Recently I've been seeking mentorship and guidance to help improve my climbing. This can be a tricky endeavor, finding someone you trust and respect can be challenging. With this in mind, I reached out to a local Ice climbing group in search of such a person. With some amazing luck, I connected with Callum Nelson. Through our conversation, I quickly realized that Callum was an accomplished climber and UK Certified Rock Guide who has climbed all over the world. Callum and I climbed a beautiful Water Ice 5 Called Shriek of the Sheep on the West Coast of BC this was a phenomenal experience that I'll remember for the rest of my life. What stood out most was how aligned Callum and I are as people something just clicked. I am honored that Callum is the first guest to record in my home and I consider myself lucky to call him a friend. Callum and his partner Anya currently live in a converted fire engine called big red. He embodies the spirit of climbing and shares how climbing is much more than an experience. it can be life-transforming as so many of us know and have discovered ourselves
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Recently I've been seeking mentorship and guidance to help improve my climbing. This can be a tricky endeavor, finding someone you trust and respect can be challenging. With this in mind, I reached out to a local Ice climbing group in search of such a person. With some amazing luck, I connected with Callum Nelson. Through our conversation, I quickly realized that Callum was an accomplished climber and UK Certified Rock Guide who has climbed all over the world. Callum and I climbed a beautiful Water Ice 5 Called Shriek of the Sheep on the West Coast of BC this was a phenomenal experience that I'll remember for the rest of my life. What stood out most was how aligned Callum and I are as people something just clicked. I am honored that Callum is the first guest to record in my home and I consider myself lucky to call him a friend. Callum and his partner Anya currently live in a converted fire engine called big red. He embodies the spirit of climbing and shares how climbing is much more than an experience. it can be life-transforming as so many of us know and have discovered ourselves
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
00:00:00:04 - 00:00:10:03
Speaker 1
I like it. Yeah, I'll just get it in. Yeah. All right. Well, you know, to everybody who is here and who is listening. Welcome to the Climbing Majority podcast.
00:00:10:05 - 00:00:11:20
Speaker 2
And we're sitting down.
00:00:11:20 - 00:00:14:10
Speaker 1
Today with Carl Nelson. Callum, how are you doing?
00:00:14:18 - 00:00:21:08
Speaker 3
I'm good, thanks, man. Yeah, cheers. For I'm just on the podcast. Yeah. This is quite. Yeah. It's quite cool, isn't experience for sure?
00:00:21:15 - 00:00:22:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, you're actually.
00:00:24:09 - 00:00:29:17
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, sure. I've always wanted to, like I listen to a podcast and to be in a podcast is like, awesome.
00:00:30:06 - 00:00:32:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And this is you're my first.
00:00:32:11 - 00:00:41:23
Speaker 2
Ever in-house, you know, guest. So Kyle's in a couple in house guests and stuff, and I've never had somebody who's actually come to the place and set up and recorded. So I think that's really awesome.
00:00:41:23 - 00:00:43:10
Speaker 1
And I'm super stoked to be here with you, man.
00:00:43:15 - 00:00:44:04
Speaker 3
Oh, that's.
00:00:44:04 - 00:00:55:23
Speaker 1
Awesome. Yeah, it's cool.
00:00:55:23 - 00:01:20:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, totally, man. Well, you know, I think, you know, interestingly enough, like, we met through Facebook, which was like super fortuitous and really interesting, and I had no idea what I was really getting into when, you know, we kind of met, we connected and it's been this really, really funny experience. Just the parallels that you and I had, you know, that first day meeting.
00:01:21:03 - 00:01:36:11
Speaker 2
And I think we'll we'll get into a whole bunch of those. But, you know, for now, like, why don't you just start off with we really like to dive into, you know, who the guest is, you know, where the guests from. And so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself. Like, where did where were you born?
00:01:36:17 - 00:01:38:21
Speaker 2
You know, where'd you grow up?
00:01:39:12 - 00:02:03:09
Speaker 3
So I grew up in Manchester, UK, which a lot of people probably heard of, but I grew up in a little small town called Ratcliffe, and it's quite a low social economic base like and journalists, working class. It's known as being quite rough and could from there was sort of growing up, Evan was into football and if you weren't on the streets messing around, you get into trouble, you play football.
00:02:03:18 - 00:02:21:13
Speaker 3
So that's where I grew up. And then I grew up in a single mum and then my dad was all about visited once a week. So it came from a bit like a bit of a broken family. But I guess it's normal nowadays, separate parents. And then through that experience I went from school. Troublemaker, I guess, go into trouble.
00:02:21:13 - 00:02:40:01
Speaker 3
And and then over time I sort of got into sports, which I think always kept me on the straight and narrow. So having some sort of focus on a sport. And I came through this sort of background of going to university. And then since leaving university, I went on a different sort of path that's like sort of who I am and where I'm from.
00:02:40:01 - 00:02:40:06
Speaker 3
Really.
00:02:40:06 - 00:02:54:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think that's like a really, really dark side. You go, go.
00:02:54:03 - 00:03:12:07
Speaker 3
Oh, it's climb. Yeah, It was where I was when I grew up. No one but I come from climbs. It's not really a thing. And growing up I was into football most of my life and then I got about 16 years of mainly football as a 16 year old and I got really into competitive badminton. So it was like sort of traditional sports, I guess.
00:03:12:07 - 00:03:34:03
Speaker 3
Yes. Yeah, there's like football, badminton. And then my so my dad's a bodybuilder and then I got to 17 year old. I was like, Right, I'm going to this bodybuilding scene. So for seven years I did bodybuilding. I was like, really into bodybuilding? Yeah, not competing, but just general training. I got really into nutrition and the mechanics of the body and sculpt in the body.
00:03:34:03 - 00:03:56:19
Speaker 3
And I was psyched. And Arnold Schwarzenegger. And then through that I got into training and health. Then I got injured and then fitness came along. So I go into sort of CrossFit circuit training and then running. And then that led onto mountaineering and outdoor stuff. So I was like, so climbing until later on in life. Yeah, later in life.
00:03:57:10 - 00:04:16:13
Speaker 2
I think a couple of things that, that for that situation that's really funny is okay, so when I grew up, you know, I felt a little like Lost had my own issues as everybody does, had a lot of attention issues didn't excel well in school. But sports was always this thing that you know you said the straight narrow that like it.
00:04:16:15 - 00:06:16:12
Speaker 2
It gave me like a sense of purpose. I was good at it. I connected well with it. Like it was almost like my calling in life, like when I was athletic, things in my life was just like, okay, you know? And then I think Kyle, you have a bit of a parallel to that as well, too, right? Like you're a troublemaker growing up.
00:06:16:12 - 00:06:52:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think there's this like kind of common trend and, you know, I could be speaking out of turn. But for me, the way I rationalize it is, you know, a thousand years ago, 2000 years ago, like through like an evolutionary period, a lot of the skills that I have that I'm sure you probably parallel that, call you parallel like, you know, being very energetic, you know, making decisions in high pressured situations, you know, multitasking, having to channel your focus, being active all day, you know, like in a hunter gatherer society, those are all like total pros.
00:06:52:22 - 00:07:06:17
Speaker 2
You know, like, those are great things that you want somebody to have that would be successful. And it's like only in like the, you know, the blink of an eye that we have this kind of modern society where a lot of those things are not actually really.
00:07:08:00 - 00:07:08:16
Speaker 1
Not that they're not.
00:07:08:16 - 00:07:28:15
Speaker 2
Valued, but they're not as valuable anymore as somebody who can just sit at a computer and like, you know, plug away all day or something. Right. If anything, that could be a deterrent to like being, you know, successful in school or doing well. But those are all skills actually, that require like a high level of intelligence and competence.
00:07:28:15 - 00:07:54:14
Speaker 2
It's just not in the specific subset of intelligence that we tend to measure nowadays, you know, like arithmetic or history or, you know, whatever coding, whatever the thing is. But still, you know, those things all require a high amount of intelligent and proprioception and and motivation to do them and to do them well. And sports, you know, are obviously a place where you can channel that.
00:07:54:14 - 00:08:15:11
Speaker 2
So like a lot of people have these kind of common backgrounds where they just like things. There's something wasn't right but then when you find sport or you find climbing and brass, particularly as a climbing podcast, usually the inevitable end of it is this person finds climbing right? And it's like this is just like life changing event, something that's just so powerful.
00:08:15:11 - 00:08:27:07
Speaker 2
It's just like such a common thread. I'm sure there's lots of people listening to this who have experienced that as well too. I just think it's something that's so interesting to have that commonality amongst so many people that I talk to about climbing particularly.
00:08:28:06 - 00:08:30:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, when it comes like so gung ho.
00:08:31:22 - 00:08:32:09
Speaker 2
You go.
00:08:32:09 - 00:08:53:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. And you both, you know, like we've all found a sport or an activity that we want to do well in. And I'm somewhere where you can go as well and show you the same amongst like, Oh, I'm going to be a professional, I'm going to be the best. And maybe part of it is a motivation is like, if I'm going to pursue in this craft, I want to be as best as I can be.
00:08:53:11 - 00:09:13:23
Speaker 3
So it's just you might know, you might maybe deep inside you might to get there, but it's a motivation to reach high. But also equally, maybe it's like a justification of, well, I've got to earn a living. And in society, just being a climber or just being a runner, it's not really accepted as a job. Well, if you like going to be professional, it's like justified.
00:09:13:23 - 00:10:21:07
Speaker 3
I can put all my time into climbing, so I'm going to make my money doing this thing. So there's like two things going on though, the motivation, but also a justification in today's I, because going climbing all the time with no angles might be like what you do in your life. Did I mean this? I totally see that so well when we started with football, for me it was all about I weren't really into competitive football.
00:10:21:11 - 00:10:55:11
Speaker 3
I used to love five aside, I didn't like big. So in the UK we got five a side. It's like small court playing football as fast paced, intense, really sprinting around and you got so much action and you can have an impact on the game massively. So I was really into that. Then when I got further on, on go into the bodybuilding, it was all about the muscle, my connection like so of like being so folks in the breathing on film, the muscle on sort of controlling the muscle and the feeling of the pump as on a sports thing it calls it that sort of that whole experience of being in the gym and feeling
00:10:55:11 - 00:11:18:12
Speaker 3
the pump and connection. It's like you're in the moment and you can't really think of much else when you're doing that specific thing, when you're lifting them weights. Then climbing came along and you sort of put all this into everything. It was like intense. It was like relying on totally yourself, No team players. You're sort of like mentally engaged, making decisions and you're putting your physical, mental and everything.
00:11:18:12 - 00:11:38:10
Speaker 3
That's you going you online to sort of challenge yourself. And I think for me that was I've never had anything else in life that was challenging mentally, physically and totally relying on yourself where you you're the result of the decision in that pitch. Maybe not as a team getting to the top, but in that moment of climbing pitch, you are in control of whether you fail or succeed.
00:11:38:23 - 00:12:15:15
Speaker 3
So I guess, yeah, intensity is the counter. Yeah. No, totally.
00:12:16:02 - 00:12:21:07
Speaker 2
So how old were you when you got into climbing and what was the first type of climbing you got into?
00:12:21:20 - 00:12:53:02
Speaker 3
So I kinds of climbing age was it was in 2015, sevens was barely one and we're in 2023 now. So that's eight years to eight years ago I, I found climbing eight years ago but then I sort of like got introduced to climbing and I was in North Wales, which is in the UK, and I was working at school and the other outdoor education department and we took the kids climbing and I turned off and I was like, Right, we're doing the kids climbing today.
00:12:53:02 - 00:13:13:03
Speaker 3
Okay, I've never been climbing, but we'll figure this out. So we rock up to the crag and we have to put harnesses on the kids. And then the instructor saw Teach me how hands on, I'm okay. So we're putting all these harnesses on. And that was like the first ever time I went climbing and it was like outdoors, a little crag in North Wales and it didn't really get me straight away.
