22 | Dirtbag Rehab & Mind Tools w/ ACMG Apprentice Guide Catherine Pitura

Summary

In today’s episode, we sit down with Catherine Pitura an ACMG apprentice rock guide and the founder of Mind Tools. Catherine as she puts it “is just a person with a big climbing experience”. Like so many of us, she fell quickly in love with the sport of climbing, but, unlike many of us, she had the opportunity to live the dirtbag dream. For nine years she lived and breathed climbing. During this time, she became a capable trad leader and certified apprentice rock guide. Towards the end of this nine-year climbing cycle, she started to feel that there were things about her life and herself that had been neglected. That there might be more to life than being fully immersed in climbing. So she began her dirtbag rehab, where she journeyed back into “everyday life” and worked on exploring the intricacies of the human mind. Now, she has combined her experience as a climber and the knowledge she obtained through her dirtbag rehab into a business called “The Conscious Climber” and developed an innovative product named “Mind Tools”. In our conversation, we dive deep into what it's like to return to life after living the dirtbag dream, the effect that climbing has on the mind, the relationship between our conscious and subconscious minds, and finally how we can use mind tools to help us stay present, calm, and collected while in the vertical world.

Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out.

Contact us:
IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

References

Cody Bradford Memorial

Purchase Mind Tools HERE

Mind Tool Reviews

https://www.vernonmorningstar.com/business/mind-over-matter-vernon-entrepreneur-creates-motivational-rock-climbing-gear/

https://gripped.com/events/watch-free-talk-by-mind-tools-for-climbers-on-april-21/

https://gripped.com/gear/mind-tools-aim-to-keep-you-psyched/

Follow Catherine Pitura: @climbingcovers @theconsciousclimber

Transcript

00:00:00:14 - 00:00:23:22
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:27:23 - 00:00:54:21
Speaker 1
Hey everyone. As I'm sure you are now aware, it is with a heavy heart that we mourn the loss of Cody Bradford this week. His death came as quite a surprise to everyone. I'm pretty sure we had him on the podcast only a couple of months ago and nothing would have prepared me or Max for this. This sudden loss.

00:00:55:12 - 00:01:24:06
Speaker 1
And I feel like I just wanted to create a space for his remembrance because he had such an impact on everyone in the climbing community. There is a Reddit thread memorial that I will post a link to where you can go and share your personal experience with him and how he affected your life. So please, please go do that and just spread the love and and show just how much he meant to us.

00:01:24:22 - 00:02:00:17
Speaker 1
For me personally, I reached out to him very early on in my climbing career as a budding trad climber, just full of Stoke and full of questions. And he was just so very kind and open to chatting with me and forming some sort of pseudo Tesla mentor esque relationship with him over the years. We even had a couple of phone calls with him about being a guide, and he has always just been so open and so willing to just give himself to to everyone around him in terms of climbing knowledge and sharing.

00:02:00:17 - 00:02:26:16
Speaker 1
Stoke So that's how he he affected my life. Such a great guy is such a huge loss for the climbing community. And yeah, I just wanted to create a little space for him. So maybe just a let's have a quick moment of silence for for Cody Bradford.

00:02:31:02 - 00:02:57:23
Speaker 1
All right. Thank you so much, Cody Bradford. You will be missed. Okay. In today's episode, we sit down with Kathryn Tura, an HMG Apprentice rock guide, and the founder of Mind Tools. Kathryn, as she puts it, is just a person with a big climbing experience. She, like so many of us, fell quickly in love with the sport of climbing.

00:02:58:09 - 00:03:26:22
Speaker 1
But unlike many of us, she had the opportunity to live the dirt bag dream. For nine years she lived and breathed climbing. During this time, she developed herself into a capable triad leader and a certified apprentice rock guide. But towards the end of this nine year climbing cycle, she started to feel like there were things about her life and herself that had been neglected, that there might be more to life than being fully immersed in climbing.

00:03:27:17 - 00:03:56:20
Speaker 1
So she began her dirt bag rehab, where she journeyed back into everyday life and worked on exploring the intricacies of the human mind. Now she has combined her experience as a climber and the knowledge she obtained through her dirt bag rehab into a business called the conscious Climber and has developed an innovative product named Mind Tools. In our conversation, we dove deep into what it's like to return to life after living the dirt bag dream.

00:03:57:15 - 00:04:21:11
Speaker 1
The effect that climbing has on the mind. The relationship between our conscious and subconscious minds. And finally, how we can use mind's tools to help us stay present, calm and collected while in the vertical world.

00:04:26:06 - 00:04:29:21
Speaker 1
Katherine, you reached out to Max, right? That's how this conversation started here.

00:04:30:04 - 00:04:38:15
Speaker 2
I did. I like to take action. Sometimes I get the inspiration to just take it, make a move. And this was the move I chose.

00:04:38:23 - 00:04:39:19
Speaker 3
I love that.

00:04:40:00 - 00:04:40:13
Speaker 1
I love that.

00:04:41:02 - 00:04:47:01
Speaker 4
Yeah. You're the first guest that ever reached out to us, actually. So normally it's just networking through, like, Instagram and other places.

00:04:47:23 - 00:04:48:10
Speaker 3
So, yeah.

00:04:48:16 - 00:04:53:07
Speaker 1
So all of you out there, if you have an awesome story and you feel like you want to say something, please reach out to us.

00:04:53:14 - 00:05:13:13
Speaker 4
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. So generally we kind of just go through like a process of obviously we just do like some brief introductions and stuff. And I think for the audience, like, they know who Kyle and I are. So it probably makes more sense to kind of, you know, start off with you like, you know, like go go through your name and a little bit about yourself and we can kind of go from there.

00:05:14:01 - 00:05:48:10
Speaker 2
Sure. Well, my name's Katherine. I'm just a person with a big climbing experience, you know, like, in in like part of me connecting is just because I like what you guys are doing about, you know, keeping it real and bringing the human aspects to the the the culture in the community. And so, yeah, like I just basically spent all my twenties climbing like full time and there's just no one I can really talk about my experiences with that are really going to get it.

00:05:48:11 - 00:06:24:19
Speaker 2
Like, like you guys in like your audience and things like that. So I love sharing because there is so much that we learn in it, right? We're fully immersed in nature and and like and climbing is, is just it's epic. There's nothing really else like it. So anyways, so yeah, I climb for a long time. I went through some guy training and, and got to teach like in Squamish and Penticton and stuff and I've kind of moved away from it a little bit now, but I've been focusing on, you know, my product, my tools and things like that.

00:06:24:19 - 00:06:45:02
Speaker 2
Not that that's a total plug, but that's just what it changed to, right? My, my focus changed from full climbing to sort of yeah. Product development and things like that, which I got really excited and passionate about, just like I do with, you know, all the things I get into. So, yeah, that's pretty much me.

00:06:45:11 - 00:06:47:04
Speaker 1
How did you come across climbing?

00:06:48:04 - 00:07:20:22
Speaker 2
I was introduced to it in high school when I was in this program called Earth Quest in the Okanagan in B.C.. And yeah, we got to we were introduced to all these different mountain sports in as in a school based program like Telemark skiing, cross-country skiing, like on glaciers and stuff. And we kayak the Golf Island, you know, rode our bikes everywhere, biked, I mean, and ran in like all these kind of things.

00:07:20:22 - 00:08:00:20
Speaker 2
And and climbing was one of the sports that they introduced us to. And like I remember being a shy kid, but for some reason when they asked who wanted to go first and the repel, I was like me, like, I just like was all about it right from the start. So that was my introduction. But I didn't get back into it till like so I was like 16 then and then I got back into it when I moved to Vancouver, which is like the big city, and I was about 20, about 20 ish when I got reintroduced to the sport and that's when I really like just did the full obsessed mode cycle of my

00:08:00:20 - 00:08:01:13
Speaker 2
life with it.

00:08:02:01 - 00:08:19:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's super cool that you had that little brief introduction early on and then were able to revisit again in a new light. I've personally not heard that kind of story before where there's like a little bit of exposure and then a full hiatus. So that's that's pretty interesting. Did you start climbing outside right away on the second chapter?

00:08:19:19 - 00:08:56:08
Speaker 2
I met a guy at that time in Vancouver named Jesse, and we connected like, you know, we would just go out for dinners and things like that. But then we soon got into climbing and yeah, I'm pretty sure was in the summer and I think we went from Vancouver straight up to Squamish and he was already getting lessons at that time with like Sonny Trotter, whomever was like teaching at the time and we just so he was like, Jesse was getting super into it and you know, he would always just invite me along as, you know, partners do, right?

00:08:56:08 - 00:09:13:16
Speaker 2
You just it's a it's a fantastic sport for whatever kind of relationship dynamic you've got going on. But yeah, so I think I started outdoors in that fall and then climbed indoors like all winter and then it just pretty much took off from there.

00:09:13:20 - 00:09:20:02
Speaker 1
Did you from that point, super. When did you commit to being a dirtbag or.

00:09:20:02 - 00:09:20:11
Speaker 2
Well.

00:09:20:17 - 00:09:25:20
Speaker 1
I mean, take that take that phrase how you will. It's seems like the the coin's term these days.

00:09:25:20 - 00:09:26:21
Speaker 4
I think it's a compliment.

00:09:28:03 - 00:09:55:09
Speaker 2
Dirtbag. It's like to me, it's like you're all of a sudden all your focus goes into the progression. Your progression within the sport, right? Like, yes, dirt bags, like a state of mind where you're just looking out one particular window in that window looks at climbing. Exactly. So like, yeah, I think once you try it like for the people that it really connects with, it's just so stimulate, right?

00:09:55:09 - 00:10:25:10
Speaker 2
Like climbing is so it's it's a puzzle. It's totally 100% engaging. It's like it's working your mind, it's working your body, it's working, it's social. Like everything about it I craved and I was just eating it up, right? Like, I just fully just, I was soaking it all in. And so, yeah, I think I just I went dirt bag mode pretty, pretty quick.

00:10:26:06 - 00:10:28:19
Speaker 4
Do you consider yourself more introverted or extroverted.

00:10:29:21 - 00:10:30:10
Speaker 2
Introverted?

00:10:30:11 - 00:10:33:13
Speaker 4
What was you say? Do you consider yourself more like introvert, introverted? Okay.

00:10:33:14 - 00:10:34:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:10:34:19 - 00:10:48:18
Speaker 4
I feel like more climbers are introverted in general because there's like some solace in spending time in the mountains and, like, being alone and constantly projecting and devoting all of your time to this kind of craft. But I could be wrong. Like, Kyle, do you consider yourself introverted or extroverted?

00:10:49:21 - 00:10:53:16
Speaker 1
Mm. I'd say, like, at my core, I'm an introvert for sure.

00:10:55:10 - 00:11:00:05
Speaker 2
I feel like I'm I'm very social too, and like, I love people and things like that, but it's.

00:11:00:05 - 00:11:01:03
Speaker 3
A skill of.

00:11:01:14 - 00:11:02:03
Speaker 2
Not being.

00:11:02:03 - 00:11:02:14
Speaker 3
Social.

00:11:02:19 - 00:11:05:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, for me it's a skill. It's not natural. It's a skill.

00:11:06:13 - 00:11:07:07
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

00:11:08:01 - 00:11:09:12
Speaker 1
It's something I have to practice.

00:11:09:19 - 00:11:10:21
Speaker 4
Yeah, I would say yeah.

00:11:12:01 - 00:11:42:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. But yes I think that's why it really speaks to introverts climbing because it is, it's you're having a it is, it's so internal like it is it's your, you know, the way the movement is, the way that you're looking through a crux sequence, a lot of it is very intuitive, but it's balanced because it's also very logical when you're learning, you know, anchors and all the like, the technical stuff, the rock rescue, all that kind of rope work is very logical, right?

00:11:42:14 - 00:12:05:17
Speaker 2
You know, right brained or whatever it is, the male side. But it's also very intuitive in terms of the movement, in terms of, um, route finding, in terms of choosing your objective or whatever. The case building is really intuitive I think too. So yeah, it's, I think, I think it speaks to introverts just because there's a whole it's very lively in your inner world, I would say.

00:12:06:22 - 00:12:09:03
Speaker 1
What is your experience with Flow State?

00:12:09:16 - 00:12:44:09
Speaker 2
For me to get into a flow state, it's like maybe this is a more sort of advanced version that I found for myself later on. But like I need to make sure my life is in order and I don't have a lot of emotional or internal baggage going on, like when I feel like at peace with my life, that things are in order and I'm climbing, I'm better able to get in a flow state because I'm really present and I don't have like things in the way of my, my, my presence in my attention.

00:12:46:03 - 00:13:10:22
Speaker 2
But yeah, flow state is amazing because when you're climbing, because you're in alignment, there's no interfering. It's going on. You know where you want to go and there's no like static or noise in the head or anything like that. And you're just like and you're just feeling all the aliveness of all the nature all around you. And like, I love that.

00:13:11:12 - 00:13:12:04
Speaker 2
I love that.

00:13:12:14 - 00:13:35:22
Speaker 4
How do you feel about using like, ah, how do you feel is probably the wrong way to phrase it? But so for me sometimes I, I fight with the process of like climbing is, is both like a pleasure, a pursuit, but also an escape. So through, through suffering and being so present and climbing, it takes me away from all those things.

00:13:35:22 - 00:13:53:15
Speaker 4
And sometimes I don't even have to answer the question. But climbing is both a pursuit and an escape. And I'm just wondering for you, was there a period where because you're talking about like flow state and and mindfulness, there essentially is there like a period where you you climbing.

