Speaker 4
And, you know, we started off just at the Crag. We practiced some Multipage sport routes because she's never done a multipage before in his life. And, you know, we practiced just using regular ropes, twin ropes. I was placing tried ghillie gear. He was cleaning it, you know, took him through everything, rappelling, tying knots, teaching him mountaineers, teaching cove hitches, everything, basically that was going to be applicable on the mountain and not all at once, but, you know, at a good pace.
00:42:00:07 - 00:42:06:08
Speaker 4
And to the point where I was deemed the named safety Josh.
00:42:06:09 - 00:42:10:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's a good that's a good name. You want to be safety? Josh For sure, Yes.
00:42:10:05 - 00:42:10:13
Speaker 5
You know.
00:42:10:13 - 00:42:16:04
Speaker 4
Safety. Josh There is some there is some points in the trip for safety. Josh became a sarcastic nickname as well, you know.
00:42:16:06 - 00:42:17:07
Speaker 5
Where things got a.
00:42:17:07 - 00:42:18:05
Speaker 4
Little dicey.
00:42:18:07 - 00:42:20:09
Speaker 2
As low as an unsafe D John's.
00:42:20:09 - 00:42:20:22
Speaker 4
Unsafe.
00:42:20:23 - 00:42:31:20
Speaker 5
There's also there good safety. Josh There's like a 60 foot helicopter back. Oh, there goes safety. Josh Yeah.
00:42:31:20 - 00:42:32:07
Speaker 4
Basically.
00:42:32:07 - 00:42:33:08
Speaker 5
That's funny.
00:42:33:09 - 00:42:53:06
Speaker 4
So yeah, we were, we did everything, man. And honestly, the one thing that I was learning there too was I had never done like legit glacier travel, right? Yeah. So that was something I had to teach myself through videos on YouTube and, you know, through books that I had, but I'd never really practiced it. So we practiced that together and we got that down and it felt.
00:42:53:08 - 00:43:12:15
Speaker 4
AC It felt really safe, like in the beginning was like, what's going on? And, you know, is this going to work? But once you figure out the mechanics and you understand it and you make it second nature, like you repeat that stuff because you don't want to be second guessing that when you're on the ice. Like that's so important, especially when you want to trust your partner.
00:43:12:16 - 00:43:36:14
Speaker 4
So we basically went through the whole gamut and then I took him on his first Multipage trad adventure, and this was a beautiful climb in the ridges. So across from the Mont Blanc, and I'm going to slaughter the pronunciation, but this is the Aguayo de la Gloria Terrible. I'm sure the French.
00:43:36:17 - 00:43:38:02
Speaker 2
Sounded pretty good to me.
00:43:38:04 - 00:43:40:01
Speaker 4
All right. And so this is.
00:43:40:07 - 00:43:44:07
Speaker 5
South by Southeast Ridge.
00:43:44:09 - 00:44:15:01
Speaker 4
And just an epic climb with, like, just beautiful exposure, a mix of bass and crack. There were some bolts, but also some trad. Definitely had anchors bolted there on half of the climb and then the other half, and I think at the total was 20 or 20 feet. Now 5000 feet excuse me, 1500 feet. And one thing that I read said that the climbs should take like 4 to 5 hours for a 1500 foot climb.
00:44:15:03 - 00:44:15:19
Speaker 4
I know they said.
00:44:15:19 - 00:44:17:04
Speaker 2
They were for you. Alan Burgess.
00:44:17:08 - 00:44:23:01
Speaker 4
I know. I think that they were like simul climbing, right? Because some of it was pretty easy.
00:44:23:03 - 00:44:24:11
Speaker 5
Yeah. So we got.
00:44:24:11 - 00:44:50:20
Speaker 4
We definitely got a little bit of a late start on that climb. And, uh, you know, it's his first multi pitch, but we're like, we're in it and it's comfortable climbing. I'm feeling good, except for the first pitch. Yeah. Let me go back. The first pitch. I was feeling confident and I wanted to get some experience in my mountain mountaineering boots climbing, and this was A five by B plus.
00:44:50:22 - 00:44:54:09
Speaker 4
What is it? Yeah, by B plus or.
00:44:54:10 - 00:44:55:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, right through the.
00:44:55:20 - 00:44:57:05
Speaker 4
Grades out there by B plus.
00:44:57:05 - 00:45:00:17
Speaker 2
And that sounds about right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 68i think is like starting to get towards.
00:45:00:17 - 00:45:01:21
Speaker 1
510 or something.
00:45:01:21 - 00:45:03:07
Speaker 2
Is that correct. I think it's like.
00:45:03:07 - 00:45:04:07
Speaker 4
Five nine ish.
00:45:04:09 - 00:45:06:15
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:06:17 - 00:45:37:09
Speaker 4
And so I go into this on my mountaineering boots and I also decide to skip one anchor with my 50 meter rope and just kind of end up in this area where I'm just like, centered. I, you know, run out and running out of gear and I'm in my mountaineering boots. So wishing I had rock shoes on and I had to build a shoddy anchor, which I then decided was too shoddy and I broke it down and then traverse left to a crack that I found built an anchor and got him back up.
00:45:37:09 - 00:45:43:08
Speaker 4
To me. It was definitely like one of those like, close calls or you're like, Come on, Josh, that was where I got to safety. Josh Sarcastic remark.
00:45:43:10 - 00:45:46:21
Speaker 1
Safety. Josh At his finest.
00:45:46:23 - 00:46:12:01
Speaker 2
I mean, we've all been there, though, you know, I can, I can count the I can't even count the number of times where I'm in a situation where you're just like, fuck, Like I need to build an anchor now run out. I don't enough gear I need. Not only do I need to build an anchor, but I need to build an anchor with like the five pieces that I have left on my harness, you know, and yeah, to add mountaineering boots on that, you know, is just a whole nother level there.
