Today, in episode 16, we sit down, in person, with Jack Ryan an adaptive trad climber and mountaineer and founder of Paralyzed to Peaks. Jack is not your average trad climber. On November 29th Jack’s neck was crushed in an illegal move done by his blackbelt instructor during a Jiu-Jitsu sparing session. He suffered a broken neck at C4-C5 resulting in paralysis from the neck down as well as numerous strokes due to blood clotting the following morning. He lost everything that day and has been fighting to regain it all ever since. Since his life-changing injury, and having never climbed before, he has begun to forge a new path in the world of adaptive climbing. In August 2020, in tandem with the founding of Paralyzed to Peaks, Jack Ryan became the first and only individual with a spinal cord injury and incomplete quadriplegia to summit mount Whitney and is currently the only individual in the world with incomplete quadriplegia taking the sharp end on sport/trad climbs. He has a large vision for the future including several large technical mountaineering objectives and aims to change the world's perception of adaptive athletes.
Links:
1) Paralyzed to Peaks | https://paralyzedtopeaks.com/
2) IG | https://www.instagram.com/paralyzedtopeaks/
3) Paralyzed to Peaks - The Story of Jack Greener
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLgo20ZAbKk
Today, in episode 16, we sit down, in person, with Jack Ryan an adaptive trad climber and mountaineer and founder of Paralyzed to Peaks. Jack is not your average trad climber. On November 29th Jack’s neck was crushed in an illegal move done by his blackbelt instructor during a Jiu-Jitsu sparing session. He suffered a broken neck at C4-C5 resulting in paralysis from the neck down as well as numerous strokes due to blood clotting the following morning. He lost everything that day and has been fighting to regain it all ever since. Since his life-changing injury, and having never climbed before, he has begun to forge a new path in the world of adaptive climbing. In August 2020, in tandem with the founding of Paralyzed to Peaks, Jack Ryan became the first and only individual with a spinal cord injury and incomplete quadriplegia to summit mount Whitney and is currently the only individual in the world with incomplete quadriplegia taking the sharp end on sport/trad climbs. He has a large vision for the future including several large technical mountaineering objectives and aims to change the world's perception of adaptive athletes.
Links:
1) Paralyzed to Peaks | https://paralyzedtopeaks.com/
2) IG | https://www.instagram.com/paralyzedtopeaks/
3) Paralyzed to Peaks - The Story of Jack Greener
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLgo20ZAbKk
00:00:00:13 - 00:00:23:01
Speaker 1
Hey, everyone. Kyle here claiming majority. Just a quick reminder to please write and review us on your favorite pod catcher. Also, please tell your climbing friends about this podcast. As word of mouth is the most powerful way for you to help us out. Today in episode six, we sit down in person with Jack Ryan, an adaptive trad climber and mountaineer and the founder of Paralyzed Peaks.
00:00:24:00 - 00:00:49:18
Speaker 1
Jack is not your average trad climber on November 29th. Jack's neck was crushed in an illegal move done by his blackbelt instructor during a jujitsu sparring session. He suffered a broken neck at C4 C5, resulting in paralysis from the neck down, as well as numerous strokes due to blood clotting the following morning. He lost everything that day and has been fighting to regain it all ever since.
00:00:50:15 - 00:01:20:03
Speaker 1
Since his life changing injury and having never climbed before, he has begun to forge a new path in the world of adaptive climbing. In August, 2020 in tandem with the founding of Paralyzed Peaks, Jack Ryan became the first and only individual with a spinal cord injury and incomplete quadriplegia to summit Mt. Whitney and is currently the only individual in the world with incomplete quadriplegia, taking the sharp end on trade climbs.
00:01:21:03 - 00:01:56:10
Speaker 1
He has a large vision for the future, including several large technical mountaineering objectives and aims to change the world's perception of adaptive athletes Welcome to the show and thanks again for for subscribing and listening to what we got going on here. We're super excited to have our guest, Jack Ryan. That's what you'd like to go by right now.
00:01:56:13 - 00:02:17:05
Speaker 1
Jack Ryan. I ran into him on Instagram a couple of years ago and was super inspired by his story and just been following ever since. And he he reached out to me recently. He was in Tahoe and had this opportunity to have him on the show. We're really excited to hear his story and talk about everything that he has to offer.
00:02:17:05 - 00:02:19:23
Speaker 1
So, so welcome, Jack, and welcome to the podcast.
00:02:20:19 - 00:02:38:20
Speaker 2
Super stoked to be here. So crazy story. Like to fill in back on how like I know of Kyle. I did. How did Temple Crag two years ago Dark Star Guard star. Right. And I had just done it's how.
00:02:38:20 - 00:02:39:21
Speaker 1
Do we look it up how quick.
00:02:41:22 - 00:03:09:03
Speaker 2
We done the Alpine Lakes right near Temple Crag and Dark Star. It was my first big training overnight hike for Mount Whitney in 2020 in that or my first attempt at that squash because of fires and everything and so I found Kyle I was like looking at the Temple Crag like location, big pine, pine lights. I was looking at like big pine lakes, like hashtag or like location or something.
00:03:09:03 - 00:03:27:18
Speaker 2
And Kyle's content popped up I was like, because I was looking at Temple Crag and I was like, how sick would it be to climb that? I mean, I found his videos, and then I've been following him ever since. So this was actually these videos have been actually super informative to me as a budding track climber. Yeah, I've learned a lot from them.
00:03:27:18 - 00:03:53:07
Speaker 2
It's actually been really cool. So I'd like to find final actually be here and connected and is like super rad. And then on top of that, I found out Kyle's girlfriend like Crazy World we live in Hannah's sister, Paula, we met in March of 2019 when I exited in-patient at Craig Hospital and I started to get on like the dating apps.
00:03:53:14 - 00:04:16:02
Speaker 2
Mind you, I was still in a wheelchair at the time often. And so I matched with Paula on Bumble when she lived in the old in and she took me out on my first like first day where I was like totally disabled in a chair, like wow. Took me to beer and gold in like took me to Lookout Mountain, like took me to Red Rocks Amphitheater, like show me around.
00:04:16:02 - 00:04:38:16
Speaker 2
And I was like super friendly, super kind to me. And then, like, we walked into Kyle's place and he's like, oh, yeah, like, this is Hannah. And then she's like, oh, yeah, I followed you because my sister, like, who's your sister? Hosea. And then I was like, I know that. And yeah, so just like, full circle, just come back to the wants, which is, which is wild.
00:04:38:20 - 00:04:40:01
Speaker 2
So, yeah, super crazy.
00:04:40:08 - 00:04:47:20
Speaker 1
I, myself and Hannah included didn't even know that part of the story. And so it's super interesting to have that come full circle.
00:04:48:14 - 00:05:13:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. Wow. Just really, really crazy story about like you guys meeting and going through that and also quite fortuitous and pretty interesting. Yeah. So it's almost like it's meant to be sort of thing, you know? Yeah. Yeah, totally. But to dove into the story, I can also preface it with like who I was before, and then we'll kind of go, we'll go into the meeting itself and then a bit of the rehab process.
00:05:13:06 - 00:05:36:05
Speaker 2
But I don't want to go too deep just because it's like it could turn into like 2 hours long. Yeah. So yeah, yeah. Who was Jack Ryan? Greener before? I grew up in SoCal, spoiled San Diego. Can I tell you, I had a silver spoon growing up. No shame in admitting it. I was comfortable. Yeah, but my parents made me work and they made work hard.
00:05:37:05 - 00:06:01:05
Speaker 2
They made like I like to joke if I wanted something, they made me do PowerPoint presentations, so, like, earned the right to get that thing. Yeah. So, yeah, I grew up in Scripps, in San Diego, in what didn't I do? I grew up in karate. I wrestled in high school. I was like city champion. It's pretty decent that it didn't go to state or anything.
00:06:01:05 - 00:06:23:07
Speaker 2
I wasn't that good. But an awesome surfing. Surfing was a massive part of my life from the time I was about four or five years old, grew up surfing with my dad and ended up surfing all over the West Coast as a teenager and young adult from the North Shore of Hawaii to north to Costa Rica to Nicaragua.
00:06:23:07 - 00:06:45:18
Speaker 2
I like. Yeah. And then on top of that, like was what some what what most would consider like a waterman, right? So I was in multiple disciplines of like water sports. We had the surfing. I grew up sailing the Catalina Air with some family friends, and that subsequently led to free diving. And so I also grew up free diving.
00:06:45:18 - 00:07:15:17
Speaker 2
And then that transition is spear fishing and lobster diving and backpacking as well. So yeah, I grew up hunting. Hunting was a big thing. Self-sufficiency, camping in the backcountry. And then that eventually led to like big mountain peaks like prior to my accident. So it was I was very athletic I tried traveled the world on my own dime to my credit, like I did I did work in and paid the money to do so.
00:07:15:17 - 00:07:45:03
Speaker 2
And it was I went into college in 2014 to San Diego State and I had no, I thought I was going to do computer science you know, thinking about the future, being logical about it. Then I got into like a class and I was like, fuck this, this is what girls don't like this being the ex Rasta I once was and I just realized it wasn't for me.