00:13:13:03 - 00:13:28:19
Speaker 3
But to me and as weeks went on, we could take the kids, went to a gym and we set learning out to do a figure of eight. And then all of a sudden by 2006 18, I was like, I want to be a climber. So I'd say 1215 I found that 2016 I decided I want to be a climber.
00:13:29:06 - 00:13:34:23
Speaker 3
And my first type of climbing was sport climbing on slide, which we talked about before.
00:13:35:00 - 00:13:35:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:13:36:09 - 00:13:58:19
Speaker 3
So the guy I was working with is known as a slight head call in North Wales and he was basically grew in the slate quarries, bolting routes, climbing on these dangerous esoteric routes. And he was like, right community try to climb and it's I learned how to climb on slate which is like very unique bouncy, technical climbing, no physical results.
00:13:58:19 - 00:14:00:19
Speaker 3
So that's why I stayed on the slate.
00:14:02:03 - 00:14:13:00
Speaker 2
Wow. Super cool. I think. Yeah, I know it sounds like a really cool way to get into climbing. I think what I hear Slate Head, I just think some kind of drug.
00:14:13:00 - 00:14:17:20
Speaker 1
Addiction doesn't translate well in North America, right? But no, given our.
00:14:17:20 - 00:14:38:04
Speaker 2
Conversation in the quarries and everything, that that makes a lot of sense. I think that's a it's a really interesting way to get into climbing. And, you know, I think actually just to jump back one second, just, you know, what were you what were you doing prior to to getting into climbing? You said you were you were you you became a lawyer, is that correct?
00:14:38:10 - 00:15:02:00
Speaker 3
So yeah. When? So I, I went on the path of becoming a lawyer. So as a university and I studied law, I was bodybuilding, I used to love bodybuilding and sport and fitness and CrossFit and I was just so psyched and low was like, well, I squeezed in between just to get my exams. I did my four years, got my degree and I started applying for jobs and there was just something in me was like, This is am I?
00:15:02:03 - 00:15:18:01
Speaker 3
I want to spend my time doing the thing I love and I'm passionate about. And this is didn't feel right. So I was going down that law or path. And then I went at this sort of like, I'm not traveling like, you know, when you're young, you're like, I'm going to find myself. I'm going to do this travel thing.
00:15:18:15 - 00:15:40:11
Speaker 3
So I went to Southeast Asia, did some traveling, and through that I found the outdoors and trekking and kayaking and adventure as I Oh, this is awesome. Like going off on your own. And it was like an initiation to becoming an adult, like going through school. You did all these exams. It was never nothing that made me feel like without being cliche, I'm a mum, I'm an adult.
00:15:40:23 - 00:15:59:11
Speaker 3
There's nothing. So going on adventures and making this decision is like, okay, I feel like an adult now. I'm actually taking control of my life. And then through that I even joined the school in North Wales as a teacher, an assistant. She was a I was living in the school in a posh private school and they had an outdoor edge department.
00:15:59:11 - 00:16:07:17
Speaker 3
This is like, right, if I want to learn how to be an outdoorsman or an adventurer and it's a learning skills. So like I saw an apprentice and so that's what I was doing before climbing.
00:16:08:03 - 00:16:08:23
Speaker 1
That was.
00:16:09:09 - 00:16:26:17
Speaker 2
Super interesting. I just yeah, So I remember we had a conversation about that and I really wanted to touch on that, that I think it's an interesting thing to be going down one path and just realize it's not right for you and just find this calling into adventure and into the outdoors and to just kind of gear your your life towards that.
00:16:27:02 - 00:16:46:15
Speaker 2
I, I, you know, I, I don't necessarily parallel in the same day I was in the same way sorry. I was a high school dropout, but like, I was working construction, I was like managing a nutrition store. And eventually I kind of, you know, slowly progressed and found the outdoors. And there was just this like this draw, this calling that I, I have to do this.
00:16:46:15 - 00:17:11:19
Speaker 2
You know, it was just so strong. It was this gives me fulfillment. This makes me feel amazing. This gives me a sense of purpose. This gives me the confidence to be who I am. This is allowing me to discover who I am. Yeah, there was just something so powerful about it that, you know, now here, now is now, you know, it's like now my life is pretty, pretty and entwined into this whole industry in the outdoors and everything.
00:17:11:19 - 00:17:15:01
Speaker 2
And it's, it's been quite an unreal ride to get into it.
00:17:15:15 - 00:17:34:20
Speaker 3
But I think that passion, when he grabs you, it's like you can't ignore it, especially if you're passionate person. I feel kind of like when I came up from traveling, I knew, right? I knew a life and he's been doing I came back and I've been with my ex-girlfriend for six years. At the point she was going to be an accountant, I was going on the warpath.
00:17:34:20 - 00:17:51:12
Speaker 3
We have all this life in front of us. I was just like, I'm Leo travel. I'm going to go into the outdoors and she was like, Well, I'm going into this accounting job in Manchester. I'm getting the apartment. And I was like, Well, this in a Life isn't for me. And it had to make this decision. And we got along super well.
00:17:51:19 - 00:18:06:20
Speaker 3
We had a really good relationship. I just like, I'm just going to walk away. And I walked away from a six year relationship, from my family, from my home, because this passion grabbed me. I just knew I wouldn't have been couldn't. I wasn't the same person anymore. I changed. I was working in this bank. I came from traveling.
00:18:07:08 - 00:18:23:09
Speaker 3
I was like, in his office, it's like, what am I doing my life? I just don't feel alive anymore. Wasn't. I was traveling. Something was burning. I think that there was a switch and just. Yeah, that's how it all sort of evolved. Just within a week I changed my whole life and it was, yeah, I've changed. It's quite crazy.
00:18:23:13 - 00:18:33:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's really wild, man.
00:18:33:10 - 00:18:55:07
Speaker 3
The question. So. And she's no good kids. She's not. She is in a relationship and she's not married and I think when we spoke, I think it was hard for us both. We both got along well and we was like there was no big fingers, but we will different paths in life. She went to city life and I've got a nice house and I want to solve life of adventure.
00:18:55:21 - 00:19:14:11
Speaker 3
So now she's she has got a partner and she's not married with kids. And we were apart. None of us got in a relationship like two years because I think it was like took us a while to get over it. And yeah, I don't know what if she will get married off kids, but I can imagine at some point she will because it seems like that's a path that's happening.
00:19:14:20 - 00:20:06:06
Speaker 3
No, no, that's a good question. No, I think I feel good. I think she will. I think she's very career driven and that was like her drive. So she did want to walk away from that. So I think woman she's got some position increased that will probably happen. So yeah, it's just different drives and different motivations.
00:20:06:06 - 00:20:28:13
Speaker 1
All right.
00:20:28:13 - 00:21:37:18
Speaker 3
So did I find the passion before going into lawyer or after, you know, these other questions? Are you. Yes. Yeah, I yeah, yeah. It's like it's like. So there's two parts is the answer. So I think I always knew my passion and I was aware of it, but I didn't trust myself and had the confidence to follow it.
00:21:38:07 - 00:21:59:14
Speaker 3
So I think growing up, always in the sports and bodybuilding loved it. And then I considered to be in sports science at university, and I also considered doing personal training. And there was a lot of pressures from people around me. So I was going to a gym and people in this gym were in sporty building, a passionate. A lot of people were accountants.
00:21:59:19 - 00:22:17:13
Speaker 3
There were lawyers in the there were people doing careers and they did all this as a hobby, but they were super passionate about bodybuilding, but they went to work. And there was a big thing about having nice cars, having a big house and all these things. So I was like, Oh yeah, am I to this sports science? And then people like, yeah, there's no money in that.
00:22:17:17 - 00:22:35:23
Speaker 3
And oh yeah, you're going to be a personal trainer. There's no money there. There's, there's this all of like voices around me and I have the confidence to listen to myself. It was more like, Yeah, what do I know? I'm this like, young kid in the gym pumping weights. I mean, got life experience, so it was always there, but I didn't really listen to it.
00:22:35:23 - 00:22:55:21
Speaker 3
So I. I buried the sports science, I buried the personal training, went for university. I had this sort of mini midlife quarter life crisis, shall we say. I was like, Alright, what am I going to do? My life sort of thing? And then I listened to that thing going back to, well, what, what do I love? Okay, I love work now.
00:22:55:21 - 00:23:15:01
Speaker 3
I love fitness. Right? Well, I'm going to travel for a bit because that's the thing I can do. Take a break away from society, Take a break away from family, take away break from social groups I was in. And then through traveling, you can create this figure of, okay, I'm in a book, a novel. I can do what I want to do each day.
00:23:15:06 - 00:24:22:10
Speaker 3
Let's explore. I think I started to listen to myself more, gain confidence as I write. I'm taking the leap. I'm doing it. I, I know myself more now. I know what makes me sick. I think those the passion was always there. But I think the traveling allowed me to trust myself and gain the confidence to follow the bus program totally and never regret it.
00:24:22:10 - 00:24:34:20
Speaker 3
And like I said, they've made me who I am through them experiences and taking them leaps. They were scary, but it was I didn't do it. I knew I would grow old and always thinking, what if? So that was. That was why I took a.
00:24:36:23 - 00:24:37:19
Speaker 1
So you.
00:24:38:02 - 00:24:51:14
Speaker 2
You come back from your travels and you end up going from that to becoming a full fledged rock guide in the UK. How long did that process take you and why don't you take us through that process a little bit?
00:24:52:00 - 00:25:12:23
Speaker 3
Right. So, so when I came up from traveling, I was in this bank. I was feeling a little bit down. I wouldn't say the, but I was definitely like, What am I doing my life? I would sit on the bus every day reading adventure novels about mountaineers, sailors, any event, you know, I would just sit on the bus reading that dream in like, What am I doing?
00:25:13:10 - 00:25:32:00
Speaker 3
And during this time, I was doing a lot of like endurance events, like I was doing backpacking, running. It's quite stubborn. So you have a backpack with weight sitting. You have to run over mountains as part of the army. So events and I saw you considering the forces. So I applied for the army and apply for the Marines.
00:25:32:10 - 00:25:49:17
Speaker 3
And I went through all that processing and like training and stuff to go into it. And then I got to that point, it was like, Right, you can join the Army of Marines, but it has to be in January, May, also December. So I was like, okay, cool. So said, I'm going to go travel again first. And they were like, Well, you can't join the army.
00:25:49:17 - 00:26:09:19
Speaker 3
You go traveling. I was like, Well, I said, What can I I'm going to do that traveling and then think about it. It's like, Yep, sure. So then I went traveling again and didn't go to the forces, but I came out to North Wales and joined the school. I did this sort of apprenticeship. Now those after two years of being at the school, I was like, Right, see, cake is cool.
00:26:10:14 - 00:26:24:23
Speaker 3
All these are the services of global climate is what I'm loving. This is where I want to be. So I came up a plan. I'm going to save up all the money at the school because I was living there. Rent free food was paid for and it was like a bit of pocket money. So put all the money in the bank account as of right.
00:26:24:23 - 00:26:44:20
Speaker 3
Once I finish it, I'm going on this journey to become a climber. So I stayed to money and then I finished school and I went to Central Asia, to Kogi State and to climb some big high altitude mountains. But in Yala you don't say I was going to the Alps. I'm practicing in glacier travel and even in the mountains.
00:26:45:03 - 00:27:22:00
Speaker 3
I had a friend who was also in the mountains. We did it all together. So we went into the mountains, went to Central Asia, and then from coming back from Central Asia, I was like, right now. And he's kept become a rock climber because of Mountaineer. I knew that. But I was like, I prefer the technical stuff. So I would say from 2017 I started proper rock climbing and I became qualified as a UK mountaineering guide in 2021 2003, one source of free for 4 to 5 years.
