29 | How Not 2 Have Gear Fear w/ Ryan Jenks

As I am sure all of you are aware. Max and I simultaneously injured ourselves in climbing accidents. After my injury, I started to look at climbing in a completely different way. And one of the main things that struck me was that we never really know whether a piece of trad protection is truly going to hold a fall…. until you fall on it. That didn’t seem very safe to me, how are we supposed to learn the limits of our gear and understand what happens to them under load without risking our lives? Today we get to sit down with the man who has dedicated his life to exploring and fully understanding the limits, capabilities, and applications of climbing gear. Ryan Jenks started his Youtube channel "How Not 2 Highline" almost six years ago. Back then he simply wanted to create 10 videos that covered the ins and outs of how to set up a highline safely.  Fast forward to today, with over 400 videos posted and a community of over 125K, Ryan Jenks is blazing the trail when it comes to testing the limits and fully understanding the capabilities of climbing gear. In our conversation, we dive into the beginnings of his story and the creation of How Not 2. We ask him hot-topic questions about Totems, ropes, and V-threads. And finally, we discuss the future of his channel and the details of his new machine The Slack Snap 5.0

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Transcript

00:00:00:14 - 00:00:23:22
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast, where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:28:07 - 00:00:51:17
Speaker 1
All right, guys, welcome back to the show. Thanks for being here. As I'm sure you're all aware, Max and I simultaneously injured ourselves in climbing accidents about a year and a half ago. After my injury, I started to look at climbing in a completely different way. And one of the main things that struck me was that we never really know whether a piece of track protection is truly going to hold to fall until you fall on it.

00:00:52:11 - 00:01:20:12
Speaker 1
It just didn't seem very safe to me. How are we supposed to learn the limits of our gear and understand what happens to them under load without risking our lives? Today we get to sit down with the man who has dedicated his life to exploring and fully understanding the limits, capabilities and applications of climbing gear.

00:01:25:07 - 00:01:26:22
Speaker 1
All right, let's have it.

00:01:27:13 - 00:01:33:12
Speaker 2
I just feel like I need to clap just because, like, I always do that. Yeah. Yeah, we used to.

00:01:33:13 - 00:01:38:03
Speaker 1
Do that, actually. Like. Yeah, but the leg, the.

00:01:38:03 - 00:01:42:04
Speaker 3
Leg makes it difficult sometimes. So, yeah, it's a little iffy, you know?

00:01:42:09 - 00:01:47:07
Speaker 1
And then and then we found that it was completely unnecessary because in the, in the.

00:01:49:15 - 00:01:56:14
Speaker 2
Second use my clap, clap because I line myself up manually because I don't know how to use anything.

00:01:58:04 - 00:02:03:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, Premiere's got this feature. Now you can just literally sing things automatically. It's pretty.

00:02:04:03 - 00:02:11:17
Speaker 2
Obvious. Rules to Mars. It'd be nice if it could match up audio. You applied the music I use, you would think honestly, what.

00:02:11:17 - 00:02:25:19
Speaker 1
I found with with with editing, video and audio is if you can think of something that's more efficient or think of how to do something it's already been thought of and someone's already built it into the program. You just got to find out how to do it.

00:02:26:01 - 00:02:32:18
Speaker 3
I'm just one step removed from that. I just get Kyle to think about what people have already talked about, and then he relays it to me.

00:02:33:18 - 00:02:46:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think the Internet's like that too. It's like there's so much abundant amount of information out there. It's like you just have to know the question to ask and like, because you're always going to get the answer to the question you ask. You just need to know what questions to ask these days.

00:02:47:13 - 00:03:03:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, absolutely. I think from an engineering perspective, it is interesting that there's always that and yet there's somehow someone's someone's always designing something new and it feels like everything's already been designed. Yeah, if that makes sense. You know, it's, it's kind of wild.

00:03:04:10 - 00:03:18:17
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then, I mean, there's a whole, the whole concept of truth to like, I saw an Instagram recently about this guy who is like, There's no truth anymore. He's like, If I want to look at it and type in and say, Does coffee make me blind? He's like, I can find your next.

00:03:19:00 - 00:03:19:12
Speaker 2
I'm like.

00:03:19:18 - 00:03:23:09
Speaker 1
Can I find an article that makes composite this coffee that makes my eyesight better? He's like.

00:03:23:12 - 00:03:24:10
Speaker 2
Yup, there it.

00:03:24:10 - 00:03:26:01
Speaker 1
Is. Coffee can make my eyes.

00:03:26:16 - 00:03:34:11
Speaker 2
Like there's no fucking truth anymore. You know what you can't find online? Any real answer to how your thoughts are.

00:03:36:03 - 00:03:37:07
Speaker 3
And that that is true.

00:03:37:07 - 00:03:39:23
Speaker 2
That drives me nuts enough.

00:03:40:18 - 00:03:43:13
Speaker 1
To put it on the internet, drives your entire show and drives.

00:03:43:13 - 00:03:47:14
Speaker 2
My entire show. So now you can. Yeah, yeah.

00:03:47:21 - 00:03:57:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm pretty happy personally that it did drive you nuts because I think you've been obviously a pretty awesome resource and, you know, really stoked to be here and having this conversation. So.

00:03:58:03 - 00:04:13:06
Speaker 1
You know. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, it's, it's pretty sweet. You know, we're we're here, we're with Ryan, Jake's and I think unfortunately these days we've got to put the tag as like a.k.a. how not to or how not to highline Have you noticed that in your day to day have people come up to you like.

00:04:13:06 - 00:04:32:09
Speaker 2
Hey, your how I want to. Yeah. I debated on whether or not to see my name in the beginning of every video because you have new audience all the time. But when I realize I don't for a while you're like that you're the how not to guy my man. I own this. I am going to rebrand myself like bring it.

00:04:32:22 - 00:04:38:18
Speaker 2
I like the brand to be known more than my name is. The brand's going to grow into this thing, I hope. Right?

00:04:38:18 - 00:04:41:02
Speaker 1
So it's a good thing.

00:04:41:14 - 00:05:05:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's super good enough. You're like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I what's funny is I did How not too High Line is the original name still the Instagram is somebody has how not to add and I've leaned into more of the how not to do it to offer myself to more of the other sports because I do enjoy the climbing, the caving, the canyoning.

00:05:05:22 - 00:05:06:17
Speaker 2
And those are the ones I.

00:05:06:17 - 00:05:07:09
Speaker 1
Focused on for.

00:05:07:12 - 00:05:34:19
Speaker 2
It right now. But how not too High line. I thought there was no questions in climbing. I thought I just didn't know the answers that people have already discovered. And there's been almost everything tested. I'll just roughly somebody tested everything roughly somewhere. They just never put on the internet. They could be a gear company and it's just not in their best interest to be somebody who put in all the work to break it.

00:05:35:02 - 00:06:03:05
Speaker 2
And it's just it's a lot of freaking work to distribute that information. Or they did make three very helpful articles and then stopped. And it's hard to find that distribution is an art. And so consistently uploading something how allows everyone to know like how not to exist. And then you can find like if the information's in that ecosystem, then you can find it at the answer to your question.

00:06:03:05 - 00:06:26:05
Speaker 1
That you have. But I think that we're in a day and age now where reading articles is almost a dying art, and if it's not a video, then most likely the general population is not going to digest the information. So it seems like you've found a perfect medium to give the information that's lacking in today's society, especially with these extreme sports that are still relatively new.

00:06:26:05 - 00:06:47:12
Speaker 2
I, i outright so people like you just give me the answer. Give me how many Canadians it is. And it's like, okay, I realize written form still has a place. I'm a YouTube consumer like a lot I did. You know, YouTube red means you can turn your phone, shut the screen off when you're talking. Like I listen to YouTube every second.

00:06:47:12 - 00:07:05:20
Speaker 2
I'm not using my brain in the day. I go sweep something, I'm in YouTube's in my ear, which is funny because I spend a lot of time editing the visual aspect of it. I never watch YouTube, but if I just want to know how strong something is, I don't want to listen to somebody saying Smash like, but just give me the damn number.

00:07:05:20 - 00:07:30:02
Speaker 2
Well, I want to offer that to people. I don't want them to. But here's the caveat. They don't always get the context of how it broke. The number is sometimes so irrelevant if this cam breaks it. Eight but it broke it. The wire because it went over the edge. I feel like that's more important to know than the number you're not.

00:07:30:03 - 00:07:30:23
Speaker 2
I don't remember the number.

00:07:31:08 - 00:07:31:16
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:07:32:03 - 00:07:53:13
Speaker 3
Also contextualizing the number of like if it's an arbitrary number that doesn't even represent a real world fall, then you're debating marginal error rate. So there's there's so many things contextually and so many caveats. And I think like a wealth and a wide body of information is such a necessity to understanding the complexity of the situation. And I do think it's really cool.

00:07:53:13 - 00:08:28:00
Speaker 3
I feel like you're the principal of your show, at least in my estimation, is reverse engineering, Right? It's we're not going to give you the answer. We're going to tell you what not to do. And then through that, you can discern, you know, what what you should do. And I think that's a really cool way of giving information and consolidating like a body of knowledge because you know, what you guys were saying earlier, where one person has three articles and then they stop and then this and that in the information age we're in now where there's so much information everywhere all the time, you know, it's too much work to try and find, okay, this

00:08:28:00 - 00:08:40:20
Speaker 3
article is here and this and this and this. So there's having this wealth of knowledge in this kind of apex, which is how not to. Yeah, it's obviously just such a such a crazy, awesome resource to have in this day and age. So that's pretty cool.

00:08:41:20 - 00:09:00:14
Speaker 2
That's what drives me to keep doing it, is people like it. I like I break stuff for my own curiosity, but like all great stuff that I don't care about knowing. There's a lot of people that nerd out about certain things and a lot of not, I don't care. You just I use the same five notes all the time.

00:09:01:04 - 00:09:21:16
Speaker 2
But I know some people read really care and I'm like, okay, I feel like this is helpful to all the sports. Like breaking balls is helpful to all the sports. The problem is I have one party trick. It's pulling it slowly to destruction and, you know, like I can do it in a shock load manner and I'll get into the nuances of that and misconceptions.

00:09:21:16 - 00:09:50:21
Speaker 2
There. And it's like if I break 12 kilometers in one break stronger. But the gate was wonky the whole time. People go by the strongest care me. I'm like, that is not the purchase decision you should be making. I like having carabiners with a very narrow note so you get more than one in a hanger or a gate that's usable and they keep buying the stuff or or wanting to talk up something that broke stronger.

00:09:51:08 - 00:09:58:12
Speaker 2
The butterfly knot rates at 16, killing agents of FIG. 18 kilometers who, besides me is ever getting at those numbers.

00:09:58:21 - 00:10:22:03
Speaker 1
I think that your channel breeds that not only does it breed it, it's just like the way that people are digesting the information. It's like such an easy number for people to hyperfocus on. Yeah. And so you're going to notice those kinds of people who are making these purchase decisions simply based on particular needs. But I think there's a lot more people probably that aren't engaging with you that are making more educated purchases.

00:10:22:10 - 00:10:37:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh yeah. There's there's a whole 99% of the audience actually, and just guessing what they're thinking. Yeah. And in a lot of like trolls and stuff, like I realize it's like point one naught 1%, 4.1% and I have to take that into consideration.

00:10:37:11 - 00:10:38:12
Speaker 1
The loudest, though they're.

00:10:38:12 - 00:11:09:02
Speaker 2
The loudest. And I, I constantly remind me it's like that is such a misrepresentation of the audience usually. But there's always a grain of salt at there's always some you like. There's always a grain of truth to everything somebody says. And so I try to listen to the trolls and be like the kind of have a point. They're just rude about it, but they kind of have a point.

00:11:09:02 - 00:11:31:10
Speaker 2
And that's how the channel has gotten better, is because I'm willing to listen to like assholes, even though, like, they have their meat, the meat spit out the bones, and there are some people that are nice about giving me feedback. Yeah, but I don't think people realize that I'm a very limited resources and even more limited time because I joke of a one and a half man show.

00:11:32:06 - 00:11:58:22
Speaker 2
I have a lot of help and then the camera turns off and then that 80% after that, I'm very by myself. And so when I only have so much time and want to consistently produce content, I am going to put out something that's not perfect and that's super good and nothing that I usually say about gear is my mantra for life because I am a perfectionist.

00:11:59:06 - 00:12:14:04
Speaker 2
At the end of the day, it's like this video is going to help people. You're going to walk away with more answers and questions. You can hear it. It might not sound great and it's not going to go recommit super good enough.

00:12:14:04 - 00:12:33:18
Speaker 3
I think a good analogy that I've heard before was in the Falcon Guides Book of Anchors, and it's one of the intro parts where he talks about an anchor that is good enough is is good enough, essentially, which is what you're saying. And then an anchor that could hold the gravitational force of Jupiter, I think was his analogy is not better than an anchor.

00:12:33:18 - 00:12:52:12
Speaker 3
That's good enough. You know, it's like it's at a certain point, it's like when it when you've reached, you've hit all the criteria and it's and it's going to provide the value. And it does what it's supposed to do. You know, there is and there's obviously a fine line you want to drive to be better. And being a perfectionist, there's good things that come with that and there's bad things that come with that.

00:12:52:12 - 00:12:57:00
Speaker 3
But ultimately we don't need to hold the gravitational pull of Jupiter.

00:12:58:02 - 00:13:18:18
Speaker 2
So yeah, unless you need to and we'll show you like how to maybe accomplish that. But it's also I love trying to share how to think about something. And so we're trying to add more meat after the break. Test of this is how you can digest these numbers. And then all of a sudden 30,000 people see a pattern where it's all breaking on the hydraulic side.

00:13:18:18 - 00:13:29:01
Speaker 2
And I'm like, Now you can flip the coin and get heads seven times. I just don't think that side means anything. Yeah, but I think that you're you're.

00:13:29:01 - 00:13:53:00
Speaker 1
Offering the meat like we talked about before, and I think that's the most important part. Like, as long as you're always hitting the meat and offering something genuine, digestible to your audience, you're going to continue to grow and be successful. And I think that's why you've come so far. It's because you're offering the meat and like you sound like you're a little harder yourself in terms of the quality or the video or the audio.

00:13:53:06 - 00:14:15:20
Speaker 1
But I think that that's it's like icing on the cake, you know, like, yeah, as this channel grows and as you become more into this, this persona that you're, you're creating, this channel that you're creating, those things will fall into place. You might have a crew, you might have sponsorships, you know, shout out to anybody who's interested in sponsoring like, get this guy some, some crew.

00:14:15:20 - 00:14:23:13
Speaker 1
It's audio equipment like that, but the meat is there. And I think that's the most crucial part. So, so good on you for keeping that.

00:14:23:13 - 00:14:43:05
Speaker 3
So I think we're always our own worst critics as well, right? Like, you know, for myself as someone who is aspiring to get more into creative space and, you know, get into YouTube and these other zones, you know, I've looked at your videos for quite a while and I thought, wow, they're so genuine, they're so amazing. They're well filmed, they're well and analytically put together.

00:14:43:05 - 00:15:07:04
Speaker 3
The information is so useful, like there's a million bars or boxes that you take that I would say like, this is an amazing creator, produces amazing content. So there's always like striving to be better, but also like, you know, we are our own worst critics and kind of turning around for a snack and being like, Oh, actually I'm producing something that's like pretty fucking rad and awesome, you know, if that that makes sense, right?

00:15:07:04 - 00:15:09:02
Speaker 3
And I don't think enough of us do that sometimes.

00:15:10:04 - 00:15:47:09
Speaker 2
At the end of the day, I know that it's pretty helpful. And the videos are because I consume how to make YouTube videos obsessively that they are today. I'm confident in my edits. I'm confident in what I'll put out If the audio is shit. It's like, Yeah, I was in Iceland, bro. Like, it's like, I'm fine. I'm not like, you're about like, I'm like, you film on El cap or you're like, hanging on a shoestring and like, I was in a cave, literally middle free climb on mud, whipped out my phone, lit the lens and shot what I was doing.

00:15:47:13 - 00:16:07:23
Speaker 2
And I'm like, I don't care how that comes out because, like, the content is good, but when wherever, when you do, you ever break something with me, You walk away with me with more questions than answers, though, you have some answers. I want the audience to feel like they were with us, laughing with us watching all this stuff.