00:07:45:03 - 00:08:18:06
Speaker 2
And then found out about like sustainability. And then in San Diego, like surfer hippie kid that I grew up as like sustainability made a lot of sense and I was like, I want to see the world. Like, I like green practices, like all this stuff. And then that manifested itself into surf tourism. So I always knew from the get go, like in middle or like sophomore, junior year of high school, I was obsessed with Costa Rica, Nicaragua, but my dad wasn't as a hardcore surfer as I was and so he never I wasn't.
00:08:18:11 - 00:08:36:17
Speaker 2
Can we go down, like, for my birthday or something? No, we're not going to a third world country. And so I made it my mission through college, like I spent 20, 15 as a surf guide in Nicaragua, and it worked great down there. I determined that I wanted to run surf camps and I was going to be my life.
00:08:36:17 - 00:09:08:12
Speaker 2
And so I spent my study abroad in this regard, studying environmental science and like soil and all this shit and like sustainable practices. And then 20, 18 rolls along and I'm getting ready to graduate at the end of the year. And I had lined up a job in the side of Costa Rica to teach surf professionally and do marketing work salaried in Costa Rica, which if you have a salary job in history, that's quite a bit of money and yeah, the world was my oyster.
00:09:08:12 - 00:09:34:09
Speaker 2
I was in luxury real estate at the time in North County, like working 20 hours a week doing digital marketing and life could not have been much better. And classically White also finds a way to kick you in the ass and humble you. And I'd been practicing jujitsu for about a year and a half, just under two years, I think, and transferred around gyms.
00:09:34:09 - 00:10:01:21
Speaker 2
But San Diego was like the Mecca for jujitsu outside of Brazil. Just was like the Mecca for climbing is like Yosemite and like, I guess Boulder or like, what's the place in Salt Lake City? Not like Jones Valley, like that area. There's just the Mecca for jujitsu, San Diego. And so naturally, having grown up wrestling and grown up in variety like all that, it was just an organic transition.
00:10:02:09 - 00:10:28:23
Speaker 2
but I just there's something about it's like when you enter a sport, just like with climbing right it's you go, Oh shit, this is really hard and I want to get better at this or Oh shit, this is really hard. I never want to do this again. Right? So there's, there's, there's two types of people and I fell in that first category of like oceans where I want to keep doing this.
00:10:29:16 - 00:10:55:06
Speaker 2
So I've been training a bit and I transferred gyms mid 20, 18 just to be closer to home and my apartment because as we know, coming out like traffic in San Diego, sex and going it kind of like into the story of the accident. Right. I kind of had this like rehearsed at this point so like day like any other right.
00:10:55:06 - 00:11:16:12
Speaker 2
I wake up, I do my morning surf check, I check my schedule and study schedule for school. I'm like, okay, I don't have anything to do for that. And then I check my work schedule and my marketing portfolio and all that. Like OK, I have to do like one Instagram post and like put out an app that takes like an hour if that.
00:11:18:00 - 00:11:38:12
Speaker 2
And so I was like, cool. Like I'm going to go on a surf check right up the one on one, go to Salome's swimming pools, my home, great, beautiful area. I realize like surfing garbage I went to go grab coffee at my favorite spot, so to watch them to the boys was like did some journaling deliver some affirmation work?
00:11:38:12 - 00:12:00:15
Speaker 2
Some like not a little bit of meditation. And then I headed home back to my place and dumar and I was like looking at the clock and some oatmeal or something like that. And so not like I should go to the noon like no jujitsu class like I haven't been to the new class ever at time. It's like basically a day off.
00:12:00:15 - 00:12:23:09
Speaker 2
Like let's just go train some good work and have some fun. So went down to the gym and went through the standard, you know, warm ups like moves techniques. For one, there's like more of a sparring every day.
00:12:23:09 - 00:12:50:03
Speaker 2
And one of these rounds, it was I think we had about 10 minutes last few classes, about 12:49 p.m..
00:12:51:00 - 00:13:16:18
Speaker 2
And I was in a protective position like what we call turtle. So like you're covering your, your neck, you're covering your, your head, you're kind of like on all fours like scratched up and yeah, he what I thought was a bad takedown, like my brain thought it was something else. But it turns out we have evidence of video and whatnot.
00:13:16:18 - 00:13:44:23
Speaker 2
But he basically put his knee into the back of my neck, which is illegal, and then taught me over. And so my body went, but my net did it and was mine. He broke my neck second see five giving me an incomplete spinal cord injury. We, we didn't know it was incomplete at the time. I just so I lost everything from basically the middle of my neck down just gone.
00:13:45:06 - 00:14:09:09
Speaker 2
And the way I describe it to people is like, you get into a hot tub, right? And you just get this warm flushing feeling it's the same feeling you get when you break your neck, which is weird, warm, like from the toes up. It's like everything just goes quiet completely numb and like, really, like, warm and fuzzy. And I screamed out like, I can't move.
00:14:09:09 - 00:14:38:18
Speaker 2
I can't move. 29112 getting stripped down, make it on the mats, put on an isolation like headboard. I was in the the ambulance and I remember, like, starting to go into shock a bit and looking up at the paramedic who just had the biggest fucking ginger mustache we ever imagine. And I go, I honestly, I don't mind you ever going to walk again?
00:14:38:18 - 00:14:58:20
Speaker 2
I'm ever going to walk again. And he's just looking at me not saying a word like, yeah, worst case scenario, right? He's his job was just literally to keep me alive. And I know that in retrospect that at the time, I'm like, please just tell me something, right? And get carted to strip the whole ICU somehow, some way.
00:14:58:20 - 00:15:18:13
Speaker 2
My parents are on either side as I get pushed out of the ambulance. And by that point, I'm in shock and I go, I'm just apologized profusely, like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I never meant for this to happen, blah, blah, blah. But they were like, You're going to be OK. Like and they're saying that to comfort me later.
00:15:18:13 - 00:16:03:14
Speaker 2
And no one has any idea the the health severity of what we're about to go through. Because in the ICU, they run a bunch of diagnostics. They determine like, Okay, you're next broken at four or five, you have a spinal cord injury we don't know how. We don't know how severe it is. And you have some internal bleeding from like the fragments in your neck, like cutting some stuff that and the internal bleeding part is like a really important part because 13 hours post accident that internal bleeding became clots and that resulting in me having hemorrhagic stroke so and multiple clots pass through my brain and the story goes from my nurses like my dear friend
00:16:03:14 - 00:16:26:17
Speaker 2
you watch the film Justin he had this gut feeling at the time as my nurse. Like he was like for whatever reason I'd been telling him all afternoon that first day, I was like, hey, something's wrong. And he's like, roll your vitals. Check out like fucking paralyze the. Yeah, you know, what are we going to do? Something's really wrong.
00:16:26:17 - 00:17:04:01
Speaker 2
And it all goes back to look at that athletic piece of like, I was so into my body and like, especially the free diving component, I credit free diving for not having a full blown, like, panic attack in the ambulance. Like a breathing techniques that I learned from free diving at 16 and like the performance free diving classes, I took as like a birthday present has manifested itself in every aspect of my life, from like daily meditation to like rock climbing where I'm like able to really calm myself down when I'm on a lead.
00:17:04:01 - 00:17:29:12
Speaker 2
So to that and like I was so in tune, I just, I was like, really processing energy. There's something incredibly wrong here. And I kept telling him this and 13 hours goes around like 1 a.m. on the 30th. Well, got screaming bloody murder just like I'm going to die like it's over, like I'm done for. And yet I had this intuition to stay near me.
00:17:29:12 - 00:17:48:12
Speaker 2
So rather than being all the way down on the other end of the hallway, right? He decided that he was going to be in the one desk that was directly across from my room. Had he not been there, I would be dead. I want to be sitting in this chair like the stress would have probably left me brain dead, right?
00:17:48:16 - 00:18:25:06
Speaker 2
And I would have flatline and I for all I know, I'm pretty sure dead at one point. And so he comes rushing in, runs a stroke diagnostic. I'm completely incapacity I'm gone. And Q Surgeons, emergency personnel, all these people coming in to basically keep me alive. So I got operated on for 9 hours from basically 130 in the morning till like ten ish was completely under as vaguely remember like coming to and this is something I need to go to therapy for.
00:18:25:08 - 00:18:48:18
Speaker 2
And I were talking about this before, but I vaguely remember coming to the O.R. where I like, I just remember seeing like a halo of lights and like people operating and then let's back out. And what happened was the way it works when you're back, when you're basically at death is age one try to save your brain and they try to save your critical organs.
00:18:49:12 - 00:19:12:09
Speaker 2
And then it goes your limbs. And then it goes like movement, like movements, last priority. And so the story goes, my mom got called in about 2 a.m. is in the waiting room. Surgeon comes up, my mom goes like, oh, my God. Like, what's going on? Like, tell me, tell me he's going to be OK. Just like your son had hemorrhagic stroke.
00:19:13:18 - 00:19:40:08
Speaker 2
Things are looking as you saw initially, you said that some certain things are not looking good. Things are not good. They're worst case. It's like I have to go in and save your son's life. My mom just throws a hands off and goes OK, that's this is life in the ICU, right? Yeah. And that's the first 24 hours like most accident.