00:46:12:01 - 00:46:15:06
Speaker 5
So yeah, that's pretty great.
00:46:15:08 - 00:46:28:01
Speaker 1
So can you correct me here if I'm wrong? Josh But they don't allow, do they not allow or is just the climbing ethos you don't use active or passive pro on the Matterhorn.
00:46:28:03 - 00:46:37:07
Speaker 4
No, they, they do You can I know the guides don't use it but they bring it for like okay sumo situation if they do need it.
00:46:37:09 - 00:46:47:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. Okay. But like you wouldn't see anybody pop in a cam on a situation where it's maybe a little run out and just put like an extended drawer and just keep climbing through. Like, are people doing that or not? Think they.
00:46:47:01 - 00:47:06:19
Speaker 4
Could? I think they might be. I don't know. I want it, you know. You know, you see people that they're bringing these things and they're slinging rocks. Like it might depend on the style of the climber and where they're from. I wouldn't count it out, but it's definitely not building an anchor and pitching it out. If you did that, you would get some serious.
00:47:06:19 - 00:47:07:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah, for sure.
00:47:07:19 - 00:47:15:02
Speaker 4
Even even just using the stanchion. Yeah. As an anchor, you know, might be frowned upon for too long just because there's so much traffic.
00:47:15:02 - 00:47:28:08
Speaker 1
Gotcha. Yeah. So, So for people who don't know, maybe if you can tell us a little bit about I think you called it a stanchion. What are what are the types of protection that are, you know, predominantly being used on this course.
00:47:28:08 - 00:47:49:15
Speaker 4
So the guides set up stanchions in the steeper sections, especially as you get higher on the mountain. And these are just to protect their clients as they climb up. So the guide is essentially just free soloing from stanchion to stanchion, and then pitching their client up to this tension and then blowing in the line as they climb up.
00:47:49:17 - 00:48:08:08
Speaker 4
Right. And then on this, on the way down, they'll do the same thing. They'll hitch it and they'll lower them. And then the guest will or the client will slip into the next stanchion and they will down climb to them, basically, which is essentially the style that I climb the mountain on with my friend. So I did the same thing as a guide.
00:48:08:10 - 00:48:09:06
Speaker 4
So I climb.
00:48:09:07 - 00:48:10:06
Speaker 5
So it's essentially.
00:48:10:06 - 00:48:26:15
Speaker 1
Just running protection pretty much is what you're doing. Basically, you know, you're not pitching it out, you're just using running protection and terrain to, you know, prevent maybe larger slides or to pull your partner up and the first person's going over lower class terrain, you know, pretty run out, it sounds like.
00:48:26:16 - 00:48:54:16
Speaker 4
Right? Exactly. Yeah. Super run out for the leader. Yeah. No. Yeah. You want to bring Chad geared to make any type of protection typically. So you're just using the stanchions and occasionally there'll be bolts on some of the like the slab areas. They have a bolt where you can clip a draw. So I mean, most of the racks that I saw were like a few quick draws and maybe like two pieces of pro for like an emergency situation.
00:48:54:16 - 00:49:06:10
Speaker 4
But that was about it. Mostly just quick draws like an carabiners and maybe like or two 3 to 4 long runners and that was about it so super light.
00:49:06:12 - 00:49:08:00
Speaker 2
So yeah the the so the.
00:49:08:05 - 00:49:09:15
Speaker 1
Super interesting man so the.
00:49:09:15 - 00:49:30:06
Speaker 2
The protection is not really a factor on the Matterhorn the route that you were on, you know, a few days prior to your guys's second attempt in your second ascent on the Matterhorn. Bring us back to two that that particular crime climb real quick. You know, you guys you guys summited. I mean, there was a ridgeline, I remember.
00:49:30:08 - 00:49:35:11
Speaker 2
And then I believe you guys got benighted out there. Right. Tell us that. Tell us a little bit about that.
00:49:35:13 - 00:50:05:04
Speaker 4
Yeah. So I want to jump into this was his first big adventure like this first big trad climb, first committing route. And, you know, it was it had a mix of everything from there was crack climbing, which was very new to him. Also. So similar to my experience with you, Kyle, and, you know, super exposed edge, the razor's edge is just how the wind was coming in and the effect of the exposure with that wind and being on that super sharp edge was insane.
00:50:05:06 - 00:50:27:11
Speaker 4
Like I came out of this steep slab crap climb to climb and then it turned into really exposed like edge base. And then you come up on to this razor erect. And I was like, I remember getting up there and having to do a double take. It was one of the craziest things I ever looked at and was I was amazing and I was so stoked.
00:50:27:11 - 00:50:39:18
Speaker 4
And so I got to the other side and I was bullying him. And this the look on his face when he was coming up on that thing was so priceless and he was having the time of his life. But he was like, Dude, that was the craziest you'd have ever done in my life. And I felt the same way.
00:50:39:18 - 00:50:57:21
Speaker 4
It was amazing. Like it was such a cool experience. And at that point the sun was going down, like the sun was setting. And I knew that we were in for just like the last few pitches and total darkness. And I wasn't sure where I was going to go from there. And luckily it wasn't too cold and I wasn't worried.
00:50:57:21 - 00:51:14:10
Speaker 4
We're having a good time, but we we put on the headlamps and we cranked it out. I climbed those last three pitches in the dark, and then we got on to the descent, which was somewhat straightforward until the end. And, you know, I was totally on it. Like I knew I was on the roof, like I was following the guidebook.
00:51:14:12 - 00:51:32:16
Speaker 4
And then it just got to like this one gully. And then it just it was dark. So it was so hard to anything. And it was just like super loose rock. And I felt like we were off the route. And the only way, if we were to continue going forward was like up this steep cliff. And I was like, There's no way we have to go up this to get back down.
