As an amateur alpinist I love climbing ice, it is such a foreboding medium to climb on. Here one day and gone the next, it is ephemeral in nature. But for anyone who has swung an ice axe into a beautiful line of frozen water, you know the satisfaction that the sport of ice climbing can provide.
Our guest today is Philip Setter, Philip is an avid ice climber who has had the opportunity to climb with one of the best Ice climbers on the planet, Stas Baskin. Phil is the owner and operator of the Canadian boys Youtube Channel where he shares his stories and experiences in POV.
In our conversation we find out how Phil progressed from hiking and scrambling, to leading WI6+ ice on some of the most sought after objectives in the Canadian Rockies, a mecca of big committing and dangerous ice lines. Phil shares stories of his epic adventures as well as some of his darkest moments.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
The Canadian Boys Youtube Channel
Affinity Life Insurance
Sea of Vapors WI7+R
Not Alone
As an amateur alpinist I love climbing ice, it is such a foreboding medium to climb on. Here one day and gone the next, it is ephemeral in nature. But for anyone who has swung an ice axe into a beautiful line of frozen water, you know the satisfaction that the sport of ice climbing can provide.
Our guest today is Philip Setter, Philip is an avid ice climber who has had the opportunity to climb with one of the best Ice climbers on the planet, Stas Baskin. Phil is the owner and operator of the Canadian boys Youtube Channel where he shares his stories and experiences in POV.
In our conversation we find out how Phil progressed from hiking and scrambling, to leading WI6+ ice on some of the most sought after objectives in the Canadian Rockies, a mecca of big committing and dangerous ice lines. Phil shares stories of his epic adventures as well as some of his darkest moments.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
The Canadian Boys Youtube Channel
Affinity Life Insurance
Sea of Vapors WI7+R
Not Alone
00:00:00:15 - 00:00:28:08
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Climbing Journey podcast, where Colin I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides to recreational climbers like to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber you haven't already. Please subscribe rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast.
00:00:28:15 - 00:00:52:07
Speaker 1
I'm one of your co-hosts, Max. As an amateur Alpinist, I love climbing ice. It's such a foreboding medium to climb on here one day, gone the next. It's ephemeral by nature. But for anyone who has swung an ice ax into a beautiful line of frozen water, you know how satisfying the sport of ice climbing can be. Our guest today is Philip Seder.
00:00:52:18 - 00:01:13:03
Speaker 1
Philip is an avid ice climber who's had the opportunity to climb with one of the best ice climbers on the planet. Stats Baskin. Phil is the owner and operator of the Canadian boy's YouTube channel. I highly recommend you go give it a watch and listen. Check it out. He has lots of great footage and experiences that he shares their inner conversation.
00:01:13:03 - 00:01:36:03
Speaker 1
We find out how Phil progressed from hiking and scrambling to leading Y6 plus ice on some of the most sought after objectives in the Canadian Rockies, a mecca of big committing and dangerous ice lines. Phil shares stories of his epic adventures, as well as some of his darkest moments. So without further ado. Enjoy today's conversation with Bill. Set.
00:01:47:04 - 00:01:49:15
Speaker 1
It's happening where we're officially recording.
00:01:50:22 - 00:01:51:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. All right.
00:01:51:18 - 00:01:53:03
Speaker 3
A quick little quick little sip.
00:01:53:03 - 00:01:55:04
Speaker 2
Murlough. Yeah, exactly.
00:01:55:12 - 00:01:57:15
Speaker 1
Get the juices flowing. Get the tongue.
00:01:57:15 - 00:01:57:19
Speaker 2
Move.
00:01:58:01 - 00:01:59:03
Speaker 4
There'll be lots more sips.
00:01:59:20 - 00:02:01:14
Speaker 2
Lots more. I love it, but. Yeah.
00:02:01:15 - 00:02:06:07
Speaker 1
All right, everybody, we are here sitting down with Philip Settler as I correct pronunciation.
00:02:06:08 - 00:02:15:10
Speaker 2
The last name. No, not. What is it? Damn it. What is it? We're one minute in. I know already going. Well. It's.
00:02:15:13 - 00:02:17:01
Speaker 3
It's. It's Seder. There's Noel.
00:02:17:02 - 00:02:17:23
Speaker 1
All right, Well, then there.
00:02:18:01 - 00:02:18:13
Speaker 2
There's no.
00:02:19:05 - 00:02:24:03
Speaker 1
Seder. And, yeah, we're here. You know, we'll have a nice introduction for you and everything. So, you know.
00:02:24:15 - 00:02:25:18
Speaker 2
We were right on.
00:02:26:04 - 00:02:31:22
Speaker 1
Have those niceties in this, the beginning of this conversation, but we'll go. So, Phil, how are you doing, man?
00:02:31:22 - 00:02:48:22
Speaker 3
Dude, I love it. Yeah, good. Good. Hundred percent. Well, I shouldn't say on 2%. Good. I'm 97% good. I just got back from Portugal, like, three days ago. I was there for two weeks with with some family. And the day that we left, we. We got a flu. And so I'm. I got my ginger tea here, but I'm feeling better now.
00:02:48:22 - 00:02:59:15
Speaker 3
Jetlag. So there's 7 hours ahead in Portugal, which is I've never like I've never been to Europe before, anything like that. So that was like my first experience, like jetlag. It is real.
00:03:00:04 - 00:03:00:18
Speaker 1
It's not.
00:03:00:19 - 00:03:01:01
Speaker 2
You got.
00:03:02:22 - 00:03:06:02
Speaker 4
It. Was that your first time, like, international traveling? Like big time difference?
00:03:06:11 - 00:03:15:00
Speaker 3
It was 7 hours, yeah. So from Calgary to there, it's 7 hours. So right now it's what, seven here? So what is that, three plus it's 2:00 in the morning there.
00:03:15:20 - 00:03:19:01
Speaker 4
So yeah it's, yeah. The, the differences is strong.
00:03:19:10 - 00:03:37:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So you basically like we arrived and we arrived at like I think we was up all night a plane that was like a red eye over there. We arrived there like 11:00 in the morning, which was really 6:00 in the evening. And then I try to stay up is late too. I think I made it to like 8:00, which is really 5:00 in the morning.
00:03:37:03 - 00:03:45:21
Speaker 3
So I basically like stayed up all night and then stayed up all day and then again stayed up all night again till 5:00 in the morning, like trying to get the jetlag under control. So, yeah, it's interesting.
00:03:46:02 - 00:03:53:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's brutal. Wrecking the circadian rhythm and, you know, messing with your sleep cycle and stuff. Yeah, that definitely can throw you off a whole basin.
00:03:53:12 - 00:04:08:03
Speaker 3
It fucks with you. Yeah, it does. Like for probably four days I think like three or four days even now that I'm back. So what day is it today? Monday. So just like last night, I was starting to feel a little bit normal again. And then hopefully like today will be normal. But it's like three or four days.
00:04:08:03 - 00:04:12:14
Speaker 3
Your body's like, I don't know what the fuck you're trying to do, but it's like daytime. You've got to be up right now.
00:04:12:14 - 00:04:37:06
Speaker 1
I wonder how much in general people are sabotaging their circadian rhythm and good quality of sleep with looking at like screens and phones before going to bed. Oh, you know, because it because like, when you have the jetlag, you have this really massive stimulus and you notice it. Obviously it's so severe, but you know what is 5% every day, Maybe you don't really it maybe it's like some perceptual, but it's actually like hamstringing you.
00:04:37:13 - 00:04:52:05
Speaker 1
And I just think that's interesting of hamstring. Yeah you know you're hamstrung a bit around you know you don't even know it but yeah I think that's interesting that's something people probably I mean myself included I'm always on screens usually before going to bed and I'm like, Max, what are you doing? It's bad. Bad.
00:04:52:05 - 00:04:53:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:53:11 - 00:05:06:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know what I did, actually, to. To get away from that is I got a Garmin watch. And then with the watch there's like an alarm on it because that's what I would, that's like my excuses. I was like, oh well I need to take my cell phone to bed and then I would like sit on in bed.
00:05:06:14 - 00:05:19:23
Speaker 3
I'm like, Oh, that's my alarm. But then when I got the watch and I there's an alarm on it and it's just like a little like, like haptic feedback, like vibration on your wrist. And so all my alarms now an hour is so like 830, 9:00, I'll just like, put my phone away and like, I'm like, I'm done for the night, right?
00:05:19:23 - 00:05:26:23
Speaker 3
And then I'll go to bed. I won't have my phone anymore. So yeah, if you need like some type of emotional excuse to go out and like, spend money on, you know, gadget and more.
00:05:26:23 - 00:05:28:06
Speaker 2
Garmin watch. This is it.
00:05:30:14 - 00:05:34:14
Speaker 4
That's pretty cool. Actually, I had not heard of that. I think that's a great idea. Not to have your phone by your bed.
00:05:34:18 - 00:05:39:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. Listen, I'll take. I'll take any excuse to buy more.
00:05:39:14 - 00:05:40:11
Speaker 2
Right. This is like.
00:05:41:17 - 00:05:42:22
Speaker 1
The guise of health.
00:05:44:02 - 00:05:45:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. What do they.
00:05:45:03 - 00:05:51:05
Speaker 3
What do they say? They say every sale. What is it? It starts with emotion. And then you back it up with logic. So that's like, yeah, you're like, Oh.
00:05:51:05 - 00:05:52:07
Speaker 2
Garmin, they'd be sweet.
00:05:52:08 - 00:05:53:15
Speaker 3
And then you're like, logical. You're like.
00:05:53:23 - 00:05:57:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, and I could put my phone away. That's really.
00:05:57:03 - 00:06:03:17
Speaker 3
Smart. I get more sleep, X amount of sleep, and that's going to translate into better life and more money and put it on. I'm buying this like a watch now.
00:06:03:22 - 00:06:04:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:06:04:23 - 00:06:21:16
Speaker 1
I think that's definitely true though, with a lot of, a lot of trad gear even. You know, I was just climbing with Kyle down in Red Rocks and I was touching his totems and I was, Oh my God, like, wow, these are so amazing. Like, clearly one of them. And then like, what did I say? Kyle? Like, yeah, I'm inevitably going to end up climbing in the Krieg So need like triples and triples.
00:06:21:16 - 00:06:27:16
Speaker 1
So you could probably buy some totems. Anyway, I started logic ing it out so quickly how I need more gear. So yeah.
00:06:27:23 - 00:06:33:03
Speaker 4
Yeah, you already already logically like telling yourself how you were going to convince your girlfriend to get them. Yeah.
00:06:33:13 - 00:06:36:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Like, okay.
00:06:36:04 - 00:06:37:05
Speaker 4
I need these. I need.
00:06:37:05 - 00:06:41:03
Speaker 1
These. REI will just be listening to this and she'll be like, Oh my fucking God. Like, not more.
00:06:41:03 - 00:06:44:13
Speaker 2
Gear, but she's like, No, please stop. No. Are you guys.
00:06:44:14 - 00:06:46:13
Speaker 3
Are you guys bad with, with gear as well?
00:06:46:13 - 00:07:05:16
Speaker 1
And like, I live in a single basement suite and like, like here within arm's distance, there's, like, you know, I got, like, literally thousands of dollars of everything, you know, a gun and skis. Dude. It's like my entire place is just a gear closet. So that answers your question of help.
00:07:07:03 - 00:07:09:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's. It's an addiction.
00:07:09:02 - 00:07:16:10
Speaker 1
It sure is. It's a great addiction. It is. You know, Allows me to get some beautiful go to some beautiful places and do some beautiful things. So.
00:07:17:01 - 00:07:17:14
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:07:18:00 - 00:07:33:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. I basically like. Like where I am right now, it's two bedroom and the second bedroom is basically like there's a walk in closet and it's like filled from the ground to the top with gear. And then my partner, like, that was supposed to be like her workout room. And then I was like, I was.
00:07:33:06 - 00:07:40:08
Speaker 2
Like, Hey, I was like, you know, you work out in here, but like, the wall, there's nothing really on the wall. Like, what if I put up some peg boards on the wall?
00:07:42:21 - 00:07:47:19
Speaker 3
And so then I put up like three pegboard and put like, more gear out there. It's just, like, overflowing now.
00:07:48:04 - 00:07:49:02
Speaker 2
So it's. Yeah, it's pretty.
00:07:50:05 - 00:08:13:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, I, I actually worked at Mac for four years and so I worked there for about three and then it transitioned from the co-op and got bought out by Kingswood Capital. And so obviously a lot of changes happened then. But previously when it was the co-op, you know, we would have like literally like a shipping container full of warranty products that the majority of them were totally fine.
00:08:13:21 - 00:08:33:17
Speaker 1
Just Mac had an absurd warranty program that it was ridiculous for our business to like be thriving. They shouldn't have had the policy. But the point is, you know, all the staff would get together for a staff sale. You would get like pulled like a name out of a hat and then you'd like run onto the sales floor and they're just be like $200,000 of gear there.
00:08:33:17 - 00:08:47:19
Speaker 1
And it could be like an $800 tent that has like a little hole in it. And it's like 40 bucks. And like, it's like they're just the pricing was insane. And so through this system, I acquired obscene amounts of gear, you know, just so much gear.
00:08:47:22 - 00:08:49:10
Speaker 2
Mac Mac was.
00:08:49:10 - 00:09:08:15
Speaker 3
Crazy, dude, I don't know how it's like, yeah, I've been climbing now for maybe let's, I don't know, six years, maybe seven years, maybe. I don't know. But I've been, like, maybe more than that. Maybe seven or eight years. Like, you know, I start with hiking and then, like, hiking progressed to scrambling scramble and progressed to actually scrambling, progressed to dry to it, which is a very weird iteration.
00:09:08:15 - 00:09:19:22
Speaker 3
Like it shouldn't go in that manner. But yeah, I remember like going back to back in the day and just like starting to buy gear. And then I came back and I was like, hey, like, you know, this backpack, it's like I'm looking for a new one. And the staff is just like.
00:09:20:00 - 00:09:20:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, just.
00:09:20:12 - 00:09:23:21
Speaker 3
Return it. And I was like, No, no, I'm just looking for like a new one.
00:09:23:21 - 00:09:31:18
Speaker 2
I'll keep. No, no, no. Just return. It's all good. You just return it and go buy whatever you like. What? You guys make money? I just uses for three years and they would.
00:09:31:22 - 00:09:32:19
Speaker 3
Yeah. And so.
00:09:33:02 - 00:09:33:09
Speaker 2
It's.
00:09:33:16 - 00:09:40:00
Speaker 3
I don't know how they did it, but I heard about these, like, like warranty parties. Oh, yeah. You know, they told me about it.
00:09:40:05 - 00:09:43:01
Speaker 2
They were like, yeah, do we get all the gear? And then we go out.
00:09:43:01 - 00:09:43:22
Speaker 3
We just, like, buy them.
00:09:43:22 - 00:09:44:23
Speaker 2
Like what? Yeah, it's.
00:09:44:23 - 00:09:46:00
Speaker 3
Crazy. But I think.
00:09:46:03 - 00:10:04:01
Speaker 1
Which incentivizes the staff to return things that you shouldn't return. But that wasn't really why they returned. It was just like bad company policy. I think so. But it was a good time. I, I appreciated it in its own way. I just think it's a bad business model, you know? Yeah. You know, without, like, breaking the ice out of the way.
00:10:04:10 - 00:10:21:13
Speaker 1
I think for our guests here, you know, we like to do a bit of a deep dive into, you know, who the person we are actually interviewing. And so why don't you just, you know, introduce yourself and then tell us like a little bit about yourself. And we usually like to start kind of at the beginning, like, you know, who you are, where did you grow up?
00:10:22:06 - 00:10:23:04
Speaker 1
And we'll go from there.
00:10:24:00 - 00:10:24:15
Speaker 2
Sure. So, yeah.
00:10:25:05 - 00:10:44:22
Speaker 3
My name is Philip. Sarah, obviously, I grew up in B.C., in the Okanagan. I was born in salmon arm. I spent, I spent I was all over the place. I spent some time in salmon arm, Silver Creek, Eagle Bay. And then we did move to Calgary for a couple of years, and then we moved back to like northern B.C., like Hazelton Smither area.
00:10:44:22 - 00:10:46:16
Speaker 3
I don't know if you know where that is.
00:10:46:17 - 00:10:47:02
Speaker 1
I don't smell.
00:10:47:02 - 00:10:49:17
Speaker 3
It like it's pretty close to Alaska, you know?
00:10:49:17 - 00:10:52:02
Speaker 2
Smithers Yeah, I think. Do we talk about this before? No.
00:10:52:14 - 00:10:53:14
Speaker 1
But I know where Smithers is.
00:10:53:20 - 00:11:06:02
Speaker 3
Okay, maybe we didn't. Yeah, So it's. It's like, way up in northern B.C.. It's, like, middle of nowhere. It's like 2 hours from Alaska. There's nothing going on there. But, yeah, I grew up all over B.C..
00:11:06:17 - 00:11:07:03
Speaker 2
You know.
00:11:07:03 - 00:11:25:07
Speaker 3
I don't know. I know how far we want to get into it. So it was an interesting childhood. I was homeschooled my entire life, which was an interesting way to grow up, I guess, and develop social skills as a contributing member of society. And so, yeah, so, you know, I always grew up around the mountains, which I think kind of shaped a little bit of my climbing career.
00:11:25:20 - 00:11:47:09
Speaker 3
I moved to Calgary when I was 16. I moved out when I was 16 and I started working at the time. Why? It's time I actually started working at Home Depot. I did that for a couple of years and then I started a career as an electrician. I did that until I was about 24, and then I've been in the insurance industry ever since, which is about eight years now.
00:11:47:09 - 00:12:08:00
Speaker 3
God, nine years almost. Oh, my God. Yeah. So it's just a little bit about about, you know, where I grew up, kind of my careers, how I got started in climbing actually was really interesting. So in BCA, you know, we climb different mountains there in Calgary. I had only done like a few weird trails, like Johnson Canyon or like grassy lakes.
00:12:08:00 - 00:12:09:04
Speaker 3
I don't know. Do you guys know any of those?
00:12:09:04 - 00:12:09:18
Speaker 1
No eyes at.
00:12:09:18 - 00:12:26:11
Speaker 3
All? No, They're like, they're like total like, they're like hiking trails with like, you know, people with two poles and everything. So I didn't think that there was any, like, real mountains in Alberta. And then I went on a trip with this girl that we went on a date with, and I did Prairie Mountain in like a pair of Birkenstocks, cause I didn't know any better.
00:12:27:00 - 00:12:44:13
Speaker 3
And then I was like, Oh, there's actually like real mountains in Alberta. And I just like it didn't process in my mind because I'd only done these like hiking trails and I just assumed everything here was like these hiking trails. And then we did Prairie Mountain and I was like, Oh, this is like a real mountain. And so then I bought the island cane scrambling in the Canadian Rockies book.
00:12:45:01 - 00:13:02:00
Speaker 3
And then I was like, Oh, this is like, this is cool. Like, I love doing this. And so I started scrambling, started doing a little bit more of that. But the book just started like checking, climbs off. And I think I did like at the peak, I think I did like 60 Scrambles in one summer. It was just like every weekend I was going out and I was doing like two or three in a weekend.
00:13:02:00 - 00:13:18:03
Speaker 3
And then like during the week I would drive out and do like one at night. And so I was just like cranking off all these scrambles. And so I did that for, I think like a year or two. And I got just addicted to, to scrambling and like climbing in the mountains. And then it was funny, I went and did I can't remember what to call it.
00:13:18:03 - 00:13:30:20
Speaker 3
I wasn't rich and it was in the winter. And I went up and there was this party in front of me and I'm like going up there and I'm doing it. And I caught up with them and then we started chatting and they started talking and they're saying all these, like, weird things.
00:13:30:20 - 00:13:33:06
Speaker 2
They're like, Oh yeah, I did this like five.
00:13:33:06 - 00:13:36:12
Speaker 3
Seven and I've led this five, nine. And there was the crux of this and.
00:13:36:12 - 00:13:40:13
Speaker 2
Dotted and I was like, What? What are you talking about? Like, I've never heard the words.
00:13:40:13 - 00:13:40:23
Speaker 3
That are coming.
00:13:41:01 - 00:13:47:01
Speaker 2
I don't know what, what is this five mean. What is that five like? What does it mean? And they're like, Oh.
00:13:47:01 - 00:13:56:01
Speaker 3
That's rock climbing. That's like, that's how you grade rock climbing. And I was like, Oh, rock climbing. I'm like, Yeah, no, I'm good. Yeah. Like, I just love scrambling, you know?
00:13:56:01 - 00:13:58:05
Speaker 2
I'm just going to straddle it until I die.
00:13:58:17 - 00:14:11:20
Speaker 3
Like now rock climbing is like, that's super scary. I don't want anything to do with that, You know? Like there's ropes and, you know, people fall and heights crazy. Yeah. And they, like, they kind of just, like, look at each other and they, like, look at me. They're like, Yes, you will.
