As a relatively larger climber, sitting around 200lbs and having gone through recent traumatic injuries… my weight… and my positivity around my own body image have fluctuated a lot. As fellow climbers, I am sure you know the struggle of trying to juggle performance, health, weight gain…or weight loss. In today’s conversation, we discuss a topic that so many of us struggle with. It's the foundation of our energy, our happiness. Basically our entire lives…..I'm talking about nutrition.
In this episode, we sit down with Caitlin Holmes. Caitlin is a board-certified Nutrition Specialist who received her Masters of Science in Human Nutrition & Functional Medicine from the University of Western States. After her graduation, she started her nutrition coaching business, Caitlin Holmes Nutrition, where she primarily works with climbers and outdoor enthusiasts to develop effective nutrition plans for long-term health and performance. Her passion and knowledge of nutrition are palpable.
Caitlin, like so many of us, has had her struggles and successes in the sport of climbing. She’s experienced injuries, body issues, and performance plateaus. Caitlin is a great boulderer and sport climber and she’s even climbed some v9s… which is an amazing accomplishment. In our conversation, we talk about the failure of the modern medical system, micro and macronutrients, how to fuel for climbing, our bodie’s energy systems, and much more. This episode is an awesome deep dive into what fuels our bodies and minds to do the activities that we love. Eat well, climb hard, and have fun. Enjoy the show.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
As a relatively larger climber, sitting around 200lbs and having gone through recent traumatic injuries… my weight… and my positivity around my own body image have fluctuated a lot. As fellow climbers, I am sure you know the struggle of trying to juggle performance, health, weight gain…or weight loss. In today’s conversation, we discuss a topic that so many of us struggle with. It's the foundation of our energy, our happiness. Basically our entire lives…..I'm talking about nutrition.
In this episode, we sit down with Caitlin Holmes. Caitlin is a board-certified Nutrition Specialist who received her Masters of Science in Human Nutrition & Functional Medicine from the University of Western States. After her graduation, she started her nutrition coaching business, Caitlin Holmes Nutrition, where she primarily works with climbers and outdoor enthusiasts to develop effective nutrition plans for long-term health and performance. Her passion and knowledge of nutrition are palpable.
Caitlin, like so many of us, has had her struggles and successes in the sport of climbing. She’s experienced injuries, body issues, and performance plateaus. Caitlin is a great boulderer and sport climber and she’s even climbed some v9s… which is an amazing accomplishment. In our conversation, we talk about the failure of the modern medical system, micro and macronutrients, how to fuel for climbing, our bodie’s energy systems, and much more. This episode is an awesome deep dive into what fuels our bodies and minds to do the activities that we love. Eat well, climb hard, and have fun. Enjoy the show.
Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.
Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com
Resources:
00:00:00:12 - 00:00:23:19
Speaker 1
Hey everyone and welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast for Colin. I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides to recreational climbers like discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:26:11 - 00:00:49:02
Speaker 1
Hey everyone. Max here. Just want to take a second to acknowledge the winner of our giveaway, Leah Walker. Lee has been a supporter of the show and she participated in our contest. She won a copy of The Rock Warrior's Way and some mine tools to sharpen her mental game. Thanks for helping promote the show, Leah to learn more about upcoming promotions, our episodes do engage with Tyler and I check us out on social media.
00:00:49:08 - 00:00:53:23
Speaker 1
We are at the dot climbing dot majority.
00:00:56:11 - 00:01:21:18
Speaker 1
Alright, let's dove into today's episode. As a relatively large climber sitting around £200 and having gone through some recent traumatic injuries, my weight and my positivity around my own body image have fluctuated a lot. As fellow climbers, I'm sure you know the struggle trying to juggle performance, health, weight gain or weight loss. In today's conversation, we discuss a topic that so many of us can struggle with.
00:01:22:04 - 00:01:54:19
Speaker 1
It's the foundation of our energy, our happiness, basically our entire lives. I'm talking about nutrition. In this episode, we sit down with Caitlyn Holmes. Caitlyn is a board certified nutrition specialist who received her master's of science in Human Nutrition and functional medicine from the University of Western States. After her graduation, she started her nutrition coaching business. Caitlyn Holmes Nutrition, where she primarily works with climbers and outdoor enthusiasts to develop effective nutrition plans for long term health and performance.
00:01:55:08 - 00:02:23:14
Speaker 1
Her passion and knowledge of nutrition are palpable. Caitlyn, like so many of us, has had her struggles and successes in the sport of climbing. She's experienced injuries, body issues and performance plateaus. She's a great boulder and sport climber, and she's even clients of V9, which is pretty amazing. In our conversation, we talk about the failure of the modern medical system micro and macronutrients, how to fuel for climbing our bodies, energy systems, and much more.
00:02:24:08 - 00:02:42:22
Speaker 1
This episode is an awesome, deep dove into what fuels our bodies and minds to do the activities that we love, eat well, climb hard and have fun, enjoy the show.
00:02:47:08 - 00:02:49:23
Speaker 1
Nope. CAITLYN Hello. How's it going? How are you doing?
00:02:50:05 - 00:03:04:00
Speaker 2
Oh, I'm doing great. And I'm just. It's Wednesday. I mean, at the time this is recorded, so we're almost halfway through the week. I don't know. It's just. Even if I'm. I don't have anything going on this weekend, I'm just like, that sounds nice.
00:03:05:05 - 00:03:07:08
Speaker 1
Do you normally do, like, a monday to Friday?
00:03:07:12 - 00:03:28:18
Speaker 2
Typically, yeah. And then, you know, Saturday, Sunday, the classic weekend, get to get out and do some different things. But it's been weirdly busy lately, so I feel like it's been more so than that. So, you know. Sweet. Yeah. This is good. This is good. Yeah. How about you both doing well?
00:03:29:05 - 00:03:47:17
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, yeah. No complaints on my end. I'm. I'm getting ready for this kind of rad trip we're doing where you go to the Cascades for seven days. And so I was packing and doing food prep and getting all the gear ready. Nice. Finalizing some things on our on our on our plans. There's been a few unexpected things.
00:03:47:18 - 00:03:50:03
Speaker 1
One of the routes we were going to climb, the roads washed out.
00:03:50:03 - 00:03:50:22
Speaker 2
Oh, no.
00:03:51:00 - 00:04:01:04
Speaker 1
Kind of doing. It's okay. There's a million things we have to do, so we've got some really good work arounds and stuff. But yeah, that's kind of that's kind of been that and and then just the regular things in life.
00:04:01:09 - 00:04:03:06
Speaker 2
Yeah, very cool.
00:04:03:15 - 00:04:21:10
Speaker 1
Yeah. I was going to go on a trip with them to do Rainier, but I went up to the Hulk down here in California. It's like a five mile approach in and my my ankle just it wasn't wasn't let me go much further after I got back to the car. So I'm going to have to have to call off the trip until until later.
00:04:21:10 - 00:04:22:10
Speaker 1
But we'll see how it goes.
00:04:22:18 - 00:04:29:22
Speaker 2
Little bummed, but got a list. Got to take time for you. Yeah. Listening to your body ski, right? Yeah. I'm going to.
00:04:30:04 - 00:04:35:00
Speaker 1
Reach out to my surgeon. I'm probably gonna get the hardware taken out pretty soon because I think that's, like, 60% of my problem.
00:04:35:23 - 00:04:41:01
Speaker 2
Oh, is that what they say is typical to just remove it and see how you do? Or.
00:04:41:12 - 00:05:05:08
Speaker 1
I mean, everybody says, like, leave it in unless it's bothering you, but it's hard to tell, like what is and what's not bothering me in terms of it's like in relation to the hardware itself. But I've got 14 screws and a plate just in my calcaneus bone. So, so to think that that's not affecting my mobility and the pain that I'm having and just seems, I don't know, doesn't seem realistic.
00:05:05:10 - 00:05:14:13
Speaker 1
There's got to be some sort of pressure and like stuff that are tied up, you know, and scar tissue to the material itself. So I'm just going to go for it and hope for the best.
00:05:15:09 - 00:05:25:16
Speaker 2
Fingers crossed. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Stuff in your ankle, your body's maybe like. No. Yeah. So, yeah, I think a lot of.
00:05:25:16 - 00:05:31:06
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think a lot of the tendons are like stuck to it almost because it's such a convoluted area down there.
00:05:32:04 - 00:05:47:09
Speaker 2
So I'm really fortunate I didn't have to get surgery on my ankle because I've just heard similar stories and people say, Oh yeah, I had to get surgery. And it's just bothered me since then. And isn't there something better for that?
00:05:49:04 - 00:05:51:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Not getting broken in the first place probably.
00:05:51:15 - 00:05:53:20
Speaker 2
Oh yeah. One time.
00:05:54:06 - 00:05:57:14
Speaker 1
That's, that's probably a good way to do it is to just not give.
00:05:58:04 - 00:06:00:09
Speaker 2
Yourself way to completely total.
00:06:00:20 - 00:06:04:05
Speaker 1
Unfortunately, such is the nature of the things we love.
00:06:04:05 - 00:06:06:22
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So it goes. Yeah.
00:06:06:22 - 00:06:28:13
Speaker 1
Well, sweet, awesome. I know. You know, speaking for myself, I'm super stoked to have you here and really excited to have this conversation with you today. Generally, you know, for our conversations, we kind of just like our guests to do a little bit of an introduction of who they are. And, you know, even just start off a little bit of early life and get a bit of a chronology going there.
00:06:29:08 - 00:06:33:09
Speaker 1
I find it's just really nice and good for the viewers and even even for me, you know?
00:06:33:10 - 00:06:33:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00:06:33:20 - 00:06:37:06
Speaker 1
Learning and and get to know some things, so for sure.
00:06:37:06 - 00:07:08:12
Speaker 2
Absolutely. I really appreciate you finding me reaching out and and having me on the podcast as well and truly excited to just chat with you both today and share some more information and and yeah so I'm Kaitlin homes I am a board certified nutrition specialist and I have a master's degree in human nutrition and functional medicine. So I primarily work with climbers, athletes, outdoor enthusiasts because that is also who I am.
