One thing I’ve learned about climbing over the years is that you never really know when something might go wrong, that human error and the randomness of nature are something we as climbers can’t really avoid. So instead we prepare ourselves to deal with the unknown, to come equipped with the tools necessary both physical and mental to rescue either ourselves or others when things go wrong. Remember that story that was all over the news a few months ago, about a climber who had rescued a base jumper who crashed, hanging precariously on a cliff? Today we get to sit down with the climber herself, River Barry. We dive deep into the details of her heroic rescue on that fateful day and find out what we are all capable of when preparedness, training, and experience all come together.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
Climbing.com Article
Video of the Crash
One thing I’ve learned about climbing over the years is that you never really know when something might go wrong, that human error and the randomness of nature are something we as climbers can’t really avoid. So instead we prepare ourselves to deal with the unknown, to come equipped with the tools necessary both physical and mental to rescue either ourselves or others when things go wrong. Remember that story that was all over the news a few months ago, about a climber who had rescued a base jumper who crashed, hanging precariously on a cliff? Today we get to sit down with the climber herself, River Barry. We dive deep into the details of her heroic rescue on that fateful day and find out what we are all capable of when preparedness, training, and experience all come together.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
Climbing.com Article
Video of the Crash
00:00:00:14 - 00:00:23:22
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:27:02 - 00:00:51:05
Speaker 1
All right, guys, let's dive into today's episode. One thing I've learned about climbing over the years is that you never really know when something might go wrong that human error and the randomness of nature are something we as climbers can't really avoid. So instead, we prepare ourselves to deal with the unknown, to come equipped with the tools necessary, both physical and mental, to rescue either ourselves or others when things go wrong.
00:00:52:07 - 00:01:25:20
Speaker 1
Remember that story that was all over the news a few months ago about a climber who had rescued a base jumper who'd crashed hanging precariously off a cliff. Today we get to sit down with the climber herself. River Berry. We dive deep into the details of her heroic rescue on that fateful day and find out what we are all capable of when preparedness, training and experience all come together and.
00:01:28:07 - 00:01:35:14
Speaker 1
All right. We are live with the Climbing Majority podcast. We're sitting down here with River Berry River. Welcome to the show.
00:01:36:09 - 00:01:38:05
Speaker 2
Thanks so much for having me, guys. I'm excited.
00:01:39:01 - 00:01:41:00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. Thanks so much for coming on.
00:01:42:09 - 00:01:53:00
Speaker 1
Awesome. Well, you know, we're going to give you a little bit of a, you know, a synopsis and a background at the beginning of the show. So, you know, who are you as a climber and how did you get into the sport?
00:01:54:04 - 00:02:24:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, so my name's River Berry. 30 years old. I am from New York originally, but I live in Salt Lake now. We've been here for about three years now, so that's where the bulk of my climbing experience comes from. So when it comes to, like, growing up, I wasn't really athletic at all whatsoever. I really struggled with physical activity and tried different sports when I was really young, but nothing really worked out.
00:02:24:00 - 00:03:03:16
Speaker 2
The only thing that kind of stuck around was like snowboarding. So like in high school and undergraduate school, I would say I was like pretty unhealthy. Not just not athletic, but I was really unhealthy. Like not moving my body much, smoking and drinking a ton, like a lot of, like maladaptive coping, like bad coping skills. And so, like, it wasn't until later on in like undergraduate school, like around junior year that I was like introduced the mountains and that's when like things sort of like turn around to me, like one particular experience I always think about as like the standout catalyst for like, what kind of change thing.
00:03:04:19 - 00:03:20:09
Speaker 2
I like went to the Adirondacks in New York with a couple of friends and like I they were like cross-country runners and I'm like, like icing said, like pretty unhealthy and such. And they were like, We're going to climb mountains. That was like.
00:03:20:16 - 00:03:26:04
Speaker 4
Oh, gosh, okay. It's let's see what this means. And they're like, Yeah.
00:03:26:04 - 00:03:30:10
Speaker 2
We're going to do high peaks and that around excess.
00:03:30:10 - 00:03:34:01
Speaker 4
This was the most challenging experience.
00:03:34:01 - 00:03:48:08
Speaker 2
I had ever probably had. Physically. My feet were completely covered in blisters. I couldn't breathe. I was Charlie hose horsing like every step. I cried like a ton that day.
00:03:48:08 - 00:03:54:10
Speaker 4
It was awful. And I am so grateful for it. It changed my whole life.
00:03:54:11 - 00:04:06:13
Speaker 2
Changed my whole life because we got to the top of two summits that day and I felt the most empowered and I felt like, Holy crap, I did that. And I definitely did not think I could.
00:04:08:00 - 00:04:13:00
Speaker 4
Shout out to Kendra, India for being super patient to me that day.
00:04:13:10 - 00:04:18:11
Speaker 3
Did they just totally undersell like how hard the day was going to be for you, or were you like, prepared?
00:04:19:05 - 00:04:21:03
Speaker 4
I think that they.
00:04:21:05 - 00:04:26:07
Speaker 2
Didn't realize how bad it was for me. Like how like out of shape I.
00:04:26:07 - 00:04:27:00
Speaker 4
Was.
00:04:27:07 - 00:04:37:13
Speaker 2
Like, I don't think I think it was definitely undersold in some ways, but at the same time, I don't think they were expecting it to be as rough as it was for me because they're like, It's no.
00:04:37:13 - 00:04:40:05
Speaker 4
Big deal. We're cross-country runners, you know?
00:04:40:22 - 00:04:41:05
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:04:41:22 - 00:04:46:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. What are we talking like for distance And like, are you scrambling? Is it just a hike or.
00:04:46:16 - 00:05:15:11
Speaker 2
It's mostly just a hike. The Adirondacks are kind of like there's a long approach for, like, usually Miles, I can't remember the specifics for this specific situation was kind of a long time ago now, but I it's usually like you hike in pretty far to get to even the base and then like, you're hiking like from you're hiking from like sea level, you know, and then the peaks are around like 4000 to 5000, usually around through the high peaks.
00:05:15:21 - 00:05:36:17
Speaker 2
I can't remember exactly the elevations. So it's like a good amount of elevation gain and you're it's like a good amount just to get to the base and then you're peaking to two out and the two that we did, I believe was Sawtooth and Gothic. And I think that there's like a saddle that you can like go from one to the next.
00:05:36:17 - 00:05:41:12
Speaker 2
So it wasn't like you know, to too crazy, but it definitely was crazy for me at the time.
00:05:42:04 - 00:05:47:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, This is the first time you guys were, are, you were in like a mountainous landscape pretty much.
00:05:47:20 - 00:06:04:09
Speaker 2
I mean, at least like engaging with the mountains, at least in that way. Yeah, it was kind of crazy, you know, where I grew up or 3 hours from the mountains. And my parents, like my family, didn't, like, go to the mountains at all. That was a part of, like, the culture I was like, grown up in. So, yeah, it was like.
00:06:04:17 - 00:06:09:22
Speaker 4
Welcome, This is what the mountains are like. So it was a rough but.
00:06:09:22 - 00:06:12:21
Speaker 2
Beautiful introduction because like I said, it changed my life.
00:06:13:18 - 00:06:15:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Where did you go from there?
00:06:16:10 - 00:06:43:12
Speaker 2
So that I like, really, I feel like it was an upward progression from there, like just taking care of my mind, body and soul and like, like really becoming, like, a priority. I learned about backpacking shortly after that while in undergraduate school, and I was like, really fascinated with this idea of like, just like you can be completely self-sufficient self with sort of, you know what I mean?
00:06:43:12 - 00:07:16:13
Speaker 2
Like, I could do it all myself, you know, and just get out into the wilderness and find solitude and have empowering experiences. So I didn't really know anybody that was into backpacking. So I just kind of did a lot of like Internet research and like talking to random people and learned as much as I could. And then I just started doing solo trips where I would just like go into the back or like the the Adirondacks and kind of get as far away from people as possible.
00:07:16:13 - 00:07:20:18
Speaker 2
And that also made me feel as safe as possible, cause I'm like, you know, a girl by myself.
00:07:20:18 - 00:07:22:04
Speaker 4
In the woods. Everybody was here.
00:07:22:06 - 00:07:47:01
Speaker 2
You do a doing, you know, just following what feels right. And then I would like, do high peaks, actually. So that was like kind of the cool the first like, you know, like next step, I guess, and engaging with the mountains, which was really quite cool. And then I got into running and yoga, which was really helpful for taking care of my body.
00:07:47:10 - 00:07:51:13
Speaker 2
In grad school. I ran my first half marathon, my only half marathon actually.
00:07:51:18 - 00:07:54:11
Speaker 5
I only want to do that.
00:07:54:11 - 00:07:58:01
Speaker 4
I want to do another.
00:07:58:01 - 00:08:31:03
Speaker 2
And then climbing came into the picture like around like 26 or 27 years old and like went to go visit my friend Kendra that I was mentioning in that original story. She was living in Colorado at the time and earned her now husband took me climbing for the first time and we went outdoors somewhere. I don't even know exactly where, and I was so high on life, I was beyond like, astonished that I made it to the top.
00:08:31:03 - 00:08:47:01
Speaker 2
Like I would have never thought I could have done that. And it was the craziest feeling in the world. We went back to their house that night and I instantly started googling like climbing gyms where I was living in Syracuse, New York. At the time. I was just like, How do I get into this? Like, how do I do more?
00:08:47:01 - 00:08:47:13
Speaker 4
You know?
00:08:47:22 - 00:08:56:19
Speaker 2
And the the climbing gym wasn't even open yet. They hadn't built it yet. And I had already bought the membership and got like the early birds guys.
00:08:56:23 - 00:08:57:10
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:08:57:20 - 00:08:58:23
Speaker 3
The stock is high.
00:08:59:08 - 00:09:04:03
Speaker 4
It was so high. It's so cool to think about, to be honest. I'm just like.
00:09:04:03 - 00:09:11:17
Speaker 1
Do you remember the do you remember the climb that you did the first climb? Was it like a multi pitch? Like did they take you on something extravagant or just because I mean.
00:09:12:04 - 00:09:13:12
Speaker 2
That would be too crazy.
00:09:13:12 - 00:09:18:18
Speaker 4
Ran like, you know, understand how far fetched it was to be climbing. It was such a.
00:09:18:18 - 00:09:21:08
Speaker 2
Crazy thing to be climbing. It also like it.
00:09:21:08 - 00:09:22:02
Speaker 4
Was like a single.
00:09:22:02 - 00:09:45:13
Speaker 2
Pitch, like me. I would definitely say it was around like 100 feet. It was definitely long, but like maybe 80. But regardless, it definitely felt long for me at the time and probably something like a56, you know, nothing too crazy in a beautiful scenery. Like really quite amazing of a first experience, I would say.
00:09:47:08 - 00:09:50:01
Speaker 3
Would you describe yourself as an introvert or an extrovert?
00:09:50:19 - 00:09:55:21
Speaker 2
Definitely. Super social. Yeah. Okay. Definitely super extroverted social. That's a cool question.
00:09:56:16 - 00:10:23:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. No, I was just wondering because like, if it's a really common theme, like something I've experienced, I'm a little more like I can be extroverted, but I'm like naturally an introvert, but like the common theme of just climbing, kind of transcending just some outdoor experience and being this really powerful catalyst of like finding who you are and finding purpose in your life and how that actually translates beyond climbing, you know, in the world.
00:10:23:14 - 00:10:34:17
Speaker 3
So that's just like a really interesting, like common recurring theme that I hear about, at least like, did you, did you find that for yourself? Like post these experiences? It was kind of like, like some kind of a revelation for yourself.
00:10:34:17 - 00:11:05:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I it's yes, absolutely. It skyrocketed every part of like what I was looking for in life. Like, I was like shortly after this part of the story, like I was in Syracuse, New York, after grad school working a job that was like super draining me. And I remember like I was practicing a lot of meditation at the time, and then I would do like drawing prompts after every meditation and all of my drawings are like.
00:11:05:13 - 00:11:14:00
Speaker 4
Seek contentment and where you're at, you know, like trying so hard to manifest, like you are full where you're at. And I just wasn't.