00:27:22:12 - 00:27:39:09
Speaker 3
But I've lived, breathed and climbed all the time like I was climbing all the time and everything else in life became second pretty much. So I was quite selfish and so it was. That's a short time to become a qualified guy. Boy, It was like I was living, breathing, climbing. Yeah.
00:27:39:16 - 00:27:55:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. That that's a that feels like a really short time to to end up becoming like a full on rock guide. That's it's quite an accomplishment. I think. So just backtracking here a little bit. So, you know, we chatted you you said you climbed the Lenin peak, right?
00:27:56:01 - 00:27:56:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
00:27:57:05 - 00:27:58:01
Speaker 2
Do you mind telling us.
00:27:58:01 - 00:27:59:13
Speaker 1
A little bit about this experience.
00:27:59:21 - 00:28:17:12
Speaker 3
Yes. I'll give you like a yeah, I'll give you the story. You can always pick questions it because it's quite a long story but we've been in the Alps me my friend, training and we have no, no long journey. So my friend, as I write, I found a mountain in Kyrgyzstan which at the time I never heard of Kyrgyzstan.
00:28:17:12 - 00:28:38:10
Speaker 3
I heard of Kazakhstan because of Borat and I heard of Uzbekistan. So I was like, okay, So we did some research. It's like, Right, It's a country. We can go for three months with our visas. It's a free visa, and to climb the peak is a $4 visa for the peak permit. Sorry, very, very dull. So I was like, sweet.
00:28:38:10 - 00:29:12:22
Speaker 3
Sounds good. Yeah. Budget climbing. I was like, sweet. Okay, we're practicing in the Alps. We're going to do an I am Well, I was injured. I am on the train for this event to go this mountain. We didn't really have within weren't totally knowledgeable but we, we, we worked out we needed to climb his peak. So the peaks like he's like 7100 meters and we train first and we went to exam, We rocked up and we ended up getting some taxi out in the middle of the mountains and we had dropped off at base camp.
00:29:13:07 - 00:29:31:17
Speaker 3
And then we settle for this peak and it was like an epic so of like couple of weeks acclimatization. And two weeks into the trip we were going to go for the summit day and then we both got really seriously ill and someone had been crapping in the snow during area on the glacier and no one knew about it.
00:29:32:03 - 00:29:51:13
Speaker 3
So we pinch drink in this water. One night, which happened, we were cold, we were tired, we were lazy. So, oh, what is drink is glacier water. I'll be fine. And we didn't blow the water. Then I got really ill, had to make my way down the mountain and was taken down by some people heading down to the finished on the mountain.
00:29:51:21 - 00:30:14:04
Speaker 3
I was like crapping myself, be sick. We were. I spend like five days going down this mountain, being sick and crapping. It was just so embarrassing. It's like crawling on my knees. It sounds like it was really bad. But then at the same time I was sober. I got past the point carrying with both of us and eventually got to base camp.
00:30:14:04 - 00:30:33:03
Speaker 3
And then this nomad family who were just settled there and there was a little side business like climbers were staying with them. They was like, took me in and they fed me for two weeks and gave me bread and loaves and ice food. I got healthy again and my friend joined two days later after I arrived at this base camp doing the same.
00:30:33:07 - 00:30:53:00
Speaker 3
I could see all this is coming over and there's like running off the trail, like crapping himself. And it was terrible. And we went back down to this base camp. He he never fully recovered. He was a skinny guy. I was like, still at the end of the bodybuilding days and a bit more broke. I lost a lot of weight.
00:30:53:00 - 00:31:08:00
Speaker 3
He was similar way. And then when we went back up for the summit, he got to a few days before the summit portion was like, I'm gonna day I went back to the UK. I tried to make a decision do I stay or go? And he was like, Man, I've got a savior. I But you can stay if you want.
00:31:08:04 - 00:31:32:17
Speaker 3
But I wasn't going to go on my own this summer because I was like pretty scared. So I found a couple from Sweden who were going over to the summit and Jasper and Fiona and I was like, Can I take along you guys? I was like, Yeah, sure, jump on him. So I got in that tent with him, going with him, and then we made a plan to go to the summit on the last day of the season and we went, we got to the summit and yeah, it was awesome.
00:31:32:17 - 00:31:35:18
Speaker 3
So as a long story, there's lots of facets. So yeah.
00:31:36:05 - 00:31:59:17
Speaker 2
No, I think that's like that. You know, you see so much in, in media of like this, like glory moment or someone doing something so cool and altitude peaks in the summit. But I think a lot of not that I know from experience which I'm looking to gain some but a lot of climbing at altitude is like you're just acclimating or you're carrying loads or you got giardia or you're crapping yourself.
00:31:59:18 - 00:32:05:18
Speaker 1
You know, it's like, like it's hard work, you know, it's really hard. I'm glorified work to to get.
00:32:05:18 - 00:32:24:01
Speaker 2
Yourself to that that that place, you know. And it's a lot of training. It's a lot it's a lot to put into it. So, yeah, I thought that was just such a wild story when you were telling me that to just go to to Kyrgyzstan and go in the middle of nowhere. Also something funny about climbing a peak named after Lenin.
00:32:24:11 - 00:32:27:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's like you're like some.
00:32:27:05 - 00:32:28:21
Speaker 2
Soviet era mountain.
00:32:28:21 - 00:32:31:23
Speaker 1
That's it. Just everything about it was so or so.
00:32:32:06 - 00:32:42:22
Speaker 2
Was so interesting. But like what a what it interesting experience you know, I can't imagine being that ill in like a foreign country like that must've been really, really difficult.
00:32:43:07 - 00:33:03:12
Speaker 3
It was. It was. So I remember sitting in the tent camp too, so the comforts of it and just being so ill and it's like the at 6000 meters. And so it was I was pretty sure against people. But anyway, being so l I remember sat in the tent and I had to wait two days to go down with this team ever going down.
00:33:04:01 - 00:33:21:16
Speaker 3
I remember sitting there like, and it was like the only time my wife, I was just like, Oh, I really wish my mum was. I was just like thinking about my mum. I was just like thinking about like home. And there was these things that were really like, is probably just fear and this BS So you just want it to be something that you attach to safety, I guess.
00:33:21:16 - 00:33:54:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I remember thinking I was just like, I never had that experience of being so desperate to be you, your mum or whoever. That was like, Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, it was from I don't have news of a die, but it was just like it was so because it was so I was losing so much weight and so I was trying, I couldn't keep nothing down and I just knew I had to get down to base camp for the suffering to stop, stopped and knew I needed more oxygen be in one place.
00:33:54:20 - 00:34:12:01
Speaker 3
I knew it 6000 meters. I I'm going to recover. And it was just time for so long, like two days of doing this and sitting there waiting for the scene and then walking all the way down for like another three days. It just fell so long. And it was just a when you could see the next camp, it was just such a relief.
00:34:12:05 - 00:34:40:00
Speaker 3
Like you could see like companies like, yeah, I'm there. And I remember when I got to come because I left the tent, my friend, I just well, she got into like a random tent that the these companies had them set up. I just crawled in and went to sleep and woke up and stayed left because I was so I couldn't even fathom of like trying to like so but then so yeah, it was, it was desperate times, but also it show it made me realize like, you can get free things too.
00:34:40:01 - 00:34:48:11
Speaker 3
I mean, it was like you can get free stuff. You just go to like, break it down. Nice camp, Nice camp. So having.
00:34:48:11 - 00:34:51:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. You did tell me.
00:34:51:08 - 00:34:55:14
Speaker 2
That when you got to the top of the peak, it was Fiona you were climbing.
00:34:55:14 - 00:34:56:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:34:57:04 - 00:34:58:11
Speaker 2
I wanted to tell that a little bit.
00:34:58:16 - 00:35:17:22
Speaker 3
Yeah. So just been feeling this. Swedish people were super nice and they were both, like, quite introverted. We talked a little bit and we was going at the peak and when we get advance base come to 6000 meters, we all get we got this little they have this little tent, so I just squeeze them with them. This was all in like sardines.
00:35:18:08 - 00:35:37:23
Speaker 3
I was like, Right, we're going to leave at 2 a.m. That was the time to leave. So, Fiona, this this girl, she was, like, ominous. After midnight, I like when you're own. She's like, Yeah, I was like, You shush. Like, yeah, I'm going on my own as like, while I. We can all go this way. Yeah, but I'm slower and you guys, I've it I'm no this keep up.
00:35:38:02 - 00:36:01:01
Speaker 3
If I'm going to make the summit, I need to leave at midnight. And just like she's got this, she's hardcore. It's just me either. Okay, if you are doing this. So at midnight, she gets hope, she gets in her clothes and she sets off and winds howling and it's like minus four or something and the winds howling. I going on my down jacket and down pounds and it's like being in space.
00:36:01:01 - 00:36:21:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, I'm breathing. I can just hear my breath and I'm like, pretty scared. I'm like, Why wave adjustments? Girls get ready. I'm this like, Wow, this is pretty gnarly. And this comes all like, starts off. You do a dip and you climb and climb continuously for a long time. I can just see this head torch in the distance of Fiona going for it.
00:36:22:01 - 00:36:43:19
Speaker 3
So we self and when we catch up and then as you as the light came out, the wind settled. Still really cold. You couldn't say you off and, and then when we got to the summit, eventually it was like this elation, amazing views and like a really overwhelming feeling of I didn't think I was going to get that because I was it was like really just lots of things going on.
00:36:44:09 - 00:37:06:19
Speaker 3
And then I'm like super sized. And then Fiona starts crying and like, Oh, it's okay. Like we got to go. She's like, Yeah. And she had this hair from her dad. So it was a mountain guy and he died and they were climbing this peak together, so they were going to climb this piece together and he died. And because he died, she was like, Right, I'm going to do this for my dad.
00:37:06:19 - 00:37:24:08
Speaker 3
And she brought her and sea down to the mountain. And then she he brought she brought his her to parts of the mountain because they were planning on doing this peak in I think he died maybe I think it was like six months before. And then I was just like stood there. Whoa. Like it made me feel what I've done.
00:37:24:08 - 00:37:40:08
Speaker 3
This fall was significant, and it was quite a special moment to see this this girl who was like, so driven to go out. And it was like, I just thought she was hardcore. But there's obviously a drive that she was like, I'm bringing my dad to somewhere. This is what we want to do. And she had this lock of hair and I just like it was pretty powerful.
00:37:40:08 - 00:37:48:14
Speaker 3
It was like, I mean, like something out of a film almost. It was like crazy. It was quite crazy.
00:37:49:02 - 00:38:11:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. And I can completely wild, you know, and and just I don't I don't even know, like, how, how you kind of explain to somebody who isn't a climber why you would have your dad die in like on a mountain or something and then you would be so driven to go out climbing again to bring that person to the top.
00:38:11:08 - 00:38:32:03
Speaker 2
It's kind of like this just it's just like if you know, you know, like if you get it, you get it. I understand that. Absolutely. Like what the mountains mean to me and and like, it's almost like, just self-evident. Of course you would go do that. You know, it's really powerful. I don't know. There's just there's just something about about the mountains and that kind of connection.
00:38:32:21 - 00:38:33:06
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:38:33:12 - 00:38:51:06
Speaker 3
So the energy. So it's like for Fiona does dream because he might die in the mountains, but that's what you love doing. And she was like, it's like. It's like someone who's, I don't know, say someone dies from smoking. He's like, you know, generally people only go, I'm going to smoke for my dad because like, Jim, this is a vice, right?
00:38:51:11 - 00:39:07:20
Speaker 3
Which is something that is it doesn't it might bring you joy, but a lot of people smoke, really don't like smoking when you're in the mountains and you wish your life is like people know. That was a passion. They were happy there. And he's like, you're going to you want to do that for that person? Generally.
00:39:08:06 - 00:39:26:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, absolutely.