00:13:53:15 - 00:13:54:23
Speaker 2
More as a family?

00:13:54:23 - 00:13:58:05
Speaker 3
I know you like that.

00:13:58:05 - 00:14:29:03
Speaker 2
That's like I believe that we're always learning something, like I say it on a soul level, like we we on like we we come and we're learning something, right? So when you're really into something, it's because you're learning, but also that simultaneously, yes, there is that escape. So I could just say in my experience with when I was a hardcore, you know, dirt bag and that was like a full years.

00:14:29:10 - 00:15:00:13
Speaker 2
Wow. I was learning a lot that you know, that's what I call conscious climbing was the lessons that I learned from the experience. But I had to apply what I learned to climbing to my life. So I wasn't escaping because life is going on all the time and it's very important that we tend to everything in life. Granted, I really think there's a lot of value in the dirt bag period, because truly we're learning a lot.

00:15:01:18 - 00:15:26:14
Speaker 2
I think the bridge for me. So I'm not escaping life is is harvesting the lessons like like the determination, the courage, the perseverance, the inspiration, all the things that climbing like the essence of it. To me, I apply that to everything in my life. So I'm not escaping life because again, if all your is only going into climbing, it's okay.

00:15:26:22 - 00:15:38:16
Speaker 2
But think other things are going to kind of, you know, wither, wither a little bit because they're not getting your same attention. So it's all good. I mean, life's a balancing act, right?

00:15:38:16 - 00:15:40:00
Speaker 3
But absolutely.

00:15:40:15 - 00:16:05:14
Speaker 2
But yeah, I found my my eight years was an escape and I actually lagged behind in a lot of skills when I when that bubble was burst, so to speak, because, you know, like I like I, like I said, I had to get like basically house trained again. I had to like merge back into the work world. You know, I kind of had a unique experience.

00:16:05:14 - 00:16:41:10
Speaker 2
Maybe some people don't go as hard as like or as immersive as is as I did in that in that experience. But, but yeah, yeah. It's a, it's a balance. I just say like back to the flow state thing, like just I think the best flow you're going to find is when you know that you've taken care of your duties in your life that like, you know, things are managed in like you're not like shirking responsibility just to like escape to the mountains, but like taking what the mountains has for you and bringing it to everything in your life that makes sense.

00:16:42:05 - 00:16:56:09
Speaker 1
You've explained a lot of the kind of prose like what? Were there maybe a lesson or two that you you learned from your time while you were there that you brought back to your normal life? I missed two specific lessons from climbing.

00:16:56:17 - 00:16:57:00
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:16:57:01 - 00:17:05:03
Speaker 1
Like your eight years you referenced like you that dedication and stuff. Like are there actual like relatable things that you noticed that you brought from the sport to your life now?

00:17:05:23 - 00:17:31:00
Speaker 2
MM Yeah, I think it's the mindset, you know, like when you're climbing in and I know that you guys, all your experience with lead climbing and everything like that, you really develop a certain head that can that you can face adversity or tough things with, you know, you're going to make the moves and you're going to get to the summit or you're going to get through it.

00:17:31:00 - 00:18:05:18
Speaker 2
So I think particularly it's just the mindset like I because like I said, when I left climbing as a dirt bag, I kind of feel like I was at the bottom and I had to like climb my way through employment, through different types of things to like actually get my life like above water again. Because to be honest, as a dirt bag, when you're really living in your truck and you're really fucking doing that life, like you're kind of like low key step away from like poverty style welfare.

00:18:05:18 - 00:18:36:09
Speaker 2
I don't know how to describe it. Like your home. Not really. Yeah. Homeless, like, so. To to to as to get your life going, the engine in your life going again. And I mean, like, I'm talking home life and everything. Like that. To me, to make those moves to transition, I really had to use my mindset in the mindset that was developed in climbing and just knowing that I'm going to like move through these things and no matter how like kind of freaky they are, just don't get freaked out.

00:18:36:19 - 00:18:37:07
Speaker 2
You know.

00:18:37:21 - 00:18:47:08
Speaker 1
Before you made the switch to being no longer a dirt bag, what kind of climber were you like? What kind of grades were you climbing? Multi-Picture outs are you leading? Are you soloing kind of round yourself out a little bit.

00:18:47:22 - 00:19:19:12
Speaker 2
Okay, not soloing. Maybe I did a little bit of that, especially in the early years when you're really naive and you don't know. But I multipage trad is my favorite, you know, I just I like, like longer days, longer routes, things like that. Just grade wise, like, uh, I think 511 plus maybe Trad was like my hardest leading are leading that.

00:19:19:15 - 00:19:20:22
Speaker 1
So that's awesome.

00:19:21:05 - 00:19:21:16
Speaker 3
So good.

00:19:21:18 - 00:20:06:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, well, I mean, that's climbing lots, right? Like yeah. Still and then 12 plus sport was also is kind of like the where it got with that. Yeah but you know I always had fear that fear and like that was like something that, you know, I think that we all face every time we tie in, right? Like it's like and so yeah, that was always like my passion like was, you know, sort of with where I developed with things was like, you know, how to, how to sort of speak to the fear part because I mean, that's such a tough nut to crack, but that was kind of a passion of mine was just

00:20:06:22 - 00:20:11:15
Speaker 2
sort of breaking that down a little bit, understanding it. But in there's a lot of factors.

00:20:11:22 - 00:20:22:22
Speaker 1
You had said that were in reference to this fear that it started to kind of cripple you as a climber. When when did that start happening? And and why do you think it started to manifest itself into your into your mind?

00:20:23:16 - 00:21:11:00
Speaker 2
Well, I think, to be honest, I was living my life had a large fear component to it, and that it was manifesting in my body and in my mind and in my emotions because I was living something that had a lot of fear in it. I think my partner's lifestyle really contributed to that. I was really picking up on a lot of stuff that he might have had going on behind the scenes, and it was just like, I think I knew that I needed to face that fear and make changes in my life because I could feel it like, you know, a lot and so, yeah, I think I think that's how I would describe

00:21:11:00 - 00:21:11:07
Speaker 2
that.

00:21:12:00 - 00:21:34:11
Speaker 4
I think that's an interesting thing to chase down is like fear and how do you know? You know, I think Arlo Ehlinger describes it as like there's two types of fear. Like one is illusory and one is like real. And in climbing, obviously so much about it is just mastery of fear. But how do you know what is the illusory fear and what isn't like?

00:21:34:17 - 00:21:47:14
Speaker 4
How was that manifesting for you? Like in that time period where you capable of really dissociating? You're like, Something's wrong and I know it's because of X or was it kind of more subtle and just like you didn't know what was going on?

00:21:48:06 - 00:22:15:20
Speaker 2
Well, climbing so interesting because I find fear in danger are so close right in not all cases, but sometimes the line between fear and danger, you know, fear is subjective. It's an emotional thing. It's in your own head. It's differs from person to person. Danger is objective. It's like the rock's going to going to fall on you. It just is like whether it's an avalanche or it's like, you know, whatever the case is.

00:22:15:20 - 00:22:57:05
Speaker 2
So but I find fear in danger or like breaking a limb like that. Like, you know, like I know both you guys with the ankles. It's like that's like, you know, we're really self the self-preservation instinct when you're lead climbing is and strong you know we don't want to get hurt we don't want to injure ourselves but internally, you know, like but still, you know, when you're when you're climbing, you can tell or at least I could tell what was the fear of the root and the fear of the sport versus the fear I was carrying, the emotional baggage I was carrying from my my life.

00:22:57:05 - 00:23:24:08
Speaker 4
Yeah. Like I think on this topic of fear, like something I'm experiencing personally in my life right now is I'm trying to really engage and get back into climbing and get back to where I was and push through it. And I've really almost done it. But for myself the night before, for example, like a multi pitch, I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty in the zone and engaged and very, very stimulated in a way that I might not have used to have been.

00:23:24:15 - 00:23:43:03
Speaker 4
And then the morning of I'll do like a lot of meditation and I usually listen to like the rock where you're way on an audio book and I'll get there. And I know for the first couple of pitches I'm, I'm quite like irritable and it's almost like, why am I, why am I climbing? You know, I'm there's so much stress and so much going on and things almost feel wrong.

00:23:43:11 - 00:24:25:11
Speaker 4
And I think part of that is, is, is fear from the actual aspect of like climbing is dangerous. But another portion of that is, is two different things. One is the fear of, okay, I cannot damage myself ever again in the way that I have already. And then the second one is more of this ego driven fear where it's like, I'm so I'm so mortified and concerned at the ramifications of, you know, if I injure myself again, just how how dumb and insignificant and terrible I will feel if that makes sense.

00:24:25:11 - 00:24:44:22
Speaker 4
Right. Publicly having to face the fact that I've made this mistake again and hurt myself. So I don't know. I think that's that's something that I've been really struggling with lately, is is trying to dissociate those kind of things. And it's been hard for me to know. I know that in a moment I can really turn it on and just push through that.

00:24:45:03 - 00:25:06:04
Speaker 4
But I'm having a lot of doubt knowing, should I, you know, is that me just pushing through it to try and prove to myself something or is this actually the right thing to do if that makes sense? That's something that I've really been struggling with lately, and it's something I don't actually fully know how to grapple with, if that makes sense.

00:25:07:03 - 00:25:30:04
Speaker 1
I think the funny thing is about that is that that fear and stuff can be dangerous within itself because it's taking you away from the focus of performing and you know, like you're afraid of injuring yourself. Like I feel the same thing leading. I'm just like, Oh, I do not want to mess up, but you have to like to lead trad, you have to almost like block that completely out.

00:25:30:04 - 00:25:36:17
Speaker 1
And it's like this fine dance of like, am I really under control or am I not? And so, like, I don't really know sometimes anymore.

00:25:37:09 - 00:26:06:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's, it's interesting because like, first of all, like, I totally understand, but like in a different way. But, um, in my experience too, it's like we, we can't rush our healing process, you know, with any time we have a traumatic experience, even in the same with related to climbing or within anything, it's like the healing process takes time, right?

00:26:06:04 - 00:26:42:11
Speaker 2
Even for the psychologic wounds to to like, to heal and to come back like different or stronger, and it will come back different and stronger. But so I think allowing ourselves to just kind of like give the compassion of like time just to allow that to transform, you know, I think that's one thing. Another thing that I just find interesting, like you sort of mentioned like dissociate or like when I was climbing sometimes or sort of as you were describing to Kyle, it's kind of like a the fear.

00:26:42:11 - 00:27:07:23
Speaker 2
We almost suppress it and override it. I had to do a whole lot of unlearning about that because as a climber for so long in the suffer faced vibe, right, is so much a suppression and override how you feel. And like in my time away from climbing, which is almost been another whole cycle, I call a cycle almost nine years.

00:27:08:04 - 00:27:40:23
Speaker 2
So I basically climbed a cycle and then I've almost taken a cycle, really a way to do a lot of inner work, a lot of healing and things like that. And I had to learn how to like on suppress my emotions. I had no idea what I felt at work at any time, like, you know, so it was like, you know, so I had to learn to actually understand what I felt because everything had been so shoved down in order to override it, push through and like succeed, if that makes sense.

00:27:40:23 - 00:27:43:06
Speaker 2
So totally. Yeah, it's, it's interesting.

00:27:43:21 - 00:28:04:19
Speaker 4
I forget. Absolutely make sense what you're talking about, the suppressing of emotions. And I, I know for myself, I found climbing and really got into it particularly I got into endurance sports and then climbing a little bit like on I'm then really fallen into climbing. But it was right after my mother had passed away from cancer. And there's a funny meme that I saw.

00:28:04:19 - 00:28:44:18
Speaker 4
I was on Instagram of some like picture of a caveman and was like me climb rock, rock, make mad, mean head, voice go away. And it's really, really just like a very simple mean but on it's very, very true in some ways that and you can kind of almost just pursue climbing and avoid your emotional state or your fear or these issues and completely suppress them because you're so entrenched in the task at hand that you almost I don't know if Nirvana would be the right thing or some state of meditation where you just all the worries of the world is completely disappear.

00:28:44:22 - 00:29:05:18
Speaker 4
And that was back to my beginning point of like escapism, right? Like, is it an escape or is it a pursuit? And I feel like it's a bit of both. But I think there's or at least in my estimation and, you know, my thought processes climbing appeals to a lot of people because it is kind of an escape in some sense, right?

00:29:05:18 - 00:29:25:02
Speaker 4
Like you, you're just so present in the moment that you you can suppress everything and just focus on the task at hand. And then you also happen, or at least I also happen to find, you know, the the beauty of the world. Unbelievable. And all these experience is so meaningful, like its purpose to me and it makes me feel whole and feel amazing.

00:29:25:08 - 00:29:33:02
Speaker 4
So it's, it's kind of facilitating an emotional need through, through physical means, if that makes sense.

00:29:33:15 - 00:29:55:06
Speaker 1
To your point, Max, I think what Catherine had said before in terms of escapism versus a pursuit, it really depends on how you're living in your life outside of climbing. Right. It's like, you know, if you if you aren't if you're, like, procrastinating or you're like not doing something, you know, and maybe your subconscious or your deep part of yourself knows you need to be doing and you're climbing.