00:11:14:09 - 00:11:36:14
Speaker 2
I wasn't at all. And I really found that climbing really was like the answer in a lot of ways. Honestly, it brought me back into my body. I was really disconnected from my body in a lot of ways for a long time. And I really just developed this really great relationship with taking care of my body, my mind and my soul.
00:11:36:21 - 00:11:45:11
Speaker 2
And a lot of that came from climbing, to be honest. So yeah, I think that definitely speaks to my experience is in a lot of ways for sure.
00:11:46:21 - 00:11:59:15
Speaker 1
You spoke a little bit about a couple of the things that drew you to climbing and some of the things you took from it. What are what are some other like key things that really drew you to the sport and made it such a magical experience for you?
00:12:00:09 - 00:12:28:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, honestly, the first thing that comes to my mind is like, so like I was coping with this really hard job and stuff and like, going to the gym a lot because I got that climbing gym membership. But I would say like the connection with the outdoors, like, so I after like gym climbing when it really got me into outdoor climbing was ice climbing, which is actually super atypical.
00:12:28:15 - 00:13:07:17
Speaker 2
I feel for a lot of people's trajectory, but I really loved how the relationship with with nature was, well, climbing outdoors like that. The connection that I feel when you're interacting with the environment through climbing, it really heightens my like connection with not only nature but like the spiritual parts of my experience and like, I'm not really identified with like any organized religion, but like, I will really harness a lot of like my spiritual spirituality with the outdoors.
00:13:07:17 - 00:13:29:02
Speaker 2
And I think that climbing has really helped me connect with those parts of myself. Also, I would say, and ice climbing is very much so like my like one of my stronger passions and like being introduced to like outdoor climbing through a lot of ice climbing was really powerful way to like, connect my environment. I think.
00:13:30:11 - 00:14:00:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, I really resonate with that. My first outdoor experience climbing was climbing ice, and still to this day, like I love, I love all forms of climbing makes climbing, ice, climbing everything but the the just like methodical process of trying to move over ice in an efficient and safe manner and just connecting with the ice and being in these mountainous areas just attached to frozen water is there's it's like the most beautiful, unbelievable thing ever.
00:14:00:21 - 00:14:15:16
Speaker 3
And just sinking an ice tool and just getting the feedback of just like it's like, oh, like so visceral, you know, it's just like it's like safety and beauty and everything. And it's just like, it's the most amazing feeling ever. I can never get over it.
00:14:15:16 - 00:14:39:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. What a beautiful dance it is that like, it's this call and response that we're doing. Like, we're, we're like watching the weather. We're watching the, like, temperatures in that like, like it's it's so subject to whatever nature wants to provide or not to provide. It's not up to us at all whatsoever. It's up to us to listen, to like, assess, to like read her what she has to say.
00:14:39:20 - 00:14:47:03
Speaker 2
And then it's up to us to decide whether or not she's going to allow us to interact and to have that call and respond to just like.
00:14:47:03 - 00:14:54:01
Speaker 4
Sinking a tool into like the perfect day isn't the perfect time to. Gosh, yeah, that.
00:14:54:01 - 00:14:56:00
Speaker 2
Speaks to everything I live for.
00:14:56:12 - 00:15:03:21
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. It's just it's it's such a magical sport. I don't even. Yeah, it's. It's just unbelievable. Yeah. Wild. That's awesome.
00:15:04:02 - 00:15:07:21
Speaker 2
And I'm super esthetically driven to. And ice is just so esthetic.
00:15:08:05 - 00:15:09:11
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:09:11 - 00:15:39:06
Speaker 1
It's definitely one of the topics that, you know, at least like when we talk about things that we like about climbing, I think that this particular, this particular thing hasn't come up as much. And I love that it's, you know, coming to the surface here because it reminds me a lot of, you know, my beginning stages of climbing is just yeah, that, you know, visceral connection to nature and touching the rock and, you know, you really are interacting with it on such a intimate level and you're paying attention to it so much.
00:15:39:06 - 00:15:47:17
Speaker 1
And it's yeah, it's definitely really magical. And it's something that, you know, since my injury I actually haven't been climbing much. And so it actually kind of sparks my fire a little bit more to get out there.
00:15:48:07 - 00:15:49:13
Speaker 5
Again, cause still.
00:15:51:06 - 00:15:52:09
Speaker 4
Stir the stoke.
00:15:52:17 - 00:15:54:19
Speaker 5
Yeah, stir it up. Yeah.
00:15:55:07 - 00:16:13:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, honestly, climbing is just so amazing. Like and it's how do you go into this place that should just be so unbelievably, like, hostile and foreboding. And it's, it actually just is this like, in a sense, peaceful experience, don't get me wrong when I'm like to body lying through three body bags above a screw, you know, there's some thoughts going on in my mind.
00:16:13:18 - 00:16:34:19
Speaker 3
But but but in general, the overall feeling of it, whether it's rock or snow or ice or anything, it's there is this just like serenity and meditation in in the multitude of experiences and emotions and things you feel that like at the end of the day, I feel so satiated and just so, so good and at peace with myself.
00:16:34:19 - 00:16:39:00
Speaker 3
And it's and it translates to every, every aspect of my life.
00:16:39:00 - 00:16:42:11
Speaker 2
I also just love the way that she demands our respect. You know.
00:16:44:07 - 00:16:49:01
Speaker 4
If you don't respect her, she will remind you, Oh, yeah.
00:16:49:01 - 00:16:49:19
Speaker 5
That's for sure.
00:16:50:10 - 00:17:12:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, I was I was climbing ice with my my girlfriend recently. We went and did this climb called the Plum Light, and it was just like a like high pressured shower hose of water because, like, on the coast here, it's like it gets pretty wet, like spraying and like, we got to the top of pitch one just like, like, you know, water is like falling out of my armpits and we're just both like, all right, Like, we've we've received the sign, you know, It's like, we're done.
00:17:12:11 - 00:17:24:00
Speaker 3
We're out of here. Like, message heard. You know, it's it's not the day. So, yeah, definitely a lot of feedback from from the planet, from Mother Nature, whatever, you know, whatever you want to call it, it's, it's, that's, it's really special.
00:17:25:04 - 00:17:41:22
Speaker 1
So we talk a lot about mentors on this show and their critical role in, you know, getting introduced to the sport. Some people have them and some people don't watch. Are you did you come into the sport with a group of high quality mentors or were you a lone Ranger?
00:17:42:18 - 00:18:11:02
Speaker 2
I am so excited you come out of like gratitude I have for this human is amazing. So when I had gotten into ICE, some Jim friends and I were like, I tell your guide and go try ice climbing was like, Cool, that sounds crazy. So we went and had an amazing experience with these two guys, Robin, Ian and that are on decks.
00:18:11:03 - 00:18:33:10
Speaker 2
And afterwards I like, you know, we had a great time with them. And afterwards I was talking a lot with Rob and like, somehow, like my art came up. I don't really know. I really like the paint and such. And after our like leaving, I was like, I wonder if he'd be down to trade like a painting.
00:18:33:10 - 00:18:34:23
Speaker 4
For like another day ice.
00:18:34:23 - 00:19:00:10
Speaker 2
Climbing, because I would be stoked to climb again. But honestly, like, it's expensive, you know? Anyways, and he was down and so I went ice climbing with him again and we just became friends and he became an amazing mentor. And I would make the three hour drive to that or on nights every so often to climb ice and literally everything that he would teach me, I would write notes.
00:19:00:10 - 00:19:27:06
Speaker 2
I would like, you know, bounce ideas off with him. I was constantly asking questions, and I think he really appreciated that, that I was like, ready to show up, like, be so present and try my best to, like, be efficient and logistically sound. And yeah, I am so grateful that he was patient with me and that he was willing to, to, to teach honestly.
00:19:27:10 - 00:19:37:16
Speaker 2
And I think he was excited about teaching too. So shout out to Rob Wolinsky. Love him so much and he's a huge part of like me getting into the sport in general. I would say.
00:19:38:04 - 00:19:45:19
Speaker 3
Awesome. Yeah, that's a I mean, that's definitely a first. I've never heard of the the painting exchange, but it's pretty rad.
00:19:45:19 - 00:19:47:22
Speaker 4
So some stuff out there.
00:19:48:13 - 00:19:48:20
Speaker 5
Yeah, I.
00:19:48:21 - 00:19:50:11
Speaker 1
Can take any angle. You can get it.
00:19:50:17 - 00:19:54:18
Speaker 3
It works. I mean it sounds like a win win. So yeah, there's no, no complaints there. That's awesome. Yeah.
00:19:55:02 - 00:20:00:10
Speaker 1
And you said, you know, guiding or paying for a guide is expensive. Art, I would say, is more expensive.
00:20:01:00 - 00:20:03:03
Speaker 2
That's really cool for you to say.
00:20:03:03 - 00:20:03:12
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:20:04:03 - 00:20:23:03
Speaker 2
I actually was just in the Adirondacks. I think another important part of me getting into the sport, too, is that like I was just in that or and I said I ran into Ian and every single time I would go to time with Rob, Rob would borrow rental gear, gear from Ian so that I could come with that.
00:20:23:03 - 00:20:32:16
Speaker 2
And I was so grateful to run into Ian a couple of weeks ago when I was climbing ice in the Adirondacks for like home for Christmas. And I was just like.
00:20:32:16 - 00:20:35:01
Speaker 4
I'm so excited to say thank you.
00:20:35:01 - 00:20:50:02
Speaker 2
Like, what an amazing gift it was to help me with like the accessibility to this, like very expensive sport. And yeah, I think that that's an important part to mention too, because like, I couldn't have done it without the gear, you know?
00:20:50:12 - 00:21:09:05
Speaker 1
MM Yeah. I mean, rock climbing is expensive, you know, sport to begin with and ice climbing is a whole nother barrier. I remember when I was like looking to get into it, it was just like, okay, here we go, pull out the credit cards. So it's overwhelming. Yeah, it's very expensive. And the cost to entry is really hard.
00:21:09:05 - 00:21:18:09
Speaker 1
So it's awesome that, you know, the universe kind of lined up for you there and just kind of you were meant to climb and you were meant to be, you know, an ice climber. So it's awesome to see that you're here.
00:21:18:21 - 00:21:39:05
Speaker 3
Yeah. The other route that you can go is what I did where I just worked at a gear store. So I worked at Mount Equipment Co-op here in Canada. There's it's like when you're around the gear all the time, you're so stoked. Always in the gears like cheap enough that you can, like they convince yourself that you're like saving money or something, you know, like, oh, but it's like a pro deal and it's 50% off.
00:21:39:05 - 00:21:52:16
Speaker 3
And I know I said I would stop buying axes after that. I spent like, I can get this one because it's 50% off and you just like, do this like weird psychosis of convincing yourself to buy more gear. But, you know, it's worked.
00:21:53:07 - 00:21:54:10
Speaker 4
It's fantastic.
00:21:55:19 - 00:21:57:00
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:21:57:00 - 00:21:58:02
Speaker 4
Oh, it's so good.
00:21:59:01 - 00:22:08:07
Speaker 1
How how fast did you get into? So you went from you did like a sport climb with your friends in Colorado and then did you go straight to ice climbing after that?
00:22:08:17 - 00:22:09:22
Speaker 4
Well, I was gym climbing.
00:22:10:11 - 00:22:16:10
Speaker 1
Gym climbing and then ice climbing. Are you leading pretty early on or are you top up in most.
00:22:16:23 - 00:22:34:04
Speaker 2
At the gym? I learned to lead. I would say like, mm, I don't know. I don't even really know the fairly fast though I would say like it was important to me. I like, I was always like, how do I get to, to a point where I feel like I can do this independently? So that was always like the goal, like, how do I do this independently?
00:22:34:09 - 00:22:52:09
Speaker 2
I would use the cultures not really there, like it's so crazy, like out west and most jealous of a lot of like the people stories out here because like, it seems so accessible to them. We're like, I would use it felt like I was constantly working really hard to try and figure out how do I get into this sport, like how do I get into it?
