21 | The Alpha Female Mentality w/ AMGA Guide Lindsey Hamm aka. "The Hamminator"

Summary

In our 2 hour long conversation, we sit down with AMGA-certified guide Lindsey Hamm or so aptly named “The Hamminator”. Hamm is an AMGA-certified single-pitch instructor and a certified rock guide. She has also completed her AMGA Ice Instructor Course….Advanced Alpine Guide courses and currently… is on track to becoming the 18th female ever to receive an IFMGA pin. She has guided and climbed all around the Western US and has spent time in India and China, and at the time of this episode, launching is in the middle of a climbing trip in Pakistan. Her quick and intuitive decision-making combined with genuine laughter, and ability to be unapologetically herself is a contagious force that undoubtedly has helped establish herself as a well-respected professional in the climbing community and an inspiration to anyone who wishes to follow in her footsteps.

We talk about how she found climbing, her stories of three separate ground falls that left her…uninjured, we chat about the art of soloing, and belaying, and…since she is officially the first female on the podcast, we dive into her female perspective of the climbing community, the details of her life as a female guide, and how misogyny can plague the sport, and finally, we hear about what she is currently up to in the steep rocky terrain of Pakistan.

Please rate, review the show, and share this podcast with your friends. Word of mouth is one of the most powerful tools to help us out. 

Contact us:
 IG: @the.climbing.majority
Email: theclimbingmajoritypodcast@gmail.com

Resources:

Learn more about Lindsey Hamm here:

Field Journal | Written by Maggie Shafer // Photography by Luke Hall
https://www.commonclimber.com/profile-lindsey-hamm.html

Common Climber Profile | Written by  Enock Glidden
| https://www.sidetracked.com/fieldjournal/lindsey-hamm-hyping-up-the-climbing-world/

Lindsey Hamm's IG: @hamminator2017

Female Empowering Climbing Groups:

Iris | https://irisalpine.com/

She Moves Mountains | https://shemovesmountains.org/

Flash Foxy | https://www.flashfoxy.com/

She Jumps | https://www.shejumps.org/

Texas Lady Crushers | https://www.texasladycrushers.com/

Steph Davis | https://stephdavis.co/

Transcript

00:00:00:14 - 00:00:23:22
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. Kyle here. Welcome back to the Climbing Majority podcast where Max and I sit down with living legends, professional athletes, certified guides and recreational climbers alike to discuss the topics, lessons, stories and experiences found in the life of a climber. If you haven't already, please subscribe, rate and review us wherever you get your podcasts.

00:00:27:02 - 00:00:49:00
Speaker 1
All right, quickly, before we get started, I had more posters in stock, guys. These things are super professional and have a scannable Spotify link on them. If you want to help out the show by hanging up a team poster in your local climbing gym. Please DM us on Instagram at the dot climbing dot majority or reach out to us via email at the climbing Majority podcast at gmail.com.

00:00:50:13 - 00:01:17:14
Speaker 1
All right, let's dove into today's episode. In our two hour long conversation, we sit down with Amg's certified guide Lindsey Hamm. Or so aptly named The Hammer Natur. Hamm is an amg's certified single pitch instructor and a certified rock guide. She also has completed her AMG Ice Instructor, Course Advanced Alpine Guide Courses and currently is on track to becoming the 18th female ever to receive an IFR.

00:01:17:15 - 00:01:48:20
Speaker 1
MGA pin. She has guided and climbed all around the western U.S. and has even spent time in India and China and at the time of this episode, launching, she is in the middle of a climbing trip in Pakistan. Her quick and intuitive decision making, combined with genuine laughter and an ability to be unapologetically herself, is a contagious force that undoubtedly has helped establish herself as a well-respected professional in the climbing community and an inspiration to anyone who wishes to follow in her footsteps.

00:01:49:11 - 00:02:10:09
Speaker 1
We talk about how she found climbing her stories of three separate ground falls that left her uninjured. We chat about the art of soloing. Elaine And since she is officially the first female on the podcast, we dove into her female perspective of the climbing community. The details of her life as a female guide. And how misogyny can plague the sport.

00:02:11:00 - 00:02:29:09
Speaker 1
And finally, we hear about what she is currently up to in the steep, rocky terrain of Pakistan.

00:02:33:02 - 00:02:42:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, nice. I mean, officially. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the climbing majority. Thanks for for taking your time and your busy schedule right before you leave to speak with us. It means a lot.

00:02:43:12 - 00:02:43:20
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:02:44:04 - 00:02:45:03
Speaker 3
I appreciate it.

00:02:46:13 - 00:02:50:04
Speaker 1
Yeah. So, I mean, I guess, Max, if you're ready, we can kind of just jump in here. Yeah.

00:02:50:11 - 00:03:10:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. You know, so generally for us, like, kind of the structure is like we've obviously added like a little bit of a long form podcast and we kind of really like to get into like the, like. Like who is our guest and what drew them into this lifestyle. You know, like you're like, where did you grow up and how did you get into climbing and stuff?

00:03:10:22 - 00:03:19:05
Speaker 2
And so, you know, if you don't mind just giving yourself like a little bit of an introduction for the audience and then kind of staying there, that's really great. But so we like to start.

00:03:20:14 - 00:03:21:21
Speaker 3
Sweet right now.

00:03:22:02 - 00:03:22:19
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

00:03:23:11 - 00:03:31:00
Speaker 3
I I'm I'm Lindsey Hamm. I'm from Kingwood, Texas.

00:03:31:02 - 00:03:31:11
Speaker 4
Oh.

00:03:32:00 - 00:04:08:16
Speaker 3
So you're definitely a Texas girl at heart. I still have my very traditional ways up me. We're about four or five cowboys. I still own heels, some kitten heels, just in case if I ever go out. So, yeah, I moved from Houston, Texas or Texas, to San Marcos, Texas, in Austin, Texas, like at 18 to go to school and started college, then went over to Texas.

00:04:08:16 - 00:04:09:06
Speaker 4
State.

00:04:09:16 - 00:04:21:14
Speaker 3
And that's where I got a degree. And with a minor in advertising, with a minor in design. I was president. I was president of the advertising club.

00:04:21:14 - 00:04:25:00
Speaker 4
And, you.

00:04:26:08 - 00:05:01:01
Speaker 3
Know, I actually love going charcoal with time, but I meddle into like outdoors people during sleep. That one guy I friend of mine, Connor, brought me to the climbing gym at Texas State, and I thought you wanted to go on a date with me. And I wasn't, I think just friends. It was really funny and cute on my end because I knew.

00:05:02:05 - 00:05:30:07
Speaker 3
But I went to the climbing gym and then I was wheelchair runner. Oh, I didn't like. I dabbled in rock climbing at the time, but it wasn't like until later in my twenties when I. So I had done like five ultras that ultras considered after 26 miles. So you can do like days off. So I'm going to do a couple on my own without any races.

00:05:30:13 - 00:05:52:12
Speaker 3
So I'm sure I've done quite a few. And then when I was a little bit after that, my other friend Josh got me into climbing outside and I was like 25 or 26 is when I really started climbing. And then I met my ex-boyfriend, who was one of the guys process.

00:05:52:12 - 00:05:53:01
Speaker 4
And.

00:05:53:16 - 00:06:32:14
Speaker 3
Kind of just like took the reins whenever I could. And we both kind of grew together in the climbing. We're about the same level. You might have a better sort of things than me and vice versa. This is actually a pretty good partnership with the climbing because I was like, that was about it went both ways. So I dropped what I was doing and because I had moved from Austin to Denver for a job and I actually work at this me media entertainment it's a job where I license out video content for commercials and movies.

00:06:33:05 - 00:06:49:22
Speaker 3
So I did that and then I met Gary, my ex. Like I just got in everything and moved to Durango, Colorado. We're actually a family and then they kind of just like went from heels to suits pretty fast.

00:06:50:04 - 00:06:50:16
Speaker 4
And.

00:06:51:11 - 00:07:17:11
Speaker 3
Started learning the medium of like rock and ice and alpine and ski with him and other friends as well. Like I had a bunch of mentors like Marcus Grant and Eddie Calhoun and all these other humans in that area that has kind of helped me go forward with my career. So it was just recreational or guide guy track.

00:07:17:12 - 00:07:43:05
Speaker 3
So, and there's way more people to which I'll give love to at some point. But yeah, I think like just having an athletic background, like I was cheerleader, you know, like all through high school and you're not authorized with some high school and then that competitive cheerleading. So like all those things. So it was, I think when you have all that underneath, yeah, like you can kind of jump into a lot of different sports.

00:07:43:13 - 00:07:45:03
Speaker 4
If you want. So yeah.

00:07:45:03 - 00:07:47:00
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Like a body of body awareness.

00:07:47:20 - 00:08:05:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think that's that's super interesting. Like I really resonate like I found climbing a little bit later. I say later just because like we see like those youth sport teams where you have like some kid who's like sending like 512 or something like really mad like, but you know, or, or the girls as well are doing that.

00:08:05:23 - 00:08:23:08
Speaker 2
But, you know, so I definitely resonate with that aspect. I'm just kind of curious actually. Like I actually have a little bit of a background in endurance training. Like that's kind of what I got into just before I got into climbing like I did in iron some fondos every time, like one ultra, you know, like how do you feel?

00:08:23:08 - 00:08:40:22
Speaker 2
Like you're propensity to, to suffer through those kind of events and stuff like that, like how and obviously having such a large aerobic base, like how is that like complemented you getting into climbing? You feel like it was just like a hop, skip and a jump to just get there and and it just felt pretty natural for you.

00:08:42:04 - 00:09:27:02
Speaker 3
But I think it's your have been in any athletics as a child and have to go to practice and having like you know, like I had to be in cheerleading by a certain time or I wasn't allowed in, you know, like, or I get punished by doing whatever handstands or backhand swings after practice. I think when you, you have like this structure and as a young child and that's I mean, I had some tough coaches that like I mean, we were throwing up, in fact, you know, so and being in like a very competitive state as well, like a competitor all the time, I'm always practicing.

00:09:27:02 - 00:09:50:12
Speaker 3
So like having that mindset as a child like was easy for me to go into like other sports that I wanted to touch base on. Like running was always like running, but like I was really into long distance and that you're suffering, especially in Texas when it's like 92, like 110 and you had to wake up at two in the morning and start running.

00:09:50:12 - 00:09:51:18
Speaker 3
And that's what I was like.

00:09:51:20 - 00:09:52:04
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:09:52:06 - 00:09:56:21
Speaker 3
So just to get like 14 miles in without and it's be like 90 degrees.

00:09:56:22 - 00:09:58:03
Speaker 4
Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

00:09:58:15 - 00:10:17:12
Speaker 3
So just having that like young grit in general and knowing when you fucking play hard, you play hard, you know? And yeah, like that focus, laser focus is I can feel it when I'm on and I can obviously feel I'm not on and I think the premise that.

00:10:17:12 - 00:10:17:19
Speaker 4
So.

00:10:18:08 - 00:10:38:23
Speaker 1
Yeah your story reminds me a lot of my girlfriend who was a competitive gymnast when she was in her young years. And there's a lot of parallels that I've heard her talk about that you just mentioned just the training and the, you know, the throwing up and the hard coaches and and all that stuff. I definitely think it's an awesome environment for a kid to be in, and especially if they're trying to pursue any sort of athletics later in life because.

00:10:38:23 - 00:11:02:14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I mean, just like you said, picking it up, she transferred just as well. You know, she started climbing when she met me. And she's, you know, she's starting to climb like 11th, you know, within the first set just because of the body awareness and all the training that she received in the past. So super interesting that that that's kind of where you came from with that aspect to your progression and getting into climbing.

00:11:02:14 - 00:11:07:10
Speaker 1
That said, it seemed like you started in a gym. That was that was correct. That's what she said.

00:11:07:10 - 00:11:09:09
Speaker 3
Yeah, definitely in the gym.

00:11:10:13 - 00:11:12:16
Speaker 1
How long in the gym before you transferred outside?

00:11:14:13 - 00:11:17:12
Speaker 3
I think like maybe a couple of weeks know. Right.

00:11:17:16 - 00:11:18:08
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's awesome.

00:11:18:20 - 00:11:26:12
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like maybe even a week. I just remember like them bringing me and I think I started leaving like immediately too, because I.

00:11:26:12 - 00:11:26:23
Speaker 4
Nice.

00:11:27:07 - 00:11:27:15
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00:11:28:04 - 00:11:31:09
Speaker 4
So do you recommend that I know.

00:11:32:05 - 00:11:34:01
Speaker 3
If you want to fucking go for it.

00:11:35:05 - 00:11:35:11
Speaker 4
It's.

00:11:36:04 - 00:12:03:17
Speaker 3
Like my big things. Like at least get some instruction on like like mechanics, things like, hey, what is this rope? Where does it come into play? Kind of like having a little bit of a nice for there. Like I'm like hopefully this person that you're with who's you that has like that this and when I was doing that I went out with guys that like had guys were like their instructor course.

00:12:04:04 - 00:12:31:16
Speaker 3
And so I was pretty lucky to fall into a basket of good eggs. And it was really great for me because they made me like do all the checks and like showed we had a clip and I practiced that prior to like any one. I knew that the fall is weird. So can we talked about that. So for me, I think at the time like I had, I've always had really good people, you know, pushing me along this.

00:12:32:00 - 00:12:59:05
Speaker 3
So it just, it sucks for me when I do see bad, bad things out there in this pitch environment. More so yeah. Type where you're just like cringing like this person's going to get hurt, you know? Yeah. But I think that, like, I'm one that like I'm, I'm speaking for myself, so I just, I know that when I see something and I'm like, I can totally understand what's going on.

00:12:59:05 - 00:13:07:10
Speaker 3
Like, I'm going to like, I'm going to go ahead and go for it. And I think that you just have to have this intelligence and all that about yourself, you know?

00:13:07:11 - 00:13:09:12
Speaker 4
And so, yeah, I.

00:13:09:12 - 00:13:42:20
Speaker 2
Think that sounds just like a lot of, you know, you use your own word like grit, like body self awareness and just like also like understanding, like, like, you know, the classic climbing, like try hard, you know. And so I think there's a lot of that involved which once again, like I generally think like if people are going to have a recipe for success starting out and climbing like that, you kind of know, you know, it's like if you're having second guesses or you're not like jumping on it and you don't have like a pretty big background of athletics or suffering, you know, maybe it's not the right way to go, but obviously it's work

00:13:42:20 - 00:13:45:03
Speaker 2
for you.

00:13:45:03 - 00:13:58:07
Speaker 3
I also think that people that are like really, really good at problem solving tend to do really well as in this sport, you know.

00:13:58:17 - 00:13:59:06
Speaker 1
That makes sense.

00:13:59:12 - 00:14:19:18
Speaker 3
That they can like do puzzles really well or like have some good critical thinking, maybe even with in school. And I think that is something that I've seen too in the young with the young kids. So I've seen that.

00:14:20:07 - 00:14:33:00
Speaker 1
But yeah, that makes sense. It definitely takes it takes a lot of critical thinking and a certain level of intelligence, especially when you start to try to climb. It's like almost more risk mitigation and puzzle solving than it is actually climbing depending on where you're at.

00:14:33:23 - 00:14:35:22
Speaker 3
Totally, yeah, for sure.

00:14:36:02 - 00:14:50:20
Speaker 1
We like to ask kind of this question to round kind of yourself out as like a climber, kind of where are you at right now in terms of grades and kind of like are do you solo? What's your preferred style like if you don't mind sharing some of that kind of specific information?

00:14:51:22 - 00:15:23:05
Speaker 3
Sure. At the moment I am climbing actually pretty well for someone who has been guiding every day since July. Or is are you putting in so climbing like 511 try it out size probably falls. So I haven't had the opportunity to go really see a climbing the these sixes B sevens in the gym and then outside like five and six which I like either I hit or miss on them.