00:39:26:08 - 00:39:38:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. It was a it was a cool moment. It was a really cool moment. Yeah. It was a it was a coach of a lot of things happened on our trip. Stuck with me. Yeah. A lot of cool things.
00:39:38:09 - 00:39:39:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. I mean.
00:39:40:00 - 00:39:48:12
Speaker 1
Just, just you go.
00:39:48:12 - 00:40:22:17
Speaker 3
So that would have been. I finished school 2016, 2016. So again, the maps seven years ago. Yes, I'm fairly warm sort of in. Yeah. So if I found clemency 2015, I learned like a lot to try to figure a way and harness. And then I started. I hope I see climbing, climbing like well, I say mountaineering and scrambling.
00:40:23:04 - 00:40:51:14
Speaker 3
In the summer of 2015, I remember I spent the whole spring in the North Wales mountains learning sort of techniques, and then I went to Owls the very first time in summer 2015. So yeah, 2016 I went to Kyrgyzstan. So somewhere in the Alps.
00:40:51:14 - 00:40:51:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:40:52:00 - 00:41:56:09
Speaker 3
So okay, so at that point in terms of climbing grades, I was only sport climbing at that point I was only so I'm Yeah. And it was only sport climbing. I learned the slide and I literally only climbed on slate and limestone, bolted routes. I remember I just done my first seven day so I just do my first seven day on site before I, when I were in like it was so I was just doing climbing.
00:41:56:09 - 00:42:16:16
Speaker 3
I wasn't really chasing grades, a training, I was just climbing. So I was like, it was new, I was learning and there's all these different routes about it. It was exciting, but I was doing a lot of like running mountain running, scrambling as well. And so like mountaineering, I would say, rather than climbing on the pole, is stuff I would do in my solo of like spare time.
00:42:17:09 - 00:42:53:23
Speaker 3
I'm really taken off the actual climbing Pokemon and it was more the mountaineering and stuff in that that's partly I'm So you asked me what grade and what type of climber, right? So we in the first season of Alpine we were doing 80 plus and we kind of finished highest we we climb was the Matterhorn which is I think it's eight Yeah it was things ADHD plus.
00:42:54:00 - 00:43:13:20
Speaker 3
So we just went around Europe like we called it like rubber rubber. Trump Alpine traveling was I lived in the car living off bread and cheese, sleep in the car. And we just basically, you know, loads of 4000 meter peaks. So Mont Blanc and my whole and some of the classics. And then the next year we went back as an acclimatization process for Lenin Peak.
00:43:14:05 - 00:43:34:06
Speaker 3
So we went for another two weeks. I took a trad rock. I borrowed of a friend and I remember me, my friend, we went climbing, we did the sport in the Alps and I was like, Right, we'll do the climbing because we're going to need to maybe no, not we don't. We didn't need to know the planning for in case we need to do something.
00:43:34:15 - 00:43:53:06
Speaker 3
So I read some books, watched some videos and I seen people chart climb. So I went up this climb and on the first pitch I got to the top and I looked down and every single book, a fall, how it was like, Yeah, it was like it was on this mountain was like, really easy. Climb in play, we're going to fall.
00:43:53:09 - 00:44:26:07
Speaker 3
I got to the top, right? So around them, I may reach to the bottom, all this gear. And he wasn't the climate. He was a mountain, a he You just like fall. You know what? Do it. I was just like, Oh, holy shit, we've got a lot to learn. So we then silo practice in place in comes bought peatland and didn't require try climb it required like glacier travel I require like fitness stomp you know with single ice dogs Scottish great too so it was like a snow ridge plodding That's where we were.
00:44:26:17 - 00:45:00:21
Speaker 3
Yeah yeah I, I think my mindset has changed is that like when I was slightly naive but also just wanting to see those like I found going through life, not being decisive and not making my own decisions, I was like, I want to do this. Why not? I think I was inspired by Into the Wild and you see in the film.
00:45:01:00 - 00:45:01:18
Speaker 2
So yeah.
00:45:01:19 - 00:45:03:20
Speaker 3
It's so good, right? So like things like that, just.
00:45:04:03 - 00:45:05:07
Speaker 1
Supertramp Yeah.
00:45:05:09 - 00:45:27:20
Speaker 3
I see picture, Yes. So just things like just the little, little things in life where I was like, I was like, you got to do it or take precautions. And I was, I was rational to a point. But nowadays I think I've come around so like, I am more and more prepared going into stuff that was then, but I'm still even now is like you got to learn from adventure in the right amounts.
00:45:28:05 - 00:45:39:14
Speaker 3
If you go too much of adventure. So if you're on a scale of 1 to 5, five is like misadventure, you can see far ones like you're not pushing the boundaries. I think the learning zones in the middle, you know, it's free.
00:45:40:20 - 00:45:49:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think he says.
00:45:49:06 - 00:45:50:11
Speaker 2
Sometimes it's better to.
00:45:50:11 - 00:45:51:11
Speaker 1
Be lucky they get.
00:45:54:00 - 00:45:58:22
Speaker 2
By. Yeah.
00:45:58:22 - 00:46:06:00
Speaker 3
So maybe our. Burgess Did you say, did you tell me what these guys are.
00:46:06:01 - 00:46:07:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. We talked about it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think he.
00:46:07:23 - 00:46:08:20
Speaker 1
Knew who they were.
00:46:08:20 - 00:46:09:14
Speaker 3
I didn't know.
00:46:09:14 - 00:46:10:00
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:46:10:23 - 00:46:12:01
Speaker 3
It was his group. It wasn't?
00:46:12:10 - 00:46:15:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:46:15:14 - 00:46:27:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. Now, So tell me about the supervision. It's like they. They were just like, we're not on the bench. So they didn't, they didn't have, like, training and stuff like that. Right? They were just.
00:46:28:05 - 00:46:47:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. Just wild, you know, start in the era where it's like machine bolts and before, like official trad gear and hip blades and climbing in the Alps and, you know, I think they had the first ascent of Polar Circus in the Canadian Rockies over like eight days. And, you know, climbing like Everest in, in winter, like, and stuff like that.
00:46:47:07 - 00:47:06:23
Speaker 2
Just like, just wild. But he's, he's such a character. He just has like the spirit of a 30 year old in like a 75 year old man's body who is, like, ripped out of his mind. I don't even know. The guy's in better shape than I am, you know, And he's like 75 or something. Like, I don't even get it, you know, some some are built different.
00:47:06:23 - 00:47:14:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, man. No. Yeah, I'll.
00:47:14:05 - 00:47:31:05
Speaker 1
Go. Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.
00:47:31:05 - 00:47:55:17
Speaker 3
Also pin like you actually mentioned in your podcast outro, the Spanish climbing venue where he's like with spice stomping ground. So Incivek was in 16 at the end that came up from Kyrgyzstan and I was going home, but I had a bit of money last as I right. I'm going to, I'm going to go to Italy and good food, good wine, nice mountains.
00:47:55:17 - 00:48:18:04
Speaker 3
And I thought I'll do a bit of a sport climbing trip in the know Tiber and I'm going to. And so I was hitchhiking on obviously the climate didn't go so well because I couldn't find partner so easily, but I was having good wine and good times into the bad climate. And then I went to El Cerrito on a school trip years ago as I right.
00:48:18:04 - 00:48:37:01
Speaker 3
I'm going to contact the hostel that it was a hostel and I'm going to try and get a job there for the winter in British Windsor and in L.A. it's like something in the winter. So I was like, I contacted the hostels like, Yeah, if you get yourself a you've got a job for the winter, you can be the barman and do some climbing, going and as a sweet.
00:48:37:11 - 00:48:57:00
Speaker 3
So I hitchhiked over to Spain, I got to Spain and I spent the season in Spain living in this like old caravan in the in the car park. And then Pim came through a friend and was like, oh, I was like challenged him in the bar and we just got changed. And he was just doing some more pictures of a friend.
00:48:57:11 - 00:49:14:10
Speaker 3
And I was like, Still fresh water, honey. It's like just going to climb in. And he was like, Yeah, I live in Dorset in the UK. If you ever come on over when you think of Spain, hit me off and we'll go climb. And I was like, Sweet. Then my partner, my girlfriend, she came for at the time she was and then she came and volunteered out in the hostel.
00:49:15:00 - 00:49:33:20
Speaker 3
I met this girl and we hit it off and she's like, Oh, I live in Dorset. I said, Oh, really? I know I got permission. Well, if you come and visit me, it's like I'm maybe I can go. And so I went and visit Ania and we promised as a payment the crag. And then from that point on we went climbing together and we've climbed quite a bit in the UK and it was a really nice dude.
00:49:33:20 - 00:49:34:10
Speaker 3
He's awesome.
00:49:34:21 - 00:49:35:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:49:35:09 - 00:49:36:09
Speaker 3
He's a super cool guy.
00:49:36:22 - 00:49:57:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, he's this really, really sweet guy. I found that just so I don't even know, like, I feel like somebody he can logic out or mathematics of like finding the coincidence in something and making sense of it. But to me, the idea that, you know, Kyle and I met, it's so unlikely. You know, he's in Reno, Nevada, I'm in Vancouver.
00:49:57:06 - 00:50:04:06
Speaker 2
We both break each other's ankles and we start this podcast and James Pim breaks his ankle and then reaches out to us and we interview him.
00:50:04:11 - 00:50:08:11
Speaker 1
And then you're here in Canada and you know Pim, and somehow you're in.
00:50:08:11 - 00:50:11:00
Speaker 2
My house drinking beers with me. Having this podcast is just.
00:50:11:00 - 00:50:14:22
Speaker 1
Like it's like it's so it's so bizarre, like how small and.
00:50:14:22 - 00:50:16:00
Speaker 2
Connected the world is.
00:50:16:00 - 00:50:17:17
Speaker 1
In some ways sometimes, you know, like.
00:50:18:00 - 00:50:20:23
Speaker 2
That just seems like my mind is blown at that fact that you're.
00:50:20:23 - 00:50:24:03
Speaker 1
Like, yeah, like I him as a good friend of mine, like we climb.
00:50:24:03 - 00:50:28:01
Speaker 2
It's like, wow, like really, really unbelievable. Yeah, it's crazy.
00:50:28:04 - 00:50:37:02
Speaker 3
It's such a small knit community, isn't it? It's a big world, but the climbing community and having a community like that, it's just it's amazing. You have these connections. It's really cool.
00:50:37:15 - 00:50:42:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. 100%. Yeah.
00:50:42:21 - 00:51:17:16
Speaker 3
So how is it when? So when I was looking for you guys podcasts, I was listening to a NOVA episode and it mentioned, I think you might mention, Oh, you're really guest coaching is permanently no way development. So I like listening to it. And the synthesis said to be features programing like call him like up in the I spoke to and I'll see how he's doing and the last time I saw him I actually haven't seen as he broke his ankle because I've been away for I saw him, I think he was he was like working a job in the say which seemed him in like city gear was quite unusual.
00:51:17:16 - 00:51:31:11
Speaker 3
But I've always seen at the Crag and he's always like in his climbing gear and like hanging out and he's like a bit of a dude. So they seem in the city. Yeah. Like, oh, him, they recognize the other. He's like, nice haircut. It's like, really changed. I've not seen him for a while, so good to catch him for sure.
00:51:33:06 - 00:51:38:08
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:51:38:08 - 00:51:52:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's like pre, I can't even imagine the pain he went through. But knowing him the way he is, I can imagine he was super chill the boat when it happened. I bet he was like really relaxed and just he's like such a calm guy is unbelievable. Yeah.
00:51:52:20 - 00:51:53:03
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:51:54:08 - 00:51:56:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. That story's wild, man.
00:51:56:22 - 00:51:57:22
Speaker 3
Is it crazy for.