00:22:52:09 - 00:23:16:23
Speaker 2
Everything's a far drive. There's not people that are like that do outdoor climbing. Like the goal is always, how do I get out into the environment to do this independently? So yeah, that's kind of the track trajectory. So like I got to the ice and then my partner Sarah and I were like, okay, how do we sport climb outside now, you know, in that sees that summer.
00:23:16:23 - 00:23:27:07
Speaker 4
Season came and we were just like, cool. Rob taught us how to make anchors and we're going to go we're going to go in sport climb, you know.
00:23:27:07 - 00:23:45:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I guess my the main direction for this question is more like leading towards your relationship with risk, because, you know, when we when we lead and, you know, in our progression of climbers, you know, top rope, being in a gym is like step one, right? Leading in a gym a step, too. And that's like the next step towards like accepting as, you know, a sense of risk.
00:23:45:17 - 00:24:03:23
Speaker 1
And then we go outside and we have to understand anchors and then we start leading outside on, you know, sport climbs and then we trad climb. And so there's like this progression of the sport. And I think that the further you get into it, the more risky or opening yourself up to. And so, you know, my main question is here is like, what's your relationship with risk?
00:24:03:23 - 00:24:14:12
Speaker 1
Like, did you have any close calls in the beginning, you know, were you scared to lead? You know, what was, you know, the first year of trad climbing like like round us that topic a little bit out for you?
00:24:14:23 - 00:24:36:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. The first thing that comes to my mind is like when I was I had just taken the lead cert in the gym as a cool. You can leave now. Literally just got it, you know. And I wasn't afraid of falling and I was like, I just need to fall, you know? Like I was like, whatever, you know, that was like climbing this.
00:24:36:13 - 00:24:52:17
Speaker 2
Like, I was like, maybe like, four laps up. I don't remember. It wasn't that far up. And I was, like, fully drawn out. I don't know why I wasn't putting it together. I was going afraid, I don't know why. And I was fully drawn out and I was like, I don't know if I could do it. And I just.
00:24:52:17 - 00:24:54:23
Speaker 4
Felt and I like was really.
00:24:54:23 - 00:24:56:02
Speaker 2
Close to the ground.
00:24:56:13 - 00:25:05:15
Speaker 4
Like very close to the ground. And that was such a bad way to start out like it was it really shook me up honestly.
00:25:05:15 - 00:25:17:12
Speaker 2
So I would say I was like, really, like ready to just just take falls and not worry about it. But then I took that giant fall and like, was like, Oh my God, I could break my ankle, Oh, I could die.
00:25:17:19 - 00:25:25:09
Speaker 4
I could hit the ground. The house hit me so hard. The real like the reality of it all.
00:25:26:03 - 00:25:30:02
Speaker 5
And then I'd say that's a huge blessing. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:30:09 - 00:25:41:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. It's a huge blessing to have that close call in such a controlled environment and to learn the lesson that Max and I learned six years down, our career is like, I'm jealous at that. That situation that you found yourself in.
00:25:42:09 - 00:25:58:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, it definitely made me a lot more conservative. Honestly, it's. I really love to hear you say that because to me especially is like, so I'm a mental health therapist. So like, I think about like I'm like, Oh my God, this created a foundation of fear and it's corrupted me, you know?
00:25:59:21 - 00:26:02:19
Speaker 4
So it's really cool to hear your perspective on it.
00:26:03:22 - 00:26:19:15
Speaker 1
No, I think that, you know, the reality of the danger of climbing is something that we have to come to terms with. And I think that there's two ways to do it. You can either, okay, there's three. You can either be super scared all the time and not really take, you know, calculated risks because you're just like, No, I'm going to kill myself.
00:26:19:15 - 00:26:45:16
Speaker 1
You know, like there's a lot of people that just don't climb at all with that mentality. And then you've got the rational people who you know are mathematical about it, and they're like, All right, let me understand the risk. Let me understand the tools and let me use those together to be a safe climber. And then you've got people like me on the left side of the spectrum and like you were before you took this fall where you're just like, Fuck it, I'm just climbing because it's sick and I'm psyched and nothing can really happen.
00:26:45:16 - 00:27:05:23
Speaker 1
You're like they said, the rope safe. Cool. They said that, you know, if you do this, you're safe. Cool. And you just kind of like, don't even really think about the consequences. And you could go a long way feeling that way because you know, you're not going to really learned your lesson until something goes wrong or you have something near next to you gets hurt or you know, you have an epiphany or something.
00:27:05:23 - 00:27:15:23
Speaker 1
So, yeah, it's it's interesting, you know, the ways we we deal with the risk and there's definitely this side of it where you can just completely overlook it. And it's like a bomb ready to go off.
00:27:16:18 - 00:27:43:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely feel like I started a lot more of a conservative place. And it's also different to like, being out east like, it was just Sarah and I getting out and trying our best to, like, get involved in the sport. Like, we didn't have like a community really, other than like, Rob, who was like 3 hours away, you know, It was I felt like like her and I were just like, Cool, we're going to go out and spear climb.
00:27:43:10 - 00:28:00:23
Speaker 2
So I think that we kept it mellow. Were there grades like there wasn't like an ego thing happening? Like, I can see a lot of times happening in the culture out here and out west, at least in our tiny world that Sarah and I were in. Like, we were just like, Let's go out and we're competing with each other in a really healthy way.
00:28:00:23 - 00:28:12:15
Speaker 2
I think like not never like in a way that felt toxic in my opinion, just in a way of like, cool, we're going to support each other and we're also going to push each other. You know, I was like, Oh, you made that one more move. I'm going to try to make that one more move.
00:28:13:18 - 00:28:14:22
Speaker 4
You know, type of thing.
00:28:16:15 - 00:28:18:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I don't even know where I was going with that, but.
00:28:19:00 - 00:28:35:16
Speaker 1
It's it sounds like you've had a pretty you know, you've had that established mentor, which is so key. It also sounds like you had a good group of a, you know, a partner. You know, you always had a great, you know, reliable partner to climb with throughout the majority of your career. Is that correct?
00:28:36:12 - 00:29:08:01
Speaker 2
So I was only like climbing in the gym in like, do like climbing with Sarah. Like that was like a pretty short lived time because I left New York around 2000. And what was it to the 1920 19? Because I've been here for almost three years around 2019 and I like left New York. I left everything behind everything and went to Southeast Asia and was there for like a half a year and like did a little bit of climbing and stuff.
00:29:08:23 - 00:29:13:10
Speaker 2
And then I moved to Utah. I like it was like, I'm going to move to Utah in a van and pursue.
00:29:13:10 - 00:29:15:23
Speaker 4
Climbing and do wilderness therapy and it's.
00:29:15:23 - 00:29:33:12
Speaker 2
Going to be awesome, which it really was. And then since then, that's like where I feel like my climbing career is actually really started, where I was able to like, really get a can like deep dive into it. It was so sporadic it felt like other than like gym climbing a couple of times a week, like that was the most consistent.
00:29:33:12 - 00:29:52:06
Speaker 2
Everything else was very sporadic. I wasn't able to do it very consistently because it wasn't accessible. It's like a three hour drive or a two hour drive to get to any climbing. So when I got back from Southeast Asia, I was like, I know I need to like the whole time I'm traveling, I'm like, This is all great and all, but I just want to climb.
00:29:52:13 - 00:29:54:08
Speaker 4
So it's like I should probably move to.
00:29:54:08 - 00:30:04:09
Speaker 2
Somewhere where there's a lot of accessible climbing, like Utah. And then since then I've just like kind of had somewhat consistent partners, but definitely they've changed quite a bit.
00:30:05:03 - 00:30:05:12
Speaker 5
Okay.
00:30:06:08 - 00:30:12:00
Speaker 1
So you've been climbing, I guess consistently for four years now. It's been since sociality.
00:30:12:09 - 00:30:13:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I would say. Right. Okay. Yeah.
00:30:14:04 - 00:30:15:02
Speaker 1
Well, it's not that long.
00:30:15:19 - 00:30:38:03
Speaker 2
No, not at all. I've been. And then like, you're talking about like, like how I got into, like, tried climbing, like. Yeah. So I was like sport climbing. Like the first bit of me being here. And I've only been leading Trad since August, not this past August before that. So I had just reached my year mark before the wrestling.
00:30:38:04 - 00:30:38:23
Speaker 5
Wow.
00:30:39:09 - 00:30:45:01
Speaker 2
Okay, that's kind of crazy. Wow, great. But there was a lot like, I got a lot of mileage in.
00:30:45:20 - 00:30:46:12
Speaker 5
Yeah, you.
00:30:46:12 - 00:30:47:15
Speaker 1
Can do a lot in a year.
00:30:48:07 - 00:31:08:09
Speaker 2
I feel like I did a time that one year I feel like I did so much. Like I bopped around a lot and took some time off of work and really got like what felt like a good concentration of different areas and stuff. But so yeah, and then it's interesting, 2021 was kind of a big year for me.
00:31:08:11 - 00:31:13:13
Speaker 2
So I started leading ICE in December that year. So like kind of whole year for me.
00:31:14:09 - 00:31:15:14
Speaker 1
Oh yeah. Congrats.
00:31:15:14 - 00:31:17:22
Speaker 2
So I just reached that year. Mark Pretty exciting.
00:31:18:00 - 00:31:18:08
Speaker 1
Nice.
00:31:18:17 - 00:31:19:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:31:19:15 - 00:31:20:04
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:31:20:11 - 00:31:42:02
Speaker 1
So before we transfer to, you know, the story, the rescue, you know, we led, you know, your background up almost to a pinnacle here to the present day. And I'm interested, you know, to give people perspective on who you are as a climber and, you know, performing this rescue and you know the details. We're going to go into it.
00:31:42:10 - 00:31:58:06
Speaker 1
I'm interested in hearing, you know, what kind of climber are you now with, like today sitting in this chair? What kind of grades are you climbing? You know, we've established your years of experience and that you're leading. So talk to us a little bit about the grades, your favorite kind of climbing and then whether you soloed or not.
00:31:58:19 - 00:32:19:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, cool. So I very much so identify as ice climbing is my number one love. Tried climbing being number two, I don't really sport climb much anymore, but I find a lot of value in it and they think it's going to help with my climbing a lot if I can put some time into it.
00:32:19:07 - 00:32:19:17
Speaker 4
To be.
00:32:19:17 - 00:32:22:01
Speaker 5
Honest, that's a typical tragedy club.
00:32:22:03 - 00:32:24:07
Speaker 1
To try climbers response is like our boulder.
00:32:24:07 - 00:32:25:05
Speaker 5
Maybe it's.
00:32:25:16 - 00:32:28:14
Speaker 1
Train. I don't know.
00:32:28:14 - 00:32:29:05
Speaker 4
But yeah.
00:32:29:05 - 00:32:30:16
Speaker 2
I like kind of false.
00:32:30:16 - 00:32:31:13
Speaker 4
Ended when I.
00:32:31:22 - 00:32:50:13
Speaker 2
Started leading try to ascend it so where I'm at and like what I like to do is I've very much so gravitate to big, long days. I want to get in the Alpine. I want to like, have like multiple steps. I want to like, put the effort into like backpacking deep in and then, you know, like I loved the winds type of thing.
00:32:52:04 - 00:33:18:17
Speaker 2
But regardless of all of that, like, I just love Multipage. I love shoving my body into cracks in all sorts of different ways. And like some of my favorite places that I've been in is like 70. And like I mentioned, when like Tetons, Lone Peak, Cirque or Pretty SWE, lots of granite. However, I feel like I've got to like a lot of diverse experience as far as rock type goes.
00:33:18:17 - 00:33:43:00
Speaker 2
Utah's fantastic for that, but also just like bopping around as far as like ice goes, I'm really excited to be leading for right now. And that's like was kind of like a super big goal for this season. That started out well and I've been really excited that I've my partner, my climbing partner Paul and I have been like stoked on dry.
00:33:43:00 - 00:33:47:14
Speaker 4
Tooling because the ice is really bad right now in Utah.
00:33:47:14 - 00:34:07:14
Speaker 2
So we've been getting out, makes climbing and like the five and six range has been really quite engaging. So exciting for us. So that's kind of where I'm at and I think that's, that's super important as far as like grades for like Trad goes, it's important to mention because I really want people to know that I'm.