00:07:08:12 - 00:07:35:03
Speaker 2
So I find that I know that community, this community better than I might otherwise. And I just I feel like there's a lot of generalist topics within that realm. You know, you could be a climber, but you might have gut concerns or mental health concerns. Maybe you have some blood sugar imbalances. So there's just a lot of variety in this different, you know, in this area, even though we all love the same sport.
00:07:35:03 - 00:07:46:03
Speaker 2
So that makes it very exciting. So yeah, there's a lot of slopes there. Like, where do I start my story? Yeah. Like, where.
00:07:46:12 - 00:07:53:07
Speaker 1
Were you active as a kid? Like, did you go into sports like where your family kind of focused on kind of outdoor activities?
00:07:53:07 - 00:08:22:00
Speaker 2
So I did grow up camping a lot, but that was probably the extent because I was in a pre-professional ballet company growing up. That was, I would say, the majority of where I spent my childhood. I didn't really get into sports until long after I, I quit, I should say team sports, because ballet is a sport. But I didn't really get into that until I had an injury that actually led me to quit ballet.
00:08:22:00 - 00:08:46:18
Speaker 2
So I that's where I was most of the time. I was either at school or at the ballet studio. And then when I, I actually had an ankle injury that I did have surgery on, not a broken ankle, but torn. I had a completely torn ligament that I had surgery for. Otherwise we said I wouldn't dance on pointe shoes anymore.
00:08:46:18 - 00:09:17:12
Speaker 2
And wow, funny part was when I came back, I quit two months later. So which look way goes? Oh, I couldn't tell you. Now I'd have to look back. I've actually had somebody asked me that recently too. I should probably know that by now, but it was one of the ones that my at the time my doctors said, you know, if you ever really plan on using this in the full functionality, if you want to go professional in the ballet world, you really should have this resolved.
00:09:17:12 - 00:09:43:01
Speaker 2
And it just it never really came back the way I thought it would. I never got it to its full flexion again. And even now I've noticed my mobility is a little bit limited from that. So it's kind of like, well, was it the right decision? I don't know. Maybe. But it it, you know, learning experience. I'm glad I quit ballet, but at the time I think I was lost.
00:09:43:01 - 00:10:03:13
Speaker 2
I didn't know what to turn to. So climbing was something that was a really easy transition for me and I felt like it was similar in a lot of ways. There's a lot of the same. I don't want to start out this way, but there were a lot of negative self-talk opportunities that I was like, Oh yeah, I know what this is like.
00:10:03:22 - 00:10:10:20
Speaker 2
So but it was, yeah, I feel like the two are quite, quite similar.
00:10:10:20 - 00:10:19:20
Speaker 1
Yeah. So what, what particularly gravitated towards climbing. Do you start off in a gym or how did that happen for you?
00:10:20:05 - 00:10:46:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, I started in a gym when I was still very end of college and I was looking for community. I was looking for another activity that I just I could meet people. And then after I graduated, I moved from Arizona to New Mexico and that was a really great way I felt to meet people, to get outside and to maybe even get outside my comfort zone a little bit.
00:10:46:12 - 00:11:00:11
Speaker 2
So it was it just led me to get more engaged in the sport and start to increase how much I was doing it. And then were you knew it. That was all I was doing as I feel like a lot of us do.
00:11:01:10 - 00:11:20:21
Speaker 1
I my girlfriend, she's a gymnast or at least was a gymnast and her sister was a ballet dancer. So they definitely there's so many cool parallels and crossovers between movement sports like that. Yeah, I just I definitely have heard that story of of it, the skills just transferring over so, so efficiently. So it's pretty cool.
00:11:21:00 - 00:11:24:09
Speaker 2
So do they do they climb then too or. Yeah.
00:11:24:09 - 00:11:28:19
Speaker 1
So he and I, my girlfriend, didn't start climbing until we met.
00:11:28:19 - 00:11:29:13
Speaker 2
Oh, okay.
00:11:29:14 - 00:11:31:16
Speaker 1
She just, like, picked up on it super quick.
00:11:32:10 - 00:11:34:11
Speaker 2
Yeah, not too hard not to.
00:11:34:11 - 00:11:53:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, she's. She's like, small and light, and so she doesn't have to worry about having, like, super strong fingers right away. So she was cool. And I had like four years of climbing experience before we met, so I was able to like get her up to speed pretty quick. And then her sister power doesn't climb as much, but every time she comes out and hangs out with us, she's climbing and stuff.
00:11:53:17 - 00:12:05:07
Speaker 1
So she too, like, you know, with a very limited amount of practice and experience, just same thing, you know, top rope tends, you know, it's just like a baseline level of understanding of movement that you have.
00:12:05:11 - 00:12:31:22
Speaker 2
So there's that overlap. I think too, and sort of like that muscle memory or something. I feel like I've seen that with gymnasts too, and also figure skaters. I've seen that transition work really well. And it's always it's not surprising, but it's always kind of shocking to see like, oh, yeah, there's the crossover with maybe that the muscle memory there something going on.
00:12:32:09 - 00:12:53:04
Speaker 1
It's probably the the full body awareness that you have to have sports like baseball. I mean I don't want to like talk down any of these sports, but there's there's a lot of repetitive motions that are similar, you know, like you're you're practicing like a throw or you're practicing like a specific movement. And there's so much like golf, like the movements are so subtle, but it's kind of the same thing.
00:12:53:04 - 00:13:05:17
Speaker 1
You have to get it so perfect. Whereas these other sports we're talking about, it's more of like a full body connectivity that you have to have and your body's in so many different positions. So to me that it seems like the difference would be.
00:13:05:18 - 00:13:07:20
Speaker 2
Mm hmm. Yeah, makes sense.
00:13:07:20 - 00:13:39:20
Speaker 1
I think there's almost an art to it intuitively climbing and kind of just viewing things out in and in the moment, figuring out the puzzle sense. And I think exactly what Kyle say's that's really unique, that's interesting in problem solving and not specializing on one particular movement or one particular function. It's it's coming to a problem that you perpetually have never been at before and be able to stay poised and calm and and to work your way through it, if that makes sense.
00:13:39:20 - 00:13:41:04
Speaker 1
I think that's really unique, right?
00:13:41:05 - 00:13:58:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. There's always changes or new challenges, new things to try. So it's probably why we all love it so much. There's just always something new to do or something new to try and get better at or shift gears, you know? Yeah. So.
00:13:59:03 - 00:14:01:10
Speaker 1
Always so much to focus on. It's very absorbing.
00:14:02:08 - 00:14:06:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, definitely crazy. Sometimes, but it's great.
00:14:08:07 - 00:14:31:09
Speaker 1
So another question I always love to ask all our guests, and this is just another kind of setting the stage as just briefly tell us, kind of like who you are as a climber now in terms of like technical difficulty, your preferred styles of climbing just kind of like it's fairly interesting for me personally and I think gives everybody good perspective on kind of like who our guests are.
00:14:32:05 - 00:14:53:11
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah, I would say I'm primarily a boulder. I started dabbling in both, but I just really fell in love with the sport of bouldering, more so than other disciplines and climbing. Just because I like the simplicity of it. And it was really easy to just get a pair of shoes, a chalk bag, and go out with friends with a pad.
00:14:53:11 - 00:15:28:19
Speaker 2
When I was in college and then grad school and I've, I've been climbing for about oh haven't done this, this calculation a while I guess six years maybe, maybe it's been seven and I'm sad to say I've plateaued projecting the nine for like three or four years. So that's still extremely impressive. Yeah, it's hard. Well, I. Yeah, it's been a I've had a lot of injuries in between.
00:15:28:19 - 00:15:52:01
Speaker 2
I've had struggles with just body image I guess is a blanket way I could say it. And then I've also been to grad school and done clinical hours in between then. So I think it just comes down to doing too much at once and I, I would love to get over that point, but, you know, I'm comfortable here.
00:15:52:01 - 00:15:59:11
Speaker 2
It's fine now. It's it's, you know, getting back on maybe building my basis and doing things that I haven't done before.
00:15:59:11 - 00:16:05:09
Speaker 1
So what would you if you could pick one thing, what would you say is your limitation right now?
00:16:05:09 - 00:16:38:15
Speaker 2
Probably so. I'm a very good at techie crim Kleins. I have. I always say that the anatomy of my hands lends itself to that because full crimping for me feels very safe and comfortable. But what I really struggle with is the dynamic power type of movement that involves maybe more coordination with, you know, light compression, but also pulling down, but also, you know, trying to pull in with the other arm.
00:16:38:15 - 00:16:49:12
Speaker 2
And it just gets I feel like those things maybe are are things that I'm working on now with technique where maybe in the past wasn't the the focus for a long time.
00:16:50:09 - 00:17:13:23
Speaker 1
I mean I think I'm like a vocal there. So to be fair to myself, since my ankle injuries, I can't really I never really pulled it before it and I can't really now cause just the falling on the ankles is pretty brutal. So I'm way better off on a on a rope. But in general, yep. Bouldering is definitely not my forte, although I have really enjoyed in gyms and stuff and it's really nice to be able to go.
00:17:14:03 - 00:17:15:16
Speaker 1
It's always so hard.
00:17:16:17 - 00:17:33:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get the best of all worlds, I think. You know, you're not just tied to one type and I feel the same way on rope. I immediately am like, Oh my God, I'm so scared of like I'd rather be on a56 like everything else. It's scary.
00:17:34:09 - 00:17:35:13
Speaker 1
Have you, have you let climb.
00:17:35:13 - 00:18:05:00
Speaker 2
On a rope before. Yep. Yeah. We typically here in the southwest, we have a typical season for us is like September through April is bouldering predominantly and then we'll switch to sport climbing of the rest of the year. So I'll do it begrudgingly. But you know, I still have fun. It's just, yeah, yeah. I have to spend a good half of the season getting back into the that mindset and that's always a struggle.