00:29:55:06 - 00:30:12:10
Speaker 1
It becomes kind of this escapism. But if you have like all your ducks in a row, you're like feeding the rest and areas of your life that need to be fulfilled. And you climb and experience becomes like a a pursuit and a benefit rather than an escapism. At least that's kind of what it sounded like Catherine was saying before.

00:30:12:11 - 00:30:12:19
Speaker 1
Mm hmm.

00:30:13:05 - 00:30:38:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. And and and, you know, the magic of it, too, is literally is the rock, it's the nature. It's like, yeah, you know, if you're there is an absolute medicine and truth to being immersed in in nature and in the rock. Like, I'm holding a rock right now because it has like an energy to it in a in a vibe in like it's so stable, right?

00:30:38:19 - 00:31:12:09
Speaker 2
The rock is like earth, it's stable, it's immovable. And I think for me, with times of like certainly in your young twenties, I didn't know how the world worked. I didn't know really anything. So it's like I think the rock like really became this, like, symbol of stability. And then also I'm actually tuning into the vibration of like the natural world, which, you know, it like totally renews you when you're just getting, you know, they call it like Forest Bath or whatever it is.

00:31:12:09 - 00:31:29:06
Speaker 2
Like you're just getting the whole vibe of nature and then and that's a healing and that's a teaching and that's everything in itself. So yeah, you can never really define these things or categorize, put it in a box because it's like all things at once.

00:31:29:06 - 00:31:29:14
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:31:30:02 - 00:31:47:04
Speaker 1
Totally. Sort of like like bring this back to your transferring from being a climber to plugging back into this life. What kind of job pursuits did you search in the beginning or did you go straight to guiding right out of this?

00:31:47:18 - 00:32:08:16
Speaker 2
You know, my experience coming out of high school wasn't one of empowerment. It was actually really a disempowerment. Like, I came out of high school being like, man, how am I going to survive this world? I didn't get a is. They told me that I'm like, you know, that I can't make it essentially. Like I didn't get taught grades.

00:32:08:16 - 00:32:34:14
Speaker 2
So like, what does that mean? I'm not going to survive. I'm not going to succeed in this world. It really, really damaged my self-esteem, my my, like, belief in myself and everything else. So you know, when I came out of school, I went to college. Then I was like falling asleep in college because I would just chose some random thing to do because that's what I thought I should do anyways.

00:32:34:14 - 00:32:35:22
Speaker 4
What did you choose out of curiosity?

00:32:36:04 - 00:32:41:01
Speaker 2
Physiotherapy, something or other? Like, yeah.

00:32:41:20 - 00:32:42:16
Speaker 4
It's like my dream.

00:32:42:16 - 00:32:46:17
Speaker 3
Where it was like, I'm so offended right now. Well.

00:32:48:13 - 00:33:11:18
Speaker 2
For what it's worth, like, I just. I love the idea of going to school later in life, like college or anything like that, like to all the young kids, because I'm going to be working in the school district coming up. I love teenagers. I love young kids. And like I would just like to my younger self to it be like, let's find out who you are, find out how the world works a little bit, find out, you know, and then go to school.

00:33:11:18 - 00:33:21:01
Speaker 2
Because like when I went to high school like 19 or whatever, it was like there was no it was just not the right time, not the right fit and all that kind of stuff.

00:33:22:02 - 00:33:23:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, totally. I can relate with that.

00:33:24:00 - 00:33:24:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. So then.

00:33:25:08 - 00:33:26:02
Speaker 4
Very relatable.

00:33:26:05 - 00:33:54:08
Speaker 2
Totally. And then that's what climbing did was help rebuild my self-esteem and help rebuild my belief in myself. Because every time you spend, every time you go through the learning process, you've empowered yourself. And so, again, it's like that same formula. You just apply it to anything. Now, once you sort of figured out the process and the formula, now it's like, you know, for where I'm at now, I'm 34.

00:33:54:20 - 00:34:15:06
Speaker 2
I just went back to school to be a teacher's assistant. Like all these kinds of different things, like simple, like humble, but it's like, I don't know, I just I feel like, again, that's kind of really the, the, the magic in like the the gifts of climbing, what it's really like what it's doing to you on a, on a deep level that you can, you know, live with.

00:34:16:03 - 00:34:17:14
Speaker 1
So you're saying you're a teacher now.

00:34:17:23 - 00:34:42:14
Speaker 2
Teacher assistant. I'm going to help the kids or assisting like that are kind of like me, like learned a little bit different. I'm very kinesthetic. That's why I loved the guide training. I loved making the anchors and all the rope stuff. Like it was just, I love getting my hands involved, but like, yeah, so I may be teacher's assistant help kids that like need a little bit of like a like that learn outside the spectrum because that's kind of like.

00:34:42:14 - 00:34:48:15
Speaker 1
And teacher's assistant like in in public school or in like an outdoor activities setting like a setting actually.

00:34:48:15 - 00:35:16:20
Speaker 2
Both in the public school. But actually, you know, I you asked how I got into climbing in it's called Earth Quest. I just went on a trip with the Earth Quest crew, and we went to Blackwood Sound Off Tofino. And so I'm going to be working in the public school, but definitely I love the outdoor like school setting and I, I believe I'll be helping work with that, that program.

00:35:17:18 - 00:35:36:23
Speaker 4
I think that's really awesome. Personally for me, you know, I, I went through high school completely lost. I was, you know, I really, really hard with what you were saying there because I did I did terrible in high school. I didn't I wasn't successful. Everything was telling me, you have to go to university. You're going to be a failure.

00:35:36:23 - 00:35:55:11
Speaker 4
All these other things. I grew up in this very affluent society and I never even graduated high school. At grade nine, I dropped out and I went to an alternate school and I actually had various youth workers, teacher assistants, people like that, who really were very inspirational to me and really, really helped me out. And, and then I never went to university.

00:35:55:11 - 00:36:17:06
Speaker 4
And then now at the age of 28 now and around 26, I did my high school equivalency. And then now I'm going to university, so I'm coming back to university later in my life. So I really, really resonate with your school, with your story. And as well, for me, I've had a similar thing with climbing a slightly later in life than you at 28 rather than your twenties.

00:36:17:06 - 00:36:39:05
Speaker 4
But it wasn't until that I, I found climbing and connected with the outdoors in that way that it really start to empower me to have to like be who I am and to have the confidence to be who I wanted to be. You know, having the success and, you know, success is relative. I'm not a pro climber or anything, but getting out in the mountains and climbing these things, it it empowered me and it made me feel confident.

00:36:39:06 - 00:36:58:03
Speaker 4
It made me feel good. And that's since that's been happening, I've really started coming into my own as a person and who I wanted to be and been able to pursue these kind of things in my life. Like I've never pursued them before. So I just I really resonate with what you said. I feel like I really I really connect with that that really similar kind of.

00:36:58:17 - 00:37:28:15
Speaker 2
In in in, you know, the outdoors is such a level playing field for students and kids and for everybody really. But like I know my time as a guide, like I'm thinking, especially when I was just single pitch instructing in school with Russ Turner, who's like a legend, like the best person of all time. And he's brought so many kids through climbing and just, you know, these school groups will come in, they'll have their social dynamics and everything like that.

00:37:29:02 - 00:37:57:07
Speaker 2
But climbing just has this way of leveling it out. Everybody supports each other and then it's all those micro winds that are self-propelled that build our esteem. So, you know, like I said, every time we send, every time we make a hard move, every time we go beyond our capacity of what we think we can do and it's totally self-propelled, that's just like a win in your own basket, like.

00:37:57:13 - 00:38:19:00
Speaker 2
And so it's just it builds you up in a good way. And that's the magic of the outdoors, right? It's our and it's our natural place, too. So you know, seeing seeing an on a tangent here, but seeing the kids in the natural setting learn through sports and being in nature, it's it's incredible. And it touches them in a really good way.

00:38:19:07 - 00:38:38:22
Speaker 1
I could I could totally imagine that. I think that there's a lot of people I think most of the stories, at least I hear, are adults that find climbing and they've had like kind of a a rough go or they've struggled with addiction or, you know, whatever their story may be. But climbing definitely seems to bring almost a cure to their lives.

00:38:39:04 - 00:38:48:07
Speaker 1
And so I think that it could be so applicable to the youth as well. And I think that's awesome that where we're starting to focus on bringing that to these people because it's it's been super helpful for some for sure.

00:38:48:08 - 00:39:14:14
Speaker 4
Also, I think society is structured to value certain things and mean, you know, like it's structured to value certain things. And there are people who don't fit inside that structure but who are very, very capable, amazing, great people. And when you're trying to play into this structure and it's completely against the way you are, the way your brain's wired, you know, like you're talking about you're a very kinesthetic learner.

00:39:14:18 - 00:39:36:05
Speaker 4
All of these things. It leaves you kind of in a state of despair, right? And so you can take people on these different mediums or these different areas and watch them excel and watch them develop and change. And it's really influential and life changing. And yeah, I would bet everybody at this table, as you know, are their own separate tables.

00:39:36:05 - 00:39:40:16
Speaker 4
Our digital table has experience. Yeah.

00:39:41:05 - 00:40:06:04
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Now, you, you, before we jump into your company, the main tools, I'm interested in talking a little bit about what happened within your mind in terms of your connection to yourself, your conscious and your subconscious mind. You know, the way I understand the human brain is we have this conscious mind that is aware of what's going on around us.

00:40:06:10 - 00:40:29:16
Speaker 1
It's performing the daily tasks. It's but ultimately it's receiving information from the subconscious. And that is kind of what ultimately defines our personality, how we react to the world. And it's our job to try to connect the two parts of our mind in order to be fully aware of of who we are. How do you relate to that kind of understanding of the mind?

00:40:29:16 - 00:40:37:14
Speaker 1
And it seems, from what I've read, that you kind of went through a process of connecting to part of yourself. You want to kind of tell us a little bit about that experience.

00:40:38:00 - 00:40:38:12
Speaker 3
Yeah, for.

00:40:38:12 - 00:41:07:19
Speaker 2
Sure. And that's that's awesome. Like totally. I think that's very accurate. You know, with the conscious mind, just your waking mind when your eyes are open and you're doing your thing, the subconscious being the storehouse of impressions and memories and all that. So yeah, and I feel like we live out our subconscious in so many ways, right? Like so even when I was coming out of my dirt bag, your first of all, I could even see how I like, created circumstances in my life.

00:41:07:19 - 00:41:35:18
Speaker 2
Like, it's crazy. Like, sometimes you live things you like and I see how like my, thoughts created that. The thing that I'm living like, can be glaringly obvious. So yeah, I think, I think when I, when I really, when I left climbing my, my really intensive cycle. So like I was in this relationship, it was really, you could say codependent.

00:41:35:18 - 00:41:59:16
Speaker 2
I wasn't I wasn't financially independent. So I was really sort of I didn't have a lot of independence or sovereignty or, you know, again, it goes back to my belief in myself. I had a really like I just didn't believe I didn't believe I could survive. So I was walking back to my tent one day in the blast, like pushing my bike up the hill.

00:41:59:16 - 00:42:09:19
Speaker 2
I just I just walked into town and got groceries, maybe had a shower that was coming all the way back up to the blocks, not even to camp there. So don't tell anybody. I'm like.

00:42:11:03 - 00:42:14:16
Speaker 3
Yeah, I was going to say. So we had a.

00:42:14:16 - 00:42:31:13
Speaker 2
Calf up there like two months. Wow, crazy. Like I was in a tent for like two months and I was, you know, the magic of that time, too, was like, I was listening to so many podcasts, and this was like a while ago. This is like, you know, seven, eight years ago. Like, things have come such a long way.

00:42:31:13 - 00:42:57:02
Speaker 2
It's crazy when I think of like the way in which we are so open and just talking about consciousness, all these kinds of things. Like back when I was like really getting exposed to it or like it. Yeah, finding it. It was not mainstream like it is now. Like it's changed a lot. And that's, I mean, it just goes to show where we're at like.

00:42:57:02 - 00:43:19:04
Speaker 2
But anyways, I'm like pushing my bike out and then because I believe I primed my mind for an idea because of all the podcasts I listen to, all the books I read, all the journaling I did, and I was always into entrepreneurial kind of like that spirit because it's creative, right? Like even with this podcast, creativity is so important.

00:43:19:05 - 00:43:23:22
Speaker 2
Like, it makes you healthy, I think, you know, to create something of your own, it's very important.

00:43:24:18 - 00:43:43:18
Speaker 1
I think it's important that people know that I, at least for myself, I kind of did myself, is not a creative person. I was just like that was kind of a label that I accepted and I was convinced of that. And it's just I've made I do. I'm serious. Like through high school, I was like math, science, physics.

00:43:43:18 - 00:44:04:09
Speaker 1
I was going to be a fighter pilot, like I was military bro, math dude. And I, like, broke from that entire mold and like saw out a creative side of myself, and it was there, after all. So I just think it's important for anybody out there who might not think that they are creative and they are on a path of some sort.

00:44:04:19 - 00:44:14:12
Speaker 1
I think that someone everybody has some sort of creativity to them, you know, however it might manifest itself. You know, I think there's a side to be explored there.

00:44:15:08 - 00:44:18:14
Speaker 4
Yeah, I view you as a very talented, creative person. So that's why.

00:44:18:18 - 00:44:21:03
Speaker 3
Bridget, again, it's a skill I.

00:44:21:03 - 00:44:23:07
Speaker 1
Have to practice. It's been a long time coming.