00:51:32:18 - 00:51:45:14
Speaker 4
And so I just finally just had to give in and we just decided to stay there the night. So I built like a rock shelter that was more just for emotional support and to keep us warm while we built it for the next hour.
00:51:45:16 - 00:51:46:09
Speaker 5
And give you something.
00:51:46:09 - 00:51:47:19
Speaker 2
To do to burn the time.
00:51:47:21 - 00:51:48:12
Speaker 5
Exactly.
00:51:48:12 - 00:51:53:00
Speaker 2
Emotional support. Like we're going to build an igloo if it takes us until the next morning.
00:51:53:02 - 00:51:55:02
Speaker 5
Exactly. Yeah. I mean, seriously, you.
00:51:55:02 - 00:52:20:12
Speaker 4
Just kept us warm. And then we laid in there and shivered until the morning. Luckily, I had this one like electric and warmer that I put to our backs. We were like, just cold enough. We were like cuddling with our backs. But that was about it. And then we shared it out into the morning. And when the when the sun finally came up, I realized like I was so close, I was literally standing on the root and the root was going back up that mountain.
00:52:20:14 - 00:52:37:23
Speaker 4
There were just like a little like goat path that you couldn't see at night. And even when the light hit it, it was very hard. And I was like, Is that really the only where you get on it? And you realize like, okay, this is the path, and we got back on it. We're out of water. And we still had like, I don't know, another 2 hours to hike down the mountain.
00:52:38:01 - 00:53:06:04
Speaker 4
Would no list were running at this point. Yeah I know, I know. And that's part of why I heard you say this, Max, too. It's important to train dehydrated sometimes just to know how your body operates and just to be comfortable in that. Because even though my last sip of water was probably like 11 p.m. the night before and it's now 6:00 the next day or whatever, four or five, whenever the sun came up, I was dehydrated, but I felt good, like I could keep hiking.
00:53:06:04 - 00:53:21:11
Speaker 4
I didn't feel weak. I knew that I needed water, but like I knew that I could handle it based on what I had done. So before we went out there, I was running dehydrated in like 90 degree weather in hot, humid Miami. So it definitely helps.
00:53:21:13 - 00:53:45:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, obviously you don't want to train dehydrated all the time, but I've heard people try and in certain podcasts and stuff contradict that and I don't get it personally. You don't want to be experiencing why you operate like under dehydration for the first time in some dangerous, bad ways. You know, you kind of want to know how my body operates, have this this intuition or understanding.
00:53:45:07 - 00:53:56:13
Speaker 1
Oh, I've feeling like this before. I know I've got four more good hours before I'm really going to start slowing down and, you know, being not the best version of myself. And so having that intuition, I think is super important.
00:53:56:14 - 00:54:03:06
Speaker 4
So and I would preface this by saying like, I start hydrated, right? I don't just like go into an exercise dehydrate course.
00:54:03:11 - 00:54:04:09
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:54:04:11 - 00:54:06:12
Speaker 4
I'll exercise until I feel dehydrated.
00:54:06:12 - 00:54:08:08
Speaker 1
Comes out of the sauna like it's like.
00:54:08:10 - 00:54:10:19
Speaker 5
Six blocks in, like a sweat bag.
00:54:10:21 - 00:54:12:12
Speaker 1
It's like running in the stairwells.
00:54:12:12 - 00:54:16:03
Speaker 5
Like going up and down, up and down. This dude's just passed out, covered.
00:54:16:03 - 00:54:17:00
Speaker 1
In mountaineering boots.
00:54:17:00 - 00:54:22:00
Speaker 5
And like, the way I see the stairwell. Yeah, I.
00:54:22:00 - 00:54:38:08
Speaker 2
Mean, the same goes for sleep deprivation and hunger, too. You know, like, these three things are just like, you know, we live such a cushy life here. Know in the world, at least most of us do. Maybe that's entitled of me to say. But we have food, we have sleep, we have water.
00:54:38:11 - 00:54:40:04
Speaker 5
Your kids, for me and.
00:54:40:04 - 00:54:54:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, like, I don't think a lot of people understand what it feels like to be, you know, super hungry, like maybe not eating for 20 hours, you know, not drinking for ten, 12 hours, you know, not sleeping an entire night and having to perform the next day. Like these are real things that happened to us in the mountains.
00:54:54:21 - 00:55:03:21
Speaker 2
And if, like you said, Max, if we're doing it any of these things for the first time, when life is on the line, it's just it's not as as safe as it should be.
00:55:03:23 - 00:55:06:10
Speaker 5
Mm hmm.
00:55:06:12 - 00:55:07:13
Speaker 2
But yeah, so.
00:55:07:15 - 00:55:20:21
Speaker 1
So let's get back on track here. So you've been benighted. You had your beautiful, nice sleep in your support. Rock, shelter, and now you've found this goat path. So. Yeah, I was getting off the mound.
00:55:21:00 - 00:55:40:22
Speaker 4
Yeah, getting off the mountain was pretty much straightforward. After the goat path we came down the descent wasn't super straightforward. There was, like, a cliff out repel that we couldn't get down because our rope wasn't long enough. And then I had to find another path, and we got down. Continued hiking. You're just kind of a miserable grind down to the first.
00:55:40:22 - 00:55:59:01
Speaker 4
The second lift is not. Nothing was operating at this time. No water there. My buddy is like he's hurting at this point. Like he's just sitting there like, exhausted and tired, super dehydrated. And so I just tell him to chill out and I'm like, I'm going to go find water and I'll come back because I see like there's tents down around this little lake.
00:55:59:03 - 00:56:16:04
Speaker 4
And so I just go exploring and actually find a mountain refuge there, like cooking breakfast. It's almost like a horny hut, but for like through hikers and stuff. And so I just walk right in there. I had our water bottles and they had jugs. I filled them up and I walked back, gave him some water, and we got our asses down.