00:18:05:20 - 00:18:14:19
Speaker 1
I'm wondering if we can just briefly circle back here because you mentioned so you torn ligament in your ankle and then have you also broken your ankle?
00:18:14:19 - 00:18:17:11
Speaker 2
I sure did. Yep. We're all in good company. Yeah.
00:18:17:23 - 00:18:31:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I know. We've got a soft spot for that on this podcast. So I was, I was wondering, you know, without going to too in-depth, but maybe if you could tell us a little bit about that and kind of what happened and maybe how that's affecting you?
00:18:31:22 - 00:18:58:18
Speaker 2
Sure. Yeah, it's I think we all sort of have PTSD from our ankle injuries here. My first year ever climbing, I went out to Troy, New Mexico, which is a pretty cool sandstone crag here and northern New Mexico. And I got up my very first four and I was really stoked and I was like, Oh no, we didn't get it on camera.
00:18:58:18 - 00:19:19:15
Speaker 2
And I think that was like the height of when you get things on the camera, I don't do this now, but I was like, Okay, I got to send it again for the video. And for whatever reason, at the top out, I just I slipped, I let go and I just spun out into the fall and it was a pretty tall climb.
00:19:19:15 - 00:19:45:06
Speaker 2
So I, I mean, probably 20 feet. So not like the biggest climb to fall off of. But I was at the top and I just rolled into it, dislocated my ankle and I broke it. So I yeah, it was not a good time. Didn't need surgery, thank goodness. But I was in the cast for about two months and coming back to climbing after that was quite the struggle.
00:19:45:06 - 00:20:19:15
Speaker 2
But throughout that whole time I was hanging, boarding, just exclusively hanging boarding. And I really think that I can credit that time to creating almost bulletproof fingers because that's all I was doing. I was a young climber, very new within training age, and it just it helped and getting back into climbing took a little bit of time. But even now I find that I avoid just higher climbing because I don't ever want to have to spend that time recovering again.
00:20:19:15 - 00:20:35:04
Speaker 2
I mean, if you went through surgery, it's just it's just such a recovery process and it takes you out for so much longer. And the sports that we like to do, even if it's not climbing, a lot of them require us to be a bit more mobile then than being in a cast.
00:20:35:04 - 00:20:43:01
Speaker 1
So yeah, absolutely. That's not the first time that I have heard that story. There is someone.
00:20:43:05 - 00:20:43:15
Speaker 2
You know.
00:20:43:15 - 00:21:02:00
Speaker 1
We we we have people reach out to us on our on our Instagram and stuff, you know, because we we went through injuries and we talked so in-depth about that, the trauma and the healing process. We we had this lady who same thing. She was like a boulder and out with her friends. I think it was like a zero, but it was a high ball and she did it on successfully.
00:21:02:07 - 00:21:23:01
Speaker 1
Same stories like, Oh, I got to go get it for Instagram, did it again and lifted at the top and like she wasn't really unlucky though she like devastated her ankles, just like multiples of them. Bones. No, I'm sorry. Ankle is probably just one of them, but I she showed X-rays and it was, like, terrifying. And I just feel so bad.
00:21:23:01 - 00:21:36:09
Speaker 1
Like, that's that's rough. You know, you're you're beginner climber. You're on something easy, and it just goes to show you, you know, it's just like it can happen to anyone at any moment. And yeah, like, right, like you said, doing it again for the video sometimes isn't the best call.
00:21:37:11 - 00:21:54:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. Nobody has to befit for Instagram. I just. Yeah, that's probably one of the very last videos I have of me climbing just simply because I have the video of me screeching. It's like, we don't need that. We're good. No.
00:21:55:05 - 00:22:00:07
Speaker 1
I wasn't. That was even if they knew that. Yeah. You have the video of you breaking Arango. Brutal.
00:22:00:19 - 00:22:04:19
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. We had this freak out that. Yeah, I laugh at myself, but, you know.
00:22:05:17 - 00:22:32:08
Speaker 1
I think the thing is, we've all been there, right? Yeah. The difference is some people, it it it just played out and it was benign and others, they had a bad experience. I've done that. I've been filming things and then I've had some introspection. I'm like, I'm like, I really enjoy filming things. Yeah, I like to film a lot, but at the same time, there have been times where I'm doing something and I'm in this state where I just know this wasn't the right time to be focusing on this or to do this.
00:22:32:08 - 00:22:52:07
Speaker 1
It wasn't the right moment, if that makes sense, and things just happened to go well or play out, if that makes sense. But I think everybody's fallen victim to that kind of new digital age where obviously there's just so much sway to want to project and put things online and do things and then unfortunately, sometimes it doesn't work out.
00:22:53:12 - 00:23:08:16
Speaker 1
So to to kind of loop this back in to our main topic today, like, so we know who we are as a climber now like what drew you to your path in in nutrition like, you know, that's our big topic today. What what led you there for sure?
00:23:08:17 - 00:23:33:17
Speaker 2
I so nutrition is actually my second career. I started in soil science, weirdly enough, and I just felt like I was consistently gravitating back to nutrition because I had a history of eating disorders in my life. And I found that nutrition really was what healed me in a lot of ways. And finding that that balance, I just gravitated towards it as a science.
00:23:33:17 - 00:24:01:14
Speaker 2
But I never really made it my career until eventually I had a health scare in my early twenties that I just knew I had to make a change and I wanted to just finally go after what I had always wanted to do, which was nutrition. So it was a pretty big switch at the time. But ultimately I decided that I really wanted to help people on the way with nutrition that I found helpful.
00:24:01:14 - 00:24:28:01
Speaker 2
And it's really such a grounding force for athletes and just people in general. It's such a preventative approach in the health care system that I think gets overlooked a lot just by nature of, you know, a lot of doctors really aren't well versed in nutrition and and they aren't educated on these type of this type of science, really beyond a couple days, maybe a week in med school.
00:24:28:01 - 00:24:52:15
Speaker 2
So I feel like it's something that for me, I felt like I wanted more information on and I wanted to also support other people who are like me, who maybe needed nutrition help and didn't know where to go or what it could do for them. And it just it blew me away with how much I've been able to accomplish within my life and my climbing in general sport fitness just by having this information.
00:24:52:15 - 00:24:56:10
Speaker 2
So I really like to support the education spreading really.
00:24:58:01 - 00:25:20:02
Speaker 1
Nutrition at least to me. And I'm obviously biased because I find it so fascinating and amazing, but it's something every single person on this planet can almost instantly connect about, and every single thing you learn is 100% directly applicable. There's no kind of weird entry or this. You just you learn it. And I can do this right now for my body or my body right now it's doing this process right.
00:25:21:03 - 00:25:41:07
Speaker 1
And I know I have kind of talked about this before, whether it's been related to soft tissue injuries or other things. But the note you've touched on with the medical system and doctors in general, don't get me wrong, doctors are incredibly smart. And yes, but I think we've drastically overestimated the capacity for them to deal with certain things.
00:25:41:14 - 00:26:04:03
Speaker 1
Right. That issues that a physiotherapy should be doing, physiotherapy should be dealing with or that a nutritionist dealing with. And how many just simple things that you can change in your life that would just be unbelievable preventative measures or just people to just be happier is better, right? Yeah. And I think definitely if you have nutrition problems, don't go to your doctor.
00:26:05:14 - 00:26:07:00
Speaker 1
Sorry to knock them, but yeah.
00:26:07:00 - 00:26:30:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I've heard horror stories from doctors, what they've suggested and I think I mean, they are that system is under so much pressure and I think they feel like they need to be able to tell people that. But in actuality, there are people who are doing physiotherapy, who are doing nutrition, who really should be referred like people should be referred to them more.
00:26:30:04 - 00:27:02:02
Speaker 2
And I think there's just a lot of misinformation and certainly with nutrition, you know, everybody eat now, hopefully eats. And it's something that, like you said, is pretty entry level. You can start doing that today. But there's so many talking heads in the field of nutrition, too. And I really feel like there are you know, you have very famous, well-known doctors saying things online that people are there's this fearmongering culture now and you're just like, oh, my God, please just stop talking.
00:27:02:02 - 00:27:19:09
Speaker 2
You're adding more confusion, more frustration, and then, yeah, stress. And then the rest of us are like, Oh, no, well, what do I listen to now, the doctor or the nutrition professional? I mean, I think a lot of people tend to lead more towards the doctors.
00:27:20:16 - 00:27:32:18
Speaker 1
I think it's just a sad statement of our lack of follow through in school. I think that this like these are just especially just the simple basics, you know, that we're going to go into, I think, that are so missed and overlooked in high school.
00:27:32:18 - 00:27:34:21
Speaker 2
And and. Oh, yeah, it's.
00:27:34:21 - 00:27:39:11
Speaker 1
Just sad because it affects all of us so much and it almost feels like it's on purpose.
00:27:40:15 - 00:27:42:16
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely. I agree with that.
00:27:43:19 - 00:28:16:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. Just not not prioritized on a cultural level. And then you add massive advertising campaigns and lobbying and big money and big business and it's unfortunate. And then also I think just the reality that it's almost a smart biological built in system to to want to overeat or want to consume calorically dense things all the time. Right. And unfortunately, as humans, we have access to that 24 seven And that's obviously one of the greatest ailments versus ideas over nutrition now.
00:28:16:04 - 00:28:19:19
Speaker 1
And obviously, I know you suffer from undernutrition. That's another one as well too. So yeah.
00:28:19:19 - 00:28:20:14
Speaker 2
Full spectrum.
00:28:22:02 - 00:28:43:16
Speaker 1
Totally. But yeah, I guess going there, you know, kind of maybe a good thing to do is, you know, just for someone who maybe isn't versed in nutrition to kind of just, you know, we can start from the basics and build out from there, you know, and maybe talk about, you know, macronutrients totally if you want to. Just give us a little breakdown about that for someone who's listening.