00:19:41:15 - 00:20:06:10
Speaker 2
And I spent I spent about two and a half weeks in the ICU after the operating like they use my neck. They removed all the clots from my from my the back of my neck that were left over. I had to be intubated. So I'm like trade star. I was on a ventilator to not talk, not breathe on my own.
00:20:07:00 - 00:20:34:05
Speaker 2
And just had my neck fuzed completely paralyzed, neck down. All I had were my eyes at the time and like a little movement in my right arm and so began the journey. And was this new? That is this new body and this new timeline and stories now we as I said, two weeks in the ICU, things just kind of started to snowball like that.
00:20:34:09 - 00:20:41:18
Speaker 2
Some feeling back. The next thing you know, I have a toe. And then fast forward, I took a private medical jet to Craig Hospital in Denver.
00:20:44:03 - 00:21:11:23
Speaker 2
You know, I get a sudden death and like the way I describe it to everyone is you're trapped in an ice block. You have no idea how that ice block is going to dissolve a quarter of the ice block ends at all. Half of that maybe like maybe more. And you don't know and so somehow, some way like I just became hell bent on creating a miracle and like walking again and it just happened.
00:21:12:00 - 00:21:48:07
Speaker 2
Walk out, just happen. It's it's spinal cord injuries probably about 90% lock and 10% right away. And anyone with like a similar experience might probably say the same exact thing. So it's it's gnarly the way the progress that I've seen. Is it surprised to me still. Yes and no. I just I'd already had such a foundational understanding of body mechanics and the nerve innovation and all that.
00:21:48:07 - 00:21:54:19
Speaker 2
Like I think it definitely did help but no one could predicted the outcome that you continue to have.
00:21:55:08 - 00:22:16:05
Speaker 1
I think I want to rewind a little bit here. I think that first first off, you know, Max and I, we we've talked about our own personal injuries and just the shock of the situation that we find ourselves in, in the immediate aftermath of of realizing that we're not at some sort of stability. You know, you you have time to start processing things.
00:22:17:02 - 00:22:36:21
Speaker 1
It sounds like you you immediately started to start to take the small wins. You're like, right, cool. Like, I got a finger. I got a I got a sore. I'm like, you're you're already counting those small wins. And I think that's like a really important process of of dealing with with the trauma that you're currently in. My question is, is from this is kind of a heavy one.
00:22:37:15 - 00:22:58:17
Speaker 1
When did the reality of your situation really hit you? And what was that process like and how did you kind of like get a hold of of that reality and and turn that focus on to the small wins and realizing that you have to live in the moment and you have to take these moments like can you describe that mental process a little bit?
00:22:58:20 - 00:23:35:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. So the reality dawned on me when I was coming off detox, not federal, not English, right? And so I got to pray hospital. I went cold turkey off all the painkillers. And that's when reality really started. Like I came off that like drug induced high and depending on dosages and so that first week, it was my brother, my dad, my mom and my brother's ex-girlfriend all there and all I was I was in pain, immense amounts of pain.
00:23:35:21 - 00:24:03:09
Speaker 2
I shit myself twice in that first day or two that was all awesome to see my can I see you're conscious, but you're not like that loss of privacy doesn't really hold that much gravity but the loss of privacy really struck me when I got to Craig Hospital because I was like, I'm having a male nurse, like, wipe shit off of me and, like, put a positive light up my rectum.
00:24:03:23 - 00:24:29:05
Speaker 2
Like, that's a very real and raw experience that many most men will never, ever experience. So like, the reality really hit then. And so it manifested itself in like a lot of crying a lot of like never there was never a moment of like me, he never had that moment, but there was moments of just like, like I'm astounded this way.
00:24:29:16 - 00:25:02:18
Speaker 2
How, how, how is this even possible? Like, this only happens to people you kind of know through the grapevine. This doesn't happen to like your son. This doesn't happen to your brother. This doesn't happen to like your loved one. You know, and that was tough. And the little ones, I, I barely celebrated because the little wins were not big enough to signify normality or progress or progress.
00:25:02:22 - 00:25:31:21
Speaker 2
Right. So I in those first, I mean all through my inpatient stay at like a night where I spent probably 3 hours on face time, really bad night where it was just my mom and I from like 7:00 in the night to like 10:00 at night where I just screamed and howled and just fell in. So she told me at one point in the break where I kind of like ran out of tears.
00:25:31:21 - 00:25:59:11
Speaker 2
Ghost economy. Like every time you cry, like you get stronger and you need to cry and you need to let everything out and so I would and that's how I handled the reality and processed it moment by moment is like, I act like as men, we're not taught to cry. We're not taught to express those things. But I grew up in a family of very strong women, and so I, I emulated what they did and what they told me.
00:25:59:11 - 00:26:27:14
Speaker 2
And so yeah, I cried a lot. I'm a big proponent of that. I think it's one of the healthiest outlets a human, especially a male, can engage in when in a secure environment. And that's how it's handled. The reality at the time was like, OK, I'm going to bust my ass. I'm going to work my ass off. Like I'm going to become a professional athlete and rehab, but I'm also going to cry.
00:26:28:07 - 00:26:29:15
Speaker 2
I'm going to cry a lot yeah.
00:26:30:10 - 00:26:48:11
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I was on one of these podcasts recently. Like, I've had moments like that too. And and for me, it's been kind of delayed in the moment. I was very much like, all right, I'm just going to get better. I'm just going to get better. Like, that's all I'm going to focus on. And it wasn't until, like, I actually got back on my feet where I started to have this, this flood of emotions.
00:26:48:11 - 00:27:03:23
Speaker 1
And I just started crying and and just feeling super down for for no real reason because, you know, my life had been pretty good up to that point. I got back. I'm on my feet and walking around like I have things to celebrate, but the reality of the situation and the trauma that I had gone through hadn't really been processed yet.
00:27:04:09 - 00:27:11:21
Speaker 1
And yeah, like that release, like you said, and crying and just like being open to giving your body that release is super, super important.
00:27:13:12 - 00:27:33:11
Speaker 2
Yeah. I think for me it's kind of I think me funny's the wrong word. But clearly the stigmatization of men showing their feelings touched so deep because like you, even yourself are having to explain like that stigmatization. It's like, dude, you like broke your neck, you almost fucking died. You don't even get to cry for that. Like, what do you get to cry for?
00:27:33:11 - 00:28:14:04
Speaker 2
It's pretty absurd, right? So yeah, I think that's, that's pretty crazy. But for sure, like, is it emotional just to let that go? You must have been kind of weird way, like something powerful. Maybe in hindsight, maybe in the moment. Obviously you know, probably probably not feeling like that, but in hindsight, I could really see that. I'm kind of curious and wondering, like, you know, through this process, did you like did you did your mindset take on like an era of positivity, like early on, or did it really take you a lot of, like, suffering and misery, you know, psychologically before you kind of came to this realization of like needing to to feel positive
00:28:14:04 - 00:28:34:14
Speaker 2
and to have that outlook of life, those small victories yeah. So I was the rock for everyone around me. I didn't give myself the opportunity to feel bad for myself. I was just like I had this the first saw when my neck broke, right? It was like, oh, shit, I can't move. The second thought was, I'm going to be OK.
00:28:35:13 - 00:29:04:05
Speaker 2
Whether that's divine intervention, if you're religious, if that's just a brain mechanism to cope with extreme trauma in the immediate moment, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not religious, but I just had this innate belief that I was going to make it out of it. And I also have that innate belief in prior the accident where I was like, I'm going to be wildly successful in whatever I choose, and it's just a matter of time.
00:29:05:01 - 00:29:30:15
Speaker 2
So that belief transitioned over into my recovery in that like my family was like, Oh yeah, you'll walk in. They told me like a year or two years later, like we're going to survive. We, we they were planning my end of life plans that first week in the hospital and had my had the injury been complete, right. And I would have lost everything like shoulders down.
00:29:31:22 - 00:29:59:08
Speaker 2
I was going to be offered assisted suicide and by all means I would have taken it. I have no shame. And yet there's to me, there have been no plane living a life completely wheelchair bound on a straw right. So I have that innate belief. I knew that I was going to succeed and I became hell bent and made it my mission to basically be like, I'm going to prove everybody in this hospital wrong.
00:29:59:08 - 00:30:18:03
Speaker 2
I'm going to prove every single doctor wrong. I'm not only going to walk again, I'm going to excel past how severe this is. And, you know, three almost it's been three years now, three, not two years later. Like it shows the shows.
00:30:18:11 - 00:30:37:01
Speaker 1
I think that the the the way you're talking about your mentality about this whole situation brings really true to, to the kind of mindset that I had through through my injury and also through through my life. As you know, Max and I have talked about, this is just the power of expectation I think that I like to use that word a lot.
00:30:37:01 - 00:30:56:21
Speaker 1
I think that when we expect things to happen in our lives and you use the word believe that, you know, you you knew to your core that it was true. And to me, that's that's an expectation. You're expecting that to happen in your life. And I think that that is that in itself is extremely powerful because it it doesn't really give you the option of having anything else.
