As a budding trad climber, climbing hard and improving my grades is something I've struggled with the last several years. Time, energy, and life commitments can make it hard to focus on certain goals. As someone who is always looking to improve, sometimes I need help organizing and focusing on the correct things with my limited time.
You've probably found yourself in a similar situation? Maybe you want to just learn a little more or maybe you want to take your climbing to the next level. One thing is for sure is that a coach can help you ... .push you…. and mentor you ... not only to be a better climber but also to be the best version of yourself. In today's episode we’re sitting down with Charlie Schreiber, a professional boulderer, climber and coach.
Charlie has been coaching adults and climbing at a high level since the age of 16. On a fast track to sitting alongside the most elite climbers in the world, his career came to a sudden shift when he seriously injured his elbow. Now…while still projecting V14, his major focus is creating the next generation of climbers. Charlie now spends most of his time coaching young climbers that are headed to world cups and the olympics.
In this episode we get to hear about Charlie's experiences as a young competition climber, the difficulties of making it as a pro, and the nuances of route setting and training physiology. Finally we get to ask Charlie some tips and tricks that can help you improve your climbing.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
Charlie's Instagram
Book Virtual Coaching w/ Charlie (Now Accepting New Clients)
As a budding trad climber, climbing hard and improving my grades is something I've struggled with the last several years. Time, energy, and life commitments can make it hard to focus on certain goals. As someone who is always looking to improve, sometimes I need help organizing and focusing on the correct things with my limited time.
You've probably found yourself in a similar situation? Maybe you want to just learn a little more or maybe you want to take your climbing to the next level. One thing is for sure is that a coach can help you ... .push you…. and mentor you ... not only to be a better climber but also to be the best version of yourself. In today's episode we’re sitting down with Charlie Schreiber, a professional boulderer, climber and coach.
Charlie has been coaching adults and climbing at a high level since the age of 16. On a fast track to sitting alongside the most elite climbers in the world, his career came to a sudden shift when he seriously injured his elbow. Now…while still projecting V14, his major focus is creating the next generation of climbers. Charlie now spends most of his time coaching young climbers that are headed to world cups and the olympics.
In this episode we get to hear about Charlie's experiences as a young competition climber, the difficulties of making it as a pro, and the nuances of route setting and training physiology. Finally we get to ask Charlie some tips and tricks that can help you improve your climbing.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
Charlie's Instagram
Book Virtual Coaching w/ Charlie (Now Accepting New Clients)
00:00:00:18 - 00:00:05:18
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Colin I sit down with.
00:00:05:18 - 00:00:06:17
Speaker 2
Living legends.
00:00:06:17 - 00:00:17:18
Speaker 1
Professional athletes, certified guides through recreational climbers. We discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already.
00:00:17:20 - 00:00:19:00
Speaker 2
Please subscribe.
00:00:19:02 - 00:00:21:14
Speaker 1
Rate and review us wherever you get your.
00:00:21:14 - 00:00:25:03
Speaker 2
Podcasts.
00:00:25:05 - 00:00:26:03
Speaker 2
As a budding track.
00:00:26:03 - 00:00:26:14
Speaker 3
Climber.
00:00:26:14 - 00:00:36:04
Speaker 1
Climbing hard and improving my grades is something I've struggled with the last several years. Time, energy and life commitments can make it hard for me to focus on certain goals.
00:00:36:06 - 00:00:37:10
Speaker 2
As someone who is always looking.
00:00:37:10 - 00:00:42:05
Speaker 1
To improve, sometimes I need help organizing and focusing on the correct things with my limited.
00:00:42:05 - 00:00:44:07
Speaker 2
Time. You've probably found yourself.
00:00:44:07 - 00:00:46:15
Speaker 1
In a similar situation. Maybe you just.
00:00:46:15 - 00:00:47:16
Speaker 2
Want to learn a little more.
00:00:47:17 - 00:00:50:09
Speaker 1
Or maybe you want to take your climbing to the next level.
00:00:50:11 - 00:00:51:15
Speaker 2
One thing is for sure.
00:00:51:15 - 00:00:52:12
Speaker 1
A coach can help.
00:00:52:12 - 00:00:53:05
Speaker 3
You.
00:00:53:07 - 00:00:54:22
Speaker 1
Push you and mentor.
00:00:54:22 - 00:00:57:17
Speaker 2
You not only to be the best climber, but to be the.
00:00:57:17 - 00:01:06:05
Speaker 1
Best version of yourself. In this conversation, Kyle and I sit down with Charlie Schreiber, a professional Boulder climber and coach.
00:01:06:07 - 00:01:07:10
Speaker 2
Charlie, amazingly, has.
00:01:07:10 - 00:01:11:23
Speaker 1
Been coaching adults and climbing at a high level since the age of 16.
00:01:12:01 - 00:01:13:05
Speaker 2
On a fast track to sitting.
00:01:13:05 - 00:01:15:01
Speaker 1
Alongside the most elite climbers in the.
00:01:15:01 - 00:01:17:08
Speaker 2
World. His career came to a sudden shift.
00:01:17:08 - 00:01:19:13
Speaker 1
When he seriously injured his elbow.
00:01:19:15 - 00:01:24:17
Speaker 2
Now, while amazingly still projecting V 14. His major focus is.
00:01:24:17 - 00:01:27:11
Speaker 1
Creating the next generation of climbers.
00:01:27:13 - 00:01:28:18
Speaker 2
Charlie currently spends.
00:01:28:18 - 00:01:49:21
Speaker 1
Most of his time coaching young climbers that are headed to World Cups and the Olympics. In this conversation, we get to hear about Charlie's experience as a young competition climber, the difficulties of making it as a pro and the nuances of route setting and training physiology. Finally, we asked Charlie some tips and tricks that can help you with your climbing.
00:01:49:23 - 00:01:51:08
Speaker 2
Without any further delay.
00:01:51:08 - 00:01:52:17
Speaker 1
Enjoy this episode.
00:01:52:20 - 00:02:13:07
Speaker 2
With Charlie and all right. Hello and welcome everyone to the Climbing Majority podcast. We are sitting here with Charlie Schreiber. Welcome to the show, man. Thanks for coming on.
00:02:13:09 - 00:02:19:10
Speaker 4
Thanks, guys. Thank you for having me. Super psyched. This has been a dream for a little bit, so I'm honored.
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Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. It's actually really, really awesome.
00:02:21:16 - 00:02:41:20
Speaker 1
So you I believe we started corresponding through social media and stuff and reached out and kind of saw your page and everything and, you know, obviously quite the climber with a lot of experience and stuff. So it was, yeah, it's really awesome and we're stoked to have you here on the show. And personally I love talking about light training and all that kind of stuff like Route setting really, really fascinated me.
00:02:41:20 - 00:02:45:23
Speaker 1
So I'm, I'm super stoked for our conversation today and to learn a few things.
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Speaker 4
Thank you. Well, I'm hoping I can live up to those expectations.
00:02:51:03 - 00:03:02:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I agree. It's like the person's like, pumping you up before on the show and you're like, Oh, shit. Like, I've got to kill it now, boy. Yeah, No pressure. Wicked man. Well, like, generally in, like, most of the episodes, we.
00:03:02:22 - 00:03:20:17
Speaker 1
Just we like to actually just, like, break down and hear from the guest, you know, like, you know, where are you born, raised? What's a little bit about your story, your background, your history? How did you find climbing and how did climbing become a part of your life? And so I know that's like a lot to digest it, a lot to go into.
00:03:20:17 - 00:03:26:09
Speaker 1
But if you don't mind, kind of starting from the very beginning and we can kind of get into things here, that'd be awesome.
00:03:26:11 - 00:03:27:06
Speaker 2
Cool. Yeah.
00:03:27:06 - 00:03:55:12
Speaker 4
So, I mean, I grew up in North Jersey, so I didn't have the mountains around Jersey. Gets a really bad rap for being the armpit of the country for smelling horrible and like, you know, not being a land of beauty. But it's it's actually really it's special. It's got a bunch of different, really cool brands. And I actually love the mountains in Jersey.
00:03:55:12 - 00:04:15:08
Speaker 4
There's just no rock there, but a bunch of rolling hills, beautiful lake. So when I was young, my dad used to take me out fishing all the time and I got to really I was lucky. My parents always brought me out and took me on a lot of vacations and they were always all about getting out to the heart of nature, getting away from the resort.
00:04:15:08 - 00:04:45:14
Speaker 4
So I quickly developed a love for the natural world. And I was a jock growing up. Did all the sports bull on athlete mode my whole life until I was 13. Like traveled team club, school team, wreck team like four teams every season. And I loved it and I loved moving and being active. But I was also into art and I loved creating my favorite word to this day.
00:04:45:15 - 00:05:10:01
Speaker 4
So whenever I used to see the word create in any assignment, I would light up. So when I was 13 years old, I just started skateboarding and really liked it. And I went to the local skate park because I needed to get a helmet. We were actually on our way up north on Route 17, heading up to New York, and we're passing by the skate park.
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Speaker 4
I told my parents, Wait, wait, wait, can we just go over to the old skate park because I need a new helmet? And we went there and it wasn't a skate park anymore. It had been transformed into a climbing gym, the gravity vault in Upper Salt River. And I walked in and I remember the smell. I remember the sounds.
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Speaker 4
I remember the first people that were there that I talked to. And I remember those walls that I saw. And I just knew instantly this was the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. It was just like eye opening as to how I don't know what the word even would be. Wonderous of an intriguing sight I could see in life.
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Speaker 4
It was just everything that I didn't know that I wanted and more. And I begged my parents to let me try it. And they of course, let me do the do the first thing that you can do, which is a walk in. It's like 20 bucks to get a blade up the wall two times. And I just fell completely in love.
00:06:08:07 - 00:06:23:02
Speaker 4
I didn't stop going for two weeks. I went every day. And they the people that work there forced me to take a rest day and I joined the youth team and it was I have not lost sight for a second ever since.
00:06:23:04 - 00:06:23:18
Speaker 2
Wow.
00:06:23:20 - 00:06:39:15
Speaker 3
That's crazy. A skate park to climb climbing. That's that's an interesting one. I don't think we heard anything like that before on the show. It's pretty remarkable for the sports you were playing. You're like club and rec. Like, that's a pretty serious terminology, especially for a kid so young, like 13. What are we talking here? Are we talking like track?
00:06:39:15 - 00:06:51:03
Speaker 3
Are we talking swimming? Like, Because I know sports are pretty seasonal, so like, usually you, you can't really do everything. You have to kind of like start to pick certain sports per seasons. Did you have certain ones that you were more fluent in?
00:06:51:05 - 00:07:10:09
Speaker 4
Yeah, I was. Baseball was definitely my number one, followed by basketball and then soccer. So I did baseball all year round. Basketball usually all year round also. And then soccer was kind of just like you know, fall. Mhm. But yeah. Do you, do you.
00:07:10:11 - 00:07:23:09
Speaker 3
Do you miss the manipulation of an external object like baseball. You know, you have bats and balls like oh yeah. Climbing is much more of a like internal, you know, fixated sport. Like do you miss that at all.
00:07:23:11 - 00:07:44:11
Speaker 4
I do. I miss the nonstop coordination and feeling of athleticism. That's why I still play basketball whenever I can. And I was every time I go over to my my wife's family's house, the kids there are always playing Wiffle ball and baseball. So we play like every single time. And that's brings me right back.
00:07:44:13 - 00:07:45:02
Speaker 1
That's awesome.
00:07:45:02 - 00:07:47:22
Speaker 4
I miss you. Yeah. Ball sports are fun.
00:07:48:00 - 00:08:05:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I really I really resonate with some of that. Like, I played a lot of team sports growing up. I did go to this climbing gym, which was local here, which is called The Edge. It's now been, you know, kind of like amalgamated into a larger gym called Climb Base five. But I had a similar experience, like when I was younger.
00:08:05:02 - 00:08:05:15
Speaker 2
Well, actually.
00:08:05:17 - 00:08:28:12
Speaker 1
Very different, actually. Not similar. Like I, I climbed I really enjoyed it. Never really got into it or anything. Fell out with a whole bunch of years. And I think maybe like, I don't even know, ten, 15 years later ended up going back and I kind of just instantly was like, except like instead of being like a 13 year old kid, I'm like this like, you know, 24 year old guy.
00:08:28:12 - 00:08:29:11
Speaker 1
And I was like.
00:08:29:13 - 00:08:35:06
Speaker 2
Holy shit, this is this is so awesome. Like, this place is so cool, This is so amazing.
00:08:35:11 - 00:08:36:14
Speaker 1
All the colors, all.
00:08:36:14 - 00:08:47:04
Speaker 2
The hordes I like barely made it up like a59, you know? Yeah, I'm not a gifted climber, and but it was just so amazing, and I just instantly fell in.
00:08:47:04 - 00:08:59:04
Speaker 1
Love and then got into, you know, meeting people were into climbing and outdoors and stuff. So, yeah, it's I think it's such a common thread nowadays, right? You end up going to a climbing gym. It's like your hook. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
00:08:59:06 - 00:09:15:21
Speaker 3
You know, It's, you know what's funny is for the longest time, I actually poo pooed on climbing when I was a kid. Here, like, years I, like would go to Joshua Tree and do a bunch of scrambling and see people climbing. And I was like, all Juggalos, like, who wants to stay in one place for 5 hours and stay on one piece of rock?