00:56:16:06 - 00:56:22:05
Speaker 2
And then how much time passed between that night and your attempt on the Matterhorn?
00:56:22:07 - 00:56:23:11
Speaker 4
So we actually that was.
00:56:23:11 - 00:56:24:14
Speaker 2
Like a couple of days early.
00:56:24:14 - 00:56:54:10
Speaker 4
On. So we recovered from that. And then the next stage was we wanted to do another objective a little higher because the elevation of that climb kind of topped out close to 9000 feet. And I wanted to get up to about 12,000 feet and spend the night there before we went on. So the next stage of this was to get up to the Aguirre, the Mighty, which takes you from the base of salmon up to about 12,400 feet, something like that.
00:56:54:10 - 00:57:27:22
Speaker 4
So like super huge amount of elevation gain in a lift, like instantaneously. So the plan was to go up there and then climb an 800 foot multiple pitch on the pyramid to tackle, which is at the Mont Blanc to tackle. So you had typically attacked this from the cosmic height, which is just below the grill, the mighty you take the lift up to the world medi, and then you traverse the glacier down to the cosmic height, spend the night there, and then early on you would attack the pyramid.
00:57:27:23 - 00:57:55:23
Speaker 4
Attack? Well, and that's like it was the East Ridge or Easter at about five, eight, 800 pitches, know 800 pitches a hundred feet. And so that didn't go to plan. Once again, weather came in, apparently it was too windy and they shut down the world and medi lift and it didn't seem that when do you is like 2530 miles an hour and I was like is it that bad that they shut down the lift?
00:57:56:01 - 00:58:20:03
Speaker 4
And so I was still determined to get up there. And I found out the on the other side, if you take there's a tunnel that goes through the the Mont Blanc to the Italian side, there's another lift the Monte Bianco from Cor Meyer. And so that takes you up to the Italian side and that was open. And so my idea was, okay, the next day we'll just take the bus through, take that lift up and then we'll cross the glacier for three and a half hours.
00:58:20:05 - 00:58:37:18
Speaker 4
Stay at the cosmic hut, acclimate and then do the climb the next day. And so we did. We made that happen. We had a beautiful day. We crossed the glacier. We got to see the pyramid attack. All we got to practice all of our rope work on the glacier. We actually did do the glacier work, which is awesome.
00:58:37:20 - 00:58:58:07
Speaker 4
And we even saw a rescue happen on the climb that we wanted to do. It looked like, yeah, a helicopter came in like right in front of us as we were like at the base of it. And it didn't like seem like a serious situation. It was serious for them, but it didn't seem like anybody was hurt. It was just that they rappelled down the wrong route and were stuck on the face of the rock.
00:58:58:08 - 00:59:01:17
Speaker 4
They just had no more interest know.
00:59:01:19 - 00:59:05:05
Speaker 5
Just kind of stuck in anything. Mm hmm. Yeah.
00:59:05:07 - 00:59:24:04
Speaker 4
So we saw that. And then you also see things that kind of sober you up from a safety perspective. Like I always tell people when they ask me, Am I scared to fall off a mountain when I'm climbing? And that's typically the least of my concerns. The biggest thing I'm concerned is like objective dangers. Rock, ice, snow hitting me from above, stuff that I can't control.
00:59:24:06 - 00:59:47:02
Speaker 4
And so as we were passing under the base of the pyramid to tackle, I just see it could have been a day ago. It could have been a week ago, who knows? But just a massive avalanche that surrounded the whole base of that climb. And it was like huge ice, boulders and ice chunks. And you kind of you look up at these tracks that are like way above the mountain or on the top of the mountain.
00:59:47:04 - 00:59:59:06
Speaker 4
And those things can go at any time. And so you just you realize just how aware of your surroundings you have to be and make sure you're in the right spot at the right time and that anything really can happen at any time, basically.
00:59:59:08 - 01:00:00:17
Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:00:00:19 - 01:00:24:04
Speaker 4
So to to continue, we we did get to the cosmic cut. We stayed there, we had dinner, we made friends and over dinner they told us what the weather was going to be the next day. And then that's when it really set in that we were not going to be climbing because they said that like 75 mile an hour winds were rolling in and like it just it was ugly.
01:00:24:06 - 01:00:40:14
Speaker 4
So we stayed the night there and like, the whole hog was basically shaking. We didn't really get like a good night's sleep. It was like the wind was beating that thing down In the morning when we got up, we got to 4:00. That's when our breakfast was scheduled to start the climb, which is like whipping. There is no way we were going to cross the glacier.
01:00:40:16 - 01:00:54:10
Speaker 4
Who knows what the climb would have been like. I think our our ropes would've been flying everywhere. Just would have been heinous. So we had to abandon that climb, you know? And that's just like one more thing that gets in your head. Got like, I want to prepare. Here we go again. Like, here we go again. Yeah, exactly right.
01:00:54:10 - 01:01:08:16
Speaker 4
So those kind of things, like they they kind of set into your head and kind of mess with you a little bit like this is going to go to plan. I'm going to get the weather window that I need. Am I acclimated enough? All these things. So that was like two days before we went for.
01:01:08:18 - 01:01:25:09
Speaker 2
Two days before. And so, yeah, bring us bring us to the objective, bring us to the, you know, the final ascent and the attack of the Matterhorn. You know, you guys, I remember you said you guys took the lift this time. You guys are with the guides. You know what is what is Bring us. Bring us to the base there.
01:01:25:09 - 01:01:38:18
Speaker 2
What is this look like? Everyone, please, like, subscribe and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the best ways to support the show tours.