00:14:14:02 - 00:14:16:06
Speaker 2
And I'm like, No, no, no, I don't. I don't think I ever will.
00:14:16:20 - 00:14:32:11
Speaker 3
But I mean, obviously I, I yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it just kind of just kind of progressed since then, you know, I did a bunch of scrambles and then, you know, it's kind of funny how you get into it, right? So I bought your guidebooks, really get you into things. You know what I mean? Like, like Scrabble and the Canadian Rockies got me into scrambling.
00:14:32:20 - 00:14:51:03
Speaker 3
And then what's the other ones? Alpine are the 11,000. That's what it is. The 11,000 or so the Canadian Rockies. And I remember going through that book and picking out these different ones that, you know, Oh, this looks really cool. Let's do this, you know, this route. And I remember like reading in there and it was like, oh, might require like a second tool.
00:14:51:03 - 00:14:52:15
Speaker 2
And I was like, What's a second tool?
00:14:52:15 - 00:14:54:09
Speaker 3
What does that mean? That did like a bunch of research.
00:14:54:15 - 00:14:56:07
Speaker 2
And I was like, Oh, ice climbing.
00:14:56:07 - 00:15:05:07
Speaker 3
That's kind of interesting. Okay, Well, and we're talking that we talked about like, you know, buying decisions at the beginning of this like that was like, I mean, I'm like, oh, this is this is like the book tells me that I need it, so let's go to market.
00:15:05:07 - 00:15:06:19
Speaker 2
Let's buy some tools.
00:15:07:19 - 00:15:20:05
Speaker 3
And so I ended up actually buying just from this book. I ended up buying a set of mountaineering boots and crampons and tools. And then there was a buddy at the time and he was like, Hey, you know, I'm doing this dry tooling thing.
00:15:20:13 - 00:15:21:07
Speaker 2
And I was like, What the.
00:15:21:07 - 00:15:37:13
Speaker 3
Fuck is dry too? And he's like, Oh, it's we use it on rocks. Was it? Sure, I'll try anything, right? So then we went dry tooling, which like I'd done zero tool climbing at all. I barely done that much rock climbing and I was just like pumped out of my mind trying to climb these roads. And then. And then, yeah, it just kind of progressed from there.
00:15:37:13 - 00:15:57:08
Speaker 3
It was like from that. Then winter came again and then, yeah, I went to my first ice climb and that's kind of like, that's kind of like when I knew I was like, This is, this is like my fucking sport. Like everything else. Like, I love scrambling. I love the mountains, you know? I loved everything else. But as soon as I like, went ice climbing, I was like, This is the best sport.
00:15:57:13 - 00:16:19:00
Speaker 3
Like, there's no other. What other sport do you get to? Just, like, be like a complete male individual in, like the middle of winter with two ice axes and, like, spiky things on your feet and climb frozen waterfalls? Like, it's insane if you actually think about it like we've normalized it, but it's like the first time you do it, you're like, This is crazy and awesome and I never want to stop doing this.
00:16:19:08 - 00:16:21:01
Speaker 2
Okay? So yeah, I just kind.
00:16:21:01 - 00:16:25:20
Speaker 3
Of progressed from there and then, you know, I just as the years go on, I try to do more and more things. So.
00:16:26:18 - 00:16:54:13
Speaker 4
Yeah. Did you, did you like you kind of like did you start leading right away? Like, did you delete any of those dry tool pitches or are you following on top rope? Like what was your progression into? Because we're going to talk about risk a little bit later. So like in the very beginning, like what was your relationship with risk And like, how did you see and conceptualize the danger that was involved with getting away from scrambling and starting to take these more vertical approaches?
00:16:55:01 - 00:17:19:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's that's a good question. So like, I mean, I have a couple stories specifically in mountaineering that like, I just think back on, I'm like, what? How am I still alive? Like, that was so dumb just because, like, we have no concept of risk, right? Like, you know, especially in the beginning when you start like, nothing bad has ever happened to you or any of your friends because you don't have that many friends in the industry and you like talk to them old timers are like, Yeah, I've lost a lot of friends.
00:17:19:03 - 00:17:42:01
Speaker 3
You're like, Yeah, but like that's ever happened to me, so it's never going to happen to me. And, you know, so yeah, I mean a bunch of dumb shit, but you know, in the beginning when I started doing more vertical routes like dry tooling and ice climbing, actually I was incredibly fortunate to kind of like tag along with some other people who actually could lead the routes, which was like phenomenal experience for me.
00:17:42:15 - 00:17:59:17
Speaker 3
And I'm trying to think I think I started leading. I think I did start leading my first year, but like nothing, nothing crazy, like maybe like some two or three routes, you know, just kind of like, okay, this is this is how you get started. I think I maybe only did like a handful, like less than half a dozen that I lead the first year.
00:17:59:21 - 00:18:01:21
Speaker 3
And then the second year I started cranking it up.
00:18:02:21 - 00:18:04:06
Speaker 1
How long have you been ice climbing for?
00:18:08:06 - 00:18:15:11
Speaker 3
Good question. I think this is so sad. This would have been my fourth year, but I've done like nothing this year.
00:18:15:17 - 00:18:16:11
Speaker 2
So sad.
00:18:18:00 - 00:18:22:04
Speaker 3
So I guess I guess four years, but I'm not going to count this year. I'm just going to say this like a wash year.
00:18:22:11 - 00:18:27:23
Speaker 1
Okay. And like, how much what was your kind of like, aerobics bass and fitness bass of scrambling prior to getting into ice climbing?
00:18:30:02 - 00:18:30:17
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:18:31:01 - 00:18:48:17
Speaker 3
Pretty good, actually. Like it. That's a good question. Actually. I love I like I'm an addict for training if you guys ever like if you want to really dive into like my training and what I do for that and what's really helped as well throughout the years. So I think like yeah, when I was scrambling, I had a really good aerobic base because I was like crushing peak.
00:18:48:17 - 00:19:03:21
Speaker 3
So like I could hike forever and I could carry a heavy backpack. But you're not really doing any like technical vertical climbing, right? You're just like, you have like strong legs, you have strong cardio. But as soon as I like, got on like ice or dry tooling, I was like falling off, like hanging.
00:19:03:21 - 00:19:05:00
Speaker 2
On for dear life.
00:19:05:00 - 00:19:28:21
Speaker 3
Getting climbed like a four or like deep five, even. I was like, Oh my God, I'm dying for this. So the progression, like, definitely over the years I started to train a lot more for vertical climbing and actually I went to a gym here in Calgary, which helped more than anything in the whole world. Couple of things. First, at the time when I went so bad with training, like I never stretch, I didn't do anything.
00:19:29:08 - 00:19:46:00
Speaker 3
My like arms, I had like tendon OP at the or tendonitis or something like I had just like been ice climbing so much and dried healing so much and I never stretch and I never trained any other muscle that like opening doors was so painful I couldn't even, like, grab the door. That was the first thing. And then the second thing is I had these back problems that I've been dealing with for a couple of years.
00:19:46:00 - 00:20:03:23
Speaker 3
I ruptured my L4, L5 maybe like, I don't know, seven years ago or something like that is quite a while. So like between that. So I couldn't really do that much like running and I would always be messed up after like big days of climbing and then like whatever I had in my bicep tendinitis tendon apathy. And I went to my, my buddy Ralph, and I was just like complaining to him.
00:20:03:23 - 00:20:23:00
Speaker 3
I'm like, Dude, I can't climb. Like, everything hurts. I can barely open doors. And he's like, Oh, you should go to like this guy in Calgary. His name is, and he has his gym called a Session Fitness. And I was like, Yeah, like, I don't know, man. Like I've been to physiotherapy before. I've been to like chiropractors before, like, you know, the fix in people, right?
00:20:23:05 - 00:20:24:09
Speaker 3
Everyone's got a guy like.
00:20:24:09 - 00:20:31:16
Speaker 2
Oh, come to my guy, come see my night. Yeah, I'm like, I've already seen I got you guys, you know. Yeah, exactly. I was like, if I can.
00:20:31:16 - 00:20:33:16
Speaker 3
Guy like, Oh, you got to come see my guys.
00:20:33:16 - 00:20:34:04
Speaker 2
I'm like, I'm.
00:20:34:16 - 00:20:40:03
Speaker 3
Like, I've seen a lot of fucking guys, quote unquote. I don't need to. Someone's going to clip that fill up. I've seen a lot of.
00:20:40:03 - 00:20:42:13
Speaker 2
Guys anyways, so.
00:20:43:01 - 00:21:03:02
Speaker 3
So I was like, okay, let's let's do it. So, so I went there to to see this guy in which like, shout out to anyone in Calgary if you're like actually serious about training at a pro level. This guy's a savage. And so basically he runs this weird gym, which is like, like I don't even know what you would call it.
00:21:03:02 - 00:21:21:09
Speaker 3
It's like, it's like a quasi gym. People come in, he trains everybody at the same time. He yells at everybody is kind of like a sadist at heart. He loves to make people suffer and be in pain. And I showed up and he's like, What's wrong with you? And I was like, a lot of things, I guess. But I mean, what do you I guess we're going to talk about the physical things.
00:21:22:01 - 00:21:36:21
Speaker 3
And he's like, okay, tendonitis. Okay, this okay, You know, and he's like, What do you want to do? And I was like, Well, I want to climb like, I want to climb the ice. Like, I want to climb W6 ice. I want to climb as hard as you possibly can. And he's like, okay. And this was like, I think this was like the end of this this season, my second season.
00:21:37:09 - 00:21:56:08
Speaker 3
And so maybe like, let's say March or something like that. And he's like, okay, you come in. He's like, I'll develop your plan. You come in four times a week, you do exactly what I tell you to do. You do it for the next six months and your back will be healed. Your arms will be healed, and you can climb like ice.
00:21:56:19 - 00:22:21:05
Speaker 3
And I was like, Uh, okay. Like, for sure, dude. Like, let's see what happens. But this guy I like, shout out to him. If anyone is in Calgary and wants to, like, get serious about training this guy, like, put me through like, it's so much like, it's just stuff you don't do, right? Like, actually stretching out your limbs, actually stretching out all your muscles, muscle release therapy and like, he just loves making people suffer.
00:22:21:05 - 00:22:42:00
Speaker 3
And I suffered every day that I went there for like multiple hours, just like everything stretching, active release therapy, actual workouts, ladder workouts, which were super good ladder workouts with a weighted vest, which were super good, you know, everything on kettlebells, everything, like everything under the sun. But like, it's a serious place, man. Like, like Cirque du Soleil.
00:22:42:00 - 00:23:01:12
Speaker 3
When they come to town, those guys train. They're a bunch of other pro climbers train. They're like, pro athletes are training out of there, a ton of gym, and they're like, they're so savagely strong and just the entire environment, right? Like when you go in there, it's just like you just like try and raise your level because you're like, I'm by far the weakest person here.
00:23:01:12 - 00:23:03:07
Speaker 2
And I need to get together.
00:23:03:16 - 00:23:19:02
Speaker 3
But but yeah, but it worked, right? Like all that work when you think that like that goes back to I think just like one an easy fixes right like the chiropractors and physiotherapists it's like I just want to go to an individual and just like you know, prod me for a couple of hours and I want to be good again.
00:23:19:02 - 00:23:21:03
Speaker 3
It doesn't work like that. Like you.
00:23:21:03 - 00:23:22:15
Speaker 2
Have to put in the fucking work.
00:23:22:22 - 00:23:45:06
Speaker 3
Over and over and over again and like do all the things that you don't like, do it right. Like, I don't love stretching, but like, if that's what I have to do so my back isn't messed up and I can run a marathon, then that's what I'll do, right? And that was like, that's probably one of the best things that have happened from a climbing point of view, because that third season, like, dude, it was, it was stupid.
00:23:45:06 - 00:23:47:10
Speaker 2
It was stupid. Like the first, the first.
00:23:47:10 - 00:24:06:06
Speaker 3
Climb and like when did like a three and it was just like, oh, okay, this is like, you know, pretty legitimate. Like, okay, get back on it. And then like, and like, keep in mind, the season before, I didn't really climb like, just, like for, you know, things like that, maybe five. It's hardest. And so this season it was like, you know, okay, start on day three.
00:24:06:10 - 00:24:21:13
Speaker 3
Then I went to a four and I'm leading everything, and then I went to a five and I was and that was my first time I led a five and I was like, it felt so easy. I was like, it just like, it's crazy how strong your mental game can be when you know, you can just hang on forever.
00:24:21:18 - 00:24:36:15
Speaker 3
Like when you know your arms are so strong that like you and you're not tired, you're not pumped, you're not scared. You're like, Oh yeah, this is just I'm just having fun now, right? Like, you can just focus on the climbing and your technique and placements and not like, how do I get somewhere so I can put in a screw cause I'm scared I'm going to fall in my arms are tired.
00:24:37:05 - 00:24:38:02
Speaker 2
You know what I mean?
00:24:38:12 - 00:24:50:11
Speaker 3
And so it just kind of continued after that. So right after I did my first of five, then I went, did my first heavy like six, and it was again like I was like, Wow, this always you're then like I thought it was going to be. And then that season I just went on a tear and just climbed everything.
00:24:50:11 - 00:24:56:06
Speaker 3
In that year. And I can honestly directly contribute all of that to the training that I had at Ascension.
00:24:56:18 - 00:25:17:19
Speaker 1
I'd, I'd a really similar breakthrough for this year, not as much climbing as you. I think you had obviously a much larger breakthrough year but for me I went through dabbling a little bit with ice climbing, not having that much success having an issue. You're talking about word getting pumped really easily and stuff. And and I started like, you know, I kind of was getting more comfortable on ice and having that experience.
00:25:17:19 - 00:25:47:07
Speaker 1
But this year we did like eight weeks of like hard training, which was kind of like it was a template from training for the athlete like Steve House and Scott Johnston. And then we kind of added some of our own things into it. But I took that eight week period very, very, very serious and did a lot of really, really hard, like just grueling strength and functional training and core training and grip strength training and a lot of dry tooling and dry tooling with a weight vest.
00:25:47:14 - 00:26:05:12
Speaker 1
And I had the same experience like when I started climbing this season, not not quite on the level it sounds like you're describing. But most situations I was getting into is just, yeah, you're, you just realize I can, I can hang on forever. It's like the second it's vertical and going like I'm just good, like I can hang on forever.
00:26:05:20 - 00:26:38:23
Speaker 1
I feel I had more of an aversion mentally than you did, and I think part of that's because I've fallen and snapped both my ankles. And, you know, sometimes that feels very real kind of getting through that mental process. But yeah, in general, it was this really massive breakthrough of just, you know, you have to put in the work, You have to work really, really hard, you know, like and even some periods I'd be training and I'd be, you know, you're dry tooling, you're doing something and like just putting myself in the mindset, you know, you want to give up, you're on the wall, you're feeling pumped, and it's like, okay, well, if you above
00:26:38:23 - 00:27:01:06
Speaker 1
a screw, like, are you going to quit and just give up and fall to your death? Like, no, and just like, drive yourself so hard mentally training and putting yourself in that position because really that, that foundation and I think that foundation predicated on the aerobic base we talked about, because the aerobic base is the real foundation. Like you have to have the aerobic capacity to do the exercise and to train.
00:27:01:16 - 00:27:18:04
Speaker 1
But then once you have that capacity and you maintain it and you work on these functional skills and the strength and power, it really opens the door in to what you're capable of doing and what you can do. So yeah, so but yeah, I had my best season ever this year, which was really, really exciting and I'm really, really stoked on it.
00:27:19:00 - 00:27:24:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, I thought I saw a few pictures, I think because it was. I think it was you in what is it? Not Chilliwack, but.
00:27:25:14 - 00:27:32:11
Speaker 1
It's mainly Lillooet. Lillooet. Average River, Golden Age. Those areas like that's the Mecca of ice area for us here. Yeah.
00:27:33:00 - 00:27:36:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw a few pictures from some climbs there. You had a great season.
00:27:37:01 - 00:27:56:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, it was great. I led my first five the season, you know, for started becoming, like, comfortable, you know, like I could climb fours and I'm just, like, feeling good and feeling relaxed. It felt kind of like this. This nice, nonchalant thing. FEIST Still a little like, you know, pretty high pressure for me. But, you know, I'm looking to make some breakthroughs for next season.
00:27:56:10 - 00:27:56:19
Speaker 1
So.
00:27:57:02 - 00:28:14:20
Speaker 3
Dude, good for you. Yeah, that's awesome. It really does start with with, like, training, like visit, Like that's, that's where your headspace, like, you're, you're comfortable headspace and good headspace will come from like when you're feeling strong and all of a sudden like routs that you used to do that used to scare you now sort of become easier.
00:28:14:20 - 00:28:29:20
Speaker 3
It's like, Oh, okay, I have this like I can, I can hang on, I can pull the roof, I can rest before the break if I'm not going to get pumped out. So it's like, yeah, I think I mean, I'm I'm an addict for training and I put a lot of time and effort into it. So and it like I think it has allowed me to do like a lot of really cool.
00:28:31:00 - 00:28:52:22
Speaker 1
Yeah so like and in my in my estimation and experience there's kind of two routes you can go. You can either be very, very regimented and very involved in the training part and preparation, or you can put yourself in a position where you can literally just climb all the time, 24 seven and then you can kind of amalgamate the two.
00:28:52:22 - 00:29:16:10
Speaker 1
Some people do that right, but there really is no like between or secret hack, like you either have to be working your ass off in an intelligent way, preparing yourself, you know, because it's very much life and death, like the work you put in, you know, being able to hold on longer, that that is life and death. So you have to put in the work or you have to be able to actually just go climb all the time.
00:29:16:22 - 00:29:17:09
Speaker 2
And.
00:29:17:12 - 00:29:36:00
Speaker 1
You know that that one's a little harder to swing. I think, you know, you can have a busy life in a full time job and wake up am get a like crush a workout in and then PM get another workout in. And that's difficult, that's exhausting, that's tiring on top of life, but that's possible. Whereas if you're like, okay, I got my 9 to 5, I can't just wake up today and go climbing and like go back to my van.
00:29:36:00 - 00:29:39:01
Speaker 1
You know? So it's definitely it's definitely.
00:29:39:01 - 00:29:39:20
Speaker 3
That is the dream.
00:29:39:22 - 00:29:40:18
Speaker 1
That is the dream.
00:29:41:20 - 00:29:42:10
Speaker 2
That energy.
00:29:44:23 - 00:29:51:02
Speaker 3
That's I mean, like, I don't be wrong, I love training, but if I had the choice between training and climbing, I would go climbing like.
00:29:51:05 - 00:29:51:13
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:29:53:10 - 00:29:54:03
Speaker 3
In a heartbeat.
00:29:54:03 - 00:30:20:15
Speaker 1
So, you know, through this experience that you've had where you had this really successful season in the in the Rockies, you know, like, do you have a mentor or do you have like regular people you climb with like, I know you climb with stars? Like, you know, how did that come about and who are the people that maybe like, push you and have set you up to have this kind of success?
00:30:21:16 - 00:30:22:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:30:22:20 - 00:30:40:09
Speaker 3
That's a good question. Actually, I just had a I had this conversation yesterday and we were talking about the three types of of partners that you need. So the first part that you need is you need someone that's like at the same level as you. So like you're both the same physically strong, mentally strong. And so like, you share the pitches, you know, if things go wrong, right?
00:30:40:09 - 00:30:44:20
Speaker 3
Like no problem. You know, you guys are like equal there. You can figure it out together and that's like.
00:30:44:23 - 00:30:45:08
Speaker 2
That should.
00:30:45:08 - 00:31:02:23
Speaker 3
Be like your main climbing partner. They should be like the guy that your girl, whatever you that you go out with most of the time because you guys are, you know, sharing the weight. And the other side, though, is like, you want to go out with someone who is just drastically better than you, like just like way more superior, because then you get to get on some shit that like, you would never lead, you know, just like wild things.
00:31:03:04 - 00:31:04:08
Speaker 3
And it's like, holy shit.
00:31:04:08 - 00:31:07:11
Speaker 2
Like, this is what's possible. This is insane, right?
00:31:07:11 - 00:31:20:01
Speaker 3
But the problem with with climbing, with guys that are way better than you, and this was something that I actually went through, and that's you climbing with stars is your mind just goes into, like, auto mode, right? Like you.
00:31:20:01 - 00:31:21:01
Speaker 2
Don't you don't have to think about.
00:31:21:01 - 00:31:31:22
Speaker 3
Anything like you're colliding with a pro climber that's like arguably one of the best pure ice climbers in the world. Right? So it's like, you know, if you get up to a pitch and it's like, oh, it's a little bit scary look and it's like, oh, stars, you lead it.
00:31:32:03 - 00:31:38:23
Speaker 2
You you know what I mean? And then like, you can see, you know, You know what I mean? So it's like it kind.