00:09:15:21 - 00:09:30:15
Speaker 3
Like I wanted to explore, You know, I thought the sport was stupid. I even went to like a climbing gym and was like, You know, this isn't that cool? Like, I'm stuck on one place for the whole time. And it took me until, you know, 23, 24 to finally, like, make that switch. So it's a completely different story.
00:09:30:15 - 00:09:31:19
Speaker 3
It's just funny.
00:09:31:21 - 00:09:33:06
Speaker 2
Wow. So how do you get into.
00:09:33:06 - 00:09:35:21
Speaker 4
It, Kyle? Like, how do you get actually hooked?
00:09:35:23 - 00:10:02:07
Speaker 3
How did I get hooked? Like back in the day, I was a big, like endurance athletes, so lots of running, lots of covering, lots of ground triathlons, you know, not team sports, all solo and then I stumbled upon a bouldering gym that was nice. I like, enjoyed the movement aspect of it. I started like I had started to body build and I had started to gain more muscle so I could actually like I had more muscle to mine connection.
00:10:02:07 - 00:10:27:10
Speaker 3
And I can actually use my body efficiently, especially my upper body. And so climbing gave me a way to start moving really well. And I loved the movement and the vertical plane. And then my friend was like, Hey, you're pretty good. Like, you could go check out this climbing gym down south. It's got ropes and stuff. And then I had that experience where I walked in, having known like what climbing was and a small scale with bouldering gyms and then seen the ropes, walls and the possibilities.
00:10:27:10 - 00:10:31:07
Speaker 3
And that's when I had that moment where I was just like, All right, this is everything.
00:10:31:09 - 00:10:34:01
Speaker 4
It is everything, isn't it?
00:10:34:03 - 00:10:37:02
Speaker 2
It's the best.
00:10:37:04 - 00:11:01:00
Speaker 4
It's crazy. Max, I love the return story. I hear that a lot, actually, from from different people that they used to do. It took a bunch of years off and just refound it in a completely unforeseen way. And then it grabbed him. Yeah. And something that they didn't have that that popped to them in the beginning is now the focus of their life.
00:11:01:02 - 00:11:07:09
Speaker 4
It's just very interesting to me. I've never really had anything like that in my life, so yes.
00:11:07:11 - 00:11:09:01
Speaker 2
And as someone who had been.
00:11:09:01 - 00:11:40:02
Speaker 1
Athletic for like so many years and then kind of fell out with a lot of, like, athleticism and exercise, I didn't really have an interest in like the organization of team sports anymore and being on other people's time commitments and schedules and that kind of stuff. And so, you know, I was like starting to get into like hiking and scrambling a bit and then found climbing And obviously just like there's, there's so many aspects to climbing in so many different modalities and so many, you know, ways you can chase that out to just be all consuming, essentially.
00:11:40:02 - 00:11:54:07
Speaker 1
And for me, that's like, that's really good. Like I need to exercise all the time where I feel like I'm going crazy and, you know, climbing is just like the perfect avenue to be able to do that and structure it myself. So yeah, it's really awesome.
00:11:54:09 - 00:11:57:11
Speaker 2
But, but so you said you ended up joining.
00:11:57:13 - 00:11:59:19
Speaker 1
The climbing team at the gym, correct?
00:11:59:21 - 00:12:00:23
Speaker 4
Yes.
00:12:01:01 - 00:12:03:01
Speaker 3
How quickly?
00:12:03:03 - 00:12:31:05
Speaker 4
So I joined. Yeah. It was like after the two week mark and I just I needed more. I wanted structure, you know, I'd been on teams for everything else, so and the coach was great. I did a private lesson with the coach and it was so much fun. He was such a great guy and yeah, I just wanted more and I continued to do it for I think I was on the team for, let's see, three and a half years.
00:12:31:06 - 00:12:52:17
Speaker 4
And then I decided to coach myself and that was because the coach that I had at the time, I was really lucky. For the first two and a half years we had one of the best coaches in the country that still is one of the best coaches. And he moved back down to Atlanta where he still coaches. His name is Cloud.
00:12:52:18 - 00:13:22:23
Speaker 4
You would last you. He coaches the Stone Summit team and he was replaced by my coach, Russell Santos, whose kid is actually in USA climbing. Now I see it a lot of competitions and Russell was amazing. The only problem was that no, Russell had another full time job and he was very busy and Russell was a great climber, but I was too.
00:13:23:04 - 00:13:51:00
Speaker 4
I think that I was so endlessly obsessed with climbing and setting and I was getting outdoors and I, you know, my skill set exceeded, I think, what Russell really could give me and that we we both felt it. And I think knew it. And I knew that, you know, my parents also my dad lost his job at the time and staying on the team was financially very difficult.
00:13:51:02 - 00:14:15:07
Speaker 4
So I went off, I started coaching the other kids on the team to make some money also privately and started writing programing myself, which quickly turned into classes for other adults and people that want to get better at climbing. And there was also the kind of the launch point of my coaching career. How how old were you.
00:14:15:07 - 00:14:18:15
Speaker 3
When you started when you walked into the gym?
00:14:18:17 - 00:14:20:00
Speaker 4
13.
00:14:20:01 - 00:14:25:23
Speaker 3
Okay. And then fast forward to where you just left off your writing programs. You're teaching adults. How old are.
00:14:25:23 - 00:14:29:13
Speaker 4
You? 16 and and change.
00:14:29:15 - 00:14:41:22
Speaker 3
Okay, so there's a rapid progression here. I'm curious to dive deep a little bit more into this progression. Were you strictly bouldering or did you start rope climbing right away?
00:14:42:00 - 00:14:45:05
Speaker 4
Both. Yeah, both. I started doing both immediately.
00:14:45:07 - 00:15:05:20
Speaker 3
Okay, let's talk about grades then. So right away, you know, usually we find ourselves kind of like once we understand the movement, once we understand how to move our bodies, we get a little bit more finger strength. We kind of reach this like, plateau where we level out after the rapid increase in skill, you know. How long did that take you to reach your first quote unquote plateau?
00:15:05:20 - 00:15:07:22
Speaker 3
If you did? And where was that?
00:15:08:00 - 00:15:19:10
Speaker 4
I didn't I really didn't plateau until I got hurt, which was about nine or ten years into my climbing career.
00:15:19:12 - 00:15:40:19
Speaker 3
So you're saying, like within the first year, like you just saw like rapid progression, either linear or exponential throughout the first nine years of climbing, you never got to a grade where you're like, okay, like now I need to sit here and like really try and like to get to get better. It's just like I am just continually progressing year after year and.
00:15:40:21 - 00:15:42:06
Speaker 3
Okay, so you're agreeing with that?
00:15:42:06 - 00:15:43:20
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did.
00:15:43:21 - 00:15:44:23
Speaker 2
So what, what.
00:15:44:23 - 00:16:02:01
Speaker 3
Would you attribute that kind of progression to? Because I feel like maybe I'm speaking for myself, but maybe Max can chime in here as well on this. But I feel like a lot of people kind of reach some sort of plateau grade wise in terms of like, All right, this is kind of like my natural wheelhouse of what my body's capable of.
00:16:02:03 - 00:16:14:18
Speaker 3
And if I want to climb harder, I'm going to have to dedicate my life to a certain level of training to progress. So what what do you feel like separated you from that, that kind of status quo?
00:16:14:20 - 00:16:40:13
Speaker 4
Well, very high levels of college and production as a as a youth. And this site I was yeah, I think I've always been possibly the most psyched person in the gym. I just want to keep climbing, want to try the hardest thing possible. And I want to try as hard as I possibly can every time I touch the wall.
00:16:40:13 - 00:16:57:07
Speaker 4
That has always, I think, personally been the thing that contributes to my my improvement from, you know, session in session or just over the long term in general. I never have sessions where I don't feel like trying hard ever.
00:16:57:09 - 00:16:58:02
Speaker 2
Wow.
00:16:58:04 - 00:17:23:20
Speaker 4
You know, from the beginning I think that I, I had great coaching. I didn't get hurt. I never had any tweaks. Nothing. The first nine, like I said, 9 to 10 years, I was so lucky and I was just smart. I didn't really go for anything that I knew would be tricky. I didn't go to hard pass when I knew I was tired.
00:17:23:22 - 00:17:56:05
Speaker 4
I just kind of got lucky where I was doing. All of my habits were the things that you should be doing correctly, but I didn't know that that was the ideal path, you know, It was just how I was functioning. And I really do think that that's the basis for if you were to project how good somebody is going to get in in anything, really, you look at their they're based off of habits, just like their default set of what decisions do they make.
00:17:56:07 - 00:18:11:03
Speaker 4
And I was just lucky. And there are people that are even luckier or even smarter. Obviously I could have gotten much better, much faster, but I'm definitely appreciative of the habits that I developed early.
00:18:11:05 - 00:18:15:14
Speaker 1
So I've got a quick question for you here. Within the first year of climbing, what kind of grades were you climbing.
00:18:15:16 - 00:18:19:18
Speaker 4
In The first year, I went from 0 to 4.
00:18:19:20 - 00:18:20:14
Speaker 2
V four to.
00:18:20:16 - 00:18:21:11
Speaker 4
Zero to be four.
00:18:21:16 - 00:18:22:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:18:22:19 - 00:18:26:03
Speaker 1
Sweet. Awesome. Okay.
00:18:26:05 - 00:18:27:06
Speaker 2
And then so you're.
00:18:27:06 - 00:18:30:02
Speaker 1
Saying you got this this injury?
00:18:30:04 - 00:18:31:13
Speaker 2
What was this injury like?
00:18:31:13 - 00:18:32:06
Speaker 1
Could you elaborate.
00:18:32:06 - 00:18:34:02
Speaker 2
On that a little bit?
00:18:34:03 - 00:18:40:05
Speaker 4
Well, like fast forward ten years, I guess. Yeah.
00:18:40:07 - 00:18:42:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, why not? I feel like that's kind of where we are.
00:18:42:23 - 00:18:46:10
Speaker 1
Like, So you've had this, like, progression. You train.
00:18:46:10 - 00:18:50:05
Speaker 2
Your while? Yeah, I mean, maybe fill in the gap a little bit there and.
00:18:50:05 - 00:18:52:21
Speaker 1
Then will progressing to the, the injury.
00:18:52:22 - 00:19:12:10
Speaker 4
Right. I think my second year was the best year that I had in climbing because I there's a really pivotal time. I went away to camp. I got to before I didn't think I went to camp and I came back and I had gone through the first stages of puberty and when I came back I exploded like I went.
00:19:12:10 - 00:19:33:14
Speaker 4
I remember I came back. It took me like a week to get back from like I took the summer off of climbing. I was just doing the local while at my camp at sleepaway camp, and I went, got back and went from like V2 to V for just getting back into it. And then I got back up to be five in like the next month.
00:19:33:16 - 00:19:54:09
Speaker 4
And then by the end of that year, I remember it was in time for regionals. The next year I was or that I'm sorry, that winter I was climbing. V eight So in a season I went down before to V eight and I think it was like massively. I mean, I was also climbing like five or six days a week.
00:19:54:10 - 00:20:01:23
Speaker 4
Then back then my skin was actually really good. I could climb all the time and I wouldn't like my skin start to be sore.
00:20:02:01 - 00:20:03:05
Speaker 2
Oh yeah.
00:20:03:07 - 00:20:14:23
Speaker 4
Yeah. That, that set me up. And then I think over the next like eight years, it was a gradual and steady climb from 8 to 12.
00:20:15:01 - 00:20:19:18
Speaker 1
And then I got to grade you're at is V 12.
00:20:19:20 - 00:20:40:10
Speaker 4
Yeah. V 12. I'm definitely much stronger and much better at climbing than I was then. Back then I was getting outside and projecting a lot more than I than I am now. I do not have the time that I used to have, but v 13 is currently the goal. I do think. I don't think I know I can do v 13 I know I can do v 14.
00:20:40:10 - 00:20:45:02
Speaker 4
I just need to have the time to actually get out there and do it.
00:20:45:04 - 00:20:46:05
Speaker 1
And so is this an outside.
00:20:46:05 - 00:20:46:21
Speaker 2
Grader in.
00:20:46:21 - 00:20:49:03
Speaker 1
The gym you're talking about outside?
00:20:49:05 - 00:20:49:18
Speaker 4
Outside.
00:20:49:20 - 00:20:51:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. Okay. Got you.
00:20:51:16 - 00:21:13:21
Speaker 3
At what point? So I'm curious. It seems like some try to put myself in your shoes so, you know, you're an athlete, you're in club sports, you get thrown into climbing and you immediately treat it like a like a like a professional athlete. So in my eyes, you are progressing towards becoming a professional climber at this point, two years in, is that correct?
00:21:13:23 - 00:21:15:17
Speaker 4
That was the goal.