00:51:58:04 - 00:51:58:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:51:58:21 - 00:52:07:08
Speaker 2
So crazy. And like, keeping the climbing shoe on self extrication flying back to the UK, like, all of it. Just absolute unbelievable.
00:52:08:08 - 00:52:19:13
Speaker 3
Yeah. At least catch.
00:52:19:13 - 00:52:21:23
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:52:21:23 - 00:52:23:13
Speaker 2
Go get some context to the story.
00:52:24:12 - 00:52:24:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:52:26:12 - 00:52:57:18
Speaker 2
All right. So. So where are we here in this chronology? You know, this this life story of yours. So you've climbed Lennon Peak. You know, you, you know, come, come back to the UK. You, you know, started climbing up a complete storm and you're testing to become a rock guy, right? That's yeah, that's where you're at. Yeah. So, you know, just because we, we interview a lot of guys, I don't think we want to dwell on the what it's like to become a guide like to too much but I am still like pretty darn interested.
00:52:57:18 - 00:53:02:05
Speaker 2
Like what? You know, what was that process like in the UK?
00:53:02:05 - 00:53:24:08
Speaker 3
So in the UK, I came as I came out from the Spain and I quite strong, have been climbing all winter and I was like, Right, I want to get into the, the rock climbing. So you know, the that point I was been doing was chart climbing. So I was like right. So I started to learn proper design, try climbing like videos, going out with like mentors and friends who I met in Spain.
00:53:24:13 - 00:53:46:05
Speaker 3
So people who had so knew what they were doing. And going through that I started getting into try Climbing is like, Oh, this is awesome, Chart climbing is amazing. And then I guess I was quite a strong sport climber. I was getting good at trying it strong. It was like, Right, I really want to I want to have an extra purpose to the climbing just rather than climbing.
00:53:46:05 - 00:54:06:09
Speaker 3
So at the time I was a climbing bum, I guess I was living for climbing that much money as I will. I want to be capable. I want to be able to look after myself and others. I want to be knowledgeable and I want to add an extra element climbing. So as I look into options of becoming a climbing guide and in the UK, the way it works is like there's a thing called mountain training.
00:54:06:20 - 00:54:28:17
Speaker 3
It's an association and you go through the different levels of so you start with the very first thing called a mountain leader, which is basically navigation in off trails and navigation in the mountains. And then the next level is a rock climbing instructor where you learn how to sell top ropes and you can teach like placing gear, but you can't seize lead in.
00:54:29:08 - 00:54:49:15
Speaker 3
And then the next stage and that is called a mountain climbing instructor where you take people at multiple chains scrambling, see cliff climbing, anything that doesn't involve snow and ice. And that's why I wanted to become that was my goal. So I had to go through these various qualifications together. So I set off on this journey and I was just like dedicated.
00:54:49:15 - 00:55:11:20
Speaker 3
So I'm just going to again, it takes people years and years and years. But I was like, Well, I'm going to put all my time and all my money and I'll sacrifice jobs and careers and money to do these things. So I just didn't spend my time taking the prerequisites like happiness. Climbers grade having to climb Mount Molly pitches, taking people out on the mountains, doing rescues and so on.
00:55:12:03 - 00:55:13:12
Speaker 3
So that's how it's all progressed.
00:55:14:05 - 00:55:14:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:55:14:23 - 00:55:31:14
Speaker 2
No, man, that's it's a really crazy process. I know for myself, like, I'm slowly trying to work towards a CMG apprentice rock guide and I feel like I'm light years away from that, you know? But it's still definitely a pipe dream to to kind of aspire to one day and to be able to do that and facilitate people in the outdoors.
00:55:33:12 - 00:55:33:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:55:33:20 - 00:55:35:03
Speaker 1
So what, what are the.
00:55:35:03 - 00:55:47:14
Speaker 2
Kind of like proficiencies that you need as a guide in the UK? Like what? Like for that final rock guide test, what are the kind of what are the kind of grades they're testing you on? What are the kind of things that they're testing you on?
00:55:48:01 - 00:56:12:06
Speaker 3
Okay, so is is a bit have been the main reason it's a little bit sim is the HMG now you a nine day training course which is where you learn the skills and you have to go away and do an apprenticeship, shall we say, where you put these skills into practice and hone in on your assessment. You have five days so and the first day it's not in all the but one of the days is you take you guide to people.
00:56:12:14 - 00:56:31:16
Speaker 3
So you take people on, you have to guide them. This is where the British funky grays come in, but you have to be able to guide and lead and teach comfortably. Yes, and both. So when we're talking V. S in terms of grades, let's work this out. We haven't got a grade comparable. We have.
00:56:31:16 - 00:56:32:21
Speaker 2
You go pull one up here.
00:56:32:22 - 00:57:01:02
Speaker 3
That'll be. Yeah, because I know let's not get the British grading going on a Canadian podcast. It wouldn't be feasible. Right. Okay. So you have to be able to lead to people comfortably on 570. That right. Did you say five? Seven? Yeah. Okay.
00:57:01:10 - 00:57:04:18
Speaker 2
So yeah, North America. Five, seven. Yeah.
00:57:05:11 - 00:57:23:04
Speaker 3
So when we say in Guyanese, I basically usually, you know, in our pitches you're doing all the road work, she bringing two people up, you're tying them in, you connect to them, you check them if, if it's really smooth and it's like quick, it's like you're taking what, this mole bitch quick. And so that's what you have to build to climb.
00:57:23:14 - 00:57:42:19
Speaker 3
And the Ashira to have done minimum 40. Yes so price the exam they want you to them 40 of these routes you asked them for even guiding taking people up in your own time. Well when it comes to the exam, the way I went about is I wanted to make sure I could lead to with two people comfortably.
00:57:43:03 - 00:57:45:19
Speaker 3
So easy would be was that.
00:57:46:16 - 00:57:48:08
Speaker 2
It used to be. Yeah.
00:57:48:09 - 00:58:06:13
Speaker 3
So I like drive I can say to people look ten be and be in my comfort zone chain putting giving chain check in everything making sure if it's all right, be able to solve any issues. I know I'm way about this on the boat in the UK they want to be yes no one really goes in the yes because you're on your limit and you're nervous about.
00:58:06:13 - 00:58:14:12
Speaker 3
But you can get for it. You're not going to pick up little things or the examiner asked your questions while you climb and you're not going to, you know, going to it.
00:58:14:20 - 00:58:22:07
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. You do have a higher level of proficiency and the higher, the better. So it makes more sense. Yeah, it's a margin of error as well.
00:58:22:15 - 00:58:48:15
Speaker 3
So that's the grade for climate. And then you need to also be able to do a teaching where you talk to people up this route, but you're also teaching them. So in every pitch you may be teaching gay policemen or Chinese anchors are one point I can get 2.2, three point good. So you're basically facilitating a full day of teaching whilst climbing, and then you do this scrambling where you take two people scrambling for the mountains on great free plus terrain up and down.
00:58:48:19 - 00:58:52:01
Speaker 3
Is that the same as America? You have one to free and.
00:58:52:12 - 00:58:59:00
Speaker 2
Sounds like more than fifth class is the delineation. Third, fourth, fifth in.
00:59:11:20 - 00:59:12:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:59:12:18 - 00:59:17:21
Speaker 3
Rise is probably is on the highs and the scrum is like one in the UK it's just before the climbing stars.
00:59:17:22 - 00:59:18:16
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah.
00:59:18:16 - 00:59:20:02
Speaker 2
So it's fifth class. Yeah.
00:59:20:02 - 00:59:20:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:59:20:19 - 00:59:38:04
Speaker 3
So you take people up and down scrum more and hold down the mountains. You might do like free scrum was up to a summit and come down some scrum those and then the day navigation where you're taking a group out and you navigate in and then the final day is a rescue day. So you've got to perform a series of rescue situations.
00:59:38:09 - 01:00:00:13
Speaker 3
You put on the crag, you're climbing with someone else and so on falls and you say, Right, you've got X mountain time, you've got to rescue this person. So that's what that's the five days of assessment and you've got to pass all five days partial qualification. And and there's a lot of in that training and there's lots of things you've got to do to even get started on the assessment goals.
01:00:01:00 - 01:00:07:09
Speaker 2
So at the time of doing your assessment, what was kind of like you're the sport grades that you were climbing.
01:00:08:00 - 01:00:13:18
Speaker 3
Right? Yes, At the time of my assessment, I was climbing. So let's look at this, some more things on the chart.
01:00:13:18 - 01:00:15:16
Speaker 2
So where you climb so.
01:00:15:16 - 01:00:17:07
Speaker 3
Like 513.
01:00:17:17 - 01:00:21:11
Speaker 2
You were climbing 513 in sport you like seven C plus. Yeah.
01:00:21:11 - 01:00:22:18
Speaker 3
74 Yeah.
01:00:22:22 - 01:00:24:21
Speaker 2
Okay. And what are you climbing now?
01:00:24:21 - 01:00:49:02
Speaker 3
I'm still doing that now. So basically I would say back then I was like I was, I would say I was a7c7 sevens equals climber, whereas now like I normally get like 72nd go, I'd say I would, I would have to have a few go. Isn't that to get it. So that's where I'm at now.
01:00:49:02 - 01:01:04:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. That's to us mere mortals. It's called ascending or. Yeah. I don't know. You're like, you're just, you're just on the course, to be honest. We're all going to have to boot you out of the room.
01:01:04:16 - 01:01:26:19
Speaker 3
You're on the know of guide in that walk out. You want to say he's been a strong climber? This may be a guide by far like being a strong climber gives you the capability to process maybe more things, but be able to teach, communicate, lead and be putting the other person before your own interest is like he's not been a strong go.
01:01:26:19 - 01:01:39:08
Speaker 3
I'm going to be like, Yeah, when you go out for the day, it's like, what does that person need? So they're learning to facilitate, not like, well, my kick outs taking someone up. Yeah. So I don't think grade should be as a guide. It shouldn't be the big main thing.
01:01:39:15 - 01:02:01:09
Speaker 2
No absolutely. I think that's, that's it. Yeah. It's a really good point. Right. Like there are all these other skills and technical proficiencies that that you have to be able to do or to be competent in on or if you had all those other skills but you had no interpersonal skills and you were like the most depressed, like worst person to be around, you have to spend like an eight hour day tied to a cliff with this guy.
01:02:01:09 - 01:02:02:17
Speaker 2
You know, he's like, abysmal.
01:02:02:22 - 01:02:03:22
Speaker 1
Like, even that.
01:02:03:22 - 01:02:09:09
Speaker 2
Would not be a pleasant experience. Right? So there's there's obviously so much more that goes into it.
01:02:10:07 - 01:02:11:22
Speaker 1
How do you how do you find.
01:02:11:22 - 01:02:30:06
Speaker 2
Your sport grade like transfers into the trad and on different rock types like when you when you came here to Squamish, did you feel that there was like a large learning curve where your grade was greatly diminished or is that something that you kind of picked up on really quick? You feel like you're around the same level.
01:02:30:15 - 01:02:54:00
Speaker 3
So when it comes to Trad, I'm not much when I'm not a massive difference for me personally, and that's because I've never been a project. I've never really project. Like not because I just don't enjoy the process of project compared to on site. So for me, I know as a rule, but I only yeah, I generally only Yeah.
01:02:54:00 - 01:03:27:09
Speaker 3
It's like any time you feel that the feeling of anxiety for me so superior as a project project is great and it's a good feeling. But when you on say something, it's just the, the adventure frill, the bores and just the unknown. And if you get one show right and it's just an excitement and so I we've spoken I've always maybe like I've maybe done something four or five times the most and I wouldn't do more than not, not because it's a bore beyond measure.
01:03:27:16 - 01:03:28:20
Speaker 3
I would rather climb more stuff.