00:15:23:05 - 00:15:48:20
Speaker 3
It's really on the style to it. They're not taking me that long in the sessions to get fit again. Like right now we'll see who's going to Pakistan. So I'm hoping that like all the training I've been doing, like I've read my training stuff on the mountain, you know, so I like doing that, but I do solo. It depends on the solo.

00:15:48:21 - 00:16:11:02
Speaker 3
Like there's a number of climbs that I've done by myself. I think sometimes it's nice to go on a solo climb and if I'm actually feeling it, if I'm not like I'll feel that mountain sense is when I go out or intuition that burning feeling like I'm not doing this today, you know, I'm like, I, I will pick and choose and I will listen to that.

00:16:11:02 - 00:16:36:02
Speaker 3
And that's going to keep me here for a little bit longer. Yeah, like we're climbing, like, probably like 12 right now. Like, that's what I am doing at the gym. So I'm hoping that they've kind of related. I also think I'm in Washington where it's really freaking hot right now. So like, you're just, just totally melting off of the rock.

00:16:36:02 - 00:16:42:01
Speaker 3
So, and I haven't really seen what I've been doing, so maybe I should, like, downgrade myself even more.

00:16:42:01 - 00:16:44:17
Speaker 4
Five levels and I'm starving. So there you go. I mean, it's.

00:16:44:22 - 00:16:46:12
Speaker 1
Still very, very impressive.

00:16:46:17 - 00:16:47:04
Speaker 2
No, for.

00:16:47:04 - 00:17:18:21
Speaker 3
Sure. I mean, for someone who's, like, trying to stay fit, like I'm probably just like 511 now I know that I can always climb to be 11 or ten. Like, you know, like, that's like my beat. Yeah, but yeah, like, like soloing is like a useful practice. It's something that you want to do. I think that's there's, you know, like something to be sad about the media that comes out with soloing and how actually dangerous that is.

00:17:18:21 - 00:17:38:10
Speaker 3
And I think that there's times and places for soloing in the mountains do like guide alpine a lot and I'm like and I climb Alpine a lot where I'm like, I'm coming off the roof. It's more detrimental for maybe on this fucking room with you than not. And I think that practicing soloing is actually can be.

00:17:38:18 - 00:17:39:08
Speaker 4
A good.

00:17:39:08 - 00:17:53:21
Speaker 3
Thing, but we all know that the risk of it and I think that I'm not going to do something that's outside of my wheelhouse one and I'm going to like be pretty particular out of where I'm climbing at. Like how chancy, like what's.

00:17:54:13 - 00:17:54:22
Speaker 4
What's.

00:17:55:08 - 00:17:56:13
Speaker 3
What's the climb and how.

00:17:57:08 - 00:17:58:00
Speaker 4
You know, I.

00:17:58:14 - 00:18:15:05
Speaker 3
Will make sure kind of gone over those that process or those like little checkpoints about the climb. Have I done the climb before? Do you have the right shoes on? And I mentally there, you know, like I guess I just like I'm going through some leg so I can put around the pocket Instagram now.

00:18:15:21 - 00:18:16:02
Speaker 4
Like.

00:18:16:04 - 00:18:17:22
Speaker 3
Yeah, not going to do that.

00:18:18:15 - 00:18:37:11
Speaker 2
I'm just wondering for like our audience, like, so like if you were going to on site solo something obviously like given all this like if you're researching it, you know, the conditions you're doing with bounce sense what like how many grades lower than your normal typical like rope on site is that so we're going to be and then if you're soloing something maybe that you're projecting I don't know if you do that or not.

00:18:37:16 - 00:18:41:11
Speaker 2
Just trying to build like awareness with our audience, you know, to give people an idea that it's like, yeah.

00:18:41:12 - 00:19:09:13
Speaker 3
So I've done actually a59 solo before and that was an on site. It was actually in the Palisades in California. I was I was riding the Palisades a couple of days later, actually, and I had a day use and I was getting three of them. And that those, it's like five, eight, five, nine and I, I sold those and I think I was just like in it and really like I knew that I could do it and I had like a59.

00:19:09:13 - 00:19:30:23
Speaker 3
I climb much harder than that cost, which is higher. But I felt great that day. And I think again, it's like, yeah, I think that if I were a beginner climber, a novice climber, even intermediate, and I'm still shaky in certain parts of my climbing, I'm probably not going to be going solo just yet, you know, like I'm not just going to jump anyway.

00:19:30:23 - 00:19:46:09
Speaker 3
I kind of want to be a mature climber and have gone through a bunch of the grades and I've climbed to a lot of different spots. Then I'd be like, Yeah, I'm sorry. You know, like if I feel the need, I ask a soloist. Yeah, but.

00:19:46:15 - 00:20:03:12
Speaker 2
I think I think soloing just in itself is just like, honestly, I almost view it like an entirely different sport. And like an example I'll give right now is like, have you, do you know Magnus middle mid bow. I think his name is that like Norwegian climber is that really famous YouTube channel? Well, if you don't know him, no worries.

00:20:03:12 - 00:20:22:04
Speaker 2
But he recently did a video where he went soloing with Alex Honnold and Red Rocks and he solos like a59 route that like Alex Honnold, like appropriately chose for him. And this guy climbs like him and he was like really, really rad old and like mentally it was huge battle for him and stuff. And I just think it's such an interesting thing for people to really understand.

00:20:22:04 - 00:20:45:11
Speaker 2
Just like, you know, like if you climb V 15 and on site like 514, you know, like B, C, D, whatever, this guy's climbing, you know, and then you go on a five, nine and you're like, you're like pretty panicked and like, I don't know if I'd ever do this again, you know, it's just like, not that I know from my own experience of soloing, but it's just it just shows that it's it's just almost like a completely different sport, right?

00:20:45:11 - 00:21:02:11
Speaker 2
Because with the rope, this person would just completely walk up the roof, be absolutely no challenge. So I just like getting that kind of information of just like showing a real contrast of what it's what the actual difference of like you look at a really strong climber and then what they're actually going to solo, right? So yeah.

00:21:03:04 - 00:21:12:22
Speaker 3
Well it's all mindset, right? Like it's all mindset. It's like I'm not expecting every climber to ever want to solo even your five.

00:21:13:08 - 00:21:14:08
Speaker 4
15.

00:21:15:00 - 00:21:43:01
Speaker 3
Or I'm sorry, either 14 by 14. Climber Just because they're like that, I'm not going to assume that they're soloists because I'm not I don't think that every climber should be a soloist. I think that it's all in the human like me. Lindsey Hamm will go solo things that I know that I'm psyched about and I want to go climb in.

00:21:43:01 - 00:22:07:23
Speaker 3
I don't have a partner and I know I'm competent and I'm going to go try it. And I don't think I know plenty of really high level climbers that would never solo, you know, and I know some that do. And I don't want anybody to be like, I guess I have to solo if I'm a climber, because that's not what I'm trying to say.

00:22:08:01 - 00:22:39:12
Speaker 3
I think it should be your personal preference. Like you've done your due diligence within yourself, you know that you can go do these things. And I think that for me I got kind of wrapped into it when we kind of fucked up because I, I don't know, guys, a vessel is it's in it's on like it's in the San Juan's in Colorado, kind of near Silverton in Durango.

00:22:39:12 - 00:23:09:16
Speaker 3
Well, I was with my ex-boyfriend and a bunch of our friends, and we sold this like five, six, which most people rope up for. I'm from Texas, fresh off the boat, don't know shit. And I go and do this with them thinking that's a normal thing to do. So I don't know if in my brain that I got kind of like either I, I don't know if it's luck or just like happened to be in the group of people that were solely and it seemed fine.

00:23:10:18 - 00:23:17:11
Speaker 3
And that's how I started climbing. Like, I kind of got thrown into certain situations and I was like, YOLO, you know, like I.

00:23:18:11 - 00:23:19:08
Speaker 4
Was, I just like.

00:23:19:15 - 00:23:48:06
Speaker 3
Had no awareness at the time and that's like, right. So we think about like a bucket versus, you know, experience. Like, my left bucket was really high and my experience was really low, but as my experience goes higher, my luck goes out. And so, I mean, I definitely decked twice to the ground on ropes. So it's not like, you know, I had had some stuff happen and close calls and whatnot.

00:23:48:06 - 00:23:52:09
Speaker 3
So it's like I think my luck was just really high at the time, too.

00:23:52:20 - 00:23:58:18
Speaker 2
So how do you how how did you do that? I'm really I'm really interested in that. Like I'm or what happened.

00:23:59:19 - 00:24:21:14
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I was climbing this route and Durango that Marcus Garcia pulled up and I was trying to do the extension, which is like a 1212 and it's pretty spicy. And I think I was getting like the sickness sense or something, right? The first emails sentiment I improved saying the 11 de qualité part at the bottom in the first and second for free.

00:24:21:15 - 00:24:30:05
Speaker 3
Spread out, put it on you, put it up on leave. So they weren't like it's yet. So that's where he could drill, right?

00:24:31:01 - 00:24:31:09
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:24:31:09 - 00:24:57:00
Speaker 3
So I'm at the second vote. My hell yeah. I'm sending this thing today. Like, I kind of. It's so beautiful, right? So I was like, All right, this is. Well, I my feet are at the second floor, like just like on the same plane. And I slept on, like, in an ice cell, and I took a static fall, and I guess my carabiner when I left.

00:24:57:00 - 00:25:29:20
Speaker 3
My, my, is it. It's two. It's like a sport slash tread climb so like searches for time goes under track one. Well, the first bit like I'm at the second pole I when I left is all right, you got a little bit of a run out. Everything's great. I remember seeing this myself and I fell to the static fall and I guess when I had, like, climbed above my piece or my draw, had the nose hook and sat on the hanger, nothing was open.

00:25:30:09 - 00:25:34:20
Speaker 3
And I now and I crossed within it and fell 25 feet to the ground.

00:25:35:07 - 00:25:36:10
Speaker 4
Oh, my gosh. Wow.

00:25:36:22 - 00:25:55:03
Speaker 3
And my jackboot ass just bounced like a boss because I'm all frickin muscle and tried to get up. Tried to get up and leave again like a psychopath. And I really and then and Kristen. But everybody was like.

00:25:55:12 - 00:26:00:06
Speaker 4
You are not allowed to die. You were like, okay, you.

00:26:01:21 - 00:26:27:02
Speaker 3
Didn't went to the hospital and like definitely had to like like I didn't wear I wasn't wearing a helmet. So what I'm surprised I I'm walking to honest, is the landing area is like just filled with rocks and pointy rocks. And I'm lucky I didn't tell my freaking belly or, you know, like I'm a cannonball. I am one to, like, want to miss.

00:26:27:05 - 00:26:28:01
Speaker 3
I'm falling down.

00:26:32:23 - 00:26:33:07
Speaker 4
Like.

00:26:33:20 - 00:26:55:15
Speaker 3
You know, like I'm surprised she didn't get hurt. And so we we, like, rushed off. And so that was my first deck. And then my second one was at Index Washington and I was on that. All the great powers like this now I've ever had. And I'm like, if I get broken up with like every other weekend was super psyched because I just.

00:26:56:03 - 00:26:56:05
Speaker 4
Been.

00:26:56:08 - 00:27:23:02
Speaker 3
Raging. I'm like hands out of everything. So I so I wasn't and I just ended my six year relationship and I was like on sliding elevens, like in the class Washington are there like five live in the next is like much harder in other places. That's why the climbs are named index high 11 they end up being passage.

00:27:23:21 - 00:27:25:02
Speaker 4
Whoa because there's like.

00:27:25:20 - 00:27:41:05
Speaker 3
So hard. So I was climbing this thing called Shirley I'm like, you know, just being all big headed and cocky because I'm on and so well I don't for the next trip you said and I live off of it and like.

00:27:41:17 - 00:27:42:05
Speaker 4
Hit.

00:27:42:10 - 00:27:51:22
Speaker 3
The ledge and jump on the ground and there's like access, fun people everywhere and everyone's like watching you. I have a helmet on this time and I kind of like.

00:27:53:05 - 00:27:56:06
Speaker 4
Oh, you start laughing.

00:27:56:22 - 00:28:01:23
Speaker 3
That's like my stress, real reaction. And I'm like, Oh, my God.

00:28:02:00 - 00:28:04:20
Speaker 4
Like, she's, I.

00:28:05:10 - 00:28:26:11
Speaker 3
I shrug it off. I lead it again right off the deck. I do not send it, by the way. I am like my legs, like a journal and have a word off like and this is a stem problem I have like I'm hurt in a fire and then like I come back after getting the rope off and this guy's like, on the bear, you know?

00:28:26:16 - 00:28:30:19
Speaker 4
Like, it's like a top to me. Like.

00:28:31:04 - 00:28:32:10
Speaker 2
You want to break up, actually.

00:28:33:16 - 00:28:36:02
Speaker 4
And you've got this really hard, but.

00:28:36:04 - 00:28:37:13
Speaker 2
I'll date you for a week.

00:28:37:13 - 00:28:41:13
Speaker 4
And they were like, Oh, yeah, yeah. I just I'm also like.

00:28:41:22 - 00:29:07:21
Speaker 3
Obviously, I'm like, man, I was like, yeah, there's the two times I, I that and oh, and I did definitely that one more time. Okay. It isn't a fun story. So I was at, I was at the Moab Rotary Park or whatever, and I was doing my keyboard session and I mom this really like I finally got like eight or ten, like really small and I was like, Great, yeah.

00:29:08:03 - 00:29:17:17
Speaker 3
Now I'm trying real hard and I freaking take off my keyboard flat right on my back, like pretty good. Like I'm pulled on a straight up is.

00:29:20:17 - 00:29:21:05
Speaker 4
And it's it.

00:29:21:20 - 00:29:23:16
Speaker 1
It's a miracle that you're not injured.

00:29:24:14 - 00:29:27:20
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

00:29:28:00 - 00:29:44:04
Speaker 2
So so like, how do you feel like those situations have like affected you as a climber? Like, have they kind of just been totally brushed off and years like, you know, this is just part of the trade and you know, like you said, you're like it's gone down a bit. Or do you feel like that has actually impacted you and you're doing certain things to mitigate that?

00:29:44:04 - 00:29:55:00
Speaker 2
Like, I'm just wondering, like your psychology around those kind of incidents because obviously they're like they're like you're you're pretty rad and super stoked, but like, they're obviously really serious in a sense, if that makes sense, right? Sure.

00:29:55:00 - 00:29:56:02
Speaker 4
Yeah, for sure.

00:29:56:10 - 00:30:20:19
Speaker 3
They have definitely impacted me. Like I still get nervous. Like I feel like if I know where is this time index? Like the first and second goal, like like it makes me nervous. So I actually double up my like, draws now on that type of thing just if there's any like to. I also like have to have a really good layer.

00:30:20:19 - 00:30:45:18
Speaker 3
Like I'll have to like for some reason I'll just get like focus. I don't have a layer. That's right. Me. Because then like, all, like everything's going to fall apart too, right? Even though I guys like I have guided like 11 plus triads with my clients, but my clients are really good players who like help like, like cancel out some.

00:30:45:18 - 00:31:07:06
Speaker 3
My fear with like your part is I was like, okay, like this person's going to catch me regardless of what happens. Like, I'll be okay. So like, but there's been times even sport climbing where I like way more fearful, like way more fearful, losing track trampolining because one, I just feel like I've climbed above my classes so much.

00:31:07:06 - 00:31:35:03
Speaker 3
And with sport climbing, when I did love my piece that one time I have PTSD for sure from it, and I get way more nervous sport climbing than I do drug planning, even if, like the tribe climb is going to be a bigger fall because it didn't happen. Like my equipment didn't fail. When I when I checked the second time, it was me being a freaking idiot and not cocky.