00:21:15:19 - 00:21:20:10
Speaker 3
So your key word there was what happened?
00:21:20:11 - 00:21:28:07
Speaker 4
Oh, no. I mean, that was the goal. When I it was two years in, I didn't have anywhere near the skill sets to actually do it. I was in my notebook is are you are.
00:21:28:07 - 00:21:33:12
Speaker 3
You are you currently pursuing becoming a professional climber now.
00:21:33:14 - 00:21:45:19
Speaker 4
Yeah I've it was about seven years ago I a before that actually I did start to you quote unquote went went professional capades right. Yeah.
00:21:45:21 - 00:22:04:06
Speaker 3
Nice. Okay cool. Yeah for some reason for some reason I thought that I think when we did our meet and greet you would talked about there being like a barrier and you kind of like were frustrated with the process of, of professional athletes a little bit and I was curious as to kind of what that process was. And I was kind of trying to allude into that story a little bit.
00:22:04:06 - 00:22:05:13
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.
00:22:05:15 - 00:22:15:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. Because it sounded like like, I don't know, I guess I'm projecting here like, Max, help me out here. Do you know what I'm trying to say here?
00:22:15:06 - 00:22:17:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I get it. I think when we discussed, it was like.
00:22:17:16 - 00:22:30:11
Speaker 1
Maybe there was, like, some kind of, like, bureaucracy or issues with, like, the climbing community were in some capacity, like you. You felt like, out of place or something. And maybe are we projecting here or is that something that you were, you know.
00:22:30:11 - 00:22:30:18
Speaker 4
That's.
00:22:30:23 - 00:22:31:19
Speaker 2
Like.
00:22:31:21 - 00:23:03:22
Speaker 4
Definitely felt that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's it's kind of like, you know, I was a sponsored athlete a while ago. I've been a sponsored athlete for a while and I, you know, compete in open competitions, get paid. I was getting paid by smaller companies to represent them and to go to competitions. But it's kind of like you've got, you know, low LeBron James and then you've got the guys on the bench that are getting paid, but nobody knows their name.
00:23:04:00 - 00:23:27:05
Speaker 4
Yeah, like and LeBron James, he I mean, he might be a great guy. I don't know. But, you know, there's this type of superstars that they're superstars and they act like superstars and they know they're a superstar and it goes to their head and they only talk and associate with other superstars. And if you're not a superstar, they don't want to talk to you because they're a superstar and you're not.
00:23:27:10 - 00:23:30:21
Speaker 3
So what makes a superstar.
00:23:30:23 - 00:24:09:15
Speaker 4
What makes a superstar is you really you think you're a superstar? I think there's a couple of definitions of a superstar. I think that you could look at it in terms of somebody that's actually in the upper, you know, the top five in the sport per for their gender or the top ten whatever. I don't know how we would define it, but then it's I guess I would it would just be an inflated ego due to, you know, or an unnecessary arrogance or But you're.
00:24:09:17 - 00:24:30:08
Speaker 3
So it's funny, there's like this juxtaposition. It sounds like you're saying that you need an inflated ego and a bit of arrogance to become a superstar. Are you saying no? But you're saying it's required almost, right? Is it like kind of this weird thing where you have to have it but you shouldn't or you're just saying it's a product of the system?
00:24:30:11 - 00:24:42:15
Speaker 4
I was trying to tie the superstar analogy into the dilemma that you were alluding to before. I'm saying that there are superstars and then there are superstars that are very arrogant because.
00:24:42:17 - 00:24:43:06
Speaker 2
There are.
00:24:43:10 - 00:25:05:15
Speaker 4
The people at the very top of our sport that are sweethearts. You know, when I would see them at competitions, it doesn't matter if they climb v 16 outside, they would talk to me. We would have good rapport every time at the competition and they were just a normal person. And then there were other people that climb the same grades that are just as famous in the climbing community and accomplish that.
00:25:05:15 - 00:25:14:03
Speaker 4
When you talk to them, they just stare at you or and just walk away and only talk to the other superstars.
00:25:14:05 - 00:25:15:19
Speaker 3
Interesting.
00:25:15:21 - 00:25:17:03
Speaker 2
Interesting, like the competitive.
00:25:17:03 - 00:25:29:20
Speaker 1
Nature and stuff. Because my experience is climbing, which is obviously in no way like structured, competitive or anything. It's it's in a very casual capacity, like most of the outdoor climbers that I know.
00:25:29:22 - 00:25:30:18
Speaker 2
They're very, very.
00:25:30:18 - 00:25:55:16
Speaker 1
Nice kind people. They're extremely humble or they're very, very shy. There's no kind of like, like egotistical capacity or like judgment laid on to other people, you know? And that's something that I really, really appreciate actually about climbing is that I do find the majority of the climbers that I've ever dealt with or run into just are very, very wholesome, kind people, you know.
00:25:55:18 - 00:26:16:10
Speaker 1
So I think that's a really interesting like juxtaposition to be like in a in a competitive world in a more like it's almost like a more traditional sport at that point. You know what I mean? When you're like on a competition circuit, you're bouldering and you're training, you're a part of teams. Like it's it's it's very different essentially, right?
00:26:16:10 - 00:26:25:16
Speaker 1
So I don't know. Yeah, it's it's interesting. So do you still are you still competing? Are you still like, on the circuit doing that?
00:26:25:18 - 00:26:50:17
Speaker 4
No, I haven't been on the circuit for a while. I did a competition when I came back from my trip, which is fun. But the. No, no, I'm not doing any anymore. I, you know, after I got hurt, it went from me feeling like I was on a continuous upward trend to taking a big step back. And it took me a while to recover.
00:26:50:17 - 00:27:18:23
Speaker 4
And when I did feel like I got close to being back to where I was when I reentered the competition, started losing to people that were far younger than me and that had been climbing for far less than me. And that was very frustrating. And I thought about the overall experiences and I stopped getting the same amount of joy and fulfillment and I decided, Stop.
00:27:19:01 - 00:27:27:08
Speaker 1
Gotcha. So you just feel like maybe it was kind of like just time to move on to different aspects of climbing or to kind of pass the torch essentially in some way?
00:27:27:10 - 00:27:29:04
Speaker 2
You know.
00:27:29:06 - 00:27:51:01
Speaker 4
Both. Definitely. Like a lot of the kids that I coach are all the kids that I coach honestly, in on the East Coast and even nationally right now are the kids that are winning every time. So it's yeah, feels great to watch the kids that I coach, you know, follow my in my footsteps and become the new champions.
00:27:51:01 - 00:28:03:13
Speaker 4
But know I, I put off my outdoor goals for too long and, and it's funny, I'm still like putting them off but that's why I'm going on my my trip in, like three and a half weeks because.
00:28:03:18 - 00:28:04:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:28:04:10 - 00:28:09:00
Speaker 4
I want to train to reach new goals.
00:28:09:01 - 00:28:10:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:10:12 - 00:28:31:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know, I know. Max wants to jump into, like, some training physiology and some coaching. I'm curious a little bit while we're on this topic of of professional athletes, I think that, you know, as someone who can, you know, very loosely in the beginning stages, as I'm sure other climbers do this, they loosely are like, Oh yeah, I want to be a professional climber, too.
00:28:31:19 - 00:28:53:14
Speaker 3
And they like kind of have this pipe dream. Like if you were just kind of as a professional climber yourself to someone who might be getting into the sport, feels like they have an aptitude and might want to chase that goal in a serious manner, maybe lay out the different paths that someone can take to kind of chase that goal.
00:28:53:16 - 00:29:12:17
Speaker 3
Because in my eyes it's like, you know, you can go the competition route, then you got to be, it seems to me like you got to be kind of indoctrinated into that system as a young kid these days and coached by someone like yourself or, you know, you can focus on outdoor objectives and, you know, face and make a name for yourself that way.
00:29:12:19 - 00:29:22:13
Speaker 3
You know, maybe talk to us a little bit about those paths and kind of how you would advise someone on the path to professional climber being a being a professional climber.
00:29:22:15 - 00:29:51:06
Speaker 4
Yeah, there's two there's definitely two ways. You know, it's it's the competitions or it's like you said, outdoor performance. The only thing is like, you know, there are there's one thing that brands care about that are going to sponsor you or that are going to pay you to do anything. And that's if you and your performance results in marketing and more sales in their product.
00:29:51:08 - 00:30:25:02
Speaker 4
That's it. No, the people want to people that are running these companies want to know that if I put my name next to this athlete's name, people are going to associate this athlete's performance with the use of our product and they're going to want to purchase it too. So if you're not giving them either that or just straight up use and marketing outreach, they have no reason to to sponsor you.
00:30:25:04 - 00:30:56:15
Speaker 4
So the kids that I coach right now that are at the top, I am really trying to coach them also on developing their themselves professionally. And that is honestly right now it's having a social media following and having your own brand awareness. It's going to as many events as you can and getting as much footage and as much material as you possibly can is, you know, constantly training to succeed.
00:30:56:17 - 00:31:24:20
Speaker 4
Honestly, nowadays it's kind of you have to do a little bit of both. If you're a youth climber coming up, you have to compete to get your name out there because that is unbelievably effective. You do well in competitions that basically almost immortalize you in the competition world and then outdoors. There are a lot of kids that you know right now aren't even climbing outside that are just competition climbers that have become professional.
00:31:24:22 - 00:31:49:20
Speaker 4
But then if you're going to do it outside, you basically have to commit yourself even more. You know, you have to travel to many different areas. You have to spend longer days outside. You have to focus on getting, like you said, first ascents or repeating the hardest boulders possible. And it's tough. But you you kind of have to do everything right now.
00:31:49:20 - 00:31:56:11
Speaker 4
I think. I don't have any kids that right now that I'm working with that just do one.
00:31:56:13 - 00:32:00:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's fair. And I think that. Go ahead, Max. Well, I just thinking.
00:32:00:07 - 00:32:10:22
Speaker 1
Climbing, obviously there's this there's a large spectrum to scale. So I'm wondering like for both male and female, like at what.
00:32:10:23 - 00:32:12:10
Speaker 2
The grade or.
00:32:12:10 - 00:32:23:23
Speaker 1
Yosemite decimal grade, are you really going to start to be considered or have the potential to be a professional climber?
00:32:24:01 - 00:32:30:11
Speaker 4
So, I mean, you can climb, be three and be professional, you know, then you've got to have a lot of followers on Instagram.
00:32:30:13 - 00:32:31:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:32:31:09 - 00:32:58:13
Speaker 4
That's not you. But let's be honest, I, I know of of you. They're both on professional. It's also representing a certain demographic. You know, if you represent a an entire demographic and you are the poster child for that demographic and you have a lot of followers and Instagram, it basically doesn't matter. You don't even have to be like, you can just be somebody that posts funny content or shareable content.
00:32:58:15 - 00:33:06:11
Speaker 4
And if you're going to get them the views, you're you're going to get the free shoes, you're going to get paid for your content. What if.
00:33:06:11 - 00:33:07:14
Speaker 2
We were going to exclude that.
00:33:07:14 - 00:33:09:22
Speaker 1
Demographic and we were talking just purely from.
00:33:09:22 - 00:33:12:00
Speaker 2
Like someone who doesn't have.
00:33:12:00 - 00:33:26:03
Speaker 1
A large social media following? That's not what they're focusing on. They're going to become pro purely on their own, you know, skill and ability as a climber, what kind of grades are we? What kind of grades are we looking at there? Like in general, does that make sense?
00:33:26:03 - 00:33:42:15
Speaker 4
How much harder, so much harder to be a 17 boulder, But not having a following? Maybe 17 is an exaggeration, but I can guarantee you there are 15 boulders and probably 515 sport climbers that are not getting paid.
00:33:42:16 - 00:33:43:16
Speaker 3
Or no one even knows.
00:33:43:16 - 00:33:45:09
Speaker 4
About or no one knows about them, Right?
00:33:45:11 - 00:34:06:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, And I think that so it sounds to me like you either have to find your niche and get a social media following or a brand awareness or your own brand awareness or you need to be app like pushing the sport. But even then, you know, pushing the sport, that in itself is giving you brand awareness because people are like, Oh, what the hell is this guy doing?
00:34:06:18 - 00:34:29:02
Speaker 3
You know? And then you garnish attention and people are interested in what you're doing because you are advancing the sport. So it seems like the caveat to that is it really doesn't matter what you do as long as your end result is your own brand awareness, which is a bit dark. But it seems like that's that's the that's where we are.
00:34:29:04 - 00:34:43:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's, it's not like, you know, your, your, your bank account is attached to, you know, a a graded pay scale system where the higher grades you climb, the more cash starts coming in. That would be pretty cool. I'd be, I'd sign up for that program.
00:34:43:13 - 00:34:44:15
Speaker 4
That would be sick.
00:34:44:17 - 00:34:47:05
Speaker 3
All right so you little stress.
00:34:47:05 - 00:34:49:11
Speaker 4
Yeah, that would be cool.
00:34:49:12 - 00:34:52:05
Speaker 3
You, like, get through an injury, You're like, No, I'm broke.