00:34:07:14 - 00:34:10:16
Speaker 4
Just a regular Joe, like I'm now Super Sandy.
00:34:10:23 - 00:34:45:14
Speaker 2
I'm really proud to like be leading some tens in little Cottonwood Canyon, which can be like a pretty stiff area. And I got on some elevens in the Indian Creek. It wasn't super pretty, but, you know, like I'm really excited to be like pushing myself in ways, but most of the time, like, like, not like five, nine and Little Cottonwood or like Tens and Indian Creek is kind of where I sit in like, that's like, like I'm like on sighting, like type of grade for me or like, it can be at least I can't say every time, but, you know, like, I'm not crazy.
00:34:45:14 - 00:34:57:13
Speaker 2
Sandy And I think that that's really important for this story. And to preface with that, because I really want to emphasize that like, like anyone, like if you have the skills, like, you could do this too, you know?
00:34:59:07 - 00:35:19:18
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah. No, I think that it you know, grades are, you know, crucial to the sport and you can be a climber without chasing grades and that's not the point. But they do speak so much to who we are and what we can accomplish. And with each kind of grade, there is a level of intensity and a level of experience that goes with that tag and it means something.
00:35:19:18 - 00:35:44:21
Speaker 1
And so I think it's important for people to know and like you said, you know, we're all the climbing majority here. We're not, you know, pushing these you know, we're not pushing the sport. We're not climbing 513 plus, you know, we're here to enjoy the sport and push ourselves and, you know, like you said, anybody can be there for other people with a level of skill set that we all can can have as a climber.
00:35:44:21 - 00:35:55:04
Speaker 1
And yeah, I mean, just leading that right into, you know, what happened, we're we're sitting down here because how long ago was it? About two months now, too.
00:35:55:10 - 00:36:01:23
Speaker 2
So it was two days after Thanksgiving. And right now, okay, January 9th. So month and a half.
00:36:02:00 - 00:36:14:22
Speaker 1
Inch and a half. Yeah, a month and a half. Yeah. I mean, how to start this story? I don't know if I want to, like, back around it or just dive into the play by play starting right? Max, what do you think?
00:36:16:00 - 00:36:24:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, I don't know. Why don't like. Why don't you just explain what happened, River? You know, like what, What were you doing and what's, what's kind of the deal. What happened.
00:36:24:08 - 00:36:26:03
Speaker 2
So it all started with creeks giving.
00:36:29:06 - 00:36:29:21
Speaker 5
Started like.
00:36:29:21 - 00:36:33:07
Speaker 3
The turkey dinner.
00:36:33:07 - 00:36:35:20
Speaker 5
I'm going to need some sound effects. Yeah.
00:36:37:04 - 00:36:37:11
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00:36:37:17 - 00:36:40:04
Speaker 2
So my actually.
00:36:40:04 - 00:36:43:03
Speaker 4
It's so funny. Kendra comes into the story again. She is the.
00:36:43:03 - 00:36:45:12
Speaker 2
Gal that introduced me to the mountains at the beginning or.
00:36:45:16 - 00:36:48:15
Speaker 4
During my struggle bus. So Kendra and I.
00:36:48:22 - 00:37:10:08
Speaker 2
Have been long friends and sisters for a long time, so Kendra was coming to visit and her and her husband were going to meet me in the creek. Kendra doesn't really climb, but other people came out too, though, and we got a little bit of climbing in. But really it was about like having an experience with a community and like we did some fire spinning and stuff.
00:37:10:08 - 00:37:39:19
Speaker 2
It's fun anyways. And so afterwards, after leaving the creek, I really wanted to spend quality time with just Kendra and she likes to mountain bike. So I was like, they were like, Let's go mountain bike. And so like, that sounds like a great way to connect. And especially because I hadn't seen her in a while. So we to King Creek and we rode like we literally had just left the creek and run up into the trailhead.
00:37:40:13 - 00:38:03:02
Speaker 2
I can creek, which is like right by Moab, and we're gearing up for our mountain bike ride and I swear we are just about to leave. We're about to leave. This is so crazy to me. Like maybe 5 minutes after he crashed, we would have been gone, you know, nobody else. So I think that's pretty astonishing that we were still there and I wasn't gone.
00:38:04:16 - 00:38:15:03
Speaker 1
Was there any specific thing that, like, held you back that you look back on and you're like, Wow, the universe literally just like, took its hand and like, stopped us from moving for like 5 minutes. Did anything like that happen?
00:38:15:03 - 00:38:38:00
Speaker 2
It's interesting that you say that her and I were having a pretty good heart talk, like we were having a conversation that was like like we were checking in with each other and having a heart to heart that like, needed time and space. And I guess that's what was happening when her husband came into my van and was like, You guys wouldn't believe it, like a base jumper just crash.
00:38:38:00 - 00:39:10:03
Speaker 2
And I was like, Let's what do you say? Yeah. And then we got out of the van. I look up at this person like it was pretty far from the trailhead, so I couldn't see like super well. But it's very clear that there's like red parachute is hanging, hanging so delicately, like from the rock in the distance. And like, it's one of those things where, like, you're looking at it and you're like, I don't feel like I should be watching because like, like this dude's going to fall at any point in time, but like, you can't stop watching.
00:39:10:03 - 00:39:34:05
Speaker 2
And like, I ended up saying out loud, I was like, Please, great divine, like, help this person. Which illustrates how removed I felt from the situation at the point. Like, I felt very distanced from it and it really wasn't much longer after that that like, like at that point I think I remember being like, do I need to like, is that a neighbor?
00:39:34:05 - 00:40:03:13
Speaker 2
Do you have like, did anybody associate like, what's happening? There was like some communication about someone already doing that. But then shortly after that, that's when a stranger just came to the parking lot. It was like, Does anybody have rock climbing gear? It was like looking for somebody. And I was like, I've got a double rack and like a couple of harnesses and what used to be a 70 meter wrote down to 69 meters rope.
00:40:03:13 - 00:40:08:20
Speaker 2
And I packed it all up and then he ran away with it, which was crazy.
00:40:08:20 - 00:40:09:03
Speaker 5
Whoa.
00:40:09:10 - 00:40:13:23
Speaker 2
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Stranger just took thousands of dollars of my gear.
00:40:14:14 - 00:40:17:03
Speaker 5
Okay? Yeah.
00:40:17:03 - 00:40:35:15
Speaker 2
And it's at this point in time, I had no clue who this person was. I thought he was like this, like, really awesome, like, climber that was just going to go up and get this person. I didn't even know there was a crack below the person. I didn't know what it looks like up there. It's too far away to see.
00:40:35:15 - 00:40:58:17
Speaker 2
But he ran away and he was like, Bring anything else that we might have forgotten for both of us to like, be prepared and I climbed out of or I changed out of all my mountain biking gear into my climbing gear and packed a bag with like food, water, a puffy first aid, like simple first aid stuff that I carry around.
00:40:58:17 - 00:41:19:15
Speaker 2
And I just looked like so fast. I had never been to this place, so I didn't even know there was no track. Like I didn't know where the trail was. And I just like blind. And I was like doing some weird, like bouldering moves and sandstone, like I was doing all sorts of stuff, just like my lungs are burning.
00:41:19:15 - 00:41:50:01
Speaker 2
I remember, like, trying to get there as fast as I could. But I think like, I think an important part that like I remember telling you, Kyle, like, I forget how important it is to me to really emphasize that this stranger coming to me like he was the catalyst for us to have the fire lit underneath us, to get things done at a time like really quite quickly, like it did not take long for him to come to the parking lot and take action.
00:41:51:00 - 00:42:12:03
Speaker 2
He had jumped before his friend that had crashed, so it was his friend hanging up in the air. He had jumped three for him because he's a base jumper also. And then he watched the crash happen of his friend and almost responded to come into the parking lot. And I think that there's a lot to be said about like responding to timeliness.
00:42:12:04 - 00:42:19:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, like it's quite incredible and I think it gets overlooked. You know, in some ways he.
00:42:19:00 - 00:42:30:07
Speaker 1
Did it when he approached you. Did he like it sounded like he asked for climbing gear, but did he allude to the fact that you were going to be the Blair as well, or did you just take off with the climbing gear with no plan?
00:42:30:14 - 00:42:37:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, it was pretty much like like you have climbing skills. Cool. Meet me up there. And I was like, cool.
00:42:37:06 - 00:42:40:05
Speaker 4
And latest guy. What's happening?
00:42:40:23 - 00:42:41:10
Speaker 5
Yeah.
00:42:41:23 - 00:42:44:23
Speaker 4
So I was like this is crazy, you know? Like, it wasn't really.
00:42:44:23 - 00:43:07:14
Speaker 2
Like it was like we're going to. He was just being prompt, which I think is a great way to respond. You know, we don't need to make a plan until we make a need to make a plan type of thing. Like let's just get everything that we need and get there, which makes a lot of sense now that like, you know, getting up there and like trying make a plan on the spot, I was like, Oh, okay, we need to reassess.
00:43:07:14 - 00:43:12:00
Speaker 4
Your plan is actually what happened.
00:43:12:00 - 00:43:22:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, so when you guys got to the base of, of this chaotic situation, like what what did it feel like? What did it look like? Was the guy unconscious? Still?
00:43:22:03 - 00:43:31:12
Speaker 2
I don't recall anybody knowing whether or not he was conscious. So I don't think any of us knew what state he was in at all whatsoever at that he.
00:43:31:12 - 00:43:34:03
Speaker 1
Wasn't really giving you any signs of being conscious.
00:43:34:04 - 00:43:39:11
Speaker 2
He was kind of dangling. Yeah. Yeah, it was quite scary. There's a lot of blood on the rock.
00:43:40:08 - 00:43:51:07
Speaker 3
Wow. How far up was he? So, like, you're you're like, at the base of the climb, and, you know, there's this kind of guy, like a like I'm imagining, like, precariously, like, hung up there, Right? So how high up was he?
00:43:52:02 - 00:44:24:20
Speaker 2
Around 80 to 100 feet is my estimate error. Some people look at the pictures and they're like, that looks higher than 80 feet. But like, you know, just being on the conservative side, I would say 80 to 100 feet is probably pretty accurate. Um, so he's pretty up there. He's definitely very much like dangling. He I now know he was like in and out of consciousness, almost instantly lost consciousness when he hit the wall before he had slid down and the parachute had caught in.
00:44:24:20 - 00:44:49:18
Speaker 2
So I'm not really looking at him a ton when I get there. I'm just responding. So we're like, I'm like unpacking my I see my pack and I'm like, we're unpacking it. We're gearing up right now. Like, I was almost instantly in girl mode the second I got there, which I think it's a beautiful, fascinating thing that the human body has capacity to just like respond, you know?
00:44:49:18 - 00:45:10:07
Speaker 2
So I started to taking out my gear and such, and I started just like honestly giving Justin is the name of my player, the guy that jumped before the guy I saved. And now I didn't know his name at the time, but now I do. Anyways, I start asking him like, and telling him like, Hey, this is my resumé.
00:45:10:07 - 00:45:18:16
Speaker 2
I want you to know that I'm safe. BLAIR Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is what I got going on. What's your deal? He's like, I'm a sport climber, and my plan.
00:45:19:00 - 00:45:19:18
Speaker 4
To.
00:45:20:04 - 00:45:42:13
Speaker 2
Like, aid climb this, then this, like, been seemed that looked like maybe, like, sustained point three, maybe point to, like it was tiny and like, it had some variation to it, but it was mostly like tiny, tiny gear and it was real. It was like 30, maybe 40 feet to the right of him. And I'm just like, doesn't make any sense to me.
00:45:42:13 - 00:45:46:08
Speaker 2
And Justin is a spectacular sport climber. I've climbed with him.
00:45:46:08 - 00:45:55:09
Speaker 4
He's very competent sport, but he is not a tried climber. And that's when it hit me that.
00:45:55:09 - 00:46:20:01
Speaker 2
This perfect crack that was below the base jumper, like almost perfectly below him was going to be the best way. And that I was the only one there too. That was like, I'm a crack climber, this is what I do and I'm going to get this done. And I don't know if I can get to the top, but I'm sure as hell going to try and so that's when everything shifted.