01:03:29:04 - 01:03:29:11
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:03:29:21 - 01:03:59:07
Speaker 3
So we try climbing generally. You can't really have read point, but generally I think the try climbing game in the UK is like ground up on sites is a thrill. So for me we've tried. I've never project I'm always on the side so we've grade one to tried and I'm climbing I was the crazy so yeah I've I've climbed aee71717e7 climber by on site like e5 e6.
01:03:59:15 - 01:04:23:21
Speaker 3
So that would be. Yeah. Which is 512 B fight or C and that. Yeah. So that's another massive difference. Or in terms of what you said about the rock wall, sorry, the rock type, I find personally that when I go somewhere new the first couple of days, I will be a bit loud, my comfort zone, I'll drop my grade and I'll get my legion.
01:04:23:22 - 01:04:43:08
Speaker 3
So I came to Squamish was like I'd not climb that I have. So the first couple of days ago under the classics and get used to the rock, how it moves. And once I'm like, I trust again, I know the move and I'll then go for it. So yeah, it does drop, but then it will come up with persistence and a learning process and not get into frustrated.
01:04:43:21 - 01:04:44:04
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:04:45:08 - 01:05:09:04
Speaker 2
It sounds great, man. Yeah, that's. Wow, that's really, really awesome. So we do.
01:05:09:04 - 01:05:24:05
Speaker 3
Oh, definitely. But yeah, apprenticeship wise, learning you every time you go. Always like you drop your grade and don't get that. Don't help yourself, just learn it and yeah. Then jump on something when she you know you didn't know yourself 1000000 minutes. Yeah.
01:05:24:13 - 01:05:30:19
Speaker 2
So I'm going to kind of run the washroom to second break here. Anybody else need to have.
01:05:30:22 - 01:05:32:10
Speaker 3
To jump in the washer. You have some.
01:05:33:00 - 01:05:36:20
Speaker 1
Exit.
01:05:36:20 - 01:05:41:18
Speaker 3
Is it still recording? CO Well, okay, go.
01:06:26:05 - 01:06:27:18
Speaker 1
And open up.
01:06:29:07 - 01:06:47:17
Speaker 3
Or I'm all about the on the side this and for me nothing compares in climbing and the feeling experience. I think the training is was like you fight for me my because my motivation for on the side is so high I wake up out of bed and I'm knowing I'm going from say I'm like, I'm sorry, I can't get there.
01:06:48:03 - 01:07:03:20
Speaker 3
And the fight for that, that route, the fight for the on site for me so high because I want it so bad, but also there's an extra fair element of it going the way holds out. The gear is your fight in your life and when you project in is very easy to see this give up because you're not.
01:07:03:21 - 01:07:08:19
Speaker 3
Oh, I can't have a chance. But the other side, it's like you're fighting to the death, you know? It's awesome.
01:07:10:04 - 01:07:13:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, he was. Did you want another beer?
01:07:13:21 - 01:07:16:08
Speaker 3
You get if you're having one. I will not then.
01:07:17:04 - 01:07:36:03
Speaker 1
Oh, that's awesome.
01:07:36:03 - 01:07:36:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:07:36:16 - 01:07:39:17
Speaker 1
I'm all about the onside to the differences. I'm doing it.
01:07:39:17 - 01:07:44:05
Speaker 2
At the six a.
01:07:44:05 - 01:07:49:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, we're done. You know, I'm actually really stoked on, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm hoping to make some really big.
01:07:49:16 - 01:07:51:14
Speaker 2
Improvements this year in my climbing. So.
01:07:52:13 - 01:08:11:21
Speaker 1
You know, I Yeah absolutely.
01:08:12:22 - 01:08:13:10
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:08:13:13 - 01:08:16:12
Speaker 1
I feel like I would get into projecting routes and stuff.
01:08:16:12 - 01:08:21:21
Speaker 2
But it would be to facilitate better on sighting. You know it's like it's not.
01:08:21:21 - 01:08:22:12
Speaker 1
Like because.
01:08:22:12 - 01:08:24:21
Speaker 2
This is my calling. Like my calling is like I want to.
01:08:24:21 - 01:08:26:14
Speaker 1
Look at a sick, beautiful, a static.
01:08:26:14 - 01:08:27:23
Speaker 2
Line and be like, I'm just going to.
01:08:27:23 - 01:08:28:19
Speaker 1
Go try that.
01:08:28:22 - 01:08:42:02
Speaker 2
Like, you know, And if I have to climb harder to be able to do that better, then I'll do it. That's kind of like my you know, like that's where my passion lies. Is is that adventure to get out and to go explore.
01:08:43:13 - 01:09:34:10
Speaker 1
You're there. Yeah. You.
01:09:34:10 - 01:09:55:09
Speaker 3
That's a good question. And so with onsite, I never use. So in the UK we have something called UK C, which is UK climbing, which is similar I think to mountain projects and people like you can write a climb, you can talk about like people talk about, Oh, I sent this first go and if you want somebody, is this so on?
01:09:56:01 - 01:10:18:08
Speaker 3
So I never use that because for me I love the adventure. So if I read them comments, it will take away a part of the climb. If you read the comments and you still do it for me, I still say I think it's an almost like so I wouldn't say that way from someone because, you know, they read like all there's a road come halfway up and whatever anyone considered it almost like that's their opinion.
01:10:18:08 - 01:10:39:20
Speaker 3
But for me I would still say is however I really don't read the comments cause I want to go into that re I want to have the experience, I like the adventure and I will read it like a rocket to the crag. I'll have a guidebook, I'll look at the line, I'll read the line. It might say like So for example, there's a route in North Wales which is famous called Right Wall.
01:10:40:00 - 01:11:01:09
Speaker 3
It's like a classic E5, and I did it this summer and it's got big reputation and everyone has heard of it is like it's got a real history test piece. So obviously I use the guidebook I read This is right, Wall is a blank looking wall on the right side wire. And then for me I'll then look at a line, pick my gear, look at the line, or take a full rack.
01:11:01:09 - 01:11:14:22
Speaker 3
If I'm uncertain, I always go for it. So for me, an answer is no information from anyone else. I'm reading the Fin online, but if someone does tell me so, you know, I read something online, I would still consider it as an on site, but I prefer not to.
01:11:15:11 - 01:11:25:06
Speaker 1
That's what I.
01:11:25:06 - 01:11:43:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. So if I wouldn't know, I would always like I would go to a crack and go, That was cool. Let's climb. I would do that totally. But generally in the UK I'm going out with an objective in mind. The day I light ride, there's this Essex at this crag. I want to go and climb this Essex. I know it's in Essex.
01:11:43:16 - 01:11:55:04
Speaker 3
Another name, another line. I read the guidebook and it's a free star classic which we we spoke about. It's a free star in the UK is high. You, you the five star here, right?
01:11:55:04 - 01:11:56:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, we do. Yeah.
01:11:56:21 - 01:12:07:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's five star. Five star system, right.
01:12:07:00 - 01:12:15:09
Speaker 1
Except for maybe I'm wrong.
01:12:15:09 - 01:12:19:08
Speaker 2
Okay, then I was wrong, but still a three star for sources.
01:12:19:18 - 01:12:40:13
Speaker 3
So in New case like we know of guidebooks by Rob Fox and it's free star rating sub like yep I'm going to go to this correct today it's an E5 it's free stars erm it's called this it's on this wall. I'm up for it. You have a little symbol sometimes you might have a symbol of like a ghost or full story, which means, like, it's a bit scary.
01:12:40:13 - 01:12:51:13
Speaker 3
So I might have, I might know it's going to be a little bit scary but the great so anyway, so you know from, you know, from the grade it's going to be bold or it's going to be well protected. And that's all I know.
01:12:52:02 - 01:12:58:14
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:12:58:14 - 01:13:23:11
Speaker 3
Mm. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. It's hard. 37.
01:13:23:11 - 01:13:28:02
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:13:28:02 - 01:14:50:07
Speaker 3
Yeah. It sounds extreme. Yep. Yes. So four months is a lot of things. So from my understanding the grading system. So e doesn't mean extreme, but I never think of it. I just think of e grades as being a step up from severe service. I don't think of any meaning extreme, but I do. The letters signify the courage.
01:14:50:09 - 01:15:15:13
Speaker 3
I'm going to say the letter signify the courage of the brave. So that's the boldness, the danger, the length, the commitment and all the sort of courage of the is in the was. So back in the day when first started off, it would always stops at one point. Yes. Was the highest grade and then back in like the semis, I think it was like Joe Brown and the Pioneers everything is got creative.
01:15:15:14 - 01:15:38:23
Speaker 3
Yes, you just stop. So nowadays like things that grading creatives that would now like e to and e free but they just said always be s because where the system stopped as time has gone on is below. And then so in terms of like to give an example is Gemma your guest on the grade. So E one which E one is a grade.
01:15:39:01 - 01:15:59:22
Speaker 3
Most climbers in the UK aspire to lead in trad E ones like. You've got to have. I've opened a lot of doors in that world and you've made it to the extreme, shall we say. And so e15 B's is. Yeah. By these standard and it's put into perspective is what in American grades E.
01:15:59:22 - 01:16:01:03
Speaker 2
One five 1080.
01:16:01:10 - 01:16:10:13
Speaker 3
5 to 90. So so I guess you wouldn't consider a North America like super high, right. Would you say that's like a would you say it's like an average grade, Would you say.
01:16:10:21 - 01:16:30:13
Speaker 2
Well I'd say for like an average climber, like the majority, like once you can climb ten AA and you can do it consistently like you can, you got to have some, some good competency. You're pretty physical and fit and you can go start climbing a whole bunch of really awesome stuff. I think what you're characterizing it as is exactly how I would describe it.
01:16:31:16 - 01:17:00:21
Speaker 2
Kyle Correct me if I'm wrong, right.
01:17:00:21 - 01:17:24:07
Speaker 3
Right. Is is sympathy. Okay. Right. So that grade is like it opens up. This door of climb begins. There's lots of options. And let's see, you're a competent climber, so similar to the UK. But the difference is if I climb a 510 A in Squamish and basically it might be the same or harder than the UK as an E1 type, but the CO two the rule be totally different.
01:17:24:07 - 01:17:55:19
Speaker 3
So in the Welsh mountains like E1 five is the grooves is a classic. In North Wales it's a free pitch, more pitch in the mountain. But the difference being is that it's normally wet, it's green, and the Rockies, it's an absolute classic. It doesn't sound like a classic, but the experience and the moves are so beautiful and the rock and the place here in this high valley mountains, Valley Road, the top climb is very well like it's a crack and it's like green at time that it's not like sponsor jumping like you do.
01:17:55:20 - 01:18:16:02
Speaker 3
Squamish is like things are moving, rocks are wobbling, you're putting in gear and it's behind a rocky, wobbly rock. And it's there's a difference there with ridge climbing. Not everywhere, but in certain areas in the mountains is a it's probably more like the Rockies, like, you know, Canadian Rockies. I've heard this at least Rock.
01:18:16:09 - 01:18:16:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.
01:18:17:04 - 01:18:31:01
Speaker 3
Is probably more like that. It's like you're climbing and you're not this like in bomber cracks and getting going on a fall that's like a that's like a bolt because it's like, well it's like for this is this wouldn't be good for you So there's a different experience.
01:18:31:10 - 01:18:40:18
Speaker 2
Yeah Total question mark you're in the unknown in a state of mystery. Like the gear could be protection or it could just be mentally making you feel good.
01:18:41:02 - 01:18:48:08
Speaker 1
So. Yeah, so. And you and you don't know which one. It is, yeah. So it's like sometimes you put in a screw, it hits.
01:18:48:08 - 01:18:49:08
Speaker 2
An air pocket and you're.
01:18:49:08 - 01:18:53:19
Speaker 1
Like, Am I going to, like, take that out and find good ice or am I going to just clip.
01:18:53:19 - 01:18:57:19
Speaker 2
That and like, keep moving, you know? And personally, I take it out and I find.