00:34:52:07 - 00:34:54:09
Speaker 4
Yeah, it's serious.
00:34:54:11 - 00:35:11:17
Speaker 3
But yeah, I know. That's an interesting conversation to be had for sure. I think that it is. It is a bit sad, I think, at least from the eyes of an athlete, you know, you're all you want to do is focus on the sport and the craft and becoming a better climber and focusing on climbing. But there's like this other side to it.
00:35:11:17 - 00:35:38:22
Speaker 3
If you want to make money or you have to be marketable because, you know, in the end, if you're going to be getting receiving money for your climbing, someone has to be paying you for it. And so, you know, it's not like you can just do a patriot and be like, hey, I climb hard, support me. You know, you're not really offering anything to anybody else except for yourself in your own pursuit of climbing know perfection and athleticism.
00:35:38:22 - 00:35:39:16
Speaker 3
So. Right.
00:35:39:20 - 00:35:45:19
Speaker 4
It's interesting in all professional sports, it's you're literally just paid for. How many eyeballs are on you? That's it.
00:35:45:19 - 00:35:46:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:35:46:13 - 00:35:56:12
Speaker 4
Or acting like anything. If you are how many eyeballs are staring at you at any given time is how much you will be making at any given time.
00:35:56:14 - 00:36:13:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, I'm scalability, right? 100%. You are the product essentially and you're selling things right, which is like your time money association with brands, all that kind of stuff. So that's really interesting. How do you find climbing? You know, obviously climbing starting to explode.
00:36:13:01 - 00:36:16:00
Speaker 2
We were just in the Olympics. I feel like with.
00:36:16:00 - 00:36:18:04
Speaker 1
More traditional team sports, there's like.
00:36:18:07 - 00:36:19:16
Speaker 2
Really.
00:36:19:18 - 00:36:38:20
Speaker 1
These kind of linear paths to, okay, you're super talented. You get on a team when you're young. That team gets built up. You probably maybe go to a university or you end up on some kind of national team that's very structured, has a lot of funding, and it kind of builds people up into this linear path into the upper echelons of sports.
00:36:38:20 - 00:36:42:02
Speaker 1
It is like NHL, the NFL.
00:36:42:04 - 00:36:43:15
Speaker 2
How do you feel.
00:36:43:17 - 00:37:01:14
Speaker 1
That kind of path is for for people maybe in North America you could separate areas like Europe. North America, I'm sure, is very different. How that linear path is for climbers to actually become these these pro athletes, whether that be outdoor climbing or or on the competition circuit.
00:37:01:16 - 00:37:32:03
Speaker 4
Um, I, I think it's probably structured similarly to what I remember from, from my, my other sports when I was younger. I mean, I, I know that USA climbing is not supported or there's not nearly as much money is in it as there are in other sports. But climbing gyms are really accessible to, you know, virtually every person that I know that's, you know, climbing at a gym.
00:37:32:05 - 00:37:58:04
Speaker 4
And there are teams at basically every single climbing gym that exist. There are coaches at every gym that exists. And like anything, it's, you know, there's variation in quality of both of those things the gym, the facility and the coaching. There are camps and clinics for kids to attend. Definitely not nearly as many as there are in other sports.
00:37:58:06 - 00:38:29:08
Speaker 4
I think that there's just you know, because there there aren't games and regular, you know, like ornaments, like other sports. We have the competitions once a weekend, but in other club sports, I remember I used to have multiple games a week, so I and we would have a lot of practices. I think that because there are fewer gyms, it's just not as popular of a sport.
00:38:29:10 - 00:38:51:18
Speaker 4
I do think that people do have to be a little bit more autonomous in their training, getting to the gym more often, even on like when I used to coach the the elite team at our at our gym, we still practice only three days a week with a fourth day that, you know, it was optional. And it was quite obvious that the kids that are climbing five days a week are getting much better, much faster.
00:38:51:20 - 00:39:23:09
Speaker 4
But I still have kids that are coming in, you know, three days a week because that's all their parents can get them. They're that want to make it to the national finals. And it just it's not going to happen because it's not a part of the climbing process. You know, it's it is such a casual thing for so many people that do it that, you know, like when you're a kid and you join one of these school teams right out of the gates, they tell you like, this is how school baseball works.
00:39:23:11 - 00:39:56:02
Speaker 4
We practice four days a week. We have two games a week, and this is what it is. Climbing is just different. It's hard when you you really can't tell people that it's difficult. We're trying to find a way to cater towards the kids that do want that higher end right now. And I think that a lot gyms should do that because there are so many kids that have to have so many days independent and their rate of improvement could be much better if they did.
00:39:56:03 - 00:40:04:22
Speaker 4
But it also you need a motivated coach for all of it, and there's just not a ton of highly motivated coaches in the sport.
00:40:05:00 - 00:40:11:17
Speaker 3
Do you think that it's because parents and certain people still see the sport of climbing as recreational?
00:40:11:19 - 00:40:14:02
Speaker 4
Yeah, I do.
00:40:14:02 - 00:40:48:01
Speaker 3
And my second question to this is, you know, so club gymnastics, right? You know, kids are indoctrinated into new tactics when they're like two, three years old and they're working out five days a week. My you know, my girlfriend was a the next club gymnasts, you know, on the track for Olympics do you see climbing either headed that way at least in a certain segment or do you feel like there are certain areas, maybe gyms in the states that are already at that level of indoctrination and training where we are breeding humans to become the best climbers in the world?
00:40:48:03 - 00:41:23:13
Speaker 4
I don't really know of anyone that's doing it quite like that I think that, you know, just by the nature of our sport, it's a little bit more playful than gymnastic. It's so regiment in gymnastics and I think it has room because of that to get a lot more serious and a lot more regimented in its in our training, as long as we keep the fun aspect in it because, you know, I have, I have practices with my with my team all the time where they're drilling the whole time.
00:41:23:14 - 00:41:52:08
Speaker 4
Yeah, we're doing things that are making them better at specific skills, the entire practice, but they're having fun the whole time, you know, And I'm sure that is the case in, in many aspects of gymnastics. But I used to actually coached gymnastics and I, I just remember a lot of it is, you know, standing and waiting and then doing something that you have to do the same to movements over and over and over and over again.
00:41:52:10 - 00:42:09:03
Speaker 4
And it's brutal on the body, too. You know, climbing is as well. But you can you know, you can do a lot more skill based, just passive light movement, I think, than you can in in a lot of the disciplines in gymnastics. Yeah.
00:42:09:07 - 00:42:34:04
Speaker 3
So with with that with that in mind with the room for regimented training programs, where do you see the sport of climbing going grade wise? Do you see a limit to human potential grade wise? Do you feel like we're close to it or do you feel like we have a long way to go?
00:42:34:06 - 00:43:03:20
Speaker 4
I definitely think we have a long way to go. I think that, you know, a certain point it is just going to be beyond what the human body. There's a limit, right? There absolutely is a limit to what we can do. Right, Obviously. But I, I definitely think that science is going to keep improving and it's going to keep permeating through to the masses.
00:43:03:22 - 00:43:36:02
Speaker 4
And you will have many people that start doing the right things very, very early with kids that are extremely young and they're going to have much better skill, much better strength, and they'll either be able to push it to the next goal. I think that the next level in a wider range, I think will have kids and people that can push to the next level in many different areas of climbing.
00:43:36:04 - 00:43:57:19
Speaker 4
And I also because I think that kids will also grow having to adapt to the multiple challenges of indoor competition. And and I also think that if people will just because they have science in the very beginning, be stronger than the people are today and be able to pull harder moves. Yes, absolutely.
00:43:57:21 - 00:44:24:02
Speaker 1
I also think just the genetic pool, you know, we see the Serena Williams, the LeBron James like these these kind of individuals. You know, if you have climbing, grow enough where there's enough gyms actually offered to the populace and you have a much larger genetic pool interested in the sport. And then if you dangle like a carrot that's that says, you know, you get paid $20 million a year to do this sport.
00:44:24:05 - 00:44:41:22
Speaker 1
You know, if you have this kind of end goal where maybe climbing mainstreams, where you can actually make like huge incomes from it, like in a team sport, like the NBA and stuff, you know, I think at that point, like you're going to see you're going to have you're going to have more potential from people genetically going into it.
00:44:41:22 - 00:45:02:13
Speaker 1
It's like as much as, you know, Adam Ondra is obviously a complete genetic freak. I'm sure that someone has existed on this planet that has more genetic potential and climbing than him that just never had the opportunity to climb, if that makes sense. You know, which is really interesting. So, yeah, who knows? You know, I'm really curious.
00:45:02:13 - 00:45:03:07
Speaker 2
If Reno's jump.
00:45:03:10 - 00:45:05:01
Speaker 1
Into this. I would.
00:45:05:03 - 00:45:06:17
Speaker 2
I would. I would love to move on.
00:45:06:17 - 00:45:15:03
Speaker 1
To some training staff and kind of your coaching style and to learn some things like that. But I am curious, what was the injury you sustained, if you don't mind saying.
00:45:15:05 - 00:45:20:00
Speaker 4
I sprained the collateral ligament in my left elbow.
00:45:20:01 - 00:45:20:11
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:45:20:16 - 00:45:25:19
Speaker 2
Who sounds bad for me? Collateral. That that ligament, I think it's called.
00:45:25:19 - 00:45:29:04
Speaker 1
It's named after a baseball player. Jones I think so.
00:45:29:04 - 00:45:30:17
Speaker 3
Right. Tommy Jones.
00:45:30:17 - 00:45:31:09
Speaker 2
Is it Jones.
00:45:31:09 - 00:45:33:05
Speaker 4
I mean, John. Tommy. John. Tommy. John.
00:45:33:06 - 00:45:36:04
Speaker 2
Tommy. John Yeah. So that's that can actually be.
00:45:36:04 - 00:45:38:19
Speaker 1
Really serious, right? If you really hurt that.
00:45:38:21 - 00:45:41:23
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was bad.
00:45:42:01 - 00:45:44:03
Speaker 1
It just, it still to this day.
00:45:44:04 - 00:46:13:11
Speaker 4
Yeah, I was not smart about how I went about rehabbing it. I went to a party that didn't really understand climbing and also didn't give me the best, I think like, yeah, you know, he didn't tell me what I really shouldn't be doing. Honestly, the guidance, I just I should have been a lot better about the rehab. He should have given me much better protocols and it didn't heal properly.
00:46:13:17 - 00:46:34:09
Speaker 4
It's if I do the right things, I avoid going overboard with volume or doing narrow compression and squeezing in my elbows. Fine. But if I do a little bit too much or do something really dynamic where I slam it like a slope or coming in towards my body, yet it can be inflamed and weaker for a bit.
00:46:34:11 - 00:46:35:15
Speaker 1
How did you hurt it? How did.
00:46:35:15 - 00:46:36:21
Speaker 3
It happen?
00:46:36:23 - 00:47:04:09
Speaker 4
Oh, man, did It was it sucked. I was literally at the peak. I was having the best climbing day I'd ever had in my life. I had this goal of sending every V ten at this local gym that I used to go to in a session. And I had one more that I had to do that session. And I had the two days I'm sorry, the three days before that, been working all day, every day, stripping and resetting this wall to be the speed wall.
00:47:04:09 - 00:47:46:18
Speaker 4
So we had just an absurd amount of work climbing up and down behind the wall, hauling things up, carrying. But my body was so tired and but I was also so thin because I was I had like, dropped like three or £4 in those three days. And I was also really well trained. And I just I think that my body was at its breaking point and I was doing a lock off to literally finish the boulder had finally busted through the cracks, which took me like eight attempts last move, easy and out of nowhere on my left arm I just feel and here and freaked out and start crying because it was the first injury
00:47:46:18 - 00:48:05:04
Speaker 4
I'd ever had. I knew it was really serious and I had comps coming up. I was psyched on the World Cup circuit that next year and the I was training for the Olympics in a couple of years and yeah, it was all my goals I saw. I just slowly crumble away.
00:48:05:06 - 00:48:08:00
Speaker 2
You know, we're no stranger to injuries here and stuff.
00:48:08:00 - 00:48:34:11
Speaker 1
And not that I'm comparing like, you know, the loss or I wasn't quite a physical specimen or athlete. But I do think, you know, sometimes, you know, sometimes some things are meant to be where it's like and obviously I'm projecting here, but like, you know, you're like coaching full time. You have this business. You're like helping people fulfill, like their dream in some capacity doing that, you know, it's like sometimes, unfortunately bad things happen, but there can be a silver lining if you're looking for it.
00:48:34:11 - 00:48:36:09
Speaker 2
In some capacity, if that makes sense. Right?
00:48:36:09 - 00:48:41:22
Speaker 4
So, no, absolutely. I completely agree with you. I'm grateful, honestly.
00:48:42:00 - 00:48:50:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. So you hear that climbing majority go at it. So yeah, it'll change your life. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Highly recommend. Yeah.
00:48:50:07 - 00:49:03:22
Speaker 4
I can't I couldn't use my terms for, like, it was like 14 weeks. I didn't use air, which was terrible, horrible advice. But all I did was handle the slab climbing and now slab is my my strength. So.