00:16:07:23 - 00:16:30:03
Speaker 2
But like, cut it down to where you're just like, get to the point, but like, we'll spend 4 hours breaking something, put it down to 8 minutes and some of you like that was long. And I'm like, Well, experience everything in 8 minutes and you got to engage with us in our reactions. And it's like why we chased the next rabbit.

00:16:30:18 - 00:16:55:08
Speaker 2
And at the end you have some answers and more questions because that's how science works. And people say, Oh, it's fine, what you doing isn't science. I'm like, No, the intro is the hypothesis. The body is like, whatever the fine science principle, I don't care. I'm telling you, we have data with information, we check it, whatever. At the end of the day, it's helpful.

00:16:56:04 - 00:16:58:05
Speaker 3
I would say that's scientific.

00:16:58:05 - 00:17:04:19
Speaker 2
Boring. It's it's it's us discovering something. It's that it's the high school version of science, and a lot.

00:17:04:19 - 00:17:18:14
Speaker 1
Of it is really hard to translate into something that's real life. Like, you know, like you're right there on the front lines, like showing exactly what people can interact with on a visual level. And so it's much more digestible.

00:17:18:16 - 00:17:35:19
Speaker 3
I think science in general, actually, you you'll get this more controlled cause and effect result depending on if it's like, you know, deductive reasoning. But there there's too many variables in the real world that you can't account for. It's like, you know, I think in one of your videos I was listening to you recently, it's like a fallacy.

00:17:35:19 - 00:17:53:06
Speaker 3
It's like you have this theoretic mathematics that says X, and then you actually go out and you put it in real world and all these variables have been introduced and all of a sudden it's y. And so that's something that's kind of about we could call this like schoolyard science or, you know, like, like fun science, whatever you want to call it.

00:17:53:06 - 00:18:22:21
Speaker 3
Right? When you go and test these things in these applications, it's like, well, you're not getting a black diamond instruction manual that says every single time you pull this cam like this, it's going to perform in this exact manner. But you are getting a super useful view into like, hey, like there's probably this pretty sweet range here that I know and there's this margin of error and now I'm like this much closer to certainty that I'm not going to like, you know, have a ground fall or my piece isn't going to blow.

00:18:23:01 - 00:18:40:21
Speaker 3
Or if it does blow, it's user error or a rock quality and not actually this device is going to break on me. And those are all extremely useful pieces of knowledge that you need to be able to calculate in real time and make good decisions. So, you know, I think it's just crucial.

00:18:41:10 - 00:19:08:09
Speaker 2
You know, the most shocking thing to me is a huge part of my audience are engineers and architects, like I'm a building contractor. But okay. And and, you know, let's see it literally in the instructions. It's like wet ropes are weaker and nylon is weaker. If you Google nylon as a property, nylon is weaker when it's wet and you're just like, I don't I just don't think that's the case.

00:19:08:16 - 00:19:30:23
Speaker 2
And I and I feel a lot of responsibility now, especially as more people watch to not be wrong. Yeah. Because too many people will just take as a YouTube video from a guy they don't know while they were watching it, while they were pooping for 10 minutes and and walk away thinking they know something more than the instruction manual, which is great if it's right.

00:19:31:13 - 00:19:51:22
Speaker 2
But at the end of the day, my Kenyan buddies laughing because like this, like all the ropes are wet. Yeah. And we tested and we test static rope and dynamic rope and drop tower and slow pull and weight in like gets really in-depth 30,000 views. I drop test a monkey fist that you're never going to use in life.

00:19:51:22 - 00:20:15:11
Speaker 2
And I get a half a million views or I leave out some details doing stuff on YouTube filming how to poop on it, a million views. And you're like, I'm really going deep into a topic. I'm like, Plunge because it is a little bit more boring, but I have to prove the thesis or the theory that it's the wrong in there.

00:20:15:11 - 00:20:35:06
Speaker 2
If there is a context out there, right when I'm bailing, rappelling, you can hold it, killing it. You don't have to be worried about it. I don't know who is lead climbing with a wet rope. Maybe if you're ocean, but that's three three. So I don't know who's climbing with a wet rope. Like a saturated wet rope.

00:20:35:16 - 00:20:36:21
Speaker 3
That's not dry treated.

00:20:36:21 - 00:20:53:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. An Oh, dry treated. You know, the dancing waterproof shoes and normal shoes. Waterproof shoes take longer to dry out when they say with the dry treated rope, you're just like it does actually get wet. When we tested it, it held the same amount of weight of water.

00:20:53:14 - 00:20:55:15
Speaker 1
Just took longer. It took it took longer.

00:20:56:18 - 00:21:07:23
Speaker 2
Dry, treated ropes have a place. But when you here dry treated you me very disappointed rappelling off el cap and it's squeegee in the water into your lap Yeah yeah.

00:21:08:16 - 00:21:30:15
Speaker 3
So I think we've we've gone off on an interesting tangent here and I think in the beginning we talked about reverse engineering. So I think why don't we reverse engineer you, Ryan, and why don't we take you take a step back here and go, you know, like, who are you? You know, give a nice introduction of yourself and maybe we can start off of, you know, like, like where did you grow up?

00:21:30:15 - 00:21:35:01
Speaker 3
How did this all start? What inspired you into getting into this and kind of take it back a step.

00:21:35:13 - 00:21:58:14
Speaker 2
Little autobiography here? Yeah, let's do it. I grew up in Super flat central California. I didn't discover Yosemite until I was basically 18, 19. And then when I got those clips like a hiker and you get near the railing and you're like, Oh my God. And that feeling stuck with me, ran to the base of El Capitan, said, How do I climb this?

00:21:59:08 - 00:22:21:09
Speaker 2
And they said, Go to a climbing gym. And so I did. And they had a slight learned that climbing gym in pipe in Sacramento. And I discovered Slack lining and climbing more at the same time because of the climbing jump. And then this really new cool thing came out called YouTube. And Dean Potter was like the coolest thing on there.

00:22:21:09 - 00:22:43:05
Speaker 2
If you're into climbing and he was slack lighting and climbing and real rock was a thing and masses of stone was I was discovering he was already out. But like discovering these masses of stone things. And when people were combining, climbing in base jumping and wingsuit and rope swinging, you're just like, Oh my God, this is the elixir to life.

00:22:43:05 - 00:23:11:03
Speaker 2
You're just like, I'm 20 and want to prove myself to the world. But I never got good at climbing. I got stuck at like 75 sevens because tried climbing in Yosemite is you just like kind of don't fall and especially when you don't trust the gear I came from. This is 2526 is climbing was like falling still wasn't like mainstream okay like there's still a lot of gear here.

00:23:11:23 - 00:23:37:19
Speaker 2
But then I like, leaned more into the big wall and stuff, and eventually I stopped that because I thought I was going to die every time because I'm only on these two personal hangers that say, not for personal life support and you're just really confused about like these See White a tags on gear. And so I actually morphed more into highlighting, which was always like to me cooler than climbing because it was like more of a mind fog, more or less.

00:23:38:18 - 00:23:59:16
Speaker 2
And as soon as I learned how to rig it, which I had to reinvent everything, it was zero on the internet. When real rock tans over to Dean Potter free soloing, you pause a blurry 240 m video and you're trying to study how they build an anchor frame by frame by frame. And I didn't know there was a community where to reach out to them.

00:23:59:16 - 00:24:19:04
Speaker 2
Facebook is barely a thing at this point. I'm probably group no like it was around, but like, Oh my God. Bobby told me about like, Oh, I found a mountain project. I'm like, What is that? Bobby in 20 1819 told me about Mountain Project, and because I knew where to climb at this point, I knew the people I was climbing with.

00:24:19:04 - 00:24:39:11
Speaker 2
I didn't need partners, I didn't need data. And so I climbed 18 walls. At this point, I've high line of rate, hundreds of Highlands established dozens of them, and I just gravitated towards Highland because I felt in theory, safer because everything's redundant. You don't get on unless you know it's safe and you only feel fear because you're scared.

00:24:39:22 - 00:25:03:09
Speaker 2
Now there's no logical reason to feel fear, and it was the safest form for how afraid you could be. And I liked overcoming that. So cycling companies wouldn't touch Highline tutorials with a ten foot pole. The liability right? So I was like, Well, I want to practice making a YouTube channel because I want to make YouTube channel something else.

00:25:04:04 - 00:25:08:16
Speaker 2
And I was consuming 3 hours of YouTube a day in 2016.

00:25:09:04 - 00:25:09:12
Speaker 1
I just.

00:25:10:18 - 00:25:11:22
Speaker 2
We'll get to that in a minute.

00:25:11:23 - 00:25:13:03
Speaker 3
Guys, ahead of his time.

00:25:14:22 - 00:25:31:14
Speaker 2
And then I was going to so I was like, you know what? I just name it how not to not take it too serious that way. It's like the the disclaimer is built into the title that's literally they have a thought process behind the channel. So how not to highlight because that's only going to do High line what is maybe ten videos.

00:25:31:14 - 00:25:52:22
Speaker 2
I can probably explain anchors getting the line pulled across, stand up straight. How hard can it be? Was I started to scratch that into the details because I'm like, Oh, actually, I think people need to know this detail. I found out nobody really knew the details, and then I would try to explore them on my own. And and that's it is a rabbit hole of where I am.

00:25:53:01 - 00:26:15:16
Speaker 2
500 videos later, I'm finding out how little people actually know that are willing to talk about the gear, because even that engineers have tested it, they always test more than a is requiring. They know a lot about it, but at the end of the day, they don't have always a horizontal crack to go put it on and drop a £300 thing.

00:26:15:16 - 00:26:40:13
Speaker 2
You don't always have the time, energy, resources or curiosity after two years of development to do these weird things with gear but is a highlight space net rigger, rope jumper. You're doing really weird things. And so we find that the absolute limit of gear because of this little niche I found myself in, because I found I liked rigging more than walking.

00:26:41:10 - 00:27:07:00
Speaker 2
I like big warming because it requires me to touch my gear more than to actually put my fingers in the crack and climb. I like gear and I like knowing how it works. And I big wall today now, because I'm not afraid of how it works. I'm not afraid when I'm repelling that I'm going to die. I understand the where the risks are in repelling because that actually is where more people die than lead climbing.

00:27:07:19 - 00:27:38:05
Speaker 2
Even though repelling is more vanilla than you feel scared me You should feel scared repelling, but it's not because you're ropes. Going to break your hips is strong. In a U-shape like that is the care of the bolt is not going to come out. If you have anything that looks normal is bomber we were afraid is highlighters is we're putting on so much force is the border had like a winch that put £5,000 of force on it and and he would break bolt.

00:27:38:06 - 00:28:04:14
Speaker 2
So we are putting four and five bolts into every high line area per side and we discover that you don't need to do that. And now people are just two or three huge redundant threes overkill for stupid even in sandstone and you don't need for just putting the right part. It's like so leave less trace with that slogan to like reduce how much impact we are having.

00:28:04:14 - 00:28:24:18
Speaker 2
Rig all natural if you can to where you're just using wrapping a boulder or a tree, you're putting. Tamsin Oh don't don't right. Please don't ever teach anybody to rig high lines on campus. We know you like do stuff like that. We don't want other people to do it. Well, they're fine if you do it right. Why are we withholding information?

00:28:25:02 - 00:28:26:03
Speaker 1
That's not user error.

00:28:26:18 - 00:28:42:17
Speaker 2
There's user error because the resources out there are just lightly touching the surface is everyone's afraid of liability. Have you ever heard of a YouTuber being sued for wrong information we could talk about?

00:28:42:17 - 00:28:44:14
Speaker 3
No, I've heard of this situation.

00:28:45:01 - 00:29:13:10
Speaker 2
All the studios all talk about the crypto stuff. It's like you killed my singing and do it more on YouTube than you can almost anywhere else. And it's good or not and certified is good or not. Engineer you know got some association with an engineering firm. Nobody wants to be associated with the guy who's seen more or less whatever he wants on the internet.

00:29:13:10 - 00:29:37:19
Speaker 2
And it really concerns usually older men 60 and up, sometimes Australian. It really concerns me. Then I have no overlord over me. Yeah. Other than just get the shit trolled out of you if you, you know, say too much stupid stuff, which I think is good if I say to you what stupid stuff? Oh science, it's peer reviewed.

00:29:37:22 - 00:29:50:12
Speaker 2
Read the comments, you'll find out if it's right or you'll, you'll like learn how to think about what I'm doing. If you read 30 comments, you also learn that you'll probably hate humanity after reading about 30 comments.

00:29:51:16 - 00:30:16:15
Speaker 3
Well, I think I think science actually has a massive replication error. I was just saying I think science actually has a massive error when it comes to being like replicable. Like a lot of studies, like people don't actually go out and reproduce the study to create validity in it. So it's like maybe it's reviewed by people, but it's not actually replicated, whereas there's a lot of things you're doing where you show a lot of consistency and a lot of replication, like in breaking forces or different cams and stuff.

00:30:16:15 - 00:30:20:06
Speaker 3
So that's actually something really interesting that you could you could kind of boast, I think.

00:30:20:19 - 00:30:44:12
Speaker 2
What I show people exactly the machine I'm using, how it's pulling, what I'm connecting to it, you see the whole process. So you can either replicate or change one variable. And I try to show people how I build my brain test machines, how to pull something with your car safely, how to use the line, scale three in a way that doesn't break it because it only goes up to 30 kilometers.

00:30:44:12 - 00:31:06:06
Speaker 2
And that's like the range of lights you need. You realize a lot of stuff breaks higher than that. And if you get all ambitious about, I'm going to do this thing I see on YouTube, like I want you to I want you to put in a chart, share it with me, and I'll included on the blog here. It's relevant, but you can replicate what I'm doing and see if it's working for you.

00:31:06:07 - 00:31:27:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, I actually like trying to replicate other people's experiments where they thoroughly show what they did. Do it as much as I can like them and see if I get similar results. And sometimes I get very different results, which is just a whole nother rabbit to chase. But it's just people, I'll get on this and then I'll get off of it.

00:31:27:18 - 00:31:55:22
Speaker 2
Science isn't clean. There is nothing clean that ends number on this ice. Screw is a single number that does not tell you about how this thing works, how it interacts with the ice that this breaks before this. Unless it's in bad ice, it's they try to isolate everything down to a single number, which I get it. Their standards, they need to do that.

00:31:55:22 - 00:32:01:00
Speaker 2
They need to do that. But you do not understand your gear because they stamped a number on that.

00:32:01:00 - 00:32:19:05
Speaker 1
CARABINER Do you feel like it's obviously you're filling the void here, but do you feel like there is more manufacture, like it's more their job to be educating people on how to use it? Or do you think that it's appropriate to leave it to the public to either figure it out or to have people like you come up with this information?

00:32:19:22 - 00:32:43:02
Speaker 2
If I was if I had was associate with the company, I would approach the CEO as this is incredible marketing that people understand your product in a very intricate level because people are emotionally attached to their gear when you fall in. Exactly. They didn't catch you. You'd be dead today. You hang that cam on the walls. Yeah. Like you care about that yellow alien.

00:32:43:05 - 00:32:44:19
Speaker 1
You even hang the ones that break it.

00:32:45:03 - 00:33:07:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You care about your part. Allege it's the most expensive thing you spend money on, and you can let people figure it out. But at the end of the day, it's actually in your best interest to really put me out of a job and make me not feel like I need to test it. And it's not necessary.

00:33:07:04 - 00:33:27:15
Speaker 2
Their job and I can see why they avoid it. And a lot of gear companies are afraid of you call it sponsoring me or giving me gear intentionally to test because I don't even know what the UI standard is. I think there's a ten mm pen in there somewhere. I think 100 millimeters per second. I don't know and I don't care.

00:33:27:16 - 00:33:29:00
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's not what you're testing and.

00:33:29:11 - 00:33:50:01
Speaker 2
I love variables they isolated down to be comparable. So this ice through can be compared to the other ice screw and that's great. They, they need to do that but I don't care gear companies have already tested this stuff. I'm not trying to shit test their testing to make sure that that's what the UI for. That's what this stuff is for.

00:33:50:14 - 00:34:11:01
Speaker 2
They're being like legitimate companies are being quality controlled. But I want to know when this thing's tipped out, when it holds. I think everybody who puts that in where you should have a number for, they want to know if it'll hold.

00:34:11:01 - 00:34:40:09
Speaker 3
And the sounds sounds good to me. Yeah, I think I think I'm sure there's some weird legality and liability issues to this that we're probably not super privy to that's probably affecting that. And, and I also think just from a PR slash like, you know, not understanding how the public's going to take something because, you know, even if, let's say your ice screw example, you know, the hangar brakes at 14 can but the the the screw can hold you know, way more.