00:28:43:16 - 00:29:18:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'd love to to jump in here. So when we talk about I guess the basics in nutrition macronutrients are typically those things that we need in larger amounts. So when we think about that, it's normally carbs, fat proteins, but we can also add calories just as an energy source here, cholesterol, fiber and sometimes water. And we do really need macronutrients, these bigger things and bigger amounts for our overall health, but also metabolism so we can utilize the energy that we are consuming.
00:29:18:19 - 00:29:29:21
Speaker 2
We need it for brain health and mood. We need it to, of course, support our immune system, our muscle mass bone health performance, things like that. So it really is important.
00:29:31:10 - 00:29:50:16
Speaker 1
Because you image everything. Yeah, everything. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, these to me, these are like the building blocks for, for, for life. Like this is the basics of kind of what things are made of on a high level and how our body communicates with itself. You know, this is a really simple question, just I think it should be covered.
00:29:50:16 - 00:30:00:08
Speaker 1
Like, can you just cover very briefly some use cases for these macronutrients that you just just covered like specifically each one.
00:30:01:09 - 00:30:04:09
Speaker 2
For, you know, when they'd actually be. Yeah, like what?
00:30:04:09 - 00:30:09:22
Speaker 1
Like what is our, what does our body use carbs for? What does our body use proteins for? Like what are the cases.
00:30:10:05 - 00:30:43:18
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. So carbs are the primary energy source and this is a preferred fuel source for the brain especially. But they also help build other macromolecules. They helps their protein and fat and also they're supportive for digestion as well and for things like proteins. This is heavily involved in immunity, the formation of new molecules, chemical reactions. They act as messengers to help coordinate other processes in the body.
00:30:44:02 - 00:31:13:05
Speaker 2
They're structural components. They help with transporting nutrients and for fats or lipids. They are actually the most abundant storage form of energy in the body. So we have the most fats to be able to utilize. And they also help protect our organs, help keep us warm. They support the growth of cells, the absorption of vitamins, and they help maintain blood pressure and cholesterol hormone production.
00:31:13:16 - 00:31:23:01
Speaker 2
They help keep us full. I mean, there's there's really a lot going on here, but that's why each one has its own independent importance in our diet.
00:31:23:01 - 00:31:31:18
Speaker 1
I've heard it maybe this is cliche, but I've heard that fats are like healthy for the brain specifically. Is there a particular reason for that?
00:31:31:18 - 00:31:56:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, fats are really healthy for the brain because things like omega threes are what help us with different processes to actually fire those neurotransmitters, but also just structurally brain health in general. You know, we talk about saturated fat a lot and people are like saturated fat is bad, but there's actually a lot of your, you know, your gray matter, a lot of your brain is made of fat.
00:31:56:14 - 00:32:00:20
Speaker 2
So we do really need this nutrient. It's a critical nutrient for us.
00:32:00:20 - 00:32:11:14
Speaker 1
I'm wondering if we can also talk kind of a quick distinction here of micronutrients. And so maybe if you can take it away with your expertize and just kind of give it the distinction of what's the difference there.
00:32:11:19 - 00:32:38:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, so alternative to macro nutrients, micronutrients are just the things that we need in relatively smaller amounts. So when we talk about microbes, we consider these to be vitamins and minerals and these really do help us with proper functioning in our body. They support and regulate metabolic processes, energy metabolism, red blood cell production and things like antioxidant functionality too.
00:32:38:15 - 00:32:59:02
Speaker 2
So they're kind of like the behind the scenes nutrients, if you will. Whereas the bigger things that we're consuming are heavily emphasized towards structure and energy. I would say the micronutrients are more so for the, you know, the support nutrients that are working behind the curtain, so to speak.
00:32:59:02 - 00:33:11:05
Speaker 1
What would you say that a deficiency in macronutrients or micronutrients is more immediately felt and like? Are there consequences more on one side than the other when you have deficiencies?
00:33:12:04 - 00:33:40:14
Speaker 2
That's a really good question. I've never, never been asked that before. I would probably say in the short term you're more likely to feel a deficiency in a macronutrient just simply because those are so heavily important for energy and just rebuilding cells and structures. But certainly with a micronutrient deficiency, this could be felt even in, you know, a matter of just several weeks.
00:33:40:14 - 00:33:53:03
Speaker 2
Someone might start to feel the effects of that. But it does it does depend probably person to person, I'd say. And how deficient they are and really what the deficiency is caused by what the source of that is.
00:33:53:20 - 00:34:27:19
Speaker 1
That makes sense to me. Like a deficiency in macronutrients. I mean most, most abundantly be characterized as hunger and absolute deficiency. And in maca and micronutrients, I feel is more subtle. You might just feel like garbage. You might just be tired all the time. You might just be like having brain fog or or something like that. And to me, like when I start feeling like that and I'm eating and I'm not feeling good still, it's like, all right, like I need to go get, like, a bunch of vegetables from the store, and I need to create, like, a juice that I'm going to eat, drink every day for seven days.
00:34:28:01 - 00:35:02:00
Speaker 1
And then, sure enough, you know, like right after my juicing session, I feel like some balance there. Yeah. Just getting rid of that, that micronutrient deficiency. So the calorie, I have a CrossFit background and a Paleo diet background. And the big thing that they taught us is calories basically in terms of of assessing your diet and what you're putting in and out of your body, it's pretty much pointless to to watch if you are otherwise watching macro and micronutrients instead because they are attached to them.
00:35:02:00 - 00:35:22:22
Speaker 1
Kind of. It's like to me like and the way I've been taught is focusing on macronutrients micronutrients is better than focusing on caloric intake. Can you quickly just kind of talk to us like what is a calorie and how it plays in our diet and whether you agree with my opinion on the difference between us?
00:35:22:22 - 00:35:58:17
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, I like the way. Well, I guess I'll, I'll comment on the opinion side first, but I do like the way that in, you know, a lot of the fitness communities, the emphasis on macronutrients and micronutrients is greater just simply because I think there's a lot to be said about not paying attention to the specific calorie amount because oftentimes people, you know, you could eat 3000 calories that are majority carbs and fat, but you're missing such a critical nutrient protein for recovery.
00:35:58:17 - 00:36:30:02
Speaker 2
So I feel like the macronutrient side of things is certainly helpful and especially for people. They're if they have a history of disordered eating or a tendency to get obsessive with tracking, I think macros am really helpful. I really love like the hand portion visuals, you know, like cupped hands, flattened palms and then thumbs with fat. Like, I love that because I feel like that's such a digestible way for a lot of people to get into understanding what quote enough looks like.
00:36:30:15 - 00:36:56:08
Speaker 2
But on the other side of things, I think understanding calorically what you know, what's enough for people? That's often what I like to look at. Is it enough? Are you eating enough? Because I think a lot of people tend to under eat surprisingly with a lot of people I work with are surprised when I say, you know, maybe maybe you're really tired and feel like garbage all the time because you're under consuming 500 calories.
00:36:56:08 - 00:37:17:19
Speaker 2
And the second they add those calories back in, you know, their weight stays the same. But they have energy. They're not wasting away any more. So it's not everybody's that way. But that's a very common story that I hear. And calories in general, I think, you know, they have their place. Right. But I do like to take the more intuitive side of things.
00:37:17:19 - 00:37:35:09
Speaker 2
And I think that is something that we all forget that we have the capacity to do. It's just maybe we've ourselves for so long that we don't really know that we can trust ourselves anymore. We're like, well, we're hungry. We're not supposed to be. Well, actually, very physiological function. Yeah.
00:37:35:18 - 00:37:54:01
Speaker 1
And I think that's an interesting point you brought up. I think it's a matter of like how much attention does a client or does an individual have on paying attention to their diet? I think the whole concept of it can be pretty overwhelming for a lot of people. And if you jump right in to be like, all right, like focus on macronutrients and micronutrients, you're like, whoa, whoa.
00:37:54:02 - 00:38:13:15
Speaker 1
Like, I don't even know what these things are. You know, all I look at these calories, you know, like and so I think that as a starting point, calories is a lot more of a digestible way to absorb kind of a baseline understanding of like, all right, like how much do I need to eat each day? And then we can take these steps forward on breaking down what you're consuming rather than how much.
00:38:14:04 - 00:38:40:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, the meal components, the composition of your meal versus the actual, you know, like absolute value. Because I tend to get ranges too. Like I'll, I'll give a, you know, 200 to 300 calorie range instead of an absolute number. Just because I feel like the average over time is more important than hitting a target number each day because it's just it's it's kind of a little too specific.
00:38:40:04 - 00:38:44:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people really struggle with that, you know, like it's hard to.
00:38:44:18 - 00:38:55:02
Speaker 1
Hit a certain amount each day, too. It's like I've tried to, like I've done measuring before and I've done like writing to hit like this many grams of fat or whatever a day and it's yeah, super hard to make it exact.
00:38:55:02 - 00:38:56:08
Speaker 2
So stress got to.
00:38:56:08 - 00:38:57:15
Speaker 1
You got to be flexible.
00:38:58:12 - 00:39:08:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Did you know too that the way that we talk about calories is actually not quite like, technically correct?
00:39:09:14 - 00:39:12:01
Speaker 1
It's talking about a kilo calories. Yep.
00:39:12:07 - 00:39:36:04
Speaker 2
I sure am. Yeah. Well, so when we think about like, okay, lower case calorie is what we typically see a lot, but it's actually technically not correct. So that's of course the we think of it as like the energy that we need in order to raise one gram of water, one degree Celsius. But really what we're talking about is a kilo calorie.
00:39:36:04 - 00:40:04:12
Speaker 2
That's more correct. And that is the energy that's required to raise a kilogram of water, one degree Celsius. So what we're actually talking about when we say calories in terms of energy and food, we're talking about or upper case calories and it's a unit of energy of 1000 lowercase calories. So 1000 lowercase calories equals one large calorie. So it doesn't really matter for the consumer.
00:40:04:12 - 00:40:11:12
Speaker 2
But I always thought that was kind of interesting being like, Huh, wonder why colloquially Coke really, we talk about it that way.
00:40:12:16 - 00:40:22:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, you're actually giving reference to something that's a thousand more calorie dense, right? So maybe that's why people don't don't say that.