00:49:04:02 - 00:49:15:07
Speaker 2
Hey, what's up? I love to know that. That's. That's really interesting, man. Yeah, Cool. Well, I think this is a good place to kind of, like, jump into.
00:49:15:09 - 00:49:16:22
Speaker 1
Like, you know, training.
00:49:16:22 - 00:49:18:16
Speaker 2
Physiology and stuff.
00:49:18:18 - 00:49:19:18
Speaker 1
If you're okay talking.
00:49:19:18 - 00:49:22:17
Speaker 2
About that, I'd love to know. Like, I definitely really like.
00:49:22:17 - 00:49:34:03
Speaker 1
To emphasize, you know, like, I love the science of training. I'm not an expert on it and the human body and all those things. And I think some people.
00:49:34:06 - 00:49:34:13
Speaker 2
Put.
00:49:34:13 - 00:49:47:20
Speaker 1
A lot of emphasis on that and others don't, if that makes sense. Do you put a huge amount of emphasis and emphasis on that, like structured training like that, like like what? What is kind of your style of coaching?
00:49:47:22 - 00:50:29:15
Speaker 4
Yeah, I do. I, I mean, to ignore science and ignore all of the studies that people have put tremendous amount of effort. You know, the, the people that are the most motivated and most qualified to, you know, push the boundaries of what we understand about how to best train for the sport I think is ridiculous. So I try to keep as current on everything as they possibly I've read all of the training books that exist out there, and I'm constantly trying to improve, you know, the way that I can tailor different programs to different athletes with different goals, with different training ages and everything.
00:50:29:15 - 00:51:05:06
Speaker 4
So I, I absolutely use a scientific approach to every type of program I design. And this point, you know, it's I'm happy that I've been able to use myself as and the teams that I've coached as like a trial and an error system mostly myself, I tend to only use the the things that work on the kids. But yeah, I guess I'm getting away from the question a bit.
00:51:05:08 - 00:51:11:10
Speaker 2
But I think that was really good. Yeah. So like, I guess like maybe if we could just.
00:51:11:10 - 00:51:17:18
Speaker 1
Like, talk about like a structured approach for somebody like who is, who is getting into climbing. Like, do.
00:51:17:18 - 00:51:18:07
Speaker 2
You.
00:51:18:07 - 00:51:36:13
Speaker 1
Do you do like, like, like block periodization, essentially, like where you focus a specific training block on strength and then a specific training block on power, a specific training block on endurance. Do you kind of amalgamate them all together? Like what? What is an approach you have for somebody?
00:51:36:14 - 00:51:52:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. So if somebody does come to me, usually I go and so everything I do, all the programing I do is goal based. I really don't like. I don't even get anybody that really comes to me and says, I just want to get better at climbing.
00:51:52:19 - 00:51:53:00
Speaker 2
You know.
00:51:53:04 - 00:52:19:14
Speaker 4
I have had a couple of those people that for sure I like to market myself as somebody that likes to move people towards goals. I think that's by far the easiest way to get better at anything. And I emphasize that when I work with anybody. And so I choose different periodization cycles to to kind of build up towards whatever specific type of goal somebody brings to me.
00:52:19:17 - 00:52:45:19
Speaker 4
So if they were to tell me I just want to get better at climbing, typically I will say that's excellent. Let's pick a measurable goal that we can aim towards in, let's say, six months. So now what does that look like when you are let's say you're a V for a climber, you want to get to the you won't be able to do these six.
00:52:45:21 - 00:53:09:03
Speaker 4
I say, okay, do you want to be able to do these six inside or outside? Do I be able to climb V six on the culture board, which is what you just told me you're climbing on all the time. And depending on what style they're best at, that's usually what I will use to determine what the type of training will be in order to achieve the goal most easily.
00:53:09:05 - 00:53:54:13
Speaker 4
If they tell me it's something that if they tell me that they want to be more rounded, more well-rounded, and be better at all styles of climbing, then I'll take a more technical approach. I'll usually increase their capacity. So build a base level of of this all around endurance in all aspects of strength, and then build a base fitness in the beginning usually cycle or to has building a lot of capacity takes time and then I'll use an increased capacity to, provide them with as much climbing time on the wall as possible so that they can actually recover from it.
00:53:54:15 - 00:53:59:00
Speaker 2
So like, I'm kind of wondering like at what point do you think there's just like more.
00:53:59:00 - 00:54:13:15
Speaker 1
Utility and just actually climbing as much as possible rather than having like a super structured approach? Like, I really like structure approaches. I think they're kind of like just fascinating and interesting to just like orchestrate and to just have and to have that structure.
00:54:13:20 - 00:54:15:11
Speaker 2
But like, let's say somebody.
00:54:15:11 - 00:54:22:15
Speaker 1
Is like overemphasizing, you know, they're reading, you know, like training for climbing by air, of course, or something.
00:54:22:20 - 00:54:23:14
Speaker 2
Like if you're.
00:54:23:14 - 00:54:25:05
Speaker 1
Climbing five, seven.
00:54:25:07 - 00:54:26:12
Speaker 2
You don't really.
00:54:26:14 - 00:54:33:04
Speaker 1
And I mean, I guess this is my interpretation, but like, you'd almost just benefit from just climbing all the time.
00:54:33:07 - 00:54:34:03
Speaker 2
It's like you almost don't.
00:54:34:03 - 00:54:45:05
Speaker 1
Even need to about like a seriously structure approach if you just went climbing all the time, five days a week, six days a week, you would start progressing and then maybe plateauing. And so I'm wondering like.
00:54:45:07 - 00:54:46:09
Speaker 2
At what level.
00:54:46:09 - 00:55:07:17
Speaker 1
Do you think like a climber should really start getting into a structured approach where you're looking at like, you know, doing these kind of cycles or getting into finger boarding or canvasing or any of these kind of things? Like is there generally like a grade that you look at and you say, like probably around here you want to start thinking about something like that.
00:55:07:19 - 00:55:29:11
Speaker 4
Okay. So I hear that all the time and I get the face value validity in telling someone in the beginning, climb as much as you can. But what typically happens with beginners is they climb. If they do climb as much as they can, there's a weekly link in their chain and they're going to get hurt. Climbing is very hard to control.
00:55:29:11 - 00:56:12:21
Speaker 4
They have low levels of coordination. They don't have great technique. They're probably pulling on their hands too much. If they're not, that means that they are probably lacking strength, which means that they're just by knowing that that they have joints or soft tissue that is not up to withstand loads that are not completely controllable. So when when you tell somebody climb as much as you can, whatever, you know, mechanical stress is being incurred by the type of climbing that they do, that individual person gravitates towards, you're going to get an overuse injury or you're going to have too much volume in one particular style of movement.
00:56:12:23 - 00:56:54:00
Speaker 4
And and just some joint stress or muscle stress or what tendon stress, anything. So by having a structured approach, building volume and really utilizing the time to ensure quality as opposed to just saying, you know, go climb for 2 hours, five days a week, keep it easy and just go, you know, project, run some laps if you can instead say while you're at full, I want you to focus on doing this technique drill and I want you to find climbers that fit in this range.
00:56:54:02 - 00:57:16:23
Speaker 4
It's like if you were to prescribe, you know, any type of resistance training to anybody starting out, you wouldn't give them you wouldn't say, Hey, go try to lift £100. I know you can almost do it. I'm going to go try to lift £100.15 times right now. Maybe, maybe they'll be able to do it the next session, but probably not.
00:57:17:01 - 00:57:38:17
Speaker 4
You know, they're probably just going to get hurt trying to do it eventually. So instead, you say, I'd like for you to get your form down perfectly. I want you to really focus on form. Then I want you to operate in the 70% range and I don't want you to just do bench press. I want you to also do overhead press.
00:57:38:19 - 00:58:06:17
Speaker 4
And then tomorrow I don't want you working bench press where I don't want you doing anything chest or shoulder related. I want you to work your legs. I want you to do abdominal exercises, whatever it is. Switch up the stimulus while that's recovering. You know that they had a high quality session that was focused and was in the proper intensity range so that they can both benefit, be present and also adapt to it.
00:58:06:19 - 00:58:26:03
Speaker 4
So I think that beginners do succeed because, you know, they're they're learning new skills just by engaging in it. But the people that I work with in the beginning, I'm, I just I can see when I meet somebody early on in their climbing career and I see other people that are early on in their climbing career at the gym that I'm not working with.
00:58:26:05 - 00:58:50:19
Speaker 4
I know that the people that I work with excel faster because they have guidance and I can basically curate the perfect doses of the ideal inputs and and I ensure that they're not doing any junk mileage. So they're not wasting time and energy and they have higher frequency of higher quality training.
00:58:50:21 - 00:58:52:20
Speaker 2
Do you feel that.
00:58:52:22 - 00:58:57:01
Speaker 1
People are generally trying to heart consistently when they climb?
00:58:57:03 - 00:59:24:16
Speaker 4
I would say yes, that the majority the there's a much higher percentage than 50%, in my opinion, of the average person, how often they're in the gym and how hard they're trying. And then and then I'd say that there's possibly almost over 95% of people that are in the gym maybe not even trying is too hard too often, but just doing the same thing that has no focus.
00:59:24:18 - 00:59:33:05
Speaker 4
There's no focal point, there's no measurability, there is no gauge as to, you know.
00:59:33:07 - 00:59:33:21
Speaker 2
What.
00:59:33:21 - 00:59:56:19
Speaker 4
How hard am I trying and how much fatigue am accumulating and what is my goal for next session? How much stronger do I want to feel next session? Do I want to feel stronger next session? Am I going to be too tired in two days? In three? What's the accumulated fatigue from the last three sessions? I had no one's tracking because nobody has any measure ability from session in session.
00:59:56:21 - 00:59:59:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm in that 95 percentile.
00:59:59:20 - 01:00:07:11
Speaker 2
That's. Yeah, me too, bro. It's hard, man. Yeah. No, like something I've been trying.
01:00:07:11 - 01:00:12:00
Speaker 1
To do recently is like, is is definitely climb.
01:00:12:02 - 01:00:13:13
Speaker 2
Well below my.
01:00:13:13 - 01:00:35:11
Speaker 1
Limit. So, like the last year I spent training for, you know, a classic mountaineering objective. I was like ice and alpine climbing. Then that went into like six months of like, of a much more traditional aerobic kind of work. And so for the last this is my second week now. So I'm actually really getting back into climbing and trying to climb rock a whole bunch again.
01:00:35:13 - 01:00:57:16
Speaker 1
But I'm trying to get a lot more time in a more aerobic capacity on the wall of not just trying to crank hard all the time, or if I can increase my climbing volume to climb aerobically more. Do you think that that would be a really good benefit for a lot of climbers, like, you know, like in in endurance, you would do like base training, right?
01:00:57:18 - 01:01:20:04
Speaker 1
It's like you're aerobic base is like the foundation of everything you're doing. So you need to do a lot of low and slow intensity to build like a foundation. Do you find that in climbing that that kind of would parallel where you need to have like a foundation of a lot of easier climbing aerobic climbing to to I don't know, support yourself?
01:01:20:06 - 01:01:21:08
Speaker 1
Do you find that that SCALES.
01:01:21:11 - 01:01:52:05
Speaker 4
Yes, absolutely. I think in a technical sense and absolutely in a physiological adaptation sense, where you do have better, you know, buffering systems, better capillary density, mitochondrial density in all of your muscles to be able to just straight up recover faster and tolerate more stress and, you know, just be more resilient in general to to low level stress and be able to, you know, be able to put out more just do more work.
01:01:52:07 - 01:02:21:23
Speaker 4
But I think the major benefits and I think it applies more to people to, of course, type one muscle fiber engagement, like in more of a sport climbing sense or a tried climbing sense. But I think that just lower level time on rock is the easiest way to acquire and practice technique where you have everything that is very controllable.
01:02:22:01 - 01:02:48:13
Speaker 4
As long as that technique is focused on by whoever is, you know, engaging in the activity. I think that if you are someone who does not have facile command of your body and you need to understand how to coordinate on the rock and how to field movement on rock, then yes, doing a lot of easier, climbing will absolutely help.
01:02:48:15 - 01:03:16:07
Speaker 4
But then there also is the ideal location in the learning zone where if you do too much at the very base, the the returns start to diminish and it happens very quickly. It can happen in under a year. So if you do too easy of climbing too often, you basically have squeezed that lemon dry and now you need to make it a lot more intense to keep benefiting.
01:03:16:09 - 01:03:42:17
Speaker 4
So I think it scales upwards. You just have to understand when when it's time to stop doing 5/8, you know, like or stop asking you can't arc all year and expect to keep benefiting. I think it's appropriate for two months, maybe, maybe three. But no, I think I there are people that do a bit too much of it.
01:03:42:19 - 01:03:49:10
Speaker 4
I think they would benefit to know that there's more advanced drills that they could benefit faster from.
01:03:49:12 - 01:03:50:16
Speaker 2
Could you give me example.
01:03:50:16 - 01:04:03:19
Speaker 1
Of some like technique drills or just drills that you could think of off the top of your head? I know it's obviously in the podcast form, it's a lot to go on, but like, yeah, just any examples?