00:34:40:21 - 00:35:06:07
Speaker 3
Does that like what does that really mean? Like is that a negative thing that a brakes at 14 can when the average fall is going to be five can like you know depending on how you'd want to view that that's either just really good crucial information or somehow it could be viewed in some legality or negative aspect. But I mean, if you've done something to produce 14 K on on ice screw hanger, I mean, you're probably fucked anyways, you know, I would assume at least, right?

00:35:06:07 - 00:35:14:02
Speaker 3
So like, I don't know what you've done, but it's, it's not even that relevant in your body. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:35:14:02 - 00:35:31:11
Speaker 2
You already have other problems and you're not supposed to evaluate. You got knives hanging off of your feet and your hands and I tried not to be like this. Doesn't mean it's bad if this. If this steel hangar is breaking at 20, this is at 14. Like that doesn't mean this is bad. It's like potentially lighter. There could be potential benefit.

00:35:31:16 - 00:36:08:00
Speaker 2
Just know that. But if you're going to go rig, I don't know, hypothetically, a high line that's 500 meters long and you're using ice screws, which you shouldn't be, you want to know like 1% of the audience needs to know what I'm actually showing. But if you can understand your gear, you can actually push limits and or just not be afraid and when we start doing these Z content things that we're leaning into more now is I want to incorporate, if we do a sport climbing A to Z, which is really boring for me.

00:36:08:10 - 00:36:28:19
Speaker 2
It's so basic. But what's fun is if I integrate, this is a rope, it breaks it. This when it goes up and down, it's your weight. Plus their weight is roughly what's up there. You're still a 10 to 1 safety ratio. Watch this rope break. It breaks like this. Watch the rope break up here. It looks like it's Penge, but it's actually 27 kilometers up here.

00:36:29:06 - 00:37:03:09
Speaker 2
And your carabiners do this. Make sure they're close so they'll do this. And I'll just be rolling the whole time. Bam, bam, bam. Slow, Moz, with my cracked, cheap galaxy S9 that I film. So people like these see that they can trust this gear. But, Mike, be careful if you lean back and don't check that you're on repel and you've already taken personal anchors off because your stance is good enough and you lean back and your carabiner wasn't in your rope, you might die if you if you don't know on the interrupt, you might die if you hold your Gregory down because you're up later, you might kill them.

00:37:03:11 - 00:37:25:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, This is really dangerous. You don't have to worry about this aspect. That's a helpful course for sure. And if it's free and entertaining, then guides can be like, Hey, go watch this data. It's boiled down to an hour and a half. Everything you need to know is in there. So when you come tomorrow, you can actually retain what I'm going to show you.

00:37:25:15 - 00:37:42:09
Speaker 2
And this is a beautiful baseline for people to show up more prepared. You can get more out of these courses that the paying guides for. Yeah ad man you get them when they're young in the sport you got an audience for life.

00:37:42:09 - 00:38:03:01
Speaker 1
So it sounds like that was kind of like where you see a little bit of an evolution moving forward is like an eight Z on certain topics. How did this second Spirit testing specifically start? Like what kind of machine where you using? What was like the evolution of kind of your testing process from from beginning to now?

00:38:03:09 - 00:38:22:23
Speaker 2
So like any channel teaching something, it's got that eight Z by the grace. So you got to do something today. And I never thought to break stuff. And then I end several videos and maybe only it was every other Wednesday at first. But then shortly after I realized I could do every Wednesday and I kind of needed to to catch up with how much I'm exploring.

00:38:23:19 - 00:38:45:16
Speaker 2
And I and I was too cheap to mail all my webinar because there's a lot of webbing to bounce community to. So loops on the end. So I don't have to carry those heavy web blocks. You just click the link to the anchor and then you only need one. Weblogs set of four. I'm like, Whoa, big deals back six years ago or whatever.

00:38:46:13 - 00:39:00:18
Speaker 2
And I was to keep this in the loop and I was going to have somebody at the drop zone so it up for me. But I'm like, Oh my gosh, if this breaks, you know, the back up. Like, I actually need to know, like this is going to work. And so I kind of knew at the time for us.

00:39:00:18 - 00:39:38:21
Speaker 2
So and things are a thing and climbing I mean, that's so on right there and so I bought a crane scale on eBay that somebody sent to me is like, Oh, this should work. It was a £50,000 train scale for $400. I'm like, Well, that's perfect. I'll never go above £50,000. And which is true, but it also reads in £50 increments and weighs £75, and it takes a shackle that weighs £12 and use like in the the rabbit hole begins.

00:39:39:09 - 00:39:57:04
Speaker 2
And so I put it between two trees and I used to come along and then I realized I am in the direct line of where this cable going to be flying when I if I am successful and break it, which I was not. And we'll get into that. So I got a ram puller to pull the inside of cars, right?

00:39:57:04 - 00:40:21:05
Speaker 2
Because that's his arm is hydraulics. So you pump it and it gets smaller. Most hydraulics, they get bigger. And so I had to learn how hydraulics work, which is not that hard. It's a plunger with fluid going in or out one side and in the other moves the plunger. But I didn't know that. And I was like, I'm also standing right next to the sample when it goes flying.

00:40:21:07 - 00:40:40:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. So then I was like, I don't want that. So I put a pulley on there. When I pulled it with my van and I realized I couldn't keep breaking this stuff because it was too stretchy. Rope stretch. You do not realize how much rope stretches before it breaks until you try to break it inside. These trees are, what, ten feet apart?

00:40:41:09 - 00:41:01:12
Speaker 2
Trejo To crane, scale your pulley like you got five feet of clay. But you're dumb and you make your sample three feet long. Well, the thing is going to stretch to nine feet before it breaks. And so I so I didn't want things hitting my van. So I did a 2 to 1 to a 2 to 1 to a 2 to 1 to 2 to 1 to my van.

00:41:02:09 - 00:41:33:11
Speaker 2
And this is all with Tractor Supply pulleys. So everything's really heavy. When I was pulling heavy stuff, shit went flying and these were all on trees that were in like a semicircle. So you could like 2 to 1 and you're leaning over all day to do 30 samples in a day was an astronomical task for four people. So then I eventually had the guy that did my van partition wall who does like unique random projects, build me the slack snap 2.0 machine, which is the aluminum machine.

00:41:33:11 - 00:41:59:07
Speaker 2
Everyone's familiar with, and that's what I would break stuff with. But I'm like, Oh, hydraulics are hard. I know pulleys, I'm a slack layer, Pulleys are cool. So I get a Costco winch. And what is it like 15 of these holds? The whole thing weighs over £100. So to reset it you have to the very loud Costco in and to push it back out.

00:41:59:19 - 00:42:10:13
Speaker 2
Is it when three spools pull the pulleys realize you need to go more. I can't believe Bobby hung out for those that era because he was resetting that. That was awful.

00:42:10:14 - 00:42:11:19
Speaker 1
So Bobby was in this already?

00:42:11:20 - 00:42:38:17
Speaker 2
Bobby shows I've got 2019 and yes, I'm already breaking stuff at this point. He shows up, he's read the Bulletin Bible and so he's I'll come break stuff. He's an hour and a half for me. People think he lives with me. I'm like, No, no, that's we film in batches. But anyways, so you have slack snap 2.0, but then I can't break stuff in the real world, so I try to go back to pulleys.

00:42:38:17 - 00:43:03:11
Speaker 2
I'm sorry I evolved to hydraulics and I finally learn how those work because I have to do brake bolts. Hey Bobby, we should break a thousand bolts and Rod can't just be ten bolts. It's got to be a thousand bolts. But you don't want to buy all the stuff. We're not the stuff. Get into it all. Invest. I invested $10,000 of my own money into everything I needed.

00:43:03:11 - 00:43:23:08
Speaker 2
I bought all the bolts. No one gave me three bolts, all the glue, all the drill bits. It's crazy how much it took. And then we would go install all of these in a driveway that they were going to tear up. And the lady like, waited to have it be the last thing and all the landscaping so I could keep pulling the stuff.

00:43:23:14 - 00:43:48:22
Speaker 2
We only hit her house like three times with flying shrapnel. So now I know hydraulics. So then we put hydraulics in slacks, not machine. And it's like five times easier, which the machine is five times easier than the pulley system in the trees. So then I'm now back into the pulley era where Iceland, where we tested ice screws, You can't even use a wedge.

00:43:48:22 - 00:44:22:03
Speaker 2
You're like, hiking 45 minutes, and we're like, Okay, I'm going to do an 81 to 1. So you have the four double essence pulleys, two on either side. That's a 9 to 1. You typical 3 to 1 and you 3 to 1 that you got to progress capture with the Gregory butt rope stretch. This is where equal is they are all done This is where mechanical advantages of myth came out because you have any rope stretched when you're jerk pulling, you lose all of the on.

00:44:22:17 - 00:44:46:01
Speaker 2
You're going to get through the stretch and the rope because there is over a hundred feet of rope in this thing in order for it to be six feet apart from each other because it's an 81 to 1 or like, however the math turned out, you. So I realize it's not practical and you can't use a winch in progress capture with a Gregory.

00:44:46:02 - 00:45:11:11
Speaker 2
So you have to go with no mic, no mechanical advantage outside of like the 9 to 1. But you can't put 50 Killer Newtons on SNC pulleys at a rate of 245 just because you can't doesn't mean you should. So I'm learning in Iceland what I joke is a 5 to 7 seven people pulling a 5 to 1 is more efficient than anything else you can do.

00:45:12:01 - 00:45:34:15
Speaker 2
And we learn the hard way. Sit like you're in a rowboat, then pull and have your feet spread out so you fall in the other person's lap and not into their shoes or crampons, because you will, when it pulls, breaks, fly, just like the sample will. So that's like snap 3.0 slacks at 4.0 is to go back to the 9 to 1 but with a tap stand.

00:45:35:05 - 00:45:53:23
Speaker 2
So if I can carry the caps in now, I can go break bolts in the wild that were installed 40 years ago. If we go up there, they will snap and be able to drill it out and replace them. That's a whole nother revolution. And now we're getting into slacks now 5.0, which will save for the end of this podcast if we have time.

00:45:54:00 - 00:45:54:05
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:45:54:21 - 00:45:55:04
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:45:56:06 - 00:46:10:15
Speaker 1
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm with our level of understanding that you've developed about these systems over the years is astonishing. I like is way above my pay grade in terms of like how these things work.

00:46:10:18 - 00:46:30:00
Speaker 2
Way above my pay grade. And I'm not an engineer, so my background is a little bit more about just means I'm a painting contractor. I've had up to eight employees is my dad's business had up to 20 and that was never that's not profitable. And so I did well for 20 years painting with my dad. I ran jobs.

00:46:30:00 - 00:46:55:20
Speaker 2
I learned how to solve people's problems and I learned construction. So I kind of have the gist of how things work from a hands on perspective, not an engineering perspective. And yeah, that's a lot of rabbit rabbits, but I don't know. I did not know how to edit videos. I still am very green when it comes to audio.

00:46:55:22 - 00:47:25:20
Speaker 2
I am just now able to identify that the audio is bad. Load cells are a nightmare nightmare because science is not clean and anybody who thinks their load cell works super good does not understand load cells. We spent how long figuring out audio in here in a system you already have dialed because we changed one element. I'm in the room with you and when you change your load cell, you have your cell phone on near it.

00:47:26:08 - 00:47:50:15
Speaker 2
No one could solve that problem for me. My cell phone was putting out so much juice because I was in a shop that it was throwing my numbers off and giving me inconsistent numbers. I love the line. Skill three even has a hard on there, but this same no the line skill three Also if you don't if you hit you, it could change your number.

00:47:51:03 - 00:48:15:18
Speaker 2
If you have to turn it to see the number, you could change the number. It's deforming the aluminum, changing the voltage. That's how you get your number in. If it's too cold, too hot to anything, it's not perfect. People like the bathroom scales. You step on it. It's never what you typically want it to be, but it's like it's it is a clean number.

00:48:16:08 - 00:48:42:19
Speaker 2
And when people people who put out videos of break tests, occasionally your companies or random people, they'll put one number on the screen or they're load cells already scrubbed the data. But when you go to 10,000 hertz or 10,000 times per second, that voltage is all over the place and it's got to like clean that, average it out and stuff.

00:48:42:19 - 00:49:10:11
Speaker 2
And then you have to know how long you needed to go in when that sample is going to break. Because when you're at those speeds, you're limited on the time and data compute. So yeah, they just load cells in audio and video and storytelling in premiere in YouTube, in titles and thumbnails and break test and stretch and steel and aluminum and titanium sparks and you're like, That's good to know.

00:49:10:18 - 00:49:37:03
Speaker 2
And and then people's opinions. I have good days and I have bad days on this channel. And the good ones are really good and the bad ones really. I notice a lot of creators specifically in the YouTube scare. They burn out easier to do yours or take long breaks. If you get make it past two years, six months, you make it to five.

00:49:37:23 - 00:49:56:11
Speaker 2
You can make it past five and a half, six years. You make it to ten, you make it to 11, you make it to 20. By this, like there's these weird mental hurdles of creativity burn out, whatever that if you can just push through and just ignore the pain, then you get to the other side. It becomes worth it.

00:49:56:18 - 00:50:21:22
Speaker 2
You become fresh again, new ideas, new people, new whatever. And it's fun. And I've had some really, really low moments that was like all this almost rocket, right? And pushing through that over and over and over and having people going. I love knowing this stuff. And at the end of the day, I love knowing the stuff too. Has capital six years, two or three.

00:50:21:22 - 00:50:45:09
Speaker 1
Months. Awesome. I think the key is is just continuing to evolve and to grow and to diversify the yourself and the channel itself. Because when we when we find ourselves in this state of monotony or this state of like feeling like you are owned by your channel because you have to create something for it, like that's where the darkness comes.

00:50:45:17 - 00:51:04:02
Speaker 1
And I think that comes from not being like, I don't know, just like you need to be able to evolve and to grow and to change what you're doing so that it's fresh for you too. And I think that translates as well to the audience as well. I think that's the key to longevity, is not a not getting into a sleep.

00:51:04:19 - 00:51:31:02
Speaker 2
That painting painting was pretty monotonous. I was every year finding, inventing some new trick, learning. You can mix these two products and finally get in to see down and not show grain and how to cut in lines faster because you underbid a hotel and you have 40 rooms to paint is like, I like the challenge, but I think in the day I like at the end of my 20 years of doing that, I was like, I literally haven't invented anything in two years.

00:51:31:02 - 00:51:43:23
Speaker 2
And I can't wait every day to get home to go work on the channel. But the channel had 10,000 subscribers. It doesn't pay the bills 121,000 subscribers does not pay the bill.

00:51:43:23 - 00:51:58:00
Speaker 1
I think that again, I think that's like so crucial for people to know. I think that like we get so obsessed with like, oh wow, they got like 50,000 or like, oh, I had a video that had 400,000 views. It really doesn't matter.

00:51:58:06 - 00:51:59:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, it does.

00:51:59:16 - 00:52:07:21
Speaker 1
And it doesn't like it's not like this Oh he's, he's made it, it's done. He can retire. It's not like that. It's it's YouTube.

00:52:07:21 - 00:52:43:22
Speaker 2
Ad revenue is a myth if you're doing channels you literally make five times more per click then a channel like mine doing watching financial channels, because then financial places can advertise and they get to their bid higher to be like come over to Gemini or Coinbase or whatever. And it's like they make so much money off of you, they can pay $10 per thousand views, whereas who is advertising before my videos before I test?

00:52:43:22 - 00:52:53:14
Speaker 2
Hold on. None that can do cinema tapers like like whooping on El Capitan.

00:52:53:14 - 00:52:56:12
Speaker 1
Like who's who's going to put an advertising on video for that.

00:52:56:15 - 00:52:59:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so my ad revenue when I channel.

00:52:59:10 - 00:52:59:21
Speaker 3
An ultra.

00:52:59:22 - 00:53:00:19
Speaker 2
Widescreen.

00:53:00:23 - 00:53:02:07
Speaker 1
Always a service said.

00:53:02:07 - 00:53:03:02
Speaker 3
Charmin ultra.