00:30:56:21 - 00:31:13:18
Speaker 1
And so every decision you make moving forward leads you to that goal. And the universe is a very powerful way of supporting someone who has a pretty clear defined expectation for how they want their life. And it definitely seems like you you use that in kind of the situation that you're in to manifest where you are now.
00:31:13:21 - 00:31:38:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I just gone through like a big spiritual breakthrough about three or four months prior to the accident. Like complete mindset shifts, like really stop trying to be selfish about how I spent my time and my money with people. Like, it was just there's this profound shift. And I got really I'd already been kind of in meditation, but it really became a centerpiece for me.
00:31:38:19 - 00:32:10:05
Speaker 2
And then journaling to like the saying that came to mind is like that expectation of success. Like the phrase that came to mind was like, I'm a millionaire and I made $1,000,000. I just haven't made $1,000,000 yet. Right? Like I'm a millionaire. I just haven't made it right or is that is very American. I'll give you guys you know, I've always had that belief right.
00:32:10:09 - 00:32:38:06
Speaker 2
If I make $1,000,000, great. If I don't, who gives a fuck? It's just all vanity. But yeah, it's that. That belief, that die hard belief, like every single day in therapy, I was willing to die. Like, I was willing to go to the very edges of, like, consciousness I did. Like, I did it every single day where you because your blood pressure, your pulmonary system gets fucked up.
00:32:38:06 - 00:32:59:19
Speaker 2
And like, when they put me in a standing frame the first time, they, like, slowly cranking up. And I you can feel the blood drain from your brain. Wow. And like, my dad would watch me watch the color drained from my face and would keep going keep going, keep going. Right to the right to the edge of consciousness where I'm like starting pass out.
00:33:00:02 - 00:33:24:09
Speaker 2
I would be like, Barb, put me down. I'm going to sit me down really quick. Right now. I did that every single day for 100 days straight, basically. And another funny part about like losing consciousness part they give you medical grade cocaine. Oh, really? Yeah. It's actually, I think on a parameter or something that it's literally a liquid.
00:33:24:09 - 00:33:59:07
Speaker 2
You're game y when you started to lose blood pressure A, I would be like getting an early and then give me the cocaine. It's not if I'm like I look at my dad, I'm like, my dad was in Chicago, so he knows it's true. I guess he's like, you know, this is he jammed up my nose. Like, if I like too much, just this and I was that was a regular thing for weeks on end to hell.
00:33:59:08 - 00:34:01:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. Hey, I mean, that's a good motivating factor to keep sending.
00:34:03:19 - 00:34:10:15
Speaker 2
This guy says, let's don't do this, like ratcheting up this. But back to that.
00:34:10:21 - 00:34:11:22
Speaker 1
Kind of like manifest.
00:34:11:22 - 00:34:33:15
Speaker 2
Destiny, that mindset. You know, as recently when I was a kid, I went to this alternative school when I was young and there was this influential. I think he was like a youth, like a youth worker or something like that. And his name's Peter, and he's really big into, like, outdoor activities and stuff. And he was white water kayaking, and he unfortunately got paralyzed from the waist down.
00:34:34:14 - 00:34:51:13
Speaker 2
But I actually just saw him the other day, kind of reconnected, was out for a coffee. We had a good conversation. And he was really just talking about kind of a similar thing to you is that like, you know, like your outlook and your perspective on life is going to really dictate so much. And there's so many things that just are terrible or are unfortunate.
00:34:52:09 - 00:35:17:12
Speaker 2
But if you have to different universes in the exact same person and they're undergoing this traumatic event and one of them is just willingly trying to have a positive outlook on the event in their life, you know, and assuming that they have some level of agency and like making their situation better, whatever that means, that person is going to ultimately be happier and more successful and feel better.
00:35:17:16 - 00:35:39:15
Speaker 2
You know what I mean? And I think going through trauma or really dark times, you know, the that that kind of thing is really, really important mindset can in a way be everything. Right? It really seems like that was a really really powerful avenue for you, obviously. Yeah. Trauma magnifies your personality tenets.
00:35:40:13 - 00:35:42:21
Speaker 1
I've never heard that as actually really cool yeah.
00:35:42:22 - 00:36:08:18
Speaker 2
So interesting. My my personality was already centered on meditation and journaling. I, I'd already done all the work. I'd already been doing the work for a few years by then. Right. So trauma magnifies a personality. It magnifies the best in your personality, but it also magnifies the worse you personality. And then that manifests itself in what we call PTSD yeah.
00:36:09:05 - 00:36:32:05
Speaker 2
So I think in my case, the trauma brought out the absolute best in me. And now on the flip side of that, three and a half years later, I'm starting to see the more negative effects of it. And I noted to Tyler having a bite to eat, I go, you know, the past two or three months, my mental health has been a garbage can.
00:36:32:16 - 00:37:01:22
Speaker 2
I don't really I don't drink a lot. I'm not huge into substances. I've done I've done it all, but like pretty relatively sober person by most, most accounts. And what's been bubbling up in the past three months, which has been all this suppressed PTSD that's been manifesting itself like in the more like I cried in the morning yesterday before I went to work, you know, and like I've been going to bag and like reliving various situations, right?
00:37:01:23 - 00:37:27:20
Speaker 2
So there is a pop. There's trauma is good, I think in a way. Right? But there now I'm now I'm personally dealing with the follow up fallout of it currently. And it's tough. Like it's really tough. And I wish I didn't have to be that way currently, just given the current situation and stuff that's going on that I can't openly discuss.
00:37:27:20 - 00:37:29:15
Speaker 2
But it is what it is. So.
00:37:30:21 - 00:37:51:23
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think that, you know, one thing I'd like to to preface and I think that this is super important for the audience to know, you know, you were put in this situation by somebody else and I think that that's like the hardest pill to swallow. I think that in climbing accidents, you do it to yourself. For the most part, whether you're hit by a rock, then it's the universe that just takes you out.
00:37:51:23 - 00:38:29:03
Speaker 1
But in general, it's our errors is our own mistakes that gets us into these situations. And in your case, it's quite the opposite. And I think that that's for me, if I were to put myself in your shoes empathetically, that is the hardest pill to swallow. Would you say that this kind of understanding of the fact that, you know, the the powerlessness and the the the victimization, not to say that you are a victim, but the fact that you are a victim in this kind of situation, you know, is that part of this kind of PTSD that you're you're experiencing now?
00:38:29:03 - 00:38:39:04
Speaker 1
Has it taken this long for for kind of the reality and the heaviness of that situation to hit you now? Or was that something that you you realized in that you processed earlier on?
00:38:39:20 - 00:39:05:05
Speaker 2
It's slowly been bubbling, but I think it's come to a bit of a head in the past few months. Right. An example would have been last year I was out for tacos by myself. I typically go get a beer and see on a weekly basis alone once, if not twice a week. Usually and I was out and I thought I saw the individual who did this to me walk into the taco restaurant.
00:39:05:05 - 00:39:32:13
Speaker 2
I was in the corner and I completely locked up. Right. You know, I made the analogy that for better or for worse, like I am a rape victim. Like it's the same sex, it's the same loss of dignity, of not blaming the perpetrator like all this sort of thing. And so when that situation occurred and I thought this person walked into the place that I was in, I literally could not move.
00:39:32:13 - 00:39:50:06
Speaker 2
I went into a cold sweat. I texted my friend, I was like, oh, my God, like, you have to come get me. I'm stuck. You you're right. And it turned out it wasn't. This person is literally somebody identical, this person. Wow. And I he he had sat down next to me and I was like, oh, my God, it's not this person.
00:39:50:19 - 00:39:56:07
Speaker 2
I just slowly walked out and then just bawled when I So.
00:39:57:18 - 00:40:21:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, heavy stuff. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's like, again, this is like the hardest part for me is just like you. The analogy that you said, like being being a rape victim and you definitely you definitely are. And that's like just is the hardest pill to swallow. So, yeah, I just wanted to kind of preface that moving forward kind of through kind of where we are now and moving forward because I think it's such an important part of your story and.
00:40:21:18 - 00:40:33:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. Max, anything else on, on kind of the incident and the rehab before we move on to kind of a little bit breathing over his creation of of paralyzed weeks.
00:40:34:23 - 00:40:51:13
Speaker 2
I think the only thing just to touch on that is like I don't know if you've heard of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? But it's like physical needs, safety needs, belonging, esteem, cognitive needs, and then I think like esthetic and then self-actualization and then it goes into transcendence, right? Or you're like talking about processing this stuff psychologically.
00:40:51:13 - 00:41:11:03
Speaker 2
And it's like coming like years after the fact. Right. And to me, I just think of like you're you know, you go through that time period, it's like step one is like this physical needs, right? And then step two is safety and then like belonging and love. And it's like eventually once you progress enough in your rehabilitation, you're going to get to that point of where it's like cognitive.
00:41:11:03 - 00:41:20:11
Speaker 2
You know, it's like, OK, you no longer have these like immediate dumpster fires that you're like trying to put out, right? And so it's like so like, I get to this point where.