00:46:20:06 - 00:46:39:09
Speaker 2
I delegated a task to a girl. I was like, Can you go flake the rope? And I started gearing up my everything I had, I had I had doubles in point three, two, three, and then I had singles in .1. to a number four, and I had just bought a number five, which very helpful.
00:46:39:19 - 00:46:40:17
Speaker 3
Wow, That's sick.
00:46:40:17 - 00:46:41:18
Speaker 5
Yeah. Yeah, it's.
00:46:42:08 - 00:46:42:23
Speaker 4
Easy.
00:46:43:04 - 00:47:18:11
Speaker 2
It's so crazy. Some of the things that aligned for everything to work out the way that it did, it's like actually so insane. So yeah, I geared up and then I walked up to the crack and that's when it really hit me like, Oh, I am directly below a very delicately dangling bloody body. Like, that's when I first saw all the blood on the rock, and that's when I was like, okay, I can't I'm not going to tie my knot.
00:47:19:16 - 00:47:20:19
Speaker 4
Directly below.
00:47:20:19 - 00:47:26:20
Speaker 2
The crack. You know, I like off to the side, you know, kind of like you do. And you're like, setting up for an ice ballet.
00:47:26:21 - 00:47:27:07
Speaker 4
You're like.
00:47:27:13 - 00:47:31:15
Speaker 2
I'm going to get out of the way, you know, of everything. Yeah.
00:47:32:14 - 00:47:35:05
Speaker 4
So I'm like.
00:47:36:02 - 00:47:48:22
Speaker 2
All tied in. I'm ready to go up. And then I, like, stop for a second and I go, Wait a second, What's your name? Like? Ask my ass, my boy or Justin? My name's Justin. I was like, What's that guy's name? I like pointing up to the.
00:47:48:22 - 00:47:49:11
Speaker 4
Person in.
00:47:49:11 - 00:48:00:00
Speaker 2
The air. And I was like, I honestly, I prayed. I guess I was just like, Great, Divine, please help us like you help us all out right now. As I cool.
00:48:00:20 - 00:48:04:04
Speaker 4
I'm going up and I have. And then I went up.
00:48:04:04 - 00:48:29:11
Speaker 2
And honestly, I don't remember being stressed. I don't remember being rushed. I don't remember anything but just doing. And that's just so fascinating to me. I was just doing what I do, zoned in. I did a lot of mixture of aid climbing and a little bit of free climbing. This crack was so clearly never climbed before. It was completely disgusting.
00:48:29:11 - 00:48:44:19
Speaker 2
It's sandstone, there's sand everywhere, handholds are popping off, feet are like slipping off. It's like a slip and slide on this thing. Jeez. And so I had just learned how to aid climb like two.
00:48:44:19 - 00:48:48:18
Speaker 4
Weeks before on Touchstone Wall in Zion.
00:48:49:00 - 00:48:50:18
Speaker 2
Shout out to Luke, my friend.
00:48:50:22 - 00:48:52:00
Speaker 4
Help me out with that.
00:48:52:11 - 00:49:26:18
Speaker 2
And that was super helpful to get this done in a timely, efficient manner, I think. And it wasn't until about like halfway up the climb that I started breathing, I thought it was like snoring. But I later on found out that it was just like him, heavily breathing too. He actually like like was breathing and actually like hearing me at that point in time because I started screaming things like and when I knew he was breathing and he was possibly contest, I was like, You're a bad ass.
00:49:26:18 - 00:49:28:18
Speaker 2
You got this, I'm coming.
00:49:28:19 - 00:49:30:01
Speaker 4
You know, things like that.
00:49:30:15 - 00:49:31:07
Speaker 5
Thank you.
00:49:31:13 - 00:49:38:07
Speaker 4
Probably partially for him, but also personally for me. You know, I was like, trying to, like you know, cope with the whole thing.
00:49:38:07 - 00:50:05:07
Speaker 2
Probably. I was also saying, when I'm scared, I sing. At times I was like, really kind of sketchy with the gear. Like, I think I remember singing like the helicopter came in a little bit too early and I was like getting blasted with sand from the wind and I can't talk to my player, which is really stressful. And I can't make any appropriate action because like I had taken on my last piece and like, can't move.
00:50:05:07 - 00:50:19:02
Speaker 2
And then like also there's like this delicate parachute hanging by what feels like threads. Quite a sketchy time. I remember singing, Hey there, Delilah, during that time.
00:50:19:02 - 00:50:21:15
Speaker 4
That's my that's why I'm scared.
00:50:21:15 - 00:50:26:16
Speaker 3
Song That's Maroon five oh.
00:50:27:02 - 00:50:29:15
Speaker 4
Oh in a plane which is that it's like.
00:50:29:20 - 00:50:31:03
Speaker 1
Okay, it's in.
00:50:31:04 - 00:50:32:13
Speaker 4
Song. It's so funny.
00:50:32:13 - 00:50:33:17
Speaker 5
That it is.
00:50:36:23 - 00:50:37:09
Speaker 4
So.
00:50:37:11 - 00:50:57:02
Speaker 1
In the in the in the midst like just talk to us a little bit about the logistics of like how much gear you're saving for building anchors like your thought process on mitigating the, the, the risk like how much are you spacing out the gear it seems like where you worried about the gear pulling because it was so slippery.
00:50:57:11 - 00:51:03:07
Speaker 1
You know, talk to us a little bit about your mindset and your your plan for handling the gear side of it.
00:51:03:12 - 00:51:33:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I definitely was really sketched by some of the gear. It's hard to tell what's rock and what's going to break off at times. So I think not rushing was extremely important. Like really reminding myself to just be present and like, like I was saying, like I wasn't thinking a ton about, like, consequences or like, I wasn't thinking about this guy hanging there very often.
00:51:34:02 - 00:52:01:18
Speaker 2
I was mostly just completely zoned into the task and like being really mindful about like, like placing safe gear and like, really taking my time with that. I also I was I really am so grateful for the variety of the size of this crack. First of all, that's like my favorite type of like sandstone climb to do or like clams in general is I love very Asian.
00:52:01:18 - 00:52:17:10
Speaker 2
I'm not saying I was having fun while this was happening, but I'm excited to return to it for this reason. But it like starts in hand. It gets a little bit wider like threes fours, and then it's like fives and like, get your body in it. At least this is what I remember in my trauma brain. Who knows?
00:52:17:16 - 00:52:19:10
Speaker 2
But and then it like.
00:52:19:21 - 00:52:21:21
Speaker 4
And then you like pull out on some jugs.
00:52:21:21 - 00:52:47:19
Speaker 2
And then it's like a thin seam that's like really quite tiny, but it's got like these pockets of like point seven, 5.5 in like, like place that weird not that. Yeah. And then, and then there's like this like two foot roof and then that's like a super teeny like point to seam and then where I built the anchor, I was able to build it with like a three, a one in a not so great point four, but it was the best thing I had.
00:52:48:11 - 00:53:09:06
Speaker 2
But the three in the one were completely bomber, so the variety was super helpful. So I didn't have to do a lot of like crazy thinking about like saving certain things because honestly, it was hard to assess like where I was going to make the anchor what was like. A lot of it was just like, Figure it out as you go.
00:53:09:06 - 00:53:28:07
Speaker 2
You'll figure it out, you know? And I had this weird piece of mind that like, I was just going to figure it out as I go. You know, there wasn't a lot of time to think about, like, planning a ton as far as like where I was going to make the anchor and such just because it was kind of hard to tell, to be honest.
00:53:28:15 - 00:53:47:07
Speaker 2
So the variety of the crack was super helpful. I do remember doing like maybe one or two times some back cleaning to make sure I had I wasn't completely out of a size or something like that, which I think was helpful. Um, that's kind of.
00:53:47:07 - 00:53:47:16
Speaker 4
The.
00:53:47:16 - 00:54:14:12
Speaker 2
The, the extent I think of like the thought process of like what was going on. There were some spots where like, like when I got my whole body in it, I didn't have like a six or anything. So like, there's a good, decent size, like I wouldn't call it run out per say, but like decent gap there. But a lot of it was like pretty conservative gaps because I was having to aid a lot of it with it being so crumbly.
00:54:15:12 - 00:54:17:01
Speaker 5
Mm hmm.
00:54:17:01 - 00:54:35:15
Speaker 3
And so did you have like, a game plan for for, like, load transferring? How are you were going to get the person down like, you know, you've kind of climbed there. You said you got an anchor in like what? Like, you know, take us through that a little bit about that. What what what were you going through when when once you started to get that anchor in?
00:54:35:15 - 00:55:02:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I actually would love to start for that process. I would love to start like a little bit lower. So when I got like almost I level with him, like where I was like level with his body. I got him clipped into the anchor and lower anchor that I built and I had equalized a couple pieces like in that like .75 pod in the point five pod for whatever else it was.
00:55:02:16 - 00:55:33:07
Speaker 2
I don't remember exactly. I was able to equalize a couple of pieces and get him clipped into something before I transferred the weight. That was extremely important because now everybody is like, Oh my gosh, thank goodness, you know, because everybody's watching. Like at any point in time, this guy is going to drop. Like before I even went up, like just him was like, Hey, if I your rock just just, you know, like, that means that he's coming down, you know, like my like that was a thought.
00:55:33:07 - 00:56:04:09
Speaker 2
Like, I'm going to talk in, in like, just brace and, like, be as close to the rock as possible, hoping hopefully he doesn't hit me or fall on me and I'm just not going to look as long as it takes. And so like to not have that be part of the process anymore by getting him clipped in was extremely important, but I knew at that point in time and I, I had gotten some feedback from below to it because there was some communication happening, like definitely need to get higher in order for the weight to appropriately transfer.
00:56:04:09 - 00:56:28:17
Speaker 2
So I was able to get higher than him by a little bit. And in that honestly perfect spot for the anchor, which was great and when I was planning for how I was going to transfer the way that was purely like problem solving, pulling from my toolbox of like I had read a self rescue book about what mountaineer or something.
00:56:28:17 - 00:56:51:23
Speaker 2
I can't remember exactly what their company is, but I had read that practice a lot of low skills, like just like in my van, you know, nothing like formal. I have no formal rescue training at all whatsoever. Like I've definitely pulled from other skills during other like city missions from like freedom of the hills, like a lot of dif, you know, there's a lot of good resources that I've definitely spent some time with.
00:56:51:23 - 00:57:15:11
Speaker 2
And I knew that I wanted him book between my legs for the lower. And so I, I had used lockers on my belay loop in a lockers on he had a weight bearing loop on his chest harness so base our base jumpers have like full body harnesses and on each of their chest they have like a weight bearing loop loop.
00:57:15:11 - 00:57:37:14
Speaker 2
And just him was able to communicate with me where I should clip. And so I clipped him and had him connected to my boy loop with the sling. And then I started prepping for. Yeah, the weight transfer, which was like kind of like a crazy moment of truth, to be honest. Crazy feel.
00:57:38:16 - 00:57:56:16
Speaker 3
Did you like at any point while that was happening, have like, any, like, really dark thoughts going through your mind, like he was going to die or you're going to drop him or any kind of thing like that? Like what? What kind of shape was he in? You know, like, like, was there like, like, visible, like injuries that he was like, you know, beyond the blood, like, look, like, really banged up.
00:57:56:16 - 00:57:58:18
Speaker 3
Like, why don't you just take me through that a little bit?
00:57:59:10 - 00:58:25:12
Speaker 2
They when I around the time when I got I level with him is when I like around anger one that's around the time that it really started to hit me that like, oh this person is like in a lot of pain and is in a life threatening situation. It's funny, like, I knew it while I was climbing. I as you know, as I tell the story, like it's clear I knew it.
00:58:25:17 - 00:58:44:17
Speaker 2
But it wasn't until that moment that stress response her and was like all of a sudden feeling like this pressure to like to, to like Rush because he's begging me now he's like, please help me get the weight off my leg. His femur is broken in a bunch of places and he's got a compound fracture, so he's bleeding.
00:58:44:17 - 00:59:09:13
Speaker 2
That's where the blood's coming from. It's like his harness is like actually creating, like a natural tourniquet, which is like, amazing. That was happening. And because of the weight, the way that the weight is all on that one leg. And he had like a pretty beat up base because I think he broke his nose. And you had like some other like, like cuts and things happening.