01:01:38:20 - 01:02:05:15
Speaker 4
So we have what looks like a great weather window and it was once again just one day sandwiched between shitty windy weather and cloud rain like it was one day and the Bluebird. So like we're going there, we take the train from Shamli and we go straight to Zermatt. It's about a three hour train ride. And then from the train we hop on the lift to the sports and then hiked the only hut there.
01:02:05:18 - 01:02:18:14
Speaker 4
We're just hanging out, waiting, checking out that mountain. It's looking ominous, which is expected, You know, as the clouds roll in, it always tends to look a little bit dark and gloomy and kind of gets in your head a little bit.
01:02:18:16 - 01:02:20:10
Speaker 1
What did you have for dinner?
01:02:20:11 - 01:02:40:08
Speaker 4
For dinner, they made one and a half. It was like pasta with meat sauce. They give you like it's actually it's pretty nice. So you pay like 150 francs to stay there, but you get a bed, they give you a three course meal. It was like soup was actually to die for I think it was like a butternut squash soup, meat pasta.
01:02:40:10 - 01:02:52:21
Speaker 1
Excuse my Canadian this, but I have no idea what a franc is worth and it feels like I would pay an old English king with this. Some, like gold coins here, you know.
01:02:52:23 - 01:02:54:16
Speaker 4
Swiss francs?
01:02:54:18 - 01:02:58:07
Speaker 5
Sure. Yeah, sure. It's. It's worth it, but it's.
01:02:58:09 - 01:03:00:09
Speaker 1
That's the honest to God truth.
01:03:00:11 - 01:03:00:14
Speaker 5
I.
01:03:00:14 - 01:03:06:18
Speaker 4
Think of Franc is the highest currency in the world. Right? Or is it about it.
01:03:06:18 - 01:03:07:08
Speaker 2
Was about the.
01:03:07:08 - 01:03:10:06
Speaker 5
Euro. It's about a can do soon. But the British.
01:03:10:06 - 01:03:11:05
Speaker 2
Pound was the the.
01:03:11:05 - 01:03:13:04
Speaker 5
Most about making fun of France. It's like.
01:03:13:10 - 01:03:15:02
Speaker 4
It might be just below.
01:03:15:04 - 01:03:15:11
Speaker 5
Maybe.
01:03:15:11 - 01:03:18:05
Speaker 4
Just below that, but it's definitely compared to the dollar. It's more.
01:03:18:11 - 01:03:24:03
Speaker 2
For sure. Well, yeah, I mean, the infamous Swiss banks, you know, they're going to have a currency that holds value.
01:03:24:05 - 01:03:42:22
Speaker 4
Yeah. So they give you they give you like a full meal. And this time was cool. We made some friends with other climbers and their guides, and it was kind of cool to talk shop with the guides. I found that I was able to connect with them better this time and they were asking me questions about, you know, how we were going to climb it and the length of rope we were using.
01:03:42:22 - 01:03:55:12
Speaker 4
And it was kind of cool. I got like a pat on the back from this guide with like how prepared I was for it. And that was really cool to hear. That was actually different than my perspective with people that I dealt with the last time, especially when they found out that it was snowing.
01:03:55:14 - 01:04:02:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, that was like so like, do you think the different vibe was because you were clearly with someone versus by yourself?
01:04:02:15 - 01:04:11:17
Speaker 4
I think that helped a little bit for sure. I think that helped a little bit. I think it also helped that we made friends with their guest, their clients before.
01:04:11:19 - 01:04:12:05
Speaker 5
Okay.
01:04:12:07 - 01:04:12:18
Speaker 4
Talking to.
01:04:12:18 - 01:04:14:07
Speaker 2
Them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
01:04:14:07 - 01:04:27:07
Speaker 4
So, you know, if you just go up and talk to a guide, I think they're just kind of focused on the task at hand. But if you're hitting it off with their their client, then they're more likely to engage with you. You know? Yeah.
01:04:27:09 - 01:04:39:22
Speaker 2
So yeah, like, you know, are you, how are you guys crammed up together on this? Is it like a race? Are you all starting at the same time? You know, do guides go first? Do they batch it out Like is there organization to it? You know, how did this whole thing start?
01:04:40:04 - 01:05:04:22
Speaker 4
Yeah. So it's it's structured there's different launch times depending on whether you're with the guide and also whether or not you're with a guide from Zermatt. These are my guides Go first and then anybody else with the guide goes next. And anybody else without a guide goes after that. So there's three groups and it doesn't really matter because you all end up bunched up at the at the bottom of the climb anyway.
01:05:05:00 - 01:05:24:12
Speaker 4
But, you know, the people who are getting on that climb first get a significant advantage and Head Start to get ahead and get on top of that mountain first. Because when you're in our group without a guide, you're behind so many people and then you're also behind them on the route. It's it's a little tricky and challenging and you don't know if you pass people because it could be unsafe.
01:05:24:14 - 01:05:48:15
Speaker 4
You know, you don't want to be cutting people off. I learned the longer we were on the mountain that it was okay and the more that I saw like some people trying to pass us, I was like, okay, like this is like a free for all. Just go for it and don't kick in your rocks and anybody. But yeah, you know, at the base of the climb, I think there was probably 35 or 36 people in front of us that were just standing there in a line waiting to get on the mountain.
01:05:48:17 - 01:06:11:22
Speaker 4
And so we're just kind of like shivering, waiting, like, okay, come on, you want to get after this thing. But once once you get on the mountain, it kind of spreads out, the line disappears and you kind of fall into your rhythm and your pace and you just move with it and you're still we were around guides, so I really didn't have to worry about the route finding on the way up.
01:06:12:00 - 01:06:29:00
Speaker 4
My biggest concern was moving fast, like we were stuck behind a guide with a really slow client. You know, it was actually someone that we had met before and like it was actually felt because we, like, connected with her and like, like she's doing she's just going so slow and we're like, like we got to move, you know?