00:41:20:11 - 00:41:21:06
Speaker 1
Like, OK, like.
00:41:21:13 - 00:41:44:17
Speaker 2
You know, it's like these are going to set in, like, things are going to bubble up. Things are going to come up, right? It's such a traumatic event. So I don't know, I just your story kind of made me think of that stuff. So that's the last that's a really great point. That's I actually never I know like I yeah, I knew of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, but like the way you just broke it down and like, like oh, yeah, yeah.
00:41:44:17 - 00:42:02:18
Speaker 2
You're exactly right. It's like once like once those immediate things you start getting and working through, you're going to get to a point where you actually have time to that reflection in that self. And it's, it's going to set in differently, right? Yeah, it just, it just made me think of that. And I thought it was an interesting point.
00:42:04:03 - 00:42:27:19
Speaker 2
But yeah, you know, like, like Tyler saying, you know, we've kind of touched on who you are and your history and your accident and, and your rehabilitation and, you know, I think that that's kind of pushing us into this, this project of yours, which is you realize the piece and maybe you can kind of tell us, like, you know, how that came about, what was the thought process for that?
00:42:28:09 - 00:42:54:10
Speaker 2
And maybe like, you know, give people an understanding because for somebody who is listening right now, they don't understand how how your recovery even going and stuff like that. So you can go through that process. Yeah. So perilous piece originally started out as an idea called Peak Moments, and it started as a website where in 2020 I was like, I'm going to document my journey to go going and climbing the link.
00:42:55:01 - 00:43:17:22
Speaker 2
And it's never been done with somebody with a spinal cord injury, never been done with somebody with incomplete quadriplegia, which to me is more severe like than an incomplete because they retain, they retain their full body, but they retain all the upper body strength. So what point might be made? It never been done. And so for you, just quickly explain what quadriplegia is.
00:43:18:13 - 00:43:47:17
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think he doesn't know. Yeah. Yeah. So quadriplegia is if you have complete quadriplegia where every broke your neck and there's severing or complete bruising of the spinal cord, you lose everything from that nerve correlation down. So C four and C five, had I been complete in my spinal cord severed or completely. Bruce were signals cannot pass through, I would have lost everything deltoids down.
00:43:48:11 - 00:44:16:17
Speaker 2
So the only part of my body currently having an incomplete injury is full strength or my traps. It's only normal neurologic portion of my body everything below that level of injury from my deltoids to my hands, my arms to my legs like hits back. Everything is neurologically affected and paralyzed in some capacity. And that's what makes an incomplete spinal cord injury.
00:44:16:23 - 00:44:46:02
Speaker 2
So an incomplete spinal cord injury and an incomplete quadriplegic spinal cord injury means that signals can bypass bruising in my neck on the spinal cord, but they are rerouted in a way that it results in muscular weakness, severe. When I walk with a cane lack of function in my bladder, lack function like sexual health, lack of function in my bowels.
00:44:46:14 - 00:45:08:18
Speaker 2
I don't count. I climb. Before this, I kind of gave a breakdown of how I climb. Like I don't really have a core. I don't have much of a chance. I have full function. My left hand, but it's still considered weak and I have like record dysfunction in my right hand, no index finger and much of my thumb and whatnot.
00:45:08:18 - 00:45:29:14
Speaker 2
Is paralyzed. So and then my left arm, if it's locked out like on a on a wrench, I can't pull with the bicep. But I have to pull with like my ribs out and like what little light I have. My lats are pretty much paralyzed, right? But on my right arm I can pull with that and have full strength.
00:45:29:14 - 00:45:55:14
Speaker 2
I'm a writer and then it's like it's a different equation with my way to my self I can walk, but I am dramatically impacted. And the way I'm perceived in public is it would look like somebody has a severe knee injury or severe ankle injury. And I get that quite a bit where it's like, Oh, you're a veteran, like did you get blown up or something?
00:45:56:15 - 00:46:28:19
Speaker 2
And I always feel like, Oh shit, I wish I did but yeah, it's, it's very it's very confusing and it's very hard for this human brain to process that an individual was as severely injured as I was paralyzed, as paralyzed as I was and as close to death with stroke and brain lack of brain function as I was and being able to be walking.
00:46:28:19 - 00:46:55:07
Speaker 2
And when you talk to a surgeon or a nurse and has a general understanding of these things, every single one of them goes, you should be dead. You should not be here. I don't know how you're doing. What you're doing. And so it's like there's people that walk post incomplete spinal cord injury, like whether it's paraplegic, which paraplegic is basically abs down depending on where you break in your back.
00:46:56:06 - 00:47:23:14
Speaker 2
But with quadriplegia being so high up in the cervical colon, the likelihood of the recovery that I've had is like .00 1%. It's like it's not possible. It's not the fringes. Yeah, it's not the fringes. So that's kind of the breakdown of like what incomplete quadriplegia is and kind of looks like. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. No, thanks for clarifying that.
00:47:23:14 - 00:47:49:07
Speaker 2
Just for anybody who doesn't understand the limitations of the difference of that. Yeah. So so you know, kind of you're talk about that you're getting through your rehab process and we were talking about you there last piece. Yeah. Yeah. So parallel speaking about, as I was saying, like there was originally peak moments it became this thing where I started documenting my journey to Whitney.
00:47:50:04 - 00:48:13:03
Speaker 2
I get a call from my buddy Chase. Lincoln Chase was a pledge actually of mine in college. So I used to be about £200 and just jacked the fucking tits ex powerlifting. Right, which is a really large human and scary human. Right. And I was also like pledge coordinator and my strap for like two years before I dropped.
00:48:13:03 - 00:48:30:15
Speaker 2
So I was like, This is fucking dumb, but Chase was one of my pledges, and I watched him go from shooting like frat parties and like sorority portraits and that sort of thing to going and shooting like these big brands. So in 20, 20 I kind of been posting on Instagram. I was like, Hey, like, I'm going to go do Mount Whitney.
00:48:30:15 - 00:48:52:19
Speaker 2
Like, I don't care if I get sponsored, I'm just going to go do this because I want to do it and I think I can. And so he calls me and he goes, Hey, like, I'm working for this watch company called Ventura. I am one of their new photographers. They're doing this contest called Chase Your Legacy. And if you win, we'll give you $5,000 and we'll make a film out of the whole thing.
00:48:53:19 - 00:49:15:03
Speaker 2
And that's how like the film came to be. So then fast forward. I won. I blew everyone out of the water with my submission. And in chair, I was just like over the moon, like this is like one of those very rare stories that we're just lucky to happen upon. And so we we're in San Diego, and we're doing like a brainstorming session.
00:49:15:03 - 00:49:39:02
Speaker 2
And Sam Newton, who big YouTuber, big photographer, is now a teen and ambassador, like, has seen his career just skyrocketed and probably the past three years was going to be the creative director on the parallel or peak moments project at the time. And so we're doing a brain session brainstorm session. We're like, Pete, Moments just doesn't have the same.
00:49:40:00 - 00:50:01:01
Speaker 2
Like, there's no like it's like we get it like everyone wants to have a peak moment on top of a large mountain or on top of a climber. But it's like it doesn't really describe where you've been and what you've done. And they've gone through and so in that session, like Sam goes, we need to change the entire trajectory of this piece.
00:50:01:01 - 00:50:29:11
Speaker 2
Otherwise it's going to fail. And he just he just sat there for a second in the man's branding genius and like, marketing just gets paralyzed, peaks, and everyone in the room just goes Oh, fuck, that's it. That's the film. Then that's like, that's literally what we're going to call everything. And I went from having my Instagram name being like, I was like, Jackson is here to, like, switch over to paralyzed peaks.
00:50:29:11 - 00:50:30:10
Speaker 2
And that's when it was born.
00:50:32:16 - 00:50:53:06
Speaker 1
So now it was was the parallels to peaks and everything. It seems like it was centralized around around this objective of Mount Whitney. Is that correct? It was did you guys have any further vision for for where this might go or what might become of it? Or was it singly focused on this objective at the moment?
00:50:53:14 - 00:51:17:10
Speaker 2
In that current moment when we came to that conclusion of what we should call this was on that singular objective. Now we sat on it and we two weeks later, I really thought about it and I was like, this could be bigger than just like a a singular there's something else here. And it's I've just been letting it organically grow like it's a little just like infinite.
00:51:17:10 - 00:51:54:09
Speaker 2
Right now, we have like, it's like one years old. Two years old, right? And it's the vision I see for it is how I saw it discuss this before is like it could be a nonprofit right? Working with spinal cord injury individuals and rehab. It's also a speaking topic. And like taking that fear, like paralysis and the fear that comes with it that every individual goes through in terms of like before you go through some big transformation, right?
00:51:54:13 - 00:52:22:13
Speaker 2
You're on this precipice of like you're terrified. You don't know if you should start this business and you don't even know if you should start this podcast. Yeah, right. But then you just you get over that like paralysis. Now is that fear and whatnot. And you just had horrible dove head first find headfirst into it. Right. And that's where like the speaking side of things comes in.