00:59:11:02 - 00:59:20:16
Speaker 2
But so he was in a lot of pain. Yeah. And that really hit me hard, you know, I was like, I got to get this person out of here. Like, I got flooded with stress at that point.
00:59:21:17 - 00:59:38:09
Speaker 1
I read a read in the article. Was he like, screaming? Was he like, like, you know, did you the way you say like, please help my leg? It seems so calm and and matter of fact, like, was it much more like dire and like, just gut wrenching. Very kind of situation.
00:59:38:10 - 00:59:48:23
Speaker 2
That's such a good question. It, like, blows my mind how not intensely loud or anything. It was very much so like a him and I conversation. He was like, please.
00:59:50:12 - 00:59:52:23
Speaker 4
Please get the weight off my leg.
00:59:52:23 - 01:00:16:08
Speaker 2
Please get the weight off my leg. Like, like she didn't make much noise other than that, to be honest and honestly, like, I had to, like, tune him out. I had to completely tune him out because that stress response was happening, which was making me rush, which I was afraid I was going to make a bad choice. So I just started saying completely out loud, Take your time, please save gear, take your time, please.
01:00:16:08 - 01:00:42:11
Speaker 2
Safe gear, take your time, place safe gear. Not as quickly as that, but that that be kind of like became like the mantra to kind of like, keep my cool because I was really I've my heart started racing and like, I, I really started to feel like last night, not less present, but like less zoned in, I guess you could say, which was honestly, I believe, the most stressful part.
01:00:42:11 - 01:00:45:08
Speaker 2
I would say yeah. And then.
01:00:45:09 - 01:00:55:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a lot easier to manage it, but when you're by yourself, but then you get such close proximity with and you get to see the reality of the whole situation, it can be easy to get pulled out of that. I can imagine.
01:00:55:15 - 01:01:03:14
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. And just like the humanness of the fact that, oh, this is a human here.
01:01:03:17 - 01:01:04:14
Speaker 4
Know this is a.
01:01:04:14 - 01:01:18:18
Speaker 2
Human here that's very much so in pain. Like, I mean, honestly, I know is a human when I'm on the ground, but it's very different. You know, it's crazy like you're making eye contact with this person that's going to, you know, be my friend forever, you know.
01:01:19:08 - 01:01:26:11
Speaker 5
To.
01:01:26:11 - 01:01:30:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, no, no option anymore. You know, it's like forever. I got.
01:01:30:08 - 01:01:32:14
Speaker 5
You.
01:01:32:14 - 01:01:42:03
Speaker 4
Because, like, Lori came in, like, there's some videos and I'm like, Yeah, we're friends now. We're going to have a drink some day and laugh about this. And this is happening now.
01:01:42:03 - 01:01:42:19
Speaker 2
We're friends.
01:01:43:11 - 01:02:05:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's that's pretty official. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really interesting what you were saying, where you're like, you know, take your time, place safe care, take your time, place safe gear, because you know, like I'm not experienced in SA or anything. I do have like my woofer and my EMR and you know, I think like goal number one is to not have to casualties.
01:02:05:01 - 01:02:27:07
Speaker 3
You know, it's like you've got to not have a second incident and there's like a pretty prevalent term I think in the military which is like slow as smooth and smooth as fast, I think. And it's like it's really true, right? It's like you have this immediacy. It's so easy to get wrapped up in the situation and and to have, you know, the adrenaline running, the heart rate going and things going really fast.
01:02:27:07 - 01:02:48:14
Speaker 3
But in reality, it's like you just you just need to be methodical. You got to do things right. You know, you you do them once and you do them right and you get the job done and you just be consistent because the slowest thing is when you rush and then you fuck up, you know, and in this case, you know, drop him or, you know, pull your gear, your anchor or whatever, like, you know, catastrophe happen.
01:02:48:14 - 01:03:03:17
Speaker 3
So, yeah, I just think that's really interesting. Was that like, like, did that feel like something natural to you, that that was just the right thing in the moment? Or was that like you have received training and you just felt like, you know, you needed to do that from like some some other like state of learning.
01:03:04:10 - 01:03:28:17
Speaker 2
And, you know, I think that it's hard to point to one thing in general, like specifically. But, you know, I've worked a lot on mental health that look like a lot of different settings of like dealing with emotional and physical crises, like a lot of different types of crises and in all different shapes and forms. I think that that helps in general with a strategy for keeping your cool.
01:03:28:17 - 01:03:53:03
Speaker 2
You know, I think that life in general in different ways, like difficult experiences, all sorts of shapes and forms have shaped those skills to just like, how do you keep your cool the type of thing as of my work for to, I don't know, like I think that in general that gets you in a mindset of like, okay, I, I can respond to things, you know, and like, how do I do that?
01:03:53:03 - 01:04:04:06
Speaker 2
Like in a way that's going to be helpful and not harmful. You know? And I know that like, yeah, all of those things I think, come together. It's not one thing, it's all the things.
01:04:04:06 - 01:04:23:04
Speaker 1
I think how precarious was his situation? You know, you were the one who saw it. You're the one who were there. Like, was it dramatic? Like the movies were like it was like sliding, you know, And like, he was body his weight was shifting around or like, tell us a little bit about, like, just how precarious it was.
01:04:24:10 - 01:04:46:15
Speaker 2
I don't think I knew how precarious it was until after seeing the footage in the in the images. I at least it didn't set in how precarious it was, him shifting around as he gotten more and more in pain. He's trying really hard to, like, pull himself up at times to get the weight off of his leg, you know?
01:04:47:00 - 01:05:05:16
Speaker 2
And that's terrifying to me. Now, you know, at the time, I, I don't even remember like seeing him doing it because I'm so focused on what I need to do. Like, you don't think I'm not thinking about him at all. I'm thinking about how do I get him out here? What do I need to do to get him out of here type of thing?
01:05:05:22 - 01:05:31:06
Speaker 2
So I'm not thinking about his situation, but when I think about it now, like he's shifting around like, well, this parachute is literally on a corner until, like, there's, like, this like ledge and the parachute is, like, ever so slightly on the corner of this ledge. And it's just his weight of the downward pull that's holding him there.
01:05:31:11 - 01:06:05:00
Speaker 2
I've topped out on this ledge and been like, There's nothing here. Like, I was expecting like a boulder, a bulge, like something that would make sense. And I like was like, I don't understand what like what it was on. And then when I look at the images now, I'm like, it was just his weight pulling like down the downward pressure that was holding it on the corner of this like ledge, which is terrifying and like coming back to like the moment of truth when I started like cutting lines.
01:06:05:12 - 01:06:30:11
Speaker 2
So that kind of illustrates it too. So like what had happened when it came to the time of like cutting lines is, first of all, he's in a spaghetti mess of parachute lines. And I don't know how many parachute lines there are. And I'm like, terrified that I'm going to cut him free from those three dangly like, dainty lines that are like literally shoelace sized.
01:06:30:11 - 01:06:45:19
Speaker 2
Those are the three that are holding his weight. I'm afraid if I cut those last three, that he'll be caught in a different line. And now he's below me because he's on my belay loop with this double sling, right? So I'm like, worried he's going to be like, you know, caught an arm or like, worse, his neck. I don't know.
01:06:45:19 - 01:07:05:02
Speaker 2
I was just terrified. Something like wouldn't go as planned. So I just start cutting every single line I could find. And I'm just like, cutting, like, everything. I don't know if I'm cutting him twice. I don't even know. I'm just, like, cut everything, untangle him, get everything. Like, I just felt like Edward Scissorhands, Like.
01:07:05:02 - 01:07:08:06
Speaker 5
Exactly.
01:07:08:06 - 01:07:13:10
Speaker 4
I told him, I'm like, I don't know what's happening, so I'm just going to cut everything, you know?
01:07:14:17 - 01:07:15:20
Speaker 5
Oh, God.
01:07:16:05 - 01:07:34:04
Speaker 2
And then it's like you're saying like. Like what it was like to cut those last three lines. I was like, I didn't want to do it. That's the feeling. It was like, I'm not I don't want to do this. I'm doing it, you know, And cut those last three. Yeah. Like I, I trusted the anchor. I was. I had my weight on it already.
01:07:34:04 - 01:07:48:10
Speaker 2
Right. But it's a whole different thing when you got a whole nother body swinging on to it. You know, even the best anchor in the world. I'm going to think about it. And I do think this was a pretty bomber anchor. But still, you're going to think about it and I was so grateful when it went well.
01:07:48:10 - 01:07:50:08
Speaker 4
And the route.
01:07:50:17 - 01:08:13:10
Speaker 2
Was like, I got a jet out like two feet or something. I don't remember exactly, but it it made it so that he didn't like smack into the wall, which was fantastic. But yet we start getting lowered and coming back to the delicacy of the parachute. I want to say like we've lowered like two feet and that whole thing came down like it just fell on us.
01:08:13:18 - 01:08:32:03
Speaker 2
Like it was so delicate. It did not take much for this parachute to slip off. And to this day gives me chills because, like, again, in the moment, I'm not thinking about consequences. I'm not think like I know that there's like delicate situation happening, but I'm not thinking about like the fact that this person's life is at stake.
01:08:32:03 - 01:08:40:22
Speaker 2
Like, if I let myself think about that, that's not going to be helpful for me getting the job done. So to watch those videos now, it shakes me up.
01:08:42:09 - 01:08:52:20
Speaker 1
So this is a little bit off topic. Yeah. Did you guys ever see the video? It was cruising around. I think it was on YouTube. You can find it. It's this ice climber, soloist who's going up.
01:08:53:01 - 01:08:53:14
Speaker 2
The ice.
01:08:53:14 - 01:09:14:12
Speaker 1
And it's like, yeah, it's like water is going down and there's a climbing party that's attached, so there's water underneath the ice. The film is looking down, down the ice at the guy who's soloing and the climbing party's attached to an anchor. And this guy is soloing up this like pitch and it's like, so watery. The ice is like, the sun's out.
01:09:14:12 - 01:09:32:08
Speaker 1
This guy clearly, like, did not plan it well enough and he is like, stuck and he's like, swinging desperately and the ice is chipping away and literally. Long story short, they lower a rope to him. And right as he clips the rope to the play loop, he takes his next step and the whole sheet breaks off.
01:09:32:09 - 01:09:33:22
Speaker 2
God, no, I've never seen that.
01:09:33:22 - 01:09:51:20
Speaker 1
And he would have he would have fallen to his death. And it just reminds me of the just the how fragile the and precarious situation was. Like, you know, like the ice climber was one swing tool away from his death. And this guy, like, he could have tugged two more times on that rope to get the pressure off his leg and he could have fallen to his death.
01:09:51:20 - 01:10:11:14
Speaker 1
It's like that's how close this whole situation was. And you don't really realize that you know, And I think the ice climbing, you know, the sheet breaking right after is such a great example of how precarious it was. And then that parachute coming off, you know, 2 seconds after you you get him clipped to your harnesses is just like So like you said, it's chilling.
01:10:12:05 - 01:10:34:16
Speaker 3
I think even a gust of wind. Right. It wouldn't even require him pulling of literally just air, you know, pushing the chute or anything. It's like it was so unbelievably precarious. It just at any moment it could have gone. Yeah. So, yeah, totally. Yeah. It's really, really unbelievable. Kind of like, you know, the nature. I don't know. It's, you know, it sounds weird to say, but it's like nature's blessing.
01:10:34:16 - 01:10:47:19
Speaker 3
You know, we were talking about that with, like, ice of, like tells you when to go or you can take on the challenge or not. And, you know, and in that moment, like, you know, you know, just like a gust of wind didn't come along now it's I don't know it seems kind of crazy pretty wild.
01:10:47:19 - 01:10:52:14
Speaker 2
Crazy part is that helicopter came in and created so scary.
01:10:52:14 - 01:11:00:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, that's horrifying. You would have thought they would have thought that through, you know, And, you know, it's like SaaS.
01:11:00:22 - 01:11:01:05
Speaker 1
Here to.
01:11:01:05 - 01:11:06:14
Speaker 5
The rescue. Sorry, your guys just like, blows off right away. It's it's funny.