00:31:38:23 - 00:31:58:01
Speaker 3
Of psychs you out and your mind is never like mentally preparing. You know, you don't get, you know, kind of same hardness. And it's very easy. Another thing to it's like you also feel kind of stupid, like leading anything, right? So it's like, oh, here you can lead the, you know, the five pitch and like, okay, you start leading it and then you're like, Oh man, like, I see, like, am I taking too long?
00:31:58:01 - 00:32:11:00
Speaker 3
Like, I just put in like ten times the amount of screws that he would put in. Like, you know, he probably is. Would it solo this entire thing? You know what I mean? And all that's kind of in your head. And I mean, granted, you could probably, you know, watch that out if you were more mentally strong, but I couldn't seem to do that.
00:32:11:00 - 00:32:28:17
Speaker 3
So for me, it was always like, oh, like now you laid, you laid, you laid, you laid out as followed everything, right? But then the inverse of that, though, which which is where I actually started to see the most of my success was when you go with guys that that are like not not nearly as good as you right now, nearly physically good as you or as mentally strong as you.
00:32:28:21 - 00:32:37:06
Speaker 3
And so like, you know that like when you get there, it's game time. Like if you want to get up this climb, you are the one that's getting up this climb.
00:32:37:13 - 00:32:39:08
Speaker 2
And it just it changes your entire.
00:32:39:08 - 00:32:50:21
Speaker 3
Mindset, right? Because then you're like, you're driving out to the climb and like everyone else is like laughing, having a good time and like, you are too. But in the back of your mind, you're like, It's fucking go time and like 3 hours from now and I'm on this pitch, right? So it's like.
00:32:50:21 - 00:32:51:11
Speaker 2
There's no.
00:32:51:11 - 00:33:03:19
Speaker 3
There's no escaping it. And so I think that like, you know, mental fortitude that you start to, like, build into yourself as you're driving out and then you're like walking or hiking to the climb and you get to it and you look at it, it's like, okay, it's game time now. I got to get my game face on.
00:33:03:19 - 00:33:15:08
Speaker 3
I got to lead this because like, what are we going to do? We just going to walk here and then go home? Like, like they knew that I was going to lead it. I knew that I was going to lead it. So like, I can't come up with any excuses like, oh, I don't know, it looks scary. Do you want to lead it?
00:33:15:09 - 00:33:18:05
Speaker 2
Like, Yeah, So.
00:33:19:03 - 00:33:19:10
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:33:19:10 - 00:33:21:11
Speaker 2
So I guess like those, those I.
00:33:21:11 - 00:33:21:21
Speaker 3
Don't know man.
00:33:21:21 - 00:33:23:01
Speaker 2
Partners. Like I've.
00:33:23:01 - 00:33:39:03
Speaker 3
I've had such a, like a difficult I don't know if everyone has a fickle time with partners, but I feel like, you know, I don't go through partners by any means, but like I climbed with, with my buddy Ryan a bunch and then, like, he's fickle too, so, like, he'll climb a bunch and then, like, all of a sudden he's when he's done, he's just like, done, like he's gone.
00:33:39:03 - 00:33:43:22
Speaker 3
He's like, just ghost you for the rest of the year. It's like, Hey, man, are we going climbing? He's like, silent got.
00:33:44:08 - 00:33:49:11
Speaker 2
So he so, you know, when he climbs you, like, you know what.
00:33:49:15 - 00:33:52:22
Speaker 3
One of the best guys to climb with and but the if you can get him out I don't.
00:33:52:22 - 00:33:54:08
Speaker 2
Know. We'll see.
00:33:54:15 - 00:34:09:01
Speaker 3
And then yeah, I climbed I climbed a bunch of stars. That is actually a funny story. This is just like how egotistical climbers and specifically myself are. So, yeah, at the time I think this is like my third year I think was my third year, right? So I thought I was like, top shit, right?
00:34:09:01 - 00:34:10:11
Speaker 2
I'm like, Oh yeah, climbing.
00:34:10:20 - 00:34:11:22
Speaker 3
5 to 6.
00:34:11:22 - 00:34:16:06
Speaker 2
I'm so good at sports. And then there was this.
00:34:16:12 - 00:34:22:16
Speaker 3
There was this lady that I climbed with, and I feel so bad now because I forgot her name's Brian, Brian, Brian And she's like.
00:34:22:16 - 00:34:23:05
Speaker 2
Hey, she's.
00:34:23:05 - 00:34:44:10
Speaker 3
Like, My friend is coming from the animal to to Calgary or to, you know, the Canadian Rockies. And, you know, he's looking for four partners and, you know, you know, I know because my schedule super flexible. I always take off like mid-week or like whenever I basically want, I just take off and go and she's like, yeah, I know your your schedule is quite flexible, so maybe I'll connect you guys, right?
00:34:44:17 - 00:34:48:07
Speaker 3
And I was like, Oh yeah, sure. Like, I'll, I'll take your buddy out now, no problem. I'll take.
00:34:50:06 - 00:34:51:22
Speaker 2
Okay. And then I.
00:34:51:22 - 00:35:04:20
Speaker 3
Knew nothing about stars before I met him. And so he just like, connected us. I'm like, Yeah, man, for sure. Like, what do you want to get on? Like, let me know. Don't worry. What do you want to get on? And he's like, Oh, yeah, everything. I'm like, Yeah, yeah. But like, well.
00:35:04:20 - 00:35:05:10
Speaker 2
He's like, Oh, we could.
00:35:05:10 - 00:35:05:18
Speaker 3
Do like.
00:35:05:23 - 00:35:07:02
Speaker 2
I don't know, Nemesis.
00:35:07:02 - 00:35:11:07
Speaker 3
Or we could do this. I'm like, Oh, yeah, okay, that's actually pretty hard. Okay, Yeah, I think.
00:35:11:10 - 00:35:11:21
Speaker 2
And he's like, Oh.
00:35:11:21 - 00:35:24:21
Speaker 3
No, no problem. I'll get. And I'm like, Okay, I don't know who this guy is. And so I can't even remember what our first climb was, man. But I learned very quickly, like just because something is rated sex, just you climbed one six like doesn't mean that you're a sex.
00:35:24:21 - 00:35:31:10
Speaker 2
Climber, right? And I started following some shit that stars would put up.
00:35:31:17 - 00:35:32:08
Speaker 3
And I'm like.
00:35:32:16 - 00:35:35:06
Speaker 2
It. I can't even imagine.
00:35:35:11 - 00:35:45:01
Speaker 3
Be in here without rope above me. Like, this is insane. Like. And I used to say, I used to say I was like, Oh, I can fault. Like, if I'm on top rope, I can follow anything. That's not true.
00:35:45:10 - 00:35:49:21
Speaker 2
It's not true. It's Like, there is some shit you can't even top rule. Yeah.
00:35:50:15 - 00:35:52:19
Speaker 1
There's a lot of shit. I can't even top rope.
00:35:54:13 - 00:35:56:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like we've.
00:35:56:10 - 00:36:22:02
Speaker 3
We went out some. Yeah, like there's some pretty. So I'm trying to think of, like, some savage roots that he's taken me up like. I mean, yeah, like Nemesis. We did it really early season in early conditions. That was wild. We did. We did Real big drip, which was. That's. That's a hard fucking climb like it is. Just like from the moment your feet leave the ground till the moment they get back on the ground, it's just like pure like overhanging vertical.
00:36:22:02 - 00:36:40:22
Speaker 3
I think it's 88 plus six plus like it's, it's full on, it's full on dude. It's like, and like, here's the thing. It's like stabs doesn't. He's not like the climber that was like, Hey, y'all do this like 30 meter pitch. And that's the rock section and I'll do the 30 meter pitch, like he'll connect, like he will run every.
00:36:40:22 - 00:36:42:02
Speaker 2
So like, you're not following.
00:36:42:02 - 00:36:49:18
Speaker 3
A 30 meter pitch of like D plus you're following like have a 70 meter rope, you're following 70 meters, like, of everything.
00:36:49:18 - 00:36:50:01
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:36:50:03 - 00:36:58:02
Speaker 3
And that's like, that's even too short for him. Like, he's got an 80 meter rope. He's like, we're doing 80 meter pitches, and he'll run that 80 meter pitch out and be like, Can you see him on the first part?
00:36:58:21 - 00:37:00:23
Speaker 2
Wow. Wow.
00:37:01:09 - 00:37:02:12
Speaker 3
So, yeah.
00:37:02:20 - 00:37:12:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's really unbelievable. I've seen quite a, quite a few of your videos. I saw your experience on the trip. That was pretty, pretty funny to watch. And I think you hung in there. You did pretty good.
00:37:15:12 - 00:37:31:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I got. I got. You know what I actually hate? Yeah, I want to go back and I wanted to go back and do it clean this year. Obviously know it didn't didn't work out that way this year, but yeah, I didn't do it clean. I didn't do it clean last year. I think I fell. I fell at one point.
00:37:31:11 - 00:37:58:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. I felt right at the on the first pitch on the rock to transition onto the ice, which was super unfortunate because we had that was our second time doing it and the first time we got lost and went up the wrong route or ran up the wrong gully. And then it was like late when we started. So we did the first pitch and I, like I died the first time we did the first pitch, and I think I fell like 12 times or like I was it was embarrassing.
00:37:58:20 - 00:38:01:01
Speaker 3
So the second time I was like, You.
00:38:01:01 - 00:38:02:02
Speaker 2
Got this Phillip Coach, put.
00:38:02:02 - 00:38:18:10
Speaker 3
Your head down, you got. So I was like literally one move away from being done that first pitch clean and then I like my tool just popped and yeah, you're just on like these little tiny holds, right at the transition over and it just popped as I was pulling up on it. So it's unfortunate, but, but yeah, I'd love to go back and get it clean.
00:38:18:10 - 00:38:21:01
Speaker 3
Hopefully, hopefully next year I'm supposed to do it this year, but hopefully next.
00:38:21:01 - 00:38:30:13
Speaker 1
Year it's such a beautiful climb. You know, I went in the Ghost for the first time this season with my partner Reggie. We just we just we, we climbed vacancies. That was the only thing we climbed the ice do.
00:38:30:13 - 00:38:31:01
Speaker 2
That's all.
00:38:31:01 - 00:38:48:01
Speaker 1
That's good of climb. So it was really nice. But. But yeah, the ghost is just so beautiful. It's really amazing. And yeah, yeah. When we were driving out, we got a good look at of the real big trip, and I didn't, I didn't actually realize there's like a gazillion pitches of five plus like at the very end of it, right.
00:38:48:01 - 00:39:07:04
Speaker 1
Like it's just like a massive lie. I didn't actually know that I was, I'd only looked at the bottom sections because it's so, you know, you see it in photos and stuff particularly, you know, and it's just like, Oh my God, it's unbelievable. But then after that, there's a whole bunch of sustained continuous climbing, like the scale of some of these climbs.
00:39:07:04 - 00:39:19:18
Speaker 1
It's just there's a reason like the Rockies are world class ice climbing, you know, the flow and the size and the scale is just unbelievable how large it is. It's really, really crazy.
00:39:21:05 - 00:39:27:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. It's actually it's so there's actually only like one one pitch of that. Like, Oh, is it okay?
00:39:27:11 - 00:39:31:17
Speaker 1
It's a stars. It's a stars pitch of okay.
00:39:32:03 - 00:39:34:11
Speaker 3
And then after after that, it's all just like rambly.
00:39:35:03 - 00:39:35:13
Speaker 1
Okay.
00:39:36:02 - 00:39:52:09
Speaker 3
And actually, yeah, I was, I was talking to Alan Kerr and Alan Curry, I was talking to him today and he was actually saying like, like him and some other guys, they would climb up the Joker, which is to the gully, to the right, and then they would go over and then wrap down to just the pure ice pitch.
00:39:53:06 - 00:39:56:19
Speaker 3
And I was like, Huh, that's interesting. I guess you could do that as well.
00:39:56:19 - 00:40:03:10
Speaker 1
That's pretty cool, just to get like more climbing in and not have to do like am a you know why six was.
00:40:04:22 - 00:40:09:00
Speaker 2
Can't blame him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.
00:40:09:00 - 00:40:13:18
Speaker 3
But If you get the opportunity you should, you should absolutely go in and try it.
00:40:14:18 - 00:40:23:07
Speaker 1
I mean I would do it's definitely a dream. Same thing with I, I think cry phobia but they're just out of my league right now, you know. Have you jumped on crowd phobia?
00:40:24:22 - 00:40:49:14
Speaker 3
No, no. So I've done I've done hydrophobia a few times now and and then I was there. There was one year that no one climbed cry or phobia because none of the ice was. Yeah. And like, the bolts, the bolts just end, right? And then you're just like, there's supposed to be ice. And like several, like pretty prominent climbers went and looked at it and they're like, No, it's FUBAR.
00:40:49:14 - 00:40:53:19
Speaker 3
We're not doing. Yeah. And so like, stars heard that. And he's like, Oh, I'm definitely doing it.
00:40:54:03 - 00:40:55:13
Speaker 2
And so what.
00:40:56:12 - 00:41:12:12
Speaker 3
I went there the one year and myself and a partner did hydro while stars Carol and then my buddy Jeremy did Craig and they did it that year and it was like looking over. I'm like looking at them from Hydro because I brought my camera up and I was taking a bunch of pictures.
00:41:12:23 - 00:41:14:06
Speaker 2
And I'm just like, Oh.
00:41:14:06 - 00:41:26:16
Speaker 3
My, that is fubar do because like the bullets just end, right? And then like, stats just keeps on climbing like this, like thin rock. And then he's like, this little crack ends. Maybe I will go back.
00:41:26:16 - 00:41:28:06
Speaker 2
Down and I'm like, What?
00:41:28:14 - 00:41:50:09
Speaker 3
So he's just like, I don't know, ten, 15 meters above his last bolt and just like, going up on slab, trying to find little things, like trying to get to the ice. But it was like it was a wild adventure. I think they they wrapped down at like 1030 at night like it was We got down, I think at like 4:00 in the afternoon.
00:41:50:20 - 00:42:05:07
Speaker 3
And we even took a long time. So I was taking pictures and, you know, much other things. And then they were like just starting up and I think the last pitch and it still took them like another 6 hours to get to the top of that last pitch and then wrap down like we just like started a fire to, like, stay warm.
00:42:05:07 - 00:42:17:17
Speaker 3
But it is it was wild that year like I know some years it like comes in like a little bit more tame It's still don't get me wrong it's still a very hard climb but that year was like savage But no, I never I've never gotten on it. I'd really like to go and do it. It looks like an awesome climb.
00:42:17:17 - 00:42:20:12
Speaker 3
And then there's the other one there as well. No phobia. That's which is.
00:42:20:19 - 00:42:24:00
Speaker 1
Really hard though. It's like 12 or something, you know, like I.
00:42:24:00 - 00:42:25:12
Speaker 2
Think, No, no, no, no, no. I mean.
00:42:25:14 - 00:42:26:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, it is, it is hard, you.
00:42:27:01 - 00:42:27:11
Speaker 2
Know. But I.
00:42:27:11 - 00:42:28:14
Speaker 3
Think it's only I.
00:42:28:14 - 00:42:29:12
Speaker 1
Think it's m ten or.
00:42:29:17 - 00:42:30:17
Speaker 2
12 because like I said.
00:42:30:23 - 00:42:32:23
Speaker 3
It's m ten. No, no, no. It's, it's m ten.
00:42:32:23 - 00:43:07:11
Speaker 1
Because Sarah Sarah Hannigan, she just did the, the whole link up of those in her video, you know, not alone. C Which is really, really powerful story. Anybody listening if you want to listen, if you wanna watch a pretty amazing climbing film, it's very tragic. But it is really, really amazing. It's called Not Alone. Yeah. So I think just, you know, when you're describing that for people who are listening, who maybe don't really know stars like what it's like to say stars is leading a pitch and it takes like four or 5 hours that the idea of that happening is so unbelievable.
00:43:07:11 - 00:43:32:00
Speaker 1
And yeah, absolutely absurd. Like this is somebody who can just, you know, mincemeat like five plus and walk up it like it's nothing and put in no screws, you know, who climbs like pencil thick pillars, you know, scratching his way up. So if this person's leading a pitch and it takes four or 5 hours, I just I can't even conceptualize, like, what that means and what that person is actually doing at the other end of the rope.
00:43:32:00 - 00:43:54:10
Speaker 1
It's so far fetched and unbelievable. It almost like beggars belief that it's possible, in my opinion. But, you know, I actually recently was listening to one of your stories where you're talking about I don't know if maybe mind talking about it, that I think it was. What was the story where stars traversed you ended up like getting, I think, frostbite on your fingers.
00:43:54:10 - 00:43:57:20
Speaker 1
Do you mind telling us a little bit about that? It's just such a good story. I'd love to hear it if you're okay.
00:43:57:20 - 00:43:58:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. See a.
00:43:59:08 - 00:44:00:07
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah, that was it.
00:44:00:07 - 00:44:28:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, dude. And that that is okay. So, like, I like, like grades on ice are so subjective rights. It's like, I don't know, is it five, five plus, Is it six and six plus. I can pretty like matter of factly say that like if this not, why seven. I don't know what would be like. There's nothing else in the world that I think could be this like difficult and unpredictable and sustained.
00:44:29:00 - 00:44:49:04
Speaker 3
And so it's basically like, wake up if you don't know what sea vapor is. This way up on the head wall in Banff, on Mount Rundle, and it's like, let me think. It's like, so you've got this one climb which is called postscript, which I think is like 30 or 40 meters, six. And then you have to traverse over on like rock with nothing.
00:44:49:12 - 00:44:52:17
Speaker 3
Like there's nothing that I think it's like, like seven or eight or something like that.
00:44:53:01 - 00:44:54:08
Speaker 2
Like it's, it's pretty spicy.
00:44:54:15 - 00:45:11:18
Speaker 3
And then you get on to the ice and then, you know, you climb up. I think it's like maybe another 100 meters or maybe 120 meters of like, you know, it usually it forms anywhere from five to, they say seven. So, yes, we we got up to the base of Postscript and start to.
00:45:11:18 - 00:45:14:04
Speaker 2
Like, this is like, this is savages. Like I don't.
00:45:14:04 - 00:45:23:16
Speaker 3
Understand some of the things he does. So as there it was myself, it was this guy named JJ. That's not his name. I think it's Jed Rhodes. You know, I'm talking to guys I.
00:45:23:16 - 00:45:24:07
Speaker 1
Don't know.
00:45:24:07 - 00:45:25:00
Speaker 2
From from.
00:45:25:14 - 00:45:46:17
Speaker 3
From Boston. I think it's Boston. Yeah, I just him. JJ But he was there. He's a savage, dry till. He's very strong and stars. And so stars went up postscript him and then, like, I was like, doing this, like, layering thing, right? Like, I was like, trying to figure out my layering system. And so I was like, Oh, it's only minus ten, so I'm going to wear this like, thin ballet jacket and like, this thin thing.
00:45:46:23 - 00:46:03:16
Speaker 3
And I didn't like, take into consideration that we're like, you know, hundreds and hundreds of meters up on the side of this, you know, north facing mountain. And it's blowing wind and there's Spindrift and like there's snow in my gloves. And so I was there and it was like an hour went by and I'm like, I'm like, what's going on?
00:46:03:16 - 00:46:04:10
Speaker 3
Like what? Like what's.
00:46:04:10 - 00:46:04:20
Speaker 2
Happened?
00:46:05:03 - 00:46:11:09
Speaker 3
And he's like, he's still at the Traverse. He just, like, cannot believe there's nothing there. And he's just like yelling down. He's like.
00:46:11:09 - 00:46:16:09
Speaker 2
There's nothing here. I'm like, What do you mean there's nothing there?
00:46:16:15 - 00:46:31:22
Speaker 3
And so then like, another hour goes by, another hours goes by. And so 4 hours went by. It took them four out. So this is the pitch that took him 4 hours, cry the last bit to cry out and take him 4 hours. This pitch took him 4 hours to lead. And then like, finally he went up and like he had.
00:46:31:22 - 00:46:33:08
Speaker 2
280.
00:46:33:08 - 00:46:52:02
Speaker 3
Meter single ropes on him. One for me, one for JJ, like thick ropes to like, I'm not going to like, you know, these little like 8.6 is like I think one was like a ten two or something like these heavy ass, 680 meters, heaviest single ropes. I'm like, I don't even understand how that much weight.
00:46:52:12 - 00:46:53:13
Speaker 2
Like, so.
00:46:53:13 - 00:47:13:13
Speaker 3
Heavy. I don't know. Unbelievable, dude. I go out, I have those Mahmood, those triple rated ones, and I go out with two of those and I'm like, Oh, this is so heavy. So like, the fact and there's only 17 and he had 80, so it's crazy. So anyways, yeah, basically. So then we climbed up postscript them and like, this is kind of when I started to learn like, no, you can't.