00:44:23:20 - 00:44:24:04
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:44:25:00 - 00:44:56:01
Speaker 2
Well, it's that male female mind or that left right brain. Right. Like, we were like, I had to really develop my logic in my reason in like that side of myself because I was way more like I'm a very much a nurturer. Compassion, like creativity, I guess you could say, like this sort of side like this. So I think we're always both sort of cultivating both sides so that we are balanced because, you know, that's a great thing.

00:44:56:01 - 00:45:02:00
Speaker 2
And that's what climbing like. We talked about earlier, too. It is. It's both logic and intuition.

00:45:03:00 - 00:45:12:03
Speaker 1
Back to the like, the conscious and subconscious mind. Like you, you said you were you had an idea that coming to you, you were at your tent. Yeah. You primed yourself to an idea.

00:45:13:10 - 00:45:34:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then all of a sudden it's just like, boom, the conscious climber, conscious climbing. It just like, came to me, like, really clear. And I was like, Oh, and I've been like, circulating ideas for some time. You know, you try on different things. What is my fit here? And none of them stuck around. But conscious climbing has stuck with me for like eight years.

00:45:34:08 - 00:45:59:15
Speaker 2
Like every day, pretty much. It's helped me develop this idea. And ideas are actually alive, you know, like it's, it's improving the ideas. They they, they they're resonate with you, and they, they make you up, they light you up, they make you like a better person, actually, to. So I got this idea for conscious climbing, but I was like, I have, I was like 27 or something.

00:45:59:15 - 00:46:17:00
Speaker 2
I was like, I have no idea what conscious means. What the hell is conscious? Me I'm like, I know what climbing is, but I have no idea what conscious means. So literally, like within that, we, I meet this guy who's like based on my soul brother, like I just meet him. I'm like, I see him at the restaurant.

00:46:17:00 - 00:46:35:18
Speaker 2
We always go, do me and Jesse. We'd go for, like, vegan food and and I see him. My friend is from Poland and he's like, we just connect right off the bat. And he's like, I'm living at this farm across from the bluffs, across the lake. It's like, you know, you should come and visit us. And I was like, okay.

00:46:35:18 - 00:47:03:05
Speaker 2
So I like go over there and meet the kind of the crew over there. And there's an amazing, like esoteric yoga teacher who who's like a shell and priest like he's like, he's like martial artist consciousness, yoga, spirituality to the max. Like, so I was like, boom, there's consciousness. Now I want to go. I knew what climbing was all about, but I didn't know what consciousness was about.

00:47:03:17 - 00:47:28:13
Speaker 2
So getting that inspirational idea come to me and you feel it. When you feel an idea, it's just. It's more important to you. It's it's just to me because like I said, I was in that relationship dynamic. I felt it was like God throwing me a rope was like, catch this. I'm going to like just fall take this line basically was like saving me in a way.

00:47:28:22 - 00:47:59:16
Speaker 2
Gave me this rope. I follow the inspiration for that. I end up at the spiritual school across the lake from the blocks, and that's where I started to learn about the mind and how creative it is, how literally creative it is. Like, like we're literally creating based on our thoughts and everything and which is kind of Segways into my product actually with the mind tools, mind tool simply means mantra, all the words I chose, you know, these are slip covers for the gear.

00:48:00:02 - 00:48:32:03
Speaker 2
The intention is to reduce fear into, into like to give you the good vibe, like the spirit so that you can, you're going to create on a higher like, like in a good way instead of like the fear. Or it's like everything about them is to help. Like, just so that you can create better and also bridge everything we're learning in climbing all the essence, the essence of it with the everyday life so that you can take the lessons from climbing and start living them.

00:48:32:13 - 00:48:49:20
Speaker 2
And so it's like there's a whole bunch of little like benefits. And so yeah, that's kind of like what I learned. That's the most important thing I learned from my time at the school. I mean, I learned a lot, but really it was just like the self-awareness of my own thinking in my own mind.

00:48:50:14 - 00:49:05:22
Speaker 1
What are some specific things that you practiced in order to gain more understanding of your mind and your relationship between these two parts? We were talking about like, was there anything that he taught you specifically and that you've carried on into your life or.

00:49:05:22 - 00:49:36:14
Speaker 2
Um, yeah. I mean, like, I think the obvious one to me is like, you know, that our physical body, our emotional body and our mental body, like, just in terms of our personality, are all like they're obviously all connected, but they're also all different. And that each thing's going to require in the same way that I was training my physical body in really getting to know how to do exercise and all this kind of stuff.

00:49:36:14 - 00:49:53:01
Speaker 2
Like I had to really train and like work with my emotional body and my mental body. So like the idea, the idea that we're have, you know, we're obviously, you know, have layers to us and that that, you know, everything needs tending to.

00:49:54:07 - 00:50:08:12
Speaker 1
I mean, that's that speaks to like an awareness of of our state of being. Were there any sort of practices like meditation or maybe psychedelics or anything that you use to help connect yourself to these parts that you're speaking of? Was there.

00:50:08:18 - 00:50:09:10
Speaker 3
A practice.

00:50:09:20 - 00:50:12:08
Speaker 1
That might be actionable to to a guest or an audience?

00:50:13:11 - 00:50:53:13
Speaker 2
Well, like, yeah, I mean, I've done a lot of things. For example, the one I'm thinking of right now is like I, I to speak to my subconscious and to work with my subconscious. There's so many different types of therapies like hypnotherapy, EMDR, like things like that that like work with the subconscious. But something I do also is I paint tarot cues which are like these archetypal images of like sort of if is a language directly for the subconscious because the subconscious speaks and understands symbols, colors, these kinds of things.

00:50:54:12 - 00:51:20:14
Speaker 2
It's not so literal. So it actually takes in the color that I paint and the images and actually re restructures my subconscious. But I mean, I do meditation. I went through a feat. I went through a stage of mushrooms, ayahuasca, like DMT, like these kinds of things. Um, and all those kinds of vibes, all those different things you go through.

00:51:20:22 - 00:51:48:08
Speaker 2
I'm at the stage now where I just like, you know, I just, I meditate in the morning, and I just, like, really find life to be really dynamic. And I get so much from like just living now that I don't have to kind of do the deep dives. But trust me, there's a long, many, many, many years and hours of, like, just clearing stuff out.

00:51:48:08 - 00:51:54:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, because we all have stuff to clear out into, like, just unpacking all that I find.

00:51:54:03 - 00:52:18:01
Speaker 4
I find for myself, I usually have a lot of different tools, modalities, whatever you want to call it, to actually deal with certain issues I have with dealing with depression and stuff. And so for a good example is like meditation really, really helps me personally, but I don't know if it's me consciously or subconsciously doing it. I am so resistant to doing it.

00:52:18:01 - 00:52:44:21
Speaker 4
I will for a week. I will meditate well and everything will be getting better and I'll be feeling better. And I'm like 100%. This is the solution to my problem. But then for some reason I will not maintain consistency and be consistent with something about, you know, the silence and coming to terms with your own internal voice in your own thoughts, the discomfort of that, I just kind of slowly start to avoid it and then push it away and then move away from it.

00:52:45:15 - 00:52:57:18
Speaker 4
Did you experience something like that? Like when you say you're doing meditation, is that something that's just natural? And you're like, it's just fine. I do my 10 minutes meditation the morning. Is it like it's this is a huge, monumental task that you have to fight through?

00:52:57:21 - 00:53:21:11
Speaker 2
Man. Learning to meditate was the hardest shit ever like it. It took me a since like I earnestly sincerely was like a like in the same way I get very into climbing or very into anything. I was so into spirituality and like so desiring to meditate and to connect with my spirit and like all that kind of stuff.

00:53:22:02 - 00:53:49:15
Speaker 2
But it took me probably six and a half years, seven years to be able to sit and meditate. And that was like after really, really wanting it because yeah, there's the mind is active by nature, no doubt. Like even when we're sleeping, it's active. So the hardest thing to do is to, is to go like to, to find the stillness within all that activity, that center right.

00:53:49:15 - 00:53:57:19
Speaker 2
So it's I mean, it's tough. Like, I don't know, people think I'm like, I don't know how you just meditate because that that's like one of the hardest things to do. Yeah.

00:53:58:14 - 00:53:58:18
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:53:58:18 - 00:54:42:19
Speaker 1
I've I've tried meditation and there has been moments where it's been good, but I struggle with the the silence for me has been helpful during these moments is more I guess, affirmation based but more of a, of a communication reversal. So instead of the subconscious communicating to my present being and how I act and how I behave, I like to almost talk back the other way and try to reprogram the language that's coming out just, you know, it's funny, like a lot of people, maybe I am crazy, but like talking to yourself I think is like obviously there are situations where you're, you know, you're it's not a good thing, but it can be good

00:54:42:19 - 00:54:53:20
Speaker 1
because you're recognizing that there is like multi dimensions to your brain and you're, you're able to have a conversation with yourself, try to reprogram what's coming out the other side.

00:54:54:03 - 00:54:54:15
Speaker 3
Mm hmm.

00:54:55:09 - 00:54:56:03
Speaker 2
100%.

00:54:57:08 - 00:54:58:03
Speaker 4
I also think.

00:54:58:03 - 00:54:58:08
Speaker 3
Like.

00:54:58:19 - 00:55:25:17
Speaker 4
Cognitive behavioral therapy is, like, really, really well studied. And it's essentially I mean, this is way overly simplistic, but it's like positive self-affirmation, right? So you have neurons. And in between those neurons there's a synaptic connection which is this kind of space. Right? And that's where these neurotransmitters go through. And as you use certain connections over and over again, it be they they reinforce that like a muscle, they get better at firing.

00:55:25:23 - 00:55:55:20
Speaker 4
So if you have a constant negative internal dialog or something, this this internal voice for yourself keeps happening. You essentially have this neural network through your brain that is really reinforced. Wow. That's like a default that you will actually use consistently, whether you are aware of it or not, and you're actually reinforcing it. And so if you think about it, if you've had like a negative internal dialog for 15, 20 years, you could like you could, you could use like a now it's like.

00:55:55:22 - 00:55:58:11
Speaker 1
It's like rerouting the Interstate five and yeah.

00:55:58:21 - 00:56:15:07
Speaker 4
You know, think of it from a muscle component, you know, like if you work out a bicep for 15 years, that bicep gets really big and really strong. And all of a sudden, if your goal is now, you're like, Okay, well, I don't want that bicep to be strong. That takes a long time and a lot of reprograming and a lot of different work.

00:56:15:09 - 00:56:36:09
Speaker 4
And I think a lot of times people don't want to or don't view the mind as some form of a muscle that you can train or connect with or work in that kind of a way. But the reality is, yeah, if you have this internal dialog and you've been communicating like that forever, it's, it's, it's a, it's a pretty large task to try and change that.

00:56:36:09 - 00:57:00:10
Speaker 4
And I think on some level that talking to yourself a positive self affirmation, even if you don't believe some of it, you know, sometimes I'll have such a negative dialog with myself and I'll have to stop and be like, No, you know and, and just really like intentionally find that thought, say that's wrong, disconnect from it and then try and build a new neural pathway and reinforce that positive neural pathway.

00:57:00:13 - 00:57:05:15
Speaker 4
And I think that's part of what like cognitive behavioral therapy is, right? Yeah.

00:57:06:08 - 00:57:19:00
Speaker 1
I think that's really cool. I've never heard it is described in such a physical sense where you can actually kind of like visualize what's happening in the brain on a, on a materialistic level. That's pretty sweet. I resonate with that a lot.

00:57:19:00 - 00:57:46:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And in like back to climbing, you're too weak to bring this back to the climbing community and stuff too. It's like I think, you know, that seeing your vibe attracts your tribe. I think a lot of us come from the same sort of mindset like at the beginning, right? Like we, we've sort of spoken about different things of being, whether that's like secular or that's maybe not being empowered or this or that.

00:57:46:18 - 00:58:09:12
Speaker 2
Like I think I'm also trying to say like the mind tools, that's the point of the mind tools and the climbing covers is like it's to work the, the mind muscle. So it's, it's stronger. It's, it's, it's, it's it's it's more successful, really, or whatever the word is want to use. But it's like it's that repetition.

00:58:09:12 - 00:58:09:19
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:58:10:03 - 00:58:34:16
Speaker 2
And like when we're spending so many hours a day climbing, train your mind too, because you like the mindset again, like this is the conscious timing. What I call it's like it's like the, the, the essence of it. You want to like it's the stuff that's in your mind that you want to bring to light because that's the sustainable part of you.

00:58:34:16 - 00:58:55:16
Speaker 2
The body stuff comes and goes like the grades, the muscles that this and the that. Like it's not sustainable. It's actually very what's the word, transitory and changing all the time. But it's like it's the mind is the best thing to cultivate because I believe it's the thing that you you carry throughout your whole life.

00:58:55:20 - 00:59:22:00
Speaker 1
And I think so the mind, I mean, the physicality and the muscles and the movement definitely come through into your life in terms of how you interact with the world in a physical level. But like you're saying, that particular trait is slowly deteriorates. And I think the mind is something, you know, the lessons that we learn in climbing and this is what we talked about earlier in the podcast, is that these lessons that we're learning are transmissible into so many other facets of our of our life.

00:59:22:00 - 00:59:35:18
Speaker 1
And until we pass away, it's it's something that, like you said, is something we can practice. And and looking at these mind tools, I see, you know, there are I know there are six different words that you print. Three of them are commit.

00:59:35:18 - 00:59:36:20
Speaker 3
I focus more.