01:18:57:19 - 01:19:05:08
Speaker 1
Good ice, if I can, you know, totally. It's nice to have gear that's not just like a mental crutch, but yeah, for sure.
01:19:05:15 - 01:19:29:21
Speaker 3
That's yeah, yeah. It's, it's, it's always a top 50 route, you know? Well, people like trouble everywhere couldn't do it. Well it's dry period so in the so I, I did it in the summer just kind of like a dry period you can read into that is is brilliant. Well there's loads of results but then you will get you ones with loads of good gear but it's still never going be like Squamish.
01:19:30:10 - 01:20:19:03
Speaker 3
Oh like pomegranate crags is always you have to work for it, you have to work for the gear. And I think that's why the British Greens got these numbers because you do so need them. Because if you go into it thinking it's a 510, just you're going to be surprised because the numbers tell you a lot. It's like it gives it's a current, the visual and no so well guess we've folks they do put little symbols so generally they see a photograph goes or you might have a poster which means it's Pompeii or in the traditional in the traditional guidebooks, rock facts, you have the symbols and you be like, right.
01:20:19:03 - 01:20:40:11
Speaker 3
I know this has got Pompeii, it's gonna be Pompeii. And those are foot really has it means it can be run. Now. There might be like a school symbol, which means it's dangerous. For example. But in the classic books is all e les or below and attack grade. But the combination of attack grade in the E number will give you some information.
01:20:40:18 - 01:21:14:00
Speaker 3
So if you have an E, so. That's right. Yeah. So the number is it does signify a danger, but I'd say the courage of the route as well and maybe like a safe where you have to really work hard to find the gear. But the tech grade is the hardest move in the room. A bit like French sport grade is so a E, one five, B, so you go better.
01:21:14:15 - 01:21:35:09
Speaker 3
So like five B, you want five. A means of. The hardest move in that route is a British tech grief five B, which is about six A The way to work out a British tech grade is you take the number so five B you adding a whole new grade, which will take you to six. B you drop it down one, so we give you six.
01:21:35:09 - 01:21:37:17
Speaker 3
So does that make sense?
01:21:39:05 - 01:22:00:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I was like listening to have my four. I turns like, what are doing algebra right now? Like I said, you go prepare.
01:22:00:04 - 01:22:22:01
Speaker 3
Yes. Sorry. That's what I Yeah. So the British tech grade if you want to convert it to a French sport grade roughly let's say you've got E to five C which is quite common five C you add on a whole grade, we should set you to six French and drop it down to six B, So that would be six B on sport climbing physicality.
01:22:22:05 - 01:22:25:07
Speaker 2
And is that pretty consistent generally?
01:22:25:07 - 01:22:46:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, you can. It's very hard to. I'm going to be burned at the stake for this, but it's very hard to just say like, yeah, that's the way it works. But generally that's how you if I'm going in search of absolute right, am I fit in the first. Well it's probably like a six basically. So yeah. Well I've got to have the ability to find the gear, the all the danger, so on and so on.
01:22:47:02 - 01:23:16:16
Speaker 3
So you can use our and I don't, I guess there's no rules. I guess you could and that would mean basically it would be if it was that combination. It means seven C would be eight C in French. So be it. A C sport guide or even would mean it be super well protected. It'd be like a bowl.
01:23:16:22 - 01:23:27:04
Speaker 3
It'd be essentially like you could put every centimeter to me that you will because the grades is so high and the danger level so low in comparison. Does that make sense?
01:23:27:04 - 01:23:32:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that's just like or like hypothetically, if you just had a uniform by crack. Yeah.
01:23:32:13 - 01:23:33:16
Speaker 3
Way Exactly.
01:23:33:17 - 01:23:35:21
Speaker 1
Number one. Number One, number one. So.
01:23:35:21 - 01:23:40:10
Speaker 2
And number one, it's like hypothetically, like there. There you go. You have it. So Indian Creek. Pretty much so.
01:23:40:10 - 01:24:28:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's I guess you could technically. Yeah, that's correct. So it's like when you rock up to the crag, if you're like if you're an E2 climber on your limit, you're going to be seeking out E to climbs. We potentially high attack grades. Could you like I know the gig is going to be easier and better, whereas if you're an need to climb and you want a bit of like and you're quite confident you might pick a lower tech grade and go for a bit of a a mental test today.
01:24:29:00 - 01:25:15:21
Speaker 3
So the two grades together, the letter and the tech numbers together, they tell you a lot about the route you have to like the combination of A to tell you whether it's bold or whether it's safe and then allows you to pick your route for the day. Are can we go so now? No, not necessarily, no, Because if you go on to Cornwall, for example, on the South coast, so where Pimm's from, which is Dorset, which is a bit more east, generally the rock gets older as you go west.
01:25:15:21 - 01:25:37:09
Speaker 3
So where Pimm's from, it's like younger rock and it's limestone, Dorset and everything's falling down. So you go and climb, you climb like a trial route and you're out for adventure. Is like your, your guaranteed an adventure day because things are falling down, whereas if you go to Cornwall you will get solid pomegranate like Squamish and the grading system is the same.
01:25:37:09 - 01:25:55:04
Speaker 3
It doesn't change, but it will and the combination of the two will change then. So it's not uniform around the UK, but I would say like you could get so much geology and so many different types of rock that you can go places where it's totally safe to climb and we bomb a rock and nothing is going to break off.
01:25:55:14 - 01:26:28:17
Speaker 3
Generally. Yeah. And everyone their own interpretation, that's a general overview and you go into so much more is when it makes sense, when you know it just when you're first you just like what these British guys doing like it's just but it does make sense when wouldn't you know it? No, no worries.
01:26:29:17 - 01:26:47:10
Speaker 2
All right. So we've kind of gone through like this history, this whole process, giving you a little bit of a background. And I think that, you know, the next part of this this story here is to say, you know, how did you end up in Canada in a converted fire engine, traveling around and climbing?
01:26:47:13 - 01:26:53:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Well, why why don't we go there? That's a that's a pretty that's a pretty good place to start, I think.
01:26:54:03 - 01:27:17:13
Speaker 3
Okay. So during all this journey of like being a rock boom for two win seasons, for two winning seasons, I managed to persuade you to come to Norway. I was like, Oh, there's some ice climbing in Norway. And When I was working on the school again, I actually took the kids with some of the teachers on an ice climbing trip, and the teacher was like, Oh, Anita, step out of bounds.
01:27:17:13 - 01:27:30:07
Speaker 3
Would you like to come along? I was like, Oh yeah, it'd be awesome. So I went along, I went into climbing. I at the time, but I was like, I was into mountaineering as like always. That's a good step. We went for this like short trip to Norway. We took the kids and I was like, Wow, I was top rope.
01:27:30:07 - 01:27:53:18
Speaker 3
And on these ice climbs, like, this is just next level ice climbing. And it just it opened up a different world, a different feeling. I was almost like magic. It was just something just to explain the feeling. It was just like, This is crazy. So for two seasons I persuaded my girlfriend to come live in Norway and we had two amazing ice seasons climbing ice.
01:27:54:10 - 01:28:14:18
Speaker 3
And and then years have gone by and and we I said something and I was like, oh, Canada has got like, mountains. He's got amazing ice climbing. He's got four seasons. We need to like, go there and and I knew as my partner, she's traveled all over the world and everywhere, but she'd never been kind of so she's like, Yeah, I'm supersite for that.
01:28:15:01 - 01:28:39:11
Speaker 3
I was like, well, he's got great ice, great rock. I'm supersite this. And I was like, Well, let's go then. So we got our visa. We headed out and I was just on a journey to come and like climb and explore kind of the and the nature. So we moved out here. Um, we decided to live in a truck because we know the rents super expensive and we bought big fire truck and now we're traveling around Canada.
01:28:39:22 - 01:28:46:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, I guess so. How did you go through the process of.
01:28:46:15 - 01:28:51:23
Speaker 2
Of, you know, acquiring this, this fire truck? Like, like, were you just looking for any.
01:28:51:23 - 01:28:53:06
Speaker 1
Van, anything.
01:28:53:06 - 01:28:57:15
Speaker 2
Or, you know, did you, did you start looking when you were in the UK? Like how did that process go?
01:28:57:22 - 01:29:16:08
Speaker 3
So we, we saved us some money was abroad. This is our budget and. We was like, we're going to get a farm. We started looking before we came and I was set. My heart was set on getting Econoline, which is like a classic climber's bomb van. So I think so I was like, Right, Econoline is in cheap. It seems to be reliable.
01:29:16:08 - 01:29:35:11
Speaker 3
Let's get one of them. So we came in, we started looking at Carolina's GMC Savannas, so on and so on, and then one day I was like, Oh, I found something really cool. And I was like, Oh yeah. So she puts on this picture and she's like, It's awesome. Isn't look is big and it's red. I was just like, Oh no.
01:29:35:11 - 01:29:53:23
Speaker 3
Like, no, we're not going there. I said, like, okay, this fire trucks are a thing. It's like, I'll be awesome, be cool. Like we can stand up in there and all these things. So I'm this, like, all logical. My brain is like, Nope, it's going to be expensive. Is over now. Burned red pepper in Vancouver. Let's not do this.
01:29:53:23 - 01:30:16:18
Speaker 3
We're going to stick to the safe zone. We're going to go kind of one. So she said, Well, let's let's go and look at it. That's illegal. Look at it. I was like, Right, we'll make a road trip our van. We can go and climb in Revelstoke and go to the Rockies on the way. So we travel over and I know at this point I knew and I'm not getting drawn into this like big red fire truck driving around.
01:30:17:11 - 01:30:43:15
Speaker 3
And then she's like, Yeah, it'll be good in the winter. You guys are ice climbing, dropping all your stuff up. So she knows that's just pulling the strings. And then we get there and it was like pretty awesome. Was like, I can't really say no to this now. So we ended up buying this truck and I saw we call it the Big Red for many reasons because it's big and it's red is power bank balances in the red and it's cause a lot of argument.
01:30:43:16 - 01:30:45:12
Speaker 3
So that's why it's called the Big red.
01:30:45:19 - 01:30:47:21
Speaker 1
That's the.
01:30:47:21 - 01:30:48:18
Speaker 3
Bigger firetruck.
01:30:49:12 - 01:30:51:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, makes perfect sense.
01:30:51:05 - 01:31:16:10
Speaker 2
Fan Yeah, I just, I don't know, something about that thing. It's just so, so awesome. Yeah, You build it cool. Yeah, it's really cool. It's really awesome on the inside. Like from one, it's like, you know, well designed. But then it's also there's just something so rad in my opinion, about like two people like, you know, exploring, going around in like this converted fire engine, just like climbing up a storm.
01:31:16:10 - 01:31:21:02
Speaker 2
Like, I think it's like the most wonderful thing ever, you know? It's really cool. So, yeah, it's. It's awesome.
01:31:21:09 - 01:31:26:15
Speaker 3
Oh, that's awesome. I'm. I'm. I'm glad you got to see you. The First person who's come in and I still.
01:31:26:16 - 01:31:51:16
Speaker 2
I feel honored. You know, I had Yeah that was great. I know. SAT down after a nice day out and climbed and stuff, so. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess for, like, for, you know, maybe it is a little late in the podcast, but like, you know, we, we obviously we connected from Facebook, you know, we met, we ended up going climbing at Marvel Canyon and then we climbed this ice climb called Shriek, and that was like a really, really amazing experience on a lot of levels.
01:31:51:16 - 01:32:10:21
Speaker 2
You know, we had a really awesome day, you know? So it's yeah, I just felt very, very fortunate. And and now you're here, you know, recording in the studio. So it's a, it's the studio living room. But, but yeah it's, it's, it's, it's super awesome. And so it's, it's really, really cool to see and have you here.