00:52:22:13 - 00:52:51:13
Speaker 2
And so I've done probably seven professional speeches now, and I'm hoping my next one is worth a couple of friends. We'll see I've been letting it organically happen. And then I think nonprofit is speaking. The third one is, you know, the personal brand and leveraging that which climbing brands and outdoors brands be like, hey, like this idea. This is a story.
00:52:52:00 - 00:53:18:07
Speaker 2
Adaptive athletes are here right? We're here, we're all doing gnarly. Aw, shit. Then said Boone on 515 deal or whatever, right? Like and we're doing it with a gnarly disability where we should be God. Like no discredit for him. Right? But yeah, we're here. Yeah we do acknowledge. Sure. And like this should be acknowledge this would be appreciated because one in four Americans are disabled.
00:53:19:07 - 00:53:42:14
Speaker 2
That's a large part of the population. So that that inclusion piece and that visibility piece, it's apolitical, right? So when we think about it from a marketing dollars, the second we think about it from a business perspective for better or for worse, it is apolitical, which is you're disabled, doesn't matter what color, gender or whatever. It's just I have I am an amputee.
00:53:42:14 - 00:54:14:00
Speaker 2
I have I have complete quadriplegia. I'm an electric wheelchair. I have fibromyalgia, like all these different disabilities and you know, we're here, we're out, we're out in the outdoors. We're out climbing. We're very few of us. They are like we're pushing the boundaries where we can. And it's it's worthy of notice. It's worthy and quite frankly and there needs to be more of a narrative around it.
00:54:15:03 - 00:54:36:10
Speaker 1
And I'd like to rewind a little bit. I think that, you know, we said this at the beginning of the podcast. You you were a climber before this incident. You said you had visions for the tops of peaks. But, you know, after we've talked a little bit, you you have gotten into what we call technical climbing and technical lead trap climbing.
00:54:36:19 - 00:54:59:02
Speaker 1
And I think that's really what set you apart from from the rest of the people in your peer group. Can you kind of run us through and run the audience through a little bit of of why climbing is appealing to you, especially on the technical side of it rather than, you know, hiking up a mountain, but actually roping up and taking the sharp end and assuming that risk, even with the kind of risk that you're already running.
00:54:59:13 - 00:55:11:11
Speaker 1
And you said that while we were talking, you said that someone from RIM in kind of an outreach group had reached out to you yeah. Like, I guess what, I'm jumping ahead of myself here. Let's just answer the first question.
00:55:11:17 - 00:55:25:10
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. So hiking for me is like we got the web project done. It was a great it's it's done. Like, I'm not actually a huge fan of hiking. Like we say, we say hiking is an approach without a crag and that equals depression. Yeah.
00:55:26:11 - 00:55:27:23
Speaker 1
Hiking is a bridge to nowhere.
00:55:28:00 - 00:55:51:01
Speaker 2
Yeah. Right. So I never climbed before. I just had it was on my radar. I was like, I want to climb but I enjoy surfing a tree that inspires free spirit. And I literally no time left after I did all these other. So what happened was I put a post out in 2019 going, I am an athlete. I'm worthy of doing sports still.
00:55:51:09 - 00:56:13:13
Speaker 2
Right? But I have no idea what to do. Who can help me and all these people chimed in. And this one woman named Jillian Yachts go out of my room in San Diego, dams me goes, Hey, I think you're a great candidate for Rock climbing, adaptive climbing. I go, OK, like we're going to give this, you know, like I'll drive down there and we'll try this out.
00:56:13:13 - 00:56:32:09
Speaker 2
And so I hop on like a five, four or five, five, like jog hall. I get halfway up and slay on it for over an hour. And I just as a kind of set in the beginning of the podcast, it's like there's two types of people where they try something like, OK, I want to keep doing this even though I stop or there's not a person who knows I suck at it.
00:56:32:10 - 00:56:53:12
Speaker 2
I don't want to do this. So classically I go, I suck at this, but I think there's something here in my hands are bleeding everywhere and everything hurts and I'm not OK, but I'm going to go limp out of this gym and try again. And like since I became obsessed and that has now resulted in. Yeah, taking the sharp.
00:56:53:15 - 00:57:24:13
Speaker 2
I started reading sport reading in January and then in January, 20, 20, January, 20, 20, one, February 22 ish in the gym and now we're doing track. I'm a budding track climber. I have like one successful lead under my belt in several failed leads. Right. But there is no one doing what I'm doing on the sharp end with my discipline.
00:57:25:01 - 00:57:50:12
Speaker 2
I'm the, I am one of one male and there is one other female, but she does not climb trapped and her injuries see seven so she actually stronger in her upper body but she has no social media presence so I'm really the only one and there is only one only visual with quadriplegia who's doing like big not geeks.
00:57:50:12 - 00:58:14:14
Speaker 2
His name's Jackson. I have the utmost respect for the guy and I chat on a semi-regular basis good humane is really pushing the envelope in mountaineering and optimism. But he's not on the sharpen. I'm the only one on the sharp end, so I that's become a thing where like I spent two seasons in the Valley last year and in April and October, spring and fall.
00:58:15:05 - 00:58:39:20
Speaker 2
And every single time I go, I level up and I'm actually going to Yosemite tomorrow and I'm hoping to put up timeline, which is like a five, seven hand track. And I'm seeing aircraft right in the baseball cap. I'm hoping I have to a granny track, which is next to Yosemite Falls. That's just underwater currently. That was an unfinished project from October.
00:58:40:09 - 00:59:21:06
Speaker 2
I have Ranger Track Fieri, which is right around the corner from Granny Craft and then I'm hoping to do after six or after seven. They're basically the same, just two different starts on multiple pitches hopefully in the next week or so. If not, we'll do it in the fall. And then the biggest goal and I think from a personal branding perspective and where I see paralyzed is going on the technical side is we're going to put up one lurking fear on our cat on the far left and I'll tap with my friend Brett Hazel Ashen Gravity Labs is YouTube channels phenomenal.
00:59:21:14 - 00:59:49:19
Speaker 2
I just found Gravity Labs. They are so good. I love you know, they're so good. They're both so funny too. Like I've just been crashing the videos. Yeah. Yeah. Jake and Brett Brantley, a good dear friend of mine, and I'm dear friends with his girlfriend as well. I won, like, just solid humans to gnarliest climbers and and they do it in such, like, a happy go lucky way, the like.
00:59:49:23 - 01:00:15:16
Speaker 2
Totally. It's I've been human. I've just been bouncing ideas off of each other. So him and I are hoping to put up last year, potentially this year. And then the goal would then to go up the nose. So to fill in a bit of history there, climbing is big on history. The only individual who has a spinal cord injury who is successfully delta is Mark Wellman.
01:00:16:06 - 01:01:03:04
Speaker 2
He's a paraplegic. You basically judge the entirety of all tap 5000. Yeah. On a on a follow the second individual who attempted rant about who is somebody I would consider a friend and somebody who I converse with on a semi-regular basis is also paraplegic. He is the pioneer, I would say for adaptive aid lead and has multiple 53 to 514 aid leads in Joshua Tree the only person who has them itch and the idea and so he attempted to do the nose last October when we actually both in the valley and unfortunately had grand mal seizures and had to bail so it's yet to be done.
01:01:04:16 - 01:01:28:17
Speaker 2
If Rand beats me to it I'll drop him. I you know I'm in full support and he has more experience than I but I would like to claim that title of having the first adaptive aid spinal cord injury lead on account top to bottom on multiple pitches. So I think it's possible. I don't think I know it's possible.
01:01:28:17 - 01:01:56:01
Speaker 2
It's literally it's a matter of building the skill set, the risk tolerance and putting the time and I think any great climber knows you have spent time in Yosemite. You just have to grind and you have time. And like I determined at the end of fall season last year, I was like, this is going to be my life for the next however many years.
01:01:56:10 - 01:02:21:10
Speaker 2
I'm just like spring, fall, spring, fall, spring, fall. And I just made that decision. And thankfully, I have a collective of friends and acquaintances that also made that decision. So that's where I see Paradise to be going as a whole. Is that really technical aid wall climbing? Yeah. Wow. So, so fascinating. And just really, really, really cool project.
01:02:21:10 - 01:02:49:07
Speaker 2
And I've just time back out to you like a few things. Like one the when you were mentioning earlier that like 25% of the population is disabled in the US and it was almost like a case like take the like the narrative of like like like extending and helping someone who's disabled or something out of the equation like purely from like a capitalistic point of view like there's just a whole market for this, you know what I mean?
01:02:49:07 - 01:03:06:23
Speaker 2
That doesn't seem to be like, like, I didn't know any of the names that you've been talking about or anything. Right. Rather just purely from that standpoint, seems like a really missed opportunity right. Is like there like I think what you said early was like like God, was it disabled people have arrived, like for climbing, you know what I mean?
01:03:06:23 - 01:03:10:15
Speaker 2
Like, yeah, and Rand's been really pushing that narrative.
01:03:12:17 - 01:03:35:08
Speaker 2
Yeah. But the thing is, there's a massive push for inclusivity in climbing yeah. We can all admit that we're three white guys on a podcast, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that has to be said. Yeah. And so the diversity, like seeing people of color coming into community and be accepted and like pushed in the general greater narrative by all means.