00:31:35:11 - 00:31:54:05
Speaker 3
And you know what the climb was like. Slap in the face is like, no, that you're going down, you know, like, yeah, respect the this is kind of the time. Yeah. Like if you say girl and be safe because you know you want three pieces and before the rope really comes into play and like I just was stupid, but the first one was like, legit.

00:31:54:05 - 00:32:13:23
Speaker 3
Like, wow. Like, I actually saw physics happen. I saw it go on the minor axes like that, like cross bullet with axes. And it was like, that's something that like you get to learn at like some of these you can read about and see. But like I actually experienced like that. So like for me, like.

00:32:14:07 - 00:32:14:18
Speaker 4
You know.

00:32:15:18 - 00:32:33:04
Speaker 3
Sometimes I get nervous like carabiners, you know, and I'm like, I'm just going to double this up, you know? That's not necessary, but it just helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's some days where I get high 80 and I'm like, Dude, I'm not going to lead to is going to be a topic of your own. That's true.

00:32:34:06 - 00:32:55:18
Speaker 3
Yeah. But sometimes I have to overcome it and be like, you know what? Stop. You're fine. That one, that's not going to happen. Every time I go out Caribbean are going to like snap like that. Yeah. So for me it's like not well my brain to get the best of me and just like be like calm and confident.

00:32:55:18 - 00:33:05:23
Speaker 3
And sometimes what I've learned from my friend Law, they told me like, just don't take a fall on your climb prior. Then maybe for nervous you'd take.

00:33:05:23 - 00:33:06:18
Speaker 4
A week.

00:33:07:15 - 00:33:12:05
Speaker 3
Lead small even if it's on gear or or just to get it over with. And then it's like.

00:33:13:03 - 00:33:13:18
Speaker 2
It's out there.

00:33:13:19 - 00:33:14:10
Speaker 3
You're good?

00:33:14:17 - 00:33:16:02
Speaker 4
Yeah, it's out there.

00:33:16:13 - 00:33:27:13
Speaker 3
You know. And when I had was just trying this other time, I just needed to take the fall a couple of times and I took the fall a couple times before. I even like really went for the time and out a whole lot.

00:33:27:16 - 00:33:28:06
Speaker 4
So yeah.

00:33:28:17 - 00:33:33:12
Speaker 3
Because I had already ruined my answer. It was about it was so good.

00:33:33:15 - 00:33:40:02
Speaker 1
You had mentioned before that you were looking for a good player. What characteristics do you look for and what does that mean to you?

00:33:41:03 - 00:33:57:10
Speaker 3
Oh, that's so good. So I think it's more of like the sounds of like, you know, wokeness, but like, you know, I kind of feel the vibe between us. Is it like, you know, I want to feel good energy. Like, I'm like, you.

00:33:57:10 - 00:33:57:14
Speaker 4
Can.

00:33:58:09 - 00:34:17:18
Speaker 3
Feel each other's like anxieties. I believe. And we're like, maybe we're just not like, I don't know. There's like, there's some people who are my best friends and it could be like side wise, you know, like, I have a friend that's like we followed me and I love her is probably one of the best freaking believers out there.

00:34:17:18 - 00:34:31:22
Speaker 3
But I get, I get so scared them and like, destroy her. Like, I'm going to kill her. I can't do it. And like, and there's and we've talked about that and like she's caught me on big patches before and then like, I just need you to touch me, you know, like once or twice so I can feel comfortable with it.

00:34:31:22 - 00:34:59:12
Speaker 3
And I think it's just more of like communication to, like how we've communicated on the phone prior times climbing, if it's like now like expectations, like how I'm feeling today. I know it sounds like a lot, but like I do ask these questions or at least reveal them whenever I'm going out. I'm like, Hey, like, I was really psyched yesterday, but today I'm not like I might be a climber.

00:34:59:12 - 00:35:10:19
Speaker 3
Are you are you okay with that? It's like it's about the person or both of us, like listening to each other about what's going on the week, the month.

00:35:10:19 - 00:35:10:21
Speaker 4
The.

00:35:10:23 - 00:35:40:11
Speaker 3
Day. Like everything changes. So I think that when you can listen to your partner, that's a freakin great thing. And of course I want to know that they can catch me. May not use their advice and like obviously they've gone through some training and you know, like there's some things that I've learned with like the lengths smaller people or than me, I weigh like 145 and then I have like someone who's like much smaller, like £100, like I have to do something different.

00:35:41:09 - 00:35:42:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So let's.

00:35:42:10 - 00:35:42:18
Speaker 4
Let's.

00:35:43:08 - 00:36:03:20
Speaker 1
Let's stop right there because that's actually a question that I wanted to ask you. Um, you know, the, the weight disparity between leader and Blair, especially when you're climbing trade routes, you know, because they do, they have invented their own device for sport routes and that's been effective. You know, I'm 200, £200, probably 8 to 10 with a full rack.

00:36:04:03 - 00:36:25:08
Speaker 1
And, you know, my girlfriend is like at £100. And so that's like a big weight disparity. And so it freaks me out whenever I have her belay me, you know, for people in our circumstances like yourself as well with the with a lighter. Blair what kind of steps can you take to kind of help alleviate the stress and make it safer if if that's possible at all?

00:36:26:19 - 00:36:30:00
Speaker 3
Yeah, like, say, throwing a multi pitch, right? Yeah.

00:36:30:00 - 00:36:32:21
Speaker 1
I mean, even single pitch trad route, like.

00:36:33:00 - 00:36:33:16
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:36:34:15 - 00:36:56:15
Speaker 3
Ground anchors like ground anchors, you know, like that's the one to think about, right? And training her about how much slack needs to be in the system and like kind of going through that motion, that's a huge thing to or whoever it is. I think that like struggling.

00:36:56:19 - 00:37:12:02
Speaker 1
What kind of distance between the ground anchor and your players should there be? Like how how far should they get pulled up to allow a dynamic catch with the rope rather than being like anchored a foot away from the ground to like, what kind of distance is best.

00:37:13:08 - 00:37:34:15
Speaker 3
Right? Like we want we don't want to be super far from the crag, right? We want to be a little bit closer to the cracks and hoping that you have that ability to have the rope. You know, like I think it's more of like placement of where you're at specifically like some ground anchors, you might have to have a really long tether, right, so that you can stay close.

00:37:35:07 - 00:37:57:13
Speaker 3
So the big thing is like, I don't want to fly five like 15 feet into the air, obviously. Right? Like, I think like what's the first goal? Like, what do you think like the average height is to the first of all climbing jib and it just like it's 1015. Okay. So, so like that says like usually like I go up to the first.

00:37:59:04 - 00:37:59:18
Speaker 4
Bowl, you.

00:38:00:01 - 00:38:17:03
Speaker 3
Know, whenever I don't have a ground anchor on someone's as big as you. So like maybe having that, like, I don't want to go, like, I want to be able to fly up like five feet and keeping me to the ground. Like, I don't want to be hitting my partner either. Right.

00:38:17:07 - 00:38:17:14
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:38:18:01 - 00:38:40:19
Speaker 3
And so, I mean, I think that I would have to really like I haven't measured that out. So yeah, that's fine. But I just know what specifically with because you know, it's like people of similar bodies or body weight. Like I know that I don't have to give them a whole lot. Like I'm going to give them a proper amount of slack out like that smile and I'm going to probably like counterbalance.

00:38:41:00 - 00:38:58:10
Speaker 3
Counterbalance in a lot, you know, and then with the smaller person, it's like, I've done this with my friend, why pause the rope and then throw it out? So I'm throwing out the slack a little bit more so pausing it, rowing it, and it gives her a softer catch.

00:38:58:11 - 00:38:58:18
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:38:59:04 - 00:39:19:23
Speaker 3
We're trying to give soft pitches, not hard edges. And I think that there's time and places for hard pitches. But, you know, when you have someone that's the crutches, like right the beginning, you know, you don't want to get you really don't want to slam into the wall because how many times in their feet really hit the wall without them being, like, annoyed, getting angry and then also getting.

00:39:19:23 - 00:39:21:00
Speaker 4
Hurt, you know.

00:39:21:05 - 00:39:21:17
Speaker 3
Produces.

00:39:21:21 - 00:39:28:06
Speaker 2
Like worse on whether it's a bolt or a piece would depend as well to holding in the system. Not necessarily. Yeah.

00:39:28:12 - 00:39:35:06
Speaker 3
So yeah, totally. So like there's so many things to work on and I think a lot of it's trial and error with your partners.

00:39:35:09 - 00:39:35:22
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:39:36:21 - 00:39:38:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. Have you tried.

00:39:39:13 - 00:39:41:01
Speaker 1
Are you familiar with the OMA device.

00:39:42:04 - 00:39:44:11
Speaker 3
I, I see that the craggs now.

00:39:44:22 - 00:39:45:05
Speaker 4
Okay.

00:39:45:06 - 00:39:48:15
Speaker 3
Very cool because don't you do it to like the second or something or the first.

00:39:48:15 - 00:39:50:02
Speaker 1
All Yeah. It's as long as.

00:39:50:02 - 00:39:50:16
Speaker 3
They first bolts.

00:39:50:17 - 00:40:03:11
Speaker 1
High enough. Yeah. It adds friction to the system and it helps a lot. I was just curious if you had any onsite practice with using it for for a tried climb like possibly building no directional piece at the base or something like that.

00:40:04:16 - 00:40:07:03
Speaker 3
Not yet. But I know now that you say that.

00:40:07:13 - 00:40:08:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, I thought.

00:40:08:17 - 00:40:13:23
Speaker 3
That's I mean, like it's a new piece that I should explore, like, I haven't explored yet, and.

00:40:14:00 - 00:40:14:07
Speaker 4
Mm hmm.

00:40:14:11 - 00:40:25:16
Speaker 3
Maybe one I haven't had the opportunity is maybe I just in the little old school or things and that's fine. But like, I've been seeing it more and I'm like, cool. That's really smart, you know?

00:40:25:17 - 00:40:26:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's. It's a lifesaver.

00:40:26:18 - 00:40:54:21
Speaker 2
I've never used one personally, but the feedback that I'd gotten, I used to work at an outdoor retailer store, like selling all the equipment and stuff, mountain climbing, co-op and the feedback that I receive from people use it is like it can give you a pretty hard catch. So like if you do something really large or you're like climbing with your kid or something, it seems like like a really good idea, but like potentially if you were like climbing on gear or something and you didn't want to have like a really hard catch and once again, totally anecdotal, you know, like second hand information.

00:40:54:21 - 00:41:10:12
Speaker 2
So I don't think it should deter people from looking into it or buying you. And I think you probably get some good reviews online, but that that's what I've gotten anecdotally is like it's going to be a harder catch. Like you don't have as much versatility to actually change within the system if you want to. So that's a drawback.

00:41:10:14 - 00:41:28:16
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think I think you raised an interesting point with that. I think that if the disparity isn't substantial, that, yeah, the device is going to pull a lot more friction in there and add a harder catch. Whereas if the disparity is really, really large, it's going to kind of bring those forces to a more manageable level.

00:41:29:02 - 00:41:45:00
Speaker 2
Like you said, Lyndsey, like you might want a hard catch or a soft catch at the beginning and then you might want to swap that at the end, depending on how much time is right. Like you might want to actually cater what's going on and you can't really do that if there's the device that's going to fix the amount of friction in the system.

00:41:45:08 - 00:41:48:04
Speaker 2
So I think that's another interesting aspect to think about.

00:41:48:04 - 00:42:21:08
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, it's always those pros and cons of the new technology like, right, like if I have a ground anchor, I can actually play with the rope then a little bit more where I'm standing, especially if I kept the slack out of the system for me to that grounding, right? Like I'm keeping tension and then controlling rest of the rope, you know, that the slack would not as much slack that's going on whoever climber that that's on the other end of the rope I think also like Yeah.

00:42:21:08 - 00:42:33:17
Speaker 3
With with those devices like I also just, I just never have used it yet. Maybe I might. Maybe next time I'm with the friend that has an all out cool.

00:42:33:17 - 00:42:36:02
Speaker 4
Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. I'm sorry.

00:42:36:02 - 00:42:36:19
Speaker 3
I can give you that.

00:42:36:22 - 00:42:37:23
Speaker 1
No, it's all good.

00:42:38:02 - 00:42:46:19
Speaker 2
All good. I'm. I'm curious. What you like guiding clients. You do, like, have a preference whether a client uses an 80 year Gregory like, is there a preference there for you?

00:42:48:01 - 00:43:17:01
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that, like, if I'm rotating with them or anything harder than okay, there's a couple of things that like one is the client. I asked them like, what are you more comfortable climbing with our billing with? And they're like, I idling all the time. I've done patches or with my Etsy or they say that about their Gregory And maybe I've never climbed with them before.

00:43:17:08 - 00:43:43:15
Speaker 3
I tend to side on the error of like what they're more comfortable with. Yeah, I do bring a great greeting. Sometimes I'll show them, but I've also don't want to. Like there's pros and cons of switching. They're like they're familiar or I like, I don't want to like get sandbagged by like bringing a rope and then they're short roping me and I'm actually practicing.

00:43:43:15 - 00:43:45:19
Speaker 3
It pulls me off the roof, right? Yeah.

00:43:45:19 - 00:43:47:12
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:43:47:12 - 00:44:10:17
Speaker 3
And then worried about them. There's like, what if they don't touch me? Like the ropes slightly. They're their device. Well, there's ways I can prevent that, but not maybe. Fine. The first little bit is like the cracks. I'll put a knot further down the rope. And so with an Etsy. So if I do fall, I'm not going it possibly not going to hit the ground.

00:44:12:08 - 00:44:38:23
Speaker 3
So there's like little things that I, I can do now if the Gregory like, you know, hopefully I can do a nice little tutorial at the base of our climb and just kind of go over the Gregory And I make sure like, show me how you see it out slap like we're going to go over this. We do a couple like practice runs and then we go there and in there sometimes I'm like, just speed.

00:44:39:00 - 00:45:04:05
Speaker 3
We haven't lost. Like, I'm going to slide. Yeah. I felt like if the grade is getting harder, I'm going to slide on. We're going to learn with the grade three and I'll take time to teach them that. Now, if I'm in the Alpine, I'm doing ATCs or I'm bringing a mega jewel with me because the mega jewels light and it's a third hand.

00:45:04:23 - 00:45:23:19
Speaker 3
So there's all these different things and it depends on the grade too. For me, it's like if it's only a59 I'm probably is that you can design with an ATC in the alpine it's really fine like I'm but for so for gaining up to ten D 11 from my own a little bit more security for me.

00:45:24:10 - 00:45:36:22
Speaker 2
Well I was just saying I've never actually personally used the mega jewel, but I'm familiar with it. It has the essentially the the indent for the carabiner to clip the rope. So it's like hypothetically self locking, even though they don't say it's like a hands off device, right?

00:45:37:01 - 00:46:04:14
Speaker 3
Yes, I do see I see blocking and not locking. So I don't use that terminology either because nothing is hands free. And so as seen abilities as I can see our or guide adc guide river so all those things but it's just like a lighter weight and it has a third hand as well. So just like with you just have to load it correctly how the directions have asked you to load it.

00:46:04:14 - 00:46:15:12
Speaker 3
So then it becomes a calming device. If someone were to fall and it breaks it. Yep. So it's just like a little bit different.

00:46:16:15 - 00:46:40:23
Speaker 2
I think that's a really interesting point though is like if you are in the Alpine because obviously like there's a Ara, there's falling, but like you could even go to like falling ice or falling rock, right? If you're on the head and they're like knocked out, you're all of a sudden re soloing pretty much, right? Like if they have an ADC or something where is at least like with a Greek Re or something that has that so-called third hand, there's that little extra degree of error rate which.