01:06:29:00 - 01:06:45:01
Speaker 4
Yeah. And we just had kind of to leave them in the dust. And then, you know, we're staying with guides and for the most part you're just kind of following them and moving and making sure that you're moving fast and the cool thing about this ascent is that, you know, I had a lot of energy. We're moving fast.
01:06:45:01 - 01:06:56:20
Speaker 4
Bobby was keeping up. Everyone was acclimated, doing well, and we got to the shoulder 3 hours before I got there. Lesson So we got to the shoulder like 930 at night. So tons of tons of time.
01:06:56:21 - 01:07:07:04
Speaker 1
So awesome. It must have been like, did you feel really relieved? Like, like, you know, being there and experiencing that? Like, was it in your mind? Like, we have this in the bag for sure.
01:07:07:06 - 01:07:27:05
Speaker 4
For sure, Yeah. Yeah. And I was I was like, I was feeling good. I was like, Oh, yeah, we got 3 hours head start. Like, this is so much better. And I'm looking up at the climb. I can tell there's a lot of people up there and in my head I'm like, okay, we got like an hour left to the summit and I think under like good conditions it would have been fine.
01:07:27:08 - 01:07:49:08
Speaker 4
But with the amount of people that were on it and the timing, I think the timing is very important. Like it doesn't matter that there's so many people going up, but when you're going up in a line of people, then the people who summited are now coming down and that line is crisscrossing huge like traffic jams. And just like the queues were just miserable.
01:07:49:10 - 01:07:54:18
Speaker 4
So what? I thought it was going to take us an hour, I think actually took us like to just to get up there.
01:07:54:20 - 01:07:56:03
Speaker 2
From the corner to the summit.
01:07:56:07 - 01:08:17:10
Speaker 4
Yeah. From the shoulder summit. Yeah. And it was just like harness like stuck at some of those stanchions, crampons all over the place. You're watching your fingers. People going up, People going down. Yes. It was just like it was a mess. And like, I going into this is a very busy mountain. You know, I expected that, but it was still not fun, that section.
01:08:17:12 - 01:08:34:11
Speaker 4
And that's like the more technical spot, like from the shoulder on, that's where you got the crampons on. And it's icy, it's snowy. Like if you slip, you're screwed. Like you're you got to be on. So it definitely added to the anxiety a little bit. I definitely handled it, but like, you're definitely on edge.
01:08:34:13 - 01:08:48:02
Speaker 2
So how was, uh, forgive me, how what's your Bobby? Is it Bobby? Bobby? Bobby Cruz. Bobby. Bobby Cruz. Was Bobby doing mentally and physically at this point? You know, as a as a climbing partner.
01:08:48:04 - 01:09:02:06
Speaker 4
Overall, Bobby was doing good. Bobby was doing really good. I think he was moving and he was keeping up. We were communicating well. I super stoked on just how he was doing. I mean, I knew that he could handle it based on everything that we had gone through before.
01:09:02:08 - 01:09:03:16
Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:09:03:18 - 01:09:21:16
Speaker 4
He had mentioned that he had some nerves, I think the night before, the morning before, which is normal. You know, you're looking up at that mountain. He never done anything like that before. But yeah, he was doing well. And, you know, I just, I, I always wanted to do my best to make sure that he felt safe, that he always felt connected to the mountain bike.
01:09:21:16 - 01:09:37:13
Speaker 4
If something were to happen, like he wasn't going to fall off. I thought that's the most important thing. You have to trust the gear and you have to trust your with. So if he had that, he was good. And yeah, we just kept we kept moving and we knew there was never like any doubt that we were going to get to the top.
01:09:37:13 - 01:09:58:07
Speaker 4
It was just like, How long is it can take us to get there? And yeah, we made it. We got to the top and it's just it's one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen on top of narrow snow. Ridge You just, you have enough room on that thing for your feet, takes your breath away. You know, you walk across the border from Switzerland to Italy.
01:09:58:09 - 01:09:58:23
Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:09:59:01 - 01:10:27:20
Speaker 4
You see some of the people at the top, like our bunk mates we saw up there and we just shared like, an awesome moment of, like celebrating that summit and also realizing that we had to come the fuck back down that thing. And, you know, it's just it's, it was awesome, man. Such a such a good memory. Bobby was just blown away and yeah, I couldn't be more grateful to have that experience and honestly, to share it with someone you know, It would have been cool to do it solo and to say that I did it solo, but honestly, I enjoyed it so much more.
01:10:27:20 - 01:10:28:13
Speaker 4
Having Bobby with.
01:10:28:13 - 01:10:36:04
Speaker 5
Me, how did I.
01:10:36:06 - 01:10:54:08
Speaker 1
Obviously like amazing commitment? Really awesome man. Congrats and how long like were you really worried at the summit? Just or did you really take it in and enjoy it? Or were you just we need to get down What? Was kind of your the way you were behaving on the top?
01:10:54:10 - 01:11:15:16
Speaker 4
I think it was a mix of both. I was with enough to take time to turn my GoPro on and get that footage and, you know, I wanted to walk across the ridge and get like the full summit before we came back down and the weather was bluebird. Like, I wasn't worried about a thunderstorm rolling in. It was like it was cool, it wasn't windy, nothing.
01:11:15:16 - 01:11:34:06
Speaker 4
It was just a gorgeous day. But I knew the descent was heinous. I did it before and it was heinous the last time as long. And it's just like it's ruling out finding your tired and everything. So I knew it was coming and I knew he wanted to get down to at this point, the altitude was hitting him and he was feeling pretty tired and ready to come down.
01:11:34:06 - 01:11:48:23
Speaker 4
I could tell at that at that time. So there was like a little trepidation, get back down. I mean, I even I was a little disappointed. I brought my DSLR camera in my backpack up the whole mountain and forgot to pull it out of the top. So, I mean.