00:47:13:13 - 00:47:39:04
Speaker 3
Just because you're on top rope doesn't mean like you can do anything. So because there's like nothing. So basically once you traverse over there was like, I'm not joking. There's nothing there. Like it was just dead vertical, nice somehow, like bonded to the rock, but like, not even that. Well, it's just like this nice, like, very glass ice dead vertical for, like, 40 meters.
00:47:39:13 - 00:47:41:10
Speaker 2
So, like, you're traversing postscript.
00:47:41:10 - 00:47:58:09
Speaker 3
Them that we traverse over to it, and then you start climbing up it. And so the traverse is maybe like five meters, but like all of a sudden you take out the last screw and you realize that like, Oh, I have to do this traverse, Or I'm like, lost in space because, like.
00:47:58:23 - 00:48:00:12
Speaker 2
There's nothing below me.
00:48:01:01 - 00:48:07:05
Speaker 3
And so, yeah, like traversing over, got on to it and I'm just like, This is fucking foo bar.
00:48:07:05 - 00:48:09:12
Speaker 2
There's nothing here, there's nothing here.
00:48:09:17 - 00:48:33:16
Speaker 3
And you're just like, I'm just scratching up it, right? Like, if you swing, it's just rock. It's just literally rock. Like my crampons are going into rock by tools are going into rock. And I like, I climbed up we climbed up like another 40 or 45 meters. And like I finally we passed like one red screw. I get to the anchor and it's like literally it's like two yellow is one, red lake is stubby, tied like dude, it was.
00:48:33:23 - 00:48:45:00
Speaker 3
And we're just three of us hanging here in like, no man's land. At this point, I realized that I had frostbite on my fingers. I couldn't do anything. I'm just like sitting there with these, like, little gimp.
00:48:45:00 - 00:48:46:01
Speaker 2
Hands.
00:48:46:20 - 00:48:49:09
Speaker 3
And like, says it's such a trooper. He's just like, Okay, I.
00:48:49:10 - 00:48:50:04
Speaker 2
See you guys.
00:48:50:04 - 00:49:07:02
Speaker 3
It is like, goes off. And I'm like, okay, see you do it. But then JJ didn't think that it would take us that long to climb that. So then he didn't bring his headlamp, He didn't bring anything bring like he was like, Oh, we're going to get down. But at that point it was like 5:00 the sun went down, it's pitch black.
00:49:07:09 - 00:49:25:07
Speaker 3
And so luckily I had a headlamp on. My hands were so destroyed I got frostbite. And then like also my puffy jacket, the zipper broke. So it's just like flapping around in the wind and I'm wearing it. And so I'm like, I'm like, JJ, you have to put this headlamp on me to not drop it. I'm like, I cannot put it on me right now.
00:49:25:10 - 00:49:41:10
Speaker 3
You could not drop it. And it's like pitch black, blowing wind. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is just FUBAR. And so finally you. Okay, The rope went up and then we, like, climbed up and, and then it like the ice thickened and, you know, it turned from seven to like just six plus.
00:49:41:13 - 00:49:43:02
Speaker 2
So just like.
00:49:43:10 - 00:50:00:12
Speaker 3
Climbing. And then I would, you know, like look down and like, point my headlamp at JJ and, you know, I'm just hanging, you know, off the side of this mountain and it's just like pure vertical ice. So yeah. So then I felt so bad. So I got to the top. I'm destroyed. Like my hands are destroyed. I'm pumped out of my mind.
00:50:01:04 - 00:50:22:02
Speaker 3
I'm just like, done. I've been freezing all day. Like the moment we, like, stopped and, like, started playing. I was freezing. I'm still freezing. And, like, Starz never asks for anything. He's always like, like game time. He's like, you know, don't I lead? I'll get us down, I'll repel. Like, he's never asked me for anything ever. And he's like, he's like, Philip, can you, can you repel and set up?
00:50:22:07 - 00:50:27:01
Speaker 2
And I'm like, Dude, I'm so sorry. I literally can think like.
00:50:27:05 - 00:50:28:00
Speaker 3
It'll be a miracle.
00:50:28:15 - 00:50:29:02
Speaker 1
The one.
00:50:29:02 - 00:50:30:07
Speaker 2
Time. Like it'll be a miracle.
00:50:30:07 - 00:50:48:13
Speaker 3
Yeah, the one time. Exactly. Like it'll be a miracle if I get off this idea. I'm like, I don't. I can't even function right now. I can't even, like, do anything with my hands. Like, they're just. They're blocks of ice right now. So we had to drop down to basically, like, the end of the good ice and then like, build a V thread there because, like, there nothing else.
00:50:48:13 - 00:51:11:19
Speaker 3
There's nothing. There's, there's nothing to build anything off of. And then we're like praying that from there we can get back down to the top of post script them. And it's just like a guesswork. We're like, I think we can make it, we'll find out. And so they started went down first and then, you know, okay, the rope went Louis and then JJ went like without a headlamp just into the darkness tent.
00:51:12:11 - 00:51:17:19
Speaker 3
And then it's like, okay, it goes Louis And, and then I, like, I take out all the backup screws. I'm just like, looking at this, like.
00:51:17:19 - 00:51:19:14
Speaker 2
Featuring like, Oh my God, what am I doing.
00:51:19:14 - 00:51:20:11
Speaker 3
With my life? Like, is.
00:51:20:11 - 00:51:21:09
Speaker 2
This what I want to do?
00:51:23:05 - 00:51:36:20
Speaker 3
And so I just, like, put it on pallet. I like, start going down and I'm like, going down, going down, I'm going down. It's like, it's like, like almost whiteout conditions. Like it's blowing wind, not whiteout, but it's like blowing wind and snow everywhere. And it's pitch pitch black. And I'm like, where that?
00:51:36:20 - 00:51:40:01
Speaker 2
I'm like, I'm rappin quite a bit. Like I should. They should be.
00:51:40:01 - 00:51:55:18
Speaker 3
Here somewhere, right? And I like I'm like, down and down and down. And then I like, look over to the left. I'm like, Oh my God. They're like, at Post-Script. I'm like, way over to the left. And they're maybe like ten, ten, 12 meters or something like that, ten meters over to the left. And they're like, You have to come over here.
00:51:55:18 - 00:52:03:04
Speaker 3
It's like, Oh my God. So I start like, doing this like pendulum swing where I'm like, running back and forth, trying to get enough to get there.
00:52:03:17 - 00:52:11:02
Speaker 2
And I'm just like, thinking of this little, little piece of top of top. Like, this is what I want to do, fill up. This is what I'm doing with my life.
00:52:12:08 - 00:52:33:02
Speaker 3
But yeah, it was we got there. There was some there were some pitons, thankfully, at the top of Postscript and some old knots. And we wrapped off that and made it out, walked back to the car. I think I like I think I got there in the morning around like three, 3 a.m.. And then I think I got back home at like 2 a.m. in Calgary and I was just like, I'm done.
00:52:35:17 - 00:52:57:07
Speaker 1
So yeah, yeah, that's absolutely absurd story. You know, it's I think it's one of those things where in hindsight, like it sounds really amazing and really interesting. But yeah, exactly. To, to think of it, you're like, Oh my God, Like, I can't believe there's just so many layers upon layers upon layers of just total insanity there to, to kind of make it through.
00:52:57:07 - 00:53:01:04
Speaker 1
And yeah, it's really unbelievable. You know.
00:53:01:10 - 00:53:21:16
Speaker 3
There's like, there's a thing for that. It's like, like, like type. What is it like type one Fun is like fun while you're doing it. Fun to think back on type two of two. Yeah, type to fun is not fun. While you're doing it, but fun to think back on and you realize challenge yourself and type three Fun is not fun to do.
00:53:21:20 - 00:53:29:22
Speaker 2
Not think back on, but it makes for good. Yeah. No. Yeah.
00:53:29:22 - 00:53:49:15
Speaker 1
So I'm kind of wondering like, you know, talking to you, you've got like a, a nonchalant vibe to you about some of these things. And I'm wondering, you know, what is kind of your relationship to risk and, and how do you manage risk like, like what you know, do you, do you do mental work? Do you meditate? What is kind of your approach to dealing with that?
00:53:49:16 - 00:54:00:15
Speaker 1
Because these are obviously really, really challenging, really serious situations. And I think for some people, maybe naturally they can do it. And for other people it's something they really struggle with and work on.
00:54:01:16 - 00:54:08:05
Speaker 3
MM Like you're talking specifically about like just a headspace for difficult climbs and like leading in general.
00:54:08:05 - 00:54:28:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, you know, you seem like you have a really good, like good is the wrong term. You, you have, you have a comfortable relationship with, with taking on a lot of risk if that makes sense. And I mean it's all perspective because if we're comparing ourselves to stars that nobody is comfortable taking on, you know, it's like so but, but, but that's obviously not the comparison you would want to make, right?
00:54:29:15 - 00:54:31:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. No, I.
00:54:31:02 - 00:54:47:17
Speaker 3
Think that's a good question actually. Yeah. I tend to I don't do no I don't do any meditation and maybe it would help actually. Who knows. I don't know. Yeah. I don't do any meditation, I don't do any yoga, I don't do any, you know, like I think about like how I would feel during the climb. Like, I guess that's one thing.
00:54:47:23 - 00:55:10:08
Speaker 3
But I think more than anything, it's just like it's an exposure to risk that like just basically closes your mind. Like, like, I mean, like every first climb of the year for me is, is super scary, right? It's like, you know, the heights are scary, systems are scary, leading is scary. The ice is scary. But I think I'm just like, I'm super blessed that I get to, like, spend quite a bit of time out in the mountains.
00:55:10:14 - 00:55:47:04
Speaker 3
So, like between alpine climbing, scrambling, rock climbing, dry cooling, ice climbing, I don't like I don't know how many days I spend. No, per year. I'm probably I'm probably close to like 75 to 100 days total combined activities for the year. And I think that's like that's probably the best way to train mentally and physically for anything is just like a continuous amount of exposure to risk, like even like dry to like, I remember like doing a much dry tooling and being scared to like, like going from ice climbing to other sports because ice climbing is such like, like the golden rule.
00:55:47:04 - 00:56:00:13
Speaker 3
You never fall, right? So like, I trained myself like, Oh, you never want to push yourself on anything because you're on a fall. So going from that to like trying hard dry tooling was really scary for me because I'm like, Oh God, I want to fall in like, scared. I'm getting pumped out. And then it was just like an exposure thing.
00:56:00:13 - 00:56:14:13
Speaker 3
Like I cranked out, you know, a dozen or two dozen days out at dry two and cracks By the end of it. I'm just taking, you know, huge zippers and I didn't really care. I've got whatever. It's fine. So it's just I think yeah, it's just an exposure to risk it, just spending more and more time out there and eventually your mind is just maybe just grows tired.
00:56:14:13 - 00:56:21:19
Speaker 3
It's like tired of being scared. This is hard work. Being scared, Just whatever. If something happens, it is what it is.
00:56:22:17 - 00:56:27:00
Speaker 1
Gotcha. Yeah, that's. That's totally fair and makes sense. Yeah, I think so.
00:56:27:06 - 00:56:28:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. I wish. I had a better answer for you.
00:56:28:16 - 00:56:51:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, No, I think it's a good answer, you know, so it definitely makes sense. Exposure over time is 100% going to do that? And also habit building, like you said, you know, if you get out and you have that first climb and it's really scared and then you back off a whole bunch and I don't me back off like of the climbs dangerous, of course you wrap you back off or whatever but back off in the sense of you succumb to your fear and don't challenge yourself.
00:56:51:23 - 00:57:11:15
Speaker 1
And then you have this aversion and then you kind of compound that with a schema or behavior rather than going out and facing, you know, the challenge of facing the risk and like not having an aversion to it, if that makes sense. And then I also think, you know, from my own experience, if I lead ice three days in a row, the third day is infinitely better than the first day.
00:57:11:15 - 00:57:30:04
Speaker 1
Just time, environment and exposure. Day one, you're like, you know, puckered shitting your pants. Like day two, you're like, Oh, yeah, I kind of get this. I'm a little nervous. And then day three, you're like, Oh yeah, this is great. I wish I could do this. Seven days a week can just keep going, right? So it is interesting exposure and time is definitely, I think, a really big one for sure.
00:57:31:01 - 00:57:35:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. So if I'm hearing anything, it's that we all need to buy vans and clients.
00:57:35:21 - 00:57:47:17
Speaker 1
And unfortunately, yes, that does sound pretty good. I think Kyle's already lived a little bit of van life, so, you know, he's got that on me. I've never done it. I definitely would like to do it as a rite of passage.
00:57:48:20 - 00:57:50:11
Speaker 2
As a right. I did. I did the.
00:57:50:11 - 00:57:51:15
Speaker 4
I did the trailer life.
00:57:52:04 - 00:57:56:14
Speaker 3
Okay. Do you still have it? No, no, no, no.
00:57:56:14 - 00:58:24:02
Speaker 4
It was honestly a good thing. I bought the thing brand new, $35,000 and it just fell apart super quick. Just like ended up being a pile of shit. And, I mean, the long story short, I ended up going through a bankruptcy, which ended up being like, the best fucking decision of my life. And I was able to wipe away the trailer, which was basically just rotting in a fucking storage yard and among other things.
00:58:24:02 - 00:58:30:05
Speaker 4
But, but those two years while I was in that trailer was fucking the best.
00:58:30:12 - 00:58:30:18
Speaker 3
You know.
00:58:31:05 - 00:58:31:22
Speaker 4
We'll do it.
00:58:31:22 - 00:58:35:03
Speaker 3
Again. Would you buy it like a van or an RV again? And go, Oh.
00:58:35:05 - 00:58:52:20
Speaker 4
I would definitely do a van life. But it for me would be like, All right, I'm going to go like, I've got my house, I've got, you know, my earthly possessions. I'm going to go jump in my van and go road trip and climb for two months, three months, and then come back to my house where I can, you know, live a civilized life.
00:58:53:05 - 00:58:55:00
Speaker 4
I don't think I could do it, like, long term.
00:58:55:14 - 00:59:11:07
Speaker 3
No, no, I don't. Yeah, like like that's in a perfect world for myself. That's also, like, what I want. Like, don't get me wrong. Yeah, I mean, it'd be cool to live in a van all the time and climb all the time, But, like, realistically, I don't think I would enjoy that. Like, I like having a house, I like having nice things.
00:59:11:10 - 00:59:13:19
Speaker 3
I like having a Scotch cabinet. I like drinking scotch.
00:59:15:12 - 00:59:18:10
Speaker 2
So exactly. It would be. I think there are other things.
00:59:18:11 - 00:59:18:14
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00:59:18:20 - 00:59:21:00
Speaker 3
Exactly. Other things. Vodka. Do you know what I got?
00:59:21:09 - 00:59:21:21
Speaker 2
Portugal.
00:59:21:21 - 00:59:22:11
Speaker 3
This is interesting.
00:59:23:16 - 00:59:24:04
Speaker 2
Interesting.
00:59:24:10 - 00:59:35:22
Speaker 3
They have. They have something called that Medrano. Which is which? That's their. Their version of tequila. And it's actually really good. Interesting. Some. If you make it to Calgary, I'll save you some dude.
00:59:35:22 - 00:59:37:12
Speaker 1
Save yourself. I'll make it. Gallagher. Yeah.
00:59:38:07 - 00:59:58:17
Speaker 3
It's. Make it. Make it here. I'll save you some. But I think I think what I would like really like to do is basically, you know, take take six months and spend like not all at once, but take six months and spend six months here and a six months out, like climbing or doing climbing activities. Right. So but not all at once, like take a week, go for a week or two and like travel through the Canadian Rockies.
00:59:58:17 - 01:00:20:02
Speaker 3
And like one of the things that I really want to do is go up to to the like the Icefields Parkway and spend some time up there. There's so much good stuff to do up there. But from Calgary, it's about a three and a half hour drive. So it's just like it's hard to justify like, you know, guys, but oh, you want to go do Ice nine, which is like 3 hours, 45 minutes driving, and it's like, wow, like, that's a long way to drive for one pitch.
01:00:20:02 - 01:00:37:02
Speaker 3
So, like, that would be awesome to just like, take the van, go up there, spend a week up there. You because you can get StarLink for like, like you can get the satellite, like the dish, put it on the top of your van and then you still have like so I could still work from from my van. So it's not like I'm taking a week off and I'm just gone.
01:00:37:10 - 01:00:51:21
Speaker 3
Like, you could set it up so you can, like, go out. You could still, you know, upload video, edit things, you know, reply to emails, etc., etc.. Take phone calls or, you know, data and be on your way. So I think like in a perfect world, that's that's how I would like to do it.
01:00:53:09 - 01:01:05:16
Speaker 1
That's fascinating, man. I've never thought of the StarLink thing before. That's really interesting. I guess you know, what is five, ten years from now, like there's going to be access to wi fi everywhere, you know, better access. I think it's interesting how those changes will happen.
01:01:05:16 - 01:01:06:11
Speaker 3
I hope not.
01:01:06:11 - 01:01:14:22
Speaker 1
Everyone probably I mean, I guess with StarLink it's hypothetically already there if you're paying for the service, right? Yeah, I'm.
01:01:15:06 - 01:01:18:03
Speaker 3
Have you seen have you seen one of those One of the trains?
01:01:18:22 - 01:01:20:17
Speaker 4
Yes, bro.
01:01:20:20 - 01:01:23:07
Speaker 1
Dude in the sky you're talking about.
01:01:23:19 - 01:01:24:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:01:24:12 - 01:01:41:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. When we were when we were climbing Rainier, it was like, I don't know, It must have been like 2:02 p.m., you know, because we'd left at midnight to go summit and half were we're probably like a couple of hours from the summit, you know, on the side of Rainier. And we were looking in the sky and there's just like this massive white tree.
01:01:41:04 - 01:01:55:19
Speaker 1
I was like, Is this like an alien ship? I was like, What's going on right now? Super confused. I had no idea. And I'd never heard of the StarLink, you know, like satellite train. Yeah. And yeah. And eventually we realized, like, that has to be a satellite. Yeah, it was bizarre.
01:01:55:19 - 01:01:58:04
Speaker 3
And you saw it. You saw it in the daytime?
01:01:58:04 - 01:02:11:22
Speaker 1
No. Nighttime. Nighttime, like 4000 meters, you know, And. Yeah, it was. It was. It was really crazy. It was really weird. Yeah. You know, I was like, one second you're, like, climbing Rainier in the next second, you're contemplating aliens?
01:02:13:10 - 01:02:15:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, dude. Yeah, I was.
01:02:16:02 - 01:02:35:13
Speaker 4
I was lying on a beach in Albania. It's like I had smoked some weed, and I'm just, like, sitting looking at the stars. And all of a sudden, these, like. Like you said, a train of lights just, like, come out of the darkness. Yeah. And just like all they babble, they all wobble and babble, just like through the sky on a line, and then they disappear again.
01:02:35:15 - 01:02:40:21
Speaker 4
It was like the trippy thing. And then they all came back in a different direction. It was, like, is so nuts, so bizarre.
01:02:40:21 - 01:02:55:06
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's. That's trippy. Yeah, I had it. I was. I was doing a Cinnabon and we were just Vivian on, like, the Cole, and, like, I had serious anxiety when it happened because I had no idea what. And I was like, Are these aliens, are we getting invaded right now happens.
01:02:55:06 - 01:02:56:06
Speaker 2
And I'm like, on the side.
01:02:59:08 - 01:03:03:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's pretty trippy, though, if you've never seen it before, because it's just like it is there in like perfect symmetry and it's just like.
01:03:03:20 - 01:03:05:18
Speaker 2
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Yeah.
01:03:06:04 - 01:03:20:09
Speaker 1
That's what was so bizarre about it was this imagery and the consistency of the lights and you're just like, This is really bizarre. Yeah. I'm wondering, Phil, have you ever soloed before? I think you have, right. We discuss that briefly. Yeah. Like.
01:03:21:03 - 01:03:21:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:03:21:11 - 01:03:31:22
Speaker 1
What made you like what made you interested in that experience and what were like the considerations you took, you know, deciding to do that and, and how much of it have you done, I guess.
01:03:33:02 - 01:03:34:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's a good question. Um.
01:03:35:18 - 01:03:37:01
Speaker 2
I guess, like, do.
01:03:37:08 - 01:03:39:13
Speaker 3
I know if this is going to sound like terrible or not.
01:03:39:18 - 01:03:40:17
Speaker 2
Mean like, so I.
01:03:40:17 - 01:04:08:22
Speaker 3
Don't, I don't love, like, I don't love the act of soloing for, like, the act of, like being without a rope, right? Like, that's not what, what draws me to soloing, what draws me to soloing is just like being by myself in the mountains. Like, that's what I really love to do, right? So, like, if I can go out and, like, do some type of climb, some type of, like, climb or some type of like, and I think that just came from like, maybe it's just who I am, right?
01:04:08:22 - 01:04:28:17
Speaker 3
Like going from like scrambling, like I did those 60 scrambles in that summer, like just by myself, right? So like, every day I was just like I drove up by myself, you know, did the climb by myself, you know, depending on what kind of wise or what scramble wise, I was, you know, usually alone. And so, like, that's really what allured me to start doing some soloing.