01:11:06:19 - 01:11:13:11
Speaker 4
I definitely try not to talk about it too much cause I'm like, yeah, that probably shouldn't have happened. I don't honestly.
01:11:15:00 - 01:11:20:02
Speaker 2
Like to feel shamed for the decisions that were made that day, but that was a poor decision.
01:11:20:16 - 01:11:21:05
Speaker 4
I know that.
01:11:21:12 - 01:11:31:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, you know, Yeah, there's pros and cons to all the rescues. I'm sure there were things that could have gone better if that was one of those situation, those one of those things that could have gone better.
01:11:33:07 - 01:11:34:09
Speaker 1
As crazy story.
01:11:34:14 - 01:11:53:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like in in hindsight, like thinking about it because like, okay, so obviously this is a story that I feel like I could have watched in a movie and been like, That's bullshit. You know? It's like, it's kind of like, honestly, like such a unreal kind of like cool story. And I think it really into a lot of implicates into a lot of things.
01:11:53:20 - 01:12:29:17
Speaker 3
You know, it's like, it's like the badass, like hero comes in and like, saves the day and like, climbs up the roof. Like, yeah, I know. But like, honestly, you play into, like a lot of kind of like these, like mythic, like storylines of something, right? And so, and I'm wondering, like in the way it turned out, like, does this feel like, like I'd like some kind of an incident that's like kind of traumatizing for you or something that's like, you still, like, you know, have a lot of, like really hard thoughts that you're contending with or is there like kind of a more like, wow, like positive, like undertone to it?
01:12:29:17 - 01:12:53:11
Speaker 3
Because it did turn out, you know so, so, so perfect in a sense. And then second part, sorry, this is a really good question, But but, you know, I don't I don't really want to diminish this, you know, because we do talk about this a lot in this show of like, you know, like having people understand the risks and not just glorifying things because obviously this situation turned out so well.
01:12:53:16 - 01:13:16:09
Speaker 3
But, you know, had you turned up there and been like right next to this person looking them in the eye and then they had just like fallen off the to their death, like you very well could just have been, like, unbelievably traumatized for so long. You know, it's like you actually you put a lot on the line beyond just like taking a really bad fall on trad gear or risking your life, you know, in certain ways.
01:13:16:09 - 01:13:32:03
Speaker 3
Like like, did did that ever kind of cross your mind? Like while you were doing that, you know, like, because I don't think we should diminish that aspect of the situation. That's like, yeah, things turned out great, but like, that's, that's a lot to put on the line. That's, that's something you could have contended with for the rest of your life.
01:13:33:09 - 01:13:38:17
Speaker 2
That insight is something you share with my mother.
01:13:38:17 - 01:13:45:07
Speaker 4
So I think a ton of out my mom thinks about it. But I would say after the first.
01:13:45:07 - 01:14:05:10
Speaker 2
Part of your question, it's like, yeah, I would be completely naive to say that this was not trauma traumatic in some shape or form. It was a a day that changed the rest of my life in a lot of ways. I, I don't think that I think that things have been hard for a lot of different reasons since the rescue.
01:14:05:10 - 01:14:32:08
Speaker 2
I would not say it's purely due to the trauma. However, you know, things where the boat was rocked in a lot of ways and I feel like I'm in therapy myself. I do a lot of like really good processing with people that I feel very supported by. I think that all of that's very helpful. I have a really amazing experience hanging out with all the base that were his friends the day after the the rescue.
01:14:32:08 - 01:15:02:07
Speaker 2
And I think that that was so healing to process it. So like immediately after with them and to try and understand what happened and just like that was just so healing in a lot of different ways. But I so I do feel like overall I'm doing really quite well. The thoughts about it are a lot less intrusive than they used to be used to pop up here and there quite frequently, but now it's like less intrusive, which tells me that I'm doing well with it.
01:15:02:07 - 01:15:36:02
Speaker 2
To be honest. They don't get flooded with it all as frequently however, you know, like I said, it'd be nice, naive, I mean, to say it has an impact on me and then like coming back to like what were the risks and was I aware kind of. I think what your question was is that like I was aware that he could fall on me, but I felt like the plan was that Justin would yell Rock and I plan to talking to the rock as close as I could, and I was planning on not looking as long as it took, like I was planning on to like, clipping into gear, like, like I was not like
01:15:36:02 - 01:16:02:12
Speaker 2
I know, especially as, like a mental health professional, that that would be something that would be something that I did not want to expose myself to in that it could impact my life in a really horrific way for the rest of my life. So I really wanted very much so to like, be like, well, I don't know if I thought too much about like actually happening, but I knew that that was the plan, you know?
01:16:02:12 - 01:16:25:13
Speaker 2
And I felt like, like pretty like, okay, that's the plan we're not thinking about anymore, you know? Like, I know, like, feel like I was fighting that thought or anything. It's was just like, cool. Yeah. Got to go. You know? And then, yeah, just like the how delicate everything was. I didn't think about it at all. I just was like, get it done, you know, like, didn't even know if I could get up there.
01:16:25:13 - 01:16:37:01
Speaker 2
I was just like, I need to try my best. I will try my best to do this. I think I answered everything, but if I didn't, please ask, clarifying.
01:16:37:01 - 01:17:01:06
Speaker 3
No, no, for sure. I think that in the article you have a quote where you said like you were amazed by the human capacity to just do. And I think that's kind of what you just explained, right It's like it's just like this seems like just that that call to action and the the like humanity of helping someone in need just kind of like superseded thinking about potentially like, you know, certain consequences.
01:17:01:06 - 01:17:09:04
Speaker 3
Right. Which I don't know, I don't want put words in your mouth, but like that's what I kind of understood out of that. And I think that's something really, really powerful and really cool.
01:17:09:04 - 01:17:28:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, like one of the most important things that you can do when it comes to trauma is like, how do you make meaning out of it and like that? Obviously that sounds like really hard to do in a lot of situations, but that's something I like that a lot with. Like how do we make meaning out of this situation and like beyond just like I saved someone's life.
01:17:28:11 - 01:17:49:07
Speaker 2
Yes, that's beautiful. That's wonderful. But like what? Like why was I the right person at the right time in the right place? Like, why? Like, he was like, I feel like he was meant to live. There's a lot of things that align seemed to perfect, You know, that that crack was perfectly below him. I'd just like little thing, you know, And that actually were quite big things, you know.
01:17:49:16 - 01:18:00:17
Speaker 2
And yeah, I just feel like I don't remember why it was one origin.
01:18:00:17 - 01:18:12:18
Speaker 3
You worries you were talking about like how it's like kind of like, you know, like he was almost like he was meant to live and finding meaning, meaning out of.
01:18:12:18 - 01:18:38:20
Speaker 2
That's where I was from. So, like, I really feel like the meaning that I've come up with to try and understand is that like people to, like, advocate that like she can hit the fan at any point in time. Like we feel like we're in control with our sports because we try really hard to do everything we can to learn the skills or like like, I don't know, like for example, for the base jumper, you could pack your parachute perfectly.
01:18:39:02 - 01:18:58:10
Speaker 2
You can have the perfect conditions, you could have the perfect exit, meaning like the jump that you do at the top and you could still crash like, like things will come into play that are outside of your control. Like as a rock climber, at any point in time, a rock can come and hit you or your player. Like we have to be prepared.
01:18:58:10 - 01:19:28:02
Speaker 2
And I feel like my journey and being and learning rescue is like just beginning and I feel like I just want to like, spread the word that like it's important to be prepared for the worst. Like we're in called this culture, or at least in being in the West. So like, there's like this normalization of the sports that we do and that, like, it becomes no different than other recreational sports in that like, I really feel like the meaning I can make out of this is to advocate for people to like, be prepared and like expect the worst, hope for the best.
01:19:28:02 - 01:19:48:20
Speaker 2
And that also like if shit hits the fan, it doesn't matter. Like if you're not the most sandy climber, like, I feel like I know where I am or who I am. It's not super Sandy. If you have skills like show up and ask if you can help. Like if you see that something is going wrong, they don't be afraid to go see if you can help.
01:19:48:20 - 01:20:12:16
Speaker 2
The worst thing that can happen is they say no. And like I feel like a lot, at least I would be afraid of like being in the way if, like, if your help is not needed, that's cool. Just like asking, like, go away if it's not needed. But it doesn't hurt to see if you could be helped help out because I think like the bystander effect, I think it's called, it's like where everybody's like kind of hanging out and everybody assumes somebody else is like responding.
01:20:12:16 - 01:20:38:02
Speaker 2
I think that's way too common. And due to this like story, people have reached out to me to tell them, tell me their story about like that same thing happening where no one responded. And like, if one person hears my story and remembers during like a rescue, like a situation where someone needs and they end up doing something, then like, I feel grateful that I was able to tell my story and like hopefully help at least one person.
01:20:38:02 - 01:20:43:08
Speaker 2
You know? That's the meaning I've made out of it.
01:20:43:08 - 01:20:47:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. Now that that's awesome. That's a really, really good meeting, you know.
01:20:47:07 - 01:20:54:00
Speaker 2
And I think that helps with, like the hard parts, you know, like coping with, like the hard parts of the.
01:20:54:00 - 01:20:59:02
Speaker 1
And I think as you know, as climbers, it's easy to get focused on performance.
01:21:00:06 - 01:21:01:18
Speaker 5
And, well, performing.
01:21:02:02 - 01:21:24:23
Speaker 1
Well performances is fun for the ego. You know in this situation if you know let's say you you you know had just focused on you know, climbing really hard and most of your trad experience was, you know, based on protecting small cracks or something like that. But you didn't have like this wide range of knowledge on how to use gear.
01:21:24:23 - 01:21:53:22
Speaker 1
You didn't know how to aid climb. You weren't really that comfortable with like, you know, putting together multiple anchors and stuff. Like you focus too much on the performance side. You would have been, you know, not equipped and not experienced enough for this situation. So I think, you know, the lesson for people is just climbing. Probably the most important thing you can do as a climber is to understand your gear and to have a full, well-rounded foundation of how to use it in multiple situations with multiple different rocks.
01:21:54:06 - 01:22:22:03
Speaker 1
Because like you said, you know, you could find yourself in the situation anywhere. You could be at a crack and someone could get themselves into this situation. As you know, maybe there's these two climbers that get themselves on a multi pitch and they don't know self-rescue. And like now you're the one that has to rescue them or you're in that situation and you don't know how to self rescue like, there's just a lot of preparation like you said that that can be taken and I think gets overlooked really easy especially with this transfer from gym two to trad to gym to outside.
01:22:22:12 - 01:22:30:00
Speaker 1
You miss a lot of that foundational knowledge and it saved, you know, your life and it also saved this guy's life as well.
01:22:30:00 - 01:22:49:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think like it's I think like it's important to also realize that you don't need to be prepared for the specific situation like you have to be prepared for everything. Like being diverse in your skill sets will give you a toolbox to pull from as long as you're ready to think out of the box thinker and problem solve.
01:22:49:13 - 01:23:12:08
Speaker 2
Like I think that as especially on like adventure climbs big climbs in general. I don't know that I, I for my experience like being able to pull from a toolbox in order to problem solve in general is a really great skill to have. That's helped me out in a lot of different ways. And I think that that's been essential to this situation, I think could be really applicable to lots of different situations.
01:23:12:08 - 01:23:33:17
Speaker 2
And throughout my climbing, my short climbing career, I feel like I've pulled through my toolbox in lots of different that I've been grateful to just, you know, be well read or to ask lots of questions to the right people or, you know, use resources. It's 22,023. There's so many resources out there.
01:23:34:19 - 01:23:41:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like, you know, go watch the movie Cliffhanger with Sylvester Stallone. That'll teach you a lot about climbing.
01:23:43:03 - 01:23:44:00
Speaker 5
If you can see.
01:23:44:19 - 01:23:47:01
Speaker 4
Parts of it. I don't think I've seen the whole thing.
01:23:47:01 - 01:24:03:06
Speaker 3
That's a that's a total gem. You've really got to remember that there's there's some real good moments. They might climb in like leather boots and like, have like a bolt gun that they, like, shoot into the wall. And then they like, he always has like track gear but doesn't place any gear and just solos the whole.