00:40:22:12 - 00:40:24:21
Speaker 2
Right. 40,000 calories a day. People would be like.
00:40:25:12 - 00:40:25:21
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:40:27:06 - 00:40:32:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or maybe they wouldn't. Maybe that.
00:40:32:10 - 00:40:45:18
Speaker 1
Well, I know speaking for myself, I like I, I was really athletic my entire life. But then prior to getting into climbing, I actually managed the nutrition store and I got really big into power lifting in March and I got out.
00:40:46:03 - 00:40:47:07
Speaker 2
As one does, doing.
00:40:47:19 - 00:41:11:07
Speaker 1
All those classes, kind of like gym and strength and power exercises. And it was fun for a time, but it just I was on a regimented system of eating huge amounts of foods. I'm the complete polar opposite. I need to regulate what I eat because if I actually listen to what my brain tells me to eat when I'm hungry, I'd be way, way larger than I am.
00:41:11:07 - 00:41:34:16
Speaker 1
It's so I'm the complete opposite. I think that what you find and that's something I've really struggled with in certain ways because obviously wanting to excel at the sport climbing. Yeah, you know, power to weight ratio is 100% of thing. You know, I'm about 190, £195. It's not your typical climbing bill for your crusher. Not that I'm a crusher, but in general.
00:41:34:16 - 00:41:40:14
Speaker 1
I'm wondering, in your practice, do you experience more under or over nutrition with people?
00:41:40:14 - 00:42:14:17
Speaker 2
I would say if I had to put a generalization on it, I would say most people are under eating because even like let's say, for example, you have someone who is £190, I actually mean my husband's £190. You know, like there there are some bigger like larger bodied athletes out there. And I think what's really easy to assume in that situation is, okay, well, the easiest low lowest hanging fruit is that if you were to drop cut, you know, £20, you'd climb harder.
00:42:14:17 - 00:42:36:12
Speaker 2
But what are you in that instance? Like, what are you willing to sacrifice in terms of like muscle mass, you know, and are there other things that you could do initially? Like, for example, could you dial in your nutrition just to support you more? Could there be a better diversity of foods to support recovery? Or is the composition of your you're eating?
00:42:36:12 - 00:43:10:18
Speaker 2
Maybe could that be improved or is it sleep? Is it stress management? Is it something like your training could not be improved? So I feel like those are the things that are maybe a bit harder to tackle. So I wonder for me if, if, you know, weight loss and body composition, if those are things that we naturally gravitate towards just because they're they're not easy, but they may tend to be something you can you can more like digest to do in a shorter amount of time rather than say, well, I'm going to transform my sleep and have no stress.
00:43:10:18 - 00:43:36:22
Speaker 2
So yeah, like, yeah, you know, I never really it's I think it's a balancing act in the circle back. Most people I do work with, they could they could eat more. They do have that room to eat more. And I find that when they start eating more and they work on their composition of their meals of the foods are eating in terms of their macronutrients, they actually see more gains in their climbing.
00:43:36:22 - 00:43:52:09
Speaker 2
And even if they start to put on weight from, let's say, muscle mass from training, they're able to pull more pound for pound. They're pulling that that body weight more effectively just because they've worked on those foundational things more so than losing weight, if that makes sense.
00:43:53:16 - 00:44:19:19
Speaker 1
Totally. I know for myself I can really gradually lose weight if I'm really eating very healthy, focusing on my nutrition. I can I can also lose weight quite fast if I want. Why I can do it at the expense of performance. I can. Yeah, I have quite a high training load and I train a lot like all the time and I can not facilitate doing that in any way.
00:44:20:01 - 00:44:40:22
Speaker 1
And obviously that treatment is subjective. You know, it depends. You're right. For me, it's a very high training. Yeah. And, and can not even remotely sustain that the second I start getting myself into that core deficit. So I kind of have to go on this choice where I'm like, okay, yeah, like what you're saying, do I want to do I think that losing the weight is really going to solve my problem and all of a sudden I'm going to be climbing harder?
00:44:41:17 - 00:44:59:09
Speaker 1
What if I start losing the weight and I can't perform, I can't climb? Well, all my training sessions are going down. My my training volume is going down. Then obviously that's kind of seems like an oxymoron, right? How is that actually going to improve me in the long run, if that makes sense? Yeah. So yeah, I don't know.
00:44:59:09 - 00:45:11:20
Speaker 1
It's definitely something I've really struggled with and I think a lot about and I'm trying to tweak, but ultimately when I am eating a lot of good, healthy food and I'm feeling good and I'm training, that's what I use in my life and feeling really good.
00:45:11:22 - 00:45:16:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's great. Two things. Feeling happy and feeling good. Love it. That's awesome.
00:45:17:17 - 00:45:35:05
Speaker 1
I think that that's like that's the focus, right? It's like it's being happy and feeling good. It's not what do I weigh or how do I look in the mirror? You know, obviously there are small components to those things. But I think, like you said before, it's when you get your clients to shift their perspective on what they're focusing on.
00:45:35:05 - 00:45:46:20
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's when the big things change. And I think a lot of people can get obsessed with like how they look in the mirror and what number is on the scale and then curtail their diet based on those two factors alone.
00:45:47:05 - 00:45:47:11
Speaker 2
And.
00:45:47:11 - 00:46:05:20
Speaker 1
Then wonder why they're not feeling good or why they're not sending anymore. And, you know, it's it's there's a lot more that goes into it. And I think when you're when you have a full, well rounded diet and you're taking care of all your body needs, it's all going to come together and your body is going to reach a certain level of homeostasis and size and everything to be at its peak performance.
00:46:06:12 - 00:46:23:18
Speaker 2
Definitely, I could not agree more. It's just it's one of those things you have to kind of figure out and like be able to give yourself the space and time to figure out what that looks like. Because I think we're always trying to emulate what other people are doing and we still feel terrible and we wonder like, huh, what am I doing wrong?
00:46:23:18 - 00:46:53:04
Speaker 2
Maybe I should go even more, you know, the other side and go more extreme. And it's like, no, just you got, you know, like, maybe, maybe just shift and dial it back a bit before you, you know, like make sure you're ready and in a place where you can really think about those decisions, because if you are losing weight climbing or let's say you've a project and you want to lose a couple of pounds, maybe you'll send that project, but you probably won't be able to do that and keep that up for very long.
00:46:53:04 - 00:47:13:21
Speaker 2
Like, I'm sure you've seen this in the coaching world too, and I've heard this example given to me before. Just because you send your project doesn't mean you're the strongest. You've ever been, because you might climb other things and not be able to perform. And people are like, What is going on? And it's like these really strange things that we assume that aren't quite right.
00:47:15:08 - 00:47:25:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. And then yeah, there's training for specific objectives, whether it like for the best example I can come up with is wrestling that period right before wrestling where they lose all that warm water weight and they shed.
00:47:25:11 - 00:47:25:14
Speaker 2
Like.
00:47:26:00 - 00:47:48:11
Speaker 1
£20 like awful that, you know, they're at peak performance on the mat because they have to fit their weight scale. But what do they do right after that mat that that event, they eat a bunch of food. They get back to that kind of like homeostasis, you know. And I think that, you know, if you're really trying to send something really hard in the climbing world and you have a project, you should try to approach it like that.
00:47:48:11 - 00:48:04:06
Speaker 1
You know, like before, right before the project, you can get super extreme, lose the weight and then get back to your level again where it's healthy for your body and then maybe like a treat it more like that where you have these time zones of performance rather than trying to always be at the peak because no one can do that.
00:48:04:16 - 00:48:26:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think seasonal performance is something that's lost in the climbing world a lot. Like I think I mean every other sport really they have seasons, pre-seasons and then maintenance or off season. So I think we kind of forget, yeah, it's like that peak time. It doesn't have to be year round, but for a lot of us I think we think it has to be or it should be or we want it to be.
00:48:27:08 - 00:48:27:12
Speaker 2
Mm.
00:48:27:23 - 00:48:54:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. I sent a last week I to 200% be able to send 11 eight this week right. Absolutely not. You know over time if the trajectory is staying the same, going up and you're knocking off more of the grades, then you're seeing kind of a linear progress but day to day, week to week to kind of expect to perform the exact same as a previous week or two, to always try and perform climbing your max, your read point or your highest grade.
00:48:54:18 - 00:49:16:04
Speaker 1
That's just not realistic at all. And it's right. It's not going to set you up for success if you're not beginning with a lot of failure, which by me is one last thing. I just wanted to circle back real quick. And you were saying that in your experience, we're dealing with more people who had undernutrition. And I'm wondering, do you feel that that's something that's unique to the climbing community and to your practice in the climbing community?
00:49:16:04 - 00:49:37:03
Speaker 1
Because obviously, statistically, you know, the world at least in in more I don't like the word developed necessarily more developed like first world countries, you know, overnutrition is by far I think overtaking people as opposed to undernutrition, or at least in my understanding of it. So I'm wondering if you think that's something that's unique to the climbing community?
00:49:37:03 - 00:50:03:04
Speaker 2
I don't think it's unique to the climbing community. I think it's unique to the athletic community because when we talk about overnutrition, I would say probably more often than not the individuals we're getting those stats from are largely sedentary or, you know, if they are active, it's pretty minimal or, you know, they just live a different lifestyle than maybe a lot of athletes do.
00:50:03:15 - 00:50:45:19
Speaker 2
And in my experience, you know, I've worked with not only climbers, I've worked with Muay Thai fighters, jiu jitsu runners, skiers, cyclists, swimmers, dancers, you know, like a lot of sports. And that seems to be a really common theme. And I think it's because we as athletes don't understand how much we're actually using in terms of energy. Like if you ask to I'll give the climber example, you ask a climber to throw their numbers into a calorie calculator and they give themselves an activity factor of, you know, something crazy, like equivalent to one day of activity a week, because we're like, Oh, well, I'm sitting around a lot and I'm like, Okay, well, what about
00:50:45:19 - 00:51:07:09
Speaker 2
the hike to the crag? What about the warm up circuit you did at the gym? What about like all these strength training things that you do and by the time we get to the, you know, those asking those questions, they work out six days a week. And I'm like, you have to account for that. So for some reason, we underestimate what we're utilizing for energy.