01:03:35:08 - 01:03:58:07
Speaker 2
I think just being on the force for being the queer community, being pushed and being accepting and really fucking love it, it's not. The issue is that I've seen those other communities and it's not the one on one against the other, but those communities are questioned for the space they occupy, not the skills they possess, the disabled community.
01:03:58:14 - 01:04:24:17
Speaker 2
This question from space to occupy and the skills they possess, right? Because every disability is completely different. My disability on you looks way different. Your outcome is way that we all know, right? So the biggest thing for me is I've been working with guy like the first half of this year. Like I'm like I want an infinity course for disabled climbers to seek, you know, single pitch instructor certification.
01:04:25:12 - 01:04:58:04
Speaker 2
And there's already amputees had done that. Santi over in Utah, he's already in a SDI sort of a guide. There's like one or two other that can't in my off the top of my head, there are disabled guides. Right. But that end, it's not widely seen. It's not there's not a curriculum built around it. And so my goal from a non professional like passion, which is passion project perspective, is I don't want to spend five, ten.
01:04:58:17 - 01:05:26:04
Speaker 2
I'm happy being a 575859 climber for the rest of my life, whether that's a French freeing or freeing in general. But if I as a disabled individual, I'm able to go out with other disabled individuals like Shaco, hey, this is possible for you to let me be the beacon of light for you. So then you can pursue it and then open up that become a beacon of light yourself to other disabled individuals.
01:05:26:04 - 01:05:35:09
Speaker 2
I think that's where legacy comes in and that's where uplifting everyone comes in. And that's what I'm really passionate about right now.
01:05:36:12 - 01:06:00:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. So so I think this is this is really kind of hitting the nail on the head of kind of where I wanted to ask this question is so, so paralyzed. The piece is definitely focused around your own personal journey and, and your, your, your aspirations in terms of climbing. And I like your, your vision in terms of how that is going to actually motivate and inspire people in your community to do something similar.
01:06:00:22 - 01:06:20:05
Speaker 1
You kind of touched on it a little bit, but how do you see this particular organization Paralyzed Peaks and the message in the vision you're creating through the actions and the documentation of the story that you're you're creating like what is this person for Mesa Rim reached out to you? And that's the reason why you're climbing right now.
01:06:20:05 - 01:06:44:16
Speaker 1
It's because this person reached out to you. Like, do you see an easier pathway, an easier channel for people like yourself to find climbing? Like, is it needed to be promoted in gyms? Is it need to be a social change? Like where do you see this kind of like inclusivity being being promoted and, and easier for people like you to find without having to be you know, you you seemed like you searched for it.
01:06:44:16 - 01:06:59:08
Speaker 1
So avid agenda. Admittedly, it's not weird. Whatever. Yeah. Like people who might not be searching for it as much as you, how are they going to be able to stumble upon this and how is this able to be presented to your to your community in a better way?
01:06:59:17 - 01:07:51:21
Speaker 2
Right. So I'll say this I am not a pioneer in the broader sense of adaptive climbing. The pioneers in adaptive climbing are organizations like Paradox Sports, right? It's pioneers like no back amputee first 512 climber real rock like credit goes to paradox timo to like I'm just one little piece of the puzzle and I don't want to take shine away from those pioneers and like people have really pushed adaptive climbing as a whole I see paralyzed the piece as another puzzle piece that in that I think paradox sports is big on pushing adaptive climbing in gyms across the US as Jillian Bosco who was the reason I got into climb was and is part of
01:07:51:21 - 01:08:31:19
Speaker 2
paradox sports and she brings people in like me to go go climb so there are avenues there where I see paralyzed peaks as of right now is really pushing the narrative around the SBI certification and getting somebody like me or somebody like Shane Farber, who's a paraplegic, potentially Josh around who's been on the podcast. Right to be guides and pioneers in bringing other paralyzed athletes or disabled athletes out to the crag and being like, Here's how you do it in the adaptive way, right?
01:08:32:03 - 01:09:12:06
Speaker 2
Like when I climb it. So depending upon where it's right, like my hand function, my arm function, my leg function, my hip, what's the function how do I pioneer, how do I pioneer that and adapt it to work in my favor? So if that means free climbing on my left side because that's the more functional side and then French freeing or aiding on my right side, if I can translate that to another paralyzed individual or somebody with physical deficiencies to get them to be like, Oh, I can lead time, I can safely do this as my mission currently and that's where I keep going.
01:09:13:14 - 01:09:38:12
Speaker 2
I we're, we're right at the precipice, but I feel like we did the winning project. Like I said, it's done we proved that could happen. Now it's back it up. We have we have a main store here now. We need chapters. And so currently I'm slowly adding to those chapters and then eventually we'll have a book. And that book is This is what paralyzed the piece is done for the adaptive community.
01:09:39:17 - 01:09:46:00
Speaker 2
On top and building on the shoulders of those pioneers like ran out. It's the paradox sports, the mode that those types.
01:09:46:15 - 01:09:55:10
Speaker 1
Do you see parallels to be potentially opening up a foundation kind of like what our tunnel did and channeling funds like that to these organizations that you spoke.
01:09:55:10 - 01:10:11:20
Speaker 2
About yeah. I don't have a clear vision on it, though. Candidly, I wish I did, but like I said, it's an it's open season. It's like second or third year, and I I'm a big proponent of not forcing things escalate.
01:10:11:20 - 01:10:28:20
Speaker 1
I'm just kind of thinking outside the box here and seeing where your head's out. But yeah, it'll all is super inspiring and, and really, really, really, really cool. I think you have such a unique story and such a unique offering to the community. I'm super excited to see where it goes.
01:10:29:16 - 01:10:48:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think on my own, like, this is really not been something on my radar of like adaptive sports, especially climbing and stuff. So I just think that it's such a, it's such a cool idea and so like, like a total no brainer, you know? And I wish I'd known more of this. But, you know, you're obviously you're pushing the good word here.
01:10:48:08 - 01:11:06:09
Speaker 2
So I think that's really, really cool and kind of also as well, like I think, you know, we obviously focus on is this society. You know, you were talking about, you know, sending this DNA project or whatever. 550. Right. But you know, like how hard something is is.
01:11:06:09 - 01:11:07:06
Speaker 1
Totally.
01:11:07:22 - 01:11:31:00
Speaker 2
Relative and subjective to the individual. Right? So somebody who has your limitations, like, you know, for all we know, climbing, I don't want to put words in your mouth or, you know, I'm never aligned with you like climbing 510 might be as hard like you know, climbing 510 might be as part of a task as you know him sending, you know, his 515 D project, if that makes sense.
01:11:31:00 - 01:11:47:16
Speaker 2
Right. So that's all kind of just it's all just like perspective and relative to like the individual's limitations and stuff. So I think that's also a really, really interesting thing, just a mindset to share, you know, like how to look at that and like what that person is overcoming to like go do that. It's really fascinating to me.
01:11:48:15 - 01:12:12:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, it's it's tough, right? Because I also I battle able bodied voices. Like there's a dichotomy of voices in my head. There's the able bodied side and there's the disabled side. The able bodied side logically knows that I had this conversation with Brant Gravity Labs, like two nights ago. I was like, Dude, if I was able bodied, you and I would be equals and we'd be climbing people together.
01:12:13:00 - 01:12:31:03
Speaker 2
I was like, I have the same obsessiveness. Knowing myself in jujitsu and surfing that you do have, you have about climbing and we would be partners he's like, Oh, I see that. You're like, I totally understand. And that's the able body side. So there's that. There's an ego component. I mean, it has to be an ego death on the disabled side, right?
01:12:31:10 - 01:12:53:11
Speaker 2
Where I have to limit myself. Like when I watch brand stuff, I'm like, I'm never going to climb Romulan, Romulan, Warbird I'm just not. It's just never going to happen. So I have to determine, OK, what's my Romulan warbird, what's my free rider? And assessing, OK, we're going to push the envelope, but it's just going to look different.
01:12:53:20 - 01:13:07:01
Speaker 2
And that's also very tough pill to swallow because if you look at me and you sat down at a bar you had no idea that I had the strength of a nine year old with no climbing experience so.
01:13:08:07 - 01:13:31:20
Speaker 1
I think that this this topic is super cool. I think that James really put this into light. Know, he he recently had a pretty traumatic injury, felt 80 feet. And we just launched this episode two weeks ago. And, you know, he he was climbing A-plus, super hard roots and this injury is pretty catastrophic for him. And there's a chance that he might not be able to send the same grades that he was before.
01:13:32:05 - 01:13:55:02
Speaker 1
But in his eyes, that's not what climbing is about. I think he put a really, really cool perspective on chasing grades. And he's like, grades is just the outcome of our effort and our love for climbing. And it's different for everybody. And he says now, like, if I'm not able to climb A-plus anymore, that's OK because I'm still going to be able to try as hard as I was before.
01:13:55:12 - 01:14:15:15
Speaker 1
It's just different now. And so we're still able to to identify and pick out this this effort and this love for climbing that we have based on just the level of difficulty and what we get out of climbing in general. It's not about the grades. It's about the personal struggle and it's about the experience that we get out of climbing.