01:24:03:07 - 01:24:06:18
Speaker 5
World I to total it's a total gem Yeah.
01:24:07:20 - 01:24:10:03
Speaker 3
Create climbing resource learn climbing rescue.
01:24:10:03 - 01:24:10:23
Speaker 5
So yeah.
01:24:10:23 - 01:24:12:22
Speaker 1
That's gym to crag right there in a.
01:24:12:22 - 01:24:16:18
Speaker 5
Nutshell um yeah.
01:24:17:01 - 01:24:31:17
Speaker 3
No there's I think one really important thing that we should probably point out is that your mountain did not save the guy. So, you know, I think just to all the mountain bikers out there listening.
01:24:32:13 - 01:24:36:00
Speaker 5
Climbing. Reed I.
01:24:36:00 - 01:24:37:02
Speaker 4
Definitely agree.
01:24:37:03 - 01:24:49:08
Speaker 3
Yeah I would mountain bike I just, I have too many sports and I can't afford a bike. So that's really just probably my sour attitude to that, you know.
01:24:49:15 - 01:25:11:14
Speaker 1
So one of the things that I heard, you know, thought of when I heard the story was like, I wonder if this is an FAA and, you know, with the status of how cheesy and loose and precarious that route was, my bets are on black. I'm betting that it wasn't FAA. Is it? Is it an FAA? Yeah.
01:25:11:18 - 01:25:16:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So it's kind of crazy. My son's my first FAA.
01:25:16:21 - 01:25:22:10
Speaker 5
What, setting up an FAA? Yeah, exactly.
01:25:22:10 - 01:25:24:00
Speaker 4
This is my first ever.
01:25:24:01 - 01:25:51:07
Speaker 2
Yes. FFA. Yeah, it's pretty exciting because I really feel like this crap was so perfectly below him. It needs to be honored. It needs to be honored appropriately. So I'm actually going back this weekend in order to bolt it and clean it and do things that need to be done in order to honor it.
01:25:51:22 - 01:25:57:14
Speaker 1
Does it does it need to be bolted other than bolted anchors or do you think that there needs to be some.
01:25:57:15 - 01:26:01:11
Speaker 2
More saying that? Yes, just anchors. Okay. Yeah, I guess.
01:26:01:16 - 01:26:03:05
Speaker 4
That would be something I.
01:26:04:20 - 01:26:16:15
Speaker 5
Climate pants. That's a good thank you for clarifying this. So a lot of visual definitely go viral. Yeah like.
01:26:17:00 - 01:26:19:17
Speaker 1
Point to crack on the roof we need a bowl here.
01:26:19:17 - 01:26:21:07
Speaker 5
Or two So.
01:26:22:14 - 01:26:23:19
Speaker 4
That is so funny.
01:26:23:19 - 01:26:26:23
Speaker 1
I mean, if you wanted controversy, that would be the way to go, you know?
01:26:27:01 - 01:26:29:00
Speaker 5
Yeah. If you are.
01:26:29:00 - 01:26:44:00
Speaker 1
Already mainstream isn't enough, Like, that's the way to go. Well, what about the crag? Do you think that it's like a developable area like that? People didn't notice or is just a one off crack that people are going to come to and pay homage to the to the story? What's your vision?
01:26:44:00 - 01:27:06:14
Speaker 2
QUESTION Yeah, that's a great question. I don't know if I have a full vision. I bet you returning in like, really, I think I'm going to really like get to know the space. Then when I go back this weekend, you know, it's like my relationship with this area is very limited to this experience. So I can't tell you too much about the surrounding areas.
01:27:06:14 - 01:27:16:13
Speaker 2
Like I really was there to spend time with Kendra So I didn't even like, do research much about like the area. I was just like, I'm here to spend time with Kendra and ride some bikes and.
01:27:16:20 - 01:27:17:18
Speaker 5
Save some lives.
01:27:18:04 - 01:27:42:23
Speaker 2
Apparently. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that'll be something to be determined. But I am very excited to at least go back and start with this climb. And I'm excited that we came up with a name we, I like kind of made an Instagram post about like a name ideas and asking for names. And my new friend and I then met the guy that I saved.
01:27:42:23 - 01:27:57:08
Speaker 2
I was like, Hey, these are like the top ones. What do you think? Because we had done some like shooting around ideas because we do like periodic face times and we came up with lifelines being the final answer.
01:27:57:08 - 01:28:05:20
Speaker 5
That's pretty sweet. It's yeah, it's sweet. Yeah. Yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:05:22 - 01:28:07:22
Speaker 2
I'm really excited about the name.
01:28:07:22 - 01:28:09:10
Speaker 5
And it's a that's a real.
01:28:09:10 - 01:28:13:07
Speaker 1
Person. You rescued. Is he okay with his name being released?
01:28:13:22 - 01:28:20:22
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. Good question. And fortunately, he is having me protected his identity. Okay.
01:28:21:08 - 01:28:29:05
Speaker 3
Yes. Can we get like, how is how, how are they doing? Do we get an update? Like, are they okay? Like, how are things going for them?
01:28:29:20 - 01:28:47:01
Speaker 2
He's doing shockingly well. He is like walking around with like crutches. Wow. Know a lot of pain issues Other than that, Walking around on crutches is just crazy. I'm excited. I'm going to Australia. I'm going to meet him, which is very exciting.
01:28:47:04 - 01:28:51:11
Speaker 3
Oh, is he? So is he was flown back medically and everything okay?
01:28:51:11 - 01:28:52:06
Speaker 5
Yeah. Wow.
01:28:52:13 - 01:28:55:09
Speaker 1
Do you know the extent of his injuries? Is that public information?
01:28:57:00 - 01:29:01:11
Speaker 2
I, I, I've, I already kind of said it, so.
01:29:01:12 - 01:29:06:19
Speaker 5
Yeah. Okay. I got you. I mean, I hope that already that I.
01:29:06:22 - 01:29:08:00
Speaker 4
Have cleared with things.
01:29:08:00 - 01:29:16:00
Speaker 2
With him as like, as long as, you know if I get information how can I be most respectful to you? You didn't mention anything about that. So yeah, I mean.
01:29:16:00 - 01:29:29:01
Speaker 1
Yeah, I saw the video of him. I saw I saw the video of him crashing in the wall. He hit the wall so flippin hard. I mean, I'm impressed that he is alive.
01:29:29:16 - 01:29:32:18
Speaker 2
It's shocking. Yeah. Is so shocking.
01:29:33:18 - 01:29:37:06
Speaker 1
Are you going to have to scrub the blood off the wall or are you going to let nature do that?
01:29:38:00 - 01:29:40:18
Speaker 2
No one should do that. That's for, you know.
01:29:40:20 - 01:29:41:02
Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:29:41:16 - 01:29:48:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. It'll be a it probably won't be there forever, but it'll be a like you get up there like wow. Like I'm really feel on this climb, you know.
01:29:48:18 - 01:29:50:00
Speaker 5
They got it. Yeah.
01:29:50:14 - 01:29:54:17
Speaker 2
When I first asked him I was like, What do you think we should name the climb? His first.
01:29:54:17 - 01:29:57:13
Speaker 4
Idea here? You decided this isn't the idea.
01:29:57:13 - 01:30:03:12
Speaker 2
We're going to settle it. But his first idea was Bloodrayne.
01:30:03:12 - 01:30:04:18
Speaker 4
It's like, okay.
01:30:05:14 - 01:30:12:06
Speaker 5
You're like a little dark. We'll talk in a week or two. You know?
01:30:12:06 - 01:30:16:17
Speaker 4
Oh, gosh. Yeah. He decided it was a little dark, too. That's why we're always like, Well.
01:30:17:19 - 01:30:19:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, it's a little bit of contrast there.
01:30:19:17 - 01:30:20:13
Speaker 5
Just little. Yeah.
01:30:20:22 - 01:30:40:02
Speaker 1
There's a lot of nice parallel meetings there, you know, like the street crack, you know, all of it. It's good. So. Well, nice. That is one remarkable all inspiring story. Just what a rescue. I mean, it's incredible.
01:30:40:02 - 01:30:56:02
Speaker 2
It doesn't even feel like buy our story, I should say. I say my story, but it's history and my story. You know, it doesn't feel like. And just in Story two writes, All of us. Yeah, but it doesn't feel like it's any part mine. It's crazy. It feels like it doesn't feel real. Yeah.
01:30:56:17 - 01:31:00:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. A little bit of a dream state. Still.
01:31:00:08 - 01:31:03:12
Speaker 5
Oh, wow.
01:31:03:12 - 01:31:08:02
Speaker 1
All Macs. I mean, I don't have anything else that is. Yeah, it's a map here.
01:31:08:07 - 01:31:09:23
Speaker 3
I think that's pretty good, honestly.
01:31:10:22 - 01:31:13:15
Speaker 5
Like. Yeah, Yeah. No, just.
01:31:14:04 - 01:31:32:07
Speaker 3
In general, just. It's a it's a really, really crazy story. I think what I said earlier where was like, if you like, if I read that in a movie script, I would have like, that's bullshit, you know? So yeah, it's, it's a really, it's a really crazy story. And, you know, I'm happy it turned out the way it did.
01:31:32:07 - 01:32:04:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like I said, like, worst situation that worked out in the best way. I remember you mentioning, like, feels like a movie or something. It's this dude is going to come in like, film. Some of you working on the route, which is kind of fun and don't know what that's going to look like. Kim and I are going to collaborate, but it's kind of a another kind of cool way to honor it and honor the the experience and honor like this, like beautiful crack that I think to be seen the way that I see it, you know?
01:32:05:06 - 01:32:22:05
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think it's really cool, too, because that the conversation started off with you telling us about how climbing saved you and then it's ending with you saving someone in climbing? Yeah, it's very cool. Yeah, it's really awesome. So, yeah, I'm so deeply.
01:32:22:12 - 01:32:22:21
Speaker 5
Yeah.
01:32:23:12 - 01:32:24:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. That's beautiful.
01:32:25:04 - 01:32:41:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, honestly, River, thank you so much for taking the time coming on the show, you know, sharing your story. I think it was really, really powerful and, you know, all around, I just think you're a totally rad person. You give off a really great energy and stuff. So I really mean it. It's been it's been a pleasure talking with you this evening.
01:32:41:14 - 01:32:42:09
Speaker 3
So thanks so much.
01:32:42:21 - 01:33:03:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I really appreciate you saying that. Yeah, I've enjoyed chatting with you guys so. I think something unique about this is I really love what you're doing as far as like, like the majority of the people are not pros, you know, and like, that speaks so deeply to like the meaning. I'm trying to I've tried to make out of this story of like, you know, like regular Joes can do stuff like this.
01:33:03:15 - 01:33:19:11
Speaker 2
But also it's kind of crazy to like, talk about like the back side, like, like how I like talking about what got me into climbing or how I got to like the outdoors. Like, wow, this is kind of crazy. And I'm like, I've kind of come a long way. That was it. It was a really interesting way to reflect on like.
01:33:20:10 - 01:33:20:14
Speaker 5
The.
01:33:21:02 - 01:33:24:22
Speaker 2
The everything as a whole, you know? I appreciate that's.
01:33:24:22 - 01:33:36:07
Speaker 1
Awesome to hear. Yeah. Have you had a chance to, to dive, like, really deep into the story with any sort of outlet yet or is this kind of like the first deeper dive that you've done?
01:33:36:07 - 01:34:08:23
Speaker 2
I've done a couple interviews with the Out Alive and the Sharp end. So different perspectives of deep diving. So a different angle is, you know, and then obviously Climbing magazine was like a deep dive in one way or another, chatting about it in that way. I think like your your approach and your style of it is a whole different way of deep diving, though.
01:34:10:00 - 01:34:14:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's cool. Starts in a different way for me. Yeah. Okay.
01:34:14:19 - 01:34:16:05
Speaker 1
Sweet. Yeah, we tried. Yeah.
01:34:16:05 - 01:34:17:07
Speaker 3
Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.
01:34:17:15 - 01:34:21:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Got to offer something different, everyone.
01:34:21:20 - 01:34:39:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like what you guys are doing and really grateful to be part of the.