00:59:37:00 - 00:59:37:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, more now. 30.

00:59:37:23 - 00:59:39:11
Speaker 3
Okay, cool your sight.

00:59:39:11 - 00:59:40:09
Speaker 1
I only saw six.

00:59:40:23 - 00:59:42:05
Speaker 3
Are you. I know. Okay.

00:59:42:05 - 00:59:43:10
Speaker 2
So I got up to five.

00:59:43:21 - 00:59:44:15
Speaker 3
Okay. Well.

00:59:44:22 - 00:59:53:19
Speaker 1
I mean I see. Commit, focus and breathe and I think the other three were send I hope. What were the other two original ones.

00:59:53:19 - 00:59:57:02
Speaker 2
Send it strength and commit or.

00:59:57:09 - 00:59:58:01
Speaker 1
I said commit.

00:59:58:07 - 00:59:58:15
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:59:58:19 - 01:00:00:08
Speaker 2
Oh believe, believe, believe.

01:00:00:10 - 01:00:18:07
Speaker 1
And yeah I think that. Yes. Calling out those, those words really speak to kind of what you're trying to accomplish with, with your product and that's having a direct communication with that subconscious mind while you're climbing. It's to, to have those words flash into your mind. Well, you know, it might be the exact word that you need to hear.

01:00:18:08 - 01:00:36:15
Speaker 1
Like I can't tell you how many times when I'm trying to, like, help a climber get through a crux or trying to get them to climb harder. My biggest focus is, is breathe. Are you breathing, you know, big breaths and like to have that reminder right in front of you is is important. And I think those other words kind of carry onto that.

01:00:36:15 - 01:00:47:02
Speaker 1
So it's pretty cool. I think that our conversation that we've been having just linked so well to this product that you're trying to that you're creating now. So I totally get it.

01:00:47:13 - 01:01:08:05
Speaker 2
And like I said, like, this product is really not it's it just is just is what it is. It really came to me like, as in something I just need to bring to life. And, but yeah, it's, it's mainly just to help the minds and because it's that mind body connection, because we even know when we're holding on to some hold, we're going to make a dynamic move to, to the next hold.

01:01:08:16 - 01:01:32:12
Speaker 2
If there's any doubt in your mind you're the likelihood of you catching, that decreases significantly. But if you fully believe you're going to go catch that hold, you're going to catch it for sure. You know what I mean? So it's like that mind body, the mind body connection, it's real. And so it's like train the mind at the same time because it's going to help you in everything.

01:01:33:08 - 01:01:48:23
Speaker 4
I also think like back to that, an interesting thing, if you want to play a game with yourself to really look at this if you are someone who is leading and you maybe are at a grade, that's really difficult for yourself. Top rope.

01:01:48:23 - 01:01:49:20
Speaker 3
The route in.

01:01:49:20 - 01:02:13:05
Speaker 4
A really safe manner and at least for myself is if it's within a certain grade range that I know I can climb, I will top rope it and I will effortlessly climate move fluidly and really well. And then when you add the leading component for sure, placing gear takes more time and stuff, but like it'll take you like ten times the amount.

01:02:13:10 - 01:02:13:15
Speaker 3
The.

01:02:13:15 - 01:02:33:20
Speaker 4
Fluidity and the way I climb it is not as smooth. All of these things come to life that are huge limiting factors. And so ultimately the question that I have when I, when I experience things like that is what is limiting me there? Is it actually my climbing or movement? Like I just climb on top rope. I could do it so easily, no problem.

01:02:33:20 - 01:02:35:13
Speaker 4
And then I let it. And it was this.

01:02:35:21 - 01:02:36:19
Speaker 3
Really.

01:02:36:19 - 01:03:04:05
Speaker 4
Anxious, nervous experience. I was over, pumped, over, gripped. I didn't feel well. It took me so long at the top. My anxiety was like so high and my nerves were through the roof and stuff. And so to me, the limiting factor there is 100% your mind, you know, when you add fear in that that that different avenue in there, it's clearly not a physical limitation that prevented you from fluidly and effortlessly moving there.

01:03:04:05 - 01:03:15:02
Speaker 4
It was all your mind that limited you from doing that correctly? I don't know. Correct me if you guys think that's different, but like there's a lot of experience like that, right? And so a lot of the.

01:03:15:03 - 01:03:15:08
Speaker 2
Time.

01:03:15:20 - 01:03:21:23
Speaker 4
Factor, as someone who worked in the outdoor and just like I'm I'm really big into gear and sometimes I'm like.

01:03:21:23 - 01:03:23:04
Speaker 3
Oh, if I had this piece.

01:03:23:04 - 01:03:24:01
Speaker 4
Of gear or if I.

01:03:24:01 - 01:03:25:13
Speaker 3
Had this or I figured.

01:03:25:14 - 01:03:44:18
Speaker 4
Fitted a certain way, but, or if I just trained harder, this or that. But a lot of the time, the limiting factor is actually my mental state, my mental game. And that's something that I think I focus on less than all the other three of my my technical skills or my physicality. Right. So yeah, it's really interesting.

01:03:45:08 - 01:04:08:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think that's where even like the meditation or like the positive self-talk really comes in because I think the more relaxed we are in general, like the more the less pressure expectation you know, like the less we're worried about what people think of us out there and like all these kinds of things, they all contribute to like stress in the mind, in the body.

01:04:08:06 - 01:04:36:09
Speaker 2
So it's like the more everything can just open up and relax. Like when you're kind of open and go back to the meditation part, like when you're to, when you're sort of like tuned in to like your insides and like that, that sort of peace place and knowing that like you're more than your body and stuff like that, I think you kind of you open up a little bit more like in terms of enjoying the experience.

01:04:36:19 - 01:05:13:20
Speaker 2
But again, that's it's pretty advanced. Like we have a very, very strong self-preservation instinct and that's just is what it is. But, you know, there's just little ways like, you know, like when I go back climbing now, which I've taken quite a bit of time off and when I get to go, it's like it's a treat. And I just the main thing for me is I'm just enjoying the company, I'm enjoying being outside and then like I'm really enjoying the actual contact with the rock and then for me, my tools just help, like to just keep me focused on like the stuff that's really, that really matters.

01:05:13:20 - 01:05:14:17
Speaker 2
Not like real.

01:05:14:17 - 01:05:24:21
Speaker 1
Quick, like, I don't think we've actually like specifically said what this product is, what is a mind tool and how is it used like physically, what is it.

01:05:25:06 - 01:05:52:06
Speaker 2
Is a slip cover for dog bone's like so for the quick draws or the cans you just it's like we've got all the colors of the rainbow. Basically. And, and then just with affirmations like positive affirmations on them. So again, it's to the, to the subconscious mind color and and symbol, basically. So sometimes, you know, people want to know how practical it is and everything like that.

01:05:52:22 - 01:06:14:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, there's a lot of practicality to it and I guess like, I mean in terms of like keeps your gear clean, differentiates your gear among your climbing partners, things like that, you can customize it if you're a gym or dieting company. I can put whatever word and logo on it, but then it's actually just that subconscious tool.

01:06:14:08 - 01:06:15:09
Speaker 3
I'd say just yeah, I'd say.

01:06:15:09 - 01:06:17:04
Speaker 1
That that's the main purpose of it.

01:06:17:22 - 01:06:18:08
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:06:18:08 - 01:06:24:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, so you kind of go to feel it and you got it kind of resonate with it and, and it's not going to be for everybody, but.

01:06:25:15 - 01:06:30:06
Speaker 1
Are you thinking of or are they applicable on to cams of certain sizes.

01:06:32:03 - 01:06:34:03
Speaker 2
They can fit on the dog bone of a.

01:06:34:03 - 01:06:36:10
Speaker 3
Cam. Okay. Got it. Yeah.

01:06:36:23 - 01:06:38:01
Speaker 2
Like, like this part.

01:06:38:19 - 01:06:39:04
Speaker 1
Sweet.

01:06:39:14 - 01:06:46:17
Speaker 2
So if the, if the camera down here, if you just take this chill. Yeah. Since this chill.

01:06:47:11 - 01:06:48:05
Speaker 3
Is so just it.

01:06:49:01 - 01:06:50:06
Speaker 2
Sometimes you just got.

01:06:50:06 - 01:06:51:04
Speaker 3
It. So, like, I could use.

01:06:53:17 - 01:06:54:20
Speaker 4
That, like, crushing, you know.

01:06:54:20 - 01:07:06:14
Speaker 3
Like, I need my chill quick draw right now. Yeah, exactly. Like, I need that. Yeah. Like.

01:07:06:22 - 01:07:15:10
Speaker 2
The quicker that you can relax the nervous system, the better, the quicker you're able to get back into performance.

01:07:15:14 - 01:07:15:23
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:07:16:12 - 01:07:22:17
Speaker 1
That's awesome. I could see said planning planning their sport route based on what word they're going to put on each clip.

01:07:22:17 - 01:07:27:14
Speaker 3
Like I need I need to focus for like four because there's a crux. Yeah.

01:07:28:01 - 01:07:30:04
Speaker 1
I need to breathe one after the crux. Yeah.

01:07:31:07 - 01:07:32:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. That's good. Yeah, totally.

01:07:32:16 - 01:07:45:05
Speaker 2
It makes, it makes climbing actually really fun because if you're projecting or something like that, like you can kind of like put them on the wall and you're like talking with your body about it. Yeah. Be like, you know, by the blue breathe like this is the beta here.

01:07:45:05 - 01:07:47:10
Speaker 3
Yeah, totally. And like I think that's, that's.

01:07:47:10 - 01:07:55:21
Speaker 2
Why mean it's fun as a whole kind of another level or as a whole another like playfulness and like plays.

01:07:55:22 - 01:08:03:15
Speaker 1
You also get you get you using language that you need to be talking with in order to properly approach the task at hand.

01:08:04:09 - 01:08:26:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. So even like intentional, it's like what's, what's your intention for this client? Oh, it's to be chill. I'm going to clip my chill. My intention is going to be chill. Yeah. Like, you know, it makes it a little bit more intentional and so then it kind of bridges it, you know, to I guess you could say more yoga word is more mind body cause I'm a yoga teacher too.

01:08:26:14 - 01:08:42:05
Speaker 2
Like, that's like certified. Like, that's sort of background to okay. But also climbing teams. Like I've seen a bunch of like, like youth and climbing teams and guides use them and stuff and that makes me so happy when the kids get to use them and learn to climb.

01:08:42:09 - 01:08:46:08
Speaker 1
That's actually a really cool application I did not think of. I think that was super cool.

01:08:46:08 - 01:08:46:19
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:08:47:00 - 01:08:47:09
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:08:48:06 - 01:09:00:00
Speaker 2
So yeah. And by the way, you can get them on the conscious dot com or climb on Squamish or Valhalla Pure and Vernon and Soon Mac Worldwide or Canada y.

01:09:00:02 - 01:09:02:09
Speaker 3
Right that's the next.

01:09:03:05 - 01:09:07:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Well we'll definitely put these links in the description so people can check them out for sure.

01:09:07:17 - 01:09:08:05
Speaker 2
Thank you.

01:09:09:06 - 01:09:34:08
Speaker 4
Yeah, I got to be honest, I'm actually going to buy these for sure. I think they're pretty cool. I've never seen them in person before. I've only been to climb on a couple of times and I didn't see them there. But it's funny I just had an experience where actually the the route that I originally like had my accident on falling my, my partner Ray, my girlfriend, we just climbed out together over the weekend and.

01:09:34:08 - 01:10:01:13
Speaker 4
Oh wow big deal for us and my my on site level for trad at the highest I've ever done is about ten deep. I think I can do more. I think I've been limiting myself up here in my mind, but that's my eyes on sea level. And this is a 19 pitch climb and the crux is a ten be at the very top and and so like climbing halfway through like I kind of had this I was halfway through this kind of roof and I have this really negative dialog with myself.

01:10:01:13 - 01:10:21:04
Speaker 4
I was going, you know, in a bad place. And then I just have this moment of being like, you know, like, like, fuck that, breathe, relax, like, stay calm. Like, I just started this internal dialog to myself. And sure enough, like, my pacing kind of just changed and everything, and I just boom, like, sent it clean and made it through.

01:10:21:04 - 01:10:44:03
Speaker 4
And I was just so stoked and I was pretty beat, to be honest, at the top of like half edge. But it really like that was actually the difference. Like I was, I was thinking I was going to not make it through this this this kind of cracks and and really just that that taking a second shifting and having that internal dialog with myself is 100%, which is instantly changed it for me.

01:10:44:03 - 01:11:00:18
Speaker 4
And just it was just like, I know I can do this made it and it was like it was all good. So yeah, it was a really cool experience. Yeah. So I feel like I could have, you know, timing covers. I might have come to the realization a little quicker.

01:11:00:18 - 01:11:07:04
Speaker 1
Did you bash that granite enough with a cam a couple of times as you went past it.

01:11:07:04 - 01:11:08:02
Speaker 4
The granite nub.

01:11:08:09 - 01:11:08:15
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:11:08:15 - 01:11:11:02
Speaker 1
That you broke your ankle. Oh, that acid did you.

01:11:11:05 - 01:11:13:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. Oh, my God. No, I didn't mad.

01:11:13:17 - 01:11:22:07
Speaker 4
Not at all. I just looked right out and I was like, I can't believe that this happened, you know? And then the anchors, like right above by the area and Ray was climbing and I was.

01:11:22:07 - 01:11:23:03
Speaker 1
Like telling her, I was like.