00:51:07:09 - 00:51:19:13
Speaker 2
And I do see this a lot. So I don't think it's just climbers, but maybe it's in the athletic sphere kind of where we all are, place ourselves like do we not think we're athletes or something? What's going on?
00:51:20:11 - 00:51:46:13
Speaker 1
My guess is that we underestimate I mean, this is a very broad assumption, but at least for like long approaches and alpine climbs are aggressive approaches. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're probably burning more calories on the approach and the descent than you are on the climb itself. But the climb is so intense and engaging that you're like, Oh, it has to be, you know, like that's the only time where I'm really exercising, you know?
00:51:46:20 - 00:52:00:16
Speaker 1
And I think that it definitely could be something that we overlook is just how how much energy were burning when we were hiking in with a £40 pack and took five miles in 4000 feet of elevation. That's substantial, you know?
00:52:01:09 - 00:52:20:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, that's nothing like you have a whole epic before you even get to the actual climb, I think. Yeah, that's one of the things I work with my athletes on. We try to understand how to fuel around that time frame because I think people, you know, and I'm like, Oh, well, what did you eat, you know, before you started your hike?
00:52:20:16 - 00:52:38:20
Speaker 2
After your hike, while you're up, they go, Oh, well, nothing. And I'm like, Well, why not? You know, you gave one burn on your project and you get upset because you think you did something wrong. And the thing that you did wrong is that you suck. It's that you didn't refuel after a massive hike. That's so. Yeah.
00:52:39:20 - 00:53:08:05
Speaker 1
I think that's a really great segway. I mean, we're already talking about energy and I think kind of what we did with these essential nutrients here, you know, for someone who's listening here, maybe if we can kind of go into those different energy systems and what their purposes are and what their pros and cons are, you know. And so I think the first one we have here is that the aerobic system and maybe if you want to explain a little bit about that and kind of yeah.
00:53:08:19 - 00:53:32:15
Speaker 2
Totally. I love talking about energy systems and I, I joke that if everyone learned about energy systems, I feel like we'd all be better at fueling. So it's definitely important to talk about and the thing I always like to say is like the, you know, maybe not caveat, but the, the important thing to know about energy systems is that they're all simultaneously happening at the same time.
00:53:32:20 - 00:53:58:12
Speaker 2
But one of them might be predominant during exercise. So it's not as if, you know, when we say, oh, aerobic, you know, you're in your aerobic energy system. I mean, this one is happening a lot of the times because this is the one that we're using for everyday things like low and slow activity, walking, dancing, maybe we think of it in terms of like endurance sports and potentially has limitless energy.
00:53:58:12 - 00:54:18:00
Speaker 2
So it seems to be the one that even at rest that this is the one that we're running off of, which I think kind of feels like a bit of an oxymoron. When people think of aerobic aerobic workouts, they're like, wait, this is what I'm doing at rest. That doesn't make any sense. But basically all it means is just that we're burning fat for an energy source.
00:54:18:00 - 00:55:04:04
Speaker 2
Primarily, you'll sometimes use carbs too, but fat is going to be that low and slow support of this low and slow energy system for longer durations of time. And it does have the most energy or ATP produced out of all of the energy systems. And the only downside is that it is quite slow to deliver that energy. So that's why when we, you know, we think about how to fuel around certain types of exercise, like if somebody was going to run a long distance race, maybe there are more combined food sources to be supportive here, like fats and carbs and protein, whereas something like, you know, a quick sprint might be more of a carb
00:55:04:04 - 00:55:05:21
Speaker 2
based activity.
00:55:07:07 - 00:55:30:23
Speaker 1
What would you what would you say? Like the the time frame is for is obviously we we start in an anaerobic energy cycle for the most part. We start exercising. And then there at least if we continue at a certain level of of moderate intensity, that anaerobic cycle starts to kick on. I'm certain aerobic cycle starts to kick on, switched.
00:55:31:20 - 00:55:37:07
Speaker 1
We'll talk about the time frame a little bit in terms of like how those cycles start to progress into one another.
00:55:37:20 - 00:56:12:01
Speaker 2
Yeah, I it does depend certainly on on the person too. But you've probably seen that, that, that chart, that graph there that's like your RMR that when your, your output goes up, your oxygen goes down or your, your need of increased oxygen goes up. So that's why the aerobic system kicks in. But basically, you if you were to put it linearly, you'd have the anaerobic a lactic system kick on first.
00:56:12:01 - 00:56:36:10
Speaker 2
And that's like a super short burst of power click duration. Then you'd have the anaerobic lactic system come on and that's probably 1 to 2 minutes and you might switch between those two depending on how what your fitness is like. But usually the aerobic system is something that'll come on to support the body when you need that extra burst of oxygen in your cells.
00:56:36:18 - 00:56:59:00
Speaker 2
And like I said, I would assume that most athletes are going to have a different time when that's, I guess, more activated predominantly. But I should say different athletes in terms of sports are going to have different fitness levels of how they've trained each of those systems. So it could be more or less depending on the athlete in the activity too.
00:56:59:18 - 00:57:22:03
Speaker 1
So that's cool. That actually brought up another question I had is that you can train these systems specifically to kick on faster or shorter because that's definitely something that I've personally tried to do is as it correctly, I guess I guess I'm confused real quick. Aerobic is the fast firing energy source system that gives you a burst of energy.
00:57:22:03 - 00:57:25:14
Speaker 1
And so is the one that oxygen in fat or is it other way round the.
00:57:25:23 - 00:57:57:16
Speaker 2
Other way around? So if we start like if we start from fastest and the least amount of energy produced, that's the anaerobic lactic system. So that would be creatine phosphate. So that's the one that we're getting in that five to second, 5 to 10 second bursts of power. That would be something like, you know, you're right at the starting line and you know, you hear the the race starts and you go and you even on like a hard boulder, that would be like a quick burst of power or something like that.
00:57:58:01 - 00:58:19:18
Speaker 2
But very little energy is produced in the system and it's such a short duration of time, you know, that's why people might use things like creatine to help support that system, but it does provide very quick, usable energy. And then you have the next system, which is the anaerobic lactic or glycolysis, and this one's going to be just a little bit longer.
00:58:19:18 - 00:58:42:01
Speaker 2
Maybe it's the power endurance, if you think of it that way over 1 to 2 minutes, high intensity still, and you're going to get more ATP, more energy produced than you would in the creatine for the system. But it's still going to be a little bit more and still less than the aerobic system. And then finally, the aerobic system is last.
00:58:42:01 - 00:58:59:21
Speaker 2
And that's kind of where a lot of those endurance athletes sit. You know, if they're going to be running a marathon, they'll probably sit in the system and the others will pop up occasionally. But that'll be the predominant one in endurance sports. So it gets without a visual. I'm like, I'm like in my mind, I'm like mapping it out.
00:58:59:21 - 00:59:01:11
Speaker 2
But, you know, I remember.
00:59:01:11 - 00:59:22:21
Speaker 1
I remember drawing this graph and teaching this to my students and I just I got the names all mixed up. So thanks for clarifying that. Absolutely. It's essentially based on power output, though, right? Yeah. It's the more the more power you have access to, the the less that system can actually produce the energy required for the power, if that's correct.
00:59:22:21 - 00:59:27:06
Speaker 2
Right. Just slow. So yeah. Yeah. Production of power. Yeah, exactly.
00:59:27:17 - 00:59:45:17
Speaker 1
And so depending on the depending on the type of climber you are, for example, if you're a really hard sport climber or boulder climber, your focus is really going to be on those anaerobic systems and you're going to be utilizing those so much more. And so you're going to you're going to increase your capacity in those two systems.
00:59:45:23 - 01:00:06:15
Speaker 1
Whereas if maybe you're really into alpine ism or really big long days in the mountains or multiple times, you know, your average climb days like ten, 20 hours, right? You can you can never facilitate that on your anaerobic system. Obviously, you're using your anaerobic system in those harder moves and stuff. But the reality is what you really need is anaerobic powerhouse, right.
01:00:06:15 - 01:00:17:17
Speaker 1
Stock pending on the type of climbing you like you actually are needing to cater specifying which system you're looking to train more if that makes sense, right?
01:00:17:17 - 01:00:18:21
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah.
01:00:19:09 - 01:00:55:14
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I think that's just a really important distinction and something that I find so beautiful and so amazing about climbing is that it's, you know, you hear the word climbing and you go, okay, it's climbing. But Mick's climbing to hard, Mick's climbing to do crack climbing. It's almost an entirely different sport. And then even within those subsets, you could be really, really hard single pitch climber, or you could be Mick's climbing to facilitate your massive aerobic days in the mountains so you could be an endurance climber, or you could be a super hardcore single, pitch anaerobic climber.
01:00:55:17 - 01:01:18:17
Speaker 1
And obviously there's crossovers in the system. It's a bit of a distinction here. There's a lot more nuance to it than that. But I've always been so fascinated with climbing at those distinctions that there's there's like ten subcategories. And within all of those subcategories, there's tons of specific ways and tons of different things that you have to train to facilitate being better at that in a certain way.
01:01:18:17 - 01:01:22:07
Speaker 1
Right. And it's just so fascinating. So interesting. Yeah.
01:01:23:11 - 01:01:44:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like running is maybe the closest we could compare us to maybe swimming too, but feel like climbing. You know, I'm glad it's getting more attention. Maybe we'll get some more understanding and awareness and, you know, talk about muscle fibers and genetics and get all a bit nerdier and climbing, I think could be kind of a cool, cool segway.
01:01:44:11 - 01:01:54:05
Speaker 2
So it's, you know, people just understand what they can work on and what their strengths are and equally what what things they can train and improve. I love it.