00:46:40:23 - 00:46:41:02
Speaker 1
Is.

00:46:42:04 - 00:46:54:11
Speaker 3
Yeah, but think about but think about with ice or alpine degrees don't do well in ice. So I'm going to be thinking about that as well when I'm climbing with people.

00:46:54:21 - 00:46:55:05
Speaker 4
Like.

00:46:55:12 - 00:47:20:15
Speaker 3
Is there the pilot that I can use instead of the Greek? Like there's like other people devices that actually work if it's been frozen too. And so, you know, making sure that when you've read the directions or have done your research on the devices, depending on the discipline that you're using it with, just pack appropriately.

00:47:21:20 - 00:47:46:16
Speaker 1
And I think that's that's actually a really good point. I've actually never actually heard someone speak to belay devices like that. I think they're it's a cool way to think like there are different modalities for each belay device and we tend to think like, oh, there's like 15 to choose from. Let me just pick one. But there, there seems to be an actual like use for each device and you can have an array of them and choose the appropriate tool for the task you're trying to complete.

00:47:47:11 - 00:48:15:03
Speaker 3
Right? Like with skiing, you have like I have four different pairs that I'm sure no more skiers. I like seven pairs of skis because they have something each one of them does something for the application or the order for the day. So I mean, we we have that ability and I'm sorry it cost so much, but once you have, it is an investment and then you can choose your your device for the name and it's nice and squared pair, but not so.

00:48:15:03 - 00:48:17:19
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'm I'm sorry you go.

00:48:18:23 - 00:48:44:09
Speaker 3
Oh one thing to go back about the billing to having that catching spot and I wanted to say something about like patching hard patches and soft edges like this one that I just was working on. I was happy to have a little bit of a harder catch because there's a ledge editor off of the ledge. So I just wanted to like speak one little thing about that.

00:48:44:09 - 00:48:58:12
Speaker 3
Like it is terrain assessment where like if I want them to get over lit or not fall on to something, I'm going to that's going to dictate the amount of slack to. Right. Totally. So I just can't.

00:48:59:19 - 00:49:13:18
Speaker 2
Or I was saying like even potentially if you've just climbed and your next piece and there's a ledge below you maybe double up because like if the piece pulls your decking, right, it's like the same thing as having like one piece between you and the ground. Maybe.

00:49:13:18 - 00:49:19:04
Speaker 3
Right. So being protected. Yes. I just want to tap that just for 2 seconds. Sorry.

00:49:19:14 - 00:49:19:21
Speaker 4
No, no.

00:49:20:01 - 00:49:21:18
Speaker 1
Yeah, no, it was great. Great information.

00:49:21:23 - 00:49:55:09
Speaker 2
Really great point. I know, Colin, we've talked about this a lot where it's like there's this, like interesting aspect to like tried climbing where it's like, okay, you get in and the grades are super easy, but the falls are actually all way works like five, six, two, five. I'm like all of your falls are like cheese grater and you're decking like you're hitting things and like they're quite terrible so it's like, okay, the climbing is easier and more straightforward in an aspect, but like, you know, it's not like some vertical, you know, five, ten or something where it's like, oh, like I can fall feet to my next piece that's in like a perfect split

00:49:55:09 - 00:50:06:09
Speaker 2
or crack, and it's going to hold me and I'm okay. It's like if you fall eight feet, you're going into like a boulder and you really need to assess to really differently because the consequences are there. They're very real, right?

00:50:06:23 - 00:50:43:00
Speaker 3
Right. I mean, yeah, with Alpine is a little bit different. Right. You've got maybe you don't have like you're saying like the splitter cracked and your pieces are pretty far apart. So in between that protection, I'm banging on rocks to see if they're good prior to pulling on them. Yeah. I mean, like, be thoughtful about my two selections are the boots and I'm climbing with up to five the climbing boots that are going to be on the wall or should I wear rock shoes because my movement's top there.

00:50:43:14 - 00:51:10:18
Speaker 3
But I, you know, I'm like all this like helps you build up to being successful, not from where you're like what harness that you have on your boots, like everything, your rope, like all those things, your partner, your mindset, your placement. It all builds up to being safe. Like safe ish. Another safe, safe ish. Yeah, my. But with the pieces.

00:51:10:18 - 00:51:33:04
Speaker 3
Yeah. Like even with a good, like an Etsy or Gregory like having not that many uses in an Alpine. Yeah. You're, you have to put a good piece in before an after critical moments. So like make sure you're doing that. Like there's no point to like, just run it out just to run it out. Like, let's be smart, place it.

00:51:33:05 - 00:51:34:13
Speaker 3
This is where they need to be placed.

00:51:34:19 - 00:51:34:21
Speaker 4
To.

00:51:34:21 - 00:51:58:14
Speaker 3
Protect yourself in the midst of the cracks and on easier trying to like complacency happens on the easiest freaking spots of climbing. I know I've fallen off since freaking five six. I mean, like here, but I'm about right and like, I should have a better person, you know? Or like, I could have taken it easier.

00:51:58:14 - 00:52:00:17
Speaker 4
Fall out. So yeah.

00:52:01:01 - 00:52:07:10
Speaker 3
I think that's like the big thing with, you know, whatever we're talking about with all the timings.

00:52:08:07 - 00:52:09:06
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

00:52:09:06 - 00:52:11:10
Speaker 2
I've paid the complacency price, so.

00:52:12:13 - 00:52:13:22
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:52:14:02 - 00:52:15:19
Speaker 2
It's very real. Unfortunately.

00:52:16:08 - 00:52:39:01
Speaker 1
It sounds like you've had a lot of time to work on your athletic portion and the, I would say the athlete portion of your your climbing career. But here you are as as a professional guide as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about the balance between pursuing goals as an athlete and also goals as a as a guide, as a career?

00:52:39:21 - 00:52:41:09
Speaker 3
Got it so freakin hard.

00:52:42:05 - 00:52:44:02
Speaker 4
It's like.

00:52:44:22 - 00:52:47:09
Speaker 3
I just like I'm always tired.

00:52:48:02 - 00:52:48:15
Speaker 4
And.

00:52:49:05 - 00:53:10:13
Speaker 3
I'm, you know, like, right now. So I'm in that process, right? Like I am training as an athlete and I'm training because I have I have a expedition that's coming up in a couple of days. Coming up. Then I'm also training for my Alpine exam at the same time.

00:53:11:12 - 00:53:11:20
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:53:12:02 - 00:53:13:13
Speaker 1
So you're going to do both.

00:53:14:14 - 00:53:17:04
Speaker 4
Entirely differently if.

00:53:17:04 - 00:53:24:09
Speaker 3
You because this is my thing and this people are probably like, you're overdoing it, which I know I am, but it's what I can.

00:53:24:15 - 00:53:24:21
Speaker 4
It's.

00:53:25:14 - 00:53:46:08
Speaker 3
It's the only way right now. So is see if I have a trip on Monday and I just got off the trip on Sunday. That Sunday after I hike down, I go to the fucking gym and I start off with stretching. Then I do like a little session, like a just a warm up and I, it depends on like what I'm working on.

00:53:46:08 - 00:54:02:19
Speaker 3
Like, okay, well, I'm going to go do four by fours today because I need to work on my power and my endurance part and then I'll do like maybe some like maintenance on like weights afterwards and then I'll switch it like then on the day that I can, or maybe the next morning if I have time, I'm not feeling too bad.

00:54:02:19 - 00:54:27:14
Speaker 3
I'll do a bunch of stretching, I'll do my abs in some like playing board sessions and I'm guiding and then I'll bring sometimes I'll bring my hay board or my blocks out there with me. And I do like a line like I'll have like somewhat of a rest day, but really like I'll work out too as I'm guiding and then I'll come home and like literally go to the gym that night and do this like all the time.

00:54:27:14 - 00:54:45:08
Speaker 3
And, you know, I'm probably doing it totally wrong. And people that, like, you're going to get hurt. I have not gotten hurt yet. I do a lot of stretching and I do like make sure that I'm not like if I'm feeling weird about something and I come off really quickly and I'm like, I'm done. I'm done for the night.

00:54:45:12 - 00:55:10:18
Speaker 3
Like, I don't need to keep going. Like, I'm pretty good about that, but like usually I'm not this back to back with things because I'm always going on a trip. But like sometimes I get to like train like two months prior before like dieting season or like maybe a small climbing trip. And then I'm like, Oh, I got to focus primarily on my, my personal climbing.

00:55:10:18 - 00:55:32:13
Speaker 3
And now I get to go into my guides. Right now it's and so like I like what I have in me and what a big wall climb. I've been in the Alpine, but all I can do right now is be really strong with my fingers. And like, so I literally, like, go to the gym and just climb as many times as I can in the day, sometimes like in my session.

00:55:33:01 - 00:55:49:16
Speaker 3
And then I just make sure I do a little bit of weight training as well. And then yeah, it's been kind of freaking hard because I didn't want to go into Steamvr or my fingers were always going to have to do Pecha. I have to do catch up right now. Like my fingers are really strong. I'm actually really psyched.

00:55:49:22 - 00:55:54:17
Speaker 3
What I need to do is not going to the gym today, tomorrow, the next day, the next day. Okay.

00:55:54:17 - 00:55:56:03
Speaker 4
So that's I feel like.

00:55:56:03 - 00:55:58:08
Speaker 2
That sounds like a pretty hard task for you, actually.

00:55:58:08 - 00:55:59:11
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

00:56:01:10 - 00:56:36:14
Speaker 3
This psychopath did not go to the SVP Seattle Bouldering Project in the next couple of days. Because I just duffel on risk because I trained. I did a really good job of training. Like I feel like I kept myself really healthy. I ate really, really well this entire summer. I was able to keep my cardio up. I was able to keep my mental stability with like going from one client to the next client and then trying to have like a social life or even have a relationship with the man is like, so frickin hard too.

00:56:36:14 - 00:56:56:17
Speaker 3
So I kind of had to cut out, like, certain things that were priority to me. And right now, my priorities, me and I want to go to Pakistan and I want to do really good job. So what I did was just be alpine strong, just like climbing strong. And then I brushed up on my other aid stuff as well, just like at home when I can.

00:56:56:17 - 00:57:14:17
Speaker 3
And I think that like, you know, I have a really good, like I'm pretty structured. So I was able to still have some rest needs even if some people are like, that's not a rest day. That was my rest day, though. Like even if it was going home, like hiking down, that was like kind of a rest day for me.

00:57:15:01 - 00:57:39:16
Speaker 3
Even though I have a giant pack on, I was like it, just like how it had to be and yeah, this is the I think I just was like uber focused on trying to keep everything tight. And I did and I'm excited for a break from diving 100%. But I yeah, I think it's like a hard one to tackle.

00:57:39:16 - 00:58:03:21
Speaker 3
And good thing I've had like a couple coaches prior to help me kind of regulate like what am I working on today? Where I wasn't so super sporadic about my workouts is like, All right, today I'm hitting boarding and I'm weight training. The next day or next I'm going out and four by four, okay, the next time I go out, I'm going to go to the vertical world and I'm going to do laps at the gym and I'm going to read everything I can and then top rope.

00:58:04:14 - 00:58:10:13
Speaker 3
So like there was a tension there. It wasn't just like I'm randomly going to like I had intentions every time I went out.

00:58:10:18 - 00:58:11:20
Speaker 2
So totally. Yeah.

00:58:12:09 - 00:58:18:23
Speaker 3
And I mean, that's where it is. And then I just ate really, really well and that was like my, my biggest thing.

00:58:20:00 - 00:58:42:10
Speaker 1
I yeah, I mean, it definitely comes down to just setting goals and sticking to, to what is your priority in your life. And it definitely seems like you have made some sacrifices in certain areas of your life. And it's cool that, you know, I've seen a lot of guides. They struggle with these two paths and it seems like, you know, you've let go of a lot of other things just to focus on these two paths and you've successfully kind of balance them both.

00:58:42:10 - 00:58:45:00
Speaker 1
So, so good on you. That's that's very impressive trying.

00:58:45:06 - 00:58:46:20
Speaker 3
Listen, I'm trying some days.

00:58:47:14 - 00:58:48:05
Speaker 4
I just want.

00:58:48:05 - 00:58:49:14
Speaker 3
To avoid random the like not.

00:58:51:03 - 00:58:51:10
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00:58:52:21 - 00:59:14:22
Speaker 2
I also don't like that that type of training that you're describing like when I think of it like I'm, my knowledge is rudimentary but like I still have quite understanding of like physiology and exercise training and it's like clearly your massive background in athletics and sports and ultrarunning, you know, your really large aerobic base, those kind of things allow you to recover a lot faster, your mentality.

00:59:14:22 - 00:59:36:18
Speaker 2
And then also just like having a really high like intuition and awareness of your own body and knowing when to push and when to not, right? Like somebody just starting off in the sport of climbing, if they went to push themselves, the mentality you're talking about, they're probably just going to end up in a massive deficit and debt and then need to like take a week off and be like, wow, like I'm exhausted and overtraining, right?

00:59:37:03 - 00:59:53:09
Speaker 2
So there is really like fine line to to toil there. But like when you do have the stars aligned or the circumstances you have, which is like the mentality, the aerobics background. And like I said, I think you'd probably be the wrong person to go sit at a beach with for three days, you know?

00:59:53:09 - 00:59:55:13
Speaker 4
You know, not no.

00:59:55:13 - 00:59:59:19
Speaker 2
Like your personality. Just like I feel a version of that would be like, I'm going to go around the beach and do.

00:59:59:19 - 01:00:03:01
Speaker 1
Like 600 push ups and like jump to where I'll be like, okay, totally.

01:00:03:01 - 01:00:04:22
Speaker 4
Like, you know, you know.

01:00:05:06 - 01:00:12:18
Speaker 3
I'm actually the I, I agree with you, but I am going to be like, I'm really good at listening and chilling.

01:00:12:19 - 01:00:13:03
Speaker 4
Okay.

01:00:14:02 - 01:00:30:10
Speaker 3
Chilling. But like, I like I plan on doing a solo mission to Hawaii for like three or four days by myself just so I can see some turtles and, and swimming around or anything else.

01:00:30:10 - 01:00:35:15
Speaker 4
So you guys, I mean, yeah, I want a picture of.

01:00:36:19 - 01:00:38:02
Speaker 2
You on Instagram. So I will.

01:00:38:02 - 01:00:39:00
Speaker 4
Say posting.

01:00:39:01 - 01:00:39:10
Speaker 2
The beach.

01:00:39:10 - 01:00:41:02
Speaker 4
Workout, you're going to.

01:00:41:17 - 01:00:42:09
Speaker 2
Be like, Hey.

01:00:42:09 - 01:00:46:16
Speaker 4
Lindsay. Yeah. You know, like.

01:00:47:09 - 01:00:52:20
Speaker 3
Even like I will probably be like, I have to do planks real quick.

01:00:52:20 - 01:00:54:23
Speaker 4
I do that.

01:00:55:20 - 01:00:56:15
Speaker 2
Too. Funny. Oh.

01:00:57:22 - 01:00:59:06
Speaker 4
That's, that's, that's awesome.

01:00:59:21 - 01:01:28:03
Speaker 3
I think it's been like, that's my favorite year though. I'm 35. So like, this has been my favorite climbing year like so far. I don't know what clicked me back into being psyched and happy but like there was a little bit there that I was excited and happy, so I was like, this year is just like my season's been great, my climbing seasons and great my guide seasons great and my and poor is how sort of any sugar daddies when they come out.

01:01:28:21 - 01:01:30:20
Speaker 4
You know, flying with me.