01:11:49:05 - 01:11:53:01
Speaker 5
I know, man. So, you know.
01:11:53:03 - 01:12:10:10
Speaker 4
There was a little bit of that, like, okay, we got to get down. So it's both right. You take it in, you look at all the mountains and you love that view because it doesn't get any better than that. And you just understand that you're you're halfway there. You got to get back down that mountain and you know, turn it back on.
01:12:10:12 - 01:12:13:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so can you tell us a little bit about.
01:12:13:08 - 01:12:14:01
Speaker 5
What was.
01:12:14:01 - 01:12:38:04
Speaker 1
This descent like? No, I'm thinking of steep, exposed, scrambling terrain. And that's pretty heinous, honestly, and descending. It can be a lot. So, you know, are you repelling sections of the route? Maybe just take us a little bit about what that experience was like for you and what were some of the nuances of it?
01:12:38:06 - 01:13:01:07
Speaker 4
Yeah. So both times I brought the same rope. It's a 40 millimeter thin rope, single rated. However, the first time I did repel on the way down and, you know, that's what was recommended 40 meters for the rebels and it was useful and this time. I just felt more confident and wanted to move fast. So I just did exactly what the guides were doing.
01:13:01:07 - 01:13:15:11
Speaker 4
And so I would get to a stanchion and lower Bobby to the next engine, and then I would just unclip and I would down climate free solo until I got to him. I mean, he would I would be clipped in basically to his stanchion, but that would be one hell of a whipper all the way through him.
01:13:15:16 - 01:13:18:07
Speaker 2
If you're rope it didn't get cut. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:13:18:08 - 01:13:19:01
Speaker 4
So now.
01:13:19:01 - 01:13:23:12
Speaker 2
Are you like down climbing like actually down climbing Jerry down with your.
01:13:23:14 - 01:13:24:12
Speaker 5
Weight.
01:13:24:14 - 01:13:30:23
Speaker 2
With your face towards the rock or are you like kind of like turning belly out towards, towards the view?
01:13:31:04 - 01:13:57:07
Speaker 4
It's a mix, so a mix, Yeah. Some of the steep snow sections, you, you could, like sidestep them on the way down and like switchback a little bit coming down the rope sections you're facing the wall and honestly some of the rope sections were a bit scary. You're just down climbing the rope, your crampons are scraping along the rock as you go down, and you're literally just hanging over the side of the mountain like some of it.
01:13:57:07 - 01:14:01:11
Speaker 4
You want even hit something before you for a long time before you hit rock.
01:14:01:13 - 01:14:06:04
Speaker 2
Are the ropes knotted or like loops tied in order, or is it just a straight cord?
01:14:06:06 - 01:14:25:20
Speaker 4
It's a lot of straight cord, like thick, thick rope. So yeah, no loops, nothing. No, not to hang on to. You could like I got to a point where I was so comfortable on them and I had gloves on that I was able to just like, loosen my grip a little bit and just slide.
01:14:25:22 - 01:14:26:06
Speaker 2
Okay.
01:14:26:11 - 01:14:44:01
Speaker 4
So I got I actually got really comfortable and good at it. And we were moving fast and I realized that my level for risk taking was relatively high. So that was cool. But yeah, we kept moving down. I just, I did that whole system the way, way down the sections where most people would rappelled down like the mostly slabs.
01:14:44:01 - 01:15:04:09
Speaker 4
So those are like 54i down climb those as well and you know, they're tenuous. But if you take your time, you know, you're facing the wall and you just make sure you have good foot placements the whole way down. You're good, right? They'll make a mistake, but it's good. It's all there, you know, don't get nervous and just make it happen.
01:15:04:09 - 01:15:17:20
Speaker 4
So there's a lot of people who aren't comfortable with that, and I don't recommend it if you aren't, you know, But if you are good climber and you're good with down climbing and you want to save time just down climate.
01:15:17:22 - 01:15:39:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's it's pretty cool that you were able you know, you come to this mountain first as a soloist you're you know you do an experience you're not sure exactly what's going down. And then you come back basically as a guide. And I think that's just an interesting position to find yourself in. You know, I don't I don't think a lot of people could say the same thing about like their first ascent of a mountain.
01:15:39:01 - 01:15:54:05
Speaker 2
You're like, Yeah, I try to want solo. And then I came back as a guide, basically, you know, more or less. Yeah. So it's a very interesting story and I think it's pretty cool to see you like in that position, you know, taking, taking that leadership role as a climber. That's pretty cool to see for you.
01:15:54:07 - 01:15:56:10
Speaker 4
For sure. Thanks, man.
01:15:56:12 - 01:16:09:01
Speaker 2
But yeah, so, I mean, you you know, it sounds like you guys are pretty much close to the end here. Like, is there a final crux towards the bottom? Like, did anything happen, you know, to, you know, the final boss at the at the base before you get to safety?
01:16:09:03 - 01:16:41:15
Speaker 4
Yeah. So the descent itself, honestly, I felt so good for most of it. And my route finding I thought was on point I, you know, move through super quick. We got down, we got past the Solvay hot and there's also like a little lower, there's like a little old under this, like, mountain alcove. We got past that. And I think beyond that point is where I started to lose it and I honestly think I ended up on the same route that I ended up on in the first one.
01:16:41:15 - 01:17:01:09
Speaker 4
I got lost and on the way down the last time to and you're not lost at the ridge, but you can get off route and it's not quite as straightforward. So I don't know where exactly I went wrong, but I ended up, you know, the whole time I thought I was on the route because like I said before, the rock looks polished and you're following pretty decent rock.