01:04:03:21 - 01:04:25:03
Speaker 4
Oh man, I've got kind of a whole Google doc, multiple pages of drills that I that I use for, for my programing. You mean something more in line with what you were like? What I just alluded to with the, the next logical step up from just moving or just like awareness, like a.
01:04:25:05 - 01:04:30:01
Speaker 2
Focus do both. Like if you were doing like, you know, well below your.
01:04:30:01 - 01:04:39:01
Speaker 1
Grade aerobic kind of climbing, you're focusing on that that building that like capacity, that endurance, maybe even you could be using it as recovery climbing.
01:04:39:03 - 01:04:40:11
Speaker 2
Let's say somebody has been doing that.
01:04:40:11 - 01:04:47:02
Speaker 1
They're running laps on an auto belay or they're doing something along the lines. You know.
01:04:47:04 - 01:04:47:19
Speaker 2
How could they.
01:04:47:19 - 01:04:55:07
Speaker 1
Be using that time as wisely as possible? Because we're talking about somebody who, you know, maybe you don't have a goal or you're just randomly climbing routes, whereas like.
01:04:55:13 - 01:04:56:14
Speaker 2
You could be.
01:04:56:14 - 01:05:03:05
Speaker 1
Focusing on footwork or something like what's an example of how you could utilize that time even better as a climber?
01:05:03:07 - 01:05:37:09
Speaker 4
Okay, so the best thing you can do is video yourself and then watch a video of either a better climber doing that climb or watch a video of somebody doing an outdoor sport climb or a very experienced, competitive climber climb down the wall, find some movements that they do that are very similar to the movements of the climb that you're doing or find a climb that is at the level of what you're doing, but better aligns with what you're watching the video and straight up repeat those moves in the way they're doing them.
01:05:37:11 - 01:06:04:04
Speaker 4
Also, ask yourself, what are my weaknesses? Like, Do I always mess up my foot switches? Okay, YouTube exists or coaches exist. Either go on YouTube and watch a video tutorial on how to do a proper foot switch and then force yourself while doing that same route you've been doing. Just do the next progression. So do the route that you're already having an easy time on.
01:06:04:10 - 01:06:50:04
Speaker 4
But now on every single foothold, switch your feet twice, switch left, which right? If there are those feet, become too easy. Now do that route again, but use the footholds on as many of the footholds as you can of the 512 that's on the same auto below. It's there are so many progression opportunities that people miss or I think just don't know that there are coaches out there that can easily provide these steps of progression for them that it's it's so, so easy to just ask somebody or to go online and say, you know, this technique, what what is the next step?
01:06:50:09 - 01:07:10:19
Speaker 4
Piping in on YouTube. You'll get ideas. Ask a coach, ask a better climber, or just think, you know, like, what am I struggling with? What do I need to do to get better at that is do it more often, Do it in your learning zone and then repeat it and focus on the things that result in better performance every time you do it.
01:07:10:21 - 01:07:15:07
Speaker 4
And make sure that you're doing it consistently every time you climb.
01:07:15:09 - 01:07:28:07
Speaker 1
Yeah, definitely makes sense. I think it's so easy to just get wrapped up and not have that kind of a structure and also not think of, you know, what are my weaknesses and just have a tendency to just do things that make you feel good while climbing.
01:07:28:09 - 01:07:29:01
Speaker 2
Which at some point.
01:07:29:01 - 01:07:40:13
Speaker 1
Is okay, you need to you want to feel good and you want to enjoy yourself. But if you're actually looking to improve, then of course you need to challenge yourself and stretch yourself more.
01:07:40:15 - 01:07:41:17
Speaker 2
Like, what do you think?
01:07:41:17 - 01:07:52:09
Speaker 1
Like the average climber is like, like, like over, like, what are we overemphasizing in the climbing community? Like, you know, if somebody's like, a cool climber, they're starting out, they're looking together.
01:07:52:11 - 01:07:53:13
Speaker 2
So I you say core.
01:07:53:16 - 01:07:58:07
Speaker 4
Core. Okay, ABS.
01:07:58:09 - 01:07:59:06
Speaker 2
That's my that's.
01:07:59:06 - 01:08:24:23
Speaker 4
My. Oh, my God. It's. I'm sorry. I just like it is my biggest point of contention with would the entire coaching industry and climbers as a whole is this need this need for abdominal strength? It doesn't help you climb. It doesn't improve climbing performance, in my opinion, at all.
01:08:25:01 - 01:08:25:15
Speaker 2
I mean.
01:08:25:17 - 01:08:51:12
Speaker 4
If you if you can do 30 leg lifts or you can hold a hollow body position for 30 seconds, you're good. Move on. Do something else. I mean, the only you need stronger abs. They don't. It does not help you keep your feet on the wall at all. Not even a little bit. The only time that having stronger abs is when your feet do cut.
01:08:51:14 - 01:09:11:13
Speaker 4
And then you need to put them back on the wall. If you're in an overhang or shoot them out to a foot far away or if you're just actively flagging your foot into the wall, that that's the only time that you would actually use your your abs in climbing. Other than that, it's your ankles, your ankles and your hamstring and your glutes.
01:09:11:15 - 01:09:12:07
Speaker 2
Would you would you.
01:09:12:07 - 01:09:26:20
Speaker 3
Argue that a strong core, at least an activated core, I guess you're you're alluding to that allows the flow of of momentum from bottom to top like if you have like a lower like no, it's all.
01:09:26:20 - 01:09:28:21
Speaker 4
Through the back. Not at all. Yeah.
01:09:28:23 - 01:09:38:17
Speaker 2
Mm hmm. I think at least what I'm getting out of that is a little bit. I think what I'm getting out of that, though, is like. Like if you are a bunch.
01:09:38:19 - 01:09:42:11
Speaker 1
You know, like, let's say you're doing like, five, 11 sport in the gym or something, you.
01:09:42:11 - 01:09:43:13
Speaker 2
Most likely already.
01:09:43:13 - 01:09:46:20
Speaker 1
Have a strong core just simply from doing that to be able to.
01:09:46:20 - 01:09:48:12
Speaker 2
Do that. So my thought.
01:09:48:12 - 01:10:00:17
Speaker 1
Process, or at least the way I'm interpreting this, is like after you can do three leg lifts, you're not going to benefit by working on your lever. Five days a week, you know, and being able to lever something is what you're saying. It's like after.
01:10:00:17 - 01:10:01:21
Speaker 2
Like obviously you need a.
01:10:01:21 - 01:10:04:09
Speaker 1
Core, you need to have a foundation, you need a bit of core.
01:10:04:09 - 01:10:05:05
Speaker 2
Tension.
01:10:05:07 - 01:10:18:01
Speaker 1
But at a certain point, you're not just going to continue to like yield results in your climbing. If you just keep overemphasizing this and core blasting yourself to death at the end of every single workout or something, know, is is that kind of the gist.
01:10:18:01 - 01:10:19:08
Speaker 2
Of what you're getting as a.
01:10:19:10 - 01:10:35:22
Speaker 4
Yes. I see. It's the biggest time and calorie and energy waster in climbing right now. Absolutely. Because I know 14 climbers that maxed out at 30 leg lifts like Max. I'm talking max out and their feet never cut.
01:10:36:00 - 01:10:37:05
Speaker 2
30 is is.
01:10:37:05 - 01:10:37:14
Speaker 1
A lot.
01:10:37:15 - 01:10:50:09
Speaker 2
Depending on how good your form is. You know it's pretty good I think. I don't know how can you do 30 like this? Probably not even want to see the video go.
01:10:50:11 - 01:10:54:11
Speaker 3
I'd say my abs are not good shape right now.
01:10:54:13 - 01:10:59:06
Speaker 2
All good. You don't need them. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I'm.
01:10:59:09 - 01:11:04:21
Speaker 3
Still a climber in, like, at my best, you know? Still, I'm fine technique all the way, man.
01:11:04:23 - 01:11:28:01
Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean, is if you guys do a glute bridge and put your toe on a on a bench in front of you and pull your body up and then your, your body's off the ground backs off the ground, and then you put your other leg under the bench and push the foot that's on top down like you're rooting into a foot.
01:11:28:01 - 01:11:53:15
Speaker 4
Hold on an overhang. You're not in your abs, you're not engaged at all. You're going to feel exactly like you're trying to keep your foot on it. But people really don't understand is that your your leg is just an arm at the bottom of your body? You know, it's it's it's our our feet, our hands. Right. Like your your foot is just a hand stuck in a climbing shoe.
01:11:53:16 - 01:12:15:19
Speaker 4
These, these toes would grab on to everything and dig in right, just like your hand would grab into an end. Cut hold. But because it's stuck in this elongated, stretched out position, you can only flex down the ankle, which is just like what we do on slippers. We flex down on the wrist. And when we flex down on the wrist, what engages?
01:12:15:19 - 01:12:37:17
Speaker 4
It's our forearms like that's that's your calf. So if you're not flexing down your ankle as hard as you can, you have no grip on the slope. Or guess what? If you have no grip on the slope or you can't pull on it, you're barely holding something. You cannot pull anywhere near your maximum strength. Now I go to use my bicep to actually pull on this thing or my shoulder.
01:12:37:19 - 01:13:08:13
Speaker 4
And if I have no pull from my ankle, I'm not going to be able to pull on that. And that's my hamstring at the bottom of my leg. It's this in the same spot as my bicep. It works the same way to curl it in. And then my shoulder, the back of my shoulder is my glute. So you can't engage every the bigger muscles that can root you through feet if you're not engaging at that the ankle and engaging honestly in the toes, which is the fingertips that are still pushing into when we're on a sloper.
01:13:08:15 - 01:13:24:21
Speaker 4
So I honestly think arming people with that knowledge is ten times more effective than telling to go do any form of training. In my core, I'm, you know, I'm cliche, everyone calls it core. It's abs.
01:13:24:23 - 01:13:26:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:13:26:09 - 01:13:38:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, that makes sense. I like the I like the analogy of the feet or hands. I think that you Mr. you know, missed that a little bit sometimes.
01:13:38:12 - 01:13:43:11
Speaker 4
Legs pull those like arms.
01:13:43:13 - 01:13:45:06
Speaker 3
Maxi Cool.
01:13:45:08 - 01:13:45:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:13:46:00 - 01:13:49:13
Speaker 1
Did were you going to say to move on to route setting.
01:13:49:15 - 01:13:52:06
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah, sure Let's, let's do it a bit.
01:13:52:06 - 01:14:01:20
Speaker 1
I Am pretty curious here like, like how, how do you become a road setter I guess. And yeah, it's, it's really interesting like.
01:14:01:22 - 01:14:05:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't know. Start with that.
01:14:05:17 - 01:14:37:06
Speaker 4
How do you become a route setter? Man? It is. It seems like it's getting harder and harder for people to become route setters because in order to set routes you have to be pretty at it, you know, in order to get that job or to even be given a chance. And the way that you get good at it is by creating routes you know, you're I've told a lot of people that want to get better at route setting or want to get into route setting that the way I did it was I mean, I got lucky.
01:14:37:06 - 01:14:54:01
Speaker 4
I had a home wall, so I would set all the time, but before I had the home wall, I would make up my own boulders constantly. I'm talking like when I would be done projecting, I would make up boulders for like 2 hours for myself and for other team members. I just loved made ups and I still do.
01:14:54:03 - 01:15:15:16
Speaker 4
I do them every single session and when you're creating a made up boulder you're trying to force, you don't know it, but you're trying to force movement and you're trying to figure out what will be the next move that works. But is that my limit? And that is interesting and utilizes that cool feature right there, and I want to use that crimp right there too.
01:15:15:16 - 01:15:31:17
Speaker 4
And I want to finish there. Okay. Well, if I want to make it interesting and difficult when I share it with a friend and they can't break it, I need to force them to do it the way that I did it. So our man, I can't add that foot because then they'll just put their foot over there and match.
01:15:31:19 - 01:15:58:10
Speaker 4
Okay. Ooh. Instead of that hand, I'll choose the other jug down low so that you have to hand heel, match and you start understanding how to force movement. And you also actually start to develop the creative process because you're, you do have something that already exists, but you're generating a new climb from scratch, utilizing honestly, limited resources compared to what the starters have, they have limited.
01:15:58:12 - 01:16:26:23
Speaker 4
So if you can get good at that and then when you're given all of the tools, it becomes it's easier. It's much easier to have the drill in your hand. And, you know, I know some people get a little bit they they see this blank canvas and they don't know what idea to start with. The easiest thing is put pick a cool hold and put it on the wall somewhere and then and let that start to tell you what it wants to do.
01:16:27:01 - 01:16:43:03
Speaker 4
You know, when you put a hold in a certain orientation, just by looking at that whole you should have some ideas. Where's the usable surface? Where can you step on it? Okay, where's that? Where's the next move from there? Put a foot somewhere. Now where's that? Push your body. Where do you want to go? Okay, It's moving me.