01:32:11:07 - 01:32:30:13
Speaker 3
Yeah I really appreciate you guys having me on. And it's just like these are things like some people have climbing bands to find the cool thing about traveling countries, you know, actually become more openminded because you open to you. You're like vulnerable. You're in this new place, you reach out to people. And for me, that's always led to good things.
01:32:30:13 - 01:32:51:13
Speaker 3
Like I met some amazing people and had fun. They are well, I've never had a crossover like you and flip flops and just like things like that. And I just think being open and climbing over people at least are good things. Yeah, I mean, maybe stick to the same partners. There is some goodness with that, but I think it's also good to mix it up and not seeing anyone.
01:32:51:13 - 01:32:56:15
Speaker 3
But you get you get a feeling, Yeah, you know people and yeah, you get a feeling you common people.
01:32:56:16 - 01:33:19:21
Speaker 2
I think it's also just like being a part of being open to new experiences, trying new things, you know, you don't really pigeonhole yourself in that, in that, in that aspect. Like I've been trying to do that as well too is like reach out to new people, have some new experiences and stuff and like, you were like the first person in this, you know, since injury and stuff that I've reached out to and was like, this magnificent, amazing experience is great connection.
01:33:19:21 - 01:33:48:09
Speaker 2
It's just like, you know, sticking neck out a little bit and being willing to have a little bit of a sense of adventure and trying new things, if done the right way, can be very, very fortunate. Really, really good experiences, right? Yeah. So but you have to be willing to kind of, you know, just like in climbing or finding a new partner or, you know, relationship, whatever it is, you have to be willing to take a bit of that risk, you know, of like going into the unknown, like, Hey, maybe this will work out, maybe it'll be great, maybe it's going to be terrible.
01:33:48:09 - 01:33:51:11
Speaker 1
Maybe it's going to be the greatest experience ever. Like there's a whole bunch of.
01:33:51:11 - 01:34:02:23
Speaker 2
Variables to it, But part of that unknown is like it was like we were saying, on a scale of 1 to 5, growth is in that three, right? You don't need the five, the extreme where you're Kyle and I with two broken ankles and you.
01:34:02:23 - 01:34:05:02
Speaker 1
Know, sitting although maybe.
01:34:05:02 - 01:34:24:18
Speaker 2
Here you go start your own podcast. So that's been great but you know it's like you want to be at that three where there's there's just enough that you're creating growth in these new experiences, but not enough that it's like ending in, you know, tragedy or something horrible. Right? You're you're in that sweet spot, that Goldilocks zone just, you know, growing and having these good experiences.
01:34:25:03 - 01:34:47:04
Speaker 3
Oh, it's so I totally agree. It's like I'm so chaffing. I, I don't know the exact it's a bit of a steal from the guy called Colin Matlock. He was like a UK out the right guy. And I think four or five was misadventure three and four was like the ultimate period of growth, which was called frontier Adventure, where you're like using your skills and your limit and you're growing.
01:34:47:10 - 01:35:08:14
Speaker 3
And then there's like adventure where you're going out and you're having a good time and you're learning, but it's not like the peak. So there's all these different elements. And I think and we talking about like meeting people. And so if it's getting your comfort zone right, climbing or anything in life, you're going to go out of your comfort zone to grow and everybody ends up being a bad experience.
01:35:08:14 - 01:35:26:04
Speaker 3
So let's say we met and things didn't work out. Every day in the mountains you learned something. So even if you walk out and you didn't get to tell you things and go right, you're going to learn from that experience. But you you've got to go out your comfort zone to grow. And if you always stay in your comfort zone, then you're never going to grow, are you?
01:35:26:06 - 01:35:35:05
Speaker 3
Is this going to plateau which is fine, but for me, the person I am, I want to grow, I want to learn, I want to get the most out of life. So and I think a lot of people in climbing is la la.
01:35:35:12 - 01:35:39:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 100%.
01:35:39:04 - 01:36:30:05
Speaker 3
And and I had moments of we're about to head to Montana tomorrow, so me and my girlfriend, the Big Red, we're going to head to Montana and I've heard and there's a place called Bozeman and you guys, I know you've seen I have you been there? Go to Bozeman. Yeah, well, the last promising is we're going to Montana and then we're going to Colorado as well, because my girlfriend's done some research on Colorado and she's like, oh, this ice water park, okay, we're going to go there.
01:36:30:05 - 01:36:46:14
Speaker 3
So we're going to go to both. Yeah, we're like super psyched. So we're going to go see Montana, do a lot of ice climbing, then go to Colorado, do some more ice climbing, and then we're to go to the Rockies for like and the February and so the end of the season and the laws of ice climbing there.
01:36:47:08 - 01:37:12:03
Speaker 3
So we're going to like follow the ice, do lots of ice climbing and then I'm hoping co may to move back to the West Coast and base myself in Squamish. And I would like to maybe go down the route of HMG Guide in. I'm currently in the process of setting out and is getting my qualification recognizing transfer. So I'm hoping to be doing guiding working under the HMG does.
01:37:12:14 - 01:37:37:05
Speaker 3
That's in the future and I know I'm a toyed with the idea of going the international mountain go. I've got lots of reservations about that. So I'm still not 100% sure if that's where I want to go. So yeah, that's in terms of professionalism and in terms of personal stuff, I just want to add optimism and big walls that like my passion and dream that it's one of the big will and optimism as well.
01:37:37:05 - 01:37:38:04
Speaker 3
I'm really keen for.
01:37:42:16 - 01:37:48:04
Speaker 2
If, if money was no object, what are some things that like stand out in your mind that you'd like to do.
01:37:49:05 - 01:38:19:10
Speaker 3
Or. That's a good question. If money was no object, I honestly I know this is I wouldn't change much. I would definitely have less mechanical issues. Oh, I would still live very simply and probably just a nicer farm, which works most as home. I'd provide more gear and not be like using things for death. I would just if money was an object, I would just go and do lots more albinism.
01:38:19:17 - 01:38:47:01
Speaker 3
I think I've always been held back because in Europe lifts and living in the outs is super expensive. So Craig in the UK and climbing around the UK is adventurous and it's cheap. So if I had unlimited money I would just do it with lots more openness and lots more skiing. That's what I would do. So yeah, and I would do just lots and lots of skiing and, and go as much in the mountains as possible and work as low as possible.
01:38:47:15 - 01:38:50:17
Speaker 2
Do you have any aspirations ever climb like an 8000 meter peak or.
01:38:50:17 - 01:38:51:11
Speaker 1
Something like that.
01:38:52:00 - 01:39:18:23
Speaker 3
Erm I would really like to actually do a technical thousand year peak because I feel I got the experience of a mountain plot of Peak Lenin, which I know it wasn't 8000, but I still got the feel for and personally I really enjoyed the experience, It was great, but I think I missed the test. Technically. I love technical climbing, so I think doing an 8000 mile technical peak requires like some technical climbing.
01:39:18:23 - 01:39:29:00
Speaker 3
I would actually look to do that one day. Yeah, that would be doubly really cool. Something like an opponent as a mile would be really cool. Yeah, really awesome.
01:39:30:07 - 01:39:30:15
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:39:31:09 - 01:39:32:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's quite an.
01:39:32:08 - 01:39:38:20
Speaker 1
Ambitious goal is to go is I like you got to you got to have like a I don't know I feel like a lot.
01:39:38:20 - 01:39:42:19
Speaker 2
Of times like if I'll go for an adventure recently, like, I'll have, like, plan.
01:39:43:05 - 01:39:45:11
Speaker 1
A, B, C, D, you know what I.
01:39:45:11 - 01:39:47:04
Speaker 2
Mean? Like, you're like, okay, if.
01:39:47:04 - 01:39:48:04
Speaker 1
Everything goes.
01:39:48:04 - 01:40:04:20
Speaker 2
Absolutely perfect and and all the stars align and you're amazing and we're ready to go for it. Like, this is the plan for the weekend. We're going to do all these climbs. But then you have like a secondary goal and another and another goal. And it's like that way you don't pigeonhole yourself of being like, Oh, I'm a failure, this or that.
01:40:04:20 - 01:40:23:04
Speaker 2
You're like, if, if things are right and, you know, you can push hard enough, you achieve it. But then if it doesn't work out, which is like, you know, climbing is a huge amount of just failure, then you have these other goals to kind of back down on based on conditions or a lot of other things. And I think like larger long term medical is can be like that as well too.
01:40:23:04 - 01:40:42:17
Speaker 2
You know, it's like, like I want to climb at 8000 meter peak without oxygen. I don't know if I'll ever get the fitness to do it or anything, but I also have enough other goals that if I don't obtain that goal, there's places where I can achieve, you know, my my hunger, my need for adventure and for trying to to try these other things.
01:40:42:17 - 01:40:43:00
Speaker 2
You know.
01:40:43:09 - 01:41:02:21
Speaker 3
I first a really healthy outlook and I feel like so driven and pigeonholed by I do believe you want to do something, you can achieve it and you can do that, but you've got to enjoy the journey, right? I mean, you could burn so many bridges and candles to get to that final goal, which is so fix You can be missing out on all the things in life.
01:41:02:21 - 01:41:30:12
Speaker 3
So if that's a really healthy outlook and I think just like being open to enjoying the journey and what I mean by that is like even like international mole and get a followed by for a while even I've gone along the steps was I know I'm never going to regret going along that journey so going forwards along the journey of like the ethos of me a peak, if you're enjoying that journey, you're never going to even be, sit down and go, don't fancy swim, pick it up for me.
01:41:31:00 - 01:41:56:01
Speaker 3
All those years of fun and experience it and you just how you into that? It's kind of like, well, that was worth it. Even, you know, get to the end, go. Whereas if you're like, it's all about the end goal and nothing else matters or a journey is going to be doesn't happen. And then what I spent the last ten years of my life doing, you know, so I think particular pathway you're going to enjoy the journey is so important, I think because I mean, anything in life, I guess.
01:41:56:01 - 01:42:08:10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Men Yeah, I think that's perfect. Yeah, it was a great place, you know? Enjoy it. Enjoy the journey.
01:42:10:01 - 01:42:21:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's cliché but I think it's is like super true. Anything you just if you just woke up in ten years time. Well, I don't fancy climb no more. You'll never regret that experience, you know. I mean. Yeah, yeah.
01:42:21:14 - 01:42:43:11
Speaker 2
No, no, absolutely. I think, you know like we'll definitely ended on, on this note, but yeah like if, if you've got to wake up every single day and train all the time, you've got to train exhausted, you've got to, you know, you're, you're grinding for this goal and all you're thinking about that end thing, you know, it's like a mundane tasks like cooking.
01:42:43:18 - 01:43:03:03
Speaker 2
If you hate cooking for yourself, well, it's like, well, guess what? You're kind of fucked because you got to do it every single day for the rest of your life. You know what I mean? Like, and I think that's a lot of things. It's like you if you want to be successful in life or you want to feel good and you want to feel fulfilled, you've got to learn how to enjoy those smaller, simpler things, which is the process.
01:43:03:03 - 01:43:03:12
Speaker 3
Yeah.
01:43:03:12 - 01:43:05:08
Speaker 2
So that's it?
01:43:05:10 - 01:43:05:17
Speaker 1
Yeah.
01:43:06:12 - 01:43:20:19
Speaker 3
It's been enjoying the effort. How will I go into the crack in life? Failing I'll pull pulling hard. You've got to enjoy that. Because that's where you were, wasn't it come from. Not that I've seen near the end, because if you didn't enjoy all that time then this. And this is going to be a little bit of both and it's going to fade away.
01:43:20:20 - 01:43:22:03
Speaker 3
You can enjoy the whole process.
01:43:22:07 - 01:43:24:00
Speaker 2
So absolutely.
01:43:24:00 - 01:43:30:19
Speaker 1
Then yeah, my job, that's a wrap.