01:17:01:09 - 01:17:14:05
Speaker 4
But at some point you end up in this point where it's just like shitty rock and you're like questioning everything and you're tired. And once again, like, just like you just want to get to the bottom of this thing and you're like, I don't want to be lost. I like looking where I'm going for the next 2 hours.
01:17:14:07 - 01:17:34:15
Speaker 4
So we just, you know, we kept going and like there was like a series of repels we had to take, which we didn't have to take before. And these were like lower and lower down. And so there's there is nothing that we would have had to repel going up. And so I knew that we were off route, but kind of en route, if that makes sense because there were rebels there.
01:17:34:17 - 01:17:56:14
Speaker 4
And eventually we did find the path again and we were super stoked. But it just it took us a little long and we got down to the horn early and we missed the lift because they closed the lift at 5:00. So on top of, you know, what was it, I think it took us 14 hours from the horn hut to the top and back down to the horn.
01:17:56:15 - 01:18:04:10
Speaker 4
We had we had to hike another 3 hours all the way down to the village of Zermatt to add icing on the cake.
01:18:04:12 - 01:18:06:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, that would be a hard pill to swallow. I mean, pretty bombed.
01:18:07:04 - 01:18:11:12
Speaker 4
Mm hmm. I was. I was really banking on us making that lift. I really thought we were going to.
01:18:11:16 - 01:18:15:20
Speaker 2
How did you. How long did it take? Like, how. What was the window? What did you miss it by?
01:18:15:21 - 01:18:17:14
Speaker 4
We missed it by, like, an hour.
01:18:17:16 - 01:18:21:06
Speaker 2
Okay. All right. It's not. At least it wasn't like 15 minutes. Yeah.
01:18:21:07 - 01:18:32:06
Speaker 5
No. See how watching the left just pull out slowly. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, now. Oh.
01:18:32:08 - 01:18:34:03
Speaker 2
Well, sick man. That's epic.
01:18:34:06 - 01:18:59:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, it was an epic day, man. And honestly, as much as it sucked to not get the lift and is, like, as much as that hike sucked, you know, I'd honestly been through much worse before, and that hike was one of the most gorgeous hikes I've ever done. And it was just like this most glorious view of the Matterhorn from a different angle that I had never seen, because we kind of we went down under the north face.
01:18:59:06 - 01:19:19:00
Speaker 4
There's a trail that way and then down through the valley and like there's just this like, herd of, like cow farms and it's just so serene. It almost looks like, I don't know, like some fairytale, like rolling green hills. Like, I was just trying to take it in and make the most out of it because it was actually like, just so spectacular last year.
01:19:19:02 - 01:19:21:06
Speaker 2
And it wasn't nighttime, so you were able to see it was a.
01:19:21:06 - 01:19:21:16
Speaker 4
Nice time.
01:19:21:16 - 01:19:22:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, we did. Sun So we.
01:19:22:17 - 01:19:26:05
Speaker 4
Did get the sunset and you had to put the headlamps on before heading.
01:19:26:05 - 01:19:29:19
Speaker 2
Time. Did you end up pulling your DSLR out at the base? I did.
01:19:29:20 - 01:19:33:21
Speaker 4
I did. I got some shots there. I remembered that, and I was like, okay, you know, this thing.
01:19:33:22 - 01:19:36:10
Speaker 2
Got to shoot the cows, man.
01:19:36:12 - 01:19:40:12
Speaker 5
They shot the cow. Thank God. Yeah, the DSR. Yeah, I.
01:19:40:12 - 01:19:43:01
Speaker 4
Got Bobby petting the cows.
01:19:43:03 - 01:19:46:02
Speaker 5
Nice.
01:19:46:04 - 01:20:08:20
Speaker 2
That's also a nice dude. I mean, Buck, it's just a huge, huge objective. Such a cool story to have gone and come back and to such success after that and to to not know what you're getting yourself into and to come back with a plan and to be training in the I think Florida is even negative elevation. I think you're at below sea Point at some point.
01:20:08:20 - 01:20:10:04
Speaker 4
So that's like.
01:20:10:04 - 01:20:11:14
Speaker 5
Ahmanson Yeah.
01:20:11:14 - 01:20:14:10
Speaker 2
Exactly. To go from there, you know, to the Matterhorn.
01:20:14:10 - 01:20:16:02
Speaker 5
And you're in the water.
01:20:16:04 - 01:20:36:04
Speaker 2
Under the water. MAN Yeah, for sure. Yeah, but, but yeah, it's just a great, it's awesome story and, you know, the ability to turn around and make that safe decision and then to dedicate yourself completely to the same objective again, to turn around and make it something different is really honorable and remarkable and just really cool to hear that story on the show.
01:20:36:04 - 01:20:38:00
Speaker 2
So thanks for sharing with us.
01:20:38:02 - 01:20:41:03
Speaker 4
Bomani. I thank you for letting me share it. It's been awesome.
01:20:41:05 - 01:20:57:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's been really awesome having you on the show and you just even looking at pictures of the Matterhorn and stuff, it's such an inspiring mountain and a really cool. So, you know, congrats on the accomplishment and, you know, persevering through that adversity of coming back for the second time and getting there. So that's really.
01:20:57:06 - 01:20:57:18
Speaker 4
Awesome.
01:20:57:20 - 01:21:04:16
Speaker 2
Got any any any final statements or anything for for the climbing majority around, you know, your experience and, what you learned?
01:21:04:18 - 01:21:23:00
Speaker 4
I would just you know, I mean, just stay passionate, stay adventurous, you know, stay hungry for, you know, improving yourself and becoming better. That's What we do as we climb mountains and, you know, climbing mountains brings us to so many different corners of the world and and meeting new friends and new experiences. And it's just such a special thing.
01:21:23:00 - 01:21:27:14
Speaker 4
So just keep that with you and you know, you'll live just a fulfilled, happy life.