01:16:43:03 - 01:17:05:00
Speaker 4
That foot's to the left, so it's going to push me. Right. I've got this jug. Hold on as my start. Hold. If I move right now, I have an option. I'm holding a jug with my left hand. I could throw a heel up there. I could bring a high foot or I could add a foot anywhere else. And based on the direction of that next hand, what would feel natural and flowy.
01:17:05:00 - 01:17:17:22
Speaker 4
If that's what I'm going for from that start movement, where does my body naturally want to go and step? And where do I want? It is all linked. And is link a bowl?
01:17:18:00 - 01:17:31:10
Speaker 3
Mm hmm. Do you have you ever walked up to a climb and already had every piece in place in your mind? Or do you always build it from one hold and then move by? Move. You complete the climb.
01:17:31:11 - 01:17:52:06
Speaker 4
Oh, I did it. So it's so different for me every single time I create a boulder. Sometimes I it's weird. I can I can look at a wall angle and then look at a hold and get really excited and know exactly what I want to do. Or I can have a move in my head that comes out of nowhere.
01:17:52:08 - 01:18:19:02
Speaker 4
I maybe I saw an Instagram boulder before that had it, or I have no idea where these ideas come from sometimes, and I just have this overwhelming urge to create this type of move. But I never, ever will have the boulder in my head and then have it come out exactly that on the wall. I will always start with something and it will always morph into something else that I think is an even more fulfilling idea.
01:18:19:04 - 01:18:22:18
Speaker 2
Nice. I'm wondering, do you feel like being a.
01:18:22:18 - 01:18:25:10
Speaker 1
Route setter has made you a better climber?
01:18:25:12 - 01:18:27:11
Speaker 4
Absolutely.
01:18:27:13 - 01:18:30:05
Speaker 2
So. But how does like.
01:18:30:07 - 01:18:33:04
Speaker 1
How how physical is it? Like, I'm assuming.
01:18:33:04 - 01:18:33:22
Speaker 2
Do you use it?
01:18:33:22 - 01:18:38:12
Speaker 1
Do you consider route setting as like base training for your climbing?
01:18:38:14 - 01:19:00:08
Speaker 4
I don't do it anymore because it destroys me. I mean, I, I will still do it from time to time. But if I said a couple of boulders I just get it's that on top of my training, it's after so many years of doing it, it just yeah, it obliterates me. I get so excited and I do lot of it at a time.
01:19:00:12 - 01:19:21:00
Speaker 4
I'm sure if I limited my dosing of how many boulders I would set or like how many screw on holds I would pick because I love screw ons and I just will send like 80 screws into the wall with a single boulder. And I'm like, Oh my God, my shoulder is killing me. I Just move that one hold like eight times.
01:19:21:00 - 01:19:25:23
Speaker 4
That's like, Oh yeah, that's an extra 20 schools I did not need to make.
01:19:26:01 - 01:19:59:10
Speaker 3
But are you, are you? Because I've done a bit of room setting myself, obviously, like very low echelon, you know, at random local climbing gyms. But I love the process and I think really cool. The biggest thing for me that I always thought of as like having respect for people and maybe this is misplaced, but people that can set a route to a certain grade without climbing it at all, like just knowing, like putting, you know, putting the things and looking at it, understanding the movement without actually having to climb it.
01:19:59:16 - 01:20:20:14
Speaker 3
I've always been, you know, I'm not advanced, so I would always have to climb the route, move, I move, and then like, understand where it is by actually climbing it myself, I guess, like do you climb your routes yourself while you're building them? Is it grade dependent like, or are you always just like knowing without having to actually climb it?
01:20:20:16 - 01:20:48:19
Speaker 4
So I can I used to at my old gym, I would set like 14 boulder problems myself in like a six hour period. And then I would run after it just to make sure everything was at the grade I wanted. And there would be some days where I would not need to change a single hold. And those were very, very cool.
01:20:48:21 - 01:21:16:02
Speaker 4
They were rare, but usually it would only be if I did for on and I wanted to change or two things. The thing is, when I when I set boulders, I take my time and I really, as I'm putting the holds on the wall, I'm visualizing very deeply so that I don't have to go back and forth, run and make big changes, you know, for running is very tiring and it takes a lot of time.
01:21:16:04 - 01:21:16:19
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:21:16:21 - 01:21:19:03
Speaker 3
Especially super hard grades at your limit.
01:21:19:05 - 01:21:40:09
Speaker 4
Right? Right. So yeah, even still, like when I, when I will set a boulder, I, you can, you can understand, you know when you put it on the wall your hold your hands on the other hold I've done, I've grabbed that type of hold. How many times on this angle, how many times I know the accumulated fatigue you're going to have and the other moves that I've set.
01:21:40:11 - 01:21:57:17
Speaker 4
I know the footholds, like I know the body position. I. I know this move goes and I know it goes at around this grade. Then when I run, if it's a little bit too hard, can make the foothold a little bit bigger, make the hand a little bit bigger. But it's again, it's it is rare, but that comes with experience.
01:21:57:19 - 01:21:58:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:21:58:17 - 01:22:06:04
Speaker 3
Can you set routes that are harder than your ability and are there any ethics behind doing so?
01:22:06:06 - 01:22:07:23
Speaker 4
No, no, it's pretty easy.
01:22:07:23 - 01:22:09:11
Speaker 3
Just just the skill set.
01:22:09:15 - 01:22:12:08
Speaker 4
Just make it hard.
01:22:12:10 - 01:22:32:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, I guess like to be able to set a route that's above your ability, I guess is, is a testament to understanding movement so deeply where you know your own physical limit, but you understand the movement that you can't do. Is that correct?
01:22:32:04 - 01:23:06:02
Speaker 4
Yes. You know, it's funny, I, I think that people that don't that aren't setters I have not set many hard boulders. I think that setting above your limit is this crazy, hard, impressive task. It is so much easier than you think it is. Like all you have to do is set something that is at your limit, but make the holds a little bit worse or the moods a little further, or they'll then make things just a tiny bit harder.
01:23:06:04 - 01:23:25:17
Speaker 4
And if you want to make it even harder, make it even harder. It like. But but there does get to a point. You I've been to many gyms where people set above their grade and yes, it's above their grade, but it's above everyone's grade. Some people will set something that they'll call like v 11 when they're av9 climber.
01:23:25:20 - 01:23:43:23
Speaker 4
And that thing is like V 14 or 15. It's it's it is harder, I think, for some people to understand where because something can go from very hard to insanely hard very quickly. Yeah. And like that's my experience.
01:23:44:02 - 01:23:52:15
Speaker 1
Of an inch over a crimp an inch away or just slightly sloped more or something in it. Yeah it goes from whatever grade to something exponentially harder.
01:23:52:17 - 01:23:53:15
Speaker 4
Right.
01:23:53:17 - 01:24:02:01
Speaker 3
Interesting. It's fascinating. Is there a difference between I mean, do you do any lead climbing setting or are you strictly bouldering.
01:24:02:03 - 01:24:18:18
Speaker 4
Yeah, I bouldering is just so much easier for me to to set forward and I'm not on the route setting team. I just set at the factory or, or which is the training center at our gym when I do set. So yeah, it's only bothers me.
01:24:18:20 - 01:24:34:02
Speaker 3
It sounds like the, the process of sport bolting is just like insanely time consuming with all the, the lifts and all the hauling and everything. And then you've got to piece it all together and it's like all these sequential moves. It's pretty impressive.
01:24:34:04 - 01:24:47:09
Speaker 4
Yeah, I miss it. I used to set ropes a lot, but I just. Yeah, getting up in the boom is fun and setting tiny little routes is awesome. Just a bunch of boulders stacked on top of each other.
01:24:47:11 - 01:25:05:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, 100%. Do you have any favorite moves? Any favorite movements? Like, I know Slab you said, but like in bouldering specifically, is there a specific movement that you kind of lean towards or enjoy the most or like to incorporate into a problem?
01:25:05:02 - 01:25:12:08
Speaker 4
Me personally, like, yeah, like that. I like to climb on or that I like to set.
01:25:12:10 - 01:25:18:04
Speaker 3
I mean, I guess they could be tandem, but they could not. I'm, I'm open to both responses.
01:25:18:06 - 01:25:27:22
Speaker 4
I mean, that is such a hard question. Wow.
01:25:28:00 - 01:25:43:10
Speaker 3
I don't think you have a signature like, oh, this guy, this, this is Charlie's fucking route, you know, because I've, I've gone I've gone to the gyms before, and, you know, they always put their outsider name on the bottom and, like, I would climb the out and be like, it's that. It's that fucking Alex guy. I know it, you know?
01:25:43:11 - 01:25:53:11
Speaker 3
I know it is. And sure enough, if you get to the bottom, you're like, Yeah, it's fucking Alex. Like, do you have a signature that people can recognize your style or anything like that now, or do you just like, I guess you're a chameleon.
01:25:53:11 - 01:26:08:15
Speaker 4
I think that the reason that I don't is because I'm, I'm just like, oddly obsessed with rock climbing. Like, I watch videos all day every day, even when I don't have time. And I have never not done that.
01:26:08:17 - 01:26:10:16
Speaker 3
And are you watching the video right now?
01:26:10:18 - 01:26:13:09
Speaker 4
No. I know I had to turn the.
01:26:13:09 - 01:26:14:20
Speaker 2
Photo.
01:26:14:22 - 01:26:32:19
Speaker 4
So I think that my brain is just constantly inundated with new ideas and I'm always trying to make it different. I really don't even have like, moves that I'm like, Oh man, if I don't have time, this one's just a safe bet. I know how this one goes. I'm just going to throw this up. I've never done that.
01:26:32:21 - 01:26:59:03
Speaker 4
So no, I really don't have a favorite and there's no signature I maybe different forms of Dinos because that's I love Dinos or I did. But no, I don't even set them that often. That's the thing. I'm my my signature. When people know that it's mine is when there are. It's very tricky and you have to do it that way.
01:26:59:05 - 01:27:13:19
Speaker 4
I love and I love being good at forcing some people like I know you think you want to do, but if you look closely, I there's a clue, there's a tail. It's this way or there's no way.
01:27:13:21 - 01:27:14:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:27:14:22 - 01:27:15:23
Speaker 3
That's cool. I like that.
01:27:15:23 - 01:27:18:20
Speaker 4
Yeah. The likes of speed footwork.
01:27:18:20 - 01:27:22:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, dude, 100%. Do not want to wrap things up.
01:27:22:15 - 01:27:23:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah, well, we'll do the.
01:27:23:17 - 01:27:41:05
Speaker 1
Q&A for sure, but yeah, I'm working on my footwork so hard right now. It's really been the defining factor for me. Like starting to climb harder and just realize things you think are not footholds are footholds, but yeah, I don't know. It's it's definitely making a big difference in my climbing.
01:27:41:07 - 01:27:44:12
Speaker 3
We need, we a team coaching day with Charlie.
01:27:44:12 - 01:27:49:12
Speaker 2
Yeah we do we set be awesome when I.
01:27:49:18 - 01:27:53:11
Speaker 3
Point out all of our flaws you know just get us straight up.
01:27:53:13 - 01:28:06:15
Speaker 2
You can film, you can film a training video on how not to be or climber to be like Max, I'm down.
01:28:06:17 - 01:28:08:14
Speaker 3
Max Prescription core workout.
01:28:08:14 - 01:28:11:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. Yeah. I it with a.
01:28:11:14 - 01:28:14:02
Speaker 4
Real 6 minutes of abs.
01:28:14:04 - 01:28:21:18
Speaker 2
Nonstop. I did six a thousand sit ups. Yeah. So you got a couple of questions here.
01:28:21:18 - 01:28:24:10
Speaker 1
That was actually from Instagram.
01:28:24:12 - 01:28:34:16
Speaker 2
And so which one was it here. Yeah. Like one of them was what's the best way to break plateaus? I think this was from Colby as well.
01:28:34:16 - 01:28:37:15
Speaker 1
So he's a really he's a strong climber, I think like 13.
01:28:37:15 - 01:28:39:06
Speaker 3
A strong climber something.
01:28:39:06 - 01:28:39:17
Speaker 2
Like that.
01:28:39:17 - 01:28:39:22
Speaker 1
So.
01:28:39:22 - 01:28:42:15
Speaker 3
13 B 13 C Yeah.
01:28:42:16 - 01:28:43:08
Speaker 2
So someone in.
01:28:43:08 - 01:28:53:20
Speaker 1
That context or it doesn't have to be that hard, but in general, someone who's maybe been training a long time and they're, they're pretty good climber, how are they going to break their plateaus?
01:28:53:21 - 01:29:01:19
Speaker 4
Hmm. Well, I guess the question is, why are you at a plateau? Why do people get to plateaus?
01:29:01:21 - 01:29:02:19
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:29:02:21 - 01:29:03:16
Speaker 4
Why?
01:29:03:18 - 01:29:07:07
Speaker 2
Like, yeah, I mean, it can be your genetic limit in some capacity.
01:29:07:07 - 01:29:16:18
Speaker 1
You could be lacking in some kind of strength, some kind of technique, footwork. So I guess you'd have to assess your your weakness or what's going on.