01:11:23:03 - 01:11:27:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, this is what happened. And it, it, it really, you know, human.

01:11:27:15 - 01:11:49:10
Speaker 4
Memory is pretty finicky and bad in certain circumstances. And there's definitely some parts after my fall that I blacked out on. But being in there and seeing it, I could really remember a lot better. I was like, Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure this is what happened and this is what went on. And And so it was just really interesting experience and the pitch is really easy, you know, it's.

01:11:49:10 - 01:11:49:14
Speaker 1
Just.

01:11:50:00 - 01:12:08:14
Speaker 4
This really dumb mistake. So it wasn't like I was like crossing out or something, trying to go through this moment. It was just there. It was like, this is so simple, this is so avoidable. And there was something so therapeutic about going through there and just and doing that and. Then also from the component, the lower half of the routes up the apron, super easy.

01:12:08:14 - 01:12:36:16
Speaker 4
You know, it was pretty cruisy for us. And then the upper half we did the ultimate everything and that was like a new route for us and that's like for me, like it was a big day out, right. And so to come back just over a year after the accident and climb like the longest multi pitch I've ever climbed, and then to have like a ten cracks at the top, it was really this super emotional like therapeutic thing where I was like, okay, I came back, did the thing that I failed on, came full circle.

01:12:36:22 - 01:12:58:12
Speaker 4
Here I was with Ray. It was just this really important moment. And then it was also just a part of like kind showing myself like, you know, like, yeah, you fucked up. But also you put in so much unbelievable time and energy and mental work and meditation and physiotherapy and yoga and all these things to get you back and to culminate into this day.

01:12:58:16 - 01:13:16:01
Speaker 4
And, you know, we just had this great rad day out and we sent the roof and it was amazing. And so it was really just yeah, I don't know, like I was at the top there and once Ray got up and like I had like tears in my eyes, I was pretty emotional about it. It was there was just something pretty, pretty, pretty big about it.

01:13:16:01 - 01:13:17:11
Speaker 4
So yeah, it's awesome.

01:13:17:11 - 01:13:19:02
Speaker 1
And I had no idea. It's pretty sweet.

01:13:19:13 - 01:13:22:08
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

01:13:22:09 - 01:13:24:13
Speaker 2
I love those kind of experiences.

01:13:25:10 - 01:13:28:07
Speaker 4
Yeah, for sure. Ideally, you don't have to have that experience.

01:13:28:07 - 01:13:31:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, no, but I mean.

01:13:31:18 - 01:14:01:06
Speaker 2
You can't make it through life without a hard experience. Right? Like those are the hardest things are our deepest lessons generally like you know, so we all, we all have those things in life and really but and that's why also I'm a big proponent of hiring guides and getting in on classes and things like that and actually getting the education because there's incredible rock guides out there, like in Squamish and and everywhere else in there.

01:14:01:11 - 01:14:21:10
Speaker 2
It's just, this is just a shout out or like a message to all like the, the newer climbers. Just, just take the time to take a couple of courses goes long way just for so you can't cause some of those accidents are you know human error and preventable yeah some art and yeah just in education is really important.

01:14:21:11 - 01:14:45:19
Speaker 4
Yeah mine was mine was very, very preventable. And I think I think for me, breaking down myself, the largest issue I have is, is an ego issue. Like, I am not that strong of a climber. I have this perception of myself where like, I wish I was a better climber. You know, if I go out with like certain I would really climb with, maybe I get, like, nervous or I really don't want to fall that crocs or have this perception of myself.

01:14:46:00 - 01:15:06:19
Speaker 4
And so there's this really big like egotistical part of me that just hold myself back and doesn't acknowledge that. And at the time of my accident, I was trying to, like, pare down my rack and climb light and climb fast and climb harder. And it really wasn't actually my style of climbing. I just had this idea. I was like, Oh yeah, if I'm a good climber, that's how I'm going to climb.

01:15:06:20 - 01:15:26:03
Speaker 4
And that all these things that were kind of driving my motivations and how I was acting and and it really didn't work out for me. And so I think for me that's probably one of the largest lessons is that, that that's just that I struggle with. And I, I'm trying to reconcile it more and to deal with it and to come to terms with it.

01:15:26:03 - 01:15:41:15
Speaker 4
Right. And, and I really just wish it wasn't a thing because I think it's done. You know, most of the time if I climb with people and somebody falls or somebody isn't that good at climbing or something, I don't care at all. I'm like, I'm so stoked for them. I'm just happy to be out them. I don't care about what their grades are, what they're sending.

01:15:41:18 - 01:16:00:19
Speaker 4
I think it's just all about getting out in the outdoors and and, you know, feeling good, being happy and getting to go experience amazing places. But yet when I turn that, that, that view onto myself, I don't I don't give myself the same grace at all. And I view myself in a completely different light, in a negative way.

01:16:01:01 - 01:16:06:06
Speaker 4
And it's yeah, it's just it's it's not great, you know, and that's something that I need to work on it best.

01:16:07:06 - 01:16:34:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, when I was at that spiritual school, like another important thing because I coming out of climbing for so long, I was so identified with what I did right. My identity was I'm a I'm a climber. I am what I do. And then I arrived there and it, like, just broke me down. Like, my whole structure that I had created had to tumble down and break.

01:16:34:19 - 01:16:50:04
Speaker 2
Yeah. And then you realize you're not what you do, and you hear this all the time, but, like, you know, when we go out climbing, what we do for the day, on the day of climbing is it's just it's just not who we are. At the end of the day like. It's just not going to matter at the end of the day.

01:16:50:04 - 01:17:11:10
Speaker 2
Like, it's doesn't mean that, like, it's meaningless or that you don't want to have an awesome climb and progress and all these kinds of things. But I think just a simple reminder of like who you are on the inside is most important and just kind of like just just taking care of that inside part of yourself is always absolutely climbing.

01:17:11:10 - 01:17:36:06
Speaker 1
Can't define you. At least I don't think it can. There's more to a human than than an activity like that. And I, I too definitely wrapped up my ego and my self-worth into the art of climbing to, you know, pushing grades, trying harder climbing, being good at climbing like that was my focus. And I didn't know where I wanted or what to do with it, you know?

01:17:36:06 - 01:17:56:16
Speaker 1
And it took my injury completely removing me from this activity to, to, to focus on other areas of my life that I clearly needed to to work on. And, you know, it started this podcast, it's done so many other great things in my life to take my focus away from climbing. It's still there. I still climb, I still love it.

01:17:57:02 - 01:18:07:10
Speaker 1
But I have so many other things going on that it's not life or death. If I can't make it to the crag or I didn't send the route or I'm not pushing grades, I was just a much more healthier approach to.

01:18:07:10 - 01:18:33:00
Speaker 2
It Yeah, like I can think of someone I know right now who's like so identified with climbing that I don't think they've really in other areas of their life and like, you know, it doesn't and I'm just seeing that as an observation. It's like sometimes these things come into our life to redirect us so that we do continue to evolve and develop in all aspects.

01:18:33:00 - 01:18:48:04
Speaker 2
Because if we're just so focused in this one lane, you know, to each their own and to everybody has their individual path and things like that. But I can definitely see that like that addict style and that one track mind being detrimental.

01:18:48:12 - 01:18:50:02
Speaker 1
And is all absorbing. Yeah.

01:18:51:23 - 01:19:17:08
Speaker 4
Absolutely. And I think I think, you know, like, like Kyle said, I completely with what he said, this, this experience, this injury, this podcast has really showed me that there's different avenues to pursue that are also actually in in the in the still climbing related but like other ways that I can express myself and pursue things and that I've learned from climbing and that are meaningful to me.

01:19:17:14 - 01:19:33:07
Speaker 4
I do think the caveat to that is like if you are a pro climber and that's all you do and you get paid to do that and that's your living and you know, go do your thing. But I think the reality, there's lots of people who are dealing with what we're talking about that aren't pro climbers that aren't going to become pro climbers.

01:19:33:12 - 01:19:51:18
Speaker 4
And it's like, is it worth giving up your whole life, giving up all your other creative endeavors, giving up your little your literal physical body and your health for that? And I think that that's a that's an interesting question you might want to ask yourself. Right. And that's not me like dissing climbing in any way. I love climbing.

01:19:51:18 - 01:20:00:15
Speaker 4
I'm still learning all the time, you know, it's like it's the greatest thing. It brings me so much joy. But, but, but that's that's definitely something that people want to reckon with, right?

01:20:01:01 - 01:20:18:13
Speaker 1
I would I would dare to say that pro climbers probably feel it the most. Like if they get in an injury or they get a pulley or they can't make it to climbing for some reason, I'm sure that that affects them more than you know it would, you and I, because they don't have a lot of other stuff going on.

01:20:18:13 - 01:20:35:05
Speaker 1
You know, climbing is everything to them because it's their not only is it their hobby, but it's their wellbeing. It's how they make money. So much lies on their performance. You know, they might lose sponsorships, they might lose their well-being. They might not be able to climb as hard as they they need to or think they need to.

01:20:35:05 - 01:20:45:19
Speaker 1
And so I'm sure there's a lot of pressure and a lot of an interesting caveat to that, because you have to be so involved to be able to be at the level of performance that you're at.

01:20:45:19 - 01:20:51:07
Speaker 4
Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. I think the only the only difference is that they can afford.

01:20:51:11 - 01:20:52:09
Speaker 1
To to to.

01:20:52:09 - 01:21:04:01
Speaker 4
Be all companies. True. Yeah. If they throw everything into that, the fruits of their labor are in some ways paying off. Right. Yeah. Me if I kill myself I'm see out early. Get much of that.

01:21:04:01 - 01:21:08:09
Speaker 3
You know. I mean it's like, yeah so there's a lot of.

01:21:08:09 - 01:21:11:01
Speaker 4
People not going to be super happy with that, you know.

01:21:11:01 - 01:21:13:08
Speaker 3
So yeah, a little bit.

01:21:13:08 - 01:21:20:21
Speaker 4
Of a difference, but I appreciate what you're saying. Totally. I couldn't imagine being a pro athlete and popping a ring finger, you know, just seeing red.

01:21:21:22 - 01:21:45:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. It's to be in the to be a professional in this industry. It's unlike other sports, like snowboarding or skateboarding or basketball, any of these other sports that have like huge industries and things like that because, you know, we we go as hard as like any other athlete really. But it's not to the it's it's in its own kind of category, which is funny.

01:21:45:13 - 01:22:10:18
Speaker 2
But even that's a guide. It's it's a it's such a hustle, it's such a grind to to make it to to be professional within climbing. It's it's, you know, but also yet to the part of being pro I really it really became clear to me I'm like that's not my destiny. If I if I was meant to be a pro climber, I'd be a pro climber, but is not my destiny.

01:22:10:18 - 01:22:14:00
Speaker 2
So I just like it's like the time to change.

01:22:14:07 - 01:22:16:21
Speaker 1
It's good to have that realization really is possible.

01:22:16:23 - 01:22:19:17
Speaker 3
Oh, yeah, yeah.

01:22:20:03 - 01:22:20:08
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:22:21:08 - 01:22:21:23
Speaker 1
I think that's an.

01:22:21:23 - 01:22:36:04
Speaker 4
Interesting Segway though. Just talking a little bit about your experience becoming a guide, you know, so it sounds like you're not guiding anymore, is that correct?

01:22:36:04 - 01:22:58:03
Speaker 2
I could still like go and do some teaching, but like top rope, like single pitch, you know, the industry like to really be a guide. Like you got to be on your game. You got to be like current with, with all the different configurations because people will be coming to your class and they'll know more off of YouTube than you do.

01:22:58:03 - 01:23:20:04
Speaker 2
And they'll be like, they'll stump you. And you're like, so like to really be a guide. Like, I give so much props to all the guides because like, you got to be physically fit, you got to know your shit and you've got to be good with people. And it's very to be to me it was very draining. Like it'd be like eight, 9 hours, pure talking, teaching all day.

01:23:21:01 - 01:23:43:22
Speaker 2
And then after that I don't want to go climbing anymore. I didn't want put my harness on. I didn't want put my helmet. I want to go climbing because I was in it all day teaching. So, you know, when you make your hobby or your job or whatever, there's real truth to like it changing. And so yeah, I could teach a little bit like single pitch, but I live in Vernon.

01:23:43:22 - 01:24:08:00
Speaker 2
Like, I don't, I have Cougar Canyon, which I love. It's like actually really sweet, but I don't live around, like, an established place with, like, a guiding company that I could just go work with or something. But I did climb in Squamish like last week or whatever, and it was amazing. Like, it felt so sweet. I was just, wow, this is like trad climbing is just like the, the sweet.

01:24:08:05 - 01:24:10:05
Speaker 1
It it's so good. It's too good.

01:24:10:07 - 01:24:13:03
Speaker 2
Yeah.

01:24:13:03 - 01:24:20:22
Speaker 4
Was there any route that stuck out to you that you enjoyed, that you climbed a lot in Squamish?

01:24:20:22 - 01:24:45:23
Speaker 2
Well, multi pitches were my favorite. So like liquid gold, that one just sticks out for me, like photophobia. The grand will always scared me. I love everything on this mahogany. Like The Great Game was like my favorite. Those kind of routes like the were my favorite.

01:24:45:23 - 01:25:02:02
Speaker 4
Yeah. The ground road's closed because of all the rock fall and stuff. It's a little tragic. I don't know if they're ever going to open it up. I don't. I don't really know how that's to go. That was one of my dreams, is to climb that classic, the split pillar in the ground wall and stuff to work up to that.