01:14:16:01 - 01:14:34:23
Speaker 1
And this kind of brings me to my question, like what what does climbing offer you? It's like, why? Why is climbing such a draw to you? And I specifically mean more technical climbing and especially being on the sharp end and exposing yourself to risk. Like what? What about is it what about that do you do you love?
01:14:35:21 - 01:14:59:03
Speaker 2
I love that I constantly pursue on world and I constantly surprise myself. Right? I spent five, ten in the gym. Granted, grades are, you know, so subjective, right? But I spend 520 in the gym on lead. I was like, wow, I didn't think I would ever said that. I did as like same thing. I led the final pitch on Swanson ABS.
01:14:59:03 - 01:15:22:08
Speaker 2
I just ran track and I was like, wow, I never thought I would lead a trade route. Right. I trained weird. So I mean, like, prior to that was like, I thought I'd never seen a trade, right? And I was on and on sports I was like after I started reading sport outdoors and indoors and I was like, Oh, I'll never know how to, like, clean and master the basics of sport, like rappelling and all that sort of thing.
01:15:22:08 - 01:15:37:21
Speaker 2
I'm like, here we are. Like, I have a basic foundational understanding of it. So it's the pushing the envelope on the technical side and surprised myself constantly where I'm like, on my day, where I'm like, I didn't think I could do that. Like, I was in Holcomb Valley a month ago with a group of people I'd never climb with.
01:15:38:09 - 01:15:57:14
Speaker 2
I fixed all the roofs on grades between five, four to five, eight. I didn't finish the 58, but everything below that from five, seven down, I did it and I fixed the ropes and I was like, I'm a disabled individual. Setting ropes for able bodied individuals on routes that I never thought I would set the ropes on. Right?
01:15:57:18 - 01:16:22:06
Speaker 2
Like constantly surprising myself. And that was like that was a big mindset shift of like, OK, I have the skills now. Like, I have a, I have a basic understanding of these things. I can always be better. Don't and don't get me wrong, but like to get it like I can do these things. And at that day, specifically in Holcomb Valley, I said by Cracky I had one take and bike rack is like an ultra classic out there.
01:16:22:16 - 01:16:44:15
Speaker 2
And I was like, I can't believe I just did that. Like Super expounds. I was like, Wow, I have a foundational understanding of what sustain 57 means, which means I know I can climb a team in 58. Right? So I wasn't surprising myself. On the technical side, it's like my favorite part is just one thing. I'm hitting the limit.
01:16:44:15 - 01:17:22:02
Speaker 2
I'm like, Oh, I just hit another a new level. On the broader sense climbing. For me, this is about community. I love the community. Like I have so many friends I met you, Max. Now I've met Kyle finally in person. I met Brant, I met Britney, I met Camp out in Moab. Like all these like different climbers and people and I've had conversations and Instagram with Conrad and just all these amazing people that you never think you would ever converse with.
01:17:22:13 - 01:17:50:17
Speaker 2
I'm like, Oh, I've read conversation here and there. I made a connection and made relationships. And the community aspect is so important because with jujitsu just as a social niche community, introducing everyone kind of knows each other. Somehow, someway, whether it's through media or through the grapevine. One degree separation. So when I lost jujitsu, it was really about before the technical piece came in.
01:17:50:17 - 01:18:11:07
Speaker 2
It's really about finding community and that's what client climbing has replaced jujitsu in the community component while also taking the technical component and as well. Right. It's just this very technical climbing is very technical, too. If you fuck up in jujitsu, you get hurt. If you don't tap, right? If you fuck up in climbing, you're breaking you who fortunately for this guy.
01:18:12:00 - 01:18:37:03
Speaker 2
So like the risk, inherent risk that we discussed is still there. And I was just looking for any different help, but I could do physically still. I can't do jujitsu. I can't serve in the traditional sense ever again. I just don't have the strength. I don't have the explosiveness. So I needed climbing immunity for keys first and now the pieces come out.
01:18:37:18 - 01:19:01:09
Speaker 2
I think that's like the most beautiful thing in the world that I was able to take. Want go from one community and being like semi well-connected to going to another community and like well connected and being able to have these conversations we're having right now yeah. Well, I mean, I think that's that's a pretty awesome place to end it.
01:19:01:09 - 01:19:03:00
Speaker 2
If you guys are good. Do you have anything else.
01:19:10:13 - 01:19:44:17
Speaker 1
I mean, I think we were kissing a little bit on, on the risk topic. You know, we can cut this out if we don't really fit into anything, but I'm curious on your I guess let me preface this a little bit. So in this podcast, we've talked a lot about risk and how it's kind of built inherently into the sport and you know, we see a lot of certain, you know, media videos like free solo or risk is glorified how much do you feel risk really plays a role in the sport?
01:19:45:22 - 01:19:49:19
Speaker 1
And do you feel like the sport would be the same without it?
01:19:51:05 - 01:20:20:14
Speaker 2
I don't think it would be the same without it. The way I look at risk in my personal day to day climbing journey, my margin of error compared to like say you matter, you kind of like is exponentially smaller so I have to be that much more calculated. When I think about reading it, I have to think about, OK, if I fall here what's the outcome of that fall six feet below?
01:20:20:20 - 01:20:54:04
Speaker 2
Whereas when you're out on a sport like, OK, you take a fall and maybe you dig your shot. For me, it's like a totally area. You if you get you bounce. I said, No, I won't move. I will. Something like, right. So I am actively hyper hyper calculating down to the. Mm. My risk tolerance so like when I got my first travel in last October, I had already run that two times prior.
01:20:54:04 - 01:21:22:17
Speaker 2
I knew what to expect. Right? And I already had a general understanding of where to place my gear and where to slip in and where my red spots were. Right. So climbing is inherently risky to that ends one person's risk like high risk is another person's normal standard and we get to dictate what that standard is. So it ends go broader.
01:21:23:09 - 01:21:26:20
Speaker 2
One person's extreme is another person's normal.
01:21:27:02 - 01:21:32:21
Speaker 1
Totally nice. Well, Jack, anything else that you feel like we missed or anything else you'd like to add?
01:21:34:14 - 01:22:00:05
Speaker 2
I'm going to send alert and fear every go that's going to happen. And then I'm going to send, you know, at some point in some form. And I would like to get the second first. A paralyzed aid is sent on one of those, if not those on lead at least for a few pictures to clean it and that's my goal.
01:22:00:18 - 01:22:20:12
Speaker 2
I think that's the next frontier is big wall. And I that's what I intend to do. And we'll see how it plays out and what that looks like in six months, in a year or two years down the line. But I know it's possible. And that is the future. And I'm hell bent on making it happen and doing once again what somebody has never done before.
01:22:20:19 - 01:22:45:07
Speaker 2
So as my that's my ending. I think that's my biggest my biggest goals beyond single pitch drought and sports stuff. So yeah, hell yeah. I mean, that's awesome for anybody listening, like how can they, you know, how can they tune into your story? Where can they go to be a part of this? And then watch your, your, your success in the future.
01:22:47:05 - 01:23:11:12
Speaker 2
Paralyzed peaks on all channels. So Paralyzed be on Instagram, paralyzed with beats on LinkedIn because I'm also pretty decent at my profession. So I use LinkedIn a lot. Paralyzed Speed WSJ.com, my website kind of just outlining my story and also my photography work and some accomplishments and podcast and then yeah, that's it. Yeah. Those three channels.
01:23:11:15 - 01:23:35:11
Speaker 1
We'll put all the links in. The descriptions will be easy to find. Definitely recommend watching his video on his ascent of Whitney. We didn't really cover the details of that ascent just because it's been covered so much so far, but that video is super inspiring and really does a great job in terms of Sue Tiger and covering the story of of everything leading up in terms of the details of your accident and then for your injury, what would you call it?
01:23:36:03 - 01:23:37:11
Speaker 2
Of, of. Yeah.
01:23:37:21 - 01:23:43:13
Speaker 1
It's and the just the the details of that. That isn't how many how many days is it up with me?
01:23:44:03 - 01:24:01:16
Speaker 2
It was four and a half days total. 40 miles eight or 9000 feet over I think via the James summited August 7th 2021 so yeah it was never done before.
01:24:02:10 - 01:24:03:08
Speaker 1
And I'm first of many.
01:24:03:14 - 01:24:21:17
Speaker 2
First of many yeah awesome. It's been an absolute pleasure talking with you and you know getting introduced to your story and stuff and you know I look forward to seeing more from you the future and you know who knows maybe one day in the future if I made my way down to the US it could be pretty rad to share with you on that.
01:24:22:12 - 01:24:42:20
Speaker 2
Sit down. And I assume guys like B has been on my list for even prior to my injury. I was big, I wanted to surf and DC and go find some workers and shit and now it's like, now I'm going to Squamish. Yeah, come over any time. Give me a ring I really mean it. I'd love to hang out to do anything, you know, just let me know for sure.
01:24:42:20 - 01:24:51:02
Speaker 2
I'm not stoked. I'm really starving. You do this, like, connect everyone here and thanks for the opportunity. US? Yeah.