01:01:55:17 - 01:02:10:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's just kind of like going breaking down, you know, we're going we're starting with the basics and going down into all these different ways. We can understand nutrition in the way your body works and you can just dove so deep. But it all plays such a role in everything that we do.
01:02:11:02 - 01:02:13:05
Speaker 2
Right at 100%.
01:02:13:20 - 01:02:28:09
Speaker 1
And so the last thing I think we wanted to touch here on energy systems and I think this is going to pertain to things we'll discuss a little bit later, but was gluconeogenesis. Yeah maybe if you could explain what that is and in the relevance. Yeah.
01:02:28:14 - 01:03:01:15
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we're going to go Genesis is that's a cool little I guess cycle pathway in the body. So I didn't learn this as an energy system, but I learned this says how the body breaks down non carbs, sources of nutrients to make carbs when glucose is particularly lacking or absent either from the diet, prolonged time period without carbs coming in or it's not readily accessible from within our body, our muscles or our liver.
01:03:02:02 - 01:03:26:20
Speaker 2
And this is also a cool cycle because in the process of converting these nutrients that are stored in our body to a usable carbs, whereas it also helps support our acid base balance and to make sure our body system is the way that it needs to be, and also making sure our cells are the way that we want them to be, too.
01:03:26:20 - 01:03:35:18
Speaker 2
And also for amino acid metabolism too. So it is a cool pull cycle here pathway, I guess I'd call it totally.
01:03:35:18 - 01:04:06:10
Speaker 1
And I think that'll placate into once again in those those longer and longer days in the mountains, you obviously weight is a consideration and you're not able to carry enough or obviously we've all, I'm sure, heard of quite insane climbing feats where, you know, someone's doing something and they have very little inevitably you're going to run into these kind of pathways where you're not going to be able to provide enough nutrients for your body to sustain what's going on is going to have other modalities or pathways to provide energy to the back.
01:04:06:10 - 01:04:17:12
Speaker 1
So I guess, yeah, exactly. And I guess one last subset I'd ask you about and you're familiar with them, I'm guessing you are is ketones. Maybe you want to just briefly touch on that.
01:04:17:16 - 01:04:45:22
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. Ketones are if people are listening, you're like, I know that, but what is it? Usually we talk about those with the keto diet and ketones are ketones are just fatty acids from the liver. They're an energy source when carbs are also lacking or deficient. So the body would produce these as a quick it's still slower than carbs but as a usable energy source when that nutrient is not available.
01:04:46:13 - 01:04:50:21
Speaker 2
So that would be produced so that your especially has nutrients coming in.
01:04:52:14 - 01:05:08:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. Super, super cool. Is it is is the ketone always in play when your body's breaking down fat to use it as energy? Or is it a special form of the fat that's used when you are in a long state of deficiency and carb intake?
01:05:09:12 - 01:05:43:00
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's, it's particularly a fatty acid that would be utilized when carbs are particularly low. So your body still can break down fatty acids and use those as an energy source. But in particular, ketones are in the pathway of how they're converted, how they're utilized, the intention of the body. It's not to say that they're supposed to be exactly like glucose, but it's supposed to kind of mimic that in terms of how the brain gets that energy, just because certain molecules can't cross the blood brain barrier.
01:05:43:00 - 01:05:52:23
Speaker 2
So it has to be broken down to a point when it can break that barrier to be utilized for energy. Got it. They're cool.
01:05:53:11 - 01:05:57:00
Speaker 1
Super cool. So fast. It's so cool, right?
01:05:57:00 - 01:05:59:05
Speaker 2
I think so. I'm glad you did. Yes.
01:05:59:16 - 01:06:20:21
Speaker 1
It's so awesome. That's it's really crazy. I mean, I could be wrong with this, but my my thought process and maybe I've just heard this gently or something, but my thought process to it is essentially through evolution. We have to build these mechanisms because obviously if you are in a hunter gatherer society or something, you're not going to have instant access to glucose.
01:06:21:05 - 01:06:43:10
Speaker 1
I just go to that local farming store and I buy gels and I go buy my jerky by apple and I bring it to Crag. But obviously a long time ago, that wasn't that wasn't what happened. And I think what allowed humans to sell so well as a species is our capacity for endurance. And obviously having something like gluconeogenesis, where you can create carbohydrates out of other things.
01:06:43:10 - 01:07:04:10
Speaker 1
And then ketones, when you're in the absence of like glucose, it's nothing there. You have these systems that kick in to allow us to still be functioning because if you're starving, you need to be able to be sharp and to have right to do something to find your food sources. And and this obviously plays really well into to an endurance capacity, right?
01:07:04:18 - 01:07:10:08
Speaker 1
Not really well, because obviously you'd rather be functioning on like adequate nutrition and consuming. Right.
01:07:10:15 - 01:07:11:00
Speaker 2
Right.
01:07:11:10 - 01:07:25:14
Speaker 1
Glucose for your body. But it's what what is it is what allows us to dig really deep and to do these kind of superhuman feats of endurance or these really, really long days out. Yeah, I think it's so fascinating. So interesting.
01:07:25:14 - 01:07:28:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean I mean. Oh, go ahead.
01:07:28:22 - 01:07:46:02
Speaker 1
I just mean on like a darker side. This these energy systems are there to keep you alive when you can't eat. And what it was like, you can survive, what, 30 days without eating food. That's an absurd amount of time and just a true statement to these energy systems and what they can pull off when you really need them.
01:07:46:13 - 01:08:12:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, they're evolutionarily there to support us. I mean, when you think about carbs and fat storage, I mean, hi, these numbers might not be exact, but use something like 1400 calories worth of stored carbs when you have a consistent diet in them. But you have 40,000 calories or more stored fat, you know, calories, fat energy at any given time for most people.
01:08:12:14 - 01:08:29:03
Speaker 2
So You know, if we're talking about like reservoirs for energy, certainly fat is going to be a big one. Body doesn't want to give it away. So it may give up protein first, but it is a really substantial part of, you know, probably why evolutionarily we've been able to do the things that we have done.
01:08:29:20 - 01:08:32:13
Speaker 1
Yeah. Is there is it breaks down protein.
01:08:33:17 - 01:08:36:08
Speaker 2
Protein would be gluconeogenesis. Yeah. Okay.
01:08:36:08 - 01:08:37:09
Speaker 1
Got you got to that's what you said.
01:08:37:13 - 01:09:01:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. So it would break that down, you know the body wants to keep its fat because you know, we don't know if we think about evolution biology. Our body wants to keep that to protect our organs and make sure that we have body heat. So, you know, a lot of people like the, you know, going back to the darkness but with like starvation state people lose their muscle first.
01:09:01:00 - 01:09:13:18
Speaker 2
Like that's what what happens, you know, that's just what the body wants to, you know, give up first for an energy source because fat is just so precious. And that's what what we know, what our bodies know to do.
01:09:14:07 - 01:09:37:04
Speaker 1
I think I think the number I've heard is I mean, it's similar to what you said, but 70000 to 100000 calories for fat stores. And I think a short realizes you could you could see it in an endurance athlete who looks really lean and really skinny. And we kind of associate that with, okay, you know, like esthetics is geometric in our culture is how we associate fatty foods.
01:09:37:05 - 01:10:00:20
Speaker 1
Right. But the reality is you have all that visceral fat and that adipose tissue and this thing from inside in your organs in those areas. And so even a really lean in, turns out you can have a 40, 70,000 calories of fat stored on them. And that is that's that's why the aerobics system, when you don't have such a high demand or output, allows you to just power through and keep going right straight.
01:10:00:20 - 01:10:01:01
Speaker 1
Right.
01:10:01:06 - 01:10:05:09
Speaker 2
It's amazing body. So yeah, yeah.
01:10:07:02 - 01:10:28:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. I feel like we've already covered a little bit of, of undernutrition in over nutrition. But in general, you know, I think, you know, I just did have some stats here. It was like two thirds of all US deaths associated were essentially due to some form of diet, you know, I mean, obviously, you can't attribute it 100% to it because there's a lot of different things.
01:10:28:23 - 01:10:56:14
Speaker 1
But I think in general, there it stands at about 60% of of death in the U.S. And I'm sure this applies to a lot of other places as well, too. It is a factor of poor not eating well, the sedentary. And I know that doesn't 100% partake to the athletic community, I guess. But yeah, that's a really interesting one and something that I thought about here with just reading recent stats on the amount of sugar consumption.
01:10:57:10 - 01:11:21:11
Speaker 1
You know, I was wondering what your thoughts on sugar consumption are because obviously the rules, there's so many caveats here. The rules don't necessarily apply. Like if you're killing your knee and you can go run 40 kilometers, like it's nothing for breakfast, you go run 200 kilometer races, then the sugar content you're consuming is just being used to replenish glycogen stores continuously.
01:11:22:16 - 01:11:28:02
Speaker 1
And so I'm kind of wondering what your thought process on that is for sugar consumption as an athlete?
01:11:28:07 - 01:11:55:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, you touched on it a bit already where you said, you know, this isn't necessarily as relevant to an athletic population. You know, like these stats that we hear are primarily for people who are already sedentary, already probably sick, maybe taking medication. So in our athletic community, we're already a step ahead because we do have this emphasis on fitness and nutrition.
01:11:55:02 - 01:12:28:06
Speaker 2
But with sugar, as far as that is concerned, I also feel similarly about that just because I think we hear, you know, things like, okay, sugars, bad salt in excess is bad, cholesterol is bad. Like all these things that they say, I say they collectively just propaganda maybe a quote finger quotes. Yeah but I feel like there's a lot of misinformation because when we as athletes, people who are consistently training or performing these activities, we think, oh, well, this applies to me too.
01:12:28:06 - 01:12:56:06
Speaker 2
But realistically, sugar is not inherently bad and this is especially true for athletes. It can be used and emphasized as an asset, it could be used as a tool. And this is kind of where like if you think about sports nutrition and basic nutrition as like a Venn diagram, they sort of meet in the middle, but ultimately could have a bag of gummy bears for sports nutrition, and you probably wouldn't have that for breakfast on a normal given day for basic nutrition.