01:01:31:14 - 01:01:34:04
Speaker 3
Down this thing right now.

01:01:35:20 - 01:01:36:09
Speaker 4
Yeah, I.

01:01:36:17 - 01:01:58:06
Speaker 3
I would say, like, this has been such a great season of just keeping it together with the athleticism and or being an athlete and being a guide. And it's, it's a challenge and it's sad, you know, like, I do have to, like, sacrifice, like going out with friends. I don't drink right now. So for me, it's like I don't I want to go to bed.

01:01:58:06 - 01:02:21:01
Speaker 3
I want to get up early, I want to do my my thing. And I don't know if it's being around so many people or different people on a daily basis. That keeps me a little bit loose. Like I'm very outgoing, obviously. Like I just have a bubbly personality and I know that, but I'm very loose person. It takes like a lot for me to like get out, to go somewhere.

01:02:21:01 - 01:02:37:01
Speaker 3
Like, so I mean, as in I'll get wild and stuff and Hammond will come out and it's really fun. But like, I just like there's also times where I'm like, I don't want to see anybody. I won't talk to anybody. The only reason I'll talk to you is my mom.

01:02:37:04 - 01:02:38:21
Speaker 4
You know? So I yeah.

01:02:39:17 - 01:02:48:13
Speaker 3
Start all my friends and just, you know, the people that you want to date. I'm sorry.

01:02:48:13 - 01:03:10:18
Speaker 1
I guess just kind of rolling in into this topic, you know, from from my research, you know, I think there's a bit of a stereotype when it comes to saying climbing in a male dominated sport, because I did some research and it doesn't really seem like it's that male dominated anymore. I the statistic came across was 6040. Is that is that kind of accurate?

01:03:10:18 - 01:03:13:22
Speaker 1
Would you would you say that that's kind of a representation of how it is now?

01:03:14:19 - 01:03:23:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think you're starting to see 5050, to be very honest. Recreational guides right now I've seen in Washington more so than anywhere else.

01:03:23:13 - 01:03:24:21
Speaker 1
So that's super cool.

01:03:25:06 - 01:03:25:16
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:03:25:17 - 01:03:28:19
Speaker 1
Were you climbing when it was mostly a male dominated sport?

01:03:29:17 - 01:03:59:03
Speaker 3
In my little tiny bubble of life at the time, yes, there was way more than women. There are women out there for sure. But I think that once they started, Texas was like there was like triples of women and there was tons of men, right? MM. Even when I got into the guiding world, I was like one of those, you in the guide track that was going for.

01:03:59:03 - 01:04:10:07
Speaker 3
I figure that I was like the only girl and some of my horses. Yeah, I think it it was like much more male dominated for sure.

01:04:10:17 - 01:04:27:11
Speaker 1
Well, what do you think has facilitated the transformation to have a more inclusive sport? Was it like media awareness? Was it gyms? You know, was it a change in society? What are your thoughts on kind of the the change that's happened now?

01:04:27:22 - 01:05:00:07
Speaker 3
I think it's like kind of like a couple of a lot of the all of those things. One, I think it's these all female organizations. You know, we we've found representation and those girls that are have been decided to like have put their foot in the door for us or females to like be leaders and like established groups for ourselves, established space for ourselves.

01:05:00:20 - 01:05:04:20
Speaker 3
There's a number of groups and festivals that have facilitated that.

01:05:05:08 - 01:05:10:14
Speaker 1
Do you know some of those organizations and and festivals off the top of your head that we can include in the links for this podcast?

01:05:11:08 - 01:05:17:15
Speaker 3
Yeah. The first company I worked for was an all female group and they were chicks climbing and skiing, but now they're called Iris.

01:05:19:00 - 01:05:19:17
Speaker 1
Iris.

01:05:20:21 - 01:05:49:13
Speaker 3
And then you've got She moves mountains, you got Hazel Ash, Foxy, you got she jumps for skiing and mountain biking and some other spaces. I think that like I work for Steph Davis group too, like, you know, and she had an all women's clinics when I first started guiding. So yeah, there's tons of amazing organizations out there that.

01:05:49:16 - 01:05:51:05
Speaker 4
Have hit the.

01:05:53:01 - 01:06:25:04
Speaker 3
Have helped women get in the leadership role or just get out of their comfort zone. And I think that marketing is help that with with that as well because now we're seeing women be out climbing some of the hardest grades and leading guys some of the hardest stuff to do and the the cover of magazines. Yeah. And like novice climbers circulating their like first time in the gym on Tik Tok and stuff.

01:06:25:04 - 01:06:40:13
Speaker 3
And that's just that's just accumulating awesomeness and projecting and passion and and, you know, confidence to go and try something new, you know, and.

01:06:40:14 - 01:06:43:05
Speaker 1
To take it upon themselves to make those first moves.

01:06:43:13 - 01:07:15:08
Speaker 3
For sure. And sometimes you get to see somebody else do it. Yeah. To know them or not to like inspire you to like just get off the couch is just like smoking. It's like that. Like I used to smoke cigarets and I was like. I started running so I'd stop smoking. Cigarets and it helped. I don't like smoke, so it's like, I think that you've got a lot of women out there that are representing the V really well in this sense of like getting other people to come out climbing.

01:07:15:10 - 01:07:40:21
Speaker 3
And I think I'm one of them. Of course, I think that like there's a lot of other groups I've been I've guided for a lot of those festivals, so I've seen how they run. So yeah, you've got tons of, you know, you've got a rock climbing. Like that's another great organization, that's an all female gosh, there's so many types.

01:07:41:03 - 01:07:56:21
Speaker 3
Oh, Texas Lady Crushers, amazing women. Emily Hernandez, you're about as on so I think that yeah you've got a plethora of women out there that are in all all different types of women humans.

01:07:57:02 - 01:07:57:10
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:07:57:20 - 01:07:58:12
Speaker 3
Trying you.

01:07:58:12 - 01:08:02:09
Speaker 1
It's almost said you almost said that there was pros and cons what.

01:08:02:11 - 01:08:30:16
Speaker 3
There are using cons like I think that like you know I don't I see the benefit and some people might get mad at me for saying this and I'm not talking for anybody but myself. So whoever gets a judgment about my opinion, that's totally fine because it's how I feel. I think that like, it's not always great to always do female courses.

01:08:31:10 - 01:09:02:02
Speaker 3
Because here's the thing I died in time with men who have helped me so much in this organization and throughout my life, within this career and outside of my career, just being a good human to me. And I've learned so much about mountain dating climbing through men because they have different senses than us and they learn from the emails as well because we have a different alarm system.

01:09:02:20 - 01:09:19:19
Speaker 3
And I see the that the beauty of coexisting and learning how to like respect each other and have that level of like I'm just me here to regardless of my gender without check off the box every day. Lindsey is a female today in the male.

01:09:20:04 - 01:09:20:16
Speaker 4
Dominated.

01:09:20:19 - 01:09:25:04
Speaker 3
Industry. She's going out there to like, you know.

01:09:25:14 - 01:09:26:19
Speaker 4
Pile prove something.

01:09:27:00 - 01:09:54:23
Speaker 3
Yeah, I don't need to put anything because guess what? My skill level, my confidence, my expertize, my resumé, the things I've worked very, very hard to be at the level that I am. I'm not better than anybody. I just know that I am exactly where I need to be. And I can only go up from here because I'm not gonna let myself go down unless I need to go take a couple steps back to get better.

01:09:54:23 - 01:10:15:06
Speaker 3
And that's always something that I need to do, but I don't see. Like I have a lot of friends that are females that are doing the IMG program, the American Mountain Guide Association, to get their certifications in guiding. Now, like, how do you feel about I mean, how did you feel about doing only female courses? I'm like, well, they weren't available to me and I don't think I would have taken them because guess what?

01:10:15:06 - 01:10:51:02
Speaker 3
I don't get to choose sometimes if I get all female or all men, I don't want to also be categories. Just that is who I am. No, Lindsay's a freakin school rock climber and guide, and I should be put on that specific track because of my qualifications, not because it's a gender based. And unless I do it, I do understand when some men, because of wives and relationships, they don't they don't want to be with a female and that's and I know that vise versa do you know like women sometimes just feel more comfortable with women.

01:10:51:02 - 01:11:10:15
Speaker 3
I know plenty of women clients who actually feel more client more comfortable with male guides. I think it's also not just about that. I think it's about like being established, like a friendship, a relationship with an that too. And they or they've done their due diligence like I have friends that like clients don't look you up like, oh, they look you up.

01:11:11:00 - 01:11:27:13
Speaker 3
Most of my friends like, yeah, I looked you up and I'm like, cool. So they got comfortable like, dude, you've done this, this and this. So their site and a lot of times like it, like even if it's a male, they don't get like uncomfortable because I'm a females like putting the rope up. They want to see expertize.

01:11:27:20 - 01:11:56:23
Speaker 3
They want to see like a little bit of a resume. And my big thing is that like, I know that I have to coexist with different humans, so why not learn from different humans and not just put myself in one category? Because I'm big on like diversity. That means like diversity with communication, diversity with the LGBT community, diversity with bipoc, diversity with men, diversity with women.

01:11:57:00 - 01:12:21:01
Speaker 3
Like I want to be able to chat with everybody and get to know different humans for who they are. So I can either work with you really well or guide you really well, like I'm in it to win it with everybody. So for it's like I want people to have the available space for them to start learning and then that exude their amazingness to everybody else.

01:12:21:01 - 01:12:29:03
Speaker 3
Because I can learn so much from so many different people that I had no idea. So if I keep myself in one category and kind of like losing that, right? Like.

01:12:29:10 - 01:12:30:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, I'm just.

01:12:30:05 - 01:12:55:20
Speaker 1
I think it's a, it's a you're you're talking it seems like you're talking about like an inclusivity, like a, you know, we're all better together. You know, this whole I definitely want to empower, you know, females or anybody that might seem like they're underrepresented to to be included, but separating the different groups and like putting all the women and maybe all the men here, like like you're saying it's that's an exclusive process.

01:12:55:20 - 01:13:02:21
Speaker 1
We're kind of like separating instead of trying to include us all together. And like you said, we we can learn when we're all meshed together a lot better.

01:13:03:16 - 01:13:32:10
Speaker 3
I think. But here's the thing. I'm going to double advocate that because I also think that some people need be in the same environment as who they want to be like, I'm a woman and I do like being with all women too, when I learn. And I think it's all depending on like, look, if your space that you want to be learning, learn and oh, please take that opportunity to like go in the group that makes you feel comfortable.

01:13:32:10 - 01:14:12:11
Speaker 3
And also it gives you the space to learn where it doesn't bring trauma into your life because there's women who have had really bad trauma with their boyfriends or male friends that are very toxic. So for them to just like jump back into that, to learn it doesn't go well. So that's why I'm so happy that there she moves mountains and hey slash foxy and all these as rock climbing and Texas lady pressures to give the opportunity for these women specifically we're talking about women here to go and have an opportunity to learn in a free and in an environment that's comfortable hopefully.

01:14:12:11 - 01:14:12:18
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01:14:12:19 - 01:14:13:22
Speaker 3
That makes you know, hopefully.

01:14:13:22 - 01:14:14:10
Speaker 1
Absolutely.

01:14:14:20 - 01:14:31:01
Speaker 3
I'm not I'm not dismissing like I don't I think that it's so great to have groups of people learning in a comfortable space. I just know that at some point I like to break that out of that mold too, so I can learn from everybody.

01:14:31:20 - 01:14:32:13
Speaker 4
Because it's the.

01:14:32:13 - 01:14:53:13
Speaker 2
Point is that like if someone's not comfortable or there is like bad representation or yeah. Like the barrier to entry is there, right? It's like, hey, like I don't feel like going to the pool or gym because there's like a whole bunch of like jacked dudes who are super intimidating, like fighting for positions on the wall. So you get kind of that, that course so that all women's group and maybe that gets you into it and gives you the confidence to be empowered.

01:14:53:13 - 01:15:02:21
Speaker 2
Yeah. You know, I'd actually like I'm. I'm fucking awesome and I can do this. Yeah. Kind of move on to your stepping stone. Move. I'm like a more process for you. Yeah.

01:15:03:04 - 01:15:25:20
Speaker 3
Exactly, exactly. That's what I mean. Like, I kind of had to branch from. I like kind of men, and I was like, I'm not playing with women. Like, I'm not playing with them, and I don't need do that. And then I branched out of that because it was bullshit, because I had been like, you know, I've been kind of like the thought process was like I kind of had this guy that was making me competitive to other women.

01:15:25:20 - 01:15:41:12
Speaker 3
And then I realized that I wasn't in the competition with that other woman. It's not about that. And when I found the camaraderie I found with other females that I playing with now, I was like, I get it. Like, this is these are the people I want to hang out with and I choose my partner about like threesome Rodrigues dealing.

01:15:41:19 - 01:16:06:10
Speaker 3
And I think that those groups also have the opportunity for you to meet your next relationship as well. Yeah. So for me it's like there's pros and cons to all those things. And because you can't say there's always it's everything is good about just a full steam of shit that goes on. All female things, you know, too. So it's not, we're not human and we're not bitchy to each other.

01:16:06:10 - 01:16:20:04
Speaker 3
And like that all happens as well. It just I want people just I'm glad that there's all different types of groups out there that everybody can go to find the next step, to continue to be a leader out there.

01:16:20:04 - 01:16:21:05
Speaker 4
So well-said. Yeah.

01:16:21:16 - 01:16:38:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. No, totally makes perfect sense for sure. I'm wondering, like, what do you what do you think of like vulgar root names? Know, like, there's a lot of names that obviously deal with like a lot of sexism and are pretty vulgar and stuff from like, people put them up. I'm wondering, like, what your opinion is on those guys.

01:16:38:18 - 01:16:45:09
Speaker 3
Okay So I'm I think I'm the worst person to ask this question too. I love a good like our sex.

01:16:45:20 - 01:16:46:11
Speaker 4
Life but.

01:16:47:04 - 01:17:03:23
Speaker 3
I think I play like this is probably bad to admit but like I'm probably like I think a good like like I think a lot of inappropriate things are funny and that's just how I am. And I think that like, I wear shirts that say I love balls on there. Just.

01:17:05:13 - 01:17:07:04
Speaker 4
Hey, we like you.

01:17:07:11 - 01:17:27:06
Speaker 3
You're okay. It's like I do it right back, you know? And I have like, yeah, like I have a new rule at bottom and people might think this is sexist, but they don't know the story behind it. And I think that sometimes these root names come along because there's something that happens, you know, and you're like, and maybe there's not a back story to it.

01:17:27:06 - 01:17:31:17
Speaker 3
Like, I was drilling the holes in the rock and it was me, my friend Britt.

01:17:32:13 - 01:17:33:21
Speaker 4
And I'm like, The.

01:17:34:10 - 01:17:46:11
Speaker 3
Greek is going on like the drill is not going in. And I had it on reverse. So I ended up so many holes in there like anchor and I was like, we should call it two women mini holes.

01:17:46:18 - 01:17:50:17
Speaker 4
Like, so I could probably.

01:17:50:17 - 01:17:54:20
Speaker 3
Take that so funny, but like it was legit because I like.

01:17:56:06 - 01:17:56:16
Speaker 4
To have.

01:17:57:01 - 01:18:01:06
Speaker 3
The women do have mini holes on our bodies and.

01:18:02:03 - 01:18:02:07
Speaker 4
It.

01:18:02:07 - 01:18:37:14
Speaker 3
Was three. So I was like kind of playing the joke. It's like I think of like some of these things, but like I think it's all about intent. And like, I'm sure some of those like routines that are sexist were super malice and are not okay. And I think it also depends on the person who at the time, you know, like there's like intensely like there's a wall called slavery wall and like they get and it still makes me uncomfortable going there just because of the history and like choose to go to another, you know, like mine or like I just I'm like, oh, I just, like, tainted with, like.