01:04:28:17 - 01:04:49:16
Speaker 3
And I haven't done a ton of it. I think maybe I've done, let's say, ten or 15 routes and I've done a combination of like pure soloing, I suppose. And then I've also done rope soloing, like for more difficult routes. But for me it's, it's more like, like I don't like, get a thrill. It's like, Oh, this is awesome because I don't have a rope.
01:04:49:18 - 01:04:51:11
Speaker 3
It's like, totally. You know, that's.
01:04:51:18 - 01:04:52:00
Speaker 2
Not.
01:04:52:00 - 01:05:15:01
Speaker 3
Really, like, what does it for me, Really does it for me is just like, I don't know, I, I feel like the experience of just like going out by yourself is a lot deeper than going out with a partner. It's just like I feel like you connect with yourself a lot better and you like, push through environments differently and it's just like, I don't know, it's just like way I'm way more interested in doing things in the mountains by myself.
01:05:15:20 - 01:05:30:11
Speaker 3
Like not all the time. Like for sure, I still like to go with people sometimes, but there's I get this itch definitely where it's just like I want to drive out by myself. I just like, I don't want to see anyone on the walk in, you know? I don't I won't be on the climb with anyone else and just want to have this whole experience myself.
01:05:31:08 - 01:05:43:23
Speaker 3
So yeah. So that's, that's really kind of and I don't know what started it, to be honest with you. I think like, I think just like a couple of times I was like, I don't want to go out with anyone, you know? I was just like, I don't really want to go this person or that person. Like, I want to, like, force this.
01:05:44:05 - 01:06:00:03
Speaker 3
Like, I would just be like a force conversation that like, you know, maybe our friendship is kind of awkward. Like it's kind of just built on climbing and not like a real friendship. It's just like we have awkward, like, banter all the way there that I'm like, not really interested. And I'm like, You know what? I'd rather just go out by myself and do that.
01:06:00:21 - 01:06:01:11
Speaker 3
So yeah.
01:06:01:11 - 01:06:01:23
Speaker 2
And nothing.
01:06:02:00 - 01:06:20:19
Speaker 3
Like, I don't know if I like, have any specific preparations for it. The first, the first few were definitely like kind of weird to like mentally, you know, get into it because it was like, Oh, this is like, this is quite a bit now. It's like just me. But I like, I started on, like some easier routes, you know, just to like, kind of get a better idea for it.
01:06:21:00 - 01:06:48:00
Speaker 3
And then Rob soloing actually, like I only recently started that last summer and, and did I was like, that's even cooler because then it's like you still get all the safety of, of climbing, you know, maybe not to the furthest extent but you know, if you set everything up properly and there's still a lot that can go wrong with Rob soloing but, but then it like still like you still combine all those things together, you still get like a lot of the safety and you combine that with the ability that you get to be alone, which is like the super awesome.
01:06:48:07 - 01:07:10:11
Speaker 3
Like I'm super interested in that and like probably the best trip that I did last year was I went into the Ghost in the summer and I just like I went by myself and like brought a tent and like all my gear and I just like, put out my tent and like, got all my food ready. And then I just like, I would wake up and like, just go and like rope solo, a bunch of rock outs and then like, come back and like, stay by my campfire by myself and read a book.
01:07:10:11 - 01:07:26:06
Speaker 3
And then I was there for like a week. And it was just like this transformative experience was like, Oh my God, like, this is what it's about. Like, this is like, really what like drives my passion and like, drives me forward in my life. So yeah, yeah. So it was, it was I can't remember your question was, but.
01:07:26:11 - 01:07:28:13
Speaker 1
I feel like you did a good job of answering it.
01:07:28:19 - 01:07:30:22
Speaker 2
Yeah What's, what's the.
01:07:30:22 - 01:07:41:11
Speaker 1
System you're running for? For rope. So like, we don't need to get like, too into the nitty gritty and construction stuff. Totally fine. We can leave that. But like, the actual system you're running for, for the rope itself, Like, what do you. What do you do?
01:07:42:14 - 01:07:47:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'll put like a, like a giant asterisks and like a disclaimer.
01:07:47:04 - 01:07:48:16
Speaker 2
Like, don't of course don't do.
01:07:48:16 - 01:07:49:04
Speaker 3
Anything that.
01:07:49:09 - 01:07:50:16
Speaker 1
The, the net of this is advice.
01:07:50:16 - 01:07:52:11
Speaker 2
It's night None of this.
01:07:52:11 - 01:08:04:21
Speaker 3
None of this is advice. I'm just using like a standard Gregory with a michael Jackson for for cash management that I'll throw like a not in every once in a while for for a backup. But other than that that's basically.
01:08:04:23 - 01:08:05:09
Speaker 1
You're just.
01:08:05:09 - 01:08:06:14
Speaker 3
Using nothing fancy.
01:08:06:14 - 01:08:13:05
Speaker 1
Feeding yourself and then a micro to pull your attention in the rope and then yeah, clipping it. Okay that makes sense. Yeah.
01:08:14:03 - 01:08:17:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. Basically just like you grab a Gregory at and you turn it.
01:08:17:02 - 01:08:35:08
Speaker 1
Around and that's what I was wondering. Converting. Yeah. I've got, yeah. I was interested in getting into rope, sewing and still am. So I was trying to work a system last year which was yeah, inverted. Gregory You know, also clipped to like a chest harness and your harness and then have you ever heard of a Petzel ASAP?
01:08:37:05 - 01:08:38:07
Speaker 3
Yep. You're pretty heavy.
01:08:38:07 - 01:08:49:07
Speaker 1
They are heavy. Yeah, but I had an a slap on the side. I thought it seemed like a really good system and, like, really would work pretty well, so I'm kind of interested in that. But, you know, we'll see how it goes. Yeah. To ask me in a year or two.
01:08:49:23 - 01:08:53:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:08:53:03 - 01:09:14:04
Speaker 3
If, if Yeah. If you ever have any questions about that. I think I'm not by, by any means an expert on it, but I did a bunch like I tried to like nail down my systems for like lead climbing as well as for, like multipage lead planning. So I did, I did a couple of things. Probably like the biggest one I did was was Hartline, and that was like, that was super good experience.
01:09:14:04 - 01:09:30:05
Speaker 3
So I think it's like 11 pitches. It's super easy climbing, but it's like 11 pitches of climbing. And so it's like, you really I started to like nail down my systems of like, what do I do at the anchor? You know, what things would I change? Like, how do ropes get stuck? You know, it's it's not even that much experience, but it is a little bit.
01:09:30:05 - 01:09:34:04
Speaker 3
And I share a couple of things that I did wrong and a couple of things maybe you can avoid.
01:09:34:16 - 01:09:38:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. No, I'd love to touch base with you on that in the future for sure. So.
01:09:38:16 - 01:09:40:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, sure, sure. Right.
01:09:42:05 - 01:10:03:14
Speaker 1
Um, I guess like an interesting thing that I'm thinking of here is like, you know, wrote this in the notes is like, you know, how much is too much? Because obviously it's, it's an interesting line that you're kind of, you know, toying on. But, you know, do you ever get yourself into like, a place mentally that's pretty dark, you know, where you're really contemplating like, you know, like, what am I doing?
01:10:03:14 - 01:10:12:14
Speaker 1
Like, you know, you can like, obviously you can die Like, this is you can kill yourself doing what what you're talking about, obviously. Right. So, yeah. What's kind of your thought process with that?
01:10:13:21 - 01:10:19:00
Speaker 2
How are. Mm. Yeah, that's good. That's a great.
01:10:19:00 - 01:10:19:13
Speaker 3
Question.
01:10:19:22 - 01:10:21:05
Speaker 2
I this I don't.
01:10:21:05 - 01:10:41:02
Speaker 3
Know again, this might sound bad, I don't know if that I don't know if it exists for me. Honestly like I don't think there's, there's much that would like really stop me from climbing ever. Yeah. I mean for sure I've gotten in like situations I'm like oh this is FUBAR. But you know, at the end of it you're just like, Well, I work through it.
01:10:41:02 - 01:10:58:08
Speaker 3
I work through the problem. And, and, you know, I came out on the other side. So I really don't think that there's, you know, I think like the this is definitely like and we can talk about this if you guys want to on the show but I did was involved in a climbing accident with with one of my partners and unfortunately he passed away.
01:10:58:23 - 01:11:19:00
Speaker 3
And it was kind of like after that I just talked to my partner and it was like maybe like, I don't know, two or three days after that. And, you know, we were just like at home. And and she was like, you know, what do you think about climbing? And I was like, well, I was like, I mean, yeah, I'm I'm going to climb like, for sure, I'm still going to climb like this for sure.
01:11:19:00 - 01:11:38:11
Speaker 3
It was like, tragic and, you know, forever left me, you know, in a different position and with some scars. But it will not stop me from climbing. And she was like, this is actually she said this. It was really impactful. She's like, Yeah, because like, if you didn't, that's more scary. Like knowing that this is your passion and this is what fuels you.
01:11:38:18 - 01:11:52:04
Speaker 3
It would be worse if you didn't do it and like, you have to do this. So I honestly don't think that there's really anything that would that would stop. I don't think there is like a dark place, Like I'm pretty hungry for it and and I don't think I would ever stop it.
01:11:53:02 - 01:11:58:22
Speaker 1
Do you mind if we if we dive into that situation a little bit like if I, if I pressure a little bit about it like. No.
01:11:58:23 - 01:11:59:23
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
01:12:00:07 - 01:12:05:00
Speaker 1
Like, like if you don't mind like what's the kind of short version of what happened essentially.
01:12:06:15 - 01:12:29:03
Speaker 3
Sure. Sure, sure. So we went up to climb this climb called shooting Star. Shooting Star or Asteroid Alley. There's basically you go up this chute, this ramp, and then there's a fork and it kind of forks left and right and you can go either way. And so you go you cross the glacier, you get to the base to we got to the base of the climb.
01:12:29:05 - 01:12:36:11
Speaker 3
And then we climbed up this issue, which is basically just like a snow ramp to to the top there. And then you get to this. Why? So we.
01:12:36:19 - 01:12:37:04
Speaker 2
You know.
01:12:37:09 - 01:13:04:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, there's a lot of mistakes that there's a lot of mistakes that we made. And like, too hindsight is 2020 and it's like it's so easy to talk about it, you know, on a podcast or talk about it in social media and like, what would you do differently? And like, obviously you do things differently, but we got to this Y intersection and, you know, we had to make the choice and we wanted to we wanted to summit this like we wanted to finish the route and then and then traverse over Summit, Mount Andromeda and then go down like we wanted to get the summit along with the route.
01:13:05:03 - 01:13:25:18
Speaker 3
And we were already walking. We're, we're moving a little bit like slower than anticipated. And we knew shooting Star was a little bit easier than Asteroid Alley. So we thought, maybe we'll go do this one instead. And so at that point we should have, you know, looked at it and roped up. You know, like when you look at something, you can look at it from afar.
01:13:25:22 - 01:13:41:11
Speaker 3
Oh, that's not too bad, right? So I started climbing up this little gully and I thought like, oh we're going to get up to this gully and then we'll like, get to the start of the climb and, you know, then we'll rope up and we'll, you know, we'll pitch it out, right? So I started to climb up this the section.
01:13:41:19 - 01:13:58:17
Speaker 3
And, you know, at first it was just like snow ramp, you know, and then it kind of steepened and then, you know, I kept going and it started to get like a little bit steeper and. Then the quality of like it went from like snow and ice to like ice and then just like snow and rock and then like snow and slab.
01:13:59:01 - 01:14:29:17
Speaker 3
And so I kept going up a little bit higher and higher, and I'm kind of like, I'm looking around. I'm kind of like, okay, well, like when you talk about like being in a position where you're like, you know, this is this is a dark place. You know, I started to get that position, realizing that like, oh, I'm like, you know, 600 meters from the ground and, you know, like I'm scratching around with my tool and like, the ice is gone now and I'm kind of like on precarious footing and like it's is now it's getting a little bit more serious like this is not as as fun as it was just a couple of
01:14:29:17 - 01:14:44:23
Speaker 3
minutes ago. And so I was kind of just like so my partner Travis was below me maybe, I don't know, ten, ten meters or something like that, maybe ten or 15 meters. And I just kind of was like I was sitting there and I was like, in my mind, I'm kind of like, you know, rationally, like, figure it out, right?
01:14:44:23 - 01:15:09:21
Speaker 3
I'm just kind of like looking at it and, you know, putting my tools around, see what I can find. And in my head, I'm like, I'm thinking, you know, you should turn around and tell him to stop and wait because it's like, you know, it's bad, right? Like, it's not good. And like, in my head, I was like, you know, maybe if I get past this part now, I can then throw a rope down to him and he can rope up for this because, like, this is a little bit you know, a little bit, you know, not the best situation to be in, not the best terrain to be in.
01:15:10:16 - 01:15:29:16
Speaker 3
And it was just kind of not like process of like, you know, okay, like tell him that. But also like, look around for things. I'm just like, kind of like formulate and figure out what's happening. And then that's when I heard kind of like a, um, I look behind me and I had saw that he had fallen behind and, and then it was like the way that the cave kind of went, he was out of view right away.
01:15:29:16 - 01:15:46:04
Speaker 3
Like within one second I saw him hit the ground and then he was gone. So I had no idea what was going on. I just like I was like, Oh, okay. Like, he's like, okay. He just felt kind of below that. And he fell on like, the snow section, like the ramp, and he's just down there. So I yelled down, you know, like a bed.
01:15:46:04 - 01:16:07:21
Speaker 3
I'm like trying to figure out, like, what should I do? And that's when I like, okay, well, this is so I'm like, do I climb up and try and get an anchor and wrap down or try and down climb this? And it was like it was pretty precarious terrain. And so, like, I took a little while, got my shit together and then down climb this terrain, which took me a little bit longer, took me like 30 minutes or maybe like 30 or 5 minutes to dunk on this one section.
01:16:08:08 - 01:16:24:06
Speaker 3
And then I got to this like the Y intersection and looked down and could see that he had fallen all the way down this this snow ramp. And, you know, we'd walked up a snow ramp on my head. I'm thinking like, okay, well, you know, he just fell down the snow ramp. Right? And that's kind of what I'm logically thinking.
01:16:24:15 - 01:16:41:07
Speaker 3
And so I start to, like, walk down and and I'll actually I'll share this. I haven't shared this publicly, actually, but maybe it's, you know, like a good a good thing to share. So I was going down, is going down. I went to go do I did one wrap down the snow, which was like, I don't know, is like a piton or something else.
01:16:41:17 - 01:17:02:16
Speaker 3
And then I went and I did I went to go do another wrap, which was directly over this Cliff and luckily I like hung on, but I basically there was like a knot, there was another knot and they were put in and then there was just like a loop of tat around it. But like, no back up. Like there was no knot in the, in the tat.
01:17:02:23 - 01:17:20:12
Speaker 3
It was just like looped around it. So when you put your rope through it, if one came undone, your rope would just go. And so I didn't really check it because I'm kind of in a frazzle now to get down and check on my body. And so I put my rope through and then I tested it. The knot popped off and the rope popped off and I almost fell backwards.
01:17:20:12 - 01:17:36:02
Speaker 3
But then luckily, like, grabbed the rock kind of at the last second. So, yeah, always check your ankles, I guess, before you go down. But yeah, at that point I just left the rope there because I think an hour had passed at that point, maybe an hour and 10 minutes. And I was like, okay, this is obviously serious.
01:17:36:02 - 01:18:01:19
Speaker 3
Like something happened. And I saw that like where he was sliding down, like his trajectory was sliding down was not over the snow it was over the cliffs. So he wasn't going down. When we climbed up. He was going down over these rock cliffs. And so, yeah, long story short, when I got to the bottom and saw him, he had fallen over these cliffs and he had hit all these Rockledge is on the way down and was he probably was deceased on on impact like he probably didn't survive the fall at all.
01:18:01:19 - 01:18:02:03
Speaker 2
So.
01:18:05:14 - 01:18:31:11
Speaker 1
Yeah wow man yeah that's obviously such a such a brutal and tragic incident. You know what? What, what was your relation to him like? Was he like a regular climbing partner of yours? Did you know him for a long time? Was this kind of more of like a meet that you had met? Like, how was that relationship out of curiosity?
01:18:33:04 - 01:19:07:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah, no. Good question. He was I would say he was like a fairly regular climbing partner, which which I guess was good. It wasn't just like a random person that I like went on like, you know, like on the very first climb with like, that would be terrible. Not that this makes it any better, but I know I had climbed with him quite a bit before we had done, you know, and like he's and this is like this is something that like I don't romantic I go back and forth so much it's so funny you know because he he was an incredibly strong climber and like he would he not only was he incredibly
01:19:08:00 - 01:19:23:01
Speaker 3
climber, but he was incredibly safe climber. Right. Like he was the one that was like always double checking my systems and our systems. And he was the one that's like, now we should, you know, pitch this out and like, you know, he was always the voice of reason. Whereas I was like, Oh, no, it's just push through and do this right.
01:19:23:12 - 01:19:52:10
Speaker 3
And and not only that, like he was incredibly strong. Like, like he was an incredibly strong climber that like, he was stronger than me. He led harder ice than me. So it like that that was one of the things that like really kind of, you know, you hear like all these stories, right? And like at the time and I've told this story before, but at the time I had been I'd been on this like weird little like mountain trauma journey or what you call it like I would climb a route and then like a couple of weeks later, someone else would climb it and they would fall on it, right?
01:19:52:10 - 01:20:07:14
Speaker 3
And so it was like I was just on that two weeks ago, like I had climbed Mount, which is like a scrambling route. And I posted on the group and then it was like two weeks later someone went and climbed it and they fell on the descent and they died. And I was like, Fuck me. I was like, I was just on that two weeks ago.
01:20:08:03 - 01:20:26:10
Speaker 3
And then the same thing happened on Cascade where I went and climbed Cascade. And then two weeks later someone fell on Christmas Day on Cascade, and they saw, it and they fell. I mean, they passed away. And so it's like, you know, your mind rationalizes this kind of thinking, right? And so for me I was like, oh, well, yes, because I'm a stronger climber, right?
01:20:26:10 - 01:20:41:05
Speaker 3
It's because I'm more focused. It's because I train harder. It's because, you know, I really make sure that the holds that I'm grabbing are there and I double check all the hoards and like, that's why I lived and he didn't. Right. And that's kind of how I rationalized everything in my head to, you know, make it make it all good.
01:20:41:14 - 01:20:58:09
Speaker 3
And it wasn't until like that my my friend fell that I was like, wait a second. Like, no, no, no. He was stronger than me. He was safer than me. He trained just as hard as me, right? Like he did everything that I did. So, like, why did it happen to him and not me? And that really got me thinking, like, you know, sometimes things just freak.
01:20:58:09 - 01:21:16:11
Speaker 3
Things just happen in the mountains that are not always in our control. And I'll never know. I'll never, ever, ever know what happened. I have no idea. I don't know if if, you know, his foot slipped, if his tool popped. All I know is that when I climbed down, there was still one tool in the ice. That's all I know.
01:21:16:21 - 01:21:17:22
Speaker 2
What happened?
01:21:17:22 - 01:21:42:16
Speaker 3
I'll never, ever, ever know. But it's just like that. It's like things happen that are out of your control that sometimes, like, they're freak instances of. Sometimes I don't know why they happen or who they happen to. Right? But like, just because then this is just some that I justify for the longest time. Just because you train hard and you're super safe and you're super focused, like there's more things to it than just that, right?
01:21:43:01 - 01:21:44:17
Speaker 3
So yeah, so.
01:21:44:17 - 01:22:11:15
Speaker 4
And so how do you so how do you handle that new realization? Because I think, you know, there's ways to go about it. You either put your head down and accept the risk and don't let it affect your headspace or it rattles you and you realize that it is out of your control. And the more precarious situations you put yourself in, the higher chance of these freak accidents happening.
01:22:12:01 - 01:22:22:19
Speaker 4
So is your approach to handling this raw, unmitigated, evil level of chance that you have been so close to?
01:22:23:09 - 01:23:06:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. That's that's, that's another great question. And again, I have another terrible answer for you. I yeah. So at the time when it happened I made a post on on the the Canadian Rockies ice climbing page and I what I said was, you know, we were in our medium terrain with an extreme consequence possibility. Right. And I said and it's time I said, okay, well I'm going to vow off all, you know, like anything, whether it's, you know, low, medium or high, if the consequences high, I'm going to try to do everything that I can to mitigate that, whether that's, you know, roping up for these pitches, whether that's, you know, whatever, I'm staying
01:23:06:12 - 01:23:12:13
Speaker 3
away from the edge, whether whatever it is. Right. Whatever I can do to mitigate that. And, you know, of course, on social media, that sounds fine, right?
01:23:12:13 - 01:23:13:18
Speaker 2
And for the first.