01:25:02:02 - 01:25:10:12
Speaker 4
But it's like from a geo engineering perspective, I don't I don't really know if they're ever going to open it up right again.

01:25:10:18 - 01:25:11:10
Speaker 2
Like, ever.

01:25:11:20 - 01:25:37:02
Speaker 4
I don't, I don't know. I'm, I'm ignorant on this. This, this aspect. I know there's someone at S.F. who's currently studying it and we actually want to get him on the podcast and talk to him about it. But yeah, I don't I don't see why it would be safe to climb. You know, it's there's it's just a massive series of huge quakes that are unstable everywhere has perpetual rockfall happening.

01:25:37:02 - 01:25:53:08
Speaker 4
So maybe this is my ignorance to talk to someone and be more educated on it. But at the same time, yeah, I mean like some of the rockfall that's happened in the last year and stuff is like a massive section of the black dike just fell off like did you did you see that? Have you seen any of the pictures.

01:25:53:08 - 01:25:54:08
Speaker 3
Of it or anything?

01:25:54:08 - 01:26:16:22
Speaker 2
I've seen I've seen a little bit in the seed and stuff like that, but I haven't dived too into the piece. I'm just like amazed because yeah, like over the last three years there's so much stuff that's come off and you see it all at the bottom. Like back when I was there, it was to the left of Angel's Crest, I think a by the sheriff's badge, like this huge chunk, like chunk?

01:26:16:22 - 01:26:19:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, man, that's crazy.

01:26:19:20 - 01:26:33:08
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah, it's really interesting. I'm. I'm really fascinated by that and really want to talk to somebody about it. So also just kind of go out on rocks. I don't know much that much about rocks, and I'd love to have someone to talk about rocks with.

01:26:34:00 - 01:26:34:08
Speaker 3
Totally.

01:26:34:12 - 01:26:36:13
Speaker 1
They're definitely in motion.

01:26:36:13 - 01:26:42:11
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, I guess maybe we can. We'll all be boulders in the future.

01:26:43:06 - 01:26:50:17
Speaker 3
No things left. Well, while Everest is still dry and so breaking both your ankles mates falling.

01:26:50:17 - 01:26:56:11
Speaker 4
From high distance is a really bad idea. Is out of the question. No, go for me.

01:26:56:13 - 01:26:58:11
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's like it's a.

01:26:58:11 - 01:26:59:15
Speaker 4
Really bad idea.

01:26:59:15 - 01:27:01:01
Speaker 3
And and also something.

01:27:01:01 - 01:27:25:08
Speaker 4
That I've discovered since doing this podcast and since falling a lot of star feet is. There's a lot of boulders that break their their bones, like a lot of bones falling off of boulders and not even eyeballs like we've had people have reached out to us that have shattered their ankles or their bones. Josh Reineke He fell bouldering and like 20 places, like splintered his tibia, I think, like and he's a guide.

01:27:25:08 - 01:27:37:02
Speaker 4
Like there's just I think I think I don't think a lot of people think about that, but like they're like, Oh, bouldering, it's safe or, Oh, it's in the gym and you're good. And I also know three have broken their ankles in bouldering.

01:27:37:02 - 01:27:40:19
Speaker 3
Gyms like the the the.

01:27:40:19 - 01:27:42:19
Speaker 4
The casualty pile seems pretty.

01:27:42:19 - 01:27:43:02
Speaker 3
High.

01:27:43:02 - 01:27:54:14
Speaker 1
Well, I think that the thing is bouldering, is impact is a constant thing whereas climbing it's it's a it happens occasionally hopefully fast.

01:27:54:21 - 01:28:15:13
Speaker 2
You can just put your gear where you want it and it's like but yeah. And I mean you just like sometimes when you're sport like I never really boulder that even sport climbing would be tough sometimes because the bolts would be like little too just right out of your reach or something like that. Maybe that's I just. That's what I like about trout is you can just kind of customize it.

01:28:15:19 - 01:28:18:03
Speaker 2
The protection. Yeah. And all that stuff.

01:28:18:17 - 01:28:19:02
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:28:19:08 - 01:28:20:03
Speaker 4
Yeah, for sure.

01:28:20:07 - 01:28:21:18
Speaker 1
Except for those obligatory run outs.

01:28:22:20 - 01:28:26:08
Speaker 2
Right, right. Well that's remind to just go.

01:28:26:11 - 01:28:30:00
Speaker 3
Believe exactly you can then you just.

01:28:30:10 - 01:28:31:06
Speaker 2
Repeat the.

01:28:31:06 - 01:28:33:05
Speaker 3
Mantra that.

01:28:33:09 - 01:28:39:22
Speaker 2
Show. So yeah. What's your guys's plans for the summer anyways. Climbing and stuff.

01:28:40:11 - 01:29:19:02
Speaker 4
All right. Okay, I have some plans. So we just climbed the ultimate everything that was like the big, like, coming circle. I'm doing all a bunch of creating this weekend, Monday. I'm actually, I'm hiring a guide, and I'm going out with a guide for a day. I'm going go climb a craft with him. And I'm just doing it to kind of like spend a day with him, move really efficiently in the mountains, talk about like your replacement anchor, look at like, you know, just drag mitigation, look at placements, talk to him about safety, just totally spend the whole day out, moving efficiently, just picking his brain as much as humanly possible.

01:29:19:10 - 01:29:42:23
Speaker 4
So far in pretty much every rock median. So like ice mix and Alpine, I've spent the day out with a guy doing that actual, like just pure rock climbing. I've never spent a day out with a guy doing that. And so for me, I was kind of like, I'm I'm going to do that. And then the weekend after that, we're going to go climb most likely in two days via the classic Becky route.

01:29:43:01 - 01:29:48:22
Speaker 4
And on the Northeast, buttress And then after that, we're going to go.

01:29:49:11 - 01:29:50:09
Speaker 1
Do.

01:29:51:04 - 01:30:19:20
Speaker 4
Rainier, Baker and Crookston and and then and then in September, depending on how things work out, ideally get some more climbing in. So just pretty much every single weekend. And I have one last ambitious goal which I don't know if I'll be able to do, but I live in Horseshoe Bay and so I want to I want to bike to the base of the chief and then I just want to run a lap up the apron and up the bud light and then and then walk off and then ride my bike home.

01:30:20:02 - 01:30:28:12
Speaker 4
And that would be a big day, too. So that those are my those are my goals for the summer of what I'm looking to do. Yeah. So I'm pretty stoked. Awesome.

01:30:29:06 - 01:30:29:16
Speaker 3
Stack.

01:30:30:00 - 01:30:30:11
Speaker 1
Stack.

01:30:32:05 - 01:30:32:19
Speaker 3
Yeah. I have.

01:30:32:19 - 01:31:15:17
Speaker 1
Quite, quite a smaller list I'm going out with, with Josh Ray. He actually was just on the show. I met him like probably eight or nine years ago. I the American Alpine Guide. And he kind of offered to he offered me an apprenticeship almost. So I'm going to go down there this weekend and do like a weekend session with him to go over the holes in my climbing experience, probably take me up some routes, kind of shoot the shit and teach me as much as he has to offer with the inevitable goal to go to the Incredible Hulk and do the red Nike drill, followed by positive vibrations that will probably either be in the

01:31:15:17 - 01:31:39:15
Speaker 1
spring or later in the season, and then in September at the end of the month, actually guy named Joey Latina on Instagram, he reached out to me. I lived in Vegas for a while and there's a route called the original route on the rainbow wall in Red Rock Canyon. It's like a I think it's a 15 pitch, 12 A at its hardest crux.

01:31:39:15 - 01:32:00:01
Speaker 1
And so basically he's going to just drag me that and I'm going to I'm going to top rope the whole thing and see if I can get up through the through all the cracks, pitches and stuff. So that's that's my to do list and then veneer if we can make it happen. Max, So we can actually have like a reuniting and actually meet, you know, since we've created each other in the flesh.

01:32:00:15 - 01:32:03:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. And see if we can tackle her together. It'd be quite the story.

01:32:05:00 - 01:32:13:16
Speaker 4
Yeah. I'm also. I am still trying to look at flights to fly down and climb with you, Kyle. Okay, how are you as well for a weekend, man.

01:32:13:18 - 01:32:14:15
Speaker 1
Super down, dude.

01:32:14:20 - 01:32:15:10
Speaker 4
On the books.

01:32:15:17 - 01:32:17:18
Speaker 1
Cool. Yeah, yeah. Lots to do down here.

01:32:17:18 - 01:32:18:04
Speaker 4
That's it.

01:32:18:04 - 01:32:25:06
Speaker 1
So I'm working on tracing my past so I can come up and visit you, but it's going to take a little bit.

01:32:25:06 - 01:32:25:17
Speaker 2
It does?

01:32:26:18 - 01:32:27:17
Speaker 3
Yeah. It's worth all.

01:32:27:20 - 01:32:32:10
Speaker 4
Raising your pass. Okay, I get it.

01:32:32:10 - 01:32:33:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, I've got to legal.

01:32:33:11 - 01:32:35:04
Speaker 1
I've got a legal barrier on the border.

01:32:36:15 - 01:32:40:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.

01:32:40:00 - 01:32:46:10
Speaker 1
You're Canadian so they've got some strict, strict rules for us delinquent Americans.

01:32:46:10 - 01:32:46:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know.

01:32:47:05 - 01:32:52:00
Speaker 4
We don't like fun up here. Apparently.

01:32:52:00 - 01:33:07:00
Speaker 2
Oh, those sound like amazing goals or objectives. And, Max, that's so cool. You're climbing with the guide. That's really awesome and that you're going to do the Northeast spotters on Lassie and that you're giving yourself to. Yeah, to do that. Smart.

01:33:07:13 - 01:33:10:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. Yeah. We were looking at the book and.

01:33:10:18 - 01:33:12:18
Speaker 4
The 16 to 24 hours and we were like.

01:33:12:23 - 01:33:15:16
Speaker 3
The chance that we're on the 16 hour mark is.

01:33:15:16 - 01:33:16:02
Speaker 4
Not.

01:33:16:02 - 01:33:19:20
Speaker 3
Very high. So I think we'll be.

01:33:20:03 - 01:33:21:18
Speaker 4
Will be low and slow. Have you ever done it?

01:33:22:17 - 01:33:47:03
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's big. It's long. No, sick. Yeah. And and the descent. And the descent is long. But I heard that. I've heard has been updated like as in more direct but like literally getting off and hiking background speed capped at the Karen or Karen at the base kind of thing. And up from there we brought like one sleeping bag, one pad type thing.

01:33:47:19 - 01:33:51:18
Speaker 2
We didn't really think we were going to spend the night, but we were like in a party of three and.

01:33:52:06 - 01:33:52:12
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:33:52:12 - 01:34:00:16
Speaker 2
But it's awesome. Just obviously get a really clear, great weather window and you're going to have an amazing time. It's It's. It's epic.

01:34:01:19 - 01:34:11:00
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's that's what I've heard to expect is pretty much enjoy like a 5 to 7 hour walk off extremely dehydrated.

01:34:11:00 - 01:34:13:03
Speaker 3
And I was like, all right, yeah.

01:34:13:06 - 01:34:19:08
Speaker 2
It took us so long to send them hike back. I remember it was like Death March, like.

01:34:20:00 - 01:34:20:06
Speaker 3
Literally.

01:34:20:11 - 01:34:43:04
Speaker 2
Felt just like pushing through. And it was like we got back at like 1:00 in the morning or something and then I woke up like the next morning, like in my sleeping bag with my jacket on, like, no pants, like, so dehydrated. Like I was like, where was I? Like, it was just, like, so epic, like, in terms of long and longer than I thought.

01:34:43:04 - 01:34:45:18
Speaker 2
But that was just our school.

01:34:46:03 - 01:34:47:05
Speaker 1
Days like that are magical.

01:34:47:05 - 01:34:49:12
Speaker 4
Our our race. That part from my brain.

01:34:49:23 - 01:34:55:14
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The water is great. It'll be easy if we find what it's.

01:34:55:20 - 01:35:10:18
Speaker 2
It's totally and like, it's really it's an amazing adventure. It's, it's going to be such a memorable climb and experience for you. Like, it's an epic, beautiful place. Did that pocket glacier slide or whatever up there? Have you heard about that?

01:35:11:13 - 01:35:15:01
Speaker 4
I haven't know. Like this year, you mean or in general?

01:35:16:00 - 01:35:36:12
Speaker 2
I don't know what the conditions are these days, but like back in the day a little while ago is like it was you wanted there was like this sort of glacier that you needed to kind of skirt in front of to get the top of the buttress. And people would wait till that slid to get across because there's this kind of this sea of like slab you need to go through to get to the to the base.

01:35:36:12 - 01:35:42:04
Speaker 2
People would always pay attention to that glacier. I'm not sure what the case is nowadays, but anyway.

01:35:42:06 - 01:36:00:23
Speaker 4
Okay, I'll look into that. Part of my plan as well was on the walk off of my day with scratch with the guy just to pick his brain on on me as well. Yes. So maybe I'll do a chat with you personally as well. That would be great. Yeah. But yeah, yeah. We've just been working our way up with progressively longer and bigger.

01:36:00:23 - 01:36:01:08
Speaker 4
It is.

01:36:02:05 - 01:36:02:15
Speaker 1
Nice.