01:18:38:02 - 01:18:40:11
Speaker 4
Shitty fucking ideology.

01:18:40:20 - 01:18:44:07
Speaker 3
And I'm like, I'm not good with that.

01:18:44:08 - 01:18:44:12
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:18:44:14 - 01:18:54:05
Speaker 3
And I think that there's like some things I just, like, laugh about and like, that's like, anything that has, like, something about, like, slender bitches and like, am a slut.

01:18:54:10 - 01:18:57:14
Speaker 4
And I say, Yeah.

01:18:58:02 - 01:19:19:07
Speaker 3
If you're going to try to make fun of me with that or like put me down like this, you're like the wrong person to get offended by those words. It's not me. But yeah, people do get offended. So like, I'm going to take an account of like, that's not great for other people who don't have who are not me and I'm not sensitive but to insensitive to other people and how they feel.

01:19:19:14 - 01:19:25:03
Speaker 3
And I think that it's like redacted like are truly like.

01:19:25:12 - 01:19:26:21
Speaker 1
Just built, built from hate.

01:19:27:04 - 01:19:50:01
Speaker 3
Built from hate and you can steal it. I'm sorry, but you can tell when people build that shit from hate and that's not okay. But I do feel like humor be in our world. So like I'm not going to like discredit my or like put down like my humor. That's really probably inappropriate because someone is a little bit more conservative.

01:19:50:01 - 01:19:57:05
Speaker 3
Like, that's fine with you, but I'll just make sure I don't do that around you. Like, I'll be like, super aware of, like who my audience is.

01:19:57:20 - 01:19:57:23
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:19:58:01 - 01:20:15:21
Speaker 3
So with, like, with the names that are out there on the roots, like, yeah, like I'm totally down to redact and rename things that are, you know, that that person fucking put to hurt other people. They're an asshole. Yeah. They should be taken down for sure. 100%.

01:20:15:21 - 01:20:20:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well I think, I think personally slavery wall really that that's like.

01:20:20:17 - 01:20:22:12
Speaker 4
Oh cut there.

01:20:22:12 - 01:20:36:22
Speaker 2
That was like what but that I've never heard of that, you know, I'm like vaguely like slightly like sexist root names or something and like, yeah, I'm not really a fan of like censorship or redacting history in a lot of times, but like that slavery Wall seems like a pretty fair line.

01:20:37:13 - 01:20:37:21
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:20:38:18 - 01:20:59:11
Speaker 3
And I think that, like, if I was to put up a wall and I wanted to take back certain things like the slut word or those things, I was like naming routes that way because I'm, I'm owning that, that I'm like, I love Cardi B that. And she takes back to everything and she, you know, she's just who she is.

01:20:59:18 - 01:21:29:07
Speaker 3
And I think if you're if you're putting up roots and you're a female and you want to take back those, those words go for it. Like that point. Yeah, yeah. And then, but I also feel like we need to be good about like calling each other certain things, you know, and like, um, I think that the sexism is there in some of those roots and sometimes are just like, well, this is a fight, and I don't really care about it because I really want to clean this around.

01:21:29:08 - 01:21:30:18
Speaker 4
So, yeah, I.

01:21:30:18 - 01:21:31:14
Speaker 3
Really miss her.

01:21:31:14 - 01:21:33:04
Speaker 4
How so? Yeah.

01:21:33:04 - 01:21:55:06
Speaker 3
Silence is the name right now. Specifically talk about sexism like I have no idea. Like, that's how like what we're talking about. Like, it's like really sexist. Remember, like, what? I'm going to find this. It's not gonna be right now. Like this. And that's I pick and choose what I identify energy into.

01:21:55:12 - 01:21:56:16
Speaker 4
So. Exactly.

01:21:56:23 - 01:22:14:00
Speaker 2
Yeah. I really like the point you brought up where it's like context matters. And I think obviously this is a bit of a touchy subject, but, but like I do think that, you know, of like some guy like, you know, 30, 40 years ago, like, okay, it's, it's not modern day. I'm not excusing his behavior and it's really easy for me as a guy in the modern age to be like, Oh, who cares?

01:22:14:00 - 01:22:35:15
Speaker 2
So like, and I understand my ignorance on that subject, but at the same time it's like context does matter. Like you know, it's a little vulgar. Fuck that guy, you know, like, yeah, yeah, the name is sexist. But at the same time, like, you know, like you're saying like, hey, the time's great, you know, maybe we can maybe we can move passes and acknowledge, like, this was really bad, but like in the past was like, you know, like, whatever.

01:22:36:12 - 01:22:46:22
Speaker 3
I mean, if it's really bad, so I don't want it, why don't we just redact the name and so. Klein They're out like there are ways around that like, cause I'm not promoting sexism here. Like.

01:22:47:12 - 01:22:49:00
Speaker 4
I know for sure I.

01:22:49:00 - 01:22:55:08
Speaker 3
Don't want the generation to generation to male to get even worse. We're actually kind.

01:22:56:06 - 01:22:56:15
Speaker 4
Up.

01:22:57:00 - 01:23:30:10
Speaker 3
Uphill of you guys and I don't know what you guys like, but like, you know, specifically in the guides and I've seen and the climbers that I've seen are going up in the fact that like we're on the same playing field and like we're getting there and there's so much work to do. So I don't, I'm not, I don't want it to continue down the road whether it being like, okay, but you know, like there are certain titles where I'm like, that's not that bad versus maybe this other name is really fucked up and I'm going to say something.

01:23:30:17 - 01:23:32:09
Speaker 3
So I think, Yeah, yeah, it depends.

01:23:32:21 - 01:23:33:08
Speaker 4
Yeah, sure.

01:23:33:09 - 01:23:34:10
Speaker 2
Context matters. Yeah.

01:23:34:19 - 01:23:35:23
Speaker 3
Context matters. Yeah.

01:23:36:10 - 01:23:36:21
Speaker 2
Yeah, I know.

01:23:37:01 - 01:23:44:05
Speaker 1
Have you noticed any areas other than route names where sexism is kind of like plague the sport?

01:23:44:05 - 01:23:44:15
Speaker 4
Uh.

01:23:45:01 - 01:23:46:08
Speaker 3
Other than. Oh, yeah. I mean.

01:23:46:08 - 01:23:49:11
Speaker 4
Like, I think I didn't.

01:23:49:20 - 01:23:53:20
Speaker 1
Please. Yeah, I mean, just give me a couple, couple hot topics.

01:23:53:20 - 01:24:19:06
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that, like, I've got to be able to guide a certain route, but I felt like it wasn't allowed. I was allowed to guide it even though I had a rock guide certification and my alpine course done with an ice course and pro one and some other things that would keep me in the scope of practice.

01:24:19:15 - 01:24:56:09
Speaker 3
But I felt like the owner, the guide was definitely keeping me at a certain level because he did not want to see me guiding the whole I have. I think that Phil let somebody else do it, but not me. And I think that's the power of misogyny. Is there 100 and guiding? And I think that like it's not every company, but women should be very thoughtful about what company they're going to going to be sexism there guys like it is misogyny.

01:24:57:11 - 01:25:22:21
Speaker 3
I also think that like if you really put your foot down, come in with confidence, come in with the resumé, come in. Like any like anybody else would make a good. I mean, it sucks that you have to make an argument that's freaking if that gets me to get to the next step. So the next person behind me, it's easier for them all.

01:25:22:21 - 01:25:38:06
Speaker 3
Make it hard for me so the next lady can get it easier. You know, I'm fine with paving that way. And I think that like there's some of us that are doing that and like I'll feel like we're it was easy. They let me do it. Like, you're welcome.

01:25:38:06 - 01:25:38:20
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

01:25:38:22 - 01:26:04:00
Speaker 3
You know, you're welcome. Because that was maybe some of us other, you know, a little bit older generation who paved that way for you to climb it because we we want more women out there guiding and climbing things because we're competent to be able to do that. And I think that like, it just I see that sometimes within the guiding community.

01:26:04:00 - 01:26:10:10
Speaker 3
I also see it from clientele like with I'm with eight dudes.

01:26:10:18 - 01:26:10:22
Speaker 4
That.

01:26:10:22 - 01:26:50:10
Speaker 3
Are all corporate dudes and then it just me and another female, regardless of if I'm professional or not, I feel like sometimes I'm a piece of meat to look at and it's like it does not matter. And it's like that evolution of a man is not like that. So average that that type of man is never going to evolve past that for and that's that sucks and I can easily be like, you know, I don't want that trip because I know that that's going to happen and I can say no to it real fast or I have to like pretty much have big presence within that kind of group and look them straight.

01:26:50:10 - 01:27:01:23
Speaker 3
And I'm like, You're not going to mess with, you know? Yeah, but I still feel under the microscope as like, this is a mountain chicken to look at.

01:27:02:19 - 01:27:03:20
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah.

01:27:04:18 - 01:27:31:20
Speaker 3
And that's like, it's not just with other mountain guides, it's also with clientele. It's hard, you know, and like it. It's one of those things of, like how do I be very professional and also stand my ground and not like I don't want to be in an argument. I'm not trying to be get in a fight with anybody.

01:27:31:20 - 01:27:49:18
Speaker 3
I don't need to get in a fight with you because I'm an adult and I can talk to you about this and I can like, look, this is what's going to happen today. If I see any more chatting about females in that way, like we're done. Do you understand me? Yeah. You know, and like, I even do that with other guides to my take.

01:27:49:18 - 01:28:10:18
Speaker 3
You seen that? What you just said? Now people say what you just said in front of clients is now going to give them the green light to talk to me in this non respectful way. You better switch your tone, switch your attitude towards me. We're going to have a problem because you're not going to like what I do next to you.

01:28:11:02 - 01:28:46:22
Speaker 3
And most of the time, men and I and I think a lot of women when they go into these, like very male dominated situations because there is and you're the only female and being taken seriously is like hard. And I think you just I, I just for me, I just walk in like like a little powerhouse exuding the most confidence because I do know that I can do and I just switch non with professionalism and you know, like I make sure that the other guides like treat me respectfully and then they have my back if anything is being said inappropriately, right.

01:28:46:22 - 01:29:24:07
Speaker 3
Like every me, my guides are on the same page. I think that what I see from females that aren't there yet. Like maybe they will never have the presence that I have, but I nip it in the real fast, you know, I don't when every time there's going to be sexist chats towards me and remarks and stuff and I'm not going to get a lot of the clients and times that I want to guide because I do think it's depending on the guide or the owner, they might just always want a male on it because that's the norm.

01:29:25:12 - 01:29:37:16
Speaker 3
Now I want to break that for sure. And I'm trying and I think that like, like this past season when I was ice climbing, I always wanted to lead or guide Bridal Veil Falls. It's like five, five plus.

01:29:38:02 - 01:29:38:10
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:29:38:15 - 01:30:02:14
Speaker 3
And Vince and Vince Anderson, who was like my hero, like my idol did love Vince. He watched me climb this thing on the camper road, which is like a five plus icon that I saw so beautifully that day. I ended up falling on ice like this guy was an elf. And I was like, so good that he saw me.

01:30:02:14 - 01:30:10:18
Speaker 3
Kind of like, I find that thing so beautifully and then hired me to guide two of his clients to male clients and right away my first time ever it.

01:30:11:07 - 01:30:12:04
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:30:12:04 - 01:30:23:11
Speaker 3
That's pretty rad, right? Like he saw me and he was like, that girl. Oh, here, that's a girl. Like, that person up there just is going to, is going to guide my two people.

01:30:24:07 - 01:30:25:14
Speaker 4
Yeah. And I think that like.

01:30:26:06 - 01:30:26:19
Speaker 3
Sorry. Go ahead.

01:30:27:00 - 01:30:45:07
Speaker 1
Bridget. Just professionalism and excellence speaks for itself. And that seems to be a theme with you in this whole podcast that you exude that with everybody that you meet. And I think that's so important. You definitely are in control of the image that you you present to other people. And it's awesome that you've been living your life like that.

01:30:45:16 - 01:30:48:13
Speaker 1
It's, it's, it's inspiring base.

01:30:48:13 - 01:31:09:14
Speaker 3
I just want, like, I just know that, like, it's not going to go away. But what not, what I can control is myself and how I deliver everything every day. Did I go through my checklist as a guide today and say, Did you prep the client? Are you packed? You know, the the climate. So have you done your research?

01:31:09:14 - 01:31:31:04
Speaker 3
Have you looked at the weather? Have you done all these things? All of that is going to show a lot of freakin professionalism and expertize right there to where that client or that guide is going to be like hell, yes. That's why we have this person on the team and that's going to pay. And the fact that it's going to keep other women to be able to do bigger things.

01:31:32:03 - 01:31:44:06
Speaker 3
And that's why I think that's where I where I play in this whole thing. I think it's really hard for me a lot of times and I'm like site to like bulldozer down for other women too.

01:31:44:17 - 01:31:45:11
Speaker 4
So yeah.

01:31:45:22 - 01:31:47:08
Speaker 1
Definitely seems like you're doing a great job.

01:31:47:17 - 01:31:51:23
Speaker 4
I hope so. Was I fall asleep.

01:31:51:23 - 01:31:59:03
Speaker 3
All the time. Don't think this is perfect. It is a shit shows them diagnosing so don't worry.

01:31:59:03 - 01:32:15:11
Speaker 2
I think that's a pretty common thread. People, they do that right. Like everybody has their horror stories and kind of their their state of organized chaos where they're just they're just making it work. And it happens, right? As long as you're working hard, you're being consistent in your, you know, owning the space you're in, like you'll get there.

01:32:16:06 - 01:32:23:08
Speaker 1
It's hard to argue with with that or too hard to talk down and hard to argue with someone who's owning themselves like that. Yeah.

01:32:23:08 - 01:32:49:02
Speaker 3
Yeah. I think that that's the big thing. It's like standing the ground, putting a boundary. Like sometimes I do social contracts with people before we even, like, leave the area, like with men and women. Or if it's just men versus women, a mixed bag. I'm like, Hey, before we leave this conversation or this group circle to go to our time, we're going to have a social contract.

01:32:49:02 - 01:33:06:22
Speaker 3
You're not going to talk to me, my co guy, or rather combined in any inappropriate way. If anybody does, you get to go down back to the car. I will not put up with that. Now everyone's going to look at each other. No, they're all going to have the same respect for each other. And if there's any issues, please come to me.

01:33:07:00 - 01:33:29:07
Speaker 3
I'll help you with it. But no one's going to talk down. No one's going to do sexist chats or misogyny. I'm not going to deal with any of that. So everybody needs to say I agree to the social contract because it might not just be one person going down in your group, especially if this is like everybody knows each other, one person can ruin the entire trip for you.

01:33:29:07 - 01:33:34:18
Speaker 3
So take what you want right now and then. That's how I like and the I bitches. Let's go off on.

01:33:39:06 - 01:33:39:19
Speaker 4
Side.

01:33:41:23 - 01:33:42:23
Speaker 3
Like I just kind of like.

01:33:43:15 - 01:33:44:17
Speaker 4
I let it out.

01:33:45:02 - 01:33:49:00
Speaker 3
Laid out and it works like almost every time.

01:33:49:18 - 01:33:52:00
Speaker 1
Yeah so smart and powerful.

01:33:52:15 - 01:34:10:11
Speaker 2
No, totally rad. Lindsay, I got to say, you are just a rad person. You get me really climbing and stuff. I'm having a blast with this conversation. So it's a lot of fun. Yeah, it's enough to hear that. Yeah. Kyle, you get to move on to the next topic. Feel like that was pretty.

01:34:10:13 - 01:34:16:13
Speaker 1
I'm I was a great, great, better than I could have imagined for that topic. Yeah, I'm very happy with it.