01:23:13:18 - 01:23:35:19
Speaker 3
Year, I followed that advice. But like, as soon as that year is gone and I'm back to the mountains, that advice is now I don't follow my own advice. I'm back to like even more. I'm back to soloing routes and, you know, high risk, high consequence. You know, I'm back on tour. I don't rope up for train. I solo approach pitches all the time.
01:23:35:19 - 01:23:36:17
Speaker 3
Like I'm.
01:23:37:08 - 01:23:38:12
Speaker 2
Like, hey, I don't follow my.
01:23:38:12 - 01:23:57:21
Speaker 3
Own advice in the slightest. And so, you know, I don't know how I mitigate that now. I guess. I guess maybe the one thing that I did take away from it is just like accepting that there is always a possibility that something could happen and just coming to terms with it. And, you know, I don't think that's like I never want to die them.
01:23:57:21 - 01:24:07:17
Speaker 3
I'd like by by and large I never ever like, I do not want to die. I want to die an old man, like 95 years old, sipping whiskey on a rocker, like hanging out here.
01:24:07:17 - 01:24:08:04
Speaker 2
I mean.
01:24:08:12 - 01:24:24:01
Speaker 3
But but with that being said, I've accepted. I guess I've just accepted the risk. And if it's something that does happen, like, what's the alternative? The alternative is not do it, not do it or be be terrified the entire time. And like the doctors are not great options.
01:24:24:01 - 01:24:43:12
Speaker 4
So yeah, I think it's like super well said. And I have such a like a relation to this and it's, it's in my own small, tiny bubble, you know, especially after the accident. Like, you know, getting back into leading five nine rock is just like this kind of same thing. Like I'm not risking death, I'm not doing anything super dangerous or anything.
01:24:43:12 - 01:24:52:18
Speaker 4
However, there's this exposure to risks that you you just have to kind of accept, you know? And I always lean on to my own ability to, like.
01:24:53:11 - 01:24:54:23
Speaker 3
Not fall. Yeah.
01:24:54:23 - 01:25:24:10
Speaker 4
And I feel like, you know, it sounds like you have a really, really tight connection with your body and your connection to the medium that you're climbing. And I think that to me, it's that relationship that you build with yourself and how you move. Yeah, that gives you the confidence to be like, I feel like I'm on the better side of the coin with, my movement and stuff, and it's a bit of an arrogant kind of like egotistical thing to believe.
01:25:24:22 - 01:25:37:20
Speaker 4
But I think that there is a level of necessity for some of the things that we do in the mountains to kind of have that mentality. Yeah, because it's when fear and doubt creep in that things, you know, go wrong because you lose that that focus and that connection.
01:25:38:04 - 01:25:39:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. I mean like.
01:25:40:22 - 01:25:41:15
Speaker 2
I mean, I guess.
01:25:41:15 - 01:26:02:12
Speaker 3
It depends what you want to do in the mountains because I mean like you could try and mitigate absolutely everything that you do. I mean, you could rope up for every single approach, pitch. You could, you know, you could, you could try and pitch out every single pitch and put in as much protection as possible. So I guess, like, there are ways to mitigate it, I suppose.
01:26:02:12 - 01:26:22:19
Speaker 3
But like, you know, then I guess, you know, the other argument could be like, well, then you're spending more time. You know, in like, I mean, like it's like, yeah, let's say you're climbing a climb that has like overhead hazard, you know, I mean, like slipstream, for example, right? Like let's take that, you know, as an example, at one point it's like, okay, yeah, we should pitch this out and put in screws because we fall, you know, die.
01:26:23:00 - 01:26:35:14
Speaker 3
At the other point, it's like, well, we want to spend minimal time as possible in this area and get up as, as possible. So the logical thing would be to solo or cycle as much as we can and get out of this. But I guess, like the best option is just stay home.
01:26:35:19 - 01:26:41:15
Speaker 2
Like that's a safe. Just yeah, like don't go out, don't go climbing. So I.
01:26:41:15 - 01:27:00:00
Speaker 3
Don't know. I think like if you're, if you're in the mountains, like, I mean you're, you're there is just like an element of, of chance and you can do everything you can to mitigate it I suppose. But yeah, I at a certain degree you need to like, I guess you need to decide. Okay. What type of climbing, what kind of climber you are as well, and then what level of risk you're comfortable with.
01:27:00:00 - 01:27:14:06
Speaker 3
And then I guess you just have to accept it. I don't know. I don't, I don't have a great answer. I guess. You know, everyone has their own different risk tolerances and maybe mine is is too high and maybe I'm going to get in trouble for it, you know, at a later date. And that's that's always a possibility.
01:27:14:06 - 01:27:15:21
Speaker 3
But I guess it's just something I've accepted.
01:27:16:20 - 01:27:28:04
Speaker 1
I'm wondering in regards to this this fatality, do you do you feel survivor's guilt and what are you doing to kind of deal with the trauma of, you know, your deceased friend?
01:27:29:06 - 01:27:58:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's that's actually such a great question. And and actually, I'd like to talk about it, too. I don't know, you know, who listens to this podcast or how many people listen to it. But if there's anyone that does listen to it that, you know, has gone through this and it's it's like it's a crazy experience and like it, you know, when it happened, I'm just like sitting there and I'm looking into the mountains and I kind of knew I was like, This has changed my life forever.
01:27:59:10 - 01:28:28:10
Speaker 3
And it has it it for sure my entire life has been drastically changed from this one event. And, you know, directly after that, I don't know if you call it survivor's guilt, but just like depression, anxiety, insomnia, like just like I've never I've never, ever, ever in my life felt suicidal. I've never I've never like, I've never like as bad as my life has ever been, I've never been like, oh, I should just kill myself.
01:28:28:10 - 01:28:47:02
Speaker 3
Like, that's never been I've never said that before. But after the accident, it was like literally, I was like I don't understand the point of living right now. Right. Like it really it like it's hard to explain and it's actually, you know, it's weird. I haven't thought about it in a while. So it's interesting to kind of like, bring up some of these feelings.
01:28:47:09 - 01:28:51:04
Speaker 3
But you, like, you become part of this weird club and it's like not a cool club to be.
01:28:51:04 - 01:28:53:05
Speaker 2
A part of. It's the it's.
01:28:53:05 - 01:29:18:06
Speaker 3
The Survivor Club, right? And after after the accident happened, I had a bunch of people reached out that had also been involved in accidents. And they're like, Hey, man, I know what you're going through. And I'm like, No, you don't. They're like, No, no, no. I really do. Like, I've been there and I had a bunch of prominent people reach out that have been involved in a lot of accidents, and they're like, Listen, man, you're going to go through some shit and just know like, I'm here.
01:29:18:06 - 01:29:35:04
Speaker 3
Like if you want to talk today or tomorrow or the next day, whenever I want to talk, I'm here. And I didn't really know what I needed. I'm Just kind of like in this state of shock and like perpetual anxiety, just like every day is just like this. Everything is just gray and like, you're just like, there's no point to this.
01:29:35:04 - 01:29:52:01
Speaker 3
And you're like, you're, you're like your life is just like, collapsing in on itself, you know what I mean? At least it was for me. I mean, I don't know what everyone goes through. At least it was for me. So one of the biggest things, actually, so like one of the things that I really went through was like a lot of insomnia and reliving the event in my mind.
01:29:52:01 - 01:30:16:00
Speaker 3
Right? Like the sounds and, you know, the scenes because it was like it was quite graphic. Right? There was there's like, you know, there's you can I mean, you guys can start to fathom, you know 600 meters of drop over cliffs and, you know, hit it like you start to get the picture right. So having these scenes in my head and I would replay this and I had a lot of trouble sleeping and I would wake up like having panic attacks in bed.
01:30:16:00 - 01:30:33:17
Speaker 3
I've never I never had a panic attack in my entire life. And I'd be waking up with these panic attacks just like sweating and like, you know, I can't breathe and I'm freaking out. And and so it's like this this constant scene being replayed in my head. One of the best things that that helped me, only the community, the community was was phenomenal.
01:30:33:22 - 01:30:50:02
Speaker 3
And so many good people reached out and and left so many. Well, yeah, they left like good marks on me and like, really Like, hey, man, I'm here whenever you need me. We can we can talk now because, like, you don't know, you need, right? Like, you're just in this, like, shut down state. But they were really good.
01:30:50:02 - 01:31:10:00
Speaker 3
But then another thing that was really good was one of the guys that who had went through a similar incident, like he had lost a partner as well. He's like, Hey, man, when you're ready, you need to like, This is my guy, right? You got to go see my guy, quote unquote. So this this guy was I don't know, you would call him a psychologist or therapist.
01:31:10:09 - 01:31:35:08
Speaker 3
What? I'm not sure exactly what what his title is, but, you know, I messaged him and he's like, yep, reach out whenever you're ready. And I was like, okay. And I had never been to like too much therapy before, but I went to this guy and, and this. So this is a very specific action that we did because like in my mind when I think of therapy, I think of like, Hey, let's talk about I was like, I don't I don't want to fucking talk about it, right?
01:31:35:09 - 01:32:04:03
Speaker 3
Like, I don't need to relive this scenario. I already do relive this scenario. But what he said is we were going to do this thing called HRT, which is accelerated or accelerated resolution therapy. I think that's what it stands for. HRT accelerated resolution therapy. And it's basically where through this process you start to rewire your brain and create different pathways in your brain it's almost like if you seen Inception, you know, like how they can put the guys in and train their brain at something similar to that.
01:32:04:12 - 01:32:21:19
Speaker 3
And so I'm like, okay, this is not going to work. Like for sure this I'm wasting my money right now. But sure, let's go, let's go try this. I think it was after like a month after the accident that I went and I was still not doing great. And so I to him, we started doing these sessions and it's actually really interesting.
01:32:21:19 - 01:32:39:06
Speaker 3
It all has to do with like your rapid eye movement and basically how your brain processes things. So, you know, would basically like do this back and forth, like he'd wave his arm back and forth and you would, you would, you know, dart your eyes back and forth. And that's the way that your brain processes basically things in your head.
01:32:39:06 - 01:32:58:14
Speaker 3
It's where your brain processes things. And so we we spent I don't know what it was maybe like six sessions, five or six sessions, and it was like we went through the event and then we went through it, you know, with a fine tooth comb. And then like, we went through, you know, everything, like all the different scenes and then from the different scenes like, okay, well let's let's focus on this one scene.
01:32:58:14 - 01:33:14:21
Speaker 3
Let's watch this. Okay, So let's watch the sound away. It's like, okay, let's watch sound way. Okay, watch this. Okay. With the watch this way and this whole time, like this is a giant of money, but okay, whatever. But then, like, little by little at the end, all of a sudden it started to connect. And at the very end and this was like, this is so cool.
01:33:14:21 - 01:33:28:22
Speaker 3
And like, maybe people that are really into meditation and are like, Yeah, we figured this out years ago. Philip I don't know why you're not on the bandwagon, but I'd never done anything like this before. Basically, like what we did. The easiest way that I can think of is like if I tell you to like, okay, don't think of a yellow school bus.
01:33:28:22 - 01:33:49:00
Speaker 3
You're going to think a yellow school bus, right? So in my head I would have this like replay where I basically, you know, had this scene that was replaying and I couldn't stop thinking about it. And what we did is we implanted like an exit sign. Like like we we had a way to, like, get away from the replaying of this scene.
01:33:49:08 - 01:34:06:22
Speaker 3
And we did this through like creating different scenes and different images and and like a different, you know, mental capacity or mental, you know, pathways in my head. So if I ever started to, like, get into a negative space where it's sort of like replay this this scene over and over again, I had an exit. It was like, oh, I could just take this exit.
01:34:06:22 - 01:34:19:02
Speaker 3
And then I was like, done with it. And it was really trippy because like this whole time I didn't think any of this was going to work. And then all of a sudden, like right at the end I was like, Holy shit, this works. And I remember it was crazy because I left.
01:34:19:02 - 01:34:19:15
Speaker 2
His house.
01:34:19:15 - 01:34:27:13
Speaker 3
And it was like he knew it worked, you know, because he's like, he's like, okay, sweet. There you go. You're done. Like, call me in six months. And I'm like, What?
01:34:27:21 - 01:34:28:05
Speaker 2
This is.
01:34:28:05 - 01:34:46:02
Speaker 3
Crazy. And I just, like, remember, I like literally from his house to my home, I just, like, cried the entire time. But it wasn't like tears of like, I wasn't sad. It was like, like tears of joy that it was like all this, like, stress that I'd been holding on to the last, like, two months. Just it was like release and it was like, I can go on.
01:34:46:04 - 01:35:05:21
Speaker 3
I can now, like, move on with my life. And I have this like, strategy in my head that I can actually actually move on from. So that like that tremendously, tremendously helped, especially in those early times. And there's there's another group actually that does a lot of this work, which is when we actually donate to them through our company.
01:35:06:07 - 01:35:21:08
Speaker 3
But it's Sarah Hannigan and she has a group called The Mountain Buzzcocks Group, and they do a lot of this work as well where they get together and they hire a similar therapist and get together in group setting. So yeah, I would say like this I was super hesitant because I had never been to any type of therapy before and and I kind of disregarded it.
01:35:21:15 - 01:35:27:02
Speaker 3
But like by and far I can say this is one of the best things that I had that I did after the accident.
01:35:28:14 - 01:35:32:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, really fast. It's EMDR, right? EMDR, I think.
01:35:33:17 - 01:36:00:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. So EMDR is very similar. The way that it was explained to me was they're very similar. A.R.T. is more of a approach. So it's, you know, one instance, right? So like one traumatic event, whereas EMDR is more like a shotgun approach where. It's like, Oh, you've had a bad ten years. So it's just kind of yeah, just, just different, I guess, frameworks or techniques.
01:36:00:14 - 01:36:14:18
Speaker 1
Interesting man. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It's just such a heavy, heavy situation, right? It's. It's really quite wild. It is, Yeah. So do you have a relationship with the family like, did you. Did you have to notify them?
01:36:15:22 - 01:36:35:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. So that's. I mean, dude, it's like, it's pretty crazy, but I've never been involved in, like, an accident like that before. Everything is just care of, right? So, like, basically right after, they just, like, the helicopter came, pick me up, dropped me off, I did a statement, and then the whole. The whole time, I'm like, Well, what about like, So I knew I knew his wife.
01:36:35:03 - 01:36:59:13
Speaker 3
And he just he literally just had his baby was three months old and Jesse named after Jess Ross Kelly, who passed away the year before, literally three or four, maybe more than 50 kilometers down the road, which is crazy. But yeah, no, I didn't notify the cops. They basically like, no, we already sent like an officer to her house.
01:36:59:13 - 01:37:13:05
Speaker 3
And I'm just like, Oh my God. Like thinking Like what? Like that's. That's. I can't even imagine. Like, that's great. Like, that's. That's how it happens, I guess. Like, you know, you would just go climbing and then, you know, the day would be going by and like, a cop would just show up at your house like, that's crazy.
01:37:13:05 - 01:37:35:02
Speaker 3
I can't even fathom that. Like, that's the Now I don't I that would be so hard to go through. But they're they're they're such a sweet family. They're probably like the nicest family. I never met any of them in person, but I talked to them over the phone. They live up in Red Deer. And after the accident, I went up there and met everyone.
01:37:36:04 - 01:37:57:18
Speaker 3
You know, We went to the funeral and they're they're like the best family in the entire world. His his sisters, cousins, uncle, like everybody. Everybody's so good. His parents. His parents are like some of the best parents. And they're like, they were so understanding and so loving, which was which is really good because like, I did have like major, you know, survivor guilt when it happened.
01:37:58:02 - 01:38:05:08
Speaker 3
And I was super nervous to get on on a call with them because I was expecting them to be like, What the fuck happened, Phillip? What did you do.
01:38:05:08 - 01:38:26:06
Speaker 1
That Resentful, angry, Blame me. Yeah. And you couldn't. Yeah. I don't think you can really blame somebody who did manifest those emotions, the situation. But it is one of those things like, that's what I was thinking with like notifying next of kin and meeting the family and go to the funeral. Like, I cannot imagine. Just Yeah, it's, it's really just on, on all levels for all parties.
01:38:26:06 - 01:38:32:03
Speaker 1
It's, it's so unbelievable to to go through it. And it's obviously just such a such a tragic situation.
01:38:32:03 - 01:38:50:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Well, they were they were like they were so good to me. Like they, they helped me. So much like they were. They were just like, more concerned about me. They were like, How are you doing? And like, like, you know, thank you. That you were the one that was there, right? Like, they're Thank you for taking care of my son at the end.
01:38:50:17 - 01:39:10:21
Speaker 3
And I'm just like, Fuck my life. Like, this is heavy. But yeah, I mean, yeah. So they, we have a he passed away June 13, so we have a reunion every year. And so I go up there every year. So this will be this'll be the third year of the fourth year. I think this will be the third year that it that had happened.
01:39:10:21 - 01:39:18:05
Speaker 3
So Yeah. And they're they're, they're all phenomenal people so it it did kind of help and make a little bit easier.
01:39:21:13 - 01:39:23:13
Speaker 2
Um yeah.
01:39:23:14 - 01:39:25:20
Speaker 1
Obviously it's just a lot to process and stuff like.
01:39:25:22 - 01:39:27:02
Speaker 3
That quite a bit.
01:39:27:02 - 01:39:30:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure.
01:39:30:10 - 01:39:50:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. I don't think there's any like, you know, meaningful or impactful thing to say or any like silver lining to it. It's just unfortunately climbing. Very dangerous things happen. You know, there's a million different ways to interpret and think of the situation and ultimately it's just a tragic loss of life and, you know, really, really sad and definitely feel for his daughter and his wife, obviously.
01:39:50:15 - 01:39:54:03
Speaker 1
And the family, their sons, our son.
01:39:54:03 - 01:39:54:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:39:54:13 - 01:39:54:18
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:39:55:00 - 01:39:56:19
Speaker 2
That's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
01:39:57:06 - 01:40:08:07
Speaker 3
It's yeah, it's you know, it's it did give me a lot of perspective, too, because, like, you're like death. Death is quite a prevalent thing that happens in, in.
01:40:08:07 - 01:40:08:16
Speaker 2
Our.
01:40:08:22 - 01:40:29:12
Speaker 3
I don't know you want to call it hobby profession you know thing. Right. But you know when it, when it happens. Right. So like like we constantly we see it all the time like it Facebook like like we just had I mean I know we had more than two, but just very recently someone died on Polar Circus. Before that, someone died in Michigan.
01:40:29:12 - 01:40:48:03
Speaker 3
I think they just fell slipped somewhere when they were climbing and fell into the lake with like literally just in the last like, you know, less than a month, I'm sure more people passed away and that but it's you know, it gave me perspective because, you know, when we look on social media, you know, we see that it's very quick.
01:40:48:03 - 01:40:58:07
Speaker 3
Like for us, it's just like, oh, you know, okay, boom, you know, rest in peace. Condolences to the family and then we move on. But like, you need to understand that that family is.
01:40:58:07 - 01:40:59:20
Speaker 2
For ever.
01:41:00:07 - 01:41:04:09
Speaker 3
Impacted like his family in Red Deer to this day three.
01:41:04:09 - 01:41:05:02
Speaker 2
Years later.
01:41:05:13 - 01:41:23:11
Speaker 3
Is still incredibly impacted and they still at Christmas time are heartbroken at Thanksgiving, are heartbroken at birthdays and anniversaries. All this stuff like that just continues on. But like our community is just like another rest. And I mean, there's nothing that we can do about it, but it's just like, you know, having empathy for the family and for the people.
01:41:23:11 - 01:41:51:00
Speaker 3
So that's like another thing that like like another thing too, which I actually want to share is the families read the Facebook pages because like you, you know that like I was reading the Facebook pages of everything that happened and their family was reading the Facebook pages, everything that they're reading that stuff. So like when you have a, you know, rock and ice, you know, magazine shares, you know, this person passed away and you have some idiot that's like, well, they got what they deserved because they were soloing like.
01:41:51:16 - 01:41:52:11
Speaker 2
You know.
01:41:52:17 - 01:41:56:00
Speaker 3
Their fucking families reading that comment. Like it's the.
01:41:56:00 - 01:41:58:14
Speaker 2
Most like, unsympathetic.
01:41:58:14 - 01:42:15:01
Speaker 3
Thing that you can possibly do. So, like, that's why I go I don't know if you guys follow me on Facebook. That's why I like every single post. I like that. I see. I try and write a post, like to the families saying like, like to the family and to the close friends. Like I am truly deeply sorry for this loss.
01:42:15:01 - 01:42:30:10
Speaker 3
If you need anything, reach out. Because they're reading that like 100%. So like, don't be the asshole that's commenting on the Rock and Ice magazine Facebook post. That's like, Oh, well, see, that's what you get when you solo. Or Why were you under the cornice that day? Or like, you.
01:42:30:10 - 01:42:31:01
Speaker 2
Have no idea.