01:29:16:18 - 01:29:20:02
Speaker 4
And then genetic limits don't exist.
01:29:20:04 - 01:29:25:09
Speaker 2
They don't exist. Oh, you've never seen me climb? No, man. No.
01:29:25:11 - 01:29:26:14
Speaker 4
I don't. I don't.
01:29:26:14 - 01:29:27:20
Speaker 2
Know.
01:29:27:22 - 01:29:31:12
Speaker 4
I have such a firm believer that they don't exist.
01:29:31:14 - 01:29:33:17
Speaker 2
I would push on the genetic limit thing in the.
01:29:33:17 - 01:29:35:19
Speaker 1
Context of like, okay, like, I don't.
01:29:35:19 - 01:29:36:13
Speaker 2
Think it is.
01:29:36:13 - 01:29:37:19
Speaker 1
Physically possible.
01:29:37:19 - 01:29:38:10
Speaker 2
For me to.
01:29:38:13 - 01:29:44:06
Speaker 1
Ever, like, you redo my life a million times, to ever climb silence like my physically could not.
01:29:44:06 - 01:29:47:06
Speaker 2
Do it. But the reason I am not.
01:29:47:06 - 01:29:52:16
Speaker 1
Climbing way harder than I could be climbing right now is not because of genetics.
01:29:52:17 - 01:29:53:05
Speaker 2
You what I.
01:29:53:05 - 01:30:01:17
Speaker 1
Mean, it's like it's. It's my footwork, it's my technique, it's my dedication. It's not having the right mentorship. There's a lot of things. So I would I would say.
01:30:01:17 - 01:30:02:02
Speaker 2
That for.
01:30:02:02 - 01:30:07:13
Speaker 1
Most people genetically, it's probably not the reason they're not climbing the next grade. But like there is a.
01:30:07:13 - 01:30:09:23
Speaker 2
Limit, you know, I'll get you an overhanging like.
01:30:10:00 - 01:30:11:12
Speaker 1
Slab of drywall and we'll.
01:30:11:12 - 01:30:18:02
Speaker 2
See. We'll see, you know, like who's going up it. But, but yeah, no, I think that yeah.
01:30:18:04 - 01:30:37:11
Speaker 4
I'll answer the question for sure. For me, what I was trying to say was the reason that people get to plateaus is because you're doing things that are not, you know, you're doing the same things or you're doing the wrong things and you need to change. The best way to get past the plateau is to change the inputs.
01:30:37:13 - 01:31:01:16
Speaker 4
Clearly, what you're doing is not moving up the dial. So you need to look at the things that you you need to, you know, push the level up of in order to get to the next level. And you need to try and you need to just give new stimulus to the body and you need to create a plan and say, I will take my time and I will get better at these 1 to 3 metrics or.
01:31:01:16 - 01:31:23:13
Speaker 4
I will focus on these techniques and improve on just these in a new way that I have not tried before. And that's all it is. You know, it's it's the same as like when you reach like if you if you're doing for a couple of months, you know, like fives, I just like always bring it back to resistance training because it's very digestible for people like you.
01:31:23:13 - 01:31:57:01
Speaker 4
If you're doing five sets of curls with £25, ten reps each, and you've been doing that for three months and you started, you've been feeling stronger and stronger and stronger, but now you're not anymore. And why is that? Because the body adapted. It now needs a different stimulus, more intense stimulus to evoke further adaptation. If you're at a plateau, you're either too much of something, you're dosing off your volumes off, your focus is off, something's off.
01:31:57:01 - 01:31:59:02
Speaker 4
You need to change.
01:31:59:04 - 01:32:00:18
Speaker 3
That to answer like that.
01:32:00:23 - 01:32:06:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, no, that was great. Next, when we got here, our weighted hang word.
01:32:06:16 - 01:32:12:08
Speaker 1
Repeaters, the best way to get rid of mild finger pain so we use.
01:32:12:10 - 01:32:41:08
Speaker 4
That is I would need to know a lot more about the mild finger pain. Yes, Natalie, not the weighted repeaters is not the way to get rid of pain. It is a strength training protocol. Typically strength training protocols are not prescribed for pain in a rehabilitative li. It is a form of strength training. Maybe I am also not.
01:32:41:10 - 01:33:04:22
Speaker 4
You know, I'm not a doctor, but if you are experiencing mild finger pain, the odds are that you have some inflammation or you have some structural damage or you have some issue in the fingers somewhere. Again, this is very vague, but you probably should not stress it any more with added weight to the fingers.
01:33:05:00 - 01:33:08:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Pair.
01:33:08:02 - 01:33:22:02
Speaker 3
Next one we got is what devices or training accessories could be brought to work or training daily for training Daily training daily at your work. That's part of that.
01:33:22:04 - 01:33:23:14
Speaker 2
So it's asking.
01:33:23:16 - 01:33:26:05
Speaker 4
Training at work. Okay.
01:33:26:10 - 01:33:28:00
Speaker 3
It depends on your work, right?
01:33:28:04 - 01:33:30:18
Speaker 4
Yeah, it does.
01:33:30:20 - 01:33:34:01
Speaker 3
It's a little mini fingerboard, so you just turn your back.
01:33:34:03 - 01:33:40:06
Speaker 2
Drilling a fingerboard into the lunchroom, your boss comes in, you're like, what? Right.
01:33:40:08 - 01:34:09:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. I mean, if you if you do actually, like, I don't know what again, another kind of open ended question. But if you I'm just thinking for the average person like going to a 9 to 5, being stuck at work and having to bring if they wanted to bring something into the office, I would say that honestly, bringing in like a training block, like a portable hanging board would be a really would probably be my number one pick if.
01:34:09:17 - 01:34:30:08
Speaker 4
You're talking about climbing performance. I mean, that would be the most like climbing if you get on a fingerboard and, you know, just do some loading during the day. I mean, again, there's like a billion different protocols. You could do 4 billion different types of gold. So not going to get that detailed. But yeah, I think I think it fingerboard.
01:34:30:10 - 01:34:35:18
Speaker 2
Cool this next one how to get stronger but not.
01:34:35:18 - 01:34:38:10
Speaker 1
Bigger. I feel like I resonate with.
01:34:38:10 - 01:34:40:10
Speaker 2
This a lot. If I even look.
01:34:40:10 - 01:34:46:16
Speaker 1
At weights I like gain muscle mass and size. So that's a really interesting one, you know.
01:34:46:16 - 01:35:17:13
Speaker 4
Definitely so if you do want to really if you're, you know, when you gain weight or size from lifting, that's because you're building more muscle. And muscle is going to be built by providing the body with protein and other, you know, glycogen also will be stored in the muscle that's working and that's then carbs and then adding intramuscular fat to muscle that's being worked also comes in the form of fat intake.
01:35:17:13 - 01:36:02:12
Speaker 4
So it's really if you're eating in excess of what your body needs to have a net gain and simply recover the muscle back to what it was or just slightly bit denser, you're going to put on weight and you're going to put on mass also if you're working in the hypertrophy zone. So if you're doing like anywhere between like eight and 12, 14 reps that something, then you will be stimulating the muscle to have a little bit more growth in size rather than in a lower range, maybe from like anywhere between 5 to 8 in in the max strength zone might be a better bet.
01:36:02:14 - 01:36:05:04
Speaker 4
But ultimately it's how much you're eating.
01:36:05:06 - 01:36:06:05
Speaker 2
You think is the biggest.
01:36:06:06 - 01:36:09:12
Speaker 1
Largest byproduct is nutrition essentially. Yeah.
01:36:09:14 - 01:36:27:14
Speaker 4
Yes. Yeah it's it's more so than the actual range because if you were working in a hypertrophy zone but you were not eating in excess, your muscle may grow, but much, much, much, much slower than if you were working out in any range and then eating a lot. Yeah.
01:36:27:16 - 01:36:42:18
Speaker 3
Okay. Second to last one here. How to calm down or boost? I think they're probably meaning like encourage or to lift up a nervous climber who is about to compete.
01:36:42:20 - 01:37:11:13
Speaker 4
They're nervous about competing. Well, first, it's really important to understand what they're nervous about and then you need them to really focus in on all of their past successes. The reason that somebody is ever nervous about an event is because they care about it. And if they're nervous about something, you know, real easy. Before I even say this, how would you be nervous about climbing of these zero?
01:37:11:15 - 01:37:12:10
Speaker 3
No.
01:37:12:11 - 01:37:16:23
Speaker 4
Hey, would you be nervous about climbing if these seven. Yes.
01:37:17:04 - 01:37:21:13
Speaker 3
More laughs before. But yes, it'd be okay.
01:37:21:15 - 01:37:33:23
Speaker 4
And that's because you know that your the skill set demanded for the V seven is higher than the V zero. What now? What grade you typically boulder in the gym.
01:37:34:01 - 01:37:39:23
Speaker 3
I'd say I maxed out at like V five if I'm having a really good day maybe vs x.
01:37:40:01 - 01:38:08:19
Speaker 4
Okay. So then you know that for the competition or for this v seven that the skill set needed is actually higher than the skill set that you possess. So the demands placed on you will actually be higher than what you can tolerate. So usually climbers that are going into competition, if they're nervous, they feel as if the demands placed them, are going to be higher than what they actually possess and have the capability to perform.
01:38:08:21 - 01:38:30:15
Speaker 4
So the best thing that the mind can do is instead of focusing on what I cannot do and what I might not be able to do, it's what I had been successful in the past. In doing so, people usually have past failures in competition or times when they go up against something that's difficult for them and they have trauma from the times that they've failed so thoroughly.
01:38:30:15 - 01:39:02:05
Speaker 4
Going over and reviewing successes with an athlete or a competitor and coming up with all the times that they've ever gone up against something that's difficult or was even harder than what they could do, like a project and remembering how many times you've succeeded and thinking about all of those past successes, then in the moment when they get out there, they have that ability to draw back on those successes and put themself back in that moment and replicate those same sense sensations and develop a higher level of confidence because.
01:39:02:05 - 01:39:09:02
Speaker 4
They know I've been here before and I have been successful in times like this.
01:39:09:04 - 01:39:24:16
Speaker 3
I liked it a lot. I'm Yeah, no, that's a good one. I want use that for myself. I think that not only just in a performance anxiety, but just risk analysis, You know, I got in an accident, broke both my ankles. They've Max here and like I've been dealing with a lot of stress and nervousness on the wall.
01:39:24:18 - 01:39:47:07
Speaker 3
And I think that it's because I'm focusing on the one instance where I fell and broke both my ankles and that's the main focus of my fear is like, oh, what if this happens again? Or, you know, instead of focusing on the 99.9% of the time where I was fine, ten years. So I think that's a good reshift of paradigm that I need to incorporate into my life.
01:39:47:07 - 01:39:48:07
Speaker 3
So thanks for that.
01:39:48:09 - 01:40:10:05
Speaker 4
And yeah, I mean, that's how trauma works, right? It's like in there's small forms of trauma. It's like when you're on Instagram and you post something, say like you get 100 likes, a thousand lights and one person comments on your video like that would be three in my gym, bro, you don't care about 4000 likes. All you're thinking about is that one negative comment.
01:40:10:07 - 01:40:38:12
Speaker 4
It's like if you've competed a million times and you win all the time and then that one competition you lose, that will take you. How long might that take you to recover from that one loss? One loss. Sometimes it's different for some people. One person might be able to have that loss the next competition when the next one and they're over it, another person might need 50 more wins to get over that loss.
01:40:38:14 - 01:40:45:17
Speaker 4
That's why you should bank all of your successes, write them all down and log them. So helpful for competitors.
01:40:45:19 - 01:40:51:14
Speaker 2
I know. I think it's a perfect place to end it. Man ends on a nice positive note.
01:40:51:14 - 01:40:52:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's about like, you.
01:40:52:16 - 01:41:07:05
Speaker 2
Know, feeling good and reducing your nervousness and and writing down your successes. I can live with that. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, we could be on, man. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on the show and everything and chatting with us. I really appreciate that.
01:41:07:05 - 01:41:12:01
Speaker 1
And it's been a good time talking to you and stuff and learning from you. Thanks, man.
01:41:12:03 - 01:41:23:01
Speaker 4
Awesome. I'm. I'm really glad that I could help you guys out with this podcast and wanted to be here. This is an awesome conversation. Let me know the next time we can do it. Seriously?
01:41:23:03 - 01:41:24:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know I would.
01:41:24:07 - 01:41:34:01
Speaker 1
I would love to pick like a narrow, focused training topic and just, you know, have another episode in the future and just talk about that. I think that would be really, really cool thing to do.
01:41:34:03 - 01:41:37:05
Speaker 4
Yes. And next time in the morning. So I have some real energy.
01:41:37:07 - 01:41:39:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'm a real.
01:41:39:11 - 01:41:42:01
Speaker 4
Boy. Yeah. And you're dealing with like, my ending that.
01:41:42:04 - 01:41:42:20
Speaker 2
It's just.
01:41:42:20 - 01:41:44:11
Speaker 4
Fumes are left.
01:41:44:13 - 01:41:45:16
Speaker 2
No worries, man. Yeah.