01:34:16:18 - 01:34:31:16
Speaker 2
Absolutely. Yeah. So I guess the, the next thing we're talking about is a little bit like kind of into your, your guiding journey, right? Like, you know, like when, like when did you know you wanted to become a guide and what has that kind of process been like for you?

01:34:32:22 - 01:35:10:23
Speaker 3
So when I met my ex-boyfriend, I was kind of in the transition phase to like I feel like I was like 25 or 26 and I'm still kind of like a 23 year old, you know, it didn't really know what I wanted, but I knew that I'm a I am a leader and being like positive organization. I built a company within the organization to be able to pay for funds for like, you know, advertising, like little competitions that you go on or something or like funds for, for an organization.

01:35:11:23 - 01:35:29:13
Speaker 3
So I had this like go getter. I really like teaching, I really like climbing and I love being outside I cannot, I remember, I, I, I interviewed with Osprey backpacks and they're like, we're just worried that you're going to just jump ship and go fly out flights.

01:35:29:13 - 01:35:29:22
Speaker 4
Right?

01:35:32:10 - 01:35:33:04
Speaker 4
And then I.

01:35:33:04 - 01:35:53:23
Speaker 3
Just and then I just became one of their like, you know, I do a bunch of photoshoots with them. So, yeah, so perfect for that and they were great. Like, I need to be outside. Like, I'm like a border collie who needs to be ran like every moment of the day so like I just have so much energy and I do really like people.

01:35:54:08 - 01:36:31:19
Speaker 3
I have clients that I like and best friends with and like that I would go to their weddings or like their homes and hang out with them like they're friends of mine. So for me it's like I have the guiding role just called to me and that maybe because I have a communications background, I have this like networking background and I think that it helped with knowing that all these things that I had wanted to do within my life and with athletics, to be in one, one pod going for it.

01:36:32:06 - 01:36:53:11
Speaker 3
When I started out with my instructor like certification and my spy, and that's where I started, and then I, I started getting like single page stuff a lot just to kind of see I liked it because I think it's such a great spot or great like investment because it's not like the rock guide course, you know, it's less expensive.

01:36:53:12 - 01:36:57:09
Speaker 3
I can see if I like it before I invest fully. I was like, I think good.

01:36:57:09 - 01:36:58:14
Speaker 4
Advice.

01:36:58:14 - 01:37:24:01
Speaker 3
You know? And I was like, Cool. This can kind of be the sector of things. I can do a whole lot with it. And I actually think that you make more money, you single pitch writing than you do the outline guiding. So and so you can do a lot with that and then, you know, and then once you go into that, you can do your like spy provider and start doing like putting on assessments.

01:37:24:01 - 01:37:50:23
Speaker 3
And after you, I think you have to get your rock guides stuff but like, you know, like there's so much opportunity with missing cultural. So I went into that and then I started doing the Rock Guide course, went through the rock I process, got my certification. I'm about to take my whole plan exam. So in my second one, once I'm done with my Alpine, got literally I go to Pakistan I psycho I am okay I'm a psych I plan on the third.

01:37:51:08 - 01:37:55:22
Speaker 3
I get home on the fourth or fifth and then my exam starts on the sixth. So I'm.

01:37:56:07 - 01:37:58:14
Speaker 4
In.

01:37:58:14 - 01:38:36:02
Speaker 3
So this is going to be really fun for me. I basically did this whole two months of like back to back guiding just so I can see if I can put up. I deal with it, I'm good. So, but like and then also during this program I have my pro one and pro to athletes training for done and so that was already done my exam that's how I tested the the C program as long as I pass my exam and if I don't, okay, I'll try again because I'm, I'm in it to win it and getting my SGA, you know, you fail sometimes and that's totally great and you learn a lot from it.

01:38:36:04 - 01:39:01:22
Speaker 3
I'm not opposed, I, I feel my sky and my rock because the first time I know I was yellow. It happens maybe like. Like you will think I'm like I passed everything and like, nowadays, like, I failed. I'm the best failure ever. Like, I might. I'm like, the best one hey you will ever see. Because, like, I always one hang everything and then I'll send a text time.

01:39:02:00 - 01:39:02:23
Speaker 4
So you go.

01:39:04:06 - 01:39:26:07
Speaker 3
By like, yeah. So then I'm, I've been seeing since I was three, I used to work at Telluride Ski Resort. I have a pretty good skiing background as well. I just need a bunch. I'm going to work on that this winter more and live in Durango, Colorado again and just work on my program. And I think I make think about it.

01:39:26:07 - 01:39:51:05
Speaker 3
It's like I love meetings for I love guiding people love education and I love like being the person that, like, like people get so, like, I'm stoked and I'm like a pretty good, you know, like I'm like hype girl ham and I'm kind of a stickler dude. Like, I was just with my friend and I was in L.A. and I was pretty, like, intense with her, like, about, like, rope tension.

01:39:51:21 - 01:40:08:20
Speaker 3
And, like, I'm like, dude, you're walking in this. Like, if you break, can take a whipper on the top rope and a very low angle train you're going to and you have spikes like you've got like, what are you doing? And I was pretty rough on her and she was like, But I'm a novice more like, It's not about you being a novice.

01:40:08:21 - 01:40:36:07
Speaker 3
You can hear me. I've told you not once, not twice, not three times, not four times, five times like the sixth time reporter is like, okay, you're right. Like, right. Like, I might be intense with you, but there's a reason for it. I'm not gaslighting you. I need you to stop doing that. This is not like. Yeah, and, like, just because I'm teaching, like, hey, get that bad habit out now I'm, like, let's leave it here.

01:40:36:15 - 01:40:57:13
Speaker 3
So I just feel like with with fighting, like, I'm pretty like, like very blunt. And I'm not going to apologize for that because guess what? All of my people come back for a reason because of how much of a straight shooter I am with it. I don't sugarcoat you, but I will be there for you and empathetic and compassionate.

01:40:58:00 - 01:41:20:01
Speaker 3
But I am going to be like, stop, no, like put a boundary down on it when it's necessary. Yeah. So that's like kind of like my, my, my travels right now. Like, I'm within the reach of my day. As long as I pass this alpine exam, have to and one to go. And it's a long process. That's medicine.

01:41:20:22 - 01:41:46:15
Speaker 3
It's a lot of time. It's I mean, to have to stay connected with your clients, to stay connected on social media, to let people know what you're doing to be and like I'm Michael is to be able to climb the same like 511 wi5 and six and seven and still be able to see all at the same time is working hard work.

01:41:46:23 - 01:42:08:13
Speaker 3
And I think there's a very few people that actually that are guides that actually can do that. And I'm trying to be that to be honest. Like that's my own personal goal and I'm a climber, so I, I, yeah, I just think that the guiding world, like I, I'm excited to see where it takes me in the next couple of years.

01:42:08:13 - 01:42:40:09
Speaker 3
You know, with me going overseas and me having my own personal experiences, I need be great. And I think that I wouldn't be here without the MJ and those other humans that were in my life, even my ex-boyfriend, to be very honest, like I wouldn't be here without us growing together as guides and climbers, you know? So the process has been really difficult prerequisites and then post requisites after your courses and exams, it just doesn't stop, you know?

01:42:41:00 - 01:42:41:08
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:42:42:22 - 01:43:08:20
Speaker 3
It's a lot. It's a lot of time away from the family relationships. Like, I don't think I'll have a boyfriend for a little bit. I got, I, I gave myself a couple more years. I'll figure it out. Like just want to get through my goals and like, I don't think that I give that person me and that's me until I'm like, done with some of this stuff and yes, yes.

01:43:09:14 - 01:43:32:07
Speaker 3
You missed weddings. You missed birthdays. You miss Christmas, you miss Thanksgivings. And it's just a lot of sacrifice, you know, and you're giving it to other people. And I don't think that like some of these clients or people that are just doing maybe one day dayers understand what we go through as guides and we don't get paid as much as we should.

01:43:32:23 - 01:43:49:11
Speaker 3
You know? And I think that like the return on investment is not quite there all the way and it's starting to become there. And you have to hustle and actually find them all down and down to hustle. But it's it's expensive. You know, my exam is like 39 or 40 $100 like crazy.

01:43:50:00 - 01:43:51:10
Speaker 4
Yeah. But so.

01:43:52:03 - 01:44:05:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. So is there any, like, advice you would offer to, like any aspiring female guides out there or just guides in general? Like, like maybe just, you know, some some quick tips that, like you found before useful.

01:44:07:07 - 01:44:12:00
Speaker 3
Yeah. Get another job. There's like, have.

01:44:12:11 - 01:44:12:20
Speaker 4
I.

01:44:12:20 - 01:44:42:21
Speaker 3
Think that like I so I wait tables as well and I try to like I'm sure I could do marketing stuff, but again like waiting tables, I don't care. Like it's easy money and like I put that money aside to help me pay for my exams or my like or my personal trips and stuff. I think it's about like knowing that this is not a money, you know.

01:44:42:21 - 01:44:43:11
Speaker 4
Dinner. You got to.

01:44:43:11 - 01:44:45:09
Speaker 1
Go into it with the right expectations.

01:44:45:12 - 01:44:54:19
Speaker 3
Yeah, you got to know that like this is talk of this aren't six. Whoever you are I want to meet. Yeah. And I think that.

01:44:54:19 - 01:44:55:07
Speaker 4
Because.

01:44:56:11 - 01:45:18:12
Speaker 3
I think there are some really, really successful guides that actually make a lot of money. I think here's the thing. You need ten really good clients. So if you're starting to build your brand, I'm not talking about like, you know, being with you, right? Like Lindsey Hamza, right? Like people are hungry for this and then they go with me, go through the companies I need to go to, start writing down on an Excel sheet.

01:45:19:03 - 01:45:47:14
Speaker 3
All your clients. And then as you're moving through the process and as you're going to different locations to climb or guide email, these people just like a newsletter of some sort, like, Hey, I'm guiding here, here and here and start planting seeds and almost like a marketing strategy like, like companies will start doing their summer stuff like, you know, like in winter, like they start like advertising for all that talk.

01:45:48:20 - 01:46:08:07
Speaker 3
It's the same thing. So the big thing is like recording the clientele and also keeping up. And sometimes you just recently maybe put a little line through the ones that you're like, that was a one off, right? But then keeping the relationships up and then always keeping those people like wanting more and like that, that's what you need to do.

01:46:08:17 - 01:46:31:09
Speaker 3
And I have like a, I have a spreadsheet of like all my clients. I'm not always the best. Like sometimes because I get really busy in the summers and then I like kind of shut offs and I'm not doing funny, but I have like five really great clients. Hire me multiple times. That's awesome. And I would like five more that and then that would just keep me alive.

01:46:32:06 - 01:46:32:20
Speaker 4
The whole to.

01:46:33:04 - 01:46:34:14
Speaker 1
The end as a business.

01:46:34:14 - 01:46:35:23
Speaker 3
You're Elizabeth, you're.

01:46:36:07 - 01:47:02:02
Speaker 1
You're creating a business and you need to treat it that way. And I think that, you know, with any business, there are multiple facets other than just doing the job. And so like, just like you said, like coming up with a marketing plan, keep in contact with your customers. Like these are all things that are going to lead you to success in the future and to have a nice, easier process of, of having return customers, which is another huge part of business, too.

01:47:02:03 - 01:47:04:16
Speaker 1
You don't want to always be trying to find new customers all the time.

01:47:05:18 - 01:47:08:22
Speaker 3
No, because isn't that more money to hire more customers?

01:47:09:18 - 01:47:17:04
Speaker 1
It's more expensive to hire on a new customer. It's more expensive to to find a new customer usually than it is to get a repeat customer keeping.

01:47:17:04 - 01:47:17:18
Speaker 4
So yeah.

01:47:18:07 - 01:47:30:14
Speaker 3
So yeah. All right. So I'm going to keep my existing customers and build like, okay, if I need to go take a, like this summer, like I'm going to go to Washington because I want to see if I can get more customers.

01:47:30:21 - 01:47:31:09
Speaker 4
Well, I'll.

01:47:31:09 - 01:47:35:10
Speaker 3
Do that with myself. Sweet. Okay, so I have my five.

01:47:36:04 - 01:47:37:07
Speaker 4
Yeah you know.

01:47:37:14 - 01:47:54:11
Speaker 3
I just want a couple more. And so that's what I do. And, and another thing that I think that new guides should do is go and work at these festivals, like you're a licensed crane classics.

01:47:55:14 - 01:47:55:21
Speaker 4
And.

01:47:56:10 - 01:48:27:13
Speaker 3
Just get to know the brands, get to know the people, put yourself out there, you know, like, I think that's a huge thing because then it can get you rigging jobs too. Like, I'm doing a reading job for I can't talk about it on here, but like with, you know, some people and I got it through meeting all these humans through these festivals and then they helped me get this job, that high paying, and I'm like, Oh yeah, that's fun.

01:48:27:20 - 01:48:47:14
Speaker 3
And I get to network and I'm such a good networker that I'm I know that this is going to lead to something else in the future. So I think it's all about connecting and networking. And I think, you know, if you have that skill of a salesman, it should be easy for you. If not, I'm hanging out with me and I'll show you my little business skill.

01:48:48:01 - 01:48:48:08
Speaker 4
And.

01:48:50:05 - 01:48:54:09
Speaker 3
I it is five nine and on a subscription I'm just getting.

01:48:55:16 - 01:48:55:20
Speaker 4
You.

01:48:56:02 - 01:48:58:02
Speaker 1
Got to start like a sales course for.

01:48:58:02 - 01:48:59:17
Speaker 4
Guys. Yeah.

01:48:59:17 - 01:49:03:02
Speaker 2
Goes on guy becomes like a salesperson.

01:49:03:12 - 01:49:05:15
Speaker 4
Tony you're 80.

01:49:05:15 - 01:49:11:07
Speaker 3
So back is there. Do you like such a fucking infomercial because I love that commercial.

01:49:11:12 - 01:49:12:08
Speaker 4
And they're just like.

01:49:12:19 - 01:49:16:03
Speaker 3
Are you ready to learn how to sell yourself as a guy?

01:49:16:05 - 01:49:22:16
Speaker 4
This the hands now?

01:49:23:02 - 01:49:51:04
Speaker 3
No. I think that like it's all about getting putting yourself out there and some guides don't want to do that and that's totally fine. And you can be the silent crusher as well. And I know tons of dads that are not super outgoing is me and they're crushing it as well. I think you just need to find your like your your business niche and like go with it and finesse it however you want to, but just make sure you're dialed in.

01:49:51:04 - 01:49:54:07
Speaker 3
Good people just want to have a dial guide, you know.

01:49:54:15 - 01:49:56:00
Speaker 4
So yeah, yeah.

01:49:56:16 - 01:50:09:17
Speaker 1
You do. You use social media to promote your business or like because I see a lot of guides like Cody Bradford and Max Larry, they're big on social media to attract attention to their brand. Do you have any sort of tactics like that you do for yourself?

01:50:09:17 - 01:50:23:11
Speaker 3
No, but I love the tech tippers. I really want them just to add to this, I want them all to have like I'm king of the hill, lives on Instagram and whoever wins Tipper.

01:50:23:21 - 01:50:25:05
Speaker 4
So yeah, yeah.

01:50:25:20 - 01:50:54:03
Speaker 3
No, you know, I do and I don't. I play with it. And a lot of times I have some marketing stuff I do online. I could be better. I've taken a little bit of a step back from my Instagram just a little bit because it just like overwhelming and I I'm not as and even though I have a social media background like I work for Austin City Limits in my college days and did promotions and wrote on their Instagram and their Facebook.