01:42:31:01 - 01:42:31:22
Speaker 3
What was going on.
01:42:32:05 - 01:42:34:06
Speaker 2
You're on your couch, you're like a a.
01:42:34:06 - 01:42:36:23
Speaker 3
Couch warrior commenting on what you should or shouldn't. Like, you have.
01:42:36:23 - 01:42:37:13
Speaker 2
No idea.
01:42:37:13 - 01:42:40:00
Speaker 3
What happens in the day to day. And hindsight is 2020.
01:42:40:08 - 01:42:41:13
Speaker 2
Like, of course, of course.
01:42:41:14 - 01:42:42:20
Speaker 3
We could sit back on our couch and.
01:42:43:00 - 01:42:43:10
Speaker 2
Oh, I.
01:42:43:10 - 01:42:49:18
Speaker 3
Would do a billion things differently, but that's not how it happens. So yeah, Anyway, so right now I'm getting fired up.
01:42:49:18 - 01:42:50:01
Speaker 1
No.
01:42:50:08 - 01:42:52:07
Speaker 4
No, that's a fair observation. Yeah.
01:42:53:01 - 01:43:02:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's all good. I mean, the Internet, unfortunately, is just a savage place, and lots of people don't have perspective and they'll just say wild things that they would never say to somebody face, you know? So. Yeah, yeah.
01:43:02:21 - 01:43:04:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:43:04:08 - 01:43:12:16
Speaker 1
Oh man. Yeah. That is, that is just a really heavy stuff. I'm like, you know, I'm like, Oh, the next topic we're going to move on to is like, just like kind of casual.
01:43:12:23 - 01:43:13:13
Speaker 2
I'm like, Oh.
01:43:13:13 - 01:43:17:06
Speaker 1
My God, Like, how do you even how do you even transition into this after that? It's just.
01:43:17:10 - 01:43:20:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. So what kind of boots? Yeah, exactly. Yes, it's it's.
01:43:21:11 - 01:43:24:13
Speaker 1
It's really brutal. It's yeah, it's, it's unfortunate.
01:43:26:14 - 01:43:28:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we'll try. We'll try.
01:43:29:01 - 01:43:51:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, ultimately, you know, we'll just, we'll just do a little bit of a 180 here for, for viewers and try and end on a little bit of different note. And so I think there's there's two things here, right. So one, you know, the Canadian boys, for anybody who's listening, is Phillips YouTube channel. A lot of really unbelievable, amazing P.O.V. footage.
01:43:52:02 - 01:44:02:05
Speaker 1
I highly recommend checking it out. You know what was kind of like the inception of that for you? Like what made you start it? What do you see is like the long term vision for the channel?
01:44:04:16 - 01:44:08:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, I feel so bad because like I always overcommit to things, so I'm always.
01:44:08:19 - 01:44:12:10
Speaker 2
Like, Hey guys, this is what we're going to do. We're going to crank out these videos, we're going to do ten videos.
01:44:12:10 - 01:44:15:13
Speaker 3
We can, and then like I do for like two weeks and then I stop.
01:44:15:13 - 01:44:17:20
Speaker 2
And so sorry.
01:44:17:20 - 01:44:22:01
Speaker 3
For anyone watching. I watch the channel and how inconsistent I am with my uploads.
01:44:22:12 - 01:44:24:15
Speaker 2
Um, how I guess that's like.
01:44:24:19 - 01:44:34:18
Speaker 3
I have no idea why I started the channel. I don't know actually. Like, that's a good question. I think like originally I bought a GoPro because I was like, Hey, a GoPro would be cool to.
01:44:34:18 - 01:44:35:11
Speaker 2
Have.
01:44:35:18 - 01:44:52:05
Speaker 3
And I would like get some footage and like show my family. Like that would be cool. Like I get some footage from my family and then I think I like the first time I used that, we did Staten and myself and Carol did Nemesis. And so I was like, Oh, this is cool. Like, wow, look at all this, like, great footage.
01:44:52:22 - 01:45:05:11
Speaker 3
And so then I had no idea it. I had no idea I'd never edited a video in my life. So I like trying to figure out I know I wasn't movie, it was Da Vinci, Da Vinci resolve. And I was trying to figure out Da Vinci resolve. And I think.
01:45:05:11 - 01:45:08:17
Speaker 2
I it took me like I think it took.
01:45:08:17 - 01:45:10:01
Speaker 3
Me like six days to.
01:45:10:01 - 01:45:11:14
Speaker 2
Edit like one video.
01:45:11:20 - 01:45:23:11
Speaker 3
I had no idea what I was doing. I was just like, I was like, I don't know, maybe I'll cut here, maybe I'll do that. And okay, I got to add this and I got it. It was it's the worst video in the world. I think it's still on the channel. I think it's somewhere it's the worst in the world.
01:45:23:12 - 01:45:33:18
Speaker 3
Don't watch. It's terrible. But. But I think I like I just like I got that video and then I uploaded it and I think it got like a bunch of views and I was like, Oh, I even upload it.
01:45:35:07 - 01:45:36:17
Speaker 2
I didn't even create new. That's right. I didn't even.
01:45:36:17 - 01:45:46:17
Speaker 3
Create a new channel. I think I just uploaded it to like my personal channels, just like Phillips better. And I don't even think I, I, I literally it's called like Nemesis dot MP for like, I didn't.
01:45:46:17 - 01:45:47:18
Speaker 2
Do anything with it.
01:45:48:00 - 01:45:54:04
Speaker 3
Just like what it was. I didn't put any tags and put a description and then I was just, I was sending it to like my mom.
01:45:54:04 - 01:45:56:11
Speaker 2
I'm like, Hey, mom, check this out. Like, this is cool.
01:45:56:16 - 01:45:58:09
Speaker 3
And I said to like my, you know, my family.
01:45:58:23 - 01:45:59:11
Speaker 2
But I think it.
01:45:59:11 - 01:46:05:23
Speaker 3
Got like a bunch of views in like, in, like the first, like week or two, I think it got like a thousand or 2000 views or something like that. And I was.
01:46:05:23 - 01:46:08:19
Speaker 2
Like, Why? Who the fuck is watching this? Like, why are they.
01:46:08:19 - 01:46:29:15
Speaker 3
Watching this weird? Why? Why does anyone want to watch me? And so think I went and I put like maybe one or two more on and like a bunch of people watch that as well. And I was like, Hey, people like, I like I never like, thought of YouTube as like a thing. You know what I mean? Like, I just thought, like, YouTube is a place that you can upload a video and then you can share that video.
01:46:29:15 - 01:46:45:18
Speaker 3
It's just like a Dropbox, basically. Like, that's what I thought about. YouTube. It's like you can just, you know, get a link and then you can share that link and you know, you can't send a full video to your family, so just share a link. But then it was like a few people watched it. So I was like, Hey, this is you know, maybe there's something here, so maybe I'll just keep uploading and keep making videos.
01:46:45:18 - 01:46:58:00
Speaker 3
And so, yeah, I guess that's how I got started. And then I created like, you know, another channel, the different than then my personal name. I don't even know how I came up with the name Canadian Boys. Well, I can't even Canadian boys.
01:46:58:04 - 01:46:58:11
Speaker 2
I mean.
01:46:58:19 - 01:47:14:04
Speaker 3
We're Canadian. Why I did it. I don't know. There's Another there's another Canadian boy's out there and they're like this weird, like in group. And they all have, like, grills in their teeth and they're like, diamond plated t shirts. It's all I want to do is overtake them. That's like.
01:47:15:21 - 01:47:16:04
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:47:17:19 - 01:47:20:20
Speaker 3
But, but yeah, to go, to go back to.
01:47:21:10 - 01:47:22:17
Speaker 2
It's that's such a good.
01:47:22:17 - 01:47:39:15
Speaker 3
Question. It's super interesting. So I've been like I've been super inconsistent with, with the uploads and like trying to figure out what I want to do with the channel and like we talked about it, but we talked about like a podcast, you know, I did, I've been doing like these videos on there where I like tell stories because I haven't been climbing that much this year.
01:47:39:15 - 01:47:43:09
Speaker 3
I'm like trying to upload something. I did like a much shorter by two comments.
01:47:43:15 - 01:47:44:03
Speaker 2
And I'm still trying.
01:47:44:03 - 01:47:50:17
Speaker 3
To figure out what I want to upload to the channel, what people want to watch and like. Another thing too is.
01:47:51:01 - 01:47:53:13
Speaker 2
So far it hasn't.
01:47:53:15 - 01:48:16:02
Speaker 3
Altered the way that I. Right. Like I haven't it's not a production right? Like I just I have a GoPro. It's on my head or on my hand and like as I'm walking in, I might do like a quick like, hey, we're walking to the climb now look at the snow. Right. But like, it doesn't, it's not a production, it doesn't take up that much time, you know, And I throw it on my head, you know, I hit record and I climb, right?
01:48:16:02 - 01:48:18:02
Speaker 3
And I talk while I'm climbing. But it.
01:48:18:02 - 01:48:19:20
Speaker 2
Doesn't it doesn't really.
01:48:19:21 - 01:48:38:12
Speaker 3
Materially affect my experience on the climb. You know it's not really changing anything. I just it's on there and I hit record. Right. But then it's like, you know, as we get like more and more viewers, you know, and like the, the the ego in you, you know, we had like a big spike of viewers and then it kind of went down and then a big spike again.
01:48:38:20 - 01:48:57:18
Speaker 3
And then I look at other channels like if you look at like like, okay, well, if I wanted to do this as like a full thing, if you look at people that are actually really successful on YouTube for any type of like climbing or outdoor enthusiast YouTube channel, like, you know, the Cody Townshend or the Magnus memorial or like channels like that, they're very much a production.
01:48:57:18 - 01:49:16:02
Speaker 3
Like even Cody Cody's is a production. He has a film crew that I've don't get me wrong. I mean, they're skiers, right? But like he has a film crew that follows him around and shoots him, right? Like it's a full on production. It changes the way that he's actually doing these things. To a certain degree. It might be easier with a film crew, right.
01:49:16:02 - 01:49:37:08
Speaker 3
But so, you know, I'm kind of in this spot where it's like, well, I can continue to do this like, you know, POV style, Right? And I don't know how large that would get, or I could change the style and do more of a production, like bring like an actual, you know, SLR out to the, to the climb and like get really good footage and like get a drone and like, make it a little bit more of a production.
01:49:37:14 - 01:49:40:05
Speaker 3
But then I'm like, well then now we're starting to change.
01:49:40:13 - 01:49:41:05
Speaker 2
Now. It's not a.
01:49:41:05 - 01:49:59:00
Speaker 3
Climb now it's like a video shoot, right? And so it's materially affecting like my experience up in the mountains. And up until this point it hasn't changed anything. All I've been doing is throwing it on my helmet hit record and climbing it. It hasn't changed in like any way that I actually, you know, I'm out in the mountains, so I don't know.
01:49:59:05 - 01:49:59:14
Speaker 3
To answer.
01:49:59:14 - 01:50:00:03
Speaker 2
Your question.
01:50:00:03 - 01:50:27:09
Speaker 3
I'm not 100% sure where I'm kind of torn between those two things of like just continuing to do like that POV style climbing footage, which I don't know how successful with it, but I guess if some people enjoy it then maybe I'll continue to do it or going the other route, maybe doing less videos. But the videos that I do are much higher production and you know, they're, you know, you see a lot because another thing too is like GoPro footage doesn't look that great.
01:50:27:16 - 01:50:35:11
Speaker 3
It looks like you get kind of GoPro. What's the word I'm looking for? Just like overkill. That's where like over over.
01:50:36:00 - 01:50:41:10
Speaker 2
Overburdened nausea with a vertigo. No, not vertigo. Vertigo.
01:50:41:17 - 01:50:59:13
Speaker 3
Just like fatigue. You get GoPro fatigue. That's what you just like is so much of it, right? You can only watch so much GoPro footage before you're like, okay, I get it. It's a GoPro, right? So Like, bring it out like an SLR and like capture and really cool footage of like, Hey, here's the mountain in like all of its glory with all the snow and all that.
01:50:59:13 - 01:51:11:15
Speaker 3
Like, look how beautiful it is. So I'm kind of torn between those two and I don't really know which direction I'm going to go yet, but I guess the first step is I actually have to go out climbing and I haven't really done that lately. So the next step.
01:51:12:02 - 01:51:13:15
Speaker 1
So yeah, obligation.
01:51:13:15 - 01:51:32:15
Speaker 4
Yeah, it's definitely, it's, it's definitely a crossroads. I run my own POV channel as well for rock climbing. Yeah. And I run into the same exact situation you're in. It's like, All right, the next step here is production. And I actually do video production as a career. And so, like, I know exactly what it takes to make something professional.
01:51:32:15 - 01:52:02:00
Speaker 4
Yeah, and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of work and a lot of planning. And you're right, the climb becomes a video shoot. And I think that the real answer is like, if you want to go that direction, you need to dedicate certain climbs to the video. Yeah. And just accept that that's what it's going to be and make it sick and make it memorable and make it something you can sell as a fucking documentary or something and then go and do your climbs without the camera, you know?
01:52:02:00 - 01:52:17:19
Speaker 4
And it's like it is a bit of a crossroads, but it is a big jump. It is a big step away from climbing and more into video production. And I think that, yeah, the real way to do it, like you said, is to hire a film crew because then you can just you can just climb and everybody around you, you know.
01:52:18:15 - 01:52:26:09
Speaker 3
That is Yeah, 100. So that's what I have to do. I just have to make enough money that I can hire a full time film. Filmography. Filmography. Videographer.
01:52:26:11 - 01:52:36:19
Speaker 4
Cinematographer. If you're going. Yeah, a videographer. Yeah, something like that. It's going to be a squad. You'll probably have like a and a shooter, a B shooter and audio guy, you know?
01:52:37:08 - 01:52:38:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, I wouldn't mind that.
01:52:38:18 - 01:52:44:07
Speaker 3
I really like to do. I don't know if I should share this, actually. Maybe I maybe I'm not going to share it. Not keeping it wrapped up.
01:52:45:01 - 01:52:49:07
Speaker 2
Okay. I'll share a slip out there. I do.
01:52:49:07 - 01:53:03:15
Speaker 3
I do have a really cool idea that I want to do for the channel. And I think it would be if if I was able to get everything done, it would be really cool and it would be it would be like, I don't know, like one of the things that I thought was really cool is like, I mean, eventually going to get old, right?
01:53:03:15 - 01:53:06:21
Speaker 2
And not me, bro. Like, we're all going to get old and.
01:53:08:07 - 01:53:09:05
Speaker 3
Max is forever.
01:53:09:05 - 01:53:12:11
Speaker 2
Young. But I think like, I think it would be super.
01:53:12:11 - 01:53:42:11
Speaker 3
Cool, like if I'm in my like sixties or seventies and I have like all this footage and, all these climbs that I did. Like this era more than any other generation has the ability to document everything that we're doing and like what? Rewatch it and show it to other people. So like right now, yeah, it's like, cool what I have in my channel, but like when I'm 60 or 70 to like, be like, Hey, here's some things that I did like 40 years ago and like, this is like, can you imagine if we had like GoPro footage of, like the first ascension s that we're doing?
01:53:42:17 - 01:53:44:23
Speaker 3
You know, Riptide on straight Shaft.
01:53:44:23 - 01:53:49:10
Speaker 2
Was like, that would be insane to I would love to watch. And I don't know.
01:53:49:10 - 01:53:58:16
Speaker 3
Where the future of climbing is going to go and what kind of technology we're going to invent. But like, I imagine it's going to continuously get better and better and better and so like to able to rewatch this footage for two years now.
01:53:58:16 - 01:54:03:02
Speaker 2
Be like you guys were climbing in no mix. That's crazy. Yeah.
01:54:04:03 - 01:54:22:15
Speaker 1
Yeah that'd be I don't I'm having maybe this is just my layman's brain, but I'm I'm having a hard time conceiving how they're going to make this more effective. You know, these things are modern tools are so good. It's just unbelievable. I don't like.
01:54:22:17 - 01:54:24:03
Speaker 3
I don't know, 40, 40.
01:54:24:03 - 01:54:26:14
Speaker 2
Years from now, you're just.
01:54:26:19 - 01:54:27:14
Speaker 4
Going to be just like a.
01:54:27:14 - 01:54:33:09
Speaker 1
Robotic person in your arms or like metal and power and you can't get pumped and neural links in your.
01:54:33:09 - 01:54:37:09
Speaker 2
Brain. Well, that's that's legitimate.
01:54:37:09 - 01:54:48:05
Speaker 3
That's legitimate. So like and I actually thought about that quite a bit when we started when Neuralink started coming out with with their presentations and like saying some of the things that they can do. So like this.
01:54:48:05 - 01:54:48:18
Speaker 2
Could open.
01:54:48:18 - 01:55:08:12
Speaker 3
Up an entire like if people aren't familiar with, with Neuralink, it's essentially like a way that you can interface machine with your brain and alter the way that you perceive, the way that you think, turn down like levels of hunger, turn down levels of fear. And so like that's one of the things that you could do is literally just like, I don't wanna be scared right now, so let's.
01:55:08:12 - 01:55:09:09
Speaker 2
Just turn that tube.
01:55:09:11 - 01:55:27:13
Speaker 3
Off. I'm not scared anymore. So like, can you imagine some of the limits that you would be able to climb at if you had zero fear and like, I don't know, can you turn up strength? Like, can you use all to your body? Like, let's just turn up strength, endurance, turn down fear and turn up adrenaline.
01:55:28:01 - 01:55:34:18
Speaker 1
But you're pretty. You're pretty in you're pretty far in the sci fi realm here, I think, my friend. But but I do agree.
01:55:34:18 - 01:55:35:08
Speaker 2
With you there.
01:55:35:09 - 01:56:02:03
Speaker 1
So that's something that's interesting as you could be debating, like, are we one of the last generations of humans aren't going to be genetically augmented and and technologically augmented like we're already augmented. Cell phone is just an extension of your brain, but really augmented like your crisp ring, you know, embryos to be like stronger and better, faster to have better like neural activity.
01:56:02:08 - 01:56:29:04
Speaker 1
You have whatever neural link these extensions, you know, you could be there is like a hypothetical of like we could be in the last couple of generations of humans ever being kind of like a so-called natural point of evolution, right? So it's like, yeah, like with the next two generations that those ice climbers are, you know, CRISPR, they're like literally, you know, like genetically different and altered to be like, better.
01:56:29:04 - 01:56:38:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, better is the wrong term, but like physically more stronger humans like they will be that yeah, that, that's a possibility. So that that's actually something that's really interesting so yeah yeah.
01:56:38:20 - 01:56:43:15
Speaker 3
And then, and then I don't know like do we, do we call it like a true first descent. If they used some.
01:56:43:15 - 01:56:44:20
Speaker 2
Type of implants, is.
01:56:44:20 - 01:56:46:18
Speaker 3
There going to be a divide between, you know.
01:56:47:13 - 01:56:48:04
Speaker 2
We'll have to come up.
01:56:48:04 - 01:56:56:07
Speaker 3
With a new division of climbing, They'll be like natural first ascents. It'll be like, you know, flash or on site. It'll be like natural or not natural.
01:56:56:16 - 01:56:57:03
Speaker 2
Well, we'll.
01:56:57:04 - 01:57:06:04
Speaker 1
Be like the old generation who's, like, angry at retro bolting and stuff. Except we'll be like, Oh, you can't do that. Climb with Neuralink and CRISPR and it doesn't count.
01:57:08:07 - 01:57:14:06
Speaker 2
They'll be like, That'll be the new thing. It'll be like, Yo, he did it on augmented. He's a BS. Yeah.
01:57:14:17 - 01:57:17:05
Speaker 4
Like the whole steroids in the body. Like you, natty bro.
01:57:17:05 - 01:57:21:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah, buddy. It's going to be no more Natty get ready for.
01:57:21:07 - 01:57:21:20
Speaker 1
That's the thing.
01:57:21:20 - 01:57:25:23
Speaker 2
It's interesting. Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
01:57:26:16 - 01:57:41:05
Speaker 1
All right, we're coming. We're coming slowly to you. I think the end here. But what I'm wondering, Phil, is, you know, why don't you take us a little bit through what is affinity life, what is the inception? How did it happen and why don't we go from there?
01:57:41:05 - 01:57:59:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Let's talk about it. So, yeah, I mean, in a nutshell, affinity life is. Just an online marketplace for life insurance. That's it for for brown enthusiasts and busy Canadians. And so yeah, in a nutshell that's, that's what it is it started I guess it started in 2020. So I've been in the industry for about ten years.
01:57:59:23 - 01:58:19:18
Speaker 3
Most of my work has been done doing like estate planning, high net worth estate planning, selling larger policies to business owners. And then in 2020 I just said, like COVID ended all my marketing efforts for that. Everything was face to face. Everything was, you know, seminars, wine and dines, networking events, face to face, etc. And when COVID happened, I was like, All right, I think I'm done with like.