01:36:02:21 - 01:36:09:17
Speaker 2
Awesome. And Kyle you going to the Hulk. That is super sweet. Yeah, it's. I never been there, but it looks amazing.

01:36:09:17 - 01:36:28:21
Speaker 1
It looks amazing. It looks tough and sustained. It's been on my to do list ever. Like, even before my accident. So I just got to climb first all girl and get strong and and just feel confident in my ability to protect myself. Because lately I've been feeling a little nervous because I'm a heavy climber. I'm like 197 dry and with a rack and a backpack.

01:36:28:21 - 01:36:46:09
Speaker 1
I'm like to 15 to 20. And so, you know, it's a lot of weight thrown around. So I got to like take that into consideration. And that's part of what I'm trying to learn from this guide this weekend is just like, how cautious do I need to be? What should be my strategy as a heavy climber to be protecting myself?

01:36:46:13 - 01:36:51:15
Speaker 1
Like how much run out for a small piece is acceptable, stuff like that, so I can feel more confident.

01:36:51:15 - 01:36:53:04
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:36:53:04 - 01:36:56:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. If there you're doing a route called Good Vibrations.

01:36:57:02 - 01:36:59:09
Speaker 1
It's called Positive Vibrations. It's like the.

01:36:59:13 - 01:37:00:14
Speaker 3
Well the route.

01:37:00:14 - 01:37:03:02
Speaker 1
On on the Hulk.

01:37:03:02 - 01:37:04:22
Speaker 2
You got to bring mine tools for that.

01:37:05:05 - 01:37:06:17
Speaker 3
For sure, just to save you.

01:37:06:17 - 01:37:08:07
Speaker 1
Good idea. Great, great.

01:37:08:18 - 01:37:18:05
Speaker 2
And like. And like the rainbow wall. You mentioned the rainbow. Yeah. Mine tools. We call it the Rainbow Rock. Okay, so it's nice.

01:37:18:17 - 01:37:22:07
Speaker 1
I like. I like your business mind. It's good. That's what you need.

01:37:22:07 - 01:37:22:22
Speaker 3
It's just.

01:37:24:07 - 01:37:25:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely.

01:37:25:23 - 01:37:26:16
Speaker 3
Yeah. I.

01:37:27:00 - 01:37:58:19
Speaker 4
I personally resonate with that, Kyle where it's like I'm also a happier person. Like, right now I'm probably about like 195, 191. My weight fluctuates quite a bit and and so I know for myself like a from your experience seeing lots of videos on Whipper media people does like pulling cans and stuff. And, and I've also had friends who've had experience of like multiple pieces pulling and decking and, and so I know for myself, there's lots of times where like, you know, even on easier climbs, I'll be pulling a bulge or something and I'll have a good piece and I'm like, Well.

01:37:58:19 - 01:37:59:16
Speaker 1
This piece is like.

01:37:59:16 - 01:38:08:04
Speaker 4
I'm fairly confident that I like even if we're running a simulation, this would easily hold my fall. But I'm sitting there going like, okay, but.

01:38:08:07 - 01:38:08:23
Speaker 3
It's one.

01:38:08:23 - 01:38:33:15
Speaker 4
Piece. And if the piece pulls, you're decking like a ledge or a ground fall and like, do I really want to bet my life or my spinal cord or anything on one piece? And my answer is no. You know, it's it's not yes anymore. And I think sometimes it's really easy to conflate climbing videos, you see, of people climbing really vertical rock and they have the affordability.

01:38:33:15 - 01:38:51:11
Speaker 4
And if a piece pulls, they still have another 30 feet to fall in. It's clean, you know what I mean? But when you're climbing five, nine or certain five tens or Chaucer or Alpine or something, and there's ledges and boulders, you don't have that affordability. You know, it's it's it's game over. If a piece pulls in certain situations.

01:38:51:18 - 01:39:11:05
Speaker 4
So yeah, I'm definitely like, I'll double up, you know, I'm pulling across them like, I know this piece is going to hold. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Putting in another piece, I'm making sure. Bomber, it's good. I'm like, yeah, £200 of yelling at this piece pulls my life over. I'm not. I'm not okay with one piece being that the the determining factor between me and that experience.

01:39:11:05 - 01:39:25:02
Speaker 1
For sure I think that the problem is is that I don't know what it is. Maybe it's my lack of experience or the routes that I'm choosing, but there's definitely certain situations where it's like, that's the piece you get. And there's nothing else. It's like, and sometimes it's a black it's a black totem, and that's all you get for the crux.

01:39:25:07 - 01:39:41:15
Speaker 1
And it's just like, well, fuck, you know, like, this is what I have to trust. And there's, there's a point in climbing where you just have to be able to not fall, I'd say, you know, and it's, it's a, it's a balance. Yeah. Of climbing within your abilities and your limits. You got to know where that, that is.

01:39:41:15 - 01:39:55:04
Speaker 1
So you don't get in over your head on bad gear because bad gear is inevitable when you're tried climbing. Unfortunately, it just is sometimes it's just there's not another option. And so if if you're in that kind of situation, you better be climbing. Well.

01:39:56:00 - 01:39:56:21
Speaker 3
Yeah. Mm hmm.

01:39:57:06 - 01:40:22:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And sort of speaking from even from a female perspective, like sometimes when you're in partnerships and you're the girl who the woman, you do a lot of following and seconding track, which is actually great experience, even just, um, you know, first of all, just getting really familiar with crack and moving on it, but even taking the gear, getting familiar with the different placements and all these kinds of things.

01:40:22:10 - 01:40:43:23
Speaker 2
But then yeah, once and then also when I'm on lead, I'm not afraid to also start clean, double up and then reach back and grab it. If I got a long route and I need to take something, sometimes my voice is like, don't do that. Like, that's like bad style or something. But like I have definitely I rather be safe, especially if I know it.

01:40:44:04 - 01:41:06:03
Speaker 2
There's a potential I'll put in like definitely two pieces even if I got to reach back and grab one and take it out. But yeah, it just that just lots of placements and even even with me being scared, it made me overplays. But now I'm like really good at placing gear because I place so much in like got used to putting it just about everywhere.

01:41:06:03 - 01:41:09:01
Speaker 2
So yeah yeah, it's kind of fun.

01:41:09:17 - 01:41:10:08
Speaker 1
It's part of the fun.

01:41:10:14 - 01:41:28:22
Speaker 4
It's part of the fight. I recently had that on the on the ultimate everything there's just like pretty, it's like pretty straightforward, but like this like weird five, nine, like bulge. And it's like a like small roof section that you have to pull on to, which was super awkward and, and it was like this total fall that would have been decking.

01:41:28:22 - 01:41:37:07
Speaker 4
And I had one cam in and I was just sitting there like, I'm just not cool with playing this game. And so I'm like sitting there, you know, this terrible situation.

01:41:37:14 - 01:41:37:22
Speaker 3
Trying.

01:41:37:22 - 01:41:56:01
Speaker 4
To place a piece and then like I, it was the wrong piece. And of course, like, I'm like, oh yeah, fuck. And then like pull that piece. And then eventually I got the next piece and then I pulled through and it was not very graceful. And then I was up there and I did the same thing. I like reached down and back, cleaned the piece, and then popped it up higher.

01:41:56:01 - 01:42:08:17
Speaker 4
And it was just this like whole ordeal and not very graceful, but it was the right thing to do, you know, I was like, this is what needed to be done to actually be safe. You know? And yeah, and it probably made the pitch 40 times harder.

01:42:08:20 - 01:42:09:12
Speaker 3
You know, like.

01:42:09:17 - 01:42:13:10
Speaker 4
Hanging out there, like in the crotch. Terrible move, trying to place.

01:42:13:10 - 01:42:15:19
Speaker 1
And everything was like, it's still like, okay.

01:42:15:19 - 01:42:27:03
Speaker 4
Like that's that's the right that was the right thing to do. And in my estimation, right, like, I know I could have just cleanly pulled this and done, but in the off chance that I didn't, it have been the right call. Right. So, yeah, yeah.

01:42:27:04 - 01:42:27:20
Speaker 1
Absolutely.

01:42:28:00 - 01:42:29:11
Speaker 2
Progress, not perfection.

01:42:29:11 - 01:42:34:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Got it. Exactly. Climb another day.

01:42:34:09 - 01:42:35:18
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:42:36:09 - 01:42:49:07
Speaker 2
Yeah. And you just you just get better over time, but it, it just takes a lot of time to, to get there and all that. So, yeah, it's all good you climb your own, climb your own route, do it your own way kind of thing and yeah.

01:42:49:17 - 01:42:55:16
Speaker 1
Nice. Awesome. Actually have anything else.

01:42:55:16 - 01:42:57:09
Speaker 4
No, I'm pretty good for right now.

01:42:58:06 - 01:42:59:15
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know. I think.

01:42:59:15 - 01:43:01:06
Speaker 4
We've had a pretty interesting conversation and it's.

01:43:01:11 - 01:43:03:12
Speaker 1
Good. It's been super nice.

01:43:03:12 - 01:43:04:00
Speaker 4
How are you feeling?

01:43:04:18 - 01:43:21:04
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think. I think that was pretty good. I mean, that was like 2 hours. Yeah. So, yeah, I feel I there's like so many more tangents we could go on, but like, I feel like we, we did a lot and I feel I feel satisfied with that. So thank you.

01:43:21:05 - 01:43:22:22
Speaker 1
Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much for. Awesome.

01:43:24:06 - 01:43:37:17
Speaker 4
Yeah. No, totally. It's it's been a pleasure talking to you and thanks so much for reaching out. And I really do mean it. I'm already looking at climb on. I'm going to I'm going to buy a couple of mine tools. I'll put them on and I'll have to send you a picture of it. So.

01:43:38:02 - 01:43:48:12
Speaker 2
Yes, please do. Please do. Yeah. And you're going to meet people will start talking to you and asking you about them and like it's just a good icebreaker and everything. So yeah.

01:43:48:20 - 01:43:49:14
Speaker 3
Is it, is.

01:43:49:14 - 01:43:56:20
Speaker 4
It better if someone buys directly from you and your company or does it not matter to you or like, doesn't matter buy from Magpie from my mind does matter.

01:43:58:09 - 01:44:19:10
Speaker 2
Doesn't matter. It really goes to go support climb on aisle and yeah, I mean if you're not in Squamish then you can go to the website and I'll be putting the new ones on online soon. Got actually we filmed a cool commercial in Squamish the other week, so hopefully that'll be out like online and whatnot soon. So yeah.

01:44:20:01 - 01:44:21:10
Speaker 1
Very cool. Nice. Yeah.

01:44:21:12 - 01:44:21:23
Speaker 4
Awesome.

01:44:23:03 - 01:44:23:14
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:44:23:14 - 01:44:25:16
Speaker 1
Well then I guess that's it. Yeah.

01:44:26:02 - 01:44:38:06
Speaker 4
Like I said, thanks so much and really nice talking to you and everything. And hey, I actually personally contact you if that's okay. I would love to pick your brain a little bit more about let's see, probably like just before I go do it, that would that would be really helpful, if you don't mind.

01:44:38:07 - 01:44:55:15
Speaker 2
Yeah, sure. I'll tell you what I remember. I can send you some pics, but yeah, it's just as long as you just take it one step at a time. Go prepared knowing that you'll probably spend the night out there. And the main thing is just get a great weather window and then bring the right snacks and hydration to the best of your ability.

01:44:55:15 - 01:45:18:15
Speaker 2
And I don't know who your partner is, but just having a partner, your comfortable with and all that. But you're going to you made the right call with connecting with the guide to just you'll have so much more confidence in, like you said, moving efficiently and those those efficiencies because you definitely want to be doing that on a on a big big route like that and the route finding.

01:45:18:15 - 01:45:30:23
Speaker 2
But that route finding on that one, but that's that intuitive side and then just read some data and all that before and bring some data with you. And yeah, I can't wait to hear how it goes. And yes, you can reach out after.

01:45:30:23 - 01:45:38:02
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's the game plan. You could be my support group when I have to talk to you about the travel.

01:45:38:02 - 01:45:42:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, I'm so interested in how your descent was. I just remember it being so long.

01:45:43:01 - 01:45:43:09
Speaker 3
But.

01:45:44:07 - 01:45:47:19
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's. That's what I've heard. So.

01:45:47:19 - 01:45:49:10
Speaker 2
Such an amazing area.

01:45:49:23 - 01:45:50:19
Speaker 4
Awesome. All right.

01:45:50:19 - 01:45:51:18
Speaker 1
Well, thanks so much.

01:45:51:18 - 01:45:54:06
Speaker 4
And, yeah, you take care and have a great Catherine.

01:45:54:18 - 01:46:06:17
Speaker 2
And thank you, guys. Thank you so much for like for holding space for these conversations, right? Like you were talking about full circle moments. To me, this is very full circle for me. So, you know, I appreciate very much.

01:46:06:22 - 01:46:21:21
Speaker 4
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Well, I, I know we'll definitely connect again in the future online and stuff like that and as well, you know, if you're ever coming by to Squamish or anything like that, it'd be really nice to meet you in person to get to climb with you. So please don't hesitate to reach out.

01:46:22:18 - 01:46:27:00
Speaker 2
Sweet. Sounds good. Awesome Okay. Sweet. Thanks, guys.

01:46:27:00 - 01:46:27:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, thank you.

01:46:28:00 - 01:46:42:08
Speaker 4
All right, take care.