01:12:56:06 - 01:13:17:19
Speaker 2
But having something like that, you know, we talk about energy systems, but predominant energy source substrate to support those two anaerobic systems is going to be carbs. So Having those quickly available to your body doesn't have to then convert it from its storage form. It's just a quicker source to be right in your blood, to be able to use that immediately.
01:13:17:19 - 01:13:19:15
Speaker 2
So it is a tool, I think.
01:13:20:20 - 01:13:41:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think the biggest thing for sugar for me is timing. It's all about when you're eating it and you know, the big thing is you got to think about what it's being used for. Like you just said, it's used as an immediate food or immediate energy source. And so if you're a bunch of sugar before you go to sleep, your body has nothing to do with it.
01:13:41:05 - 01:13:58:10
Speaker 1
And so it's going to be turned to fat. And so that's where you kind of like it's a kind of the danger zone, at least my understanding, for carbs in general, and especially sugar. And right before a workout or mid workout or directly after a workout, even in the morning, you wake up like those are great times for carbs is a great time.
01:13:58:10 - 01:14:05:20
Speaker 1
Absolutely. To eat sugar is to consume it then and just paying attention to like when you're consuming your your carbs.
01:14:05:20 - 01:14:33:07
Speaker 2
Definitely. And like they have their place in the general diet. But I think especially around those time points that you suggested certainly would be a great, great time point. And I do have athletes, too, who will talk about the, you know, before bedtime. Is that actually bad? And that's usually in the instant when I'll say like, well, maybe don't have a naked carb, have it with something like have a protein shake or have it with another snack that might be like, Yeah.
01:14:33:15 - 01:14:35:01
Speaker 1
Sweet potato.
01:14:35:01 - 01:14:45:18
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah. Like have it in conjunction with something and you know, maybe, maybe it depends what it is to like. Like you said.
01:14:45:18 - 01:14:47:07
Speaker 1
A large blizzard. I ate the other.
01:14:50:14 - 01:14:50:16
Speaker 2
Is.
01:14:50:17 - 01:15:03:03
Speaker 1
Like 9 p.m. sitting in bed watching you so tired from this huge exercise block. I had just eaten like chicken strips and fries with like Ray, my, my partner. And I was just sitting in bed with this, like, it wasn't.
01:15:05:00 - 01:15:06:10
Speaker 2
Something like that.
01:15:07:03 - 01:15:15:03
Speaker 1
It's what I needed, I need it totally. Yeah. Consistency is a, is a factor to consistency every night.
01:15:15:22 - 01:15:18:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. It's like what are consistent is.
01:15:20:01 - 01:15:22:10
Speaker 1
It was for my glycogen stores. Okay.
01:15:22:22 - 01:15:27:02
Speaker 2
I love it. Yeah. I mean, you can love it too. It's great.
01:15:27:02 - 01:15:27:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah.
01:15:28:09 - 01:15:30:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:15:31:11 - 01:15:57:07
Speaker 1
I think this is an awesome point to start talking about diets in particular. Yeah, I think that a lot of all the stuff we covered, it's now we're, we're, we're diving into the big picture here like how does it all fit into our lives as athletes and I guess to start, do you have a particular diet that you lean towards with your clients or for yourself?
01:15:57:07 - 01:16:00:22
Speaker 1
Or is it more person specific?
01:16:01:19 - 01:16:35:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's I would say person specific for me because I think what works for one person will inevitably not work for somebody else. It kind of depends on, you know, what you grew up eating, what culturally you eat if you, you know, if if you like certain foods and not others. So I tend not to give like a, I guess a blanket diet I think would work for everybody because ultimately my belief is that the perfect diet for you is the one that is yours.
01:16:35:05 - 01:17:06:16
Speaker 2
And people kind of give me an eyeroll when I say that, but I'm like, you know, I mean, what foods do you like? What makes sense for you and your busy lifestyle? Like, you know, if you're somebody who trains twice a day and you, you know, you don't like a lot of different proteins, it's that would be tricky then to have a diet that is, you know, more meat based or, you know, if you if you only eat two meals a day.
01:17:06:16 - 01:17:32:05
Speaker 2
So it just gets tricky when say like specific diets are great because it really does depend on the person, the athlete, their genetics, you know, what their goals might be. And I guess the closest thing I would say, having said all that, something closely resembling the Mediterranean diet, because I feel like that can that can cover a lot of bases for a lot of different and different types of eaters, preferential cultural foods.
01:17:32:13 - 01:17:45:04
Speaker 2
And there's not necessarily just strict labels placed on what they can and can't eat. There's just a lot of variety there. So that's probably what I tend to lean towards without actually calling it that.
01:17:45:22 - 01:17:59:14
Speaker 1
Okay, now I'm not with that particular diet. Is that more of just like a an array of the types of food that people in the Mediterranean area eat? Or is it it just the distribution, distribution of macronutrient or timing of of the time in your eating?
01:18:00:02 - 01:18:31:22
Speaker 2
I think it's a bit of both. Like originally when that was coined, it's probably what people in the Mediterranean area were eating, but now it's become more synonymous with lots of protein sources, typically lean protein sources, whole grains, legumes, colorful fruits and vegetables, fats and oils, nuts and seeds, dairy products. And then one of the things that they say is like sweets, treats are present but not emphasized.
01:18:31:22 - 01:18:52:09
Speaker 2
So it's it's kind of like a balancing act between all the different food groups, making sure you're just touching on every area because, you know, a lot of people will exclude, let's say, whole grains and beans and they'll tend to eat those, but they'll eat others. Whereas this gives you that really good base of all of those nutrients.
01:18:52:22 - 01:18:56:17
Speaker 1
It sounds super similar to the paleo diet, is that right?
01:18:56:17 - 01:19:06:17
Speaker 2
I think it's similar except with paleo. It tends to be more of the like specific grains and potentially certain fats and maybe I.
01:19:06:17 - 01:19:08:13
Speaker 1
Know they don't like legumes.
01:19:09:15 - 01:19:13:23
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's but I think the whole grains like.
01:19:13:23 - 01:19:19:03
Speaker 1
Oatmeal and like sweet potatoes and stuff are all good. But for some reason they're like no legumes.
01:19:19:12 - 01:19:36:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. I feel like a lot of people who or at least when I tried Paleo for quite some time and I really it but I like beans. So like a lot of people who may tend to like paleo, maybe they struggle to digest beans. That's that's their.
01:19:36:04 - 01:19:38:04
Speaker 1
Argument is that beans are hard to digest.
01:19:38:17 - 01:19:52:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. For some which is again for some the dilemma isolation. Well yeah, people might actually benefit from beans for as a lot of people maybe maybe don't just depending on who's doing it and why.
01:19:53:11 - 01:20:09:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think the thing that's really good mandatory right is, is when you are I guess pre as well or at least the principles that I think of United here too is when you have a good variety, you're going to be assured, A, that you're not necessarily going to get really sick and bored of what you're eating, right?
01:20:09:23 - 01:20:11:01
Speaker 2
Totally. Yeah.
01:20:11:07 - 01:20:31:15
Speaker 1
And then be as you have that variety generally, different foods have different, you know, micro nutrients, you kind of more short to make sure you're actually getting a healthy balance of all those micro nutrients that are required to facilitate helping those those necessary body processes that you need to do. Right?
01:20:31:15 - 01:20:33:06
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Or at least, yeah.
01:20:34:03 - 01:20:52:09
Speaker 1
I think for when I think of diets, I like to think of it kind of from a climbing basis. You know, you could have some and say, okay, well, what's the right anchor for this situation? And there is no right anchor principle. It's a principle based system. Right. Okay. And so for the diet, you can go to a principle based system.
01:20:52:09 - 01:21:17:09
Speaker 1
It does it have all that the the macro and the micronutrients. Can you be happy and do it like is it making you feel good? Is it providing the energy you need to perform? Like those are kind of just the principles you adhere to. Are you not deficient in anything? And then if you're adhering to those things and you're feeling good, then that's kind of the principles that you want to adhere to, or at least that's my thought process behind it.
01:21:17:09 - 01:21:49:15
Speaker 1
Right. But I'm sorry, I've lost my right. Sorry I disconnected my mike. But I think I think something that's interesting that I'd like to talk to you is or talk about here is, is, you know, vegetarian diets. Like what what are some of those drawbacks potentially, you know, there's I've tried vegetarian and vegan diet for myself and I've enjoyed some things about them a lot.
01:21:49:20 - 01:22:11:09
Speaker 1
And other things have had some drawbacks. And I think classically some people can think of that there is micronutrients that you can be deficient in. So as as a vegetarian or vegan who's listening to this, what are the things that maybe are great about the diet for them and what are some of the things that maybe they want to look out for a little bit?
01:22:11:10 - 01:22:46:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there is certainly a whole truth to the fact that you can be a vegan or vegetarian and get what you need both macronutrient wise, calorie wise and then also the the micronutrients that you would need as well. But I do think it takes a bit of planning and so if you're someone who maybe, you know, you don't really have the time to plan, you struggle to understand the foods that you need to eat, maybe you're, let's say, someone who doesn't like those foods.
01:22:46:20 - 01:23:14:20
Speaker 2
You know, I've heard the vegans who are like, Oh, I don't like beans. I'm like, What do you eat? Like, that's such a big price for you. So yeah, I think it depends on, you know, what is feasible for the person foods that they like. Certainly I think to if you know, like younger athletes who are vegan or vegetarian, that makes me a bit nervous, just not because it's impossible but because they are still growing and developing.
01:23:14:20 - 01:23:43:23
Speaker 2
And if you're not getting certain nutrients from foods and not planning conscientiously to incorporate those in a vegetarian plant based diet, then that's not awesome. So I do think, though, that within these two diets there are a few things to watch out for and that's certainly protein just simply because know plant based food is, a complete source of protein with all of the essential amino acids.
01:23:43:23 - 02:18:43:17
Speaker 2
So it does require a bit of planning to combine certain plant based proteins together, make sure they each other.