01:58:20:06 - 01:58:21:03
Speaker 2
With this part.
01:58:21:03 - 01:58:42:04
Speaker 3
Of the business, Like I'm I'm burnt out from I was running. We did like hundreds of seminars over the six years I was in that business in like Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, you know, I took I was on flights all the time. It was like it was just like a constant go, go go. And if I wasn't in front of the room during the meeting, then no business was coming in.
01:58:42:04 - 01:59:02:13
Speaker 3
So it was very much like there wasn't a system, right? I was the business. If I wasn't working, I would. Nothing was happening. So when COVID happened, I kind of like, okay, well, sweet, I have some time now. Let's take a step back and see what I want to build. And then I was like, Hey, like one the hardest things, one of the most frustrating things for consumers to buy life insurance is like, I don't want to fucking I don't want you to come to my house.
01:59:02:21 - 01:59:14:10
Speaker 3
Like, no, don't come to my house like I want to. I want to jump on a meeting like, can I just go to a website? Can I look at some options? I'm going to buy it online. Right? And there's not a lot of providers out there that have that. And so I thought, Hey, maybe this is a really good opportunity.
01:59:14:10 - 01:59:37:21
Speaker 3
And so I started development 2020 right at the beginning of COVID. And then so that was in what, March, basically March or April. And so June was when Travis passed away. So it was like this weird time where I started development and then he passed away and I didn't really do anything The entire summer was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, you know, Do I still want to build this?
01:59:38:02 - 01:59:53:06
Speaker 3
What direction do I want to take it? And that's when I started to a couple of things happened. Number one, I was like, okay, well, you know, I have a bunch of like insurance, but maybe I should go out and buy some more life insurance. And I hadn't purchased life insurance since I started climbing. And so, like, I'm in an industry almost ten years now.
01:59:53:06 - 02:00:09:08
Speaker 3
And so I was like, oh, this would be no problem. I'll just like, go out and get a policy. And I didn't realize how insanely hard it was to get a policy as a climber, right? So I like went to a company, I went to multiple companies and I'm like, Hey, because I know all the underwriters, right? And I'm like, Hey, man, here's a policy.
02:00:09:08 - 02:00:29:22
Speaker 3
I'm trying to get half a million, here's what I do. And they were like, Yeah, so we're going to rate you like hundred percent. So what would have cost you? Like $30 is really going to cost you $300. So that's the option number one. Option room two is we can just give you an exclusion. So if you did pass away from any climbing activity, anything related to that, nothing is covered.
02:00:30:07 - 02:00:43:08
Speaker 3
And I was like, no, there's got to be a better option than that. So that's when I took a bunch of time and I researched the market. I found a bunch of products that will cover it at an affordable rate and not have any exclusions to it. And so I just at the time I just bought it for myself, right?
02:00:43:08 - 02:01:00:20
Speaker 3
So like, these are the products that work and ended up being like 80 bucks instead of 300 bucks, which is still really good. Didn't have any exclusions, bought that I myself went on my way, continued to build out the website and we launched the website 2022. It took a while. It was 22 at the beginning of 2022 is when we actually launched it.
02:01:01:06 - 02:01:06:04
Speaker 3
If you've ever developed any type of tech before, they say it'll take six months, they're lying to you.
02:01:06:09 - 02:01:08:18
Speaker 2
It took way longer than six months.
02:01:09:20 - 02:01:30:09
Speaker 3
But you know, we're one of the first people to to build out this type of product offering. There's maybe now there's four companies in Canada that have the this like direct to consumer purchase 100% online model. So typically the model is you have to see someone in person or go to their, you know, opportunity night or whatever it is, right.
02:01:30:09 - 02:01:45:16
Speaker 3
Like you have to like visit with them. This is like a fully digital online product offerings. You can just go to a website and buy it online. So there a lot of things we had to figure out, right? Like from a compliance standpoint, we had to figure out a multitude of things building out API's, everything was custom coded, so it took a long time to build that out.
02:01:45:21 - 02:02:06:05
Speaker 3
But in 2022 we did launch and at the time we just launched to the public Bright It was just like, Hey, Canadians here you go, buy life insurance online, super easy, go on your way. But in the back of my mind, I was always kind of like, Hey, this is something for climbers that I want to build out because I want I know it's super important, especially for people that have families.
02:02:06:05 - 02:02:27:09
Speaker 3
I know it's really important. And to I mean, it resonated with me quite heavily at the time right with Travis passed away and unfortunately he didn't have anything and we did get a go fund me together. But I mean, like, you know, I've seen what happened with the family and like, I think we did were able to raise, I think, maybe $70,000, you know, But that does go pretty quick, right, Especially with a new family and a new son.
02:02:27:09 - 02:02:48:17
Speaker 3
And so luckily, their family, you know, is quite knit together. And so they were able to each other quite a bit. But I did see, you know, a lot of the financial impact that had on them. So it really hit home for me and it was something that I always wanted to build out. And so we started development of, you know, that portion of the website that would be like, okay, this is the product that we have for climbers, you know, backcountry skiers, rock climbers, ice climbers, etc..
02:02:48:17 - 02:03:09:12
Speaker 3
They all kind of fall into that category launch that I think, you know, maybe. q1q and end of Q1, beginning of Q2 2022. And just like the reception was was like huge, right? Like everyone's like, yeah, this is like, this is awesome. We need that. Which was, you know, really good positive reinforcement that was like, okay, I'm doing something right here.
02:03:09:18 - 02:03:27:07
Speaker 3
So Like we got a lot of really good partnerships off the backs. We got like the CMG, the HTC tab for Mountain Musk Ox as well are all partners for us. So yeah, that was like it was really cool. Just like hear the feedback from the community. Like no one was like, No, that's stupid. Everyone was like, Yeah, 100%.
02:03:27:13 - 02:03:51:03
Speaker 3
The community needs us. Nobody wants to talk about it. Like, like it's something we sweep under the rug, but something, you know, some people should consider. And I think the fact that, like I'm also a climber and this is also the product that I have on myself, like really reinforces that like this does actually work because I think like a common, you know, I don't know if it's a misconception, but it's just a common what people think of climbers like ourselves, like the insurance companies going to try and rip us off.
02:03:51:03 - 02:04:07:03
Speaker 3
They're going to try and find a way to not pay out or something. Right. It's not going to work. But like, you know, this is this the exact same products that I have personally? So I really do. Yeah, I think that helps. So, yeah, that's I guess kind of a nutshell. But what it is.
02:04:08:20 - 02:04:19:03
Speaker 1
So what are the considerations with looking at like a life insurance there? So you're saying there's no exclusions. So if I die and I'm a climber, I will be covered. Is that correct?
02:04:19:09 - 02:04:22:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. And doing any climbing.
02:04:22:15 - 02:04:28:18
Speaker 1
Any climbing activity, what about other activities or is this exclusively anything. Okay. And is the policy for anything essentially and when you say.
02:04:29:00 - 02:04:30:16
Speaker 4
Rock carvings covered pretty much anything.
02:04:30:16 - 02:04:31:18
Speaker 2
To hurt any.
02:04:31:18 - 02:04:32:06
Speaker 1
And so.
02:04:32:07 - 02:04:33:06
Speaker 3
Rock climbing and.
02:04:33:06 - 02:04:38:00
Speaker 1
So when you say when you say $80 is $80 a month, $80 a year, how much is it?
02:04:39:06 - 02:05:01:01
Speaker 3
Yeah. So that's that's, that's just specifically on myself. So life insurance takes into consideration a few different factors. So your age your gender and your smoking status. And then that's the first part. And then from that you pick a face amounts, you know, 100,000 up to $1,000,000. And then you pick a term length as well. So it could be a term ten to term 20 or term 25.
02:05:01:06 - 02:05:08:19
Speaker 3
So all of those different variables will will impact what your specific premium will be. So $80 was just for myself.
02:05:09:03 - 02:05:09:16
Speaker 1
Okay. Yeah.
02:05:09:22 - 02:05:11:08
Speaker 3
Okay. Yeah, that was monthly budget.
02:05:11:09 - 02:05:25:19
Speaker 1
Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I never makes sense for sure. And so. Okay, what's the consideration? Like I'm I'm, you know, I'm 29 years young, we'll say, and, you know, level 29. Do I need life insurance?
02:05:27:05 - 02:05:28:20
Speaker 3
I. Are you married?
02:05:28:22 - 02:05:30:16
Speaker 1
You have a partner? Yeah, absolutely.
02:05:31:18 - 02:05:35:08
Speaker 3
Okay. If you were to pass away, would they be financially impacted?
02:05:36:16 - 02:05:40:05
Speaker 1
I mean, I live in a basement. I'm a destitute student, so I'm.
02:05:40:05 - 02:05:45:13
Speaker 2
Not in the greatest position ever breakout. But I get where you're going. Yeah, No, absolutely.
02:05:45:13 - 02:06:07:00
Speaker 1
And, you know, it is something we're thinking. You know, we're discussed like, you know, having a family in the future and all the other things. So it is, you know, I was just trying to like take take down the rabbit hole. But yeah, I do think it is a really interesting where I think as young people we want to assume nothing's ever going to happen to us and that we don't need something, you know, and that that is a really interesting consideration.
02:06:08:09 - 02:06:12:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I'm kind of like a weird insurance advisor and like.
02:06:12:14 - 02:06:14:00
Speaker 2
Like not, not a lot.
02:06:14:00 - 02:06:32:03
Speaker 3
Of advisors, like, love everything that I say, but like, I'll try and convince people out of the sale, like nine times out of ten, they probably don't need life insurance. So like IT advisors do a really good job of like creating scenarios no matter for you to buy life insurance. They'll be like, Oh, well, you know, do you have a partner or you don't have a partner?
02:06:32:03 - 02:06:44:01
Speaker 3
Well, maybe you can lock in your rates when you're young. It's like, now you're just trying to sell a policy when they don't need a policy. So like if you don't have a partner, you don't have kids, you know, like that's a just a general rule of thumb. You probably don't need life insurance, Like, just save your money.
02:06:44:01 - 02:07:03:12
Speaker 3
Don't waste your money on like, like because you're a climber, that doesn't mean you need life insurance, right? Like, yeah, you're a climber for sure. But if you pass away and no one's going to be really financially impacted, like you don't really need it, You know what I mean? Like It's not that's not a consideration for life. Insurers like life insurance isn't like for you, it's for the people in your life.
02:07:03:12 - 02:07:17:22
Speaker 3
So if you have like a partner that you split rent with, then like you guys have bills together. Like that could be consideration for a small amount of life insurance, maybe like a hundred grand or under 50 grand, something like that. If you have a child, that's a large consideration to get life insurance, like, that's really the caveat right there.
02:07:17:22 - 02:07:39:07
Speaker 3
If you have children they're financially reliant on you have something did happen then like your spouse is going to be very financially impacted. That's really the catalyst for life insurance. Now, with all that being said, we actually did launch like an accident, like a disability product on the website, which is a little bit more prevalent for people that don't have a need for life insurance but still want to have something in place.
02:07:39:07 - 02:07:57:00
Speaker 3
So if you had an accident, you know, we can pay out disability up to 1400 dollars a month and there's bunch of other benefits there like A.D and D, so you can get like thousands of dollars covered in medical expenses. You can get money for like fractured bones up to like $14,000. So it actually can can add up.
02:07:57:00 - 02:08:07:21
Speaker 3
If you had an accident and you survived, there is a product on the website that there's a bunch of different coverages there that I would that I would recommend for all climbers, because that's something that's important.
02:08:08:04 - 02:08:10:11
Speaker 4
It saved my ass.
02:08:10:11 - 02:08:11:01
Speaker 3
Yeah.
02:08:11:10 - 02:08:22:15
Speaker 4
Yeah. Saved my ass. Saved. Yeah. It's just it was a it was night and day. I was so happy I had it. The accident insurance is so cheap too. I think I pay. I still pay. It's like 30 bucks a month.
02:08:22:15 - 02:08:26:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, dude, it's super cheap. It's not, and it's.
02:08:26:18 - 02:09:00:07
Speaker 4
It's a difference between just been just heard. Especially in the States. It's been pretty fucked, you know. And like, yeah, like for me it was like the insurance was so great because they just paid out cash and so like bills in the states, they're not, there's no interest. And so like, I was able to just like leave the bills where they were, take the cash because I couldn't work because I was in a wheelchair and like be able to survive off the cash for a few months until I literally got back on my feet and could start making money again.
02:09:00:12 - 02:09:10:16
Speaker 4
Yeah. So it's like this. There's so use cases for it mean that's just like so worth the money so for sure I'm a huge advocate of tax insurance so I highly recommend it.
02:09:10:16 - 02:09:41:20
Speaker 3
It's so cheap to like yeah the the there's like basically the coverage that we have for accident it like you can get different units at $7 a unit so like you can mix and match for like 28 bucks you can get like bunch of different things. So it's yeah, I mean that's a no brainer for, for everyone for life insurance that's specifically for loved ones that financially rely upon you but for acts and insurance like if you're any type of high risk enthusiast, mountain sport enthusiast, it's probably a good idea because yeah, I mean, accidents will happen probably.
02:09:42:12 - 02:09:52:09
Speaker 4
Yeah. So with the life insurance, I know there's term life insurance, so run me through a little bit like the structure behind that. Like what if you outlive your policy.
02:09:52:16 - 02:10:12:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. So that's a good question. So term life insurance is super easy to understand. Basically pick a different length. So term ten, term 20 or term 30, and then your premium will be fixed for that amount of time. So if you picked, let's say term to term 24 to 20 years, it'll be a fixed premium. And then at the end of 20 years you can do usually one of three things.
02:10:12:05 - 02:10:31:04
Speaker 3
One, you can go out onto the market and just like find another policy at that point. And that's usually the most competitive thing to do because other policies will still be relatively cheap. So you say, okay, I need it for another ten years, let's say, so you can go out at that point, find a term ten, assuming you're still healthy, get that term ten and cancel the old policy and be on your way.
02:10:31:19 - 02:10:53:13
Speaker 3
The second one is usually with most contracts and all the contracts that I sell have a renew ability feature built in. And so the rates will be a little bit higher with this, but usually you'll execute this if you develop some type of health condition that prevents you from getting insurance on the market. Maybe you developed diabetes or you had a heart attack or cancer or something else that prevented you from going out and getting it from another carrier.
02:10:54:03 - 02:11:10:15
Speaker 3
So the rates will be a little bit higher, but that is batched into the contract like it's built into the contract that they have renew it regardless of your health. And then the third is you could convert it into a permanent life insurance policy again, regardless of your health. So you have those options and you can kind of pick and choose what you want do at the end.
02:11:10:15 - 02:11:25:19
Speaker 3
And so usually, you know, term 20 is a pretty good rule of thumb, depending on how old you are. But usually like you want to have term life insurance up until, you know, 55, 60 At that point, your kids are probably out of the house. You know, your your wife or your partner is a little bit more financially independent.
02:11:25:21 - 02:11:42:11
Speaker 3
You have some money in the bank, The house is a little bit more paid off. You know, I mean, you're closing in on retirement. If you were to pass away, yes, there would be some impact, but it wouldn't be nearly as high as like a brand new family. You just bought a house. You just have a car. You know, you're 35 years old with with two kids or one kid.
02:11:42:16 - 02:11:55:04
Speaker 3
And it's like a brand new family. Like if they passed away, that serious financial stress on, the family. Whereas like, you know, if you're in 55, 60 clothes in retirement, it's not quite as large.
02:11:55:16 - 02:12:22:20
Speaker 4
Yeah. Now I've heard a lot about people like taking loans out on loan on their life insurance policy and like using it as a way to like make more money and invest because it's like, you know, is that all social media garbage and fake or is there actually something to that? And is it are there are loopholes built in to life insurance policies where you can financially benefit from them?
02:12:22:20 - 02:12:24:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, This is this is an.
02:12:24:09 - 02:12:27:15
Speaker 3
Interesting podcast So far we've touched on on climbing and.
02:12:27:15 - 02:12:29:00
Speaker 2
Insurance and everything.
02:12:29:08 - 02:12:49:21
Speaker 3
So I actually I'll share with you I have another YouTube channel for, for my other company for Affinity life. So if you go to YouTube, go to any life and I rank out videos on this channel and I crank out a ton of videos specifically on that question that you just asked. And like just a little bit of background.
02:12:49:21 - 02:13:09:14
Speaker 3
I've been in industry for ten years. I've done huge cases. Like you just said, most of my work has been done in the high net worth estate planning. I've worked with teams of lawyers and teams of accountants. I built an accredited curriculum that's available across Canada teaching advisors, specifically what just talked about. So I'm not trying to brag.
02:13:09:14 - 02:13:36:11
Speaker 3
I'm trying to feel like I do know quite a bit about this. But in a nutshell, just to like quickly answer your question, you know, in 20 seconds or less, I would say this that is a complicated strategy that for the vast majority of Americans and Canadians is probably not the best idea to look at until you have some other things in place, like paying off all your high interest credit card debt and investing in other traditional vehicles in Canada.
02:13:36:11 - 02:13:42:09
Speaker 3
We have our RRSPs and Tfsas in America. You guys have what, Roth IRAs for one case, things like that.
02:13:42:19 - 02:13:44:10
Speaker 2
Those are just there's way.
02:13:44:10 - 02:14:05:02
Speaker 3
Less strings attached, there's way less things that can go wrong. They're simple. They're easy to understand, They're flexible. You can start paying one year, you can stop the next year. Nothing's really going to affect it until those traditional vehicles are utilized. I wouldn't look at anything of use in permanent life insurance as an investment.
02:14:05:11 - 02:14:06:18
Speaker 2
If you do get to that.
02:14:06:18 - 02:14:28:15
Speaker 3
Point where you now start to become a high income earner, you know, in Canada, like in Canada, 70% of Canadians are making less than $80,000 a year. So I would say unequivocally that 70% don't need it. But if you're above that 80, 90, 100,000, hundred and 50,000, you're starting to look for alternative investments and alternative tax realities. It could be a good idea, but there are quite a few strings attached that you need to be aware of.
02:14:29:06 - 02:14:30:06
Speaker 2
Okay, fair enough.
02:14:32:10 - 02:14:34:01
Speaker 4
Yeah. I was always something that interested in me.
02:14:34:07 - 02:14:36:14
Speaker 3
I say do a great job on Tick Tock. They.
02:14:36:14 - 02:14:37:06
Speaker 4
Yeah, of course.
02:14:37:06 - 02:14:39:03
Speaker 3
Maybe they make it out to be this.
02:14:39:03 - 02:14:46:00
Speaker 2
Like the secrets that the wealthy don't want you to know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Explain it in, like, 15.
02:14:46:00 - 02:14:47:11
Speaker 4
Seconds, And you're like, I can do.
02:14:47:11 - 02:14:51:23
Speaker 2
That. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, they're not. Here's the.
02:14:51:23 - 02:15:03:07
Speaker 3
Thing. It's like they're not wrong. Like, this is like, things that wealthy people do, but that doesn't mean that it's a good strategy for everybody in low and middle income earners. But like, they make it seem like like.
02:15:03:17 - 02:15:05:15
Speaker 2
How the Rothschilds got rich was buying.
02:15:05:15 - 02:15:06:04
Speaker 3
Life insurance.
02:15:06:04 - 02:15:07:22
Speaker 2
Like, know how you got rich.
02:15:07:22 - 02:15:09:01
Speaker 3
Selling life insurance.
02:15:09:01 - 02:15:16:02
Speaker 2
Doing like. Come on. Yeah, I saw. Yeah, well.
02:15:16:07 - 02:15:19:05
Speaker 1
I think we covered every single topic we wanted to hear.
02:15:19:23 - 02:15:20:08
Speaker 3
To.
02:15:20:22 - 02:15:21:05
Speaker 1
Kyle.
02:15:21:05 - 02:15:22:08
Speaker 3
Anything else and awesome.
02:15:23:11 - 02:15:27:18
Speaker 4
That's it, man. I'm thoroughly impressed. And I was super psyched to sit here with you.
02:15:27:18 - 02:15:39:02
Speaker 3
Yeah, dude, this has been awesome. I this is. This is like, the first I've done a bunch of, like, business podcast, but this is like the first climbing podcast and it's like, it's way more fun talking about climbing than the dog.
02:15:39:17 - 02:15:40:05
Speaker 2
Isn't it?
02:15:40:21 - 02:15:59:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's, it's great. It's, it's really awesome to be able to sit down and just have people such as yourself here and get to learn from them and, you know, hear their stories and have them share experiences. It's a really fun process and I always walk away, you know, learning a whole bunch of stuff. So I'm very thankful to be doing this and really appreciative of your time, man.
02:15:59:16 - 02:16:05:21
Speaker 1
Like, thanks so much for coming on the show and chatting with us. And yeah, we really appreciate you now.
02:16:05:21 - 02:16:06:15
Speaker 3
Thank you so much.
02:16:06:15 - 02:16:07:08
Speaker 5
Thank you. I appreciate it.