00:53:03:02 - 00:53:29:07
Speaker 2
Wipes Yeah dude dude wipes. Yeah it's a half a million views a month which is what I was averaging for most of this year was about 12 to 1300 a month. An ad revenue that doesn't even pay my hard cost of lab rent. My subscription stuff doesn't count the stuff I'm breaking that I'm not trying to break. Because in every episode where I break a series of things, something broke.

00:53:29:07 - 00:53:38:19
Speaker 2
I wasn't trying to break in the machine. I have broken more steel carabiners on accident than aluminum carabiners on accident. Yeah, there's they're not.

00:53:38:19 - 00:54:00:06
Speaker 3
It's pretty wild. How do you how do you view your exponential growth? Because earlier we were talking about essentially like persevering through adversity. And it's kind of one of those things where you have these moments, you think of quitting. But if you actually look at like the long term trajectory from, you know, whatever, some kind of graph you're looking at, how do you view that long term trajectory?

00:54:00:06 - 00:54:05:16
Speaker 3
You think if you just hang in there long enough that you're going to continue like to see the viewership build enough?

00:54:06:20 - 00:54:32:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. I thought exponential growth was a thing, right? Because I would double every year. But like, it's easy to double when you're smaller and then you branch out into climbing like a bigger audience. I was stuck at 30,000 subscribers for a long time. This is like four and a half years into a channel. Like you're getting 1500 views of video, you're getting 30 views on a video for the first year.

00:54:32:16 - 00:54:51:07
Speaker 2
You have to have the tenacity to make a video that takes you all week for 30 people to watch. And then, of course, they're newer videos. You don't know what you're doing. And so, yeah, four of them were kind of hard on you, right? But usually you can sniff out a new channel. Usually you like cheering them on more and you're watching them grow.

00:54:51:11 - 00:55:17:23
Speaker 2
Anyways. You get stuck around 2000 subscribers for the longest time, then 30. We're talking a year of just nothing. I went from 80,000 at the beginning of this year, got an algorithm bump and by March I was at maybe 100,000, maybe March or April. And it took me all that time to today to get to 121,000, to go from 100 to 120.

00:55:17:23 - 00:55:42:00
Speaker 2
Isn't that big of a jump when I'm now putting out the really good big wall videos, I screw videos, really tight edits. I'll spend 20 hours editing a video. I used to spend two and it's just like people say, Oh, the videos are getting better. The content is getting better. I'm like, Yeah, why aren't people subscribing? Some of that is because it comes in waves.

00:55:42:09 - 00:56:09:22
Speaker 2
Other parts. It's because people finally go outside. You cannot base. Let's say you were a mass company your sales from 2020 or I'm sorry let's use a better example. Netflix. You can't base your sales in 2020 and think that you're going to get that forever. Is everyone just stuck at home? YouTube the same way We're in a depression in YouTube right now too, where the viewership is about half of what it used to be because people have lives, which is awesome.

00:56:10:21 - 00:56:34:05
Speaker 2
But then they don't they're not allowed to click as much in an Advertisers don't want to pay as much because they're all feeling the crunch. We haven't even had a real crunch yet. Traffic. And so my ad revenue has literally not gone up in three years because the not revenue is not why I do it. People think, like you said, people think you're like making money, the lifeblood of.

00:56:34:05 - 00:57:01:10
Speaker 2
The channel was always donations. You're going to ask about like, do people donate gear? Yes. About half the videos I break, I bought the gear. It's actually saves money. But now, because I really want to answer an actual question, I bought the ice fruits. I want to do ice screws at one of them. I'm not going to go to Iceland, get seven people to help put all that energy into something and then test something that's like 15 years old because that's all I could get my hands on it.

00:57:01:10 - 00:57:01:22
Speaker 1
Exactly.

00:57:02:20 - 00:57:29:07
Speaker 2
And so if I get exactly what I want in order to make exactly the best video I can, because that's all I care about, is making the best video I can. Sometimes not having old gear is important. Sometimes having old gear is important. If you're missing dog bones, everyone's got dogs. If they want me to break in, somebody's going to say, Douglas, we want to know what these dog bones that were left on a perma permafrost nylon slings is perma drawers.

00:57:29:13 - 00:57:52:14
Speaker 2
Bad idea. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know what those are breaking out too. That is an amazing resource that we can do something we haven't really advertised yet though I will, in about January, be more ready is send us your stuff and we will more regularly just break what you give us. You know, these came from here. They broke like this.

00:57:52:14 - 00:58:04:15
Speaker 2
Here's a couple of thoughts from our experience breaking stuff. Click the thing that looks like the thumbs up and send us your stuff here, period is a five minute video charts. We I'm not trying to, like, prove anything.

00:58:05:01 - 00:58:07:06
Speaker 1
Just like people are just what you want to see.

00:58:07:11 - 00:58:22:05
Speaker 2
People want to know how it breaks it, send it to me. But I also, if I'm going to make a Wednesday gold episode about totems, I'm going and I'm going to go to a real rock. I spent all weekend breaking these things. I'm just going to spend three or 400 bucks and.

00:58:22:10 - 00:58:28:14
Speaker 1
Do the video, do it right. And I think the investment will pay off. And the longer it does.

00:58:29:00 - 00:58:59:21
Speaker 2
I in the past, I've put up the money for the slack. That machine people donated. I put up ten grand for Bolt Busters. I've got more than that back in the donations from people typing, posting Bible from just they read it they donated 100 bucks, never charged for any of my content. I've never had to. Basically, if people stop donating, I would stop like because that's a great metric to know if people value it and you don't want to write a book and have 200 people read it.

00:59:00:14 - 00:59:26:10
Speaker 2
I want 200,000 people to read it and a thousand of them to spot me 20 bucks, you're going to make more money doing it. That model anyways. But this way I want you to know about books more than you do. Like, if you're going to trust your life, it's not. I have to explain this to people like it's not about if you're going to put them in, you're going to clip this piece of metal you know nothing about some other person.

00:59:26:11 - 00:59:50:02
Speaker 2
Hi, put in. It's nice to understand what you're clipping when you can, when you can't trust it, you know what could be behind it? And you either have more gear, fear or less, depending on the bullets you come up to. At least you understand the concept. How should like, why should any of us be using gear? We can spend 20 minutes and learn about.

00:59:50:02 - 01:00:09:19
Speaker 2
Our goal is to make the A bolting Bible video that teaches you everything you need to know in 7 minutes. And it's basically is like, I'm going to more or less summarize the entire in by offering segment so you don't have to go read the voting Bible because I just made it 400 pages on Twitter. And the main part is like a glorified table of contents.

01:00:09:19 - 01:00:33:19
Speaker 2
Go chase the rabbit, whatever rabbits interesting to you. And we want to answer every question about bolts. I want to break every knot that's ever been tied. I want to break 10,000 old pieces of gear that people have and organize it in a way that you can go see every cam we've tested, every dog bone. We've tested all the context of all these things.

01:00:34:12 - 01:00:54:00
Speaker 2
And that's what the A to Z content is for the big wall Bible is literally a glorified table of contents for all the videos we're making into like chicken or the egg like, But people just want to see totems break in slow motion. So I'm like, hold on, hold on. I need to show people how to put them in.

01:00:54:00 - 01:01:15:23
Speaker 2
There's a lot of people they don't even know what a totems. And and so to pull the audience back in go, this is how you send most the audience just wants to see the ascender when it strips the rope when it decides it. But I'm like, Oh God, I got to tell. Like, there's so many people that just watch the channel because they're like, interested in what we're doing.

01:01:16:08 - 01:01:25:15
Speaker 2
They don't do it themselves. I want to like, catch people up. Message Yesterday, somebody said, I don't climb tempted to start because you make it look fun, but like.

01:01:25:19 - 01:01:26:15
Speaker 1
Like success.

01:01:26:22 - 01:02:03:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm like, I'm an undergrad. I call myself an undercover slack miner. Whereas I'm like, We need more slack liners. I want to like, go make how not to more popular in these other sports to let everyone know slack line is the thing we're all tired of hearing. What's that and canyoning this is like kind of young enough and and you don't see people Canyon they're deep in the slot and if you've never heard of it before, I'm like What's that You go down the waterfall and this is horrible I like that's my bailing And so I was like caving.

01:02:03:20 - 01:02:22:10
Speaker 2
I didn't realize how much people did it or what they could do in caves and do it. Just expose people and cross-pollinate like this and this exist. Look what we can learn from cavers on how to ascend big walls. Easier. If you're going to fix 600 feet of rope, you can use the frog system to go up. You don't have to use the big wall style.

01:02:22:18 - 01:02:39:06
Speaker 2
It's exhausting. And canyon years have so many tricks, lots of ghosting tricks. So it's like if you have to repel on something that's weird, you have all these bags of tricks that you can pull from because you watched some other sport. Yeah, that's cool.

01:02:39:21 - 01:02:48:02
Speaker 1
I think that I mean, obviously the thing that is like that relates to all the sports together is the gear we're all using. Somewhat similar here.

01:02:48:11 - 01:02:59:03
Speaker 2
I hope next year to focus more on nuts and bolts on Saturdays because that's universal to any of these sports we cover and then do something specific niche on a Wednesday for.

01:02:59:13 - 01:03:33:12
Speaker 1
Let's say, climbers only or cavers or something. So on that note, this is a climbing podcast. Let's let's dive into some of the the nitty gritty. And I don't know, numerical tests that kind of knowledge that you've gained from testing climbing gear over over the years. My first question in your in your videos, I've seen a progressive load on your machine and I've seen your shock loading with the drop test.

01:03:34:01 - 01:03:40:08
Speaker 1
Talk to us a little bit about the differences between the two and what their applications in real life are.

01:03:40:21 - 01:04:01:19
Speaker 2
So yeah, sometimes when we pull things slowly, which is a hundred times easier, at least with the setup I have now, people like all we don't pull stuff like that. I'm like, Yeah, but my camera can capture what's going on and you can't. Like, you can learn so much from locally. A lot of gear company says that you're slow pulling submarines.

01:04:01:19 - 01:04:23:15
Speaker 2
The thing but it's way more fun to drop £300 on something you see at great fun fact you can't break very much at £300 if you attach a even a static rope to it. Static ropes are not static, they're stretchy, just not as stretchy. And so the drop tower that we built is just as much of a learning curve as food sells.

01:04:24:08 - 01:04:51:18
Speaker 2
And we had to figure out how to break stuff. It wouldn't break it, which is great, but it doesn't make for a great video, huh? Thanks for watching. We broke nothing today. It's a good conclusion. But as far as how gear fails, I just. I just can't wait to find it. Not steal different ropes, break twice as high or twice as low and you just like it's anticlimax stick.

01:04:51:18 - 01:05:17:19
Speaker 2
You ready for this? It's all about the same. It's all the same. Even Dynamo Dynamo. The 12 raid dynamo that we use. It's just like it's not breaking different in the drop tower in Dynamo. Engineers have told me it'll do this or it'll do this, and it's. It was 20 kilometers. It's just like my slow pull. And I was like, Damn, I'm just waiting for like the ultimate episode where I discover something.

01:05:18:08 - 01:05:22:15
Speaker 1
So you're saying during these shock load tests, you're getting the same strength rating when you're slow?

01:05:22:15 - 01:05:34:14
Speaker 2
Pulse Yeah, it's intense. The only thing that changes if you're pulling on a cam is the friction. Oh, my gosh. Cams. I started with metal plate.

01:05:34:17 - 01:05:35:18
Speaker 1
So that's the next question.

01:05:35:18 - 01:05:37:01
Speaker 2
Okay. The great surface.

01:05:37:01 - 01:05:38:01
Speaker 1
Material that you all.

01:05:38:02 - 01:06:05:05
Speaker 2
Regard. And then so I went to the black Diamond lab and I'm like, they, they have metal plates, but they it and I'm like, oh, and they have a very specific neuro. Well, I had a very smooth metal, but I think it's so fascinating to watch a cam slip at a relatively low force, because if you're working with rock that's new there, that is wet.

01:06:05:20 - 01:06:33:01
Speaker 2
It's nice to know that the outward force doesn't compensate for the fact that it's metal just sliding. And we have it made a rock adapter. It kind of flexes because, like, that's the nature of it. But even that still slips. The more gear I test, the less I trust rock or ice or whatever I'm putting this thing in.

01:06:34:07 - 01:06:55:02
Speaker 2
It's the gear is pretty good. Usually. It's usually either how you put it in, but I've seen more rock fail than I have Thames fail. I think that's where a lot of people's cams will blow on them is usually like, let's say, placement, but the rocks move. Let me iterate this. The rocks move. I do not care how big they are.

01:06:55:07 - 01:07:13:21
Speaker 2
We had a 100 ton rock on top of another rock and we're going to put pitons in there and the power of a wedge. And when we pulled it out, you can see the rock drop. And when we tried to pull over an edge, right like, I can't just test this on the notes. Where where do people think I'm supposed to test this?

01:07:14:04 - 01:07:34:03
Speaker 2
You're me. Rock huggers are out there. They're so mad that I'm testing it on this. Brought this cover with shotgun shells and graffiti and people's last redneck party crap. I'm like, Nobody cares about this rock chipping away. It's how rocks look the way they do now. They've been chipping away for a while and not just chill out. That's.

01:07:34:03 - 01:08:02:05
Speaker 2
How do you think I got here? There was a road for 100 miles that was chipped out of this rock. So it's hard to get people off the rock thing. You get it in the crack and you pull iron to pull on it hard enough. To kill a Newtons is what, 4000 something pounds? Almost like you're removing the rock in an open and therefore the lobes open and therefore it comes out and you don't have a conclusion now and you're like, idea, how am I supposed to make a video without a conclusion?

01:08:03:19 - 01:08:11:12
Speaker 2
We broke stuff. We said, Wow, after every test, do what you want with the information. And that's how a lot of those videos ended up.

01:08:11:12 - 01:08:21:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's a lot of the outdoor tests with hands and the nuts. It definitely seemed like the rock was failing way sooner than the cams were. Like, almost every time.

01:08:21:23 - 01:08:33:11
Speaker 2
You're throwing these behind flakes. Oh, that's the only thing that makes my butt pucker anymore. It's just like you're putting a roughly four times the amount of force. So if you're, like, just sitting on it.

01:08:33:12 - 01:08:34:10
Speaker 1
It's like towards edge all the.

01:08:34:19 - 01:08:51:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. You're leveraging it and if you're like let's say one and you did and this puts four times more force outward, which we want to test that's for and that's £1,000 of force being pulled on that rock. Yeah.

01:08:51:00 - 01:09:20:13
Speaker 1
I want to talk about Totem specifically because they're just such a hot topic, the hot ticket item right now. Everyone loves these and I love them to the headship. This is so great for placements. There are two things about this cam that I want to ask you in and just kind of cover. First is believe there is a misunderstanding with these camps that a single lobe placement is strong enough to hold a full.

01:09:20:13 - 01:09:29:01
Speaker 1
I've heard that from a lot of people. I watched your video. What did your like tests so show?

01:09:29:08 - 01:09:31:16
Speaker 2
Very hard to test just to.

01:09:31:16 - 01:09:33:04
Speaker 1
Look at the placements.

01:09:33:09 - 01:09:59:21
Speaker 2
Because I what I did is I just clipped one of the loops and more or less I'm getting the most maximum strength you could ever get. The other lobe is engaged, right? Which is supporting the stem, which is supporting the other side. What I want to do is create a crack that won't do that even if I have to cut a groove in a rock and set it in there and then hold it with the slack.

01:09:59:21 - 01:10:22:10
Speaker 2
So I will figure this out. But they say total absence, what, two kilometers or something, which is not enough to hold it all. The whole point is you can do hard aid where you're only that bodyweight like bounce test and you're good. I wouldn't want to take a whipper if it's the only thing you can get is great psychological gear.

01:10:23:00 - 01:10:46:13
Speaker 2
And it's like psychologically or I think it helps a lot. It can add safety if it can keep your head clear. But I mean, this the strength of it, it depends. It depends how good it is in the rock is. If it rotates at all, it doesn't have the stability. In theory, it could hold the fall. But if you're only using two loves, you don't have perfect scenario.

01:10:47:01 - 01:10:48:16
Speaker 2
You know, perfect scenario.

01:10:48:16 - 01:10:56:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's good. I just wanted to cover that because it definitely I've heard a bunch of people say that it's great you can play sensible over the whole fall. It's not true.

01:10:57:06 - 01:11:11:04
Speaker 2
It very rarely could be true. But people just ask me before. It's like, Why do you love Totem so much in the big wall course? And I'm like, I don't know how to quantify that with a pull test.

01:11:11:04 - 01:11:11:13
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01:11:11:21 - 01:11:35:23
Speaker 2
The low shape is unique even to see fours that the when anybody places it who's ever placed enough camps is like wow and go buys a rack nobody like most people are not buying it for the two lobes feature are they are because they don't know and then then they get it in the place and you're like, Oh my gosh, this almost replaces my alien.

01:11:37:06 - 01:11:38:11
Speaker 2
Still an alien lover.

01:11:38:11 - 01:12:08:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, but the second thing real quick on these totems I just wanted to cover, is this what we'll be talking about before? And I think Max, I don't know. Alpine is one of the guys that we followed on Instagram kind of covered this. It was the fact that the triggers have wires that retract the actual head, and then you've got these wires down here that hold the weight, the wires that hold weight.

01:12:09:04 - 01:12:28:00
Speaker 1
There's three of them. And it's one of these tiny little wires. They'll The whole side of the lobe is gone. It's no longer active. There's not weight bearing anymore. And so I just think that's important for everybody to know. I don't know. It's hard to see some.

01:12:28:02 - 01:12:28:10
Speaker 2
Merit to.

01:12:28:10 - 01:12:51:08
Speaker 1
This. Yeah. Because it's like, yeah. So the triggers here are retracting the heads. That's it. That's it. That's all they're there for. The weight is being held by the center of the stem here for the C4 with the totem. There's no center stem. It's not, they're not holding the weight. Not holding the weight. So you've got these tiny wires that hold the way through the head of the camp here.

01:12:51:14 - 01:13:09:03
Speaker 1
And so if one of those breaks, the whole lobe is disengaged. And so I think that most applicable for that is in a horizontal placement. It's shallow enough and you've got a sharp edge and you cut one of these wires. I can't completely. So just another little thing about totems, and I think it's important to know.

01:13:09:09 - 01:13:18:13
Speaker 2
And that could be super fun to take a wire cutter stick in the camp pressure and and demonstrate that or find out that the other two are still working because it's.

01:13:20:00 - 01:13:20:19
Speaker 1
It's shipping.

01:13:21:08 - 01:13:38:03
Speaker 2
I don't know. Yeah, but what's nice is the fact that one side is still holding a bunch. It is actually independent. I wouldn't actually be worried if one broke as much as like, Oh my God, completely failing. I'm just like, Dammit, I got to combine. In total, I would.

01:13:38:10 - 01:13:42:16
Speaker 1
Like to know how much force the camp would hold if you snip all of these wires.

01:13:43:05 - 01:13:51:12
Speaker 2
There. I see. Somebody asked me once a year, we're going to run out of content, you know, because I want to know now too. Yeah.

01:13:52:15 - 01:13:53:11
Speaker 1
Cool. Yeah. I don't remember.

01:13:53:11 - 01:14:11:08
Speaker 3
What the exact post was. I think that was Quinn. Turner was climbing in the box. It was a black tome and. Yeah, something with the wire. When it broke, it disengaged. One of the lobes and then the cam popped out. So I'm wondering if when the log disengaged the cam rotated probably. And so I think it popped out of the cracks.

01:14:11:08 - 01:14:34:01
Speaker 3
So it was just interesting to see I was like I was like, wow, that's like something I've never considered with the totem, right? Which is really, really interesting. And in the design aspect of that, do you have any, any like favorite Cam Ryan, do you think like out of all your testing in your break testing and stuff, is there like something that stood out to you particularly, or do you think, you know nuance and subjectivity?

01:14:34:01 - 01:14:35:15
Speaker 3
Just the situation matters?

01:14:36:22 - 01:15:02:16
Speaker 2
I think a lot of people make purchase decisions based on strength, and it's just that one party trick I know. And so I'm trying to in that 80 degrees is really talk about more about the gear itself because there's more context than I love aliens they have soft metal lobes. Shape is great, the flexible stem is great. I also have the memorized when I'm in a crack, I've never actually use the force.

01:15:03:01 - 01:15:30:09
Speaker 2
I don't know how a Z4 performs, but I love how narrow the head of an alien is. The Z4 doesn't look as narrow, but the totems I basically carry laugh, if you may. A quad rack of aliens. A quad rack of totems when I'm big walling because a a double rack of aliens or having two hybrids of each.

01:15:30:09 - 01:16:03:09
Speaker 2
Right. That's ten cans. There's five things. And camp diamonds, the lightweight, full sized carabiners, way less than a second whole bag. If you and your partner want to take a whole bag, the whole bag empty. So I think it's nice as long as you keep things organized. I love having these weightless. A black totem. I have four of these because I clip carabiner for these hanging down like a dress going almost to my ankles, sort of of totems because they don't weight anything.

01:16:03:11 - 01:16:28:17
Speaker 2
And the carabiners I choose way nothing. But those two cams are my favorite. And then see fours are just all around great I, I don't want to I don't want to shoot on companies too hard because it's like I root for every company. They're all putting something out there for people. But the lower priced products, there's companies that specialize in better prices.

01:16:29:16 - 01:16:50:09
Speaker 2
It doesn't save you money because as soon as you use it, you're like kind of like it doesn't work. And then you feel like you have to go buy the right stuff a second time if you spend all this money. And so I, I that's why it's worth buying things that look more expensive. And it might look weird because I promote Extreme Gorg.

01:16:50:09 - 01:17:10:11
Speaker 2
It's a store. So I don't care what product you buy. Keeps more neutral. But like for me to tell you to go buy the most expensive gear might not sound genuine, but it's like, No, you're going to buy gear twice. There is some gear that you can get cheaper and be totally okay with totems and see for a triple rack.

01:17:10:11 - 01:17:12:16
Speaker 2
And that's expensive. It's expensive.

01:17:12:16 - 01:17:19:16
Speaker 1
These especially hard to find to carry your in town. They're 20% off right now.

01:17:19:22 - 01:17:42:13
Speaker 2
Yeah we're this the first time ever that totems actually giving a legal sale like that's not legal before but this is like Black Friday thing. We're even able to give a discount extreme gear which is rare that a company will do that. I don't know why they're doing that. People are buying them anyways. But the last.

01:17:42:13 - 01:17:44:07
Speaker 1
Question just by totems. Yeah.

01:17:45:01 - 01:17:46:03
Speaker 2
Onyx, New York.

01:17:46:08 - 01:18:08:12
Speaker 1
You go Next question about forces bounce tests. I've always had some questions about how much force is really generated if you are attached statically to a piece and you are just like railing on it with the bounce test, like do you have any quick numbers in terms of what forces you can generate? Read about this.

01:18:08:12 - 01:18:19:14
Speaker 2
I have done a couple of tests like that and I am £160 and there's contacts there and I'll struggle to get over three continents.

01:18:19:14 - 01:18:21:03
Speaker 1
Okay. And you're just like.

01:18:21:12 - 01:18:42:17
Speaker 2
I see art. I mean, you're also been in your harness all day. So, like, it's sitting in soft spots, but yeah, like a foot pump, you know, the quick foot test, the hand jerk test does not. It's not about the force you generate. It's just the quick action to see if the lugs are going to slip, to see if it stays in the position you put it in.

01:18:43:21 - 01:18:50:19
Speaker 2
But if you're going to yard on it, you might get four at the most, but you could generate five in a fall.

01:18:50:19 - 01:18:51:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01:18:51:14 - 01:19:01:17
Speaker 2
But I mean, if you just bounce just everything as you go up, assuming we're talking like eight climbing, something's going to hold you if everything's holding. Yeah, more or less.

01:19:02:08 - 01:19:23:15
Speaker 1
That's good enough. Yeah, because, I mean, I don't know if you maximize this whole podcast was based around climbing accidents. We both got in, we both fell almost at the same time. Both broke, bilateral ankles shattered calcaneus. Mine was actually from a failed knot. I broke the wire. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's a five killed it not I broke it, Wire exploded.

01:19:23:15 - 01:19:30:19
Speaker 1
The head was still in the wall I retrieved it downstairs. Small, small diamond. But it was actually it was.

01:19:30:21 - 01:19:35:16
Speaker 2
It's just like a string. Three.

01:19:35:16 - 01:19:37:01
Speaker 1
It was like just a little bit small.

01:19:38:10 - 01:19:42:19
Speaker 2
And the cable broke around the resistance. Yeah. Cables don't like to get pinched.

01:19:42:22 - 01:19:52:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. And that's like, that was part of the question. All the tests in the videos and stuff. The cams are failing here. Yeah. At the base of what do you call this.

01:19:52:20 - 01:19:54:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. The thumb loop. Yeah.

01:19:54:14 - 01:20:02:10
Speaker 1
Where the base of the carabiners clip to it. Right. Yeah. But does this sheath mitigate that or is it still going to break here.

01:20:02:16 - 01:20:20:08
Speaker 2
Well, yeah. There's like extra fabric. It typically would break here and then we clip here to break here and then we try to clip something else you get sometimes the old C-4 is have the metal like the Shard. Yes. Yes. And do you like 55 millimeter soft shackle in there? I'm going to break this.

01:20:21:13 - 01:20:24:09
Speaker 1
Yes. The Caribbean engineer breaks off the stuff.

01:20:24:21 - 01:20:42:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. And people it's nice to learn how bendre pieces work. And sometimes you don't learn about the cam necessarily like you signed up for when you click the video, sometimes you learn that the how slings work and how betrayed is his work. But that's why we like showing the process and not just giving you some numbers.

01:20:42:22 - 01:20:57:20
Speaker 1
I like that episode about the Black Diamond. When you talk about how the the ultralight, the dynamics lane goes at a 90 degree Yeah. At the top and it's not supposed to do that but since it's so strong, we're not going to ever apply forces that are going to break it even had an event.

01:20:58:01 - 01:21:11:02
Speaker 2
Yeah they broke they broke a lot of dynamic rules. But that's because what they're using is 40 kill and it and stronger 30 and they only need it to be 12 because that's just as strong as it is.

01:21:11:02 - 01:21:15:08
Speaker 1
Interesting. That's where the breaking point is absolute every time that 90 degree.

01:21:15:10 - 01:21:38:01
Speaker 2
Yeah because it's only a tiny pen holding that up and I was just so curious how are they? It is a normal slide because I'm a guy nerd and rarely do climbers ever see 12 great anymore. The hollow break stuff looks like a snakeskin. They usually see climbing slings like the mahmoud that made up dynamo. Probably some of these stairs.

01:21:38:01 - 01:21:38:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, with.

01:21:38:15 - 01:21:56:03
Speaker 2
Gear gear all have done even slings. That's in a very webbing shape by then and they put that enough thumb but they did it Well yeah I'm convinced or bomber they're just expensive but they're lighter like they did they added value for the money.

01:21:56:04 - 01:21:57:07
Speaker 1
There was a 30% or.

01:21:58:06 - 01:22:02:01
Speaker 2
30% more mean more money is more.

01:22:02:01 - 01:22:03:04
Speaker 1
Expensive and 30%.

01:22:03:10 - 01:22:13:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, something like that. But like the problem is they also like redid the sea force overall. So now it's only like 20% lighter because they made these so much.

01:22:13:21 - 01:22:17:09
Speaker 1
These are sick. I love these. Yeah.

01:22:17:09 - 01:22:42:22
Speaker 3
So I got two things here real quick. So okay, as far as like a perfect application in like a lab scenario, what is the force you're seeing? Like Cam's break, whether that's like the sling or the actual thumb loop. And then the second part to the question is like and then to take that into a more real world application, let's assume the user is putting it in pretty darn good quality.

01:22:42:22 - 01:22:52:09
Speaker 3
It's a pretty good placement. At what force are we like, you know, slippage from the lobes and probably the raw quality breaking or the cam popping.

01:22:54:00 - 01:23:23:22
Speaker 2
What's crazy is like, let's approach a ten of the same cam the same way. The number it might only be a three Newton variance but at 12. Mm three is help me here 20% like this is a huge percent of a variance and and it's interesting even like knots especially like the webbing on the cans, that soft material has even a bigger range.

01:23:24:05 - 01:23:53:01
Speaker 2
So once things are more consistent, but at the end of the day, like a cam, anything over eight is fine. Like you're going to hate your aunt and sees more than eight. And I rarely you'll get a cam that will break below that. Usually we're saying wow and making it the intro like it's a big deal. If it's breaking lower than that, unless you're breaking what, triple zeros and stuff and nobody's trying to whip on that.

01:23:53:05 - 01:23:55:14
Speaker 2
Throw a screamer on there so they'll get more than two.

01:23:55:14 - 01:24:01:19
Speaker 1
And also, when you're breaking his arms, it's under so much force and load that it's just like crushing and it's getting completely demolished.

01:24:01:20 - 01:24:15:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Number ones, I think, are the strongest. And then they start getting weaker after that because of Crush Break, the number 21 cam. And I'm like, there's only three in existence. But the loves would crush. So it's just like I think.

01:24:15:18 - 01:24:25:13
Speaker 1
That that's the big caveat here is that like yeah these cams are testing for 12 but if your body goes through that amount of force, you're going to have a lot of other problems to be dealing with.

01:24:25:14 - 01:24:49:11
Speaker 2
So in real rock, the answer, the real raw question, if you slow poll, we're getting pretty high numbers. Unless the rock moves. And then and if you like your cam crushers flexing, that's not done. And you're like yeah, the rocks out we had, we have to drill. It's moving to it. But back to the 4.0, the fact that I can take my wedge, I don't have to use hydraulics.

01:24:49:11 - 01:25:27:09
Speaker 2
Hydraulics are heavy. I can I can play with different cracks. Now that might be I have to have a crack. Let me do it. I literally between three feet and six feet that no one's using because I can't be up in the air. I can't pull straight down. I'm using hydraulics. Usually when I'm doing an hour or ten friends and I can't have it in the ground because I got to be able to pull up and I'm pulling him straight out or I'm trying to redirect through a pulley and that generates 147 something percent more force.

01:25:27:09 - 01:25:56:03
Speaker 2
And in a pulley bolt comes out and it's like as you're testing old friends around a corner in the stem is super strong in that high beam, for God's sake. Yeah, in. So testing real wrong. Bobby and I are over it. We built a bolt adapter that's a four inch rod that I drill a hole all the way through it, drilled it with epoxy, put a glue in heat, it up, remove it after I tested and put in another one, use a real rug.

01:25:56:12 - 01:26:16:03
Speaker 2
I'm testing the weld from the manufacturer because what I would limestone and I promised I would do that for someone. The limestone kept breaking it. Oh man, kids are hard. Answer your question. It's all in how you put them in. And it depends on the Rocky. Put them in.

01:26:16:17 - 01:26:31:01
Speaker 3
So is it is it fair to say that you're like generally without a margin error, you're looking at about five K and Cam's probably in worst case scenario, breaking it a breaking it ACORN mode.

01:26:31:01 - 01:26:41:14
Speaker 1
I've got I've filtered through a lot of your videos and I would say most of these cams, if they're not ripping out of the rock because of the poor placement of the rock moving, we're seeing anywhere from 9 to 14.

01:26:41:14 - 01:26:47:16
Speaker 2
9 to 2010. Something like like is a lot, a lot.

01:26:48:01 - 01:26:53:19
Speaker 3
But so the margins is almost it's almost doubled in like even pretty bad scenarios, if that makes sense.

01:26:54:08 - 01:27:23:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. My take on climbing into the rad five seven claimer I look, I find Pliny to be kind of dangerous because when you're going up, you know every piece has to hold for you. Yeah because Yeah. Especially close to the bottom mass. Right. It's like the rope stretches. Even if your partner is paying attention. And so once you're high enough off the ground, I'll climb most anything.

01:27:23:09 - 01:28:03:17
Speaker 2
Once I'm like one pitch off the ground and it's a clean fall. I don't care if something blows or it's a free rope. But when the this y like big walling get me off the ground. Yeah, but then even sport climbing, like if you don't click the draw right or and clips get this get this ready anchors are redundant and people jerk off to that on Instagram and how they can make it bomber So you can do what top rope the follower but you're taking six delineating rippers are non locking terror beaters on single point to fill that if any of them blow you relying on the one below you're relying on the ground stop

01:28:04:01 - 01:28:26:22
Speaker 2
it's like holy cow, people have it. You can I'll get on it. I'll get on it. Snake die. Take a fucking bolt out of the anchor and put a word. Fucking would help in there instead of having these two bolt anchors. If you're so worried about how many baskets, God forbid, we wouldn't want another via Ferrata on Half Dome.

01:28:26:22 - 01:28:30:15
Speaker 2
But I'll get off that now. Yeah, I know.

01:28:30:20 - 01:28:49:06
Speaker 3
I think that's I think that's really interesting what you were saying. Like taking from my own experience, I was just yesterday I was mixed climbing at this like simple mixed climbing crag. It's maybe like m four and five. First time of the season, I'm going out. I lead a climb on board, actually took like a really unsuspecting, which was like kind of like, good to get it out of the system.

01:28:49:14 - 01:29:08:02
Speaker 3
And then I led the line on gear afterwards and like, you know, I'm like five feet up. The first only placement is like a point one. I'm £200 guy. Point one doesn't look very good. You know, I get up another move. There's like a nice point, too. It's really deep in the rock. And then I get up to the third move and I'm like, All right.

01:29:08:02 - 01:29:26:03
Speaker 3
It got like, very little confident at this point, too, in point one, which is like, the difference between me and a life altering fall is going to be really good. And so then I finally get this nice point three, and then I'm looking and analyzing this and I'm like, okay, well, this is now I don't have faith in the two cans below me, even though they're place really well.

01:29:26:03 - 01:29:45:10
Speaker 3
So I've got one can between me and a ground fall. And so I put a really well-placed tri cam and then equalize those two pieces and put it together. And if you watch videos of like pros climbing and stuff and flash are just places a piece and goes up 20 feet in place is another piece. You know, I've seen enough of those to be like, am I a bad climber or something?

01:29:45:10 - 01:30:05:08
Speaker 3
But the reality is when you're like calculating this and you're literally off the deck and I'm not Alex Honnold, you know, it's like these are really important calculations to make. And as well, like you were saying, your first pitch off the ground, you know, every body length you've now moved. If you're one piece below, you pops like, yeah.

01:30:05:08 - 01:30:07:05
Speaker 1
You're, you're, you're, you know.

01:30:07:06 - 01:30:37:21
Speaker 3
Vertigo. Gravity is going to hit you really hard when you deck the ground. You know, it's, it's, it is something weird to calculate that I feel like there's maybe it's in my mind but this weird perception in the media of like you're supposed to climb 15 feet and then place one perfect camp and then move up 15 more And like, you're like, I see that in climbing videos, but in, in reality, that's that's lunacy, you know, Any wrong thing happens with that one piece and literally, like, game over, you know, you're a pancake and it's wild.

01:30:38:23 - 01:30:41:07
Speaker 1
Yeah just don't watch me climbing.

01:30:41:16 - 01:30:53:10
Speaker 2
I literally where it matters putting two maybe three cans in and that the anchor you might be lucky if I put in one number three if I don't just get belay you because I know it's like nothing compared to like we just.

01:30:53:10 - 01:31:11:15
Speaker 1
Did. So yeah, like I just recently did a59 plus that had drought and there is this like live next section that was a little small and it was taking it took a black totem at the bottom and then it took three. And so I put the black totem in about three feet above wine to put a point three.

01:31:11:15 - 01:31:31:14
Speaker 1
And then I put another three above that. Yeah. Right next to each other. And I'm just like, all right, like, I'm good. I'm good. Yeah, I got about three pieces, like it's going to hold, but like you said, Max, like I'm a £200 guy, and with the trademark, I'm pushing to ten. Like, I need to have confidence in the smaller gear.

01:31:31:14 - 01:31:51:14
Speaker 1
I broke a five piece in a fall, you know, a black totem is rated to six. I could probably break this. And that's not even to say to break it, but to rip it out of the wall. Like you have to take that into consideration, too. I think that, you know, talking with Ryan here and understanding how strong these cams are when they're placed right.

01:31:51:14 - 01:32:12:06
Speaker 1
And still understanding how many people are getting injured and how many people are dying from gear failing. It's not because of the manufacturers errors, it's user errors quality. It's an education on on how to places gear in the first place, how to make it risk. And I think that that's like the big thing to take home is like in the end it's your fault because you didn't put it in.

01:32:12:06 - 01:32:36:14
Speaker 1
Right. And you've got to got to mitigate that error because the one thing that freaks me out about gear is like, you don't really know it's going to hold until you fall, right? You don't really know until you fall on it. And that's not a risk that you really want to have to take every time. And so, yeah, backing up the gear, doubling up gear where you think you need it should be a practice that I think is more, more often I'm encouraged by.

01:32:37:00 - 01:32:38:08
Speaker 3
Absolutely there.

01:32:38:08 - 01:33:00:19
Speaker 2
Is there is a time to not be afraid but respect the situation you're in and there's a time you do not have to be afraid. And I find people don't always have them in the right spot. And when you're ready to pull anchor on clean bolts, you don't have to be afraid of anything other than rappelling off the interior.

01:33:01:04 - 01:33:23:12
Speaker 2
It's just like it's very safe at that point. But you should be really respectful of the fact that you're just flipping quick draws up or your partner is you've got human error there in the blaze. But now you can see why I gravitated towards highlighting. Yeah, because you don't get on until you know it's safe and you going to overkill it if you don't know.

01:33:23:21 - 01:33:30:00
Speaker 2
And you can do apocalyptic where you like back it up to the tree 100 feet away that and.

01:33:30:00 - 01:33:30:22
Speaker 1
Then your high off the ground.

01:33:31:14 - 01:33:42:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. High lines that are close to the ground are actually really sketchy because like mainline the back of you drops you a little bit. Yeah higher the better maybe. Yeah.

01:33:42:20 - 01:34:16:05
Speaker 3
But you know, I think back to what you were saying, Kyle built like putting those multiple pieces or equalizing those piece like I had never seen or consumed media where people were climbing like that. You know, like all the media had consumed. I was just that like, you know, legendary climber, light fast run it out stuff. And it's like that is not really the reality, honestly, like either, you're such an expert and you're like £130 rip pro climber that your pieces are all holding, you know, or, you know, I don't know what the alternative to that would be.

01:34:16:05 - 01:34:36:02
Speaker 3
But I think the majority of people, it's like that's just not reality. You know, you're you're scared, you're at a crux. There's a bad fault. Put in the extra right. Like, I think that's something we're really trying to advocate is that like, I don't know, I wish someone had grabbed me, like my injury was related to like trying to climb right and fast move and run things out.

01:34:36:07 - 01:34:51:15
Speaker 3
And it was like, I wish someone had like I had a mentor who was like, No, like, that's that's in like, you know, real rock 100 or something like, that's not actually how like an amateur person who's, like, struggling on five nine should be climbing, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's it's crazy.

01:34:52:17 - 01:35:15:11
Speaker 2
I want to maybe balance that because I 100% agree, But sometimes you can waste so much energy in a futile attempts in a crack that can take nothing. And I mean, is there I don't know if there's a cam that fits sense of yesterday or whatever the thing in Yosemite where it's just pods for the first 30 feet it's don't maybe totems.

01:35:15:11 - 01:35:16:12
Speaker 1
Probably the offsets.

01:35:16:18 - 01:35:41:16
Speaker 2
Maybe offsets, but it's like if you don't like I've watched people spend 20 minutes trying to protect this thing. I'm like and they didn't fall. I'm like, You could have done that fresh in with a clean head. Of being able to stay calm in a stressful situation can be safer than to make a dangerous crack bomber. If it's not going to be bomber, you have to have this acceptance level.

01:35:42:07 - 01:35:59:11
Speaker 2
But if it is like something you could improve on, Absolutely. Throw a three Tamsin at this crux before you try to blast through that, what you might fall on, but also respect the stuff that's easier because you might slip on that too, but like cost confidence in head games.

01:35:59:12 - 01:36:26:21
Speaker 1
And I think that you have to know your ability level like there there is a level of understanding what you because I mean, everybody hopefully understands what their solo level would be like, a level of climbing where you are so in control, you know, unless thunderstruck you or snake bit you in the face or earthquake happened that you're not going to fall off all of a sudden it's not in or the rock breaks like you're control enough of your body movement and the rock around you that you know you're not going to fall.

01:36:27:03 - 01:36:57:21
Speaker 1
I think that the more relationship you can build, an understanding that level allows you to make more judgment like what you're talking about. And when you start to branch into out of that comfort zone and you were like, okay, like I'm no longer in my solo ability, like falling is definitely in the cards here. That's when you start taking protection a lot more seriously and double things up or, you know, just understanding kind of that skill set I think is the first key to to safety in terms of climbing, because the only time you're gonna get hurt is if you fall.

01:36:58:13 - 01:37:21:09
Speaker 2
Understanding your options when you get in a pickle I mean, truly understanding your gear and then understanding flow state in your head space and how you can do well in that and being able to rely on one or the other. But to go up there without that insufficient knowledge and, and in just not having dialed in your head game is.

01:37:21:16 - 01:37:38:13
Speaker 1
Straight up dangerous. And I think that that's yeah, people are doing that a lot of people especially do climbers there's like oh climbing a gym it's drill you know, I'm strong and then you get out here with all those track gear. And climbing is a really easy thing to just go and do, but to do it safely, it's a whole nother ballgame.

01:37:38:21 - 01:37:42:17
Speaker 2
And safely doesn't always mean you get climb with number twos and fill up the crack.

01:37:42:17 - 01:37:47:17
Speaker 1
Like especially like in California. I'm placing more small gear that's out here than I'd like to.

01:37:47:17 - 01:38:07:05
Speaker 2
Or you to off within a year. You're bumping the number six kind of above you and you're just and you realize, yeah, you're like, realize you're way above the last piece and every time you squeeze it, it's not doing anything. But you're like, What are you going to do? Climb over it, risking moving it and then having no number six for the next 30 feet.

01:38:07:13 - 01:38:10:03
Speaker 2
They're top rope, tough guy, and keep pushing that thing up.

01:38:10:23 - 01:38:11:17
Speaker 1
You trust him?

01:38:11:20 - 01:38:13:20
Speaker 3
Yeah. Context matters. Just like gear breaking.

01:38:14:15 - 01:38:14:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:38:15:19 - 01:38:31:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. You know, it's like you could go to Alpine ism, right? It's like, okay, you want to place open tomorrow, but what if there's rockfall and things are heating up and ice is falling down on you more than sitting there and slowly climbing the pitch. You know, you've got yourself into a terrible predicament where it's like, you know, speed can be your friend.

01:38:31:12 - 01:38:46:23
Speaker 3
So there's a million caveats to anything. So I guess for me, when I was talking about placing all the gear I was thinking about, I'm at my end for Crag and Squamish one that job, you know, it's like, no, no need to be a tough guy or something there and there's lots of gear placement.

01:38:46:23 - 01:38:59:06
Speaker 2
So yeah, man, people need to understand time is one of your most valuable resources when you're on a rock Multipage especially a big wall. Even more so water if it's hot.

01:38:59:06 - 01:39:00:05
Speaker 1
Warmth if it's.

01:39:00:05 - 01:39:16:18
Speaker 2
Cold, like sometimes it's safer to climb faster so you don't get cold and make stupid decisions because you like hypothermic or your brain is on fire from the heat. It's like, Man, just put me to one bolt so I can start jogging.

01:39:17:01 - 01:39:19:20
Speaker 1
Come on.

01:39:19:20 - 01:39:33:15
Speaker 2
It's not always the strength of the final piece of gear. And I try to, like, try to get that through a video. Now it's like this was edutainment this does help you understand it, but think holistically about.

01:39:34:09 - 01:39:48:11
Speaker 1
What we're trying to teach real quick before we start talking about this, the future, I want you to build my confidence on these threads. Oh, gosh.

01:39:48:19 - 01:39:50:04
Speaker 3
The former.

01:39:50:06 - 01:39:53:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. What are we talking about here? Like traditional ice Screw with one of these?

01:39:53:18 - 01:39:57:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. If you go 21 inch. Oh, man what are the numbers?

01:39:57:02 - 01:40:05:04
Speaker 1
Numbers were impressive video for the real one. This is Rusty.

01:40:05:04 - 01:40:07:09
Speaker 2
I mean, we tested a glacier. I've just thrown.

01:40:07:09 - 01:40:09:21
Speaker 1
That out there. A big difference.

01:40:09:21 - 01:40:37:00
Speaker 2
It makes a big difference. More than you would ever put on 20. No, above eight, above above it. And so usually you'd have you could repel on that while you're up through you know, when we used a big drill the like the three foot tall gap that we you cannot break the brakes first and the rope breaks are in that 20 range.

01:40:37:04 - 01:40:38:16
Speaker 1
Because of how much ice you have. Yeah.

01:40:38:16 - 01:40:42:02
Speaker 2
You're just not going to break break that much ice with a rope. Yeah.

01:40:43:02 - 01:40:45:11
Speaker 1
So what about snowboards?

01:40:46:02 - 01:41:06:06
Speaker 2
I found the snowboards be interesting. Really dependent how we put them in. We had great, good intentions. It snowed on us. Kind of like wet snow. It was miserable, and we could like. All right, what tree are we going to pull on? What has enough snow enough to kind of. We want that. Where to test it, how to film it?

01:41:06:07 - 01:41:25:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. We ended up on this kind of a crappy hill. It wasn't that great of a test, but we got enough to make a video and it really depends on how you put them in. You put them in deep and after we're like, That's bomber thing. That's like they were really hard to break. I have a lot of numbers.

01:41:25:16 - 01:41:25:22
Speaker 2
Remember.

01:41:26:06 - 01:41:32:05
Speaker 1
I've seen some where you have to put a tarp down or something like that. Are you testing with just rope and snow rope?

01:41:32:11 - 01:41:34:03
Speaker 2
I think we put a bag in there.

01:41:34:03 - 01:41:34:11
Speaker 1
Okay.

01:41:34:15 - 01:41:50:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. And that's why it's like I do want to keep the videos down to a tick tock level if I can, but it's nice to show like this is the context, especially when it comes to something that has so much variable in it. Snow type snow, how long it's been there or any of that angle in which we pulled.

01:41:51:05 - 01:41:52:21
Speaker 2
I mean, I would trust the.

01:41:52:21 - 01:42:01:06
Speaker 1
Snow baller to do a lot wish at Max. I wish Ryan was here to test out Burgess's P and stick.

01:42:01:16 - 01:42:02:19
Speaker 2
Yeah anchor.

01:42:02:21 - 01:42:06:10
Speaker 3
That that's got to be that's next content video I think for you guys.

01:42:08:01 - 01:42:10:23
Speaker 2
And stick with on it Yeah I.

01:42:11:05 - 01:42:14:05
Speaker 1
Want to stick the stick it in the snow like a slot like the.

01:42:14:08 - 01:42:29:11
Speaker 2
Ice that appears to freeze it stays together yeah otherwise you just melted your anchor deeper. Yeah but no I mean Snickers in the glove I think was for 2 hours.

01:42:29:11 - 01:42:30:15
Speaker 3
That was wild. Yeah.

01:42:30:15 - 01:42:55:16
Speaker 2
Because Patrick has like it's Yeah, he's got a sneakers in a glove. Thing is like, the worst case scenario. I don't know. It's to be fine and or what. But of course we tested it because we want the video to be fine. People want to tell you that you never going to do. And it it ended up being a toe band in a glove because I didn't I was in there and it was like two or four calories.

01:42:55:16 - 01:42:56:16
Speaker 2
It was shocking.

01:42:57:01 - 01:43:02:06
Speaker 3
You could you could have wrapped off of it for. Yeah, you could. You wouldn't want to push it on.

01:43:02:06 - 01:43:04:01
Speaker 2
Your Snickers person. Yeah.

01:43:04:11 - 01:43:06:17
Speaker 3
But you got to eat it afterwards, though.

01:43:08:02 - 01:43:13:21
Speaker 2
So.

01:43:13:21 - 01:43:32:23
Speaker 1
All right. Question Have I random tests? This is what we asked. We had a recent conversation, Max, you and I, about the strength test of a sheet rope. Have you done a test where you've cut just the sheet out and the actual dynamic core of the centers? It's like, okay, straight test that with energy.

01:43:33:06 - 01:43:59:03
Speaker 2
So we like when we'll test in the center on a rope, they kind of fell apart. And then now you have this six foot piece that you can and then you sort string you so you kind of play with it. So we pulled the core out and tied in eight and it was really hard tying eight in both ends and pulled it the core and then the sheet that the outer protective layer is now basically an empty sock and we tied an eight and that, you know, we found it to be 6040.

01:43:59:03 - 01:44:27:08
Speaker 2
The core is about 60. The sheet that's about 40. Wow. So I would have if if, if, if if, if the core is not still rubbing in a core shot rope that you're judging, I would have no problem sending on a core shot row. But usually the problem that caused it is still causing a problem. Yeah. So yeah, the core is actually like not doing everything, but it is doing enough to be on its own.

01:44:27:08 - 01:44:27:15
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:44:28:05 - 01:44:30:11
Speaker 1
Like this static load you're hitting.

01:44:30:15 - 01:44:53:17
Speaker 2
Yes. I'm not taking whimpers on the static because that's weird. Chief. Move your sheets. Move like the thing just sliding over the core, especially when you're testing longer stuff and it's I hope to portray all these little nuances about in more of our knot videos and stuff to be like, Understand this is this the inside is the outside, this is the roles they play.

01:44:54:15 - 01:44:57:22
Speaker 1
But that's exactly the information I was looking for. 60, 40.

01:44:58:01 - 01:45:00:06
Speaker 2
60, 40. Wow number.

01:45:00:23 - 01:45:05:13
Speaker 3
That's super cool. Yeah, I would not have thought that at all. I would have thought this sheet I.

01:45:05:20 - 01:45:07:06
Speaker 2
Thought structure was everything.

01:45:07:06 - 01:45:08:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

01:45:10:03 - 01:45:37:06
Speaker 2
Oh, break testing one core strand in. You're not trying that hard, right? It's just one course. It was like your poll tested you. You have you and your friend. It it's pretty hard. You could jog on technically one core. You just can't touch anything. Yeah, yeah. Yes So for perspective and I'll answer the ice reading perspective is there's rules in climbing and it's like simplify a lot of information to teach a new person.

01:45:37:09 - 01:46:08:07
Speaker 2
You can't teach them everything. But we turned a sport and we turn a sport out of American death. Triangles on unsheathed ropes taking factor two falls on them. And it's like, So that's why Slack was so crazy because it's just the worst vector force you can do. There's no sheath and you're taking factor two's on it and it's, it's crazy the like what we learned through that sport.

01:46:08:07 - 01:46:35:04
Speaker 2
And now I bring it back over to the climbing realm and I'm like, your typical lead falls like a point five factor fall It's vanilla guys. Like even you're probably barely putting in for killing each time, depending on your type of lethal and the more rope that's out, the softer the fall we tested. So far, we're have done with the episode a three foot fall factor, one and a 12 foot fall.

01:46:35:04 - 01:46:57:23
Speaker 2
Factor one. We did six, nine, 12. They were all more or less identical in the force and and we tried to isolated the variables, right? We did it with factor two almost exactly the same as if you took a three foot rule on a on an anchor and then you take a 12 foot factor two. It's about the same.

01:46:57:23 - 01:47:21:06
Speaker 2
You can fall in your personal anchor and generate as much force as falling 200 feet because the more rope out, the more stretch it. Now we're going to go when I go to Moab, test that with £100 bag is I did £100 there because I knew I could do it out in the wild, £100 and test to see if 100 foot factor one gives us similar results or if it's wildly different.

01:47:21:06 - 01:47:22:12
Speaker 2
And I have to spend a year doing.

01:47:22:12 - 01:47:23:01
Speaker 1
This video.

01:47:24:10 - 01:47:26:10
Speaker 2
While I will ace the rabbit.

01:47:27:00 - 01:47:55:15
Speaker 3
I guess. I guess one one quick add on to that. One quick add on to that was your test with Tanner. So I think it was test five. You had the static belay with the Gregory. Right. And then the climber was 4.4 can, Belair was 2.63 and then Tanner put 7.16 Killa Newtons on an anchor. So that's about like worst case possible scenario you could imagine in that you could put out.

01:47:56:06 - 01:48:03:13
Speaker 3
But yet even all of those are totally within a realm of like normality and everything's holding in completely fine, right.

01:48:03:13 - 01:48:04:04
Speaker 1
For most games.

01:48:04:09 - 01:48:22:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. Oh my gosh. So I was breaking bolts in Nevada without cell range, and I spent more or less weeks with Tanner teaching him how to use line skill. What he did was really hard in the fact that the gym owners felt like they put in so much work and I did all the work upfront so they could do.

01:48:22:21 - 01:48:46:17
Speaker 2
But it worked out where I was out of cell range while they were doing it. And so I get this footage back and he mails me my line, Steel throws back, and and I'm reviewing the footage and I see that they bolted the Gregory to the wall. And I'm like, He stole £300. I could not believe. Like, for me, I was just wetting my pants.

01:48:46:17 - 01:49:05:05
Speaker 2
I was like, This is God. And then when he got 4.4 kilometers or £1,000 of force on his body, it's like that answered a lot of questions on how much force your body can take now to kill and agents can hurt if it happens really fast. We got five kilometers on a rope swing and it didn't hurt. So context.

01:49:05:10 - 01:49:07:13
Speaker 2
Not all the other Newtons are created equal.

01:49:07:17 - 01:49:08:00
Speaker 3
Force.

01:49:08:00 - 01:49:34:18
Speaker 2
Over. But yes, that was one of the coolest human tests that we had on the channel. And we do an on the filter page of our content on the website. You can click human testing and that's going to have all the content of where we chocolate in my body on the thing. We take rippers, rope swings where it's like this is actual forces in real life and and Tanner is probably the most interesting.

01:49:36:02 - 01:49:56:05
Speaker 2
Yeah yeah I'm glad that video got the views because it deserved to be seen. I edited it tight. I try to make it as engaging as possible. I try to tell you in the first 10 seconds what you're signing up for by watching the video try to put text on the screen so you can basically my target audience is people pooping in.

01:49:56:05 - 01:50:03:14
Speaker 2
My goal is to make your legs hurt. So I want you to just be we want 2 minutes of entertainment and I want to keep you on there for 20 minutes.

01:50:03:20 - 01:50:05:01
Speaker 1
To be asleep when you stand up.

01:50:05:01 - 01:50:10:13
Speaker 2
Yes. So that's that's how I edited that video.

01:50:10:13 - 01:50:17:13
Speaker 3
Yeah. Super cool. For for anyone listening, If you haven't, go check out that video. It is really, really awesome and just gives a really good breakdown of.

01:50:17:22 - 01:50:24:14
Speaker 2
What type title might be £290 climber whips or falls for science or.

01:50:24:14 - 01:50:28:17
Speaker 3
Yeah, that was for false. For science. Yeah. Yeah.

01:50:28:17 - 01:50:44:12
Speaker 2
And people, people, people, people keep, people keep saying before they'll jump off a cliff or do something sketchy because we're like they'll say for so many roads for science and just like I need a bigger purpose to do something stupid.

01:50:45:00 - 01:50:48:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, exactly. Make me feel good about my choices.

01:50:48:01 - 01:51:18:11
Speaker 2
I certainly do. Before I took my first trip on my drop tower a few weeks ago, I finally made it. Sounds like I feel confident enough to take a whipper on this because we did, I think the monkey test video or then textiles. And we didn't get context that anything about a kill a new bomber and then you get 450,000 views and you have a lot of non climbers and non experienced climbers watching, you know, like, oh, I need to like try to cover 80 Z, which is hard in a short video.

01:51:19:12 - 01:51:27:05
Speaker 2
But now I took a whip or on TV we tested UFO's you know those are the textile wedges that they use in the republic.

01:51:27:19 - 01:51:28:08
Speaker 3
Oh yeah.

01:51:28:09 - 01:51:47:11
Speaker 2
So yeah, so we tested UFO's and my first looper was on a UFO on the drop tower because I wanted to set a premise for like I put on this tower in this thing I'm putting on for and this is how he's being played. So if we get in, we're not going to drop test in the way we're blamey.

01:51:47:11 - 01:52:15:21
Speaker 2
We need it to break through. He needs a really fat rope that doesn't really stretch. And we're going drop £300 on these things because I want them to fail. Yeah, but at you know, if we're getting above this number and you're £160, like it's probably good enough. Yeah. And so we set a baseline, we set the thing, we, we went to an extreme and, and I think that's better storytelling because that's how people are going to learn is through better and better storytelling.

01:52:17:14 - 01:52:32:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, that video was awesome. I loved how you had the I forget her name, the lady who started out by kind of like narrating Jenny. She was great. That was great. Like cutting back and forth between her, talking about the whole sport and how they use the gear. And you're like, Drop it.

01:52:33:00 - 01:52:58:20
Speaker 2
It's nice. It's nice. You change scenery all the time. That's a very Mr. Beast thing to do. And I don't always get to do that if it's just, you know, me and Bobby breaking something or doing a row like, but when I'm doing a alpine butterfly for six months because, well, my workflow is awful and I'm at a peak, I'm like, Hey babe, we should generate this thing while I'm here.

01:52:59:15 - 01:53:17:01
Speaker 2
And then I went back to the lab and broke a few more things. And then I was with John, who had more insight, and then Andrea in there and Bobby had thoughts and it's like, Wow, this video is really complete. This is not practical to do every video like that. But oh, some videos like that I called Gold Skull.

01:53:17:07 - 01:53:17:19
Speaker 1
You got to have these.

01:53:17:19 - 01:53:28:14
Speaker 2
You're like, I know this is a popular this has got to be good. And it kills me when they only get like 30,000 views. Yeah. If the non gold is getting a half a million.

01:53:28:14 - 01:53:35:15
Speaker 1
Sometimes that's the way it goes. And I always just see it as a statement of society and that they need to get up and catch it.

01:53:36:07 - 01:53:41:01
Speaker 2
And the algorithm is a non thinking robot. It is responding to people's reaction.

01:53:41:02 - 01:53:42:16
Speaker 1
It's, it's, it's a reflection of us.

01:53:43:04 - 01:53:46:18
Speaker 2
It is a reflection on my thumbnail skills I think.

01:53:46:18 - 01:54:05:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, everyone behaves like the algorithm stuff. And I just think it's that it's just a mirror to society and just like it's reacting to us. It's, it is, it's rejected us. I don't think it's just like feeding us like certain things. I think it's just dependent on how we react to, what we're seeing, and it's learning depending on how we react.

01:54:05:15 - 01:54:12:16
Speaker 1
And sadly right now everybody likes 15 second videos of mostly garbage.

01:54:12:16 - 01:54:34:03
Speaker 2
I try I try to do the Instagram thing and I'm meeting with how to tell the holes enough of the whole story too. There were people like, Get something out of it. I put the Alpine Butterfly slipping and it basically goes from a not to nothing, but it's a stretchy rope, so I have to show off. I'm only going to show seconds, which is way too long on Instagram.

01:54:34:21 - 01:54:57:00
Speaker 2
I have to show it almost almost broken and then it poof, it's just a straight rope. Coolest magic trick ever. You're like, That wasn't an alpine butterfly. I'm like, It was. It was honestly, 15 seconds ago. But you're pooping and you want to all of that. Yeah. I need to work for this tough stuff.

01:54:58:17 - 01:55:00:12
Speaker 1
It's tough. Max, you.

01:55:00:12 - 01:55:00:22
Speaker 2
Are.

01:55:02:04 - 01:55:07:05
Speaker 1
You caught jumping into kind of the future and some of this. Yeah. Trailer stuff.

01:55:07:11 - 01:55:08:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, I.

01:55:08:14 - 01:55:12:02
Speaker 3
I'm totally cool, man. Yeah, I think it's good.

01:55:12:02 - 01:55:18:23
Speaker 1
All right, so you were saying you've got a new house, a new lab, and some new tools. Yeah, a little context.

01:55:18:23 - 01:55:40:03
Speaker 2
Right now, as I live in a 680 square foot apartment in Redmond, Washington, and I drive or fly down to the lab once every six weeks, once every three months, and I work all day, every day breaking stuff, because that's where my lab was, because I used to live in California. I won the girlfriend lottery and I went up to Washington to redeem my prize.

01:55:40:03 - 01:56:07:06
Speaker 2
And I don't need to be in the lab every day to make content every Wednesday. Let's just put that caveat out there. I don't need to do that to meet that metric, but I'm finding that editing videos for 16 hours a day because I work from second, I wake up, the second I go to bed nonstop. I'm not do all day on the laptop or all day on my feet in the lab is not fun.

01:56:07:17 - 01:56:26:19
Speaker 2
Neither one is fun. And so I was thinking like, what if I move this back into my house? Originally it was in my garage and I thought houses would crash. So I sold the house. I wanted to close my painting business. I wanted to be flexible. And so I had my mid-life crisis four years too early and I sold everything.

01:56:26:19 - 01:56:49:14
Speaker 2
And that's what allowed me to be flexible to meet Andrea. And I ended up working better than it should have because now I'm renting a nice house with her to where we split the rent her me and how not to how not to pay rent in California and for me to have a lab space and a studio. And then I already pay like 1400 bucks a month and she pays that.

01:56:49:14 - 01:57:18:03
Speaker 2
And it's like, what if we combine all this and rent a house that's like, you know, we can invite people over? Because I used to have a lot of people over before COVID, and then COVID was perfect because I hated people after I had 100 people through my office. So the timing was perfect. But now I want I want have like, like big names, smart people, experts, other YouTubers come to the house and like, where we break deer.

01:57:18:03 - 01:57:50:15
Speaker 2
The problem is it's too hot, too cold. The air compressor goes off, the dogs bark like I get interrupted. It's it dust the disk in the field next to us and we're breathing in that crap. And it's so hard to make contact productively in a in a back of a shop somewhere. So now I'm going to have a temperature controlled 63,000 lumens just over the accent machine soundproof stuff that would make a podcasters dream.

01:57:51:05 - 01:58:16:05
Speaker 2
I'm going to literally everything's going to be foam and rope and carpet. So I do not have to have mikes and I can with phones. And it's going to be comfortable and fun and I'm going to have a new slacks, that machine. And that's why I'm here in Nevada breaking or building this thing. And Steve made a lot of the art you see is a lot I slack out a lot of the figurines out of bolts.

01:58:16:14 - 01:58:38:18
Speaker 2
Steve's like the guy behind the scenes is making that stuff and he's now helping me make this. And I designed a honeycomb back frame. So all the gear is like the dino, the hydraulics, all this embedded in the frame, and it's only 12 feet seven inches long, which means in any decent sized bedroom, this machine could go with me.

01:58:39:04 - 01:59:01:17
Speaker 2
I designed it before I found the perfect house. It has 16 foot wide room by 21 feet long. Which means now I can have, like a table, two work chairs, maybe start a podcast. People over. We break at least one or two episodes a day worth of like, help world learn stuff, and then after dinner break, whatever you want, cameras off, let's just have fun is that's also a nice thing.

01:59:02:15 - 01:59:20:07
Speaker 2
But I can make literally ten x the content. That doesn't mean it's going to all end up on the how not to main channel. Only the cream and the gold is going to end up on that channel I have already. How not to eclipse which is just like I don't know what to do with this. It's got to be on the internet in the website.

01:59:20:07 - 01:59:39:01
Speaker 2
I point to it. It's like in the balding Bible, it's like, go to this link. It's it's a live video. You go to this video. This is where this rabbit can be chased when I have ten rabbits all by themselves would not make a meal. I put it together and it's gold episode and we're like, we're going to this is me confirming a concept.

01:59:39:15 - 02:00:05:20
Speaker 2
Some of your questions cannot be answered in one break test video, but I could summarize ten of them that specifically answer the question. And so now I'm going to have the best people, the best content, and I can break carabiners in my socks in the first episode I film and there is going to be without my pants on just to emphasize the convenience level of having happiness literally in the family room, more or less.

02:00:06:18 - 02:00:39:17
Speaker 2
It's like it's game changing to have a machine that has dual chamber as strong hydraulic in the long hydraulic because things stretch. They're never strong in the stuff that strong. I don't. So I'm using all the same guts. This whole machines cost me maybe two grand. That's breaking my lease. The apartment cost me more, and then I'm spending almost no more money living in this beautiful house with a backyard that I need to leave big because I'm going to do things in this backyard that are going to look like they're in the middle of nowhere.

02:00:39:22 - 02:01:05:03
Speaker 2
And I don't want anybody to know that I might be renting from. So and it's just just like I. I was painting houses. I was frustrated. I shut painting business down where you're making like 200 grand a year is really kind of a big step to go to a channel that almost pays for the expenses to run the channel.

02:01:05:10 - 02:01:25:11
Speaker 2
But I have a cushion, right? I have a cushion of savings that I can like do this. I figure 2 to 5 years. And if I just cannot figure out the sweet spot between helping companies see the marketing potential without making commercials. Sorry, Epic TV, they they're just a bunch of commercials. The meat's not there. I don't want to do that.

02:01:25:17 - 02:01:53:04
Speaker 2
I want I want. When you watch a seven part alleged video, you understand the part alleged you don't have gear for around it. And you know, if it's right for your types of projects. Same with the cans. I want to show the love slipping apples for apples. Which ones hold a slightly knurled metal, but I want them to all slip to show how they're the shape performs.

02:01:53:04 - 02:02:15:08
Speaker 2
I want to demonstrate these things. That's why the whole thing with extreme gear is nice. John just lets me do whatever I kind of want in if I can, for every product give you an answer to how that product works in for every general question you've ever had, ever is found on the website through. The filter thing. I spent six months this year building and I did not.

02:02:15:14 - 02:02:25:19
Speaker 2
I did not even know how to spell taxonomy. And now I've like learned how to organize the next 10,000 things I do. Wow.

02:02:26:21 - 02:02:29:11
Speaker 1
It's exciting. I'm stoked.

02:02:29:18 - 02:02:33:10
Speaker 2
Friday so you can tell I made it past my five year slump. And so.

02:02:34:01 - 02:02:36:15
Speaker 1
Ten years. Yeah. You got the tires.

02:02:37:09 - 02:02:46:10
Speaker 2
Ready to go? Yeah. I want to answer every question anybody's ever had. Yeah. We shouldn't have questions about gear. We trust our life too.

02:02:46:16 - 02:02:51:13
Speaker 1
There are lots of questions and dark holes about what these and can't do. It's very true.

02:02:51:13 - 02:03:15:21
Speaker 2
I have over 100 bolts, by the way. Bolts are very hard to break. There's a very tiny 100 bolts that I've broken, that I've not published because I make content faster than I can put it out, because I feel like every video has to be gold. And when I get past that perfectionism and I have channel where I'm just dumping stuff, no thumbnails, just clear titles, no fancy.

02:03:16:05 - 02:03:29:03
Speaker 2
You won't believe what this glue and bolt broke at. No, it's rather glue and bolts tested in granite. Yep. Boom. If you like it. Great is not the summary.

02:03:29:03 - 02:03:29:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.

02:03:29:10 - 02:03:43:21
Speaker 2
Next one. I do not have enough of those that are good. How glue and bolts break boom. And we did this, this, this, this. I can show you 50 bolts all slow motion 100% is going to be sexy in it. That will be clickbait. Yeah.

02:03:45:00 - 02:03:48:21
Speaker 3
Do you ever give any intent on testing fixed blades.

02:03:50:13 - 02:03:51:15
Speaker 2
Fixed point blades.

02:03:52:05 - 02:04:12:11
Speaker 3
You didn't know you were that? Yeah. So in the industry, I think it's changing a lot to this where you essentially like you'll have like whether it could be two bolts or two ice screws or you can have a triad anchor that's equalize. I can take a four can direction of pull upwards and you just have like essentially like a bowl and like double bowl.

02:04:12:11 - 02:04:40:04
Speaker 3
And so it's a redundant loop and then you literally just put in Etsy and you pull a or sorry, not an Etsy, just a carabiner with a center and you just blow off the straight off of the master point. And then there's a dynamic property to the actual cord slipping through. So it's like, you know, when they had Tanner's test, instead of having a Gregory bolted to the wall, you could have had a master point and then the carabiner blade off with a monitor.

02:04:40:08 - 02:04:44:17
Speaker 3
And then that way there would have been rope slippage to see how much the force reduces.

02:04:46:02 - 02:05:12:05
Speaker 2
So I want to take another ripper on is static rope, which, by the way, in case you don't know, do not do that. But I want to basically perfect what you're talking about. You talk about how you could belay and you don't start with a big whip right? You start with like a static rope with £50, eight year old girl behind you.

02:05:12:06 - 02:05:38:13
Speaker 2
Right. Because she is going to absorb the father. You guys work your way up. What possible? I took a 20 foot fall in a micro traction just to see if I could throw with the backup. But we worked our way up to that. But yes, I want to explore different actual techniques to Blaine to see if you can what happens, what you can get away with, because you might find yourself in a pickle where you would want what you're talking about.

02:05:40:12 - 02:05:41:06
Speaker 3
For a dozen.

02:05:41:06 - 02:05:41:16
Speaker 1
Reasons.

02:05:42:06 - 02:05:43:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, every question, man.

02:05:43:23 - 02:05:52:11
Speaker 1
Every question. What are some what are some big upcoming topics that you're you're planning on covering that haven't been released yet.

02:05:52:21 - 02:06:10:18
Speaker 2
So we have threads that I haven't released yet. Don't know if this will come out before after, but the threads is a really good one. I'm experimenting with short form on YouTube. It's a two minute video that I respond to a TikTok video or something where somebody did something and then I actually test it.

02:06:12:07 - 02:06:12:21
Speaker 3
And that's a good one.

02:06:12:22 - 02:06:23:21
Speaker 2
I have. It's entertaining. I like to throw those out every once in a while. It's not always serious. And I got I got so many I I've always 50 videos in the bank.

02:06:24:04 - 02:06:25:07
Speaker 1
Your content machine.

02:06:26:03 - 02:06:46:07
Speaker 2
We have an ice climbing course coming out when I was in Iceland I have four guides with me and I was like in just an intro to a client. So if you've never ice climb before, different crampons, how they work, what do is hosed down, up and this and that. And you're not, you're not, you're not climbing normal in an ice climbing scenario.

02:06:47:04 - 02:06:53:01
Speaker 2
It's nice to know that. So when you go in, actually pay a guide or you get to go with your friend, you're not burning up time.

02:06:53:01 - 02:06:53:16
Speaker 1
You started from.

02:06:53:16 - 02:07:17:02
Speaker 2
Ground zero and you could do it in like if you watch and one and a half speed in like 2 hours, you go through the whole thing. It's free. It's just fine to put that out as a baseline so we can build off of that and break more stuff. But the bolts is, I have all those bolts I've broken in limestone and sandstone I've never released, but I have to.

02:07:17:02 - 02:07:36:09
Speaker 2
Not everybody's in the box, so I have to like I just spent three weeks at the lab. We tested factor one balls. Are they all the same? Where fall the same distance as the rope you have out, right? You have ten feet to help out you felt and deep. We've tested out all sorts of personal anchors.

02:07:39:16 - 02:07:45:00
Speaker 1
And you're you're going out to Moab now to complete the actor one or two fall tests.

02:07:45:06 - 02:08:02:15
Speaker 2
I'm just going to squeeze that while rigging the biggest net in the world. So we're taking the biggest out of world. And minus that technically, depending how you define it. Also the biggest net of the world's. And so Andy Lewis and I like to have Dick measuring conscious of how our Nets are. You know, we're putting them together this year.

02:08:02:16 - 02:08:25:14
Speaker 2
Okay? And I think they're like triple stacked. We think is another net. But then I might put one vertical and do some cool stuff to where you can climb it and then like land on the sea. But yeah, so I'm basically going to spend a week building this before the big cyclone festival Y, Okay. And while I'm there, I try to film what I can break test.

02:08:25:14 - 02:08:33:15
Speaker 2
I dropped a rocky top 100 meters off the cliff last time I was there and ran it over because, like, admirable is it? The first one broke second we did it.

02:08:34:02 - 02:08:35:18
Speaker 1
So the first test broke.

02:08:35:18 - 02:08:53:22
Speaker 2
Versus first it broke off because it landed really bad. The second one survived and then I ran it over with my car and it survived. But then I tested range down in the farm, not even a mile, man. And then I talked to the owners. I was like, not sure how to make a video. Like the range kind of sucked.

02:08:54:01 - 02:09:13:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. Like, oh, the explaining that goes over the person. It goes out into Space Mountain to make it bounce. And I'm learning how radios work in the frequencies. I can get two channels to talk to each other. Two different channels is I learn how the microphone changes are. Just like you can learn how to never hear other people.

02:09:13:23 - 02:09:20:13
Speaker 2
Because when I was on Elk Camp, I had to change it three or four times a day because everyone's using Channel 128. This is what it comes on.

02:09:21:11 - 02:09:28:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's funny, we actually were we thought we were my buddy and this is years ago. We thought we were unique by choosing Channel 420 and.

02:09:31:01 - 02:09:35:08
Speaker 2
69 is why it's not Channel 69. It's exactly like.

02:09:35:13 - 02:09:40:06
Speaker 1
I was too busy fucking traffic channel. It was like an idea.

02:09:40:06 - 02:10:00:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it's it's like my projects especially really depend on that. Rocky working battery test has lasted five days long, as test have done, because every 3 hours I was checking it but it's good to know when it hit 30%, which took four and a half days. 3 hours later I checked it was done well and it's good, you know, that's how bad you can interpret with the battery.

02:10:00:13 - 02:10:05:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, I own them. I use them for most of my video work, working with clients, subjects and stuff.

02:10:06:12 - 02:10:34:23
Speaker 2
I'm trying to make what the customer wants or the audience wants, what I want to make, or at least my friends want to make, and then what maybe companies want me to make and how I can meet that in the middle in thoroughly testing gear. Thoroughly, I think is the sweet spot there. It's not. It's like I get a 10% kickback if you use the link, but Like I also just want, you know, how Rockies work because I don't want this to be a bunch of bullshit commercials.

02:10:35:04 - 02:10:44:19
Speaker 2
I really do want to just break shit. You buy like a concept I can't sell Sliding Ex when I'm done. Yeah.

02:10:46:11 - 02:10:50:04
Speaker 1
So nice. Max. Anything else.

02:10:50:12 - 02:10:56:06
Speaker 3
Man? I think that's. That's everything on my end. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. I don't know about you.

02:10:56:15 - 02:10:58:21
Speaker 1
That's it. That's all I got. Yeah, I would say.

02:10:59:08 - 02:11:23:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think any chance, like, can help the audience be a great audience is helpful. I think anybody who's engaged to be a great audience would be constructive criticism. Great. Always know like context. If you don't understand the full context, sometimes advice actually be unhelpful because I'll take it serious, pursue the advice and find out like it hosts me for six months.

02:11:24:08 - 02:11:43:04
Speaker 2
Any time I've talked about doing a project and you see six months later I'm barely getting it done is because I got basically bad advice. So if you give advice, make sure it's good advice or in the context in which that makes sense for you. My break test machine might look weird to people, but I'm like, I got to reuse all the guts.

02:11:43:04 - 02:12:00:06
Speaker 2
I said, No money that would cost so much money. And so context like it's really dumb, but if you watch all the videos and don't subscribe, it's I don't make money when you subscribe, but I get to go to Black Diamond's lab. When you're over 100,000 subscribers.

02:12:00:17 - 02:12:02:00
Speaker 1
That's the cut off.

02:12:02:05 - 02:12:30:15
Speaker 2
No, it's just like companies don't understand that 10,000 subscriber channel has sometimes more of a of an influence than than a 500,000 subscriber channel because they're doing more clickbait stuff, right. Or algorithms. But yeah, if you're listening to the podcast, you guys have like buttons and stuff, like you're feeding the algorithm information to tell it when you click the like, but it shares it to ten more people.

02:12:30:15 - 02:12:59:06
Speaker 2
My click through rates around 6%, so they show it to a hundred people. I'll get six more people to watch it. And if you don't think that I'm thoroughly testing or telling the story or sensationalizing it right, they'll watch my videos from 2016 and see how I'm improving. Go listen to their first podcast and see how they're improving Yeah, we're we know the flaws of our videos probably more than the audience in remember, I can't know more than 30,000 people.

02:12:59:14 - 02:13:17:16
Speaker 2
So if I do or not, like I can't know more. I can know more than one person, but not 30,000 people. So Grace is is a very helpful and positive comments a long way. What's your guys you guys have a support thing, like a patron thing or. No, not.

02:13:17:16 - 02:13:32:22
Speaker 1
Yet. We have not crossed into any sort of yet. We're waiting for the right moment. Right now. We're just trying to polish our product and really dial in kind of who we are, what our messages are, what doing here, because that's not really what it's about yet.

02:13:33:05 - 02:13:40:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's not why you did it now. Exactly. But it's some day. At some point it costs money to run something. Yeah.

02:13:40:18 - 02:13:56:06
Speaker 3
The goal would be to be able to do this as a as a, you know, as a business, be able to do this and provide better content and keep doing that like, like anything. Right. Like you need support. You need the people to come out and to be interested. And if you're providing a valuable product like you want to interact with people and you want to keep doing that.

02:13:56:11 - 02:14:03:22
Speaker 3
But the world also like exists, runs on money. You know, you you need to be able to provide for yourself, to be able to provide a better product for people.

02:14:04:19 - 02:14:31:05
Speaker 2
It's a good thought experiment is think about how much money blond dear or the gas to go climbing of 2025 bucks month is typically. I know there's a lot of subscription systems out there like like if you have enough TV shows, you can spend $50 Netflix and Hulu and all those things, right? But you talk even just $25 and spread that across your five people.

02:14:31:05 - 02:15:09:14
Speaker 2
Creators like I don't think people realize how much a dollar changes my life is like it little differences make a huge or little little amounts make a huge difference when a thousand people do it is If I knew I got $1,000 per episode, I don't hesitate to buy totems to break them. I don't hesitate to. I'm I've got hundreds of dollars tomorrow and just the hydraulic adapters for my houses because I know people have supported I'm about 500 and something patrons now with a donate one or sometimes even $2 per episode.

02:15:10:00 - 02:15:37:20
Speaker 2
That literally is why I moving to a house. It's not ad revenue. So if it if money is tight, don't donate. Like don't put yourself don't use a credit card that you can't pay off. Don't donate if you don't have money, but then share the videos and share the stuff with people. So like that helps as much as like a dollar and the like and the algorithm stuff.

02:15:37:20 - 02:15:56:21
Speaker 2
So like it gets shared and it grows. So yeah, you guys, the audience is the only reason we're sitting in a room right now talking about this. If you don't exist, this doesn't exist if you don't get engaged in common. And so it doesn't I don't do this for other.

02:15:56:21 - 02:15:59:16
Speaker 1
Any other reason. If you just have a conversation with the spirit.

02:15:59:21 - 02:16:11:12
Speaker 2
We could have sat on the couch it was a little bit more comfortable and just talk about this. So so it's like be a great audience and more cool stuff for you to consume is going to be out there.

02:16:12:10 - 02:16:13:14
Speaker 1
It's awesome. Yeah.

02:16:14:04 - 02:16:16:23
Speaker 2
I love doing this and if you love watching it.

02:16:17:05 - 02:16:23:10
Speaker 1
Keep it going like these. So I can share.

02:16:23:19 - 02:16:47:16
Speaker 2
Describe like it's pretty annoying actually. Say that every video but and literally often I don't think about it when I don't I absolutely see you have to be reminded that I watch YouTube like hours a day and when somebody says in in a clever way, in a non soliciting way, I'm like, Oh yeah, you know what's good? Sorry, I'll go back and I'll feel bad an hour later and be like, Oh my God, that video was great.

02:16:47:16 - 02:16:54:13
Speaker 2
I should go at least like, Yeah, but now I appreciate you guys in doing this podcast and.

02:16:54:20 - 02:16:59:16
Speaker 1
Yes, happy to have you on. It was awesome that we were able to cross paths. Yeah. Yeah. Busy guy.

02:17:00:00 - 02:17:15:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. Personally, for myself, I'm actually a huge fan, You know, I've been watching your videos for a couple of years now and yeah, it's just been a blast talking to you. And actually you know, I wish I was there in person with you, but, you know, virtual studio is as good as I'm going to get. And I really appreciate your time.

02:17:15:02 - 02:17:16:23
Speaker 3
And it's a it's been a blast talking with you.

02:17:16:23 - 02:17:42:06
Speaker 2
Ryan Yeah It's fun. It's fun meeting you guys. It's fun engaging and talking about the stuff because I talk about it all day. I love this stuff. Yeah, but I think an even five more years of this, I think people are going to walk around with a lot more useful, accurate information and that will spread to the next generation of climbers and having the information available and easily accessible.

02:17:42:06 - 02:17:47:04
Speaker 1
It's worth it. Cool thing about the Internet is it'll it'll stick around forever.

02:17:47:09 - 02:18:05:08
Speaker 2
Stick around beat out now that's the goal.