01:50:55:05 - 01:51:16:19
Speaker 3
As much as I want to do that, I like my, my Instagram is more of like but it's almost like I'm like your bud you know and I will put out dates that I'm dating and people hire me like that. I'm not who is Cody Brad Bird and then they have 22,000 followers or more. I think that's a job and they know that it's a job.

01:51:16:20 - 01:51:29:13
Speaker 3
Get paid. I'm not willing to take that job for myself because I'm planning and all these other things. I'm just going to like it's just going to implode. I don't want to make content. It's a lot of work.

01:51:29:19 - 01:51:30:16
Speaker 4
It's it's a lot of.

01:51:30:16 - 01:51:43:20
Speaker 1
Work like these guys putting all, like all these tickets out and stuff and at these constantly putting videos, like, it's definitely easy to overlook just how much time and effort these guys spend to curate this content for their audience like it is for sure.

01:51:45:00 - 01:51:54:17
Speaker 2
Respects it. You got your climbing? Yeah. You got your clients, you got everything else. It's like then, you know, it might be like, Oh, it's only going to take eight or, 10 hours. It's like, yeah, but you like, do you have eight or ten hour?

01:51:54:17 - 01:51:55:19
Speaker 4
You have that. Yeah.

01:51:56:03 - 01:52:20:19
Speaker 3
More power to I'm like, hell yeah, yeah. I like both of those humans. I think they're like to the top people that I look at even for myself whenever I'm like, Oh yeah, how do you do that again? You'll like it. They're like, It's a good resource. Yeah, yeah. I just. I am not that person. Like, I remember one time this company asked me to, like, do some stuff they have like product, like rhino skin product.

01:52:20:19 - 01:52:42:08
Speaker 3
I was like, Hey, can you do like some advertisements for them? And I came up with these terrible, terrible info commercials. Like there's a line where I'm like, standing and they're all my highlights. So if you ever want to look at them, it's like me. Stand by. I'm standing by the boulder and I'm doing it advertising for their dry spray.

01:52:42:09 - 01:52:48:01
Speaker 3
And this is me. I'm like, I look weird. And I'm like, Are the borders making you what?

01:52:48:11 - 01:52:48:19
Speaker 4
Oh.

01:52:49:10 - 01:52:53:14
Speaker 3
So dries spray on your hands. And I like, go to this.

01:52:53:14 - 01:52:54:17
Speaker 4
Tutorial and it's.

01:52:54:23 - 01:53:18:21
Speaker 3
Awkward as hell. I don't like that. And I heard that. And like, rhinos eat them up and like put repost they like. And so I just sit there is like my friend Katie's like videotaping me and I'm like, I cannot sit down there. And I laughing. Then I finish it and I'm like.

01:53:19:08 - 01:53:20:16
Speaker 4
Oh, it was.

01:53:20:16 - 01:53:43:08
Speaker 3
Great. But I just think that like my content would be because people ask me to detect. It sounds like like there's no females are doing it and there's some, dude, I'm not going to tokenize just because you know this. You fucking do this. I'm checking that box off. I don't think that's I think that you're looking at it in the wrong way if you're going to put gender on everything with that.

01:53:43:08 - 01:54:01:19
Speaker 3
Like they're just really skilled freaking climbers and guides who put out really good information regardless of their sex. And that's great that they can do that. And at the time I just don't. And I'd be terrible at it. I probably need to think about everything like I do.

01:54:01:19 - 01:54:03:02
Speaker 4
So my.

01:54:03:02 - 01:54:04:08
Speaker 3
Inappropriateness.

01:54:06:00 - 01:54:06:11
Speaker 4
I think.

01:54:06:11 - 01:54:18:19
Speaker 2
I think, um, last time we spoke, you said that you are, we will say when you get fully certified with a I, I figure you'll be the 18th woman who's ever been fully certified in all those disciplines.

01:54:18:19 - 01:54:19:00
Speaker 4
That.

01:54:20:00 - 01:54:35:15
Speaker 3
I am projected to be. But there could be I could be like I'm or 20th. I think that was like have. Yeah. Is there two women I think like or one woman. But before me I think, yeah. And she's on my alpine exam.

01:54:35:15 - 01:54:35:22
Speaker 4
So I think.

01:54:35:23 - 01:54:51:18
Speaker 3
She might be 70 or 80, but I think that if she gets 17, but I'm projected to get 18 as long as this goes well. And then I get the ski program. If not, it's like Lonnie or somebody else, but like, dude, it's not a race. It's just like, no, totally.

01:54:51:18 - 01:55:03:21
Speaker 2
I was just wondering about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know that. That's that's really cool. That's super interesting. Do you feel competitive, though? Like you're are you interested in trying to vie for any of it?

01:55:04:09 - 01:55:09:06
Speaker 4
Top 20, top 20, yeah.

01:55:10:10 - 01:55:33:15
Speaker 3
Oh, I'm not like no, I'm not competing with like like it's just like legitimate internal competition. Yeah. Like I wouldn't be like killing myself against anybody because that doesn't go anywhere, right? Like I'm friends with all these women. These women are amazing. So it's like I'm just doing it out of my own friendly competition. Absolutely. Yeah. For myself.

01:55:33:15 - 01:55:34:13
Speaker 4
Yes. Yes.

01:55:34:13 - 01:55:54:17
Speaker 3
That's really trying to do that. And I'm competing with other guides do like, listen, we're all kind of competing against each other, but if we're all in big competition where it's not like malice or like giving it to each other and you're actually out there to help one another regardless of what company you're existing in that day, you're a good guide.

01:55:55:07 - 01:56:03:02
Speaker 3
Like, I'm not going to be a dick you as long as you're not. To me, obviously. And if you are, we'll just go to the side and have a little conversation and that's totally fine.

01:56:04:08 - 01:56:04:20
Speaker 4
But like.

01:56:05:03 - 01:56:09:20
Speaker 3
Yeah, I think that there's always competition in the world and of course, I want to be top 20.

01:56:10:08 - 01:56:13:15
Speaker 4
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

01:56:14:20 - 01:56:27:14
Speaker 2
Super rad. I know we're coming up at the two hour mark and we want to be respectful of your time here. But if you're if you're okay, I definitely would would love to ask you a little bit about Pakistan. Like what what do you do.

01:56:27:14 - 01:56:27:20
Speaker 3
Yeah.

01:56:28:00 - 01:56:30:13
Speaker 2
That give us all the four.

01:56:30:13 - 01:56:32:12
Speaker 4
Oh, oh, yeah.

01:56:32:16 - 01:56:44:04
Speaker 3
I'm so excited. Okay. So my friend Sarah Steele, she talked to me about going to Pakistan, like, a year ago. You like, what? Do you think I'm already in? Yeah. Where do I sign up? It's like.

01:56:44:04 - 01:56:44:12
Speaker 4
Done.

01:56:45:03 - 01:57:03:12
Speaker 3
It's like, hi. I had already gone because I've been like, I need to go back overseas and put up another. I haven't had the opportunity and I'm kind of giving myself to other people. She's like, Let's put a group together. I'm like, James McKee. That's our next woman that we're getting on our team because one jesy's frickin amazing.

01:57:04:00 - 01:57:32:02
Speaker 3
One of those genuine humans that are meant. She's very skilled, she's awesome to get along with like just good human. And by the way, this wasn't like an all female group. It was I, we picked these people because of their skillset and if they would fit within the mold that we were creating. Right. Yeah. I'm not, it's about vibe, it's about, it's about skillset and about like what we all like, you know, objective, right?

01:57:32:04 - 01:58:00:11
Speaker 3
Are we all like a similar thought process and like what objectives? And then I invited same Stephanie awesome young kid, wanted another D I wanted to do down there too for sure, but also wanted his ability with the climate because him and Jose were like amazing aid. Climbers are amazing. So it's like now we have to climbers and then me and Sarah who are like skilled in Alpine and other places.

01:58:00:11 - 01:58:25:19
Speaker 3
So we were filling in like, you know, everybody was going to have like a strength and weakness. Well, Sarah is pregnant, so she's not going. And then Jose just had other awesome life stuff that was like curating too. And she had to take between this business and going to Pakistan. And she picked the business. And I'm so proud of her because she's such a rad human.

01:58:25:19 - 01:58:29:06
Speaker 3
And then I looked at Sam, I see your mom. And what do you think?

01:58:29:17 - 01:58:30:04
Speaker 4
Yeah.

01:58:30:12 - 01:58:32:00
Speaker 3
And so then it ends up being.

01:58:32:22 - 01:58:33:16
Speaker 4
So kind of.

01:58:34:11 - 01:58:45:14
Speaker 3
Late. Now this is wealthy and seems to be going on like so three. It's it's Lindsay in the token men.

01:58:45:14 - 01:58:47:16
Speaker 4
So I'm just like, you know.

01:58:48:21 - 01:59:13:10
Speaker 3
And Dakota and Sam are very skilled climbers. Mathis is an amazing photographer, also has put up a lot of times with Sam and Dakota all over. And then Thomas and I are both like really good climbers, good alpine climbers, both guides. So you have that who I like, like I climb really well in the ice and mixed terrain.

01:59:13:10 - 01:59:41:14
Speaker 3
So if we ever had to do that, so does Thomas. So we have everybody has a position, right? Yeah. Everyone's like aid climbed and done a bunch of stuff like that. Some are better than the others. So me and Sam had done a bunch of research in the Cherokee South Valley. I sat down with Vince Anderson. Vince has been feeding me this information, just planting the seeds, sending, sending so many pictures of his expeditions.

01:59:41:14 - 01:59:47:03
Speaker 3
And you have to move this. I think it was like a lot of kids to just go have no ham.

01:59:47:10 - 01:59:47:23
Speaker 4
Yeah. Yeah.

01:59:47:23 - 02:00:13:01
Speaker 3
And I was like, okay, so like this, like, like team together and like seeing this done a bunch of like on his own has like quarters of like contacts and stuff. So what we're doing is going for low hanging rock climbing groups. We're not doing anything in the in the for Alpine. The only reason we're preparing for some that stuff is that we do have to get on a glacier to get on a climb.

02:00:13:15 - 02:00:50:17
Speaker 3
We can those that are like, I would be the one that would help out with all that too and be the strong one for climbing any of that terrain. So we're going into this valley just kind of near 47 and looking for some climb in and we're just going to go for it. We might I think we're going to climb like NASIR Barack which Steve house but like a 510 like huge great grade five on and so I'm sure we're going to do that time and just do like a warm up and like get acclimated and then start looking for lines and we're going, it could be a five year, who knows?

02:00:50:17 - 02:01:05:06
Speaker 3
Like, I don't know. We're going into it optimistic and psyched and happy. And our group is so amazing because we all like have communicated so well. And I think that's the thing. Like it's.

02:01:05:06 - 02:01:05:19
Speaker 4
Just.

02:01:07:01 - 02:01:13:01
Speaker 3
Great vibes and I'm sure we like fireworks and like if anybody gets mad at each other just like, like Kuerten.

02:01:13:13 - 02:01:14:03
Speaker 4
In the.

02:01:14:03 - 02:01:24:00
Speaker 3
Forward, if we get to, you know, yeah, it's going to be like and so we I think that like this group is such a great guy.

02:01:24:00 - 02:01:24:08
Speaker 4
Just.

02:01:25:09 - 02:01:46:01
Speaker 3
Because we just get each other, you know, like I've, I've had like little like moments with each one of them, good and bad, and we've dealt with it perfectly. And I'm like, Well, as long as that's happening here, that's what's going to happen out there too. Because I'm not saying too much like that doesn't change, like how I'm treating you right now.

02:01:46:01 - 02:02:02:06
Speaker 3
Like that's how I'm going to talk to you on the wall, you know, and probably even calmer because I'm not trying to get in on the fight on the wall. I want to be calm and get through the process and fix it versus like making it worse. And just if I'm feeling bad and I think everybody we've talked to all this.

02:02:02:18 - 02:02:24:23
Speaker 3
So I think that like we're just psyched about going out there on the venture. I'm getting, I have about $1,000 worth of school supplies that was actually seed for my for another India trip. But it happened to get back there. So I'm giving it to the that seed house has given me information about. We're also donating he's donating money to it, too.

02:02:25:10 - 02:02:51:21
Speaker 3
So it's a good thing it's just about the climbing for me. I always bring school supplies over to areas that I'm going to because I think that kids are in need of that thing. That's I've asked in other when I was in the Zanskar village and actually village they I asked the mom or ask me like wants to ask the mom like what are the kids need just like school supplies so hard.

02:02:52:09 - 02:03:05:13
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I had like and I'm always like school supplies or money for the teachers, you know, either salaries, let's do it. So that's a big part of this trip for me. I think one of the biggest parts.

02:03:06:09 - 02:03:33:04
Speaker 2
Of school so I'm actually familiar with this government and stuff. Steve House personally is like my, my favorite climber and alpinist and like, like training, you know, training for the new albinism kind of what got me into endurance training and into mountain training. So, you know, I'm, I'm familiar with some of this Anderson's accolades and while the valley with and some of their climbing stuff so yeah that's so rad that you guys are going there and you're doing that's really amazing.

02:03:33:20 - 02:03:53:09
Speaker 3
Yeah. I mean, we're not going to go to that high altitude like our altitude, like under 6000 meters. So which is cool. No, we're just trying to rock climb. I just want to go rock climbing, guys, and take my and some cracks. I want to I want to try really hard. I want to be really safe. I don't want to break any legs or anything like that.

02:03:53:09 - 02:04:11:22
Speaker 3
So just coming back healthy and as as well as I can and just be friends with everybody is like the biggest goal to, you know, alongside of like climbing something obviously I want to put a line up but like I want it to be I want to come home alive and I want to come home friends with the violent.

02:04:11:22 - 02:04:17:21
Speaker 4
With so yeah. Okay, so, so cool. So yeah.

02:04:19:18 - 02:04:23:11
Speaker 2
I don't know, I think that might be a perfect place to end this conversation.

02:04:24:23 - 02:04:25:23
Speaker 1
Sounds great to me, man.

02:04:26:11 - 02:04:45:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Lindsey, I just want to say you are super, super rad. You've gone me crazy motivated. This conversation was unreal, and I'm so happy that we ended up connecting and got you here. I really appreciate your time. I'm actually going climbing with my girlfriend. We're going to climb the chief tomorrow. And, like, you've just got to be so pumped on climbing and everything.

02:04:45:10 - 02:04:54:10
Speaker 2
So yeah, it's really awesome. And who knows, maybe even in the future, if you want to come on the show again and tell us about your trip to Pakistan. Yeah, I know. I'd love to talk to you again.

02:04:54:10 - 02:04:55:14
Speaker 4
So now is.

02:04:55:16 - 02:05:26:11
Speaker 3
My follow up for sure. One last thing I want to shout out to people is that like find a good space to learn. Go try hard and get like a really good find friends that are uplifting and teachers and mentors that will keep you motivated and stoked and to to continue with your passion. If it's in climbing, if it's not like just, you know, find a good group.

02:05:26:11 - 02:05:51:07
Speaker 3
And if you need any help with the climbing mentors like hit me up too. I do mentor days as well. I want anybody and everyone to feel comfortable coming to me for any advice and a good conversation. Even if you're like, I just need to talk to you about this. Like I've chatted with many people about MJ stuff or just climbing or guiding, and so please use me as a resource as well.

02:05:51:07 - 02:06:06:01
Speaker 3
I don't protect it. So but I do give Hyperion stuff out to people. So just psyched on letting everybody know that I'm a, I'm a resource for you too. For everybody.

02:06:06:01 - 02:06:41:03
Speaker 1
I thanks for tuning into today's conversation. Just a friendly reminder that we'd love to hear from you whether you're going through an injury, have a rad story or just want to share Stoke for the podcast. We are always pumped